[pct-l] those bleeping stoves and their various fuels

[R Smith]

Reading below brought back memories of the section of trail through Hat
Creek Rim. Of all of the places on the entire PCT, there was nowhere I
considered drier and more ripe for a fire, so I was really worried about
using my alcohol stove. I did end up using it, but placed the stove in the
middle of the trail tread where it was free from nearby weeds. I also kept
my very limited supply of water nearby to douse any sparks. In the end I was
successful in not burning down the rim. 

If I were to hike the trail over, I would take a canister stove from the
border (going north) to the Sierras, since it seems to get a little drier
every year in Southern Cal, and I definitely think canister stoves are the
safest in really dry areas. At Kennedy Meadows I would switch to an alcohol
stove the rest of the way, since with the exception of Hat Creek Rim I can't
think of any other really bad areas for using alcohol stoves if caution is
exercised.
Ron Smith, Portland

-----Original Message-----
From: Georgi Heitman [mailto:bobbnweav at citlink.net] 
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:08 PM
To: "L-Rod"/Donna "HikerHeaven" Saufley
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] those bleeping stoves and their various fuels

L-Rod...
Thank you...as so often happens, you not only grasp the nature of the
problem, but know the right words to say to help explain same, and give some
suggestions.  I'm amazed at the curfuffle my post raised, and at the same
time very pleased...it seems to have set a bunch of people to thinking.
Hopefully this thought process will carry into the woods. 
 As A Bat, I loved that you'd already been concerned enough to do some
testing.  Try throwing some dried grass clippings into your fire pit and
then spill some burning alcohol and watch what the grass clippings do, and
how hard it is to tell if there's any fire spreading.  It would make sense
for other hikers to experiment a bit, not only with fuels but also factoring
in, if possible, wind...produced  by a fan perhaps on your cement driveway.
Eric, thank you for bringing that up.  Frankly, I hadn't really thought
about how the very lightweight soda can stove would behave in a strong wind.
Good point.
 Radar and Eckert, you're right when you say that it's not necessarily the
denatured alcohol that I  worry about, but the consequences of an accident
while using any form of fuel.  This already very dry year could be the one
Dennie and I have been worried about since we moved here in 1993.  Our worst
nightmare come true.  More on that in a moment....
And finally, Mark the Slogger...alcohol should be a sensitive subject, tho
as mentioned above, all fuels should be handled with extra care this year,
but especially alcohol, because of the nature of that particular beastie, be
it denatured or not.
Dennis is a retired firefighter, a 26 year veteran from the Oakland F.D
(East Bay in the San Francisco Bay area).  The Department's most feared
fires, other than illegal fireworks manufacturing blazes and paint stores
were chemical fires, especially pharmaceutical company fires.  We have, over
the years, had quite a number of such companies in the East Bay, and cities
give mutual aid so Dennie's seen his share.  The nature of alcohol is to
burn invisibly, especially during daylight hours, making it very difficult
to know where the fire they're fighting is...or for that matter, to know if
alcohol is even involved.  Foam is used extensively for chemical fires, if
liquid alcohol has been released from containers, it can run under foam and
then as Donna mentioned, a spark can set it off, too often behind the
firefighters.  And too often, they don't know til their turnouts get hot.
Bad business, that, as you might imagine.  This one aspect of this one type
of fuel is what scares me so much that I felt compelled to write what I
wrote. 
Now, back to our worst nightmare...we've not had a fire through our
immediate area since Mt. Lassen erupted in 1914.  The largest of these
eruptions blew his side out (This Mt. is named for Peter Lassen, and is
therefore, male) and released a melted snow, mud and ash flow that rolled
out that side and down the mountain, following the path of least resistance,
which happened to be Hat Creek, and starting fires all along the way.
Basically, some of the area around us (within a mile or so as the crow
flies) in a pick-up stick sort of hodge-podge just waiting for the right
moment.  It will be a horrendous. firestorm...the kind that produces it's
own winds and weather. To that end, we have installed fire hydrant-like
stand pipes all over our yard and three pumping systems all feeding from our
little creek.  Will it be enough?  We don't know, we don't want to find out.
When we lived in Oakland, we feared a warm easterly wind above all other
things.  I mentioned that very subject one morning on a dry October day  as
we headed out to breakfast after Dennie got back home from working a 24 hour
shift, saying, "I wonder if this is the wind we've been dreading."  About
three hours later, we knew it was, as Dennis raced back to duty and spent
the next 48 hours fighting the behemoth Oakland Hills fire that destroyed
over 3000 homes and took 27 lives, including those of a very good friend of
mine and of a co-worker of Dennie's.  We'd not like to see a repeat, thank
you.
So, regardless of what you plan to cook on or what you use to cook it with,
please do some practice runs at home under an assortment of weather
conditions, real or concocted.  Decide that watching a bit of cowboy T.V.
isn't necessarily needed for a good night's sleep and especially, know what
an alcohol fire burns like when it gets away from you-  before you head out
on the trail.  And, please spread the word about extra caution this season,
no matter what part of the trail you're on.  
 I really didn't expect the response my post has received...but, I thank you
all for weighing in on this most important issue.
Georgi
Trail Angel in Old Station.