[pct-l] I have an idea, PC, un PC, whatever

[Fuzz McPherson]

Let's stop flapping our gums about it and get on to important things like tents and cool things to see along the way and trail angels and animal sightings and having FUN!!!!


 



________________________________
From: Will Hiltz <will.hiltz at gmail.com>
To: Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net; mark v <allemande6 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 10:34:47 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Just going to put this out there for Metzger to consider

Donna-


Thank you for all that you do for the trail.  The PCT is an amazing thing,
and would be considerably less so without your contribution year in, year
out.

However, with respect, this is a bunch of malarkey.  If Reinhold was making
"un-PC" comments regarding racial minorities or LBGT individuals would you
still be making the "this is all in good fun" argument?  It is an
unfortunate piece of our collective history that this kind of behaivor is
excused as being somehow more acceptable than other types of "non-pc"
"humor".


For my part, I see someone-- whatever his hiking credentials-- who is unable
to control himself from making intentionally provocative comments and is
generally in need of large amounts of attention couched in purile and
juvenile at best humor.  We call these people trolls.  Why should the fact
that he's hiked a lot have anything to do with it?

Repeated pirate/sex jokes have rapidly diminishing returns for those of us
on this list for its stated purpose... to gain information about and discuss
issues relating to the PCT. I can see how you have a more-sympathetic view
on this than most knowing Reinhold personally and featuring occasionally in
his missives, but just take a step back here.  I am quite sure there are
many listservs devoted to obtuse humor out on the internets.  Perhaps the
practitioners of the "comedy" routine and those who wish to follow it might
be best served elsewhere?


Easy

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:

> Geez, Mark.  If you didn't like the list, you didn't have to participate.
> Last time I checked, this was voluntary. If you didn't like certain topics,
> threads, or posters, you can delete them before ever reading them.  You can
> block email addresses too, eliminating posts from those who annoy you. I
> find it very interesting that you chose to subject yourself to something
> you
> didn't like, and then want to blame it on others.
>
> As to Reinhold, I put this out there for ALL to consider.  We are a diverse
> group in many, many ways on the social, economic, and generational scales.
> Views, attitudes, and political leanings range the spectrum.  Risking the
> folly of stereotyping, the young and the diversity/sensitivity-trained on
> this list know that sexist or racial comments are wrong and unacceptable,
> yet it is generally acknowledged that many in the older generation do not
> seem to have caught onto the shift in attitudes and acceptability. IMHO,
> Reinhold is simply an example of that. Does that make him an evil troll?
> No.  It merely makes him an example of a generation that doesn't see the
> harm in making sexist or very un-PC remarks.  Personally, I don't think
> Reinhold has never meant to cause offense.  I perceive that he may be
> oblivious to the fact that many find his comments about females and sex
> offensive.
>
> It is good and healthy and right to tell someone that you find their
> remarks
> offensive, but the call for outright banishment is a pretty severe
> reaction,
> especially for someone as accomplished on trails as Reinhold.  Perhaps this
> brouhaha will temper his comments going forward.  At least we can hope.  He
> is valued as a member of this community, and is respected in many circles
> for his achievements in the hiking world. He has a wealth of experience,
> passion for the trail, and unflaggingly attempts to lighten the attitude of
> the list through his (sometimes misguided) attempts at cheerfulness and
> humor.
>
> As for me, I treasure the crusty relics of a past generation, even though I
> don't personally share their views.  Jack Fair was one of the most
> offensive, foul-mouthed, course-edged cantankerous old guys that ever
> walked
> the earth, but was also one of the most beloved and memorable people along
> the trail. The world may be more politically correct, but it is certainly a
> lot more bland without the imperfect characters in it.
>
> L-Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of mark v
> Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 3:35 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Just going to put this out there for Metzger to consider
>
>
>
>
>
> This will probably get ME banned, but i'll consider it a favor.
>
> Metzger (and 1 or 2 other post-ers, maximum), as part of the class of 08,
> i'd like to let you know that to those that i hiked with and met, your
> posts
> make this otherwise worthwhile listserv an absolute joke.  All summer long,
> the mere mention of PCT-L made EVERY hiker shake their head in dismay.
>  It's
> really hard to sift through the rubbish generated by you (which remains in
> digest form, and in the posts of people who feel they need to counter it
> with replies), even with you on ignore.  You may feel that it's just JoAnn
> complaining, but i guarantee you it's not.  She's just the one who cares
> enough to make the effort to type her complaint.
>
> The rest of us roll our eyes, and eventually give up on the list.  Thanks
> for doing your part to ruin what could be a good resource for hikers
> interested in the trail.  If you decide to keep up your act, the trail will
> go on...just with one fewer place where one can go to learn about it.
>
>
>
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