[pct-l] Will I die using Fuel canisters?

[Jack Wallace]

It is (or was) legal to mail small quantities of propane or butane as long as it was sent (AND MARKED) "Surface Transportation Only".  The specifics of this type of mailing is described on the US Postal Service web site.  The first time I tried to do this type of mailing, the guy at the PO "just said no".  You may have to quote the specific postal regulation that allows you to do this.  Get specific info at www/usps.gov; search "publications only" for "butane"; and a pdf file for Pub 52, paragraph 342.22 should describe the limitations.  The second time, I went to the PO for my home address and had zero problems.  I have read that REI will mail fuel canisters also but I have not confirmed that.  If you do mail via land only, allow about 2 weeks for delivery.> From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net> Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 122> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:46:16 -0600> > Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to> pct-l at backcountry.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> pct-l-request at backcountry.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. Dream #1 (Stephen)> 2. Will I die using Fuel canisters? (David Margavage)> 3. Re: Will I die using Fuel canisters? (Will Hiltz)> 4. Re: Snow Skills Course in April (Phil Newhouse)> 5. Contacts vs. Glasses (Billy Simpson)> 6. Re: Will I die using Fuel canisters? (gwschenk at socal.rr.com)> 7. Re: 1st post / what to tell the boss....> (Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 23:03:17 -0800> From: "Stephen" <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>> Subject: [pct-l] Dream #1> To: "PCT-1" <Pct-l at backcountry.net>> Message-ID: <002001c981df$abb97d00$ca898304 at Stephen>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > I posted this in response to someone's message concerning the what to tell the boss post. > Don't know what this will generate, but thought I'd share it as it's own new thread...> Sometimes it's just good to think outloud...never know what someone might get out it. > Everything, nothing, who knows, but there it is.> > "Threw it all away on dreams"??? Are you sure? What is life without > dreams? And what would life be if we had no chance to fullfill them? And > how will we feel when we are no longer capable of answering those inner > calls; to look back and think, I wish I had done this or that before I could > not do it anymore?> Ionce had a dream. I was young then, and in the boyscouts. The bigger kids > were taking off on multi-day hikes with thier awsome Kelty packs and leather > boots. I made a couple weekend training hikes and that was it. When I was > in my early teens, about twelve IIRC, I was finally able to make a multi-day > hike up in the Lassen backcountry with my church youth group and the pastor. > Of course they were recruiting souls but that made no nevermind to me, I was > backpacking! Eleven days of sun, paddling logs out onto the lava lakes, and > oh the mosquitoes. I got my eye swollen shut from a nightime bite. After > that it was surfing and never returned to the backcountry until in my > thirties. And when I did I wanted to backpack, and solo. I guess at some > point I really made up my mind because a few months later I found myself > wandering down one of the most mind altering experinces of my life. Some > folks call it Grand Gulch. It still wasn't as popular, or populated as it > has been in recent years. I've never had a feeling like I did when I > strolled down that canyon with my, yes, big awsome Kelty pack. It was like > walking in a dream come true; if not a bit eerie. From there it was all > downhill... I met a beautiful lady on the way home at Escalante (strange > that I went far out of my way to go there when I did), stopped by Whitney > Portal for a little October stroll before last last leg home and was > absolutley lost. This gal made plans with me to take my first backpack in > the Sierra out of Cedar Grove in Kings, and that was the end of me. After > that the Kelty was sold, then the Gregory was sold and I started > experimenting with lighter and more comfortable gear. I met people, got > ideas, and just kept going back. I quit my regular work, went back to > school, worked part time, and hiked, climbed, hiked more, drove around a > lot, and somehow ended up getting into photography. I remember one day > decending to the Middle Fork Kings over Granite pass, having walked there in > two days from Onion Valley over Keasarge Pass, 9000 ft, to 5,500 and back to > 10,000 and down again to 5,500 in 2-1/2 days. My Journal entry over looking > the Middle Fork says it felt like walking in a dream. I was absolutely all > alone until I cam across a trail crew late in the day, some of whom I > remained friends with for a few years. It was not the aloneness, but the > feeling I received just walking along in the mountains. A feeling I have > never felt in any other aspect of life. Not even surfing into Honolulu on a > big fast racing sailboat a couple years ago, which incidently was another > dream come true that required sacrifice to fullfill, registered anything > like I get when detached and out in the backcountry, away from electricity. > I'm getting older, and the condition of my feet, hips and lower back are > deteriorating. I felt lethargic and depressed recently. I could not for the > life of me figure it out. Ihave fullfilled every dream I had once had and > lack any goals or something to dream on, struggle for etc... No drive if > you will. But one little aching dream has always lurked,and that my fine > footed friends is called the PCT. I've done re-supplies within the Sierra > through Vermillion and the like, but have never cut loose, been dumped at a > trail head to dissappear into the backcounrty only to emerge again at some > far destination. My travels arounds California have many times found me > parked where the PCT crosses a road, whether in the San Gabrials, San > Bernadinos, Trinities, Sierra, Cascades etc..., I've taken little walks down > the trail and just felt it. Can you feel it? It's there. It's all there > just waiting. Remembering all these things I tactifully mentioned to the > fella I work for, with, and sometimes against, that "I wonder if I shouldn't > try taking a long walk on the PCT? I've always wanted to, maybe at least > the JMT, or hike from the mid/Sierra to the Trinities, maybe Crater Lake or > something like that?" So far so good, and since he knows of a good friend > of mine who lives outside Portland within easy drive of Mt Hood, I suggested > wouldn't it be neat to call Brian Biller and and tell him I'll meet him at > Timberline Lodge where we've been skiing together? And that's how dreams > start to materialize. Years ago when I started all this fool travelling and > quit my regular job it was this friend with whom I rented a room, and > thereby lowering my cost of living dramatically, this boss who I worked for > part time when I was in town, and now may very well turn out to be the ones > who deposit me at the doorstep and receive me on the other side. You just > never know how things will work out. Probably not the way we expect I think. > Whatever you tell the boss, tell the truth, but just do it tactfully, and > letting them suggest your dream if you can swing it that way.> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 08:54:55 -0500> From: David Margavage <davidmargavage at gmail.com>> Subject: [pct-l] Will I die using Fuel canisters?> To: Pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID:> <715293e0901290554u316bc51ag468357eb65943fa2 at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > I've been on the L a few times asking about where to resupply fuel> canisters. I received a few responses. So I "broke down" and got YOGI.> Yes, it is very good reading and planning information. I'm glad I got it. It> has sections reviewing different types of shoes, socks, packs, bags, pads,> food, cook pots, etc. BUT, when it comes to stoves there is ONLY one in> YOGI, "Alcohol Stoves." Nothing else! Not one comment regarding canisters> or any other type of stove. Is there a secret socity of the West I'm not> privy to? Will I die using a fuel canister or worse yet eat cold ramens? I> promise I won't tell anyone here in the EAST ;-)> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:10:19 -0500> From: Will Hiltz <will.hiltz at gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Will I die using Fuel canisters?> To: David Margavage <davidmargavage at gmail.com>> Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID:> <739c11e60901290610t48aafdf5qd1a578c606cf8467 at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > HI David-> > > I've run into similar problems in the past when I've emailed out about the> availability of fuel for my Whisperlite. Most responses don't actually> address my question, but rather expound upon the virtues of the alcohol> stove. I call these people stove nazis! Not to worry though, those of us> who like to legally use stoves in fire restricted areas and heat piping hot> ramen can still hike the trail. My guess is that you'll be able to find a> cannister in all the places that have an outfitter-- off the top of my head:> > Idyllwild> Wrightwood> Bishop> Mammoth> Tahoe> Chester (maybe)> Mt. Shasta City> Ashland> Sisters> Trout Lake (MAYBE, though the outfitter might now be closed)> Packwood> Winthrop> > > A couple of these places are a little farther off the trail but easily> reachable through hitching. I don't know how fast you go through cannisters> but it seems to me the only area you might have a serious issue is towards> the northern end of the trail. A jaunt into Portland or Seattle would> obviously fix that. It was also my experience that many hiker boxes> contained cannisters that were at least partially (sometimes mostly) full so> that could also help you out in a pinch. Given how much use one of the> people I traveled with was getting out of her cannister, I think finding> white gas is the much harder task. Even then, I only ran out once for a> couple of days. Hope this helps!> > YITOOD,> > Easy> > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:54 AM, David Margavage> <davidmargavage at gmail.com>wrote:> > > I've been on the L a few times asking about where to resupply fuel> > canisters. I received a few responses. So I "broke down" and got YOGI.> > Yes, it is very good reading and planning information. I'm glad I got it.> > It> > has sections reviewing different types of shoes, socks, packs, bags, pads,> > food, cook pots, etc. BUT, when it comes to stoves there is ONLY one in> > YOGI, "Alcohol Stoves." Nothing else! Not one comment regarding canisters> > or any other type of stove. Is there a secret socity of the West I'm not> > privy to? Will I die using a fuel canister or worse yet eat cold ramens? I> > promise I won't tell anyone here in the EAST ;-)> > _______________________________________________> > Pct-l mailing list> > Pct-l at backcountry.net> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> >> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 06:15:55 -0800> From: Phil Newhouse <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Snow Skills Course in April> To: ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com> Cc: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>, kmurray at pol.net> Message-ID:> <bc1c2a630901290615k44aae4dan8da0826c92d07ea2 at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > Ned,> > What will the location for the course be?> > phil> irvine, ca> > On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:21 PM, <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com> wrote:> > > Hi, Ken! Good to hear from you. Thanks for spreading the word.> >> > Though Mountain Education is no longer, I am still guiding and teaching the> > PCT-Prep Snow Course on an as-needed basis.> >> > This year it will be held the first weekend in April on that Friday,> > Saturday, Sunday, (April 3,4,5).> > Thus far, we have about a dozen people attending, both past and future pct> > thru hikers.> >> > The Course will teach the following skills:> >> > On-Snow Navigation and Visual Route Referencing> > Under-snow hidden hazards> > Creek and lake crossings relative to snow pack> > Avalanche awareness and assessment (not rescue techniques)> > The dangers of open, buried, frozen, and getting water> > Snow Camping (site selection, cooking, sanitation, dealing with storms> > and frozen mornings)> > Snow-travel techniques (ice, creeks, trees, post-holing, sun-cups,> > exposure, etc...)> > Climbing and Descending techniques with poles and/or ice axes> > Self-Arrest techniques for the falling thru-hiker> >> > Anyone interested should e-mail me to request a space. The Course is free.> > If students feel that the training was valuable, a donation at the end of> > the> > Course will be accepted.> >> > ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com> >> > Mtnned> >> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: <kmurray at pol.net>> > To: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:03 AM> > Subject: Mountain education> >> >> > Ned, are you still running seminars on snow travel? I've had an inquiry> > from someone in SF, and thought I'd recommend you if you are. If not, do> > you have a recommendation?> >> > If so, should I just give your email addr?> >> > Ken> >> >> >> > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature> > database 3805 (20090127) __________> >> > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.> >> > http://www.eset.com> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > Pct-l mailing list> > Pct-l at backcountry.net> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> >> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:14:47 -0600> From: Billy Simpson <billys100 at aol.com>> Subject: [pct-l] Contacts vs. Glasses> To: Pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <10BC492A-E936-4CDA-A82F-E770134AA907 at aol.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes> > I'm enjoying the forum and it helps alot as i've not done as much > hiking in the west.> > I have really bad vision but it is corrected by contacts or glasses. > i tried the contacts on the AT but forgot about them soon as it was > too much hassle taking them in and out all the time and lugging the > extra stuff it takes to deal with them, solution etc. glasses aren't > really an issue on the AT as you really can do without sunglasses so i > wore glasses just about the whole trip. it is quite a different story > on the PCT. I was thinking about going and finding a cheap pair of > frames and getting some prescription sunglasses made up or better yet, > the kind of lenses that darken with light.> > any sage advice?> > woodstock> > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:30:14 +0000> From: <gwschenk at socal.rr.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Will I die using Fuel canisters?> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <20090129153014.3P9RZ.48159.root at hrndva-web14-z02>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8> > Last year I started using the Primus Eta Power Pot with my cartridge stove. It really extends the life of a gas cartridge significantly.> > Using it with a wind screen and an Optimus Stella+ remote stove it had water boiling super fast.> > Boiling water for tea and oatmeal in the morning, and for couscous and tea in the evening using that setup a small MSR or Primus cartridge was good for 5 days plus.> > For the PCT, the Optimus stove might be too heavy, but using that pot with a very light stove such as a MSR Superfly is worthy of consideration.> > Getting back on topic, that pot is so efficient, you'd need fewer cartridges on the trail and so need worry less about availability.> > Gary> > ---- Will Hiltz <will.hiltz at gmail.com> wrote: > > HI David-> > > > > > I've run into similar problems in the past when I've emailed out about the> > availability of fuel for my Whisperlite. Most responses don't actually> > address my question, but rather expound upon the virtues of the alcohol> > stove. I call these people stove nazis! Not to worry though, those of us> > who like to legally use stoves in fire restricted areas and heat piping hot> > ramen can still hike the trail. My guess is that you'll be able to find a> > cannister in all the places that have an outfitter-- off the top of my head:> > > > Idyllwild> > Wrightwood> > Bishop> > Mammoth> > Tahoe> > Chester (maybe)> > Mt. Shasta City> > Ashland> > Sisters> > Trout Lake (MAYBE, though the outfitter might now be closed)> > Packwood> > Winthrop> > > > > > A couple of these places are a little farther off the trail but easily> > reachable through hitching. I don't know how fast you go through cannisters> > but it seems to me the only area you might have a serious issue is towards> > the northern end of the trail. A jaunt into Portland or Seattle would> > obviously fix that. It was also my experience that many hiker boxes> > contained cannisters that were at least partially (sometimes mostly) full so> > that could also help you out in a pinch. Given how much use one of the> > people I traveled with was getting out of her cannister, I think finding> > white gas is the much harder task. Even then, I only ran out once for a> > couple of days. Hope this helps!> > > > YITOOD,> > > > Easy> > > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 8:54 AM, David Margavage> > <davidmargavage at gmail.com>wrote:> > > > > I've been on the L a few times asking about where to resupply fuel> > > canisters. I received a few responses. So I "broke down" and got YOGI.> > > Yes, it is very good reading and planning information. I'm glad I got it.> > > It> > > has sections reviewing different types of shoes, socks, packs, bags, pads,> > > food, cook pots, etc. BUT, when it comes to stoves there is ONLY one in> > > YOGI, "Alcohol Stoves." Nothing else! Not one comment regarding canisters> > > or any other type of stove. Is there a secret socity of the West I'm not> > > privy to? Will I die using a fuel canister or worse yet eat cold ramens? I> > > promise I won't tell anyone here in the EAST ;-)> > > _______________________________________________> > > Pct-l mailing list> > > Pct-l at backcountry.net> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > >> > _______________________________________________> > Pct-l mailing list> > Pct-l at backcountry.net> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 7> Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 07:49:40 -0800> From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com> <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1st post / what to tell the boss....> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID:> <C0AE0CBC-B139-4C89-AF3F-486DB9B1419C at santabarbarahikes.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed> > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:55 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:> > > My travels arounds California have many times found me> > parked where the PCT crosses a road, whether in the San Gabrials, San> > Bernadinos, Trinities, Sierra, Cascades etc..., I've taken little > > walks down> > the trail and just felt it. Can you feel it? It's there.> > Aside from carting around a book since 1975 about the PCT, my dreams > were stoked those times I found myself standing on a crossroads with > the PCT, too.> > There was the time we climbed Langley Peak and I swore I saw some PCT > hikers with their ultralight packs and almost running pace.> > There was the time when I was 16 and my church group hiked from > Mammoth to Tuolumne Meadows and then down into the Valley. (We took > our bibles out the first night, took a look at Shadow Lake, looked at > each other and said "Nah" and put the bibles away never to be looked > at again.)> > There was the time I went to visit my mother near Lassen and we went > to look at Subway cave and the spatter cone nature trail and I stood > at the crossroads on the trail and thought how amazing it was that in > that direction is Mexico and in that direction is Canada. After that > trip I went home and started training to go to Nepal, lost 35lbs and > fulfilled my dream to see Mt. Everest. But before I saw Everest and > after I lost the weight I returned and hiked from Domingo Springs to > Old Station on the PCT (well, on the suggested alternate lake-blessed > route). I carried a section of the guide book xeroxed from the > library and visited the post office just to see it. I crossed that > spatter cone trail crossroads again, this time happy I was on the > PCT, then road walked to Uncle somebody's restaurant and that was the > end of my hike. But I swore I'd cross that crossroads again.> > I did this summer. That was great. But they rerouted the trail > somewhat and the crossroads wasn't a perfect cross anymore. No matter.> > Yes, my dream has been lifelong and has been a great unfolding for > me. I know the feeling you speak of.> > Still, I live in captivity. I'm not Billy Goat. I have no pension. As > my savings dwindle and my longing to return to the PCT doesn't, I > sometimes feel sorry I stepped out of the cage. Perhaps it would have > been better to have remained asleep. I know that's not true, but I > could have saved up even more money for an even bigger helping of > true living.> > I find myself shopping for more gear. This time I will have something > to help me walk on the snow in the Sierras so I don't give up. This > time I'll have a free-standing bug net so I can sleep under the stars > more often. This time I'll have gear for the Pacific NW rain so I > don't have to go home in Ashland. This time I'll make it to Canada. > This time I'll start from my front door instead of Campo so that > every day I will stand on a crossroads with the PCT.> > Then what? I'll probably be completely destroyed by that point. > Unable to function in captivity. Or maybe I'll finally be cured. It > remains to be seen. If only I could find a way to live instead of > survive.> > At least I have no boss to tell this time. Just the nagging doubt > that I should be getting on with my career already, that it's passing > me by and I'm falling way behind, dooming myself to sweeping and > burger flipping from here on out. Telling the boss is the easy part. > He really doesn't care. It's a business relationship. Telling > yourself might be harder. You have to live with your decisions.> > ~Piper> > > ------------------------------> > _______________________________________________> Pct-l mailing list> Pct-l at backcountry.net> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > > End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 122> **************************************
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