[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 4, Issue 21

Sat Apr 5 16:11:22 CDT 2008

i just signed up for the "digest".  i am planning on hiking the pct in one
year and am starting to research it through books, blogs and the collective
experiences of those of have done it and those who have failed.  i am not
sure who i am even replying too but i was wondering how i could get involved
and who i could begin to talk to about the logistical aspects of food and
route planning.  thanks.
-brian

On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 1:58 PM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Closure (sean bowers)
>   2. Re: Hiker Cliques (Hiker97)
>   3. Internal stuff (jomike at cot.net)
>   4. Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment (Georgi Heitman)
>   5. Re: Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment (Patrick Beggan)
>   6. Re: Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment (Donna Saufley)
>   7. Re: Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment (Andrea Dinsmore)
>   8. Re: Early hours pee tricks (Albach)
>   9. Trail Injuries (Barry Teschlog)
>  10. Fwd:  Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment (Georgi Heitman)
>  11. Re: Fwd:  Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
>      (trail-name-here)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
> From: sean bowers <pro_style18 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Closure
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <961735.54560.qm at web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> For the sake of brevity, I intended to summarize last years numerous
> events.  There is more specific information I could provide you with
> regardging the doctors vist in reference to the first metatarsal and planter
> fascia itself.  You are welcome to email me for more details.  There is
> always a possibility that you stand correct in your last statement.  Thank
> you for your opinion.
>
> Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net> wrote:
>  I think the message from the various posts is that a big toe that cannot
> flex 90 degrees is NOT a symptom of some other major foot problem.
>
> I'd double check the doctor's diagnosis.
>
>
> Tortoise
>
> <> He who finishes last, wins! <>
>
>
> sean bowers wrote:
> > Keep in mind every foot is different. You can have an inflexible big
> > toe and be just fine. For example, an overweight adult could say they
> > were diagnosed with diabetes due to being overweight. Does this mean
> > every overweight person is going to get diabetes? Definitely not. That
> > is just the way the human body works and that can go for any body part
> > for any reason. For my particular situation, this appeared to be the
> > problem with my case.
> >
> >
> > "When you grab your big toe you are suppose to be able to bend it
> >
> > upwards
> >
> > towards your head more than 90 degrees. I painfully can bend it just
> >
> > shy of
> >
> > 45 degrees"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think I can at least somewhat guess what you went through based on my
> >
> > own
> >
> > related emotional roller coaster recently.
> >
> >
> >
> > After (hopefully) figuring out how to deal with little toe bunions last
> >
> > summer, I had some heel pain recently and was diagnosed with Plantar
> >
> > Fasciitis just over a month ago. I got fitted for orthotics and am just
> >
> > starting to extend my walking regime again. And I'll start at Campo
> >
> > late
> >
> > this month.
> >
> >
> >
> > I've not heard the one about bending your big toe before. Since there
> >
> > are
> >
> > various intervening joints (hip, knee, ankle), I'm finding your
> >
> > description
> >
> > above a little ambiguous. Is the foot flat on the floor and thus
> >
> > bending
> >
> > the big toe more than 90 degrees relative to the floor, or ... ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Just curious. My case has been mild so far, but I'm naturally
> >
> > concerned
> >
> > that one or another foot issue will force me off the trail in the same
> >
> > way.
> >
> > I'm not concerned about mental/emotional prep here --- what happens
> >
> > happens,
> >
> > and I'll just have to deal with it. But if there's anything else I can
> >
> > physically or otherwise better prepare for, I want to maximize my odds.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for sharing your (no doubt very frustrating) story.
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's
> > offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
> > _______________________________________________ Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
> Total Access, No Cost.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri,  4 Apr 2008 10:16:34 -0700
> From: Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hiker Cliques
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <e8fefd21.9e09.42ea.975b.93821488f130 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> L-Rod writes: Social bonding is a really powerful thing, and we see
> "cliques" all the time, whether the members of the clique realize they are
> in one or not.  Separated from their clique, they are like fish out of
> water, and don't
> assimilate easily into a new group (perhaps the new group puts out subtle,
> unconscious barriers to potential new members).
> ----------------------------------
> Switchback replies: That is why I only hang around Trail Pirates and hard
> core hiker trash.  Those are the people who will be at the Warner Springs
> Resort dinners on April 23 and 24.  No problem.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:50:24 -0700
> From: <jomike at cot.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Internal stuff
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <F4733ED48C01412CAC08C6768C547D98 at arewethereyePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Can anyone tell me if Epson Salts does any good for internal type
> injuries: strains, twists, etc.
>
> Thanks,
>
> are we there yet
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:35:26 -0700
> From: "Georgi Heitman" <bobbnweav at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>        <2a5b10b50804041135j406e3036va25463cf677b41f3 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> We've pretty much moved on to other important issues, but just wanted to
> say
> that I have just now weighed my Mary Jane-style Crocs.  I wear a woman's
> size 8, and the pair of them weigh in a 8.8 ozs.  And that's with 7 of
> these
> little charm-type do-hickies in each one.
> Don't know it Mary Janes come in men's sizes or not.
> FireFly
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:49:26 -0700
> From: Patrick Beggan <meta474 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
> To: Georgi Heitman <bobbnweav at gmail.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <DB69A1D3-5415-4B36-BB77-8417A7500E11 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> women's size 8 is going to be tiny compared to my extra-wide size 13s
> ("civilian" size, probably bigger on trail). That would account for
> the difference in ounces. Although 8 vs 0 (for not bringing them) is
> still a sizeable difference.
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Georgi Heitman wrote:
>
> > We've pretty much moved on to other important issues, but just
> > wanted to say
> > that I have just now weighed my Mary Jane-style Crocs.  I wear a
> > woman's
> > size 8, and the pair of them weigh in a 8.8 ozs.  And that's with 7
> > of these
> > little charm-type do-hickies in each one.
> > Don't know it Mary Janes come in men's sizes or not.
> > FireFly
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 11:27:39 -0800
> From: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
> To: "'Georgi Heitman'" <bobbnweav at gmail.com>,   <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <001301c89689$f27e7980$6501a8c0 at MainMachine>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="windows-1250"
>
> Probably not, but if they do, they would go well with the blue toenail
> polish some of the guys were sporting!
>
> L-Rod
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Georgi Heitman
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 10:35 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
>
> We've pretty much moved on to other important issues, but just wanted to
> say
> that I have just now weighed my Mary Jane-style Crocs.  I wear a woman's
> size 8, and the pair of them weigh in a 8.8 ozs.  And that's with 7 of
> these
> little charm-type do-hickies in each one.
> Don't know it Mary Janes come in men's sizes or not.
> FireFly
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:08:17 -0700
> From: "Andrea Dinsmore" <zaqueltooocool at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
> To: "Georgi Heitman" <bobbnweav at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>        <f2a521470804041308t57ab5ea4pfb64a62b70c77c92 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> This may be a bonehead idea but if you all are so worried about 8 oz for
> crocks to wear when you're in camp.....why don't you just go bare foot ??
>
> PCT MOM
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 15:51:24 -0500
> From: Albach <ralbach at austin.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Early hours pee tricks
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net, meta474 at gmail.com, dsaufley at sprynet.com
> Message-ID: <47F694CC.7090306 at austin.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Regarding the baggy trick....
>
> I am a "caver" as those who explore caves like to be called. For those
> of us who explore below the ground this question swings both ways.
>
> If in the midst of a very very long crawl little no bigger than your own
> width then there may be little to do but to go where you are and as you
> are: fully clothed. Filth is a relative term as you are at times
> required to squirm through guano. Wet guano is better than dry btw as
> histoplasmosis is nobody's friend.
>
> In highly unique cave environments where the presence of your sloughed
> skin cells can cause measurable impact then you typically dedicate a
> collapsible water bottle to urine and aluminum foil / baggy for the
> feces (also known as a caver burrito).
>
> Enjoy the wide open spaces.
>
> -Robert from Texas
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Trail Injuries
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <985924.85481.qm at web52501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Sage words of advice from L-Rod below.
>
>  I'm a relative (to the 20 something types) old timer at middle/late 30's,
> so perhaps my slow start and lots of early zeros experience was more forced
> on me than by choice, but it worked out very well, with an injury free hike
> (bashed shin while postholing in the Sierra excepted).
>
>  I would suggest to aspiring thru hikers to build into your plans zeros at
> each town stop through at least Mojave  - Warner Springs, Idyllwild, Big
> Bear, Wrightwood, AD and again at Mojave / Techappi.  If you're starting in
> middle to later April, throw in the couple of days for the KO as well.  If
> you start later, I suggest considering a day at Mt. Laguna (take 3 days to
> get there) in lieu of the KO zeros.
>
>  By the time I arrived at Kennedy Meadows, I had taken 10 zeros ( 2 at the
> KO from Mt. Laguna, 1 at WS, 2 in Idyllwild - 1 each at both ways into town,
> 1 each Big Bear and Wrightwood, 2 at AD, 1 at Mojave).  Note for the low
> budget types - it's not too expensive to zero.  Camping at the KO, Idyllwild
> and the wonderful hospitality of Hiker Heaven in AD hold the costs of
> zeroing down.
>
>  The KO, WS and Idyllwild zeros were especially important to helping my
> feet adapt to the trail.  They gave time for the early blisters to partially
> heal and for the skin to toughen up some.
>
>  Another suggestion - let the big mile days come naturally, don't try and
> force them.  Also, artificially pushing beyond your natural limits, be it to
> make a mileage quota or keep up with someone will end up hurting you fairly
> quickly.  I tried keeping up with some younger folks while night hiking the
> aqueduct out of Hiker Town and could feel myself getting run down very
> rapidly.  That 1/4 - 1/3 MPH difference in walking pace made all the
> difference between comfortable hiking and obviously straining myself.
>
>  Bottom line - I'd suggest that a moderate pace with regular zeros for the
> first 3 to 6 weeks will serve you well in gradually hardening your body to
> the rigors of the trail.
>
>  IMHO, YMMV, HYOH, yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah...........
>
>  TC
>
>
>  L-Rod Wrote (4/3 @ 20:43)
>
>  ...Here at Hiker Heaven I've seen a fair number of hikers who had to quit
> hiking because they didn't listen to what they bodies were telling them,
> which is often slow down and/or stop and rest until injuries heal.
>  Because
> they pressed too hard for too long and didn't take care of themselves,
> their
> hikes ended. Stress fractures are the usual culprit, but shin splints and
> plantars also take their toll. It's very sad to see this happen.  It's
> even
> more ironic to see young healthy people who are so full of energy and
> strength but haven't learned how (or why) to pace themselves get sidelined
> with injuries while wizened old timers pass them up, slow but consistent.
> It's the classic case of the tortoise and the hare.
>
> It takes time for the body to adjust to carrying 30 (or more) pounds of
> extra weight, and for all the tendons and ligaments to adjust to walking
> many miles a day. Large muscle groups adapt quickly, but training for
> tendons and ligaments is a much slower process.  You can blow yourself up
> on
> the first day if you don't take it easy and hike within your limits. The
> first days and weeks should be a gradual process of allowing your body to
> adjust.  There's a price to pay for most when they're too fast out the
> gate.....
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
> Total Access, No Cost.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 13:51:34 -0700
> From: "Georgi Heitman" <bobbnweav at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Fwd:  Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>        <2a5b10b50804041351y139c07f3i7da35649acdc93f6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Dunno, ...with my luck with feet, I'd stub a toe on a rock and wind up
> losing a toenail like I did on a piece of coral last summer in Mexico.  Or
> find the only piece of broken glass on the whole trail...been there, done
> that, 8.8 ozs. don't sound too bad by comparison.
> FireFly
>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:01:42 -0700
> From: "trail-name-here" <trail-name-here at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fwd:  Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
> To: "'Georgi Heitman'" <bobbnweav at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <000801c89697$166205d0$43261170$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thankew. :)
>
> That's (IMHO) exactly the point...
>
> Hasta la pasta
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Georgi Heitman
> Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:52 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Crocs are too heavy??? one more comment
>
> Dunno, ...with my luck with feet, I'd stub a toe on a rock and wind up
> losing a toenail like I did on a piece of coral last summer in Mexico.  Or
> find the only piece of broken glass on the whole trail...been there, done
> that, 8.8 ozs. don't sound too bad by comparison.
> FireFly
>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-l at backcountry.net
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 4, Issue 21
> ************************************
>