[pct-l] pct-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
Scott Bechhold
scott at oakridgecabinets.com
Sun Sep 9 15:43:22 CDT 2007
Any word on the availability of water between Humboldt summit and hwy 36?
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of pct-l-request at backcountry.net
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:00 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
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Today's Topics:
1. Recent PCT segment journal (Dana Law)
2. trolls (Karen Lafferty)
3. Empty Water Caches All Over So Cal. (joseph kisner)
4. Re: Bear canisters (Bob Bankhead)
5. Re: Empty Water Caches All Over So Cal.
(jeff.singewald at comcast.net)
6. Mt. Hood National Forest Off-highway Vehicle Travel
Management Plan (Steve Queen)
7. Re: Empty Water Caches All Over So Cal. & trash
(Dcsmith36 at aol.com)
8. Trouble is back in town (Reinhold Metzger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:18:30 -0700
From: "Dana Law" <mindreader at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Recent PCT segment journal
To: PCT-L <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<aab66f460709071118y2e874f08q8c458ea4fb1c6413 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Walked from Kearsarge Pass to Tuolumne Meadows on my 22nd segment of the
PCT. I appreciate the most people who have completed it in sections. I am
on my fifth year and it is the adventure of my lifetime. Here is the blog
post http://pctdanalaw.blogspot.com/
Dana Law
mindreader
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Karen Lafferty <lafferty1 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] trolls
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <524155.66333.qm at web82708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You are so right post about responding or not resonding. Lessons to be
learned and remembered. We must learn to "bite our tongues", knowing the
source.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 11:45:53 -0700
From: joseph kisner <lostonthecrest at hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Empty Water Caches All Over So Cal.
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W80C723799B5FB8D8963E0C0C50 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
My friend has been trail running the PCT, for his upcoming race. He has been
running sections all over So Cal., like he has done so many times before.
The only difference this year are the empty water bottles and trash related
to caches, left for everyone's enjoyment. He said, "the ones that were close
enough to retrieve he went back to clean them up", but in some areas it is
simply a shame. Usually it is us hikers, who complain about the racers
ribbons that get left behind. But this year the talk will be different.
I myself departed late in May from Campo. I had the pleasure to witness ALL
of the random caches, throughout So Cal. Some actually were in styro-foam
coolers that were broken up and spread out by the wind. Others had become
trash piles for the few thoughtless people who came upon them.
I hiked the entire trail, only relying on reliable sources. I admit I did
top off on these sources, but I also kept them organized and clean. But I
will also say I could of hiked the entire trail without any caches. I knew
then as I know now, that some of the people who left some of these caches,
would not return to clean up the mess. One in particular had a sign on it
and I DO remember the name of the person who was leaving these caches, "When
you empty the bottle take it with you" was on the sign. So every bottle had
about a 1/2 inch of water in it. Lets face it, when most people are 50 or
more miles from a trashcan, the last thing they want to do is put that
bottle[s] in their pack and carry it out. It sounds crazy and there are
those who do clean up after us, but the proof was right there.
I believe that if you do not maintain your cache you are degrading our
wilderness, and only creating a pile of trash for others to enjoy. A act of
kindness, should be thoughtful to all.
Ps. Do not get rid of the oasis, I love a beer and a lawn chair about the
time I reach that spot! + they take out the trash...............tattoo joe
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 12:00:22 -0700
From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear canisters
To: "Alden Dale" <alden at thomasaquinas.edu>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <006001c7f181$57e32e50$6500a8c0 at BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I was just in Yosemite last month, and was informed by the Tuolumne Meadows
Wilderness Center - where I got my permit - that the "above 9600 feet" rule
has been revoked. Altitude no longer factors into the equation. The web site
is out of date.
Wandering Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Alden Dale
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear canisters
Yosemite regulations are as follows:
if you're camping somewhere that isn't:
-within 7 miles of a road
-above 9,600 feet
-within 1/2 mile of benson lake
Then you don't need any kind of bear storage device according to the
official Yosemite park site,
http://www.nps.gov/archive/yose/wilderness/bfoodstorage.htm
Those are the current regulations. Print out that page and keep it with
you if a ranger asks. Some of them may not know that if you aren't doing
any of the above you are allowed to not use bear canisters or storage
boxes.
I had no problem following those regulations- it isn't too hard. I had no
problems with bears this year at all. I saw no bears through all of
yosemite, and saw one few days past yosemite at Ebbett's pass, and one by
Buck's lake.
I'm not sure of area south of Yosemite, but from Yosemite to the Oregon
border for sure are no required places for bear canisters.
Good luck, and God Bless!
Alden
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:21:42 +0000
From: jeff.singewald at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Empty Water Caches All Over So Cal.
To: joseph kisner <lostonthecrest at hotmail.com>,
"pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<090720071921.8994.46E1A4C60004B5D00000232222165514060B040E990A0902079CD2000
00A06 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
Tatto Joe writes:
>So every bottle had about a 1/2 inch of water in it. Lets face it, when
most people are
>50 or more miles from a trashcan, the last thing they want to do is put
that
>bottle[s] in their pack and carry it out. It sounds crazy and there are
those
>who do clean up after us, but the proof was right there.
Ah, that sweet sense of entitlement that we thru-hikers (and section hikers)
have on the trail! In addition to having no desire to carry out anything we
might find at the cache, we frequently choose to leave the trash that we
have been carrying for several days at the cache believing that the cache
maintainer will happily haul it away as well. This year I have put out two
caches of trail magic at trailheads while out hiking portions of the trail
and both times there was significantly more trash at the site when I
returned than what I had left.
To think how much weight I could have saved (ah the those precious ounces)
if I would have unloaded my trash at all of the caches I came across last
year. I'm sure it would made a significant difference for me! Now, if I
can only figure out how to establish that sense of entitlement back here in
life off trail...
Joe, while I agree with you, I sense that this is going to be a bigger and
bigger issue as the number of hikers increase and the number of people that
want to provide this assistance increase in the years ahead.
Elevator
-------------- Original message --------------
From: joseph kisner <lostonthecrest at hotmail.com>
> My friend has been trail running the PCT, for his upcoming race. He has
been
> running sections all over So Cal., like he has done so many times before.
The
> only difference this year are the empty water bottles and trash related to
> caches, left for everyone's enjoyment. He said, "the ones that were close
enough
> to retrieve he went back to clean them up", but in some areas it is simply
a
> shame. Usually it is us hikers, who complain about the racers ribbons that
get
> left behind. But this year the talk will be different.
>
> I myself departed late in May from Campo. I had the pleasure to witness
ALL of
> the random caches, throughout So Cal. Some actually were in styro-foam
coolers
> that were broken up and spread out by the wind. Others had become trash
piles
> for the few thoughtless people who came upon them.
>
> I hiked the entire trail, only relying on reliable sources. I admit I did
top
> off on these sources, but I also kept them organized and clean. But I will
also
> say I could of hiked the entire trail without any caches. I knew then as I
know
> now, that some of the people who left some of these caches, would not
return to
> clean up the mess. One in particular had a sign on it and I DO remember
the name
> of the person who was leaving these caches, "When you empty the bottle
take it
> with you" was on the sign. So every bottle had about a 1/2 inch of water
in it.
> Lets face it, when most people are 50 or more miles from a trashcan, the
last
> thing they want to do is put that bottle[s] in their pack and carry it
out. It
> sounds crazy and there are those who do clean up after us, but the proof
was
> right there.
>
> I believe that if you do not maintain your cache you are degrading our
> wilderness, and only creating a pile of trash for others to enjoy. A act
of
> kindness, should be thoughtful to all.
>
> Ps. Do not get rid of the oasis, I love a beer and a lawn chair about the
time I
> reach that spot! + they take out the trash...............tattoo joe
> _________________________________________________________________
> More photos; more messages; more whatever Get MORE with Windows Live
Hotmail.
> . NOW with 5GB storage.
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio
n_HM
> _mini_5G_0907
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l at backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 20:01:33 -0700
From: "Steve Queen" <steve at longtrails.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Mt. Hood National Forest Off-highway Vehicle Travel
Management Plan
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <012201c7f1c4$90289050$0200a8c0 at Aragorn>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The Mount Hood National Forest is proposing to establish and designate a
system of roads, trails and areas for off-highway vehicles (OHV). One of
these areas, the Peavine area, is particularly close to the Pacific Crest
Trail near the Warm Springs Indian Reservation. You can visit this website
for more information (including the maps):
http://www.fs.fed.us:80/r6/mthood/projects/.
The Forest Service will host two open houses to present and answer questions
about the proposed action. Since there will be no formal presentations at
the open houses, you may free to come at any time during the meetings. The
meetings are scheduled as follows.
September 11, 6:00 pm to 7:30 pm.
University Place Hotel and Conference Center
Willamette Falls Room
310 SW Lincoln Street
Portland, OR 97201
September 12, 6:00 pm to 7:30 pm.
Best Western Hood River Inn
Riverview Room
1108 East Marina Way
Hood River, OR 97031
Steve Queen
Mount Hood Area Coordinator
Pacific Crest Trail Association
http://www.longtrails.com/mthood/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 01:32:34 EDT
From: Dcsmith36 at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Empty Water Caches All Over So Cal. & trash
To: jeff.singewald at comcast.net, lostonthecrest at hotmail.com,
pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <c8f.186e27b2.34138df2 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I had to laugh reading about the weight savings of ejecting your trash
along
the trail. Very funny!!
This summer ( July 14) my youngest son and I were hiking the PCT through
the
Goat Rocks.
At the McCall Basin cut-off there was a HUGE black bag full of garbage left
by a group of (Boo Hiss!!) horse campers. At least that's who I believe
left
it, because the bag was stuffed with glass bottles, paper plates, Styrofoam
cups, watermelon rinds etc...
It was very disgusting, right beside the trail & we noted it sadly as we
passed by.
I told the Forest Service about the bag of garbage when I returned home,
expecting them to send someone with a horse or something to pick it up.
The next time my kids and I went back (July 26) the bag was still there,
same place beside the trail. We walked by, shaking our heads in wonder at
how
the worlds natural beauty can be diminished by just one group of slobs.
We
wondered in shame at how many hundreds of people would walk by this bag of
garbage out in the middle of no where, and how embarrassing this was.
On our way back out several days later, we again passed by the bag and I
couldn't take it any more!! I picked it up and carried it at arms length,
drippy smelly stuff spattering down the sides. Yuck. I alternated arms
until I
couldn't carry it any further.
I stashed the sorry mess by Lutz Lake (swamp/pond) in the camp spot there,
kind of out of site from the trail, but easy to find when and if the Forest
Service ever sent anyone out to get it.
I felt that semi-hiding it was better than just letting it sit by the
trail,
and I didn't have the strength or stomach to carry it and my pack the five
and a half miles to the trail head (1118).
At least this way, the majority of the people hiking by wouldn't have to be
offended by it.
I again contacted the USFS and they promised they would send someone out to
get it.
Fast forward to last weekend, Saturday. A full month and a half after I
first ran across the bag, I took a day hike back to the area with an empty
pack,
some rope and an extra-heavy duty garbage bag.
I had a hunch.
Sure enough, the bag was still there, tucked away in the corner of the
campsite. I smiled to myself and looked inside (morbid curiosity, ok?). I
had to
laugh, because now, in addition the paper plates etc from the horse campers
(
Boo Hiss!!) , the was an extensive collection of empty freeze dried food
packages!!
What a hoot!!
My assumption is that the people who camped there thought that there must
be
"garbage service" at the camp spot, because there was a bag there!! Either
that, or they were just being opportunists and guilt-free shedding a couple
ounces of trash.
Needles to say, I double bagged the whole sloppy mess, tied it to my pack
and headed on down the trail. The few people I met coming up the trail
were
very cool about the whole thing, or maybe didn't even notice. I thought I
looked like a back woods weed grower at harvest time, but who knows what
they
thought of me?
Hint: FREEK!!
Peace Out
Daniel
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 09:37:28 -0700
From: "Reinhold Metzger" <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Trouble is back in town
To: "'PCT-L'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, <Hiker97 at aol.com>, "Deems"
<losthiker at sisqtel.net>, "Tortoise" <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
Message-ID: <000701c7f236$8c3fdda0$a700a8c0 at sd.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Gang, I'm back.......trouble is back in town!!!
After 2 weeks in the Sierra and another week in Mammoth for the San Diego
Ski Club's
annual work party I am back.
Whoaaaa!!!.....looks like I stepped into a flame war.
DOWN BOYS.......DOWN BOYS.......I know the hiking season is almost over,
everybody
is getting nervous and tensions are running high......where is all the
backpacking camaraderie and brotherly love?
Where are you Switchback???......We need some comedy & trail humor to put
everybody
in a better frame of mind.
Give us your best stuff and you better make it quick!!!
JMT Reinhold
The nervous one
------------------------------
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