[pct-l] Parental Aspects of Hiking
Dale Combs
comebackwalking at yahoo.com
Thu Mar 12 18:51:30 CDT 2009
Statistics wise the trail is far safer then you'd be on Friday/Saturday night on the town in a car with your friends. Driving to and from trailhead is more dangerous than time on the dusty.
I had older brothers who paved the way so it was easier for me. I was climbing at 12. I infiltrated the local college Outing Club when I was in the 8th grade. (A public college club may not be able to keep public citizens out). I was going on monthlong climbing trips with college students when I was 14. I went to Mt McKinley when I was 16. And spent every August in the mountains until I was 21 when I became too ambitious an adult to spend outdoors.
I never had to ask permission because it was a gradual evolotion. I told my parents about every detail and problem and crisis of my time in the mountains. They didn't worry a bit.
So the thing for you to do is polish your craft. Go on an overnighter every month of the year so that when August comes and you've saved your money they'll be no question about how your're going to spend August. If you're mature enough to pay your own way, you have dozens of trips under your belt, you've worked all the kinks out of your system, and you already have survived many small crises then your parents will have nothing but pride.
It also takes a number of weekend trips of going solo to be comfortable. You have to conquor the boogie man. Your first solo trip you'll be turning around to convince yourself your're really alone about every couple hundred yards. If your're like most people.
If you hit the trail solo, then you should be prepared to go solo. Because if you're not on the same time as the salmon run of Nobo's or if you're out of sync you could very well be alone.
And that can be a great, great thing. I spent last August solo from Emigrant Wilderness to Whitney Portal and before the trip I was a little scared of being alone. On the trail I didn't have time for anything except hiking and camp chores.
My buddy has done the JMT 7 times and he goes alone but hooks up with people. But one way or the other, going with other people while certainly not dangerous has been irritating and a hassle because other people always have an agenda and quirks. Nothing evil. Just possibly annoying. Then again the best part of the trail can also be meeting other people. People that you don't forget even though you only meet them one time or two.
So good luck. Polish your craft. And when you're ready you might not need permission because it'll already be fait accompli.
Combybear
PS I couldn't plan meals very well when I was a teenager. And that's what always drove me home. Sick of bad food.
PPS Or go do Outward Bound or NOLS with the rich kids.
--- On Thu, 3/12/09, pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 45
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Pct-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 44 (Rick Ostheimer)
2. The parental aspect of hiking (Sasha Leidman)
3. Base Weight Calculation (LumberJack)
4. maps (LumberJack)
5. water Sections A& B (LumberJack)
6. denied entry to canada B (LumberJack)
7. Shoes...How is everyone doing the shoes thing? (Sean Carey)
8. Re: Steripen (Trekker4 at aol.com)
9. Re: The parental aspect of hiking (Trekker4 at aol.com)
10. Re: Canadian Entry Permit Denied (JD Schaefer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:43:02 -0400
From: Rick Ostheimer <rick.ostheimer at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 44
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <49B884C6.10009 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I was embarrassed that the US side already does charge non US
citizens/permanent residents a fee for searching their bags and
examining their passports from my hiking pals the Belgian Waffles. That
and they're downright rude! It's about time they learned a little
courtesy and started treating vistors like guests. Whatever happened to
"Please", "Thank you", and "Welcome to the United States"?
Handlebar
> "That ought to get a rise out of the cash-strapped US Immigatration and Customs Service. Maybe they'll set up a competing booth on our side to service south-bound Canadian thrus. Just think, they could also levy a toll on hikers entering and leaving the USA"
>
>
> Wandering Bob
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:49:37 -0700
From: Sasha Leidman <sleidman at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] The parental aspect of hiking
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<94f506e40903112049m5871a20dpd1d4ae235d65bd0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Though this may be a bit of a tangent from normal conversation on this email
list, I was wondering what ages did you start going off and doing multiple
week hiking trips? Would you let your high school child go on one without
adult supervision? Has the social standards for hiking ages become more
liberal or conservative since the time you've started? I'm seventeen and I'm
hoping to section hike the pct sobo this summer. I've asked an number of my
friends from all across California if they'd like to join me. While they're
all avid hikers and are usually thrilled at the idea, I have not been able
to get parental consent from any of them. What are your opinions? Has this
impacted you in the past? Thanks.
--
Sasha Leidman
sleidman at gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: LumberJack <themtgoat at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Base Weight Calculation
To: ikem.freeman at gmail.com, vincent.rupp at gmail.com, pctl
<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <433865.76042.qm at web90407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I thought this was an interesting question, so Ill pipe in. When I did the PCT, I just used the 'standard' shorts, t-shirt, shoes and weigh everything else that would be in the pack when you start. This worked well. The true base weight calculation may be more accurate, in the sense of how much are you really carrying, but as you hike, you generally lose weight anyways, so the answer gets convoluted.
My story is probably less than many, but I started at 146, and dropped to 136LB.
After you do all those weight calculations, you missed that thing around your belly (or wherever your body puts those reserve calories).
I wouldn't spend your life on this calculation. I totally agree on the no food, water of fuel, omitted from the base weight, and anything in your hands, i.e. your walking sticks probably should be counted as part of the base weight, but keep it simple. The point of the trip is fun.
Yes I understand that part of the trip is seeing how light you can go, or far you can go in a day, I am guilty of totally enjoying the prospects of doing some major miles, but don't forget to enjoy the flowers on the way, the beautiful meadows, and the gorgeous sunsets.
For those who haven't heard from me for awhile, hello again, &? It? It looks like Ill join Robo Cop for the highlights of the wind River range in Wyoming on the CDT, as he completes his second thru hike this Spring/Summer.
Mountain Goat
PCT 2005
http://trailjournals.com/themtgoat
Ikem Freeman
ikem.freeman at gmail.com
Tue Mar 3 21:20:39 CST 2009
I love this question, and I don't think it gets asked enough!
I like the term "true base weight" ... dress like you are leaving for campo,
including your loaded pack, treking poles, hat, gloves, wallet, watch,
everything you'll have in your pockets (are you taking your car key and
house key, and if so, WHY?), your empty fuel bottle and empty water bottle,
and any food containers (tubes, baggies), etc. Don't include any fuel, food
or water (consumables). Step on the scale.
Now, step off the scale, take off all your clothes (and your hat). Step back
on the scale.
The difference between your body and simi-loaded back less the weight of
your naked body is your "true base weight".
This is an important question because I hear so many people on the trail say
that their base weight is 12 - 15 pounds, but I know that are NOT including
the weight of their treking poles, boots, the clothes they are wearing,
their wallet, stuff in their pockets, etc.
In '08, the Beadman was walking SoBo in S. CA, and I swear that he was
carrying at least 3 lbs of assorted car keys, key remotes, etc. It weight
almost as much as a camp chair, and I sure know that I'd much rather be
carrying a camp chair than useless car keys!
Hope this helped!
O. (Oscar) Ikem Sofar
http://100biketours.blogspot.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:56:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: LumberJack <themtgoat at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] maps
To: elawlor at gmail.com
Cc: pctl <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <491295.99387.qm at web90401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I used the guide book maps, but prefer 15 minute style maps, when I re-did the Northern terminus, I bought the PCT maps for Northern Washington.
The guide book maps, are black and white, and blue, and not quite as nice as I liked.
I agree, having real maps is nice. I am prepping to do a section of the CDT, and they have maps availble that you can print out on
standard printer paper. 1" to a mile, like the standard 15" maps. This works much better I thought.
Good look,
Mountain Goat
[pct-l] maps
Emily Lawlor
elawlor at gmail.com
Wed Mar 4 11:38:34 CST 2009
after reading Yogi's book and talking with past thru hikers I was convinced
that the maps in the guidebooks would be sufficient and I wouldn't need to
buy any other maps. But the more I think about it, the more I'd like to have
proper maps. I like to have some perspective while I am hiking and feel most
comfortable with a map. I noticed the PCTA has a map series, with a few
missing it looks like but my question is: has anyone else or is anyone else
bringing maps besides the guidebooks? Or should I just get over it and just
rely on the guidebook maps? THANKS!
Emily
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: LumberJack <themtgoat at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] water Sections A& B
To: "a iclaudius1"@verizon.net
Cc: pctl <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <260953.95550.qm at web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
One thing you may find useful, is figuring out how much water you use.
Before I did the thru hike, I was used to water every mile or so in the Sierra. In A, and B sections, the can be considerable distance. I did a pre-hike with Snickers in 2004, and figured out what I needed for cool, mild and hot weather. Your numbers WILL differ.
This might give you and idea, but it was nice just to carry that water you needed for the temperature range you are in... don't forget to add a fudge factor, like an extra quart, incase your off.
Mountain Goats:
Hot weather -85-100F about 3 miles, above 100F? are you kidding?
Warm weather - 5 miles to a quart. (65-85F)
In cool? (40-65F) weather, I could go 10 miles on a quart. Most people will probably use? more than a quart per 10 miles, FYI
Claudia
iclaudius1 at verizon.net
Tue Mar 10 19:51:44 CDT 2009
We've hiked lots of sections of the PCT but never sections A & B southern most. Do we really need to carry tons of water or are the caches pretty reliable? Hansel and Gretel
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:36:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: LumberJack <themtgoat at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] denied entry to canada B
To: wandering_bob at comcast.net
Cc: pctl <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <323484.84526.qm at web90408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In 2007, I went to the Northern Terminus on a section hike, and since I did not have
the paperwork that time, I turned around, and hiked 4 miles back to a trail junction,
and then 23 miles over to Ross lake, and 15 miles back to Hwy 20, and hitched out.
miles 42=4+15+23
I supposed its longer, but you get to do new trail, instead of just back tracking.
If you do, do what I suggested, its a harder trail than the PCT, until you get to Ross
lake. Then its virtually flat, the last 15 miles. I suggest looking at a map before
committing, because the trail has some major up and down, and in 2007, the 23
mile section had lots of down trees on it. Contact me if you want more info..
-Mountain Goat-
Bob Bankhead
wandering_bob at comcast.net
Wed Mar 11 14:19:01 CDT 2009
The PCT ends at the US/Canadian border at Monument 78. It does not go into Canada although most hikers do.
>From there, another trail continues north for 7 miles, ending at Highway 3.. You turn left and walk almost a mile west to Manning Park Lodge, from which you can catch a bus into Vancouver BC for your return home.
Your non-Canadian entry alternative would be to retrace your steps to either Harts Pass (39 miles) or Rainy Pass (69 miles) and you'd still have to hitch from either location. Your first real public transportation opportunity is all the way back in Steheken.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:43:36 -0700
From: Sean Carey <seanpct75 at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Shoes...How is everyone doing the shoes thing?
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<5dff32d10903120143m27abadcaide3a91a81fe561c6 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hello,
I am wondering how people do the shoes thing? I mean how many pairs are you
going to buy..Or have you bought when doing a thru hike? Is one pair of
shoes good enough until I get to the sierras? Then will one pair last me
from then until Ashland? California is the main thing I am wondering about.
I will know more about what i am doing and what I want to do once I hit
Ashland. For the rest of the trip..Thanks everyone..
Sean C.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:27:57 EDT
From: Trekker4 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Steripen
To: m.karon at comcast.net, cdt-l at backcountry.net, pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <caf.43220024.36ea3dad at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I've used a Classic Steripen for about 2,000 mi now, with no problems,
except one of my making.. I let it accidentally stay in a wet, nylon stuff sack
for many hours; water got into the battery compartment and killed it. I was 1.5
days from Durango finishing the CO Trail; I drank 1 qt of unpurified water
before reaching a spring, and finished unscathed. I do carry a few tablets now
for emergencies. Steripen asked me to send it in with $10 for repair. The
one I got back appeared brand new; it definitely wasn't the one I sent in.
Get the Classic, or original blue and white one, and use lithium
batteries (12 packs at Sam's or probably Costco). Their other models cost about 4
times as much per gallon to use; their chart shows half the battery life, and
the batteries cost twice as much.
Yes, the Classic is slightly heavier, but it's under 8 oz with lithiums.
Over the decades I tried all the others - Walbro (my first, a pour thru -
one never forgets one's first, eh Reinhold?), First Need, Sweetwater, and PUR
(Katahdyn-sp ?) - with mixed results; all but the Walbro weighed about 16 oz.
I use narrow neck bottles; the tapered rubber neck seals quite well
while one slowly rocks the bottle for 90 sec per quart. I've never had to try it
with really dirty water, but I'd probably use my bandana for a crude
pre-filter if necessary. Oh, and, uh, don't use the snotty parts of your bandana.
Bob "Trekker"
Big Bend Desert Denizen
Naturalized Citizen - Republic of Texas
Government cripples you, then hands you a crutch and says, 'See, if it
wasn't for us, you couldn't walk.'
-- Harry Browne
"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs
when its free."
-- P. J. ORourke
In a message dated 3/11/2009 9:11:47 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
m.karon at comcast.net writes:
http://www.rei.com/product/761906
**************Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a
recession.
(http://jobs.aol.com/gallery/growing-job-industries?ncid=emlcntuscare00000002)
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:38:24 EDT
From: Trekker4 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] The parental aspect of hiking
To: sleidman at gmail.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <cfe.4e6b673e.36ea4020 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sasha,
It wasn't totally clear, from the way your post was written, whether
you're the parent or the minor, and you didn't say if you have your parents'
permission to go hike. You did say you wanted to hike the PCT. I'd just make
sure you have a written letter of consent, signed by both parents, with you at
all times.
I can't really help you talk your friend's parents into it, but I've
always felt it was a valuable thing for someone just out of high school, or
college, to do. To me, it would look very good on a resume, from a discipline
point of view. It is a life changing experience, and far less dangerous than
driving down any highway in the country.
Bob "Trekker"
Big Bend Desert Denizen
Naturalized Citizen - Republic of Texas
Government cripples you, then hands you a crutch and says, 'See, if it
wasn't for us, you couldn't walk.'
-- Harry Browne
"If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs
when its free."
-- P. J. ORourke
In a message dated 3/11/2009 10:49:44 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
sleidman at gmail.com writes:
Though this may be a bit of a tangent from normal conversation on this email
list, I was wondering what ages did you start going off and doing multiple
week hiking trips? Would you let your high school child go on one without
adult supervision? Has the social standards for hiking ages become more
liberal or conservative since the time you've started? I'm seventeen and I'm
hoping to section hike the pct sobo this summer. I've asked an number of my
friends from all across California if they'd like to join me. While they're
all avid hikers and are usually thrilled at the idea, I have not been able
to get parental consent from any of them. What are your opinions? Has this
impacted you in the past? Thanks.
--
Sasha Leidman
sleidman at gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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recession.
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:28:53 -0400
From: JD Schaefer <jdrows at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Canadian Entry Permit Denied
To: Vincent Rupp <vincent.rupp at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <49B90005.9010505 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Well reasoned and well-stated.
JD
Vincent Rupp wrote:
> We should also hear a differing opinion on this matter. Not necessarily MY
> opinion, just a counter-argument for balance.
>
> The Canadians are kind enough to carve a spot in their governmental
> bureaucracy to stamp the forms of most people who want to enter their
> country from an unguarded United States trail. They don't have any
> obligation to let us walk right in and, if they decide too many people are
> coming in without respecting their process, they could shut it down. Then
> we'd walk up to pat a fence, sigh wearily, and turn around to try to find an
> alternative to the extremely convenient terminus in Manning Park.
>
> Maybe the more appropriate course is for the PCTA (or some helpful
> volunteers) to contact the authorities in Canada, find out what the rules
> are, ask if there's an appeal process, and then post the information on
> pcta.org so it's not a complete surprise a month before an applicant leaves
> Campo.
>
> Not sure what I'd do in the situation, but I know government officials
> detest having their rules trampled (even by people who trample extremely
> long distances to do so!).
>
>
------------------------------
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