[pct-l] Using the Ursack without the aluminum

[David Ellzey]

The problem is that most people are only concerned about losing their food supply, whereas the park service is attempting to look out for the health and welfare of visitors and the bears themselves. 

So even though a bear may not be able to really get to your food supply in an Ursack w/ liner they have been able to crush the contents enough to cause some leaking. So although most people would only see this as an inconvenience to the hiker, the park service counts it as a bear receiving positive reinforcement to pursue human food.

Think of your food as heroin and the bears as potential junkies that once they get a little taste will take bigger and bigger risks to satisfy their jones.

BigToe


-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Matt Thyer
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:10 AM
To: 'Scott Bryce'; 'PCT MailingList'
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Using the Ursack without the aluminum

Thanks everyone,

Understand that Ursack isn't approved throughout the Sierra and everyone can
read more about it at these locations:

(http://www.ursack.com/ursack-update.htm) 
(http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bearcans.htm) 

January 13, 2010

"It appears that Ursack will be allowed almost everywhere in the Sierra this
year except Yosemite National Park and three areas (Rae Lakes, Dusy Basin,
Rock Creek) of SEKI.  We calculate that Ursack may be used on more than 98%
of the Pacific Crest Trail.  SIBBG, the Sierra Agency Black Bear Group, no
longer exists.  There are no standardized bear canister tests--each
Superintendent of Forest Service Manager makes the decision for his or her
own area.  While Ursack will likely submit the S29 AllWhite Hybrid for
consideration by Yosemite and SEKI, there can be no assurance of approval
given those parks lack of testing criteria and/or their historical antipathy
toward Ursack."

Since I'm not actually planning on trekking in the Sierra this year I'm less
concerned about what FS and NPS district managers several states away might
think about it.

I'm more interested in understanding if anyone has experience using the
ursack in the fashion I've mentioned.  Kevlar is a lot harder to rip or tear
than most ballistic plastics (think Bear Vault) and the fibers are designed
to separate around, in this case, teeth, and then heal.  That aluminum isn't
going to stop a bear who's gotten ahold of the sac any better than plastics
and food will probably be crushed anyway, but if someone has seen this or
used the sac in this way I'd appreciate their feedback.

On another note, I'm looking at pile of email from people saying that Ursack
is no longer compliant with regulations regarding bear protection yet cannot
find (even on the NPS site) any reference to those regulations.   Rules in
this case are appearing to me very arbitrary and the standard for tested
compliance is illusory as best as I can tell.  Anyone know where this
information can be found? 

Thanks,

Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Scott Bryce
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 10:20 AM
To: PCT MailingList
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Using the Ursack without the aluminum

The Ursack is not approved for use in the Sierra. You will need to carry an
approved bear canister on that portion of the trail. That being the case,
you can use the Ursack any way you want to on other parts of the trail.

The problem with the Ursack without the aluminum sleeve is that a bear can
easily grab the bag in its teeth. If it works on it long enough, it can
eventually tear the bag.

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