[pct-l] Trout Lake and Mt. Adams account

montypct montypct at gmail.com
Sat Feb 21 22:29:56 CST 2009 

>Sure different from the ones that arrested me
in Mojave a few months earlier!

Did you already tell this story, Ned?




Lightweight Backpacking
The fun goes up when the weight goes down
-Warner Springs Monty

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
To: "montypct" <montypct at gmail.com>; <whcrs4543 at aol.com>
Cc: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trout Lake and Mt. Adams account


> Monty,
>
> The one I was referring to was partly included in "H & R 102" posted at 
> 3am last night. The significant addition to the story was that the Ranger 
> in Trout Lake who approved our climbing permit of Mt. Adams said that we 
> could sign off the mtn. at Midway Guard on the north side of the mtn.. 
> When it was found to still be closed (Aug. 9th), all we could do was to 
> continue up the trail through Goat Rocks to White Pass (Aug. 11).
>
> When I wandered through the campground looking for a site, a tow truck 
> came up from behind and stopped next to me, the driver hanging out the 
> window as if really eager to tell me something. He asked if I was hiking 
> the pct. I said that I was. "Are you and your friend from Sonoma?" Now, I 
> got a little concerned. "Yeah!? What's up?"
>
> "The Sheriff wants to talk to you. Jump in and I'll take you over to the 
> gas station where we can use the phone." You know those moments in life 
> where you feel scared, yet trusting, and, briefly, don't know what to do? 
> This was one.
>
> The gas station was a little to the west at the ski area on the top of the 
> pass. As the metal and glass door of the cold station closed behind me, 
> the foreign smells of sweat and auto oil nearly overwhelmed me. There was 
> a cheery lady working there. She and the tow driver got to talking and 
> then she made a phone call, handing the receiver to the driver. It was 
> beginning to seem that I was in some sort of serious mess.
>
> A few words passed between the driver and the Sheriff and he handed me the 
> phone.
>
> "Hi," came the friendly, almost neighborly, voice. "Are you hiking the 
> Pacific Crest Trail and from Sonoma?"
> "Yes, sir." (You always say, 'sir,' when confronted by authority!)
> "How's your trip been?"
> That's where I went off on a nervous accounting of some of the highlights 
> of the last five months.
> "How was your climb of Mt. Adams? When you didn't report in at Midway 
> Guard we sent out search parties looking for you two...."
> I didn't hear the next few things he said as my mind started spinning with 
> the repercussions of this.
> "We had a helicopter and a few ground parties out on both sides of the 
> mountain. Called you mom at three in the morning to verify your identity 
> and that you were, indeed, hiking the trail. She's a nice lady...."
> I'm thinking, I'm in a sh-- load of trouble!
> "Well, I'm glad that you're safe and that you have been having a great 
> trip so far!"
> "Thanks, Sir, for all your efforts. We would have signed off the mountain 
> at Midway, but no one was there."
> "That's ok, son. We're just happy that you're safe and sound. Have a good 
> trip the rest of the way!"
>
> That was the nicest Sheriff. Sure different from the ones that arrested me 
> in Mojave a few months earlier!
>
> Mtnned
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "montypct" <montypct at gmail.com>
> To: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>; <whcrs4543 at aol.com>
> Cc: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 8:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trout Lake and Mt. Adams
>
>
>> Sure
>> I love funny PCT stories
>>
>>
>> Lightweight Backpacking
>> The fun goes up when the weight goes down
>> -Warner Springs Monty
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
>> To: "montypct" <montypct at gmail.com>; <whcrs4543 at aol.com>
>> Cc: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trout Lake and Mt. Adams
>>
>>
>>> Monte,
>>>
>>> We could be at this all night!  Listen, if you want to hear another 
>>> funny story about my thru experiences with Trout Lake, the Forest 
>>> Service,  Mt. Adams, and Midway Guard Station, let me know! It's another 
>>> typical thru-adventure...
>>>
>>> Ned
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "montypct" <montypct at gmail.com>
>>> To: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>; <whcrs4543 at aol.com>
>>> Cc: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] The peanut butter & tortilla diet
>>>
>>>
>>>> In 2007 I think Dozen told me he was eating nothing but peanut butter 
>>>> and tortillas when I ran into him near Trout Lake in Washington.
>>>> He was picking wild huckleberries and smashing them into his peanut 
>>>> butter.
>>>>
>>>> I think this was just a temporary condition though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lightweight Backpacking
>>>> The fun goes up when the weight goes down
>>>> -Warner Springs Monty
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
>>>> To: <whcrs4543 at aol.com>
>>>> Cc: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] The peanut butter & tortilla diet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Don!
>>>>>
>>>>> We're all novices just feeling our way up the trail!  I'm putting my 
>>>>> reply out to the L so that someone might remember the vein that talked 
>>>>> about eating nothing but peanut butter and tortillas. I believe it was 
>>>>> actually done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody recall this topic?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mtnned
>>>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>  From: whcrs4543 at aol.com
>>>>>  To: ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com
>>>>>  Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:44 PM
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Foot stretch or not?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Monte,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  I'm a total novice compared to all you guys! I'm learning so much 
>>>>> just following the chatter.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Have you actually talked to someone who ate nothing but peanut butter 
>>>>> on trail ? Sounds possible....for short periods, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  You going to the big KO in 8 weeks?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Don
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>>>  From: ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com
>>>>>  To: montypct <montypct at gmail.com>; Ikem Freeman 
>>>>> <ikem.freeman at gmail.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
>>>>>  Sent: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 9:40 pm
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Foot stretch or not?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Monte,
>>>>>
>>>>> I routinely carry about 65 pounds over a two week stretch. I walk fast 
>>>>> and
>>>>> relaxed and pound down the trail (gear down for the uphills!). My feet 
>>>>> have
>>>>> never spread. Is it genetic? As you guessed, I use the heaviest 
>>>>> leather
>>>>> stompers I can find. Mine have lasted me 25 years and are still going
>>>>> great-replace the Vibram soles once in a while....
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried trail runners. I used to use them every day about town 
>>>>> and on
>>>>> trail. Then one day I totally twisted my ankle to where it was black 
>>>>> and
>>>>> blue because my ankles were no longer supported and I never went back.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the most important activities an aspiring hiker can do to 
>>>>> prepare for
>>>>> their thru hike is to personally test for themselves all the advise 
>>>>> and
>>>>> current notions offered in hiking circles. As others have said, what 
>>>>> works
>>>>> for one may not work for you. You need to find out by trial and error 
>>>>> what
>>>>> works for you, whether it be no stove, only eating peanut butter, 
>>>>> trail
>>>>> runners, a tarp, or going off the trail to town for resupplies every 3 
>>>>> to 6
>>>>> days. You've got to know why you're out there, your motivations and
>>>>> aspirations, or you may not be out there for long.
>>>>>
>>>>> The trail can be a trial where everyone comes out the other end a 
>>>>> little
>>>>> differently than they went in!
>>>>>
>>>>> Mtnned
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "montypct" <montypct at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>; "Ikem Freeman"
>>>>> <ikem.freeman at gmail.com>; <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:09 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Running Shoes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> So is it the advise that leads to the purchase of runners too big 
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> allows the feet to spread both ways?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ned
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To keep it simple?
>>>>>> I'm pretty sure it's the weight of the body over a long hiking day 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> spreads the feet out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That would be some heavy advise otherwise if it could change the 
>>>>>> shape of
>>>>>> feet..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I take it you aren't going to give trail runners a try.  :)
>>>>>> A lot of us have tried both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> monty
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lightweight Backpacking
>>>>>> The fun goes up when the weight goes down
>>>>>> -Warner Springs Monty
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: <ned at pacificcrestcustombuilders.com>
>>>>>> To: "Ikem Freeman" <ikem.freeman at gmail.com>; <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:52 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Running Shoes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sofar,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now there's another concept that doesn't fit with my experiences 
>>>>>>> along
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Crest and Divide and 45 years of carrying a heavy pack,
>>>>>>> my feet haven't changed a half-size in all those years! But, then, I
>>>>>>> chose
>>>>>>> not to hike in 'runners.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mtnned
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Ikem Freeman" <ikem.freeman at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Running Shoes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Great re-cap, Brian.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One more very important point ... plan on the size of your foot to 
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> wider
>>>>>>>> and longer as you go.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before I started my 08 hike, I wore size 10.5 USA. My first pair of
>>>>>>>> Montrails were size 11.5, and my second were size 13 ( I got them 
>>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>>> 1,000 mile mark, near Bridgeport, CA.) and they fit really good.
>>>>>>>> O. Ikem Sofar
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Brian Lewis <brianle8 at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As a side note, all of this stuff gets talked about again and 
>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>> here, and on various forums, such as 
>>>>>>>>> http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum,
>>>>>>>>> or http://www.backcountryforum.com/ or
>>>>>>>>> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/ 
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> As another side note, the only way to decide what's right for you 
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> to try out most likely solutions; I don't propose what works for 
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> personally as the one, true and universal solution, and suggest 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> you be skeptical of anyone that does.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The issue of goretex shoes is one that like so many things is a 
>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>> of personal preference (and opinion ...).  The anti-goretex camp 
>>>>>>>>> says
>>>>>>>>> that they take longer to dry out, and in stream crossings, wet 
>>>>>>>>> snow,
>>>>>>>>> or continuous rain, they *will* get wet.   I'm in this camp, and 
>>>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>>>> previous, use goretex socks if I want the benefits of goretex.   I 
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> a pair of goretex shoes once that fairly quickly developed holes,
>>>>>>>>> which IMO made them a bit like having a screen door on a submarine 
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> water gets in, but has a harder time getting back out.    Of 
>>>>>>>>> course
>>>>>>>>> not everyone agrees with this viewpoint.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ken Powers already gave IMO a great response to the long list 'o
>>>>>>>>> things-that-are-to-feared about trail runners.  My take:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Slip and Falls - no
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frostbite - not even close. Trail runners worked better in snow 
>>>>>>>>> than I
>>>>>>>>> had expected, you get used to it
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> too many rocks in the shoes - depends on the shoe (or boot), and
>>>>>>>>> whether you use gaiters, and whether your shoes develop holes ...
>>>>>>>>> bottom line, not a big issue for me, and my shoes develop holes 
>>>>>>>>> faster
>>>>>>>>> than most.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plantar Fasciitis - I did have a mild case of this before starting 
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the trail, but got custom orthodics.  Yes, a shoe with a firmer 
>>>>>>>>> sole
>>>>>>>>> might help here (?), but didn't turn out to be a problem for me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Achilles Tendonitis - no
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ripped or torn uppers- somewhat, but so what?  I used the infamous
>>>>>>>>> Golite shoes, and they developed holes along the way, but I still 
>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>> 500+ miles per pair.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> sole separations/delaminations - Never had this, but I don't try 
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> get thousands of miles on a single pair (as some people do try to)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sprained/Strained Ankles/Tendons - no.  Some people feel that 
>>>>>>>>> boots
>>>>>>>>> are important to support the ankle, some (Jardine) feel that boots
>>>>>>>>> enable a person to keep hiking despite weak ankles. Dunno, I guess 
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> ankles are fairly strong, never an issue for me.  As Ken said, 
>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>> your base weight within reason, plus you will indeed really 
>>>>>>>>> strengthen
>>>>>>>>> all the associated muscles, etc over time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> jammed toes from soft uppers - no.  Note that thru-hikers tend to 
>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>> shoes one or more sizes too big; with so much leeway, it's not 
>>>>>>>>> likely
>>>>>>>>> a problem, unless you're fearing something falling on top of the 
>>>>>>>>> toe
>>>>>>>>> area (?).  I never had a problem with that either.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> numerous blisters from too roomy a shoe - No.  Like many people 
>>>>>>>>> (boots
>>>>>>>>> or shoes), I had some blisters early on, and as someone else 
>>>>>>>>> pointed
>>>>>>>>> out, your feet toughen up as you walk.  At some point it feels 
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> you have hooves rather than feet, nothing seems to bother them.
>>>>>>>>> I'm of the opinion that non-waterproof shoes, ones that breathe 
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> well (quick to get wet, but quick also to dry out) are ideal, less
>>>>>>>>> prone to blisters than boots that create a closed-in moist
>>>>>>>>> environment.  Of course, sandal advocates likely look at my shoes 
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> the same way that I look at boots!  :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bottom line is --- try it.   Find some local snow if you can, 
>>>>>>>>> bring
>>>>>>>>> spare socks, find some reasonably challenging terrain. Decide for
>>>>>>>>> yourself if the lower weight and/or better ventilation make shoes 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> right approach for you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brian Lewis / Gadget '08
>>>>>>>>> http://postholer.com/brianle
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>  Pct-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
>>>>>>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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