[pct-l] saying no to alcohol

[Bob Sartini]

How true. It's not just tables either. Every AT shelter has alcohol burn 
rings. One or two shelters burn every year too. Vandals? I think not. Must 
be inept weekenders not all pro thruhikers. Right.

"EVERYTHING is in walking distance,"
    ......Bamboo Bob
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "hayden wilson" <hydnwilson at yahoo.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] saying no to alcohol


As an observer of stoves, rather than a user (I haven't carried a stove in 
over 7000 miles), I have a few thoughts on stoves in SOCAL. I have a photo 
of the cooking table at Muskrat Creek Shelter (mile 78.2 on the AT). The 
table is about 3'X6' and is made of what looks like 4"X8" timbers. I can 
count well over 50 stove rings burned into the table top. A couple that I 
actually measured were nearly one half inch deep. It takes a lot of burning 
fuel and a lot of flames to do go that deep into solid wood. Not too 
dangerous in NC in the spring, but with the heat of SOCAL alcohol is much 
more volatile, the grass drier, and winds stronger. That said, alcohol 
stoves are not the only stoves that have flareup and not all alcohol stoves 
( I probably own 10 of them) flare up. I was never able to start my old 
Whisperlite without a towering inferno to warm it up and know of at least 
one person on the AT named Flamethrower for that reason.
So, maybe not just an alcohol fuel problem, but rather a "responsible use," 
and a "stove selection" problem. Or maybe do as Radar did in the south and 
modify stove use in the more fireprone areas.
Hayden
--- On Thu, 12/11/08, Sean Nordeen <sean at lifesadventures.net> wrote:

From: Sean Nordeen <sean at lifesadventures.net>
Subject: [pct-l] saying no to alcohol
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 7:16 PM

The only truely safe method is NO Stove.  But that isn't a realistic
expectation to expect everyone to try it.  Many in the UL community have 
been
moving that direrction in their never ending quest to cut ounces.  I've
personally done a week long trip without a stove so I know it is certainly
doable.

I'm a long time SoCal resident so I have a good idea of fire conditions
along the PCT.  I've used Alcohol, Esbit, cannister, and wood burning stoves
successfully and safely.  But I know not to use them in the high wind 
conditions
we often get and to maker sure vegetiation is a lot farther away then would 
be
normal in a wetter environment.  In the right conditions, dry vegetation 3 
feet
away from your stove can light up (and some past PCT hikers have discovered 
this
the hard way).  Unfortunately, too many people from back east don't have a
proper appreciation just how easily our dry vegetation burns.  And during
certain fire restrictions, only  cannister stoves are legal since alcohol 
stoves
are considered open flame since they have no shut off valve.

That said, banning alcohol stoves isn't going to happen.  So, rather then
that, educating people how to safely use them (and when not to) would be 
better
and more realistic goal.  Since a large portion of  hikers do attend the
ADZPCTKO, that would be the best place to do it.  Personally, I think the
Caldera Cone alcohol stove is the safest of the alcohol stoves in terms of 
fire
safety since it is closer to a closed system then most windscreen/stove 
setups.
But even its not perfect and there are times when you'd be better off not
cooking at all.

-Sean

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
with the high fire danger that is persistent throughout southern California
i cant help but think that it is time for the PCT community to take a stand
against the use of alcohol stoves, at least thru the dry sections of
California, All PCT hikers should really think about alternatives that would
reduce the chances of fires starting because of accidents with our alcohol
stoves. comments? opinions?
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