[pct-l] Why I boycotted the ADZPCTKO; Thoughts... ; Let's pull it togethe...

[enyapjr at adelphia.net (enyapjr@adelphia.net)]

Greg quoted enyapjr at adelphia.net: > "Sad to say, but I am greatly disappointed
>regarding this thread and its many offshoots!" 

BTW, the sentence immediately after that one, so advantageously 'chopped' off, was: "Some ideas regarding the growth problem have been brought forward that
are worthy of DISCUSSION."

Greg may have quoted me at the top of his post above his 'rebuttal', (IMHO) thusly
implying what HE says below it is in 'response' to things that I said or did, which
is simply not true!

1) Greg: "Boy, I guess that I should have qualified and caveated my "Yawn" post."

Yes, you surely should have!

2) Greg: " ...reason that I posted that was to send the non-offensive,
simply message... "

'Non-offensive'???  Sorry, but you must be socially oblivious IF you HONESTLY
felt that your 'short message' could or would NOT be misconstrued!...

'Simple'?  Can't argue on that point!  "Yawn."  Short, simple...  yet NOT to the
point (issue) at hand...

3) Greg : "Arguing louder and repetively and grandstanding and claiming that your arguments are not being heard... "

Please reread my posts...  'Repetitive'?  I made only made ONE post to the
initial "boycott" post!  My SECOND post on the issue was the "Sad to say, but
I am greatly disappointed... " post that you quoted - and that was made after
reading ALL the posts up to that point from everyone else and truly being "greatly
disappointed" not necessarily in the overall responses, but rather HOW some were
worded or approached by their authors.  Subsequent to the second post, I did
reply off-list to many of the other postings...  and received many off-list replies in return...  I then replied to one other "Thoughts... " post, an "ADZ" ("boycott"
spinoff) post, and also "Water Caches???" (another 'spinoff') posts...

" ...arguments are not being heard... "  I said, " ...apparently it is not worthy enough to some" (to discuss).

"Grandstanding"???  Let's look at some of your posts regarding this thread...

Greg: "This is not a democracy."

No, ADZ is NOT a democracy, but we live in a democracy with certain
"unalienable Rights" - some of which we can use (respectfully) in posting on
the pct-l...

Greg: "As Tom Reynolds used to say, "You all discuss and suggest and argue
all that you wish and then I will do whatever I damn well please".  Except in
this case the "I" has been changed to "the organizers"."

In saying that, I take it 'we' on pct-l can still "discuss and suggest and argue"
the topic?

Greg: "Can we get on to other germaine discussions that might be really
interesting to aspiring thru and section hikers who are in the wings of this
discussion list... ?"

Did I speak too soon?  Are you trying to 'Poobah' the pct-l, also?  Regarding
the pct-l, "This list is for discussion of all things related to the PCT, planning
for thru-hikes or section-hikes, trail-threats, trail maintenance, horse riding,
llama packing, anything having to do with the PCT."  Repeat the last segment
for emphasis, " ...anything having to do with the PCT."  - and the 'wave' of
hikers is perceived by more than one person to be a growing threat to the
trail and the 'experience' of hiking it ("trail-threats").  Definition of germane
is "being at once relevant and appropriate: fitting"...

I AM an aspiring 'thru-hiker' that has already walked approximately 2/3 of
the 'PCT' in total, but mostly many years ago (some pre-1968) - so there has
been much rerouting since...  And I still have the dream of 'thru-hiking' the PCT
in a single season...  Does this issue/thread 'interest' me?  No, but it does greatly
CONCERN me as to the future well being of both the PCT and how it may one day affect ALL future thru-hikers.  If the PCT becomes only half as 'popular' as the AT,
and if we, the trail community, don't lead the way in seeking ideas for changes
that, although may not be needed immediately, will be needed eventually -
then 'someone' else will do it for us...  If we sit back and do nothing before that
time comes, the government will surely institute controls - and, THEN, YOU can
scream "Unfair!" all you want!  It will be too late... the decision will have been
made for 'us'...

BTW, other 'threads' did manage to get 'in' during the few days this issue was running so 'hot and heavy'...   Greg: "...must be getting really tired of this
thread?"  No one says they ("aspiring thru and section hikers") HAVE to read
any pct-l thread that they are not interested in...

4) Greg: "I'm truely sorry if I have offended anyone by my "Yawn" post."

I might certainly accept that well meaning apology on behalf of ALL the posters
concerning this thread, whether they agreed or disagreed...  But I can only speak
for myself - I accept your "Yawn" apology...  However, I think you now also owe
me a personal apology for putting me and a partial tag of my post at the TOP of
your 'rebuttal', which thusly implied what YOU say below it is in 'response' to what
I said or did, which is not true (I'm assuming your 'response' possibly may have been to ALL the posts in total that you disagreed with regarding this thread... ?).

As for your "...HAS been discussed by the PCT-L...", I have been a list member
for three years - and I don't recall this much 'conversation' before regarding
a 'wave' effect from ADZ (at least not as heated as this April!) on the pct-l...

Per your "(discussed by) ...entire western U.S. backpacking community."
Well, maybe I lose again - I moved from Long Beach, CA, to central PA in 1991
(if I was still in Long Beach, I might have been an ADZ volunteer long ago!).
I certainly hope that being in PA now doesn't preclude me from joining in on
a pct-l 'discussion'...  I was born and raised in 'far' northern CA (think "State of
Jefferson" as a clue) and that is where my heart will always be - at the very
least, out West somewhere and on the PCT!!

Lastly, I apologize to the list for the excessive length of this post!  My only
viable excuse is that I'm stuck on graveyard shift this week - obviously  with a little too much time on my hands to intermittently peck away at this response!

No "Happy trails!!!" today...

Respectfully,
Jim Payne
State College, PA