pct-l-digest V1 #698

>
>pct-l-digest        Thursday, February 25 1999        Volume 01 : Number
698
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
>    Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>    Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>    Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>    Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>    [pct-l] Motel at I-15
>    Re: [pct-l] Motel at I-15
>    [pct-l] Water caches for early starters?
>    Re: [pct-l] Water caches for early starters?
>    [pct-l] Water in Section A
>    Re: [pct-l] Motel at I-15
>    Re: [pct-l] Water in Section A
>    [pct-l] River crossings
>    [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #697
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>    [pct-l] river crossings
>    [pct-l] Mitts
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>    Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:21:47 -0500
>From: "Brett Tucker" <blisterfree@surfree.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>
>Greg wrote:
>
>    Those looking for a more pure experience may choose to pass up the
water
>    and rely on sources off of the trail or carry the extra water
necessary.
>    But, in that light of purity, will you also pass up the water from a
>faucet
>    in a campground, or food available in a store?
>
>    Your points are well taken, I respect your position and I don't take
>this
>    as a flame inciting post nor do I offer this response in flame
>incitation.
>
>Blister replied:
>
>To each, his or her own, without question. I think that those who feel they
>need water support are more than entitled to receive it. Like Carl said,
>though, the most reliable way to outfit oneself with water is to take the
>initiative, get out there pre-journey, and cache the water securely,
>covertly, and while taking good field notes as to location. Most won't do
>this, and so the services being offered here would undoubtedly be helpful.
>And done responsibly, it would probably do more "social" good than
>"ecological" bad. What I worry about is the proverbial slippery slope. Most
>of the time, So Cal is dry. As the years progress, thru-hiking the PCT
grows
>more popular. So water support will always be popular here, and will grow
in
>proportion to the size of the hiking community. Bit by bit, we hack away at
>Nature - more water jugs placed more frequently, accompanied by food
>perhaps, coolers full of beer, "spring registers", and all the other things
>that are making the AT a hike from one curious human offering to another.
>
>When we hike by a campground faucet that offers water, we drink because
it's
>there - we can't do anything about the man-made intrusion, and it _does_
>look inviting, so we acquiesce. Same with food in the stores. To an extent,
>the hike is an opportunistic journey, since most of us would be unwilling
or
>unable to live solely off the land (in the Mojave?). The rub is in keeping
>the opportunities contained to the pre-existing, the reliable, and the
>easily avoidable (for those so inclined). Otherwise, we may one day be
>distracted at every turn in the trail, and we might as well go hiking in
the
>city. Bravo for trail magic - let's all be appreciative when it hits home
>right when we need it - but too much of it and we threaten nature's magic.
>
>So, yes, I'm blowing this thing way out of proportion.  Then again, Y2K was
>hardly a concern, even 2 years ago. :)
>
>Happy trails to all,
>- - Blister
>
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:54:12 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>
>Brett,
>
>To be honest I think that your concerns are unfounded. To equate spotting
water
>along a particulary dry stretch of the PCT with the elimination of nature
seems
>redicilous to one who has just been in the area. However, seeing that all I
have
>heard on this list is disparaging remarks about our plan, perhapse we will
>rethink our support ideas and let everyone struggle. One thing for damn
sure I
>have learned in my life. Don't give someone help who doesn't want it [even
if
>they need it].
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:00:52 -0500
>From: Owen <jrowen@ibm.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>
>reynolds@ilan.com wrote:
>>
>> Brett,
>>
>> To be honest I think that your concerns are unfounded. To equate spotting
water
>> along a particulary dry stretch of the PCT with the elimination of nature
seems
>> redicilous to one who has just been in the area. However, seeing that all
I have
>> heard on this list is disparaging remarks about our plan, perhapse we
will
>> rethink our support ideas and let everyone struggle. One thing for damn
sure I
>> have learned in my life. Don't give someone help who doesn't want it
[even if
>> they need it].
>
>
>Tom -
>Remember what I told you privately not too long ago - that playing
>"Trail Angel" to thruhikers can be a pain in the ***.  But it also has
>its rewards.  Like a lot of other areas in life -- the rewards sometimes
>don't come until after the pain.  Thruhikers are a strange and
>contentious breed.
>
>Walk softly,
>Jim
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:29:07 -0500
>From: "Brett Tucker" <blisterfree@surfree.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>
>Please don't stop your planned support because of any comment on this list.
>Your acts will be more than well-received. The last thing I want to do is
>Monkey Wrench this year's thru-hiking success or happiness factor. Enough
>problems there last year. All I wanted to do was plant the seed of
>self-reliance and LNT (although I'm hardly the ideal spokeperson on this
>issue), at a time when both will only benefit hikers and the trail
corridor,
>on into the future.
>
>Best of luck to all,
>- - Blister
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: reynolds@ilan.com <reynolds@ilan.com>
>To: Brett Tucker <blisterfree@surfree.com>
>Cc: pct-l@backcountry.net <pct-l@backcountry.net>
>Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 2:24 AM
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] 1999 Day Zero Planning
>
>
>>Brett,
>>
>>To be honest I think that your concerns are unfounded. To equate spotting
>water
>>along a particulary dry stretch of the PCT with the elimination of nature
>seems
>>redicilous to one who has just been in the area. However, seeing that all
I
>have
>>heard on this list is disparaging remarks about our plan, perhapse we will
>>rethink our support ideas and let everyone struggle. One thing for damn
>sure I
>>have learned in my life. Don't give someone help who doesn't want it [even
>if
>>they need it].
>>
>>
>>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net
*
>>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:40:02 -0600
>From: lpmcduff@juno.com
>Subject: [pct-l] Motel at I-15
>
>Does anyone know the name, address, and/or phone number of a motel where
>the trail crosses I-15 at Cajon Canyon?
>
>Annie and the Salesman
>
>P.S. Thanks to the water support team.  We appreciate your efforts very
>much.
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:07:28 -0800
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Motel at I-15
>
>At 11:40 AM 2/24/99 -0600, lpmcduff@juno.com wrote:
>>Does anyone know the name, address, and/or phone number of a motel where
>>the trail crosses I-15 at Cajon Canyon?
>>
>>Annie and the Salesman
>>
>>P.S. Thanks to the water support team.  We appreciate your efforts very
>>much.
>
>
>It was "Budget 8" I think, but it was out of business last season. There
>is, however, a new McDonalds on the trail at that intersection. Makes for a
>nice "Wilderness Experience" just before you cross under the Interstate
>Highway in the drainage underpass.
>
>Hike Your own hike.
>
>- -Brick
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:50:17 -0800
>From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Water caches for early starters?
>
>I am in Margo's camp.  I will be going very slowly to began with and have
>serious questions about the longer dry sections in the very South end of
>the trail.
>
>I feel that in the areas more to the North that are just as dry, I will be
>able to deal with by the time I get there.  I think that Carl Mear"s
>position is well taken, but I do feel that conditioning does happen, feet
>do toughen up, and a lot of details are worked out after the first couple
>weeks.
>
>It bothers me the PCT is simply compared to the AT because someone wants to
>stash water for someone else.  There seems to be no sentiments about
>stashing water for one's self.  Why is it a problem when someone does it
>for another person?  Are the people that are objecting going to be hiking
>that section in April?
>
>Do the trail angels have any idea of the time that the water will be put
>out?  I will be starting before the main group (late March) and will take
>all the help that I can get?
>
>All help and kindness much appreciated,
>Goforth
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:51:46 -0800
>From: Jeff Eckert <jeeter@cari.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water caches for early starters?
>
>Joanne Lennox wrote:
>
>> <snip>  I will be starting before the main group (late March) <snip>
>
>gettin' pretty close, eh?  How much do you have left to take care of ? (he
said
>with a big grin)
>
>Jeff Eckert
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:38:43 -0800
>From: "Chris Bailey" <hikertrash@earthlink.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Water in Section A
>
>I don't want to get involved in any dispute over the offers of water
>caching in Section A, but for '99 hopefuls who are debating what to do, I
>do want to offer a slight correction to Greg's post about the availability
>of water from Mt. Laguna to Barrel Springs, as well as some reflections on
>the Campo situation vis a vis Tom's post.
>
>While it's true that even in a wet year, one cannot expect to find any
>water between Scissors Crossing and Barrel Springs, in late April of
>both'97 and '98 water was not that hard to come by between Mt. Laguna and
>Scissors Crossing.  It may also be the case that many of the man-made water
>sources in this stretch were not turned on (or filled) when the scouting
>party was out, but will be by the time thru-hikers start heading through.
>In both years I was told by volunteers near Mt. Laguna that such and such
>source had just been filled/turned on.
>
>In both years, it was available right off the trail at the Desert View
>Picnic Area bathroom; via a short .2 mile detour at 47.7 to Laguna/El Prado
>Campground (which also has coin showers); via a short detour at the GATR
>road to water near the Noble Canyon Trailhead (discussed in the '98
>Wilderness Press update); at Pioneer Mail Picnic Area, either from the tank
>(in '97) or from the headwaters of Cottonwood Canyon (in '98); on the trail
>at a couple of the upper tributaries of Oriflamme Canyon (in '98); via a
>1.7 mile detour (each way) to Cuyamaca Reservoir (or 1.6 further along the
>detour to Los Caballos Campground); at the fire cistern near where the
>trail cross the Mason Valley Truck Trail; where the trail crosses Chariot
>Canyon Road (in '98)(if you don't find it right there, there are fairly
>large pools just a few hundred yards downstream along the road that may
>hold water longer; the creek sometimes submerges in this area and then
>reappears downstream) or down the road as far as necessary to find water in
>the creek or at one of the mines; at the excellent spring via a 1.3 mile
>detour (each way) down the Rodriguez Spur Truck Trail.  From here to
>Scissors Crossing don't expect to find any water, even in a wet year.
>
>In '97, I took water at Scissors Crossing and didn't find it bad at all.
>In '98, I resupplied in Julian, which, though 13.5 miles away, I found to
>be a very nice, friendly town, though it lacks a laundromat and cheap
>lodging.  (I recommend Mama's Cafe for an outstanding, huge breakfast or
>Romano's for excellent Italian).  One can get to Julian via public transit
>on Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays at 8:45 a.m. from the bus stop at
>Scissors Crossing.  Banner, 5 miles from Scissors Crossing has a little
>store where you could get water and treats.
>
>Obviously, in drought years (which this year might be?) some of these
>sources won't be running.  I simply want to let folks know that the
>situation may not require cached water if you'd prefer to avoid such
>assistance.
>
>Concerning Campo:  My understanding is that the increase in illegal
>crossings near Campo caused by a crack-down further west has been going on
>for at least several years.  In this time, I haven't heard of any real
>problems, other than a little lost sleep due to aircraft, vehicle and foot
>patrols.  Lynne Whelden tells a funny story at the beginning of his video
>about encountering a group of illegals, but apparently there wasn't any
>trouble.  I didn't see any illegals in '97 or '98 and I camped within a few
>miles of the border in '97.  One of the bus drivers on the route from El
>Cajon to Campo seems to enjoy scaring the bejesus out of hikers with
>stories (probably untrue) and this phenomenon seems to have become
>widespread, with other trail "authorities" perpetuating the hype.  I really
>believe that the vast majority of illegals crossing near here are not drug
>"mules," but simply poor Mexicans trying to make a better life for
>themselves by washing our dishes and mowing our lawns.  I imagine the last
>thing they want is to confront some unknown anglo backpackers and steal
>their food, water or gear.  The more dangerous drug mules have probably
>found an easier way into the U.S. than to travel miles cross-country in
>head-high chapparal and thickets of poison oak, over rugged terrain, in the
>cold of night or heat of day.  They'd rather leave that for us brilliant
>thru-hikers.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Chris.
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:09:02 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Motel at I-15
>
>If you are planning to use our services please let us know. How many and
start
>date. Please check our schedule carefully and try to make the ADZPCTK. We
may
>secure the water so that only those requesting assistance will have access
to
>it.
>
>In my less than humble opinion I would do whatever I could to use,
including
>rearranging my schedule, to take advantage of  water support in Section A.
You
>will have enough trouble getting your pack, boots, routine and body into
>thruhiking shape without dying of thirst in the first 100 miles. You will
have
>plenty of time to learn to carry 16 pounds of water north of Warner Springs
and
>lots of experience in the Mojave scouting for water and backing without
enough
>of it.
>
>Besides, if you can pass up FREE beer and grub you ain't no PCT thruhiker.
((:
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:56:49 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water in Section A
>
>Chris is right that the water south of Pioneer Mail Picnic area may be
turned
>on. Currently, it is off. The Forest Service people we talked to thought
that
>the water would be turned on just before Memorial Day. One of our action
items
>is to find out this date for you 99 hopefuls and post it. If this water is
on
>there will not be a problem till you get to Pioneer Mail Picnic area.
>
>There is lots of conflicting information about water between Pioneer Mail
and
>Scissors Crossing. A local, in Julian, flat said that there was no water. I
>pointed out the water marked on the map [the fire cistern] and he said "No
>Water". This doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about or that he
thought
>of "fire-fighting water" as "water". We are not saying that you can't get
to
>Scissors Crossing without a water cache. However, if that "fire-fighting"
supply
>is not available, you are looking at long detours from the trail. 1997 was
a
>"wet" year, 1998 was "extraordinarily wet" and 1999 promises to be "dry to
very
>dry"
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:53:08 -0800
>From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>Can anybody tell which rivers in the Sierras posed the most problems for
>crossing.  Which rivers early in the season needed to be crossed early in
>the morning and were too deep by noon.  Any alternatives to the normal PCT
>crossings?
>
>I am short and short legged and have found that if a creek or river is
>flowing FAST, I am unable to keep my feet on the river bottom when it is at
>or above my knees(18").  I am much more concerned about river crossings
>than the High Sierra Passes.  And although Jardine talks some about
>crossings, he goes into no detail on which rivers can be real problems
>
>I am acquainted with Bear Creek and crossed it above the PCT crossing, one
>tributary at a time.  That worked well.  Any others?
>
>goforth
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: 24 Feb 1999 22:37:21 GMT
>From: Laurel_J._Menoche@evs.wa.com (Laurel J. Menoche)
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: pct-l-digest V1 #697
>
>pct-l@edina.hack.net,EVS Internet writes:
>Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:54:26 -0600
>From: Andrew Yip <AndrewY@micrografx.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Northwest training hike
>
>I thought I'd borrow an idea from Rebecca and see if anyone in the Pacific
>Northwest area was interested in a training hike. The Columbia Gorge might
>be a good place, since it is still mostly snow free. Any takers?
>
>I would be interested!  Please keep me informed!
>
>Laurel
>Seattle
>
>LaurelM@evs.wa.com
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:50:31 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>There is a 'Forecast of Snow Melt in the Sierra' page that I used to
estimate
>river crossings last year [a very wet year]. It is too early to tell about
this
>year.
>
>In general JMT crossings ain't bad:
>1-Wallace Creek shouldn't be too bad
>2-Coming down fro Glen Pass the trail and the stream mix. Wet but not
dangerous.
>Ditto the crossing between the two Rae Lakes
>3-Woods Creek is crossed on a bridge
>4-The Kings could be fast and dangerous.
>5-The first wide crossing is at Evolution Valley
>6-I don't remember Bear Creek being a problem
>7-Rush Creek is {was} crossable on a log [how are you with logs]
>8-The Crossing of Lyell Creek north of Donahue Pass could be interesting
>
>You will find that dual hiking sticks an immeasurable help. Last year my
party
>crossed Wallace Creek [on the Kern, a much more difficult crossing than on
the
>PCT] without incident. Later that day a very sturdy man fell into a hole up
to
>his neck and gashed his leg badly. I remembered that hole, I told him. I
put
>down a foot and didn't find the bottom so I pulled my foot back up and went
>another way. Why could I do this. I had four points of contact, not two or
>three.
>
>Are you haikinga lone and, If not, do you know how to use a rope to cross?
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:39:20 -0800
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>Experiences vary.
>
>In 95 in July I found
>
>>1-Wallace Creek
>
>I had to cross about a mile upstream on a log because the trail ford was
>unpassable.
>
>>4-The Kings could be fast and dangerous.
>
>Crossed on a log about a mile upstream from the trail ford. There was a
>well worn trail to the log. The river was raging and was splashing over the
>log, which was slimy and wet. A fall would have been fatal. Nice way to
>spend an afternoon.
>
>>5-The first wide crossing is at Evolution Valley
>
>Had to cross on the Old Trail in the meadow, as the current trail ford was
>unpassable. The new trail ford is just upstream from a rather long
>waterfall, not a good place to go swimming. The Evolution Valley Ranger
>advised me to do this (Thanks George!) and boy was he ever right.
>
>The old trail ford in the meadow got up to 4' deep in places and I thought
>I was going swimming, but the water was very slow (but cold - 32F).
>
>>6-I don't remember Bear Creek being a problem
>
>I got washed away trying to cross Bear Creek, and ended up with a 12" gash
>in my leg (not too deep). It didn't start to bleed for several minutes
>becasue my skin was so cold. I didn't feel it for a long time. I actually
>found the gash when I went to take my shoes off to dry them and found my
>sock bloody.
>
>Oh, I forgot, It was about 38 degrees F and had recently stopped raining.
>The water was about 32F and I swam out (on the same side I entered) about
>10 yards down stream. I tried to start a fire in the ring that was at the
>ford (stacked wood there too) but everyghing was too wet, and I had a hard
>time with my fire starting tools because my hands were shaking too much.
>
>If you go upstream a couple of miles, you pass a confluence of 3 smaller
>streams, and each one is passable by jumping (the streams had cut deep
>gashes in solid granite), or on logs.
>
>>8-The Crossing of Lyell Creek north of Donahue Pass could be interesting
>
>I thought all those crossings were on bridges?
>
>>
>>Are you haikinga lone and, If not, do you know how to use a rope to cross?
>
>If you know of a way for one person to use a rope for fording a creek
>safely, Id really like to know about it.
>
>I've heard of several folks drowning because they were using a rope to
>cross. It is my understanding that a rope is only helpful if it is attached
>on both sides.
>
>- -Brick
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:55:40 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>1-Lyell Creek. The last crossing has no bridge
>2-Crossing with 1 person requires a long rope. A rope across a river is
>dangerous. That is how people get killed. The rope should be at a 45 degree
>angle [upstream] from the most dangerous section. The runout should be
clear and
>without anything that could hold you under. If you fall, flip on your back.
Your
>head will create a wake with little pocket of air. The current will push
you to
>the side. [Experienced Stunt Man. Don't try this at home]. Crossing alone
>requires double the rope. Loop it around the convient tree located in the
>perfect spot. Getting a pack across requires two people
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:49:55 GMT
>From: horseam@flahorse.com (Horseback America)
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>>If you know of a way for one person to use a rope for fording a creek
>>safely, Id really like to know about it.
>>
>
>Rope crossing is very dangerous. My wife and I do a lot of kayaking and I
>have had to make a couple rescues in terrible currents. When backpacking
>alone, I would loop the rope around the tree so that it is doubled. When
you
>get to the other side, let go of one end so you can retrieve the rope. With
>a 100 foot rope, you only get 50 foot use. It takes quite an angle to cross
>and a lot of rope. The more angle you cross at, the more stable you are. I
>am sure you have all heard to never tie yourself off. If you slipped, the
>rope would hold you under water. Cold water can zap your energy and can
>threaten your ablity to think clearly! You may have found that out Brick.
>Thank God you made it out!
>
>Dane
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:40:41 -0800
>From: "Bernie Krausse" <bern@olypen.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] river crossings
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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> =20
>Remember that everything in life is relative.  Bear Creek to me was easy =
>to cross, but one slip up and you can be injured or dead.  The person =
>that I was with almost went into shock because of his fears.  Mistakes =
>are made when you are not focused.  Also keep in mind that on the wider =
>crossings the best route is not necessarily straight across but finding =
>the higher points in the river while zigzaging your way across it.  =
>Therefore, use common sense and adapt to the moment.  No two places are =
>the same.
>=20
>
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><DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#008080>Remember that everything in life is=20
>relative.&nbsp; Bear Creek to me was easy to cross, but one slip up and =
>you can=20
>be injured or dead.&nbsp; The person that I was with almost went into =
>shock=20
>because of his fears.&nbsp; Mistakes are made when you are not =
>focused.&nbsp;=20
>Also keep in mind that on the wider crossings the best route is not =
>necessarily=20
>straight across but finding the higher points in the river while =
>zigzaging your=20
>way across it.&nbsp; Therefore, use common sense and adapt to the =
>moment.&nbsp;=20
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>- ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01BE6025.2DF8F760--
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:19:45 -0500
>From: Ed <tiger1@fuse.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Mitts
>
>I'm evaluating mittens for an eventual trip up Denali.  So far I've been
considering
>the Marmot Expedition Mitten and the OR Pro Mod Mitts with double liners.
However,
>being a flatlander in the midwest (which escaped any real winter again this
year),
>I've not had a chance to make a realistic comparison.
>
>Has anyone had any experience with either of these, or any recommendations
of other
>mitts?
>
>Thanks
>
>Ed
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:48:39 -0800
>From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cio.net>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>Brick,
>
>Concerning the Evolution Creek crossing, you mention the old trail
>crossing, is that upstream from the new trail crossing?  You mentioned a
>"meadow"  :on the map there is macClure meadow and Evolution meadow
>upstream.  I also noticed that there is a sizeable creek crossing of a
>creek coming down from Glacier Divide (mapH12, pg 263) just before reaching
>the new ford, where is the old trail crossing in relation to these
>features?
>
>You mentioned Kerrick creek before, seems that was okay if you get to a log
>crossing early enough in the day.  Were there any other difficult crossings
>North of Tuolume?
>
>Goforth
>
>- ----------
>> From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>> To: reynolds@ilan.com; goforth@cio.net
>> Cc: pct-mailing list <PCT-L@backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>> Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 3:39 PM
>>
>> Experiences vary.
>>
>> In 95 in July I found
>>
>> >1-Wallace Creek
>>
>> I had to cross about a mile upstream on a log because the trail ford was
>> unpassable.
>>
>> >4-The Kings could be fast and dangerous.
>>
>> Crossed on a log about a mile upstream from the trail ford. There was a
>> well worn trail to the log. The river was raging and was splashing over
>the
>> log, which was slimy and wet. A fall would have been fatal. Nice way to
>> spend an afternoon.
>>
>> >5-The first wide crossing is at Evolution Valley
>>
>> Had to cross on the Old Trail in the meadow, as the current trail ford
>was
>> unpassable. The new trail ford is just upstream from a rather long
>> waterfall, not a good place to go swimming. The Evolution Valley Ranger
>> advised me to do this (Thanks George!) and boy was he ever right.
>>
>> The old trail ford in the meadow got up to 4' deep in places and I
>thought
>> I was going swimming, but the water was very slow (but cold - 32F).
>>
>> >6-I don't remember Bear Creek being a problem
>>
>> I got washed away trying to cross Bear Creek, and ended up with a 12"
>gash
>> in my leg (not too deep). It didn't start to bleed for several minutes
>> becasue my skin was so cold. I didn't feel it for a long time. I actually
>> found the gash when I went to take my shoes off to dry them and found my
>> sock bloody.
>>
>> Oh, I forgot, It was about 38 degrees F and had recently stopped raining.
>> The water was about 32F and I swam out (on the same side I entered) about
>> 10 yards down stream. I tried to start a fire in the ring that was at the
>> ford (stacked wood there too) but everyghing was too wet, and I had a
>hard
>> time with my fire starting tools because my hands were shaking too much.
>>
>> If you go upstream a couple of miles, you pass a confluence of 3 smaller
>> streams, and each one is passable by jumping (the streams had cut deep
>> gashes in solid granite), or on logs.
>>
>> >8-The Crossing of Lyell Creek north of Donahue Pass could be interesting
>>
>> I thought all those crossings were on bridges?
>>
>> >
>> >Are you haikinga lone and, If not, do you know how to use a rope to
>cross?
>>
>> If you know of a way for one person to use a rope for fording a creek
>> safely, Id really like to know about it.
>>
>> I've heard of several folks drowning because they were using a rope to
>> cross. It is my understanding that a rope is only helpful if it is
>attached
>> on both sides.
>>
>> -Brick
>> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net
>*
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:56:30 -0800
>From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>At 03:55 PM 2/24/99 -0800, reynolds@ilan.com wrote:
>>1-Lyell Creek. The last crossing has no bridge
>
>I'm looking at California Guidebook maps H22 and H23, and I remember that
>(northbound) the first crossing of Lyell creek is way up high and has no
>bridge, but doesn't ever need one. Then after you drop down onto the shelf
>where upper basecamp is, there are two bridges, then when you get down to
>the valley floor, you stay on the west side, till you get near Toulumne
>Meadows, then if you stay "pure" and go to Toulomne Meadows High Sierra
>Camp you cross over another foot bridge. If you go straight to the store,
>you keep to the same side of the river till you get to the road.
>
>>2-Crossing with 1 person requires a long rope. A rope across a river is
>>dangerous. That is how people get killed.
>
>Sounds too dangerous to me.
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 03:40:37 -0800
>From: reynolds@ilan.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] River crossings
>
>Re: Upper base camp bridge
>Ain't there, or at least wasn't a few years ago.  There is a couple of
bridges
>further down.
>
>
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>
>------------------------------
>
>End of pct-l-digest V1 #698
>***************************
>
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