[pct-l] O.d. COYOTE....Slackpacking the O.d. Coyote way.
t.n. turner
barnumbaileypdx at hotmail.com
Sat Nov 3 20:59:54 CDT 2007
Thank you Jim. I tried to think of a rebuttal to this post, but then just thought it would make it more inflammatory, (not that tactful myself<smile>). But I appreciate and agree with your words, especially the 'character assassination" part. Again, thank you.
Tammy T.
> From: spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com
> To: reinholdmetzger at cox.net; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net; odcoyote at mollala.net
> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 20:10:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] O.d. COYOTE....Slackpacking the O.d. Coyote way.
>
> Reinhold Metzger wrote:
> > > Ooohhh, what an awful two week.....first come the fires... then comes
> >O.d.Coyote.
> > > It's like getting hit by a motorcycle and then get run over by a truck.
> > > I usually do not respond to posts like O.d Coyote's nasty Oct. 21 post,
> >but this is character
> > > assasination and needs responding.
>
> Always makes me wonder about people who wait until the object of their
> attack is gone and can't defend themselves. It's kinda like talking behind
> someone's back - nasty, slimy & underhanded....backstabbing.
>
> The bad news? For those who haven't figured it out, O.d. left the list last
> week and likely won't be back. The loser? - is the list as a whole. The
> other bad news? You got me back after having been gone for most of 6 years.
>
> > > O.d., O.d,.....you make me chuckle......for someone who is super
> >sensitive
> > > to criticism you seem overly eager to criticize anybody who does not
> >subscribe
> > > to your philosophy of slackpacking, the O.d. Coyote way.
>
> No - that wasn't his point at all. In fact, in his posts to this list he
> never mentioned slackpacking. So what are you talking about? Other than
> misdirection and self-defensiveness.
>
> > > It appears you seem to be suffering from selective memory as
> >well.....very
> >common > with older folks.
>
> I'm 68 - and a lot older than o.d. --- so your point would be...? Just how
> many folks on this list would you imagine you've insulted with that remark?
>
> > > Your Oct. 21 post is riddled with inaccuracies twisted comments and
> >fabrications
> > > to support your point of view and criticism of folks who disagree with
> >you.
> >
> > > I also remember our meetings but have a different recollection.
> > > I remember thinking you were Billy Goat when I saw you scrambling up the
> >sand dunes.
> > > I remember after you shared your impressive hiking experiences with me
> >you
> >asking me
> > > who I was and you comenting I heard of you.
> > > I responded I am Reinhold Metzger the unsupported JMT record holder not
> >Reinhold
> > > Messner the world famous moutaineer.
> > > I remember your demeanor changing when you realized I am a fastpacker
> >and you
> > > criticizing speed hiking, the Tripple Crown awards and the ''Glory
> >Hounds'', as you put it,
> > > who hike for awards and you insisting heavier and better equiped
> >slackpackers enjoy their
> > > hike more than speed hikers.
> > > Being a firm HYOH believer, I disagreed but hey......HYOH.
> > > You on the other hand were unvavering in your insistence that
> >slackpacking
> >is the superior
> > > and more enjoyable way.
>
> In fact, I believe your comments tally pretty well with his recollections as
> expressed in his post. So what specifically were the "inaccuracies twisted
> comments and fabrications" that you accuse him of? You've failed to make
> your point.
>
> You also seem to have missed this part of his post -
>
> >We talked for an hour or so, sharing what I believed was a private
> >conversation
> >in the middle of nowhere with no one else around, about various hiking
> >topics, one of which was the Triple Crown.
>
> What part of "private conversation" do you not understand? Would you also
> publicly post a "private" email? In case you haven't figured it out -
> they're equivalent. Particularly since you felt moved to comment on his
> attitudes, beliefs, etc. That's a bit of arrogance that you should be old
> enough to avoid - it depends on assumptions that one is never qualified to
> make about someone else without a lot more than an hours conversation.
>
> So --- what's your problem with his hiking his hike? Obviously you have a
> problem or you wouldn't be belaboring this. As for the Triple Crown - well,
> I am one - and I agree with him to a very large degree. And as I've said
> before - very few people have given the subject enough thought to qualify as
> worth listening to. The reactions on this list to his thoughts on the
> subject were entirely defensive and without either thought or merit.
>
> > > I also remember telling you I would post a comment on the PCT-L about
> >our
> >meeting on
> > > your second Coastal Trail hike on and you had no objection.
> > > Shortly after we parted company with, me thinking...strange
> >bird...accomplished hiker, but
> > > strange bird.
>
> All long distance hikers are strange - any other view is stranger still.
>
> > > You see O.d......In nature not all things are created equal.....some of
> >us
> > > are born with 4 cylinders some of us are born with 8 cylinders, there
> >are
> > > turtles and there are rabbits, slackpackers and fast packers, that's
> >what
> > > keeps the world diverse and interesting.
> > > Turtles, 4 cylinders and slackpackers will forever criticize rabbits, 8
> >cylinders
> > > and fastpackers for hiking to fast and not enjoying their hike.
>
> And what evidence do you have to support your view? I've found from both
> observation and personal experience that speed hikers are extraordinarily
> hypersensitive to ANY reference to hiking speed. And screamingly defensive
> about any reference to or observation about it. You got your logic
> bassackwards there. You need to read this - http://spiriteaglehome.com/bb
> speed.html
>
> And then answer the questions that are asked there. Until you have answers
> to those questions, you have no business beating up on anyone else's hiking
> style.
>
> > > Who is to say turtles, 4 cylinders and slackpackers enjoy their journey
> > > more than rabbits, 8 cylinders and fastpackers?
>
> The evidence is the constant litany of comments from the rabbits, 8
> cylinders and fastpackers. As well as the constant derogatory remarks,
> insults and putdowns of those who fail to meet "their" standards for pack
> weight, speed and distance. Yeah - I've gotten all of that and more. And,
> like it or not, your words and attitude here is just a continuation of the
> litany.
>
> So here's another quote for you - from a Triple Crown -
>
> >One of the hardest parts of thruhiking is the way the push for miles can
> >take over a hike. When it becomes an endurance test - a death march - then
> >the purpose of the hike changes from exploring and enjoying the land and
> >the wildlife and the people to a joyless quest for more and more miles in
> >order to get to the end of the trail. On the CDT, that very often
> >translates to >the “race for the border” – and the destination becomes more
> >important than the journey.
>
> How many times have I seen that? Let me count the ways --- but then, I
> don't have enough fingers and toes......
>
> > > Who is to say everyone should slackpack the O.d. Coyote way?
> > > I say...HYOH... and who cares what O.d. Coyote says.
>
> Since he's a lot smarter than you, maybe you should pay more attention to
> him.
>
> > > I used to hike like you hauling a 65 lb pack with everything needed to
> > > survive a nuclear attack.
> > > But, as I grew older and wiser I saw the light and now I travel
> >ultra-lite.
> > > But you know O.d., some folks don't get wiser as they get older they
> >just
> > > get older and never see the light.
> > > I suspect you may be part of the later group.
> > > However, do not despair, it is never to late to see the light....so open
> >up your
> > > eyes O. d. and let the light shine in.
> >
> > > Cheers, and hope to see you on the trail again someday.
> > > Maybe you can show me the merits of slackpacking and I can show you the
> > > merits of fastpacking and maybe, just maybe, we can come up with the
> >right
> > > compatible speed combination for turtles & rabbits and we will be one
> >happy
> > > family and you will not have those pesty speed hikers zooooming by you
> >and
> > > aggravating you.
>
> Sometimes it's not the zooooming that bothers some of us - it's the
> unsociability of those who are in such a hurry they have no time to talk
> about what they're doing or the trail or anything else. And sometimes they
> haven't even the time to say hello. When we did the PCT we met a southbound
> section hiker who was amazed that we'd actually stop to talk to him for a
> few minutes . He told us that we were the first at least a couple dozen
> thruhikers who'd been willing to take the time to even say hello. What a
> pitiful comment on what some people have the temerity to call a trail
> "community.
>
> > > JMT Reinhold
> > > The 4 cylinder slackpacker & HYOH crusader
>
> You got your terms mixed there - which, given that they were "your" terms,
> is an indication that o.d.'s memories are probably a lot better than yours.
>
> In fact, O.d.'s point re: this list and your previous posts was that
> trashing a fellow hiker behind their back is unacceptable behavior, just as
> it is an any other community or group. Which is precisely what you just did
> here. You could also say that it's what I just did. But keep in mind that
> if you fail to respect the accomplishments of someone who did what you
> aspire to do long before you ever even heard of it, then you should have no
> expectation that others will respect your hike or accomplishments.
>
> As for HYOH, you really should learn more about it before you start throwing
> the term around. One part of HYOH is to mind your own business - not that
> of other hikers. If O.d. wants to slackpack "his way" and to urge others to
> try it, it's not your business to trash him for it - or to comment publicly
> on a forum where he has no opportunity to rebut or discuss your arguments.
>
> Another part is to refrain from doing things that damage the trail, the
> community or your fellow hikers. That part is NOT restricted to the
> physical damage resulting from burning down the hostel - it includes the
> damage to the general reputation of long distance hiking/hikers. And it
> includes not trashing the elders of your tribe as has been done here.
> That's not your business.
>
> Your post violates 2 of the 3 parts of HYOH. You might want to read the
> following web pages - you might learn something -
>
> http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/THP hyoh.html
>
> http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/cdt hyoh.html
>
> Finally - you object to "character assassination" - but your original post
> last year was specifically that. And now you've continued the abuse with
> this post. O.d. is one of the elders of the tribe - and the way he was
> treated by pct-l in general and you in particular, was rude, crude, uncalled
> for -- and shameful.
>
> A very irritated Jim
>
> http://spiriteaglehome.com/
>
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