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Fw: [pct-l] LNT and individual responsibility



Because Charlie Thorpe sent a reply to my post which was privately posted;
and there is some mention that some people just want to use scouts as
scapegoats, I felt that I should post my original private message.

Both my Husband and his son were associated with scouting; I have many
friends who lead scout troops.  I have seen many scouts in the wilderness,
some of which are models of good behavior.  It was a scout troop however
that nearly killed my husband and I while climbing, I have never been
subject to any other  such incidence by non scouting personel.

I repeat: anything that you can do to educate scouts on minimum impact is
will appreciated.  If you can get them(or the rest of the world) to follow
the scout code, it would be an improvement.

I still feel that the PCT-1 is not the place to run an education program on
LNT.  In the guise of saving the fragile PCT, you feel that you NEED to
inform others and thus save them from their own lack of awareness, lack of
motivation , and lack of skill to do what you feel is necessary to save the
environment. Yet, you say that "My personal actions are the only thing that
I have control over!"
I think we agree on that one.  The correlary is that you have no control
over other peoples action.

And I have not"given up" on anything.  I have my own methods.  It seems
that  to tell the people on this mailing list to"plan ahead"  (LNT rule #
1)is redundant if not condesending.

And I am sorry to hear that, like the scouts, thruhikers do not live up to
your standards of minimum impact.

Lastly, I would like you to consider that you may actually be doing some
damage.  In a course that I was in , one of the students decided to change
his environmental philosophy to LAT (Leave A Trace).  In a response to what
he saw as self-righteous attitudes, nonmainstream and radical approaches,
and a nattering unable-to-leave-him-alone "teacher", this student told me
that when he got a chance he was"going to leave every trace I can". 
Sometimes the actions with the deepest motivation can have the opposite
effect.  Someone recently on this post said that advice unsought is really
criticism. 

Peace
Goforth
----------
> From: Joanne Lennox <goforth@cio.net>
> To: Charlie Thorpe <charliethorpe@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] LNT and individual responsibility
> Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 10:57 AM
> 
> I Got my LNT "education" on a 3 week NOLS course.  
> 
> If you can educate Boy Scouts in any way it would probably help.  My
> experience has been predominantly very negative.( Including an almost
fatal
> incident of mountain climbing a steep route and having a Boy Scout troop,
> who were on top, amuse themselves by pitching rocks down on us). The fact
> that the Scouting experience was not open to any female that I know does
> not help my view of Scouting (there has been numerous males on this list
> that credit scouting with bringing them to the wilderness, as far as I
know
> not a single female has said this).  I have meet many many scouts in the
> wilderness; I have never met a single female scout, in or out of the
> wilderness.
> 
> The LNT principles sound okay on the surface.  However they seem to be
> immediately translated in to shoulds and shouldn't.  Charlie Thorpe: "We
> need to always(always Always ALWAYS) choose a legal established campsite
if
> we can find one that even comes close to meeting our needs".
> 
> I don't feel that there should be a campaign to be ecologically correct
on
> the PCT-1; It doesn't seem an appropriate forum to advocate and
proseletize
> a specific position on how we SHOULD live in the wilderness. It seems
that
> the majority of people on this mailing list are experienced, thoughtful
> hikers.
> 
> Better that you should try to educate the Horses on leaving no trace on
the
> trail.  Now there is a real challenge!
> 
> Peace, Goforth
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----------
> > From: Charlie Thorpe <charliethorpe@worldnet.att.net>
> > To: pct-l@backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] LNT and individual responsibility
> > Date: Wednesday, January 06, 1999 11:13 PM
> > 
> > Hello Joanne -
> > 
> > I am guessing that it might surprise you to find out that I agree with
> > about 90% of what you write about LNT <g>.
> > 
> > We ARE very much talking personal ethics instead of blanket rules.
> > 
> > You joined the list recently enough to have missed last spring's
posting
> to
> > the list of my series of messages introducing LNT.  I will attach a
Word
> > file containing these messages to a private message to you.  This
> compiled
> > digest is the one that is slanted toward Scout use, but I will be happy
> to
> > do one up without the Scout references if you prefer.  If you get a
> chance,
> > please scan them over and then tell me where they miss the mark.
> > 
> > I would be interested in knowing where (and with whom) you took your
LNT
> > training.  Something must have been left out...the objections you raise
> to
> > having a program like LNT are EXACTLY why the LNT program was invented
in
> > the first place!
> > 
> > BTW, have you seen Bob McConnell's book "Gentle Expeditions"?
> > 
> > Thanks for the LNT observations!
> > 
> > Trace No Leaves,
> > 
> > - Charlie
> > 
> > 
> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net
 
> *
> 
* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *

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