[pct-l] Rude behavior in Warner Springs

Fri May 2 15:14:04 CDT 2008

I think this is a great discussion!  But having not heard the stories or 
been to the ko, I think it needs to be spelled out what behavior is bad.  No 
names need to be mentioned.
E2010
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "montypct" <montypct at gmail.com>
To: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>; "'PCT-L'" 
<pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rude behavior in Warner Springs


>>>>We have to look at everyone as individuals, and not label entire groups
>> based on the behavior of just a few. Those few should be dealt with by
>> those
>> they offend, on the spot, and the consequences they receive for their
>> infraction should be commensurate with the wrong doing.  We can only hope
>> that the consequences don't permanently alter things for everyone else.
>>
> Me too exactly on this one.
>
>>Maybe we have to look at everyone as individuals and not label the groups,
>>but others are not doing so.
>
> So far this season I have seen mild cases of these "groupings", 
> "prejudice",
> and "bigotry" among a few interactions this week concerning Blacks,
> Mexicans, Rich People, so someone else obviously didn't have to look at
> everyone as individuals, and those are the ones to watch out for.  Those 
> who
> don't know and the understand individuals in the group are quick to group
> hikers together as all the same and just like Bad News sells best, place 
> the
> action of 1/400th of the hiker population (this means one hiker) on the
> grouping as the label for all PCT thru-hikers.
>
> Kind of like people judged the PCT-L by that weirdo troll from last year,
> and the PCT-L has a lot more members than the Class of 2008.
>
> So it sounds like we cant do a thing, just a hope that people know what we
> are probably in for this year befor it gets to them and they are well
> grounded and prepared to do as you suggest, however I prefer different
> responses for the repeat offenders that involve putting the hot rock in 
> the
> offenders pocket and keeping it there.
>
> Repeat offenders are the ones doing the damage.
> I feel obligated to pass on the names and actions of repeat offenders,
> especially when asked, to friends that might also get hurt by someone not
> able to control their Spiritual Bowels in public.
>
> It is the right of every good person to simply say "Be Nice or Be Gone".
> It is a loving action to help someone who needs to say that, when asked.
>
> So much to a perfect world.  2008 is already in the hole in a couple 
> places
> I know.
>
>
>
> "Those few should be dealt with by those
>> they offend, on the spot, and the consequences they receive for their
>> infraction should be commensurate with the wrong doing"
>
>
> Warner Springs Monty
> Pacific Crest Trail 2650 Miles .....Again.....and Again
> Sign my Guestbook
> www.trailjournals.com/monty
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> To: "'montypct'" <montypct at gmail.com>; "'PCT-L'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Rude behavior in Warner Springs
>
>
>> Good people have been trying to get bad people to behave better for
>> centuries, and it hasn't solved the problem yet, so I don't think there's
>> much we can do to change them on the PCT.
>>
>> I think we have to accept that in any large group of people, you are 
>> going
>> to have a spectrum of attitudes and personalities, including those we 
>> find
>> distasteful and unacceptable. There is no etiquette police on the trail,
>> and
>> no one will pull their ticket and send them home if they misbehave.  They
>> may get kicked out of businesses and hostel homes, and they might get in
>> trouble with law enforcement, but there is absolutely no means to keep
>> them
>> off the trail due to the lack of enforcement out there.
>>
>> We have to look at everyone as individuals, and not label entire groups
>> based on the behavior of just a few. Those few should be dealt with by
>> those
>> they offend, on the spot, and the consequences they receive for their
>> infraction should be commensurate with the wrong doing.  We can only hope
>> that the consequences don't permanently alter things for everyone else.
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net 
>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> On Behalf Of montypct
>> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:16 AM
>> To: PCT-L
>> Subject: [pct-l] Rude behavior in Warner Springs
>>
>> Because of a few previous responses to a trail angel's previous post a
>> while
>> back I will leave out what specifics I have heard.
>>
>> I have received these three questions to my previous post.
>>
>>>What prompted this question?
>>
>>>Why you ask?
>>
>>>Any examples of what you're hearing?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> All verbal not nice behavior in Warner Springs.
>>
>>
>>
>> One in the mini-mart
>>
>>
>>
>> One in the post office lobby toward another hiker
>>
>>
>>
>> FOUR in the post office to Denise and her new clerk.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ALSO Closer to the border I heard a lot of talk about a couple incidents
>> of
>> bad behavior including one incident involving Rangers.  We need these
>> Rangers.
>>
>>
>>
>> ALSO we have already had an incident in Section E
>>
>>
>>
>> Here, I am again leaving out lots of details so as not to cross the lines
>> that friends here on the list have suggested.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to hear from others (on or off list) what they might know. 
>> A
>> couple of years ago we had some bad behavior work it's way ALL the way up
>> the trail.  There was a lot of bad PR for hikers put out, and some still
>> has
>> not been healed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Solutions???
>>
>>
>>
>> Monty
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A few vague "I saw something similar" reported hikers zeroing in Warner
>> Springs.
>>
>> Both to locals and to hikers.
>>
>> Warner Springs Monty
>> Pacific Crest Trail 2650 Miles .....Again.....and Again
>> Sign my Guestbook
>> www.trailjournals.com/monty
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>
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