[pct-l] Let's Hear From The 2007 Thru Hikers...

Thu Feb 28 20:12:59 CST 2008

Hi Donna and everyone else

>argue the most that there is no ADZ-related crowding problem are either organizers of the event 

I hope everyone understands that we are all pretty much friends who have known each other a while.
When I first met Donna and Jeff I told them that I want to be like them when I grow up.
I just don't want to have to work as hard as them.

> As Monty notes, there were a few non-hikers in the crowd 

I was joking that people would WANT to be at your place bad enough to fake being hikers.  I left before your friends arrived 
Memorial Day.  You were packed with hikers only the days I was there.  Maybe 35.  I saw the REAL crowd and I heard rumor there were more on the trail just behind us.  My friend and I ran for cover.

I'm not denying that large groups of people congragate on the trail.  I saw a dozen in 2004 a few days after the Kick Off (Barrel Springs) and a dozen at Rodriguez and six camping at the 3rd gate last year a week before the Kick Off.  I slept on the trail that night.  If there's bigger camping groups than that (on the trail) I don't think that's good either..

I do agree with you.  I wanted to camp all three times and 12 is too much.  

>be armed with the facts

Are those facts single load or automatic.
The rest of of what I said.  Just what Mike asked for, but from 2800 miles (4 times) instead of 700 miles of Southern California.
I think I've recalled it pretty well.  I did not report what I did not see.

Trust the message, and not the just-been-shot Kick Off Organizer Messenger     :0)
If that disqualifies me, please delete this email.

Findings:
Big Crowds in Towns (Party!), not on trails........... usually 

PS  I don't see any sides here.  I do see something very simple for all of us.  If you see hiking close to the Kick Off date as destructive, please do what Donna is implying here.  Do not hike during those dates.  I'm starting Monday the 14th  
.................................... with a group   :0)  (long story)

If you see the Kick Off as wrong, destructive, having one or lots of bad people organizing it, to attend it sounds less than intellegent.  
If enough people (all of them) do not come?  What Kick Off?
Just let me know so I don't hold dinner for you.

Warner Springs Monty
Of the Trail
On the Trail
By the Trail
and
For the Trail

Donna Saufley dsaufley at sprynet.com 
Thu Feb 28 13:47:02 CST 2008 

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It isn't lost on me that the people who argue the most that there is no
ADZ-related crowding problem are either organizers of the event or live far,
far away.  None of them stay in one place all season and monitor the hiker
traffic like I do, and have for the past 11 years.  The gathering places
like here and Kennedy Meadows clearly show the numbers, whereas it's
difficult to take snapshots elsewhere and glean the same information, since
some other towns are large enough to spread everyone out.  Standing by the
trail and counting is another way of monitoring; in '05 or '06 Meadow Mary
did just that - and reported counting 66 hikers crossing Pines to Palms Hwy
in one afternoon.

The 150 that start on or near the KO arrive at Hiker Heaven within a week of
each other, with numbers that week of 40+, 50+, and 65 at last year's peak.
Twenty-one (21) hikers who had been camped together all arrived at once,
someone bringing their packs in by truck load. Others came in ones and twos.
As Monty notes, there were a few non-hikers in the crowd last Memorial Day
weekend, but they were not counted in my total.  The absolute peak is
reliably four weeks after the Kick-Off, then almost shuts off like a faucet
(albeit one that leaks until July :o)  

In '07 there were no hiker stays here longer than one or two zero days
(excepting the sick and injured).  There were more near-o's and one day
zeros than in the past - the Sierra's were calling!  When the snow is
deeper, they hang around more, which underscores the point that the ADZ (or
the week before) may not be the optimal time to depart Campo and may force
you to take more zeros.

So what might these numbers mean to hikers?  My husband left Campo prior to
the KO in '06 to avoid the herd.  When he got to Idyllwild, he was injured.
He stayed at the Tahquitz Inn for one night, but then they had to kick him
out of his room because they had a church group arriving that had
reservations.  The point being that another large group arriving may not be
able to get that motel stay they were hoping for.  In '05 with the huge
snows in the south, the hotels in Idyllwild could not fit all the hikers
into rooms, and when a big storm hit they kindly resorted to putting them in
the lobby, etc.  Grocery stores in small rural towns have run out of food
items, and post office staff are ready to, well, go postal.  

How will all of this affect you?  Well, that's for everyone to decide for
themselves.  I know that the allure of the Kick-Off is very strong, but be
armed with the facts.  Regardless of your decision, you're all welcome to
stay here, but if I can't remember your name Memorial Day weekend, please
forgive me. 

L-Rod

   _____  

From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of montypct
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:14 AM
To: PCT-L
Subject: [pct-l] Let's Hear From The 2007 Thru Hikers...

Big Bear hanging out.  I could harldy walk and stayed a few days. They just
kept coming.  25 or so when I was there.

2007 

Rodriguez Water Tank was crowded (12 campers)6 days before the Kick Off.

Three of us went ½ mile further to camp.

The Third Gate had about 8 congregating but 6 staying there.  There are 3
established tent sites.

I bivied up on the trail a mile or so later.  There's not many places to
camp up there after the third gate.

For the rest of the trail the biggest clump I can remember on the trail was
six  people except at Deep Creek.  There was also an informal group of seven
of us who were hiking together an occasional minute here and there.  We
chose that clump.

The Warner Springs Post Office was Swamped with one less employee, but a
little less traffic than usual.  Still too much to wish on one person who
has been taking care of us thru-hikers for 20 years.

The BIG groups were in the towns and at the trail Angel's places.

Warner Springs the Wednesday before the kick Off.  Had ton's

Big Bear
. Nature's Inn was full and a lot of hikers were staying at the
Motel 6.

Wrightwood didn't seem that crowded.

Other than the Kick Off, the biggest group of people I saw were at the
Sauffley's, by far.  If you've been there you would understand why.

I think people are just posing as hikers so they can stay there.  My hiking
partner had foot problems.  We stayed an extra day or two.

Missed the Anderson's this year, but it sounded like a couple of hikers
moved in permanently and a lot of stayed multiple days.

Hiker Town  10-12 of us daytime, but a lot of us moved on.

I saw very few in Tehachapi

But a big crowd at Meadow Ed's Birthday party for a few days at Kennedy
Meadows.

We got the last two rooms at our Motel in Independence.

I was able to get a room at VVR

Mammoth wasn't crowded

15 hikers at Tuolumne Meadows in very early July.

What was YOUR impression of "The Herd"? Was it a trampling army, or was
The Trail as busy as the JMT on a typical summer weekend?

This is a set up.  Are you trying to prove a point?  We all know the answer
to that one.  :0)

>What was YOUR impression of "The Herd"?

"HIKERS CLUMPING OFF TRAIL"

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