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[pct-l] Re: bivy sacks
- Subject: [pct-l] Re: bivy sacks
- From: Bill Person <billp@psw3.com>
- Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 06:21:10 -0700
LL Bean makes a $99 gortex bivy which has mosquito net but no hoops or
poles. Very light weight. Carried it on the AT last year with a silk
sleeping bag liner and with NO sleeping bag. Good summer choice.
At 12:00 AM 8/1/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>pct-l-digest Friday, August 1 1997 Volume 01 : Number 210
>
>
>
>In this issue:
>
> Re: [pct-l] Bivy Sack opinions
> RE: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
> [none]
> Re: [pct-l] Bivy Sack opinions
> [pct-l] Re: Bivy Sack
> [pct-l] Off for the JMT, and everything else
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 02:15:11 -0400 (EDT)
>From: NoHorses@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bivy Sack opinions
>
>The newest issue of Climbing Magazine has a review of bivi sacks
>
>
>Mike
>http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/6736
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
http://www.hack.net/lists *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:26:36 -0400
>From: EAcheson@frojac.com
>Subject: RE: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
>
>FWIT, I've been considering the Eureka Solitaire (if its the one with
>aluminum rather than fiberglass poles) for a while. It seems to me to
>be an excellent choice from a size (easily big enough for one) and
>weight (about 2 lbs, 8 oz). Although its only 2'10" high (or is it 2'8"
>and weighs 2 lb 10 oz?) its a bit short, but matches my height. I don't
>really consider it a bivy, but a good compromise between weight and
>functionality of a "typical" tent.
>
>My biggest concern is about Eureka's quality. I just bought the Equinox
>4, a family sized tent (some insist on being able to stand in a tent),
>and while it held up well for 10 days in the Boundary Waters, there are
>some things I didn't like. The zippers were always hard to use (I
>recall the same problem on a friend's Timberline in 1980), hanging up
>every time I opened the door. The poles supporting the rain fly awning
>fit into grommets, which were open to mosquitoes (which are bad in the
>BWCA) when the rain fly wasn't used. The tent pegs were a joke, leaving
>me wondering why Eureka even bothered to supply them with the tent. (I
>replaced them with the Kelty pegs based on the recent evaluation of tent
>pegs by Backpacker, which worked well). The stuff sack for the tent was
>not very durable, and became cut in several places. Even the stuff sack
>for the tent poles, which was always rolled inside of the tent, inside
>of the outer stuff sack, was cut by the poles, allowing the short poles
>to slip out. In contrast, the stuff sack from my Sierra Designs tent
>has endured 4 months of the PCT without any holes.
>
>My understanding of Gore Tex on tents is that it doesn't work that well.
>I've been told that it is body heat that drives the water vapor
>molecules through the pores, which is why it will work for rain suits
>(if so, why is Gore Tex used for sleeping bags which should have the
>same problem?). A tent shouldn' t be close enough to you for your body
>heat to be a factor.
>
>Ed Acheson
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: INTERNET:robertkn@mdhost.cse.tek.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 12:12 PM
>> To: INTERNET:pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
>>
>> Sender: owner-pct-l@saffron.hack.net
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>> <pct-l@saffron.hack.net>; Wed,
>> 30 Jul 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> Received: (from robertkn@localhost) by yangtze.cse.tek.com
>> (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07
>> 590; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Robert Knoth <robertkn@mdhost.cse.tek.com>
>> X-Sender: robertkn@yangtze.cse.tek.com
>> To: pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
>> Message-ID:
>> <Pine.SUN.3.91.970730094834.4565R-100000@yangtze.cse.tek.com>
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>> Sender: owner-pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> Precedence: bulk
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am going to be doing some solo backpacking soon, and have been
>> curious
>> about bivy sacks. I have never used one, and found that outdoor
>> stores
>> (REI, etc...) do not rent them. So, what are people's general
>> opinions
>> of them? Besides the usual of very little space, and not good in a
>> blizzard, what are your experiences with them? I am planning on also
>> rigging up a tarp to use as a mock vestibule. I was looking at models
>>
>> from Eureka (the Solitare), Slumberjack, and Outdoor Research's
>> Advanced
>> Bivy. Any horror stories? Is condensation as much of a problem as I
>> have heard? Would the gore-tex in the OR bivy help this, or is it
>> mostly hype? Up to now the info I have read/heard is from Outdoor
>> research, and sales people. I know OR wouldn't badmouth their own
>> stuff,
>> and the sales people are not going to stop me from buying their big
>> ticket gore-tex bivy either. So, any good third-party opinions? The
>> weather
>> I am expecting is 3 season stuff in Oregon, mostly in the Cascades,
>> but
>> who knows where else...
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Rob Knoth
>>
>> (Opionions here do ont reflect those of employer, etc...)
>> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
>> http://www.hack.net/lists *
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
http://www.hack.net/lists *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:46:12 -0400
>From: EAcheson@frojac.com
>Subject: [none]
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: MAILER-DAEMON@lanecc.edu [SMTP:MAILER-DAEMON@lanecc.edu]
>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 8:31 AM
>> To: Acheson, Edwin R.
>> Subject: Undeliverable Message
>>
>> FWIT, I've been considering the Eureka Solitaire (if its the one with
>> aluminum rather than fiberglass poles) for a while. It seems to me to
>> be an excellent choice from a size (easily big enough for one) and
>> weight (about 2 lbs, 8 oz). Although its only 2'10" high (or is it
>> 2'8"
>> and weighs 2 lb 10 oz?) its a bit short, but matches my height. I
>> don't
>> really consider it a bivy, but a good compromise between weight and
>> functionality of a "typical" tent.
>>
>> My biggest concern is about Eureka's quality. I just bought the
>> Equinox
>> 4, a family sized tent (some insist on being able to stand in a tent),
>> and while it held up well for 10 days in the Boundary Waters, there
>> are
>> some things I didn't like. The zippers were always hard to use (I
>> recall the same problem on a friend's Timberline in 1980), hanging up
>> every time I opened the door. The poles supporting the rain fly
>> awning
>> fit into grommets, which were open to mosquitoes (which are bad in the
>> BWCA) when the rain fly wasn't used. The tent pegs were a joke,
>> leaving
>> me wondering why Eureka even bothered to supply them with the tent.
>> (I
>> replaced them with the Kelty pegs based on the recent evaluation of
>> tent
>> pegs by Backpacker, which worked well). The stuff sack for the tent
>> was
>> not very durable, and became cut in several places. Even the stuff
>> sack
>> for the tent poles, which was always rolled inside of the tent, inside
>> of the outer stuff sack, was cut by the poles, allowing the short
>> poles
>> to slip out. In contrast, the stuff sack from my Sierra Designs tent
>> has endured 4 months of the PCT without any holes.
>>
>> My understanding of Gore Tex on tents is that it doesn't work that
>> well.
>> I've been told that it is body heat that drives the water vapor
>> molecules through the pores, which is why it will work for rain suits
>> (if so, why is Gore Tex used for sleeping bags which should have the
>> same problem?). A tent shouldn' t be close enough to you for your
>> body
>> heat to be a factor.
>>
>> Ed Acheson
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: INTERNET:robertkn@mdhost.cse.tek.com
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 1997 12:12 PM
>> > To: INTERNET:pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
>> >
>> > Sender: owner-pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> > Received: from saffron.hack.net (saffron.hack.net [204.95.194.4])
>> > by dub-img-4.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.2) with ESMTP id
>> > NAA22791;
>> > Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:06:18 -0400 (EDT)
>> > Received: (from majordom@localhost) by saffron.hack.net
>> (8.8.5/8.7.3)
>> > id LAA08691
>> > for pct-l-outgoing; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:58:43 -0500 (CDT)
>> > X-Authentication-Warning: saffron.hack.net: majordom set sender to
>> > owner-pct-l@sa
>> > ffron.hack.net using -f
>> > Received: from fw1.tek.com (fw1.tek.com [192.65.17.16]) by
>> > saffron.hack.net (8.8.
>> > 5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA08687 for <pct-l@saffron.hack.net>; Wed,
>> 30
>> > Jul 1997 11
>> > :58:26 -0500 (CDT)
>> > Received: from fw1.tek.com (root@localhost) by fw1.tek.com
>> > (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESM
>> > TP id JAA09520 for <pct-l@saffron.hack.net>; Wed, 30 Jul 1997
>> 09:56:25
>> > -0700 (PDT
>> > )
>> > Received: from yangtze.cse.tek.com (yangtze.cse.tek.com
>> > [128.181.117.203]) by fw1
>> > .tek.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA09516 for
>> > <pct-l@saffron.hack.net>; Wed,
>> > 30 Jul 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> > Received: (from robertkn@localhost) by yangtze.cse.tek.com
>> > (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA07
>> > 590; Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:56:25 -0700 (PDT)
>> > From: Robert Knoth <robertkn@mdhost.cse.tek.com>
>> > X-Sender: robertkn@yangtze.cse.tek.com
>> > To: pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> > Subject: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <Pine.SUN.3.91.970730094834.4565R-100000@yangtze.cse.tek.com>
>> > MIME-Version: 1.0
>> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>> > Sender: owner-pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>> > Precedence: bulk
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I am going to be doing some solo backpacking soon, and have been
>> > curious
>> > about bivy sacks. I have never used one, and found that outdoor
>> > stores
>> > (REI, etc...) do not rent them. So, what are people's general
>> > opinions
>> > of them? Besides the usual of very little space, and not good in a
>> > blizzard, what are your experiences with them? I am planning on
>> also
>> > rigging up a tarp to use as a mock vestibule. I was looking at
>> models
>> >
>> > from Eureka (the Solitare), Slumberjack, and Outdoor Research's
>> > Advanced
>> > Bivy. Any horror stories? Is condensation as much of a problem as
>> I
>> > have heard? Would the gore-tex in the OR bivy help this, or is it
>>
>> > mostly hype? Up to now the info I have read/heard is from Outdoor
>> > research, and sales people. I know OR wouldn't badmouth their own
>> > stuff,
>> > and the sales people are not going to stop me from buying their big
>> > ticket gore-tex bivy either. So, any good third-party opinions? The
>> > weather
>> > I am expecting is 3 season stuff in Oregon, mostly in the Cascades,
>> > but
>> > who knows where else...
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Rob Knoth
>> >
>> > (Opionions here do ont reflect those of employer, etc...)
>> > * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
>> > http://www.hack.net/lists *
>> * From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
>> http://www.hack.net/lists *
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
http://www.hack.net/lists *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:09:25 -0700
>From: "Tom Horton @ Horton/Fredrick Associates" <thorton@HFAonline.com>
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bivy Sack opinions
>
>At 06:32 PM 7/30/97 -0700, Kurt Herzog wrote:
>>> Robert Knoth <robertkn@mdhost.cse.tek.com> wrote
>>> To: pct-l@saffron.hack.net
>>> Subject: [pct-l] Bivy Sack
>>> Date: July 30, 1997 10:15 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I am going to be doing some solo backpacking soon, and have been curious
>>> about bivy sacks.
>>
>>. . . stuff deleted . . .
>
>>If you want absolutly the least weight a 10x10 tarp or HD poly sheet
>>will do the trick at a fraction of the cost and about the same weight.
>>I would add a yard or two of bug net... especially if you go anywhere
>>near Waldo Lake <g>.
>
>I like a tube tent - a 10' long sheet plastic tube about 5' in diameter - as
>an emergency shelter. For summer in the Sierras, where it seldom rains
>seriously, multi-night trips sleeping under the stars with nothing but a
>tube tent for emergencies is a very practical way to go. Of course, if
>you're way above treeline, with no objects to tie a rope between, it can be
>difficult to string the tube tent.
>>
>>I have for years used a very light Eureka tent (not made any longer)
>>that comes in at 5 pounds.. tent, fly, stakes and groundcloth. The
>>extra 3 pounds above the weight of a tarp are well worth the extra
>>comfort and room... _especially_ if the weather is bad. There are
>>quite a few tents on the market in this weight range... take a look
>>at some and talk to owners about their favorites.
>
>My Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight is now 11 years old, has seen extensive
>use and is still a dynamite tent. It weighs about four pounds fully
>equipped, and has been widely imitated in the industry. With seams sealed,
>it has come through no end of rain, hail, and six inches of wet snow
>completely dry. Last year the coated "bathtub" portion started getting a
>little damp, so I bought a bottle of some re-coating urethan liquid at
>Krikham's in SLC (can't remember the brand name), retreated it and it seems
>to be good as new. The size is luxurious for one , cozy for two. Only
>disadvantage, IMHO, is that it's not self-supporting, and needs to be staked.
>
>Tom Horton
>
>
>=====================================================
> HORTON / FREDRICK ASSOCIATES
> Public Relations, Marketing Communications & Great Advice
> Phone: 916-621-0842 Fax: 916-621-0843 Cellular: 916-626-2278
>E-mail: thorton@HFAonline.com WWW: http://www.HFAonline.com
> 319 Main Street, Suite 1, Placerville, CA 95667
>=====================================================
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
http://www.hack.net/lists *
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:00:19 -0800
>From: ALAN JULLIARD <OPATJ@library.ci.anchorage.ak.us>
>Subject: [pct-l] Re: Bivy Sack
>
>Robert Knoth was asking about bivy sacks-
>
> I disagree with Kurt Herzog's opinion on bivy sacks or at least part of
what
>he said; I also disagree that bivy sacks are not good in a blizzard as I have
>used one in such conditions and found them satisfactory (read this as better
>than freezing to death but just barely). First, though Robert, I question
why
>you want to use a bivy sack AND a tarp as a vestible; you are better off
>choosing one or the other. When I hiked the PCT, I had less than a dozen
>nights of precipitation for 5 months of travel. I carried a 5 lb. tent
all the
>way, though I had carried just a tarp on the AT where it rained more, and
if I
>did the PCT again today, I would carry neither tent nor tarp. However, my
>level of experience is probably much different than yours (and most people on
>this list) so I would not recommend that you follow my approach, which
would be
>to use a bivy sack. Part of my experience includes several bivies in bad
>weather with nothing but the clothes on my back in an extreme mountaineering
>situation here in Alaska; all I can say is that you either love it or hate
it,
>and I tend to love it (by "clothes on my back", I mean it literally - no pad,
>no bivy sack, just sitting on top of my empty pack, curled up in a ball,
teeth
>chattering all night). I would consider a 3-month trip on the PCT with a
bivy
>sack and sleeping bag to be downright luxurious. In fact, I am preparing
plans
>for such a trip in the next 10 years, and my weight came in less than the
8 1/2
>lbs. that Ray and Jenny Jardine used on the PCT; I hope that it is understood
>though that such extreme behavior equipment-wise comes from many, many
years of
>experience and that most hikers should adapt a more moderate stance until
they
>feel comfortable enough to start shedding the weight.
> I have given very careful consideration to the OR bivy sack: it seems
like a
>Cadillac of bivy sacks, fairly expensive, reasonably light (at 1 lb.
even), but
>I feel that the hiker who is also a good seamstress could do better both
>money-wise and weight. Personally, I gave no consideration to the Eureka
>because it is too heavy (for me) but seems like it might be a better
choice for
>most persons new to a bivy sack as it has the hoop suspension to create the
>room that so many people desire (not me) and is more moderately priced (I
>think; I cannot remember). Since you state that you would be doing most of
>your travel in the Oregon Cascades, where it rains a lot more than the
>California sections, it might be better for you to go with a tarp or one
of the
>more extreme mini-tents available. I can not emphathize enough how much a
>mental game this is, choosing to use a tent, tarp, bivy sack or nothing at
all,
>and that for most people, it is best to be conservative, go slow and don't
>become a statistic. If you decide to go with a bivy sack, then my advice
is to
>do several overnight trips in perfect weather before going on a trip where
you
>will be depending on it. Though I assume that you will be using a
sleeping bag
>inside of your bivy sack, once you feel comfortable using it, you might
plan a
>trip where you will use only the warm clothes that you normally carry plus
your
>bivy sack, again in perfect weather, the point of this exercise being
twofold:
>you will have the experience JUST IN CASE you ever need it in a real
emergency
>and you will have also stretched the limits of what you previously considered
>possible, which is always a good thing to do, and necessary.
>
>Alan
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:03:04 -0700
>From: Tom Grundy <kwbes@telcomplus.com>
>Subject: [pct-l] Off for the JMT, and everything else
>
>Well, Today was my last day at work. (no more paychecks and e-mail, lots
>of free time). Heading south to hike the JMT starting aug 12. Next year
>will be the PCT. Hopefully I can get onto the mailing list again before
>then.
>Keep on hiking
>
>- --=Tom
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>------------------------------
>
>End of pct-l-digest V1 #210
>***************************
>
>* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List | For info
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>
>
Bill Person
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==============================================================================