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pct-l-digest V1 #272
- Subject: pct-l-digest V1 #272
pct-l-digest Wednesday, October 15 1997 Volume 01 : Number 272
In this issue:
[pct-l] the horse wars
[pct-l] Test
RE: [pct-l] Test
[pct-l] re: test
Re: [pct-l] the horse wars
Re: [pct-l] the horse wars
[pct-l] Ice axes and Horses
[pct-l] The horse issue and ALDHA-West
[pct-l] re: horses
[pct-l] list
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:21:17 -0700
From: brick@ix.netcom.com
Subject: [pct-l] the horse wars
I wonder if someone could answer me on this one.
Are there any through hikers who have seen both horse damage AND logging
who think that all this effort should be expended on arguing about horses
on the trail?
Just wondering.
- --
Brick Robbins
San Diego, CA
brick@ix.netcom.com
http://www.netcom.com/~brick
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:19:00 -0500
From: Ken Marlow <kmarlow@ngs.org>
Subject: [pct-l] Test
Hello all,
I recently received a computer upgrade (yeh!). In the process my network
confiquration changed, and oddly, just a handful of my e-mail address were
lost. Is anyone on the list receiving this? Your response would be
appreciated.
Ken Marlow
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 07:14:32 PDT
From: "James N. Aliferis" <jna@jna-japan-marketing.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Test
got it
- ---------------Original Message---------------
Hello all,
I recently received a computer upgrade (yeh!). In the process my network
confiquration changed, and oddly, just a handful of my e-mail address were
lost. Is anyone on the list receiving this? Your response would be
appreciated.
Ken Marlow
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- ----------End of Original Message----------
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 09:08:00 -0500
From: Ken Marlow <kmarlow@ngs.org>
Subject: [pct-l] re: test
Thanks all! Seems to be working!
Ken Marlow
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:38:29 PDT
From: Jim Mayer <mayer@wrc.xerox.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] the horse wars
At 10:21 PM 10/13/97 PDT, brick@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>I wonder if someone could answer me on this one.
>
>Are there any through hikers who have seen both horse damage AND logging
>who think that all this effort should be expended on arguing about horses
>on the trail?
>
>Just wondering.
I've seen both, but only in the East (where I hike). They both upset me,
but in different ways. The horse damage that bothers me the most is from
illegal traffic. I was on a beautiful section of the Susquehannock trail
in PA this summer. The Susquehannock trail is a footpath only trail, and
this section was only a couple of foot wide path notched into a steep
hilside. You could see where the trail had given way under the horses
hooves. Where the horses had gone around blowdown the ground was
completely torn up. Also, I had to spend two days smelling fresh horse
shit. On top of that, I felt that the riders had put their animals in
considerable danger. I was pissed.
The same area of PA was completely logged around the turn of the century.
The logging practices then were horrible... the forest was clearcut and the
trimmed branches were left lying... to burn in uncontrollable wildfires
that sterilized the ground. Erosion finished the job. Today, there are
still areas where the stumps of the old trees are the only indication that
anything grew there other than lichen.
Anyway, while inconsiderate behavior by a few selfish people pisses me off,
I don't think it really compares to the wholesale environmental devestation
that primitive logging practices causes.
- -- Jim Mayer
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:16:21 -0500
From: Kelly Flowers <kkflower@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] the horse wars
At 08:38 AM 10/14/97 PDT, you wrote:
>At 10:21 PM 10/13/97 PDT, brick@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>I wonder if someone could answer me on this one.
>
>Are there any through hikers who have seen both horse damage AND logging
>who think that all this effort should be expended on arguing about horses
>on the trail?
>
Having encountered both horses and logging not just on the PCT, but on a
wide variety of trails and under differing conditions, and being an
Oregonian, there's simply no contest in my mind. Logging -- as presently
practiced -- leads to far more and longer-term damage, hands down. Yes,
some packers are rude, picket their stock right next to water sources, etc.,
but most I've met have been courteous and lawful. Frankly, there are hikers
who do as much damage as horses. And, even worse in my experience, are
free-roaming cattle, as far as polluting water sources, overgrazing fragile
areas, and damage to the trail (where they have access to it).
Kelly Flowers
kkflower@students.wisc.edu
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:16:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: ChsyHkr@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Ice axes and Horses
Why don't we take our Ice Axes to the Horses.
Oh, bad idea.
Walking on,
Cheesy.
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:25:56 -0800
From: rogercar@pacifier.com (Roger Carpenter)
Subject: [pct-l] The horse issue and ALDHA-West
It seems to me the horse issue gets so much talk but so little positive
action. Now that hiking season is nearly over along much of the PCT, some
of us have resumed stewing over horses on the PCT. Sometimes, when this
issue is mentioned, ALDHA-West and Ray Jardine manage to find their way into
the discussion. Bob Turner, in his post yesterday, pointed out that many
ALDHA-West members are also PCTA members. Let me elaborate.
Ray Jardine was very outspoken in his opposition to horses in ALDHA-West's
Distance Hiker Gazette publication (1994 and 1995), when Ray ran ALDHA-West
as an extention of his publishing business. Back then, most of the opinions
expressed in the Gazette were generally in agreement with his own (and there
was nothing wrong with that; it was his business). In October, 1995, Ray
discontinued ALDHA, and many of the subscribers formed a new, democratically
run organization complete with elected officers, bylaws, etc. Ray, who is
still one of our members, was kind enough to let us use the ALDHA-West name.
I have had the impression since those heady days of Ray's ALDHA-West that
many folks still associate ALDHA-West with Ray Jardine and the anti-horse
"movement". However, nothing could be further from the truth. As a
democratically run organization, or only condition of membership is that the
member supports long distance hiking. You will not be denied membership or
participation based on your opinions on horses or any other issue. We
encourage open communication, but we have no political mandate. I have been
an officer of the "new" ALDHA since October, 1995, and not one member has
come to me to encouraged us to take a stand towards ridding the PCT of
equestrians.
I will also say that some of our members do feel horses should be banned,
and many feel horses are okay. That's great. But ALDHA-West is simply an
organization that promotes fellowship among long distance hikers. The idea
is to bring us together, not tear us apart with divisive issues. Besides,
we are much smaller than the PCTA or most other national organizations.
At our most recent gathering earlier this month, one of our members, O.D.
Coyote, came to the meeting with an extensive manifesto mostly full of his
rebuttals of David Porter's "Trail Name" article in the Gazette. At first I
feared that this would become another divisive issue. In the end, happily,
we had some fun with it and we left with no hard feelings.
Personally, I would rather not jump into the debate about horses. I am not
an equestrian, and I feel uncomfortable near such large animals. Many of
the posts here have some great ideas on how to mitigate the damage caused by
horse traffic on the PCT.
Yesterday, Carol Barrett, an equestrian user of the PCT, told us she rarely
sees hiker groups repairing the trails. The reality is that many hikers
volunteer hundreds of hours for trail maintenance. But Carol correctly
pointed out that equestrian groups have adopted trail sections to maintain.
I appreciate their efforts, and the hikers' efforts, too!
Carol also mentioned her annual trail ride in the Piutes, which is very
close to the severely damaged area near Bird Spring Pass caused by ILLEGAL
motorcycle use of the PCT. In my opinion, this area is the most significant
example of trail misuse and abuse along the entire 2600+ mile route. In
1995 a BLM employee from that district told me they had only $2,000 in their
annual budget for trail maintenance. That's paltry attention to correct a
huge problem. To have a positive impact on the PCT, I suggest hikers and
equestrians focus on where we can work together to keep our trail healthy!
Roger Carpenter
Secretary/Treasure, ALDHA-West
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:46:51 -0600
From: lemieux@cyberport.net (Laurie Lemieux)
Subject: [pct-l] re: horses
This is just another opinion, but since I work for the government I see a
lot of bickering over political issues. Why can't we as a culture just get
along. Horses cause problems, so do hikers. We sure are stuck up on
ourselves since we can't ever seem to see the other persons point of view.
Ah well, here's to those who volunteer to keep the trail in a condition so
we can ALL enjoy them.
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:09:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Levendissa@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] list
please remove from list.
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End of pct-l-digest V1 #272
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