[pct-l] Tents...."BIVY SACK vs TARP"

[Stephen]

I hiked at least eight seasons in the Sierra with the OR Advanced Bivy. 
Nice product.  Yes it adds a nice layer and upgrade to a 3 season 
lightweight sleeping bag, and adds a layer of protection for those of us who 
like Thermarests ( I used  4mil clear poly sheet cut to the foot print of 
the bivy also).  I really dislike having bug mesh right on my face so the 
hoops of the Advanced really worked nice for me, and I could write in my 
journal or read a little lying on my back or front side. I can also get in 
and out of clothing in it on frosty or wet times if necesarry.  Also, the 
design of that bivy allow one to fold part of the hood over the end pole 
makes a nice large space over the head area witha mesh closure that also 
adds breathability and warmth for an almost sleeping out feeling.  I think 
the new ones even have a foot zip to add more ventilation.  I've only 
expereinced minor condensation and I thought the goretex breathed well. 
Never got wet in rain.  But, and I say BUT, in the eight or more seasons I 
used it, I never had to deal with incliment weather, and only once got stuck 
with it in all day rain.  That Sucked with a capital "S".  Can't cook in it. 
You drag your wet self in it, and get wet as a soon as you climb out to 
wizz.  Your larger gear items must stay out.  Mind that I say I never got in 
bad weather, but I had plenty of morning and late evening rains.  Shoes can 
come in the top if not too tall, but if you by chance leave them out they 
will get soaked as happened to me by surprize night or early predawn rains 
etc...  Oh, one nice thing with the Advanced Bivy before I forget is it is 
absolutely bug free.  No Skeets, and no ants.  When I used it at lower 
elevations in warmer weather I just sleep out of my bag or partially.  Never 
had the sweat sack issue.
Now, this last season and a couple seasons ago I got rain in bunches and bad 
windy sideways rain issues and was quite pleased to have had a tarp instead. 
Pitch the tarp in your wet or damp hiking gear and climb under.  Now you 
have a big dry space in which to start getting organized, get warm or cook a 
meal.  I carried a over the bed green skeeter net and I've been able to set 
thatup underneath and still cook.  It also helps keepoff blowing rain if not 
too heavy.  The nastier the weather the lower goes the tarp, but even when 
set as a lean-to in horizontal nasty ass weather I was able tosit up and 
enjoy a cup of hot tea and keep warm until things layed down.  This last 
season I had just constant sprinkling light rains.  the kind that made me 
re-think using a bivy.  The tarp came into it's own as I could work with my 
camera gear, cook, look around and really enjoy being out there so much 
more.  I was using the minmum size tarp, 5x8 ft and though I kept checking 
the foot of my sleeping bag for under spray and dampness, I was warm and dry 
through a couple nights of this.  I use trees, rocks, my hiking poles set at 
varrying angles (I don't even shorten them as this is what wears out twist 
lock types) and any part of the environment to set up a reasonably fast 
shelter.  Not so fast if I have time to rig the bug room first.  I use and 
have been using for some time the green Mombasa double bed size rectangluar 
travel net.  It has a lot of hang rings and can be made to conform to many 
shapes and is light weight for how big it is. I just use a couple rocks and 
my gear to hold down and shape the side walls any way I want, and I'm kinda 
picky. Then I just climb under one of the edges.  A friend had a big version 
of the white material and bugs got through it, and also the green is much 
more see through in day and night.
As far as weight, the Advanced Bivy is just over 2 lbs. The net I've been 
using combined with the green plastic tarp from REI is 1-1/2 lbs.  I changed 
from the plastic sheet to Tyvek and saved a couple more ounces.  The plastic 
tarp is an awsome ground sheet on pokey ground ifthe weather is nice. 
However, I am still undecided whether Iwill build a tarp/tent or ultra light 
tarp and use a suplimental bug net.  Oneof my ideas is to just add longer 
netting to the sides of the tarp/tent so I can pitch it higher in nice 
weather and not have to set up two individual peices of gear.
Anyway, I'm shooting for 18 oz max weight for sheltering which will offer a 
degree of simplicity and max comfort and room, probably lessthan that since 
I don't carry tarptent poles, just my hiking poles.  So far I've never 
carried stakes either but would probably carry four for use where moving 
rocks disturbs the natural ground cover.  Just a thought.
Anyway, these are my current oppinions based on my personal experience.  Yes 
a bivy is fast easy, relatively light of weight etc etc, but I wouldn't 
consider it a shelter.  Big difference.  You aren't gonna cook and dry 
things out in a bivy whereas this can be done with a tarp.  I've hiked 
plenty with tents also and can't say as I like them.  More work than a tarp 
in my opinion and don't much like the way they smell.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "mcintyre johnson" <johnson.mcintyre at gmail.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Tents....I know, I know, beating a dead horse


> This is an excellent discussion on an important issue -- a horse that
> deserves to be beaten regularly because things change.
>
> Would very much appreciate thoughts on bivys. My current favorite shelter
> solution is a Integral Designs bivy (Unishelter, smidge under 2 lbs).
> http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=776&CFID=366171&CFTOKEN=76400633&mainproducttypeid=1
>
>
> Reasons: 1) mindlessly simple & fast set up when tired end of day, 2)
> footprint allows sleep almost anywhere, 3) Head room has enough space
> (believe it or not) for me to read and write with headlamp, 4) eVent 
> fabric
> really works and have very minor condensation, 5) seems like it adds 15+
> degrees to night warmth, allowing me to bridge cold weather with my 20
> degree bag.
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