[pct-l] TP ???

patti kulesz peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com
Sun Jan 25 16:17:44 CST 2009


mmmm makes me want to go and drink down stream from the Kern....

patti

--- On Sun, 1/25/09, Stephen <reddirt2 at earthlink.net> wrote:

From: Stephen <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
To: "patti kulesz" <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>, "Will Hiltz" <will.hiltz at gmail.com>, "Phil Newhouse" <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>
Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 1:09 PM



 
 

Good on you for calling them out, so long as 
there was no gun play.  
About five years ago I was waitng to meet a friend 
to hike out and climb Mt Williamson, so decided to kill a couple days and 
went down and got a permit for Whitney.  Loaded my huge 16lb pack and 
rambled up the trail to upper trail camp, during the after noon storms 
and leaving at 5PM and arriving just at dark.  I found a little tent 
flat, threw down my bivy, made soup and realized the oder wasn't normal for 
the high country.  And it wasn't the pit toilets as the wind was 
wrong.  I decided it had to be from so much usage year in and 
year out of people getting up and peeing around the flat, probably mostly at 
night. Later when the breeze died down I was sure of it.  Mice were 
scurrying around all night.  The next morning just as it was showing light 
and I was passing through the dynamited cable section before ascending to 
Trail Crest I almost stepped in crap where someone had left a dookey 
right in the middle of the rock trail, paper and 
all.  
However, this is why I tend to go to less popular 
areas where folks who go there have a dfferent attittude and level of knowledge 
and experience.  What I experienced on the Whitney trail didn't really 
surprise me as unussual.  In fact it seemed more the norm.  I recently 
visited a friend at Kern RIver.  I spent an afternoon along the river road 
and what I saw there did surprise me.  Not just a couple palces, but 
everywhere the road and river were litterally lined with TP 
and craps. 
And tell me if this surprises you, some of the 
worst back country etiquette I have witnessed have been Sierra Club 
groups.  Not all, and probably the majority mean well, and I have 
had meny a pleasant trailside talk with these folks, but I have also cleaned 
up after them and so forth.  Fly in from New York, meet the 
group, hike for five or six days and go back to New York probably never to 
return.  Good for you, but take your crap with you.  
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 

  From: 
  patti 
  kulesz 
  To: Will Hiltz ; Phil Newhouse 
  ; Stephen 
  Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:38 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
  

  
    
    
      that's awesome...sounds like something I would do. I 
        actually got into an argument with a couple in Ojai with their family 
        (kids) b/c they peed about two feet from the water in their own site no 
        less and left the paper right next to it. Mind you there was a pit 
        toilet not even 200 yards from their site! When I mentioned to them that 
        the water was for my drinking on the trail, they tried to deny it saying 
        that someone else must have done it. Just one of the many reasons I try 
        my hardest to stay away from much populated areas while camping and 
        hiking. Keep the paper trail in the office...not in the back 
        country!


        
        patti

--- 
        On Sun, 1/25/09, Stephen <reddirt2 at earthlink.net> 
        wrote:

        
From: 
          Stephen <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP 
          ???
To: "Will Hiltz" <will.hiltz at gmail.com>, "Phil Newhouse" 
          <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>
Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: 
          Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:43 AM


          Oh no, let's do poopy rocks !  You brought 
          it up.  Just kidding, don't need 
to do it.
This thread 
          though makes me think some things are an issue and need to be 
          
addressed.  The popular trails in Seq/Kings are lined with 
          TP.  Seriously, I 
see it everywhere.  Often there is a 
          rock on top of it.
Once a familly asked if Iwould look for a rain 
          parka for them at thier last 
camp and leaveon thier car atTH if I 
          found it.  Yeah I found it.  I found it 
right next to a 
          big poop that could not have been the kid, and so left the 
parka 
          with a nice note on thier car.  Unfortunately Iam really good at 
          
finding things, on purpose, and accident.  I've found 
          everything but not 
limited to my "Classic" knife, a PUR water 
          filter, pack cover, pots and 
pans, a 15ft piece of poly sheeting 
          on Lamarck Col, tent stakes of course, 
hankerchiefs, sandals, a 
          few other knives .... and poop.   Keep track of 
          
your stuff and put brightcolored stringor something on your little 
          items. 
Always go back and take a second look where camped, or stop 
          along the way. 
And don't leave TP all over the hills !
----- 
          Original Message ----- 
From: "Will Hiltz" <will.hiltz at gmail.com>
To: 
          "Phil Newhouse" <newhoupa1 at gmail.com>
Cc: 
          <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: 
          Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP 
          ???


> For those of you longer-time list members you 
          might remember the "poopy
> rocks" thread.  I won't subject 
          you to that again but I agree with what
> several others have 
          said:
>
> Burying TP, no matter what it looks like in your 
          backyard, is not proper
> wilderness practice.  If you must 
          use TP, you must take it with you.
> Odor-proof plastic bags 
          would be a good idea in bear country.  If you 
> 
          can't
> stand the thought of carrying used TP, then use what 
          nature gives you...
>
>
> YITOOD,
>
> 
          Easy
>
> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Phil Newhouse 
          <newhoupa1 at gmail.com> 
          
> wrote:
>
>> People packing "it" out:  
          what is the prescription for overnight storage 
>> 
          in
>> Bear Country?
>>
>> 
          phil
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2009 at 8:31 
          AM, Michael Chamoun <nano.michael at gmail.com
>> 
          >wrote:
>>
>> > Pack it out. that 
          simple.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 9:15 
          PM, patti kulesz <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com
>> 
          > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > well the dog 
          poop is picked up b/c it's the law apparently...dog's
>> 
          don't
>> > > eat organic and it keeps the natural 
          critters away from their natural
>> > > habitat...in 
          another words...they smell the dog poop and then stay 
>> 
          > > away
>> > form
>> > > where they 
          should be....maybe we should start putting dog poop around
>> 
          the
>> > > camps so the bears stay away..LOL 
          JK
>> > >
>> > > patti
>> > 
          >
>> > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, David Margavage <davidmargavage at gmail.com> 
          
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > 
          > From: David Margavage <davidmargavage at gmail.com>
>> 
          > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
>> > > To: "sue.kettles at comcast.net" 
          <sue.kettles at comcast.net>,
>> 
          > > Pct-l at backcountry.net
>> 
          > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 7:51 PM
>> > 
          >
>> > > I think they pick up the dog poop so we 
          don't step in it I think? 
>> > > But
>> > 
          I'm
>> > > with you about biodegradable 
          paper.
>> > >
>> > > On 1/24/09, sue.kettles at comcast.net 
          <sue.kettles at comcast.net> 
          wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > 
          >
>> > > >
>> > > > Please 
          don't jump all over me, because I really would like to 
          know.
>>  In
>> > > 20
>> > 
          > > years of backpacking, I have never had that happen... 
          digging a 
>> > > > hole
>> > 
          and
>> > > > finding something.  Guess I'm just 
          lucky.  When I did a trial bury 
>> > > > 
          of
>> > TP
>> > > in
>> > > 
          > my back yard, in the fall, by spring, it was pretty 
          well
>> disintegrated.
>> > > (I
>> 
          > > > do live in Oregon - so it rains alot here)  It is 
          a tree source 
>> > > > after
>> > > 
          all...
>> > > > and if its not perfumed and colored, 
          whats the big deal burying it
>> the
>> > > 
          right
>> > > > depth if in the right terrain??  
          I don't want to be ignorant, but I
>> > don't
>> 
          > > > want to do something that is maybe, at this moment, the 
          new "right
>> > way".
>> > > > Like 
          people picking up their dog crap in plastic bags and putting 
          
>> > > > it
>> in
>> > > 
          the
>> > > > garbage can?  How is that supposed 
          to help the environment when it
>> will
>> > > 
          take
>> > > > much longer to decompose in a landfill 
          in that plastic baggy.
>>  Someone
>> > > 
          with
>> > > > knowlege,...please,  I'd love to 
          understand.
>> > > >
>> > > 
          >
>> > > >
>> > > > 
          HJ
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> 
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > 
          From: "patti kulesz" <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>
>> 
          > > > To: afishnamedcarl at gmail.com, 
          pct-l at backcountry.net, 
          "AsABat"
>> > > > <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net>
>> 
          > > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:29:23 PM GMT -05:00 
          US/Canada
>> > Eastern
>> > > > Subject: 
          Re: [pct-l] TP ???
>> > > >
>> > > 
          > it really sux too when one tries to find a spot to go and digs up 
          a
>> > bunch
>> > > > of someone else's 
          TP and ...well u know....
>> > > >
>> > 
          > > patti
>> > > >
>> > > > 
          --- On Sat, 1/24/09, AsABat <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net> 
          wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > From: 
          AsABat <AsABat at 4Jeffrey.Net>
>> 
          > > > Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP ???
>> > > > 
          To: afishnamedcarl at gmail.com, 
          pct-l at backcountry.net
>> 
          > > > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 5:32 PM
>> 
          > > >
>> > > > It's very easy to put the 
          used TP in a ziploc-type back and pack it
>> > 
          out.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> 
          > > > Burying it in the hole gets ugly when a critter digs it 
          up (yes, 
>> > > > they
>> > > > 
          do), or rain washes just enough soil away to reveal the TP 
          
>> > > > streamer.
>> > > 
          >
>> > > > Burning it is a really bad idea. I 
          thruhiker started a wildfire a
>> > couple
>> 
          > > > years ago doing that.
>> > > 
          >
>> > > > AsABat
>> > > 
          >
>> > > >
>> > > > >  
          What's the deal with TP. Pack in pack out or leave it in 
          the
>> whole.
>> > > > > Obviously 
          taking it out is better but no one likes carring used 
>> 
          > > > > tp
>> > > > with
>> 
          > > > > them.
>> > > >
>> > 
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>> 
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>> > > >
>> > > 
          >
>> > > >
>> > > > 
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