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Re: [pct-l] True wilderness/ice axe

....BTW, I've got mixed feeling about all these No Trace, Wilderness, and
Bear threads appearing right now. This is when Class '98 is heading out,
and I feel-in-my-heart that the focus should be on them, not debates that
can be held any old time..... Oh well, here goes:

>what 'true wilderness' is in your minds. We Europeans          Phillipe

   Ah, Phillipe, on a Usenet group your post would be considered a
"troll": a question or attention-getting statement designed to begin 
endless no-win debate [G]... In the past,  "true wilderness" threads have
been a nightmare!
   I didn't mean to provoke a Rousseau vs the yuppies-type discussion on
"What Constitues True Wilderness (the usual subject-header for the topic
when it appears on the internet); the phrase was used in the context of
bemoaning the themepark/museum fate of our natural areas.
   And what is a "natural" area, sigh? Well, there're basically two
choices of camp: you can insist that Man and His Works are all
part-of-nature (in that case, New York City is a natural area), or
exclude Man from the equation - god knows we try - and that leaves the
impossible definition "sans human impact". All of this in a very general
way, since the brief/casual nature of this medium doesn't lend itself at
all to deep philosophical argument. You can also lean toward one of the
two poles depending on your particular needs, or you can place yourself
in the middle - a position akin to Undecided on a ballot.
  Granted, everybody's definition of reality is formed by their own
experience; for instance, my personal experience of non-urban places
years ago lead me to post about the destruction/alteration of those very
places in my brief lifetime - some one born today might be awed by "how
much" wilderness exists and "how wild" it is. One often sees comments
that Wilderness (even as we know it) is *too* wild and there should be
more amenities! The point of my post was that "wilderness" (true or
otherwise) isn't as wild, pristine, whatever, as it used to be, before we
started messing with/in it, and I suggested  we must treasure and protect
what semblance remains instead of assuming what is left today is "good
enough" and will exist in that state forever no matter what we do. As an
individual, I like the vague Before Man's Large-scale Exploition
definition of wilderness and would like to see most areas enlarged,
less-developed, animal populations reinstated, etc.... am also big on
Clean Air, Fresh Water, Good Manners - whatever *they* mean.       bj



>I am hiking from Donner Pass to Mt. Whitney, starting July 20.  At what
>point do I need an ice ax?  Should I carry one the whole way with this
>year's heavy snows? Richard

   You might not need one at all; depends on your personal security on
steep snow, and if you insist on walking on early-morning ice, or if
you'll hike off-trail. There should still be snow on the High Passes, but
many people will have worn a path through it on the trails by late July.
I do recommend ski poles for balance...    bj

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