[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 17, Issue 89
Georgi Heitman
bobbnweav at gmail.com
Sat May 23 22:58:50 CDT 2009
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 2:34 PM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Wolves in the Sierra? (RJ Lewis)
> 2. Re: Cottonwood Creek Bridge "Faucet is now working"
> (Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com)
> 3. tarp camping... (Sean McNeal)
> 4. Re: anger vs discussion (kcristler)
> 5. Re: Fragmenting the PCT information sources (Bill)
> 6. Re: tarp camping... (Marge)
> 7. Re: Rather funny.. :) (kcristler)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 13:27:20 -0700
> From: RJ Lewis <karmagurl at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wolves in the Sierra?
> To: Georgi Heitman <bobbnweav at gmail.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <4A185C28.1080103 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> I had the great fortune of visiting a wolf preserve in New Mexico last
> weekend and learned some interesting information. Of the few wolves that
> were released in Yellowstone Park, there are now over 1500 wolves
> populating a vast majority of 5 states now, including Idaho, Montana,
> Wyoming, the Dakotas, etc.... That within a decade of their release.
> Amazing indeed! To say that they haven't made their way into the Sierras
> or Cascades would be guessing wrong I believe.
>
> That would be like saying North Dakota is flat.. LOL.....
>
>
> And for those listing National Scenic Trails...you forgot one......the
> North Country National Scenic Trail....the one that runs from North
> Dakota at Lake Sakakawea to New York. It's still not complete- there is
> alot of road walks yet, but it does exist. It's 4000 miles long, for
> those who need a new challenge. =)
>
>
> And I got to meet up with a bunch of thru hikers last weekend as they
> made their way up the CDT!!! They spent a day or 2 in Grants, NM, where
> my husband works at the moment, and were staying in the same motel he
> was! What a great experience!
>
> Have a great Memorial Day weekend here in the US and a great weekend
> otherwise for those outside the US.
>
> SoulSista
>
>
> Georgi Heitman wrote:
> > It would be lovely to hear that howl again, and I like to think that if I
> > trekked into the 1000 Lakes Wilderness, I might. That dun-colored critter
> > was definitely headed that direction, Badger Mt. being to the south of
> us,
> > and assuming it was doing the howling that closed the dogs and coyotes
> > down. But from mid June to October these days, or more specifically,
> > nights, we have between two or three to as many as 30+ hiker-type folks
> > sitting on our deck or around one of our fire circles, and the noise
> level
> > doesn't make for hearing something as low and deep as that howl. Nor do
> the
> > coyotes or dogs suddenly go quiet. In fact, as the various breeds of
> those
> > neighbor's animals has changed, their yappy voices have only gotten
> higher
> > pitched, a good wolf howl is just what's needed to enable our hikers,
> > camping just across the creek from their pen, to get a good night's
> sleep.
> >
> > On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:52 AM, Josh <559josh at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Great & exciting story! I just wish more of the dates U mentioned were
> >> more
> >> recent. :( But if there were a few around 12yrs ago, there should be a
> >> significant population by now. YAY!
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> >> On Behalf Of Georgi Heitman
> >> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:07 PM
> >> To: christopher.kopp at gmail.com; pct-l at backcountry.net
> >> Subject: [pct-l] Wolves in the Sierra?
> >>
> >> I don't know...
> >> Wolves in the southern Cascades? I think yes...at least there were in
> 1993
> >> or 4, because FireWalker and I saw an article(very small, maybe two
> lines
> >> total, down at the bottom of a page) in our weekly Inter Mt. News
> stating
> >> that seven mated pair had be released on and/or around Badger
> Mt....think
> >> Badger Flats at the northern edge of Lassen Natl Pk. here, folks.
> >> A year or two later a neighbor told us that he'd read that three more
> pair
> >> had also been released in the same area.
> >> Around that time, FireWalker and I saw a very large, dun-colored critter
> >> grazing (or something) in the field next to the driveway coming into the
> >> Hideaway (our home).
> >> We stopped in the driveway, debated what it might be, it was too early
> in
> >> the spring to be a returning deer, too big to be one of our local
> coyotes
> >> or
> >> a neighbors dog but with it's head down, it was impossible to tell, so I
> >> opened my car door and slammed it hard. Its head flew up... it was the
> >> biggest canine either of us had ever seen, please note, I didn't say
> 'dog'.
> >> It took off, didn't run like a coyote, with front legs that are/seem
> >> shorter
> >> than it's hind ones...it ran more dog-like, but it wasn't any of our
> >> neighbors dogs.
> >> Later, during the summer, as I was coming home after dark on a bright
> >> moon-lit night, as I started to slow down to enter our driveway, I
> glanced
> >> in my rear-view mirror in time to see a very large canine, very light
> >> colored in the moon light, run across the road behind me. I got
> >> goose-bumps, and it takes a lot for that to happen to me, but I think I
> >> knew what I saw was out of the ordinary.
> >> A neighbor saw a similar colored creature run in front of his pickup as
> he
> >> drove home after dark a few nights later.
> >> He said it was NO dog!! That was prior to 1997, because I was coming
> home
> >> from work at the little store by the Old Station P.O. and 1997 was the
> last
> >> year I worked there.
> >>
> >> FireWalker and I got our hot tub in 1996 or so. Almost immediately
> after
> >> that, as we'd sit in it at night, F.W. began asking me if I could hear
> the
> >> very low howl that something was making. I'm hard of hearing and didn't
> >> get
> >> hearing aids til '98, so at that point, I had to say 'no'. But what I
> did
> >> hear after he'd ask me that question was total silence.
> >> Very unusual, because coyotes were usually singing and we had a neighbor
> >> with many loud dogs that barked in tune with the coyotes. Once I got my
> >> hearing aids I could hear what F.W. was talking about, a very deep howl,
> >> off
> >> toward the 1000 Lake Wilderness to our north. From the moment that howl
> >> was
> >> heard, every coyote and every dog shut up, crawled back into it's den,
> dog
> >> house, whatever, and was not heard from again that night. Since the
> dogs
> >> were close enough that even w/o hearing aids, they could keep me awake
> at
> >> night, I wished whatever critter was responsible for shutting them up
> would
> >> make itself known more often than just once or twice a week. We'd have
> >> gotten a lot more sleep. It was as if our local coyotes and dogs knew
> that
> >> whatever made that sound was bigger than they were, and maybe deadly.
> >> Unfortunately, we haven't heard that howl in years....tho in 2007, a
> hiker
> >> well-known on the trail said that while hiking thru Lassen N.P. the
> hiker
> >> looked up a side trail and saw a huge canine, black, if I recall and
> sort
> >> of
> >> scruffy looking, but definitely huge and definitely not a dog!
> >> There was no doubt in that hiker's mind...that critter was a wolf.
> >> They stared at each other and went their separate ways.
> >> Wolves in the southern Cascades? I think so!
> >> FireFly
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-l mailing list
> >> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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> >>
> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 13:43:09 -0700
> From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
> <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Cottonwood Creek Bridge "Faucet is now working"
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <B0C919AE-7905-4847-A86F-574D577D5966 at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On May 23, 2009, at 1:07 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> >
> > Thanks to Manblade, a hiker I met up with today at Cottonwood
> > Creek Bridge,
> > now know to me as
> > "Mr. Fixi-it ",
> > the faucet is working, and water
> > is available from the troff there.
> > Bob
> > http://www.hikerstown.com/
>
> Wow! Great news! Manblade, AKA Mr. Fix-it rocks!
>
> Piper
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:03:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Sean McNeal <crnowine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] tarp camping...
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <911417.8713.qm at web39702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello all.? I'm an old tent camper, and have decided to try a tarp.? What
> does one do to help keep the bugs out??
> Many thanks,
> s
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:10:25 -0700
> From: "kcristler" <kerouc at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] anger vs discussion
> To: "Amanda L Silvestri" <aslive at sbcglobal.net>,
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <84191E24DB6B4EAA9CC41CB880FB83F9 at YOUR6EA8154886>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
> a little preachy, Amanda, but not TOO preachy. it was you and your opinion,
> that's all. Your views are appreciated as much as all the others. Reading
> threads like these, one realizes the great diversity of opinions and views
> held by hikers. From totally over the top,semi-whacked-out, to timid,
> please
> don't disagree with each other type of people. That is why this list is
> interesting. Some people are complaing that we should stick to hiking only
> issues, religiously. Well, this list amazes me whenever someone asks for
> hiking advice, be it equipment, route, timing, travel or whatever. There is
> instantaneous outpouring of advice from all the experienced hikers. Most
> inquirers end up sending a post that reads "thank you so much, i never
> dreamed i'd get this much great advice". In the meantime, when no one is
> seeking advice, we gravitate to more contentious areas of the pct
> experience. If a thread irks someone, say your piece, or just don't read
> the
> thread, but why say to the others "stop, this thread irks me". As many of
> us
> know :) we have great moderaters to take care of that . Just my opinion of
> what i consider a great and liberal list.
> kerry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Amanda L Silvestri" <aslive at sbcglobal.net>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 10:57 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] anger vs discussion
>
>
> Yes, sometimes we go off on tangents here on the list. That is not
> necessarily a bad thing as long as we manage to have a civilized
> discussion.
> The exchange of ideas is healthy. Exposure to different points of view can
> allow us to see things from an angle we had not considered before. We
> certainly don't have to agree with everything that is said. If we did then
> there would be no point in having the discussion. A little humor now and
> then can also help to lighten things up a bit, as long as it is not hurtful
> or mean spirited.
>
> In my humble opinion, we would do well to guard against becoming
> emotionally
> invested in the outcome of these discussions. This is not a contest, race
> or
> battle between ideologies. It is the exchange of information and experience
> and yes, sometimes opinion. There is no need for winners and losers or to
> get in the last word. Just as the tent, sleeping bag, or cooking system
> that
> may work best for one person, won't quite cut it for another, so it is with
> opinions, beliefs and attitudes. One size does not fit all.
>
> I thank everyone for sharing what they know, have experienced, seen, read
> or
> heard. I thank you for honoring me with you opinion and beliefs. I only ask
> that we respect each other enough to allow for the differences. I encourage
> a polite exchange where no one needs feel attacked or belittled and
> everyone
> feels safe and welcome.
>
> I'm sorry. Too preachy?
>
> Shepherd
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:25:57 -0700
> From: "Bill" <BillBatch at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fragmenting the PCT information sources
> To: "'Sara Dyehouse'" <saradyehouse at yahoo.com>,
> <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <4E85E851BB3944F38941F02123A58166 at HomeOffice>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well,
>
> I had been holding back my thoughts, but since this dialog has some legs I
> think I will chime in briefly.
>
> I concur, as I have said before, that the list has lost much of its
> usefulness. On a recent hike from Agua to Hiker Town I met a handful of
> hikers and trail mainstays. I don't go out of my way to bring up the
> PCT-L,
> but it did come up twice. Both times the list came up multiple people were
> present. The response in both cases was something like this:
>
> "So and so from the PCT-L said . . ."
>
> And the gathered would let out a simultaneous, "Oh God, the firkin LIST -
> what has happened there." "Yea, I bailed out" "I had some serious
> questions, well serious to me, and . . . it was difficult to get the
> feedback from the noise", "there are some real mean spirited people on the
> list" "Yes, and you know that in person they don't act like that at
> all!"",
> "too many jokes, everything's a joke".
>
> These responses came from newbies as well as long time community members.
> Many said they have either unsubscribed, have simply stopped reading.
> Others are considering punting.
>
> I am not sure what to do about it. It is like a committee that has
> gathered
> weekly for some noble cause and over the years the cause is all but
> forgotten. Now, it is just a bunch of people socializing or arguing. No
> one really remembers the exact reason they started meeting every week, but
> what they do know is that so-and-so is an ass, that they are the funniest
> person in the room, no thought should go unsaid, and that you do not need
> to
> wait for the microphone, raise a hand, or even know the point of the
> meeting! You can just BLAH, HAHAHA, YOU SUCK, until your hearts content.
>
> Meanwhile, the person who read the "flyer" about this great meeting place
> of
> experienced hikers shows up at a meeting and says - what the heck is THIS?
>
> Why were we here?
>
> Pink Gumby
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sara Dyehouse [mailto:saradyehouse at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 9:21 AM
> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fragmenting the PCT information sources
>
> I, too, have been following the pct-l for many years (12 to be exact).? I
> have found a lot of useful information on here.? However, this year I
> decided to fight hard against the useless and offensive sexually-charged
> posts of Reinhold Metzger, because I wanted this list to be "family
> friendly."? In return, Brick chastised me and accused me of being a troll.
> ?
> Now that this year's hikers are on the trial, I'll be unsubscribing and
> following trail journals instead.? I seriously doubt I'll be back.
> ?
> So long everyone, and best wishes Class of 2009!
> ?
> Sara
>
> --- On Fri, 5/22/09, Ralph Alcorn <rbalcorn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Ralph Alcorn <rbalcorn at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Fragmenting the PCT information sources
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 3:20 PM
>
>
> I started following the pct-l around 2003. Back then it was an important
> source of information for me. I was a complete novice about many aspects of
> the pct, and learned a lot just by following the posts. I'm not sure I
> could
> do that now. There is so much noise between posts with information that I
> could miss something important.? I look for other sources of online pct
> information, and find that the last couple of pct classes have setup yahoo
> groups to get information. On Facebook there is a PCT hiker group. Several
> websites such as Postholer's have forums with PCT topics. Some of the
> hikers
> with a lot of experience have moved on to these other forums.
>
> I think these other PCT forums have some use, particularly for social
> networking, but it is worth remembering that PCT-L is the forum pointed to
> by PCTA.org, the Pacific Crest Trail Association's site. That makes the
> pct-l the first source of information for many hikers new to the PCT. They
> need answers from people with experience.
>
> Why not try and stick to the facts. Get the fundamentals across to the new
> hikers - avoiding dehydration, foot care, training, how to build up to big
> miles, how to deal with snow fields, how to get to Canada, announcement of
> trail magic events. When considering posting a new topic, give it some
> thought before hitting send. Will this improve a hiker's chance of getting
> to Canada, or will it distract the hiker from what is really important?
>
> If you've got an opinion on something that you think is important to pct
> hikers, but controversial, think it out, post your opinion and let it go.
> Forget the rebuttals, and rebutting the rebutts. Do that off the list. That
> way we shouldn't get more than about a dozen posts on a subject and it has
> had its turn. On to the next. The last post doesn't win. No cheating by
> editing the subject a little. If you've got more to say, say it on a social
> networking site.
> --
> Ralph Alcorn
> http://www.backpack45.com/pct.html
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 15:37:57 -0600
> From: "Marge" <marge at prothman.org>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] tarp camping...
> To: "'Sean McNeal'" <crnowine at yahoo.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <9F2BEBDABB4F416DA5336E3139607EA4 at usere18c4114b9>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi there,
> The first tarp tent I made, I put bug netting in both ends with a small
> zipper (long). This kept
> Out the bugs and it worked for me.
> Cheers,
> Marge(the old gal)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Sean McNeal
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 3:04 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] tarp camping...
>
> Hello all.? I'm an old tent camper, and have decided to try a tarp.? What
> does one do to help keep the bugs out? Many thanks, s
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 14:43:11 -0700
> From: "kcristler" <kerouc at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rather funny.. :)
> To: "Reinhold Metzger" <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>,
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>, "Hiker97" <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Message-ID: <E0E223CA4DEA4CED95E9036CA52E2EEC at YOUR6EA8154886>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reinhold Metzger" <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>; "Hiker97" <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 12:03 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Rather funny.. :)
>
>
> > HE IS A TROLL!!!
> > Brick has already closed this controversial thread and here he is
> > reviving it again and flaming innocent bystanders like Switchback and
> > Reinhold by name, without provocation, after they had been silent for
> > almost two weeks.
> > Switchback is more bashful and will suffer in silence.
> > I, on the other hand , have been in the line of fire before, (real life
> > fire) so this crap those not phase me one bit and a response is called
> > for.
> >
> > I say...."BAN THE TROLL".......BAN ANYBODY THAT DISAGREES WITH
> > ME.......BAN ANYBODY THAT
> > LACKS A SENSE OF HUMOR!!!
> >
> > Hhhmmm,......Seems to me that I heard this line of reasoning before
> > somewhere.
> > maybe in a thread about packing lite last year?
> kerry
> > JMT Reinhold
> > The bashful one
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > Elevator wrote:
> > I am thankful for the volunteers that provide the forum and moderate,
> > but with that said, the topic of guns is WAY more pertinent to the PCT
> > than many of the sexist threads and jokes that certain old timers on
> > this list frequently submit. There have been many requests to put a
> > stop to these topics but they seem to persist. Frankly, the topic that
> > Ned started was far my interesting in my opinion than all that other
> > crap that Switchback and Reinhold submit. Elevator
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 17, Issue 89
> *************************************
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