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pct-l-digest V1 #943
- Subject: pct-l-digest V1 #943
- Date: Saturday, November 20, 1999 3:24 PM
>
>pct-l-digest Saturday, November 20 1999 Volume 01 : Number
943
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> [pct-l] Kick off party
> Re: [pct-l] Foot pain problem
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> Re: More BTU's was: Re: [pct-l] Insulation above, insulation below
> Re: [pct-l] BTU's
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> RE: [pct-l] BTU's
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> [pct-l] pct-l-digest V1 #942--drop
> RE: [pct-l] Foot pain problem
> Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
> Re: [pct-l] BTU's
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:03:07 EST
>From: Bighummel@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>No, Monte the Southern California desert hasn't died, it has just changed.
>The twisted pines are still on the side of Baden Powell, the desert still
>blooms in April/March (you should have seen it in 1998 with El Nino wetness
>promoting the bloom!). The dirt bikes are still around, the trail has now
>been finished thru the old ranch and I haven't heard of anyone having any
>problems with Indians at all.
>
>Lone Pine has become a zoo, I will give you that. The popularity of Mt.
>Whitney is amazing and continues to grow. Lone Pine, as the portal to
>Whitney gets most of the tourist action, kind of like Estes Park does from
>Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado.
>
>The other towns along the eastern front of the Sierras, with the exception
of
>Bishop and Mammoth, haven't changed much. I really like the small town
>atmosphere and people of Independence and Big Pine. Bishop has grown
>significantly and Mammoth continues to mature into a high society ski
resort,
>ala Aspen.
>
>Air pollution in Southern California is the least in the past 25+ years. I
>live in Diamond Bar, near the base of Mt. Baldy, the home of the "AQMD":
Air
>Quality Management District, and near the center of what used to be the
worst
>air in the LA basin. The "Stage 1" smog alerts were many when I was
growing
>up here in the sixties and seventies. However, they have now tightened the
>definition of a Stage 1 because the air quality had improved so much that
>they weren't calling any anymore! Last summer (traditionally the worst
>season for smog here) we didn't have one, even under the new definition. I
>haven't felt my lungs ache and my eyes sting for years. It used to be
common.
>
>"Things are getting better all the time . . . "
>
>(sunny day, 75 degree reflections)
>
>Greg "Strider" Hummel
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 18:11:46 -0700
>From: Greg Prothman <gregpr@juno.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Kick off party
>
>Gave my name to Reynolds, will be there early, want to help in anything
>you want me to do.......Am not hiking section A did that...... will start
>again later on and hike from Section B..
>Am off tomorrow to try and get sections E and F done.
>Marge (the old gal)
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Get the Internet just the way you want it.
>Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
>Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:09:47 EST
>From: Slyinmd@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Foot pain problem
>
>In a message dated 11/19/99 12:23:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>ljrob@hotmail.com writes:
>
><< Did you ever determine what caused the foot pain so you could avoid it
in
> the future? Could it have been prevented with the proper orthotics? >>
>
>
>I found that Spenco backpacking insoles (the cushiony one) made a
tremendous
>difference. No more pain! Well, atleast more managable. Try them,
they're
>garaunteed.
>
>Sly
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 21:16:47 EST
>From: Slyinmd@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>In a message dated 11/19/99 7:05:33 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>Bighummel@aol.com writes:
>
><< Lone Pine has become a zoo, I will give you that. The popularity of Mt.
> Whitney is amazing and continues to grow. >>
>
>The day I was in Lone Pine, I thought it was fairly laid back town and
pretty
>cool, but I only went to dinner and it was late in the afternoon. I was
>surprised at it's greenery and in the shadow of Whitney, it was awesome. I
>was upset I didn't have my camera with me to take a picture of the
mountain,
>but bought a post card.
>
>Whitney had me in mixed emotions. Starting out with my hiking partner from
a
>tarn above Guitar Lake I actually thought we'd be one of the first ones up.
>We were climbing from the western side (JMT), but I didn't realize that
there
>was a campsite not far from the top on the east. It didn't help that both
of
>us were late risers and never in much of a hurry to get going. The
mountain
>had dozens of people on top, mostly "chilling" out in the warm sun. It was
>magnificent.
>
>But what really blew my mind was an obnoxiously loud cell phone call made
>right next to me. "Hi, Nicole, you'll never guess where I am." That
sucked!
> I just got up and started down. Next time I may not be so patient. It
was
>rude!
>
>No other complaints, Sly : )
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:35:22 -0800
>From: Richard Calliger <calliger@infolane.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>At 2:16 AM -0000 11.20.99, Slyinmd@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>But what really blew my mind was an obnoxiously loud cell phone call made
>>right next to me. "Hi, Nicole, you'll never guess where I am." That
sucked!
>> I just got up and started down. Next time I may not be so patient. It
was
>>rude!
>>
>>No other complaints, Sly : )
>>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net
*
>
>
>
>There is no difference between what you what hear if someone talking on
>cell phone to friend or talking to friend sitting there. Both are within
>earshot of you.
>
>You hear the same thing either way! (except you hear less actually, as the
>other
>end is heard only on the phone!) I wonder what the real problem is with
>objecting t to cell phones. Why did it suck? Nicole was probaly very happy
to
>hear from her friend. People and being friends are so very important. The
cell
>phone is part of the communication revolution we are all experiencing.
>,
>The internet over which you complain, is another. What is more rude,
>listening to
>a complaint or someone cherfully calling a friend. Many people have palm
>tops and cell phones on the trail these days.
>
>Rich
>
>
>- --RJ Calliger
>
>Mi Wuk Village, California
>"At Home in The Sierra Nevada Mountains on the PCT/JMT"
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Use email: Never send a tree to do an electron's work.
>(c) Copyright rj calliger 1995-1999
>
> http://www.infolane.net/~calliger OR
> http://banquo.infolane.com/~calliger
>
> /\
> / \ /\ /\
>/ \/ \/ \ /\
> \ \/ \
> \______\____
>
>"Attitude is the brush that paints the picture." -anon
> "Do, or Do Not -- There is No Try" - Yoda
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:56:56 EST
>From: ROYROBIN@aol.com
>Subject: Re: More BTU's was: Re: [pct-l] Insulation above, insulation below
>
>In a message dated 11/16/1999 3:23:54 PM PST, Richard Calliger writes:
>
><< I could be wrong- however I believe the reason your bag frosts up is due
to
> the condensation (dew point) not the amount of heat escaping the bag!
Pretty
> sure anytime I sleep out *and* there is frost on the bag, there is usually
>frost
> on the ground/leaves/pine needles/etc. as well. >>
>
>Right. Condensation, and also your breath, wet clothes and whatever,
>contribute to the moisture which appears on the outer surface of the bag.
>Whether it freezes, sublimates, evaporates or just stays wet depends on a
lot
>of things (such as the air temperature, amount of wind, humidity, etc.)
One
>of the factors is the rate of radiative heat loss. That one factor can be
>reduced by getting under the trees or other shelter.
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 22:57:19 EST
>From: ROYROBIN@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] BTU's
>
>In a message dated 11/16/1999 5:16:59 PM PST, Slyinmd writes:
>
><<
> But doesn't an alcohol stove use more fuel, then it's white gas cousin?
How
>much alcohol would you take on a seven day stretch? And how often did you
>use it, breakfast, dinner?
> >>
>
>One pint of fuel lasts 8 days, if I boil 2 pints of water per day. That's
a
>whole Ramen plus a main course for dinner each day. I almost never heat
>water for breakfast. Two tablespoons of alcohol will boil a pint of water
>using the tuna can stove, so four tbsp (1/4 cup) is used each day. Pack
>weight the first day out, 4 oz for stove and light plastic fuel bottle
>(disposable water bottle) plus 16 oz of fuel, total 20 oz. On the last day
>before resupply, weight is down to 4 or 5 oz.
>
>For comparison (according to the Campmor catalog), a Whisperlite Shaker
stove
>weighs 14 oz plus 2.7 oz for an 11 fluid oz fuel bottle. Add 5 oz of fuel
>(enough, according to the ad to boil 9 quarts of water), for a total of
21.7
>oz the first day out. On the last day before resupply, weight is still
over
>a pound.
>
>Is the Whisperlite user going to start an eight day hike with 5 oz of fuel?
>More likely, he will fill the 11 oz fuel bottle, giving him the capability
to
>boil about 20 quarts of water. With that extra weight, he can have a hot
>cocoa with breakfast and hot water to clean up after dinner.
>
>No right or wrong, here, and your results WILL vary. But for a thruhiker
who
>is looking to keep pack weight down, hiking a typical 8 days between
>resupplies and doing minimal cooking, the alcohol stove has the edge.
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 23:24:58 EST
>From: Slyinmd@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>In a message dated 11/19/99 10:27:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>calliger@infolane.com writes:
>
><< There is no difference between what you what hear if someone talking on
> cell phone to friend or talking to friend sitting there. >>
>
>Yes, there was, everyone else was speaking in moderated tones amongst
>themselves and between each other. This women was obnoxiously loud,
walking
>between us, most likely keeping her signal at five stars or trying to
impress
>someone.
>
><<The cell phone is part of the communication revolution we are all
>experiencing.>>
>
>I take to the trail to communicate with nature, it doesn't take a cellphone
>to do that. I can easily wait until I reach a town to reach a loved one.
If
>this women had any class she could have easily moved off to the side to
make
>her call, but no, she brought many of us into it.
>
>I'm not against cellphones per se, just their unnecessary usage in the
>backcountry. Furthermore, many people depend on these contraptions to save
>their lives in lieu of proper common sense.
>
>I'm not complaining, just telling it like it is.
>
>Sly
>
>
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:57:05 -0800
>From: Richard Calliger <calliger@infolane.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>>I'm not complaining, just telling it like it is.
>
>That is not what you wrote.
>
>I quote: No other complaints, Sly : )
>
>
>I find that most people who run across cell phones in backcountry even when
>they are whispering, complain. Seems things are always louder when someone
>sees someone else using a cellphone. No? ;-)
>
>Very subjective issue as one does not complain if two people are talking
loudly
>next to you.. Phone call only lasts little while, no sense complaining jsut
>move down trail.
>
>People are complaining
>unfairly and giving cell phone users bad rap. Common sense not involved if
you
>have to evacuate someone who fell becasue rope or pro broke. Cell phones
>are lifesavers. Usually those who do not have them complain the "loudest"
>
>End of thread. I f you want to respond, lets take it off list.
>
>
>
>- --RJ Calliger
>
>Mi Wuk Village, California
>"At Home in The Sierra Nevada Mountains on the PCT/JMT"
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Use email: Never send a tree to do an electron's work.
>(c) Copyright rj calliger 1995-1999
>
> http://www.infolane.net/~calliger OR
> http://banquo.infolane.com/~calliger
>
> /\
> / \ /\ /\
>/ \/ \/ \ /\
> \ \/ \
> \______\____
>
>"Attitude is the brush that paints the picture." -anon
> "Do, or Do Not -- There is No Try" - Yoda
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 20:39:02 -0800
>From: "Reynolds, Tom" <reynolds@ilan.com>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] BTU's
>
>This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
>this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
>- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF3311.2C88D550
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>A butane stove with a canister that will last more than 8 days will weigh
>less than 16 ounces under the same constraints and boil more than 14 quarts
>of water. Plus it will simmer. Again, no right or wrong here. Butane
>canisters are hard to come by in some resupply locations. OTOH, this
>illustrates that fuel efficiency + fuel weight + stove weight = best
>performance.
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: ROYROBIN@aol.com [mailto:ROYROBIN@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 7:57 PM
>To: Slyinmd@aol.com; pct-l@edina.hack.net
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] BTU's
>
>
>In a message dated 11/16/1999 5:16:59 PM PST, Slyinmd writes:
>
><<
> But doesn't an alcohol stove use more fuel, then it's white gas cousin?
>How
>much alcohol would you take on a seven day stretch? And how often did you
>use it, breakfast, dinner?
> >>
>
>One pint of fuel lasts 8 days, if I boil 2 pints of water per day. That's
a
>
>whole Ramen plus a main course for dinner each day. I almost never heat
>water for breakfast. Two tablespoons of alcohol will boil a pint of water
>using the tuna can stove, so four tbsp (1/4 cup) is used each day. Pack
>weight the first day out, 4 oz for stove and light plastic fuel bottle
>(disposable water bottle) plus 16 oz of fuel, total 20 oz. On the last day
>before resupply, weight is down to 4 or 5 oz.
>
>For comparison (according to the Campmor catalog), a Whisperlite Shaker
>stove
>weighs 14 oz plus 2.7 oz for an 11 fluid oz fuel bottle. Add 5 oz of fuel
>(enough, according to the ad to boil 9 quarts of water), for a total of
21.7
>
>oz the first day out. On the last day before resupply, weight is still
over
>
>a pound.
>
>Is the Whisperlite user going to start an eight day hike with 5 oz of fuel?
>
>More likely, he will fill the 11 oz fuel bottle, giving him the capability
>to
>boil about 20 quarts of water. With that extra weight, he can have a hot
>cocoa with breakfast and hot water to clean up after dinner.
>
>No right or wrong, here, and your results WILL vary. But for a thruhiker
>who
>is looking to keep pack weight down, hiking a typical 8 days between
>resupplies and doing minimal cooking, the alcohol stove has the edge.
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF3311.2C88D550
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>
>- ------_=_NextPart_000_01BF3311.2C88D550--
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:34:28 EST
>From: Slyinmd@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>In a message dated 11/19/99 11:49:47 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>calliger@infolane.com writes:
>
><<
> >I'm not complaining, just telling it like it is.
>
> That is not what you wrote.
>
> I quote: No other complaints, Sly : )>>
>
>Very good, you did get me on that one.
>
>
> <>
>
>No! It's not like that. I came across a fire five miles before KM off the
>trail and went to check it out. There was little I could do, my hiking
>partner, who was behind me and still on the PCT and when I got back I
>mentioned too bad we didn't have a cell phone. His response, was he just
>tried to make a call and couldn't get a signal. I had no idea he was
>carrying and never put it in my face.
>
><< Very subjective issue as one does not complain if two people are talking
>loudly
> next to you.. Phone call only lasts little while, no sense complaining
jsut
> move down trail.>>
>
>I didn't complain and I did move down the trail. I do have some manners
>though, I wouldn't sit down next to anyone and make a phone call, anywhere,
>unless I asked first.
>
> <<People are complaining
> unfairly and giving cell phone users bad rap. Common sense not involved
if
>you
> have to evacuate someone who fell becasue rope or pro broke. Cell phones
> are lifesavers. Usually those who do not have them complain the "loudest"
>
> End of thread. I f you want to respond, lets take it off list. >>
>
>I don't think I'm complaining unfairly, it was rank! The cellphone in this
>issue had nothing to do with lifesaving, it was someone being ignorant of
the
>others around them.
>
>Just my feelings, Sly
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:06:45 EST
>From: Kjlonn@aol.com
>Subject: [pct-l] pct-l-digest V1 #942--drop
>
>Please drop me from your list. Thank you.
>kjlonn@aol.com
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:20:28 -0800
>From: "Beth Murdoch" <dorothea@jps.net>
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] Foot pain problem
>
>I am another hiker who had to stop hiking because of foot pain. We had
>hiked over a thousand miles in 98 when the threat of permanent injury-not
>being able to hike again-made me realize I had better quit. My problem was
>plantar fasciitis, which is an inflammation of a large tendon that runs
>along the bottom of your foot from arch to heel. It is common in people
who
>gain weight. I was gaining about 35 pounds each morning of my hike. I did
>some things right but many more things wrong. Before starting the hike I
>went to a podiatrist and got some orthotics, which I wore (and wear)
>constantly. They helped but were not enough. While I was very good about
>stretching during the training period before our hike, when on the trail I
>gave it up almost completely. Now I know that tight muscles along the back
>of the body contribute to sore feet. Another mistake I made was getting a
>pair of shoes that were too big. This made the orthotics less effective.
>Halfway through the hike I bought a new pack which was very comfortable( I
>had been suffering for 600 miles with a pack that gave me shooting pains in
>the back and shoulders) but was 3+ pounds heavier than the old one. Also,
>it was very hard for me to limit mileage per day. We would say "no more
>than 15 miles", but when we got there, it was almost impossible to stop.
We
>had the energy, we wanted to see what was around the next turn, and we
loved
>just moving.
>
>My plan for hiking without foot pain: !. Lower pack weight. Besides the
>pack itself and its contents, I could remove about ten pounds of just plain
>fat. 2. Stretch. Achilles, calf, hamstrings, gluteus, back. 3. Find
the
>best footwear for my feet. We wore running shoes, but now I wonder whether
>boots would have been better.
>
>I have two and a half years to try these things out before we take another
>thru-hike attempt in 2002.
>
>Beth
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pct-l@backcountry.net [mailto:owner-pct-l@backcountry.net]On
>Behalf Of Rob Langsdorf
>Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 9:19 AM
>To: jjonz@gte.net; pct-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: [pct-l] Foot pain problem
>
>Jeff Jones said:
>>I dropped out in northern California due to worsening chronic foot
>>pain so there's one data point from someone who quit in northern
>>Cal. I hobbled around for a month or two before the pain totally
>>went away.
>
> Did you ever determine what caused the foot pain so you could avoid
>it in
>the future? Could it have been prevented with the proper orthotics?
>
> I have had bad boots do me in at various times in the past.
>
> Rob
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:31:25 GMT
>From: "Brett Tucker" <blisterfree@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>
>Rich wrote:
>>>The cellphone is part of the communication revolution we are all
>>>experiencing.
>
>That's the potential problem with using cell phones in the wilderness: we
>are all experiencing the communication revolution, whether we like it or
>not. We need to be mindful of the fact that some folks aren't too crazy
>about technological revolutions, and perhaps head for the woods primarily
to
>escape it. Where else can we escape it if not the woods? I think everyone -
>phone users inclusive - heads to the wilderness for an "escape" of some
>sort, however deep. So, have your revolution if you want, but consider
>keeping it unobtrusive when in the backcountry. This isn't a compromise
plan
>- - talking quietly and separately from any bystanders - it's the
enlightened
>thing to do. Otherwise, the compromise is everyone's. IMHO.
>
>- - Blister
>
>
>>From: Richard Calliger <calliger@infolane.com>
>>To: Slyinmd@aol.com, Bighummel@aol.com, Montedodge@aol.com,
>>pct-l@edina.hack.net
>>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Growth and Gunshots in the desert
>>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 19:35:22 -0800
>>
>>At 2:16 AM -0000 11.20.99, Slyinmd@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >But what really blew my mind was an obnoxiously loud cell phone call
made
>> >right next to me. "Hi, Nicole, you'll never guess where I am." That
>>sucked!
>> > I just got up and started down. Next time I may not be so patient. It
>>was
>> >rude!
>> >
>> >No other complaints, Sly : )
>> >* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net
>>*
>>
>>
>>
>>There is no difference between what you what hear if someone talking on
>>cell phone to friend or talking to friend sitting there. Both are within
>>earshot of you.
>>
>>You hear the same thing either way! (except you hear less actually, as the
>>other
>>end is heard only on the phone!) I wonder what the real problem is with
>>objecting t to cell phones. Why did it suck? Nicole was probaly very
happy
>>to
>>hear from her friend. People and being friends are so very important. The
>>cell
>>phone is part of the communication revolution we are all experiencing.
>>,
>>The internet over which you complain, is another. What is more rude,
>>listening to
>>a complaint or someone cherfully calling a friend. Many people have palm
>>tops and cell phones on the trail these days.
>>
>>Rich
>>
>>
>>--RJ Calliger
>>
>>Mi Wuk Village, California
>>"At Home in The Sierra Nevada Mountains on the PCT/JMT"
>>
>>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>Use email: Never send a tree to do an electron's work.
>>(c) Copyright rj calliger 1995-1999
>>
>> http://www.infolane.net/~calliger OR
>> http://banquo.infolane.com/~calliger
>>
>> /\
>> / \ /\ /\
>>/ \/ \/ \ /\
>> \ \/ \
>> \______\____
>>
>>"Attitude is the brush that paints the picture." -anon
>> "Do, or Do Not -- There is No Try" - Yoda
>>
>>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>>
>>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net
*
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 21:53:02 -0800
>From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] BTU's
>
>My alcohol fuel consumption was just about what yours was. All in all, it
>seemed about the same or LESS than the amount that I use of white gas in my
>Optimus 8R. I don't know why this is so. I suspect that the white gas
>stoves have too large of a flame to be really efficient, and you end up
>using a lot more fuel to boil the same amount of water than if you were
>using a alcohol stove . With my white gas stoves (Optimum, 3 different MSR
>versions), the flame is spilling around the 2 quart pot that I am using, a
>lot of heat is just being lost to the environment, even with a good wind
>screen(you may be heating the windscreen and not just the water). So yes,
>you get a faster boil time with the MSR but use more volume of fuel to do
>it.
>
>What I am saying is that BTU's per volume may be important only to a degree
>and the design of the stove may be such that it negates the advantage of
>one fuel over another. "Managing" a stove is also very important - it is
>easy to double your consumption of fuel in cold, high wind, etc by not
>being cognizant and careful of all the factors that can draw that heat
>away.
>
>The only circumstance that I really wonder about the performance of an
>alcohol stove is melting snow for water. This just takes a very long time
>and a really high quantity of heat. I am not saying that my alcohol stove
>could not do this; I have never done it , so it is just an unknown. In the
>end, it my take so long, that under those conditions where it would be
>required to melt snow on a regular basis, another hotter stove would be a
>better choice. OTOH, it may do almost as well. This will give me
>something to think about when the flurries come.
>
>Goforth
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>End of pct-l-digest V1 #943
>***************************
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | http://www.backcountry.net *
>
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==============================================================================