[pct-l] the whole truth
karl jorgensen
karlandpeggy at shaw.ca
Tue Dec 5 21:00:42 CST 2006
yogi, keep up the good work!!! I used an older version of your handbook, plus the guides, and I never had a problem in hiking from Mexico to Canada. In fact I was one of the frontrunners even though I started behind the pack. Some people have nothing better to do than find fault. Thank you yogi for all that you are doing to make the trail experience for the most a great memory. Karl (jorgy) 06
----- Original Message -----
From: yogi <yogihikes at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 5, 2006 7:21 pm
Subject: [pct-l] the whole truth
> A warning to everyone: This is a LONG post. After
> being slandered on PCT-L by Adam Bradley for the last
> two months, today I'll respond.
>
> The short version is this:
>
> In February 2005, the PCTA issued a new Data Book with
> new mileage. This mileage did not match my book. At
> that time, I personally emailed every person who had
> purchased my book recently and offered them a revision
> package for the Part 2 pages. Adam chose to not
> obtain the revision at that time, even though my email
> clearly stated that I was only printing enough
> revision packages for those who requested them.
>
> ONE YEAR LATER, Adam requested the revision package,
> which was no longer available. Had he requested the
> revision package at the time it was offered, he would
> have been able to get it. This was a one-time offer,
> and Adam declined the offer when he got it.
>
> The email exchange between Adam and I follows this
> post. I'm posting the emails here because Adam chose
> to post only a snip of one of my emails, which does
> not tell the whole story.
>
> It's quite clear that Adam does not like my book.
> That's his prerogative. But instead of speaking to me
> in person about this, Adam chose to cowardly attack me
> from behind a computer screen. You see, Adam attended
> the ALDHA-West Gathering in Sep-Oct 2006. I was at
> the Gathering, too. In fact, I was assigned the duty
> of taking the dinner meal tickets for Friday and
> Saturday nights. If Adam ate dinner either night,
> then we must have met. I had a name tag on. He could
> have discussed his issues with me at the Gathering.
> That would have been the mature way to handle his
> dislike of my work. Unfortunately, Adam chose the
> childish route, which was to slander me on the PCT-L.
>
>
> So, if you're still reading this, and if you're the
> least bit interested, here are those emails --- the
> complete emails, not just snips --- from February 2006
> which seem to be Adam's basis for my supposed terrible
> customer service:
>
>
> FIRST email from Adam:
>
> Yogi,
>
> I am putting together a PCT hike this 2006. I have a
> older copy of your book 2004. I would like to get the
> update package with the new mileages. I didn't see a
> place to order that on your website. Also, do you sell
> the walk documentaries? I would like to order both,
> however again it looks like you don't sell these? If
> you do I would like to order all this together. If not
> I will buy what I can from you and the rest from the
> walk website.
> thank you adam
>
>
> -----------------------
> My response to the FIRST email:
>
> Tou can purchase the "Walk" documentaries here:
> www.walkpct.com
>
> There is not an "update package" for my book. You can
> purchase the current book here: www.pcthandbook.com
>
> yogi
>
>
> ------------------------
> SECOND email from Adam:
>
> Yogi, thanks for the reply. here is a copy of a email
> i received from you about 10$ revisions. Is this no
> longer available?
>
> adam ---
>
> yogi wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I received the new 2005 edition of the PCT Data Book
> this week. My worst dreams have come true --- they
> changed the mileage of the trail. So now the mileage
> in my book does not match the 2005 Data Book.
>
> I'm currently working on a total mileage revision of
> my "Part 2" pages. This revision will make the mileage
> in "Yogi's PCT Handbook" match the new Data Book. The
> ONLY change will be the mileage. All the text will
> remain the same.
>
> What does this mean to you?
>
> If you're using the 2004 Data Book for this year's
> hike, then you're good to go. I would recommend
> sticking with what you have.
>
> But if you're using the 2005 Data Book for this year's
> hike, I would recommend purchasing the revised "Part
> 2" pages. It will be much easier to cross-reference
> the two data sources if the mileage matches.
>
> I should have the revision completed in about 2 weeks.
> But I need to know how ASAP many sets to get printed.
> If you're interested in purchasing the REVISED "Part
> 2" pages, please respond to this email no later than
> Monday, February 7. The cost will be $10 plus postage
> ($3 for First Class Mail, $4 for Priority Mail).
> Remember, the ONLY change will be mileage. HOWEVER,
> that is EVERY milepoint listed in the "Part 2" pages.
>
> In addition, if you would like to purchase an
> additional set of the ORIGINAL "Part 2" pages (these
> would be the ones with the 2004 Data Book mileages),
> those are also available for $10 plus postage ($3 for
> First Class Mail, $4 for Priority Mail).
>
> Postage quoted here is for addresses in the 48
> contiguous States. If you live in Alaska, Hawaii, or
> another country, the postage will be different.
>
> Please do not send payment now. What I need to
> determine is how many sets to get printed, based on
> the email responses I receive from you all. So, reply
> to this and let me know if you're interested. Then,
> I'll let you know how to purchase. This won't be on
> the www.pcthandbook.com website, because the person
> who handles the site is unavailable for the next
> month.
>
> I'm also working on corrections to the original books
> which you all have. These corrections will stuff like:
> "The store in xxxx town is now closed." "The new phone
> number for xxxx motel is xxx-xxx-xxxx." Those
> corrections will be posted on the www.pcthandbook.com
> site by the end of March. You'll be able to just go to
> the site and copy that information.
>
> I look forward to hearing from you!
>
> yogi
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> my response to the SECOND email:
>
> nope. That was a year ago, and it was a special
> one-time project. All that is available now is the
> current book
>
> yogi
>
>
> --------------------------
> THIRD email from Adam:
>
> Yogi, That is unfortunate. This book was up to date
> for all of 2 months. Now when I'm actually preparing
> to use the info, my only option is to buy a whole new
> handbook. Honestly when I got the updates to my email
> account I never read the email as I thought they were
> actual updates you were sending, or corrections. It
> also says in the email below that I can go to the
> Handbook website and download corrections. Where does
> one do that?
>
> In summary I really hope there is something we can do
> about getting the part 2 update. For someone who
> purchased your 2004 and have it not be accurate 2
> months later is very disappointing, with my only
> option being to spend an additional $35, mostly for
> the same information. Is there another solution that
> you can offer under these circumstances? Thank you for
> you time and replies,
>
> Adam Bradley
> PCT 2006 Hike4Trails (benifit for PCTA)
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> my response to the THIRD email
>
> I strive to make every Handbook which leaves my door
> accurate the date it is mailed. That is why I use the
> 3-ring binder format -- I can add and subtract pages
> as necessary. A book which is mailed today will almost
> always be different from a book which is mailed
> tomorrow. I know of NO OTHER guidebook which offers
> real-time corrections, resulting in the most accurate
> guidebook possible.
>
> I am not the PCTA. The PCTA gave me permission to use
> the mileage in their Data Book, but they have no
> obligation to advise me of potential changes in their
> mileage. The very day I learned the mileage changed
> ONE YEAR AGO, I offered an update to those who had
> recently purchased my book. The ONLY change in that
> special update was that I altered the actual mileage
> numbers in my book to match the new PCTA Data Book.
> All other data in my book remained the same. I repeat
> --- THE ONLY CHANGE WAS THE MILEAGE NUMBERS. You can
> easily take a pen and make those changes manually all
> by yourself.
>
> When I learned of the mileage change, I contacted you
> personally and gave you the opportunity to obtain the
> update. You clearly stated today in an email that you
> chose to not read that email I sent to you LAST YEAR.
> I printed exactly enough quantity of the update to
> cover those hikers who responded to my email in a
> timely manner and indicated they wanted to obtain the
> update. In addition, I printed 20 extra copies of the
> update and made those available on the
> www.pcthandbook.com website. That update was available
> on the website until September of 2005.
>
> That update was available from February 2005 until
> September 2005. You chose to not obtain the update for
> the 8 months it was available. The trail changes. At
> the end of the 2005 season, I revised the book to
> reflect changes from the 2005 hiking season. The
> current book available is not the same as last year's
> book, and not the same as the special update. This is
> new information.
>
> Yes, the email which I sent to you ONE YEAR AGO states
> there are updates on the www.pcthandbook.com website.
> That was accurate at the time the email was sent, and
> for the next 8 months. Once a new edition of the book
> was created, the updates no longer applied.
>
> Handbooks for hiking trails are updated yearly. Not
> just mine, but many, many other hiking handbooks
> (i.e., the PCTA Data Book, the ATC Companion,
> Wingfoot's AT Thru-Hiker's Handbook, etc). To expect a
> book you purchased over a year ago --- and which you
> did not choose to update when the update was offered
> to you --- to be accurate a year later is
> unreasonable.
>
> Buy the new version. Don't buy the new version. Do
> what works for you. As Brian Frankle said in a recent
> PCT-L post, "buy your gear wherever the hell you
> want."
>
> HYOH
>
> yogi
>
>
>
>
> --- Adam Bradley <tooloouk79852 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Sly,
> > Yes my friend no problem. No fueding needed. I
> > am
> > just having fun with Yogis book. I found it
> > frustrating to use as I think the language she uses
> > is
> > confusing. I am not interested in posting publicly
> > all the confusing portions of her book as I am not
> > interested in providing her with feedback after
> > being
> > told to go to hell. The black marker was used to
> > write in the correct mileages. I do think she
> > should
> > include a black marker whith her book as that is her
> > best customer service solution she can come up with
> > when her book proves to be inaccurate. A common
> > theme
> > I heard from those hiking around me this year 2006
> > on
> > the PCT was "I tried to contact her, but we got the
> > I
> > don't know you attitude and was blown off." Heard
> > that a lot. It was actually funny as I wasn't
> > soliciting this info from anyone. People just
> > offered
> > it up, but not surprising there would be a distance
> > between the trail and the online community. I will
> > give one minor example: near mt hood there is a
> > place
> > where the old pct and the new split near ramona
> > falls.
> > i was reading her book and she used terminology to
> > the effect "the databook goes crazy here." A better
> > way to say this is the databook chooses to offer
> > mileages for the old PCT. Lots of places where Yogi
> > attempts to clarify the Guidebooks by Schaffer and
> > whoever, but seems to confuse the situation with the
> > wording she chooses. I am posting these in my TJ
> > account which may be found by going to
> > web.mac.com/hike4trails and selecting pct 2006 on
> > the
> > about me page. I have the first "bermuda triangle"
> > listed in there at mojave dam. pretty comical as
> > she
> > has 2 explanations for this neither of them much
> > help.
> >
> >
> > I obviously would whole heartedly disagree with you
> > that yogi gave it her best shot. I know as I work
> > customer service and If i used the language she did
> > with me I would be fired pronto. But that is why I
> > am
> > time and again recognized by my peers for the
> > customer
> > service I offer.
> >
> >
> > Buy the new version.
> > Don't buy the new version. Do
> > what works for you. As Brian Frankle said in a
> > recent
> > PCT-L post, "buy your gear wherever the hell you
> > want."
> >
> > HYOH
> >
> > yogi
> >
> >
> > I just snipped this from a reply asking for a update
> > she offered. got to go way busy here.
> >
> > take care adam
> > --- Slyatpct at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 12/4/2006 8:58:58 PM Eastern
> > > Standard Time,
> > > tooloouk79852 at yahoo.com writes:
> > >
> > > Also, if you have a black marker you can just
> > write
> > > over the incorrect info which I know from
> > > experience
> > > works really well!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Listo, I'm not trying to start another feud but,
> > > unless I missed it you
> > > never did post the corrections you found in Yogi's
> > > book. I imagine it would be
> > > hard to since you back them out.
> > >
> > > All guidebook info should be taken with a grain of
> > > salt. The trail changes,
> > > the town services change, springs dry out, storms
> > > roll in etc. but most
> > > authors strive to give the best info available at
> > > printing.
> > >
> > > The beauty of the pct-l is to share latest info
> > and
> > > correct possible
> > > errors/omissions.
> > >
> > > Sly
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Cheap talk?
> > Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call
> > rates.
> > http://voice.yahoo.com
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