[pct-l] who pays? - was:Search for Censored

Thu Jun 4 16:04:08 CDT 2009

On the CONTRARY,  I was saying that I didn't have any reason to know  
why she did or to say that she was wrong.  Read closer.  I was saying  
that without actually being in that situation, we can't really have a  
value judgement on the 911 call.

I read her journal entries.  She was meeting up with two other to hike  
some of the Sierras.

Who is your guy and what area is he in right now?  My girlfriend and I  
have given a lot of hikers rides this season while the pause at Agua  
Dulce.  We may have given him a ride to town or REI and have been  
trying to keep an eye on them after they continue on.  We care for  
them very much and respect what they are doing and we do not  
trivialize their risks.  Since we started giving rides, these names  
have become people and we think about them and worry about them, even  
though we may have only known them for an hour.  (Except for Deluxe,  
I've seen him so many times he may be on my XMas card list this  
year!  ;-)

I met Censored and couldn't remember if I gave her a ride to REI or  
just chatted with her while I waited for another hiker to get ready to  
go. I think I gave 7-10 hikers rides that day.  (I really wish I'd  
have kept a log of the names but some of the trips were quick and I  
was trying not be too much of a bother.)  Our time was limited and we  
had to prioritize those we gave rides to:  1st - hiker to doctor (in  
one case ER! ahhh!), 2nd - hiker to REI for shoes or broken gear, 3rd  
- hiker to Walmart,Costco,etc for resupply, 4th - hiker to store for  
dinner.  Add in hiker to (or from) train station, hiker to/from trail,  
hiker to pool party :-) and one day I drove for 8 hours (including  
running around Wlamart helping hikers find things). We didn't keep  
track of the miles or trips, but depending on how long the hikers keep  
coming in, my girlfriend and I might get to 2650 mile driven.  It's  
been fun.

BillB

On Jun 4, 2009, at 1:31 PM, annieguion at comcast.net wrote:

>
>
> You are writing as though you know why she called 911 and that she  
> had two people with her - how do you know that? None of the emails I  
> have seen have said what actually happened or that anyone other than  
> Censored was involved. Was the situation you wrote about just  
> hypothetical? My guy is out there and this whole thing had me a  
> little worried - does someone know the full story and who the other  
> two hikers were, if there were indeed two other hikers??
>
>
>
> Annie
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Burge" <bill at burge.com>
> To: "PCT list" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 3:38:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] who pays? - was:Search for Censored
>
>
> Responding to Mark's question, which is a valid one, and which I
> believe was asked in a non-judgmental manner with regards to this
> situation...
>
> I purchased the "rescue insurance" option on my SPoT.  I'm not sure
> how it would be used in this sort of situation because I don't know
> how you would request it of the insurance company.  I got mostly
> because it was for my Jeep and vehicle extraction can be quite costly
> (and the SAR teams draw the line at saving your vehicle!  ;-)
>
> As for WHEN to push the button, I was thinking that there were a
> number of options, but then I realized that I was making MY decisions
> with the benefit of current weather reports, doppler radar, a comfy
> couch and a Tivo swaking in my ear.  So I tried to place myself in the
> a different situation (yes, _based_ on that of Censored but only
> because that was readily available/unwinding):
>
> I'm cold.  I'm geared for _mostly_ other weather; and some of the
> OTHER weather rolls in.  My last weather report was days ago and THIS
> wasn't really a part of it.  A quick dusting of snow and the trail is
> obscured and the features of the landscape go "shades of grey" with
> snow and clouds making navigation confusing.  I'm pretty sure I'm off
> the trail or, at a minimum, I don't feel I can find my way.
>
> I could "hunker down", but I'm not sure how long this is gonna last
> (remember, last report days before and was clear) and my gear and
> supplies are marginal for "waiting things out" if this is going to
> last for more than a day or two.  I have two people who joined me and
> they are of varying experience and commitment.  That is to say, I've
> been on the trail for a month and a half and weathered many things but
> they have been on the trail less than a week and are not yet
> accustomed to "rolling with the punches".
>
> To reuse the line from Speed:
>
> "Pop quiz hotshot...  Unknown snow storm, can't find the trail, and
> two friends who think they're gonna die (maybe one is already
> hypothermic) - what do you do?"
>
> What would I do?  No clue.  I've been to the pistol range and am quite
> competent with a hand gun, but I'm never had to shoot at a target
> that's shooting AT ME.
>
> BillB
>
>
> On Jun 4, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Mark Liechty wrote:
>
>> An hour ago there were messages about where Search and rescue was.
>> Assuming any resources were deployed who is going to pay the bill?
>> Seems very unfair that we can head off on the trail and then demand
>> services on a whim without being responsible for the costs.
>>
>> Not saying who is on the hook but someone has to pay.   Not sure that
>> someone should be my parents who are having their benefits and pay  
>> cut
>> and taxes raised.   If we don't pay out of pocket for these things
>> then
>> we ARE demanding others pay for our mistakes.
>>
>> Assume getting off the trail and calling 911 =  mistake.
>>
>> And, yes, I am very glad everyone was safe as this is the perfect
>> scenario to discuss who pays for the mistake.  The hikers or my mom.
>>
>> Mark "Blankie" Liechty
>> mlaccs @ mlaccs . com
>>
>>
>>
>> Postholer wrote:
>>> Yep, she found her way back to the trail! Map:
>>> http://tinyurl.com/qksqv9
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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