[pct-l] Tents....I know, I know, beating a dead horse

[Stephen]

Don't have any condensation issues with a tarp.  Can stand up inside if so 
choose.... Has no walls so can see out very nicely set high or low. Can 
change clothes underneath just fine thanks.   Does not absorb water, and 
dries quickly.  Does not require poles, nor even stakes (though I will 
probably bring four UL stakes for my trip). Makes an excellent ground sheet 
in fine weather.  Any kind of bug net can be rigged underneath or on top. 
Doesn't smell like the inside of a tent.  Sleeping bag seems less clamy in 
the morning not requiring consant airing out (though I do it at lunch break 
ussually anyway).  Plenty of room to safely cook, write, sit up, lay down, 
sort gear, and unlimited star gazing when used as ground sheet.  Four people 
could sit under my small tarp and play cards if they wanted to, or a trail 
friend could hangout for a cup of tea in the evening or along the trail, 
coffee in the morning.  It's all good and very versatile, pretty light 
weight, and nothing to break except maybe pulling out a corner grommet in 
which case you simply tie the guy line around the corner of the tarp and 
place at a low corner if necesarry, but I haven't pulled grommets out yet. 
As far as bathtub floors...  I've been in some incliment weather where you 
would have had a bathtub allright.  I consider them water resistent, not 
waterproof. and any water that gets into the tent will have a tendency to 
stay there so one must mop it up with something, and once a tent is damp 
they tend to stay that way, if not sopping.  I can enjoy my coffee in 
morning and pack my gear under the tarp, then don my slicker and get ready 
to travel by simply breaking down the tarp, give it a couple shakes and 
carry on the outside of the pack.  No sopping 1/2 lb heavier tent to roll up 
and haul until I can dry it, or worse have to deal with the next night.  My 
bug net rolls up pretty small too and doesn't seem to hold any moisture 
beyond a few drops, so no big deal there.  I think some folks just feel more 
secure in a nylon cacoon, but are actually shutting themselves in from the 
reason for being out there in the first place.  It's just my opinion so 
don't take it personal like.  Hike with what you are comfortable with first 
and formost, but I do suggest trying different methods, and if a tarp is new 
and you intend to go thru-hiking with one, you need to know how to rig it 
for rain, wind, both, and also as a lean to in severe weather.  This you 
cannot do with your tent.  I think in the long run the most importnat thing 
is that one enjoys the walk.  If one doesn't enjoy the walking one might 
want to consider why and make some adjutments.  One way over the years I've 
come to consider my gear is if I really need it and what type of outing it 
is supposed to be.  If it's all about hiking and the walk I think about the 
gear I will be carrying all day every day and only using in camp for short 
periods.  This is why I switched to a bivy, and rainy weather and bug storms 
is why I switched more recently to a bug net and tarp.  On high altitude 
crosscountry trips I'd probably go back to a bivy as finding a bivy site is 
a lot easier and warmer above timberline, and these tend to be shorter 
adventures where the car is often no more than a day or two's walk away if 
the weather goes sour.  But committing to a long section or thru-hike, I 
want versatility, and I aint hauling no tent, singlewall, double, paper or 
plastic, and all its zippers, poles, stakes and stuff sacks.  My one person 
tent that I got a new pole for and have not used in about eight years or 
more, weighs 3-1/2 lbs IIRC.  My winter tent I think 5 lbs or more.  The 
bivy slightly over 2lbs including plastic sheet. And the current plastic 
tarp, big bug net and tyvek sheet come in at 1-1/2 lbs.  I may swtich to a 
light silnylon tarp and use a single size bug net and then be at about 1 lb, 
maybe less.  Then I switch to a 1 lb pack and I just saved 4lbs off a 14 lb 
base weight besause my light mountaineering pack weighs 4 lbs, and I'm at 
ten pounds.  Now I am less than my ussual photo kit day pack and a hip belt 
becomes less important unless haulling water.  And all this to me adds up to 
more walking enjoyment covering miles more easily, safely, and with more 
energy to fight off all these dogs and llamas I keep hearing about. 
Goodness me, I could care less about stream crossings now and I'm practicing 
with my poles to poke these beasties in the eye on the first thrust... I've 
got a couple good ideas for Mtn Bikers, and you don't even want to know and 
I aint tellin what happens to dirt bike pirates. We all know what they used 
to do to pirates eh?  Just watch out for the thin stainless wire stretched 
accross the trail a few miles south of Mt Pacifico (about neck high sitting 
on your dirt bike).


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Siechert" <carlito at gmail.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tents....I know, I know, beating a dead horse


> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com <
> diane at santabarbarahikes.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know why anybody would carry nearly 4lbs of tent when 1lb
>> will do the job wonderfully. I carried the Gossamer Gear One tent
>>
> You're right; I'm a moron for suggesting something different than you 
> carry.
> But you should be realistic in your comparisons. If a maximum weight of 3
> pounds 4 ounces for the T1 (which can be trimmed in several ways) is 
> "nearly
> 4lbs," then you ought to be honest in describing a Gossamer Gear One plus 
> a
> bug bivy (or a tarp plus a bivy plus a bug bivy), which comes to something
> like 24 ounces (I suppose one might say "nearly 2 pounds"). Rather than a
> 1:4 weight advantage as you suggest, the real difference is closer to 1:2.
>
> For the difference, you get a double-wall tent, which considerably reduces
> condensation issues in Washington. It's roomy enough inside to sit up, to
> change clothes, and to sort/organize gear within a bug-proof, waterproof
> enclosure. Its bathtub floor makes it easier to keep gear dry.
>
> I'm not dissing tarps or bivies, which work very well for many thru
> hikers--just pointing out that UL tents do provide some additional
> convenience and comfort for the additional weight, and "why anybody would
> carry nearly 4lbs [or 3 lbs] of tent." HYOH.
>
> Cheers,
> Carl
> 1977 Kelty Kid
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