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[pct-l] RE: pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 26
- Subject: [pct-l] RE: pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 26
- From: jdroberts at vd-p.com (Dan Roberts)
- Date: Tue Apr 19 02:38:28 2005
Jim Scotts:
My name is Dan and I section and day hike the PCT regularly with my dog. I have a yellow lab and she is in incredible trail shape. BUT I have had her trained for rattle snake avoidance (which has worked several times) AND you have to remember that big dogs like yours or mine are sooo exicted to be in the outdoors that in reality they hike 2 to 3 times the length that you will on any given day going up and back and up and back etc..... My dog has also been trained to stay on the trail...... This has taken a lot of time but she is now at a point where if she hears or see's something, 95% of the time she will stay on the trail anyway.
To me here are the biggest problems with the whole dog issue:
1. Heat Exhaustion: Remember your dog (especially a Husky) is wearing a fur coat and is 3 to 4 time closer to the ground surface all the time versus what you are. The ground (especially going through So Cal., is a lot hotter than the air (remember when you were young and you were dumb enough to walk on black asphalt in the middle of the day on a hot day? That is what it is like for your dog. My dog (even though she is a very good trail hiking dog and is a short haired yellow lab) has both gotten paw blisters and heat stroke when I wasn't paying close enough attention to her needs. At that point she is just looking for shade and a place to rest, and mind you this was only a day hike. My point, realize that if you are feelng it at 95 degrees your dog is probably feeling it a 7-10 degrees hotter and their paws even hotter.
2. Water: You (or the combination of you and your dog) need to carry enough water for the two of you. This gets very heavy in the desert. On tough vertical terrrain or in hot desert conditions, I usually consume close to 3/4 to 1 liter every five miles. My dog consumes about 1/2 to 3/4 that amount. Are you prepared to carry this load? You say you are planning to hike ultra-light. Carrying enough water for you AND your dog seems to me to contradict this statement. And you have got to think about the dog first on this issue. Remember the dog is dependant on you not you on the dog.
3. Rattlesnakes: My dog has been rattlesnake avoidance trained. There is a guy in Norco, Ca. that does this using real rattlesnakes and electric shock treatment. When I took my dog to this training, it wasn't fun to watch and I felt guilty as hell watching the electric shock treatment. However, she has avoided AND warned me in advance of snakes everytime I have ran into one since. They warn by getting very nervous and not wanting to continue on or they will loop way around the snake. If your dog hasn't been trained for this I think you are risking a lot here. At least on a day hike, there is a car that can get you to a Vet right a way at the end of the trail. This isn't the case on a thru hike.
4. Animal Food: Your dog is GOOD FOOD to other wildlife, such as cougar and bear and the fact that you are hiking with the dog will make you a bigger target (not you necessarily but your dog) I wouldn'tworry too much about the bear stuff if your dog is trained to stay near you, but even that won't stop a hungry cougar. Are you aware that the area of the PCT from around the Rancho Cuymacha thru the San Jacnito's thru to San Gorgonio is prime cougar territory? In fact there have been more cougar attacks with people in Rancho Cuymacha than anywhere else in California over the last century. There is a book called Cougar Attacks by Kathy Etling that has all the factual basis for recorded cougar attacks in California since the early 1900's. It is well worth reading. And I am not saying your likely to get attacked, just that by having your dog with you your chances are substantially greater even though the odds are against it. My dog when going through this area got spooked more than at any other time I have ever hiked with her (and she doesn't tend to spook) I can't smell what she can smell all I can tell you is that she was very nervous at times when usually she is happy go lucky. With all of the recent fires in So Cal. The past couple of years there have been more sitings of cougars (Probably hungrier than normal)
5. Injury: What are you going to do if your dog gets injured? Your not going to be able to carry a big dog like that and if (he/she gets injured) they will probably bite back when you are trying to help them so bring a muzzle. And IF that happens you probably won't get a lot of sympathy from thru hikers. They have there own agenda to take care of and they probably think your nuts in the first place for trying to thru hike with the dog.
That said, I do know of one person last year that was attempting the trip with the dog and I do know they made it at least to the Seirra's but I don't know if they finished. My advise..... Stick with the day hikes with the dog and leave her/him behind on the thru hike.
Hope this helps or at least gives you somethings to consider.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 7:45 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 26
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Today's Topics:
1. Congratulations of a DVD well done (Paul Longton)
2. Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Scott Schaffer)
3. Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (yogi)
4. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (frank martin)
5. RE: [BULK] - [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Mike Saenz)
6. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Bill & Cathy)
7. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Melody dos Santos)
8. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Michael Lissner)
9. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Carolyn Eddy)
10. RE: Scott Williamson (John Coyle)
11. Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Paul Magnanti)
12. Ride to KOP - all set! (Paul Magnanti)
13. RE: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Tom Kowalik)
14. RE: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (Eric Lee (GAMES))
15. Trail conditions Walker Pass/Hwy 178 (Mara Jeffress)
16. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (djgpct@aol.com)
17. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (dsaufley@sprynet.com)
18. Re: Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question (dsaufley@sprynet.com)
19. Hyponatremia . . . (JOHN F PATTERSON)
20. Ultra-light Dogs (stillroaming)
21. Re: RE: Scott Williamson (Wayne Kraft)
22. Re: Article on Scott Williamson (John Mertes)
23. Thru-hiking PCT w/dog? (Scott Schaffer)
24. ice axe to ? (Trekker4@aol.com)
25. RE: April 1 Sierra Snow Prediction (Reynolds, WT)
26. Re: ice axe to ? (Gary Wright)
27. Lost and Found in Warner Springs (Monty Tam)
28. Re: ice axe to ? (Shutterbug steiner)
29. Foot problems (Shutterbug steiner)
30. ice axe to ? (The Weathercarrot)
31. Re: Foot problems (Wayne Kraft)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Longton <plongton@pacbell.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Congratulations of a DVD well done
To: weathercarrot <weathercarrot@hotmail.com>,
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20050415180625.3907.qmail@web81402.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Weathercarrot - Thanks for putting together a very well done DVD. Izzy and I did one for our trip and I can appreciate the incredible amount of time and energy that went into yours. Thank you for doing it and thank you for sending it out. The photos were well chosen, the transitions were lovely and the sense of the journey was palpable. It was wonderful to see the hikers that became my community and the video clips that were inserted made me yearn for the trail. You captured the people element so very well. I know the process is an expensive one and I will be delighted to hand you a few bucks when I see you at kickoff. Buzz
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Schaffer <scotts451@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20050415184009.18090.qmail@web50204.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long distance hiking for dogs.
My question is what?s a good ?rule of thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
---------------------------------
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: yogi <yogihikes@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20050415185206.38451.qmail@web81510.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
uh-oh.
Scott Schaffer <scotts451@yahoo.com> wrote:
My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long distance hiking for dogs.
My question is what?s a good ?rule of thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: frank martin <sriprank@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20050415185849.97536.qmail@web14027.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
The only way to do this is put him on the back of your mountain bike
next to your gun. :)
frank
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:00:45 -0700
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
Subject: RE: [BULK] - [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: "Scott Schaffer" <scotts451@yahoo.com>,
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<157A61E98909CA47A3BBC4D6E5A773770355E174@server3.mvenet.ad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Restraint, people....restraint.....
Michael Saenz, Associate Partner
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e | P l a n n i n g | I n t e r i o r s
MVE MVE Institutional MVP International
w w w . m v e - a r c h i t e c t s . c o m
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Scott
Schaffer
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:40 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [BULK] - [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog
Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good
info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long distance
hiking for dogs.
My question is what's a good "rule of thumb" for the weight dogs can
carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of
her size (< 25% of her body weight), but wonder what would be expected
once she gets back in shape.
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:13:42 -0700
From: "Bill & Cathy" <tahoe.cat@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: "Scott Schaffer" <scotts451@yahoo.com>
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <001501c541ef$3d599f40$b5803c04@dslverizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You Haven't been watching this list very long have you??? HYOH with DOG?
Good Luck--but I'll keep my "GUN" & my "SNAKE" bite kit handy. Remember
"Be Prepared" Ground Pounder Bill "Semper Fi"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Schaffer" <scotts451@yahoo.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:40 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
>
> My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog
Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good info
for me, but have not been able to find much info for long distance hiking
for dogs.
> My question is what's a good "rule of thumb" for the weight dogs can
carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of her
size (< 25% of her body weight), but wonder what would be expected once she
gets back in shape.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:14:16 -0700
From: Melody dos Santos <melmo@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <42601288.8090000@mindspring.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
From the Pacific Crest Trail Association website
(http://www.pcta.org/about_trail/faqs.asp):
*Q. Are dogs permitted on the PCT? *
*A. *Dogs are permitted on the PCT except in areas administered by the
National Park Service and in the five California State Parks
<http://www.pcta.org/general/links/parks.asp>through which the trail
passes.
Scott Schaffer wrote:
>My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long distance hiking for dogs.
>My question is what?s a good ?rule of thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>_______________________________________________
>pct-l mailing list
>pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>unsubscribe or change options:
>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:21:28 -0700
From: Michael Lissner <mlissner@aidshike.org>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: PCT List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <42601438.3040904@aidshike.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Scott, I should let you know that the people on this list are decidedly
against thru-hiking with dogs. The argument is that the dogs can't tell
their owners that they are hurting, or that the dogs simply aren't built
for it, etc. Odds are good that you'll get a number of anti-dog comments.
That said, there is at least one person I can think of that is going to
be hiking with their dog this year. If you find them, you'll be in good
shape. On the other hand, if you do not, you're not going to get too
many useful answers to that question on this list.
My suggestion to you would be to carry as much of the weight as
possible, and then slowly give it to the dog until you're both equally
tired at the end of the day. I have no experience with dogs though, so
take it with a rather large grain of salt. My logic is that the dog is
going to be the one hurting more at the end of a 20+ mile section.
Good luck.
-mike
www.aidshike.org
-510.547.4299-
Melody dos Santos wrote:
> From the Pacific Crest Trail Association website
> (http://www.pcta.org/about_trail/faqs.asp):
>
> *Q. Are dogs permitted on the PCT? *
>
> *A. *Dogs are permitted on the PCT except in areas administered by the
> National Park Service and in the five California State Parks
> <http://www.pcta.org/general/links/parks.asp>through which the trail
> passes.
>
>
>
>
> Scott Schaffer wrote:
>
>> My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my
>> dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of
>> good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long
>> distance hiking for dogs. My question is what?s a good ?rule of
>> thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a
>> conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body
>> weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>> _______________________________________________
>> pct-l mailing list
>> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>> unsubscribe or change options:
>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
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>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:47:08 -0700
From: "Carolyn Eddy" <ECPG@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <009901c541f3$ea087b90$18abf204@fred>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
If you want to discuss trail use with your dog Yahoo has a Traildog list
that can help with questions like this. Just sign on to "Traildog".
The consensus over there will be pretty much the same as here. Dogs have a
hard time with the mileage's required to do a thru-hike. Section hikes, yes,
thru-hikes, pretty hard to do. But, if you're determined to try, they can
help with conditioning, weights and mileages so that your dog doesn't suffer
unknowingly.
Carolyn Eddy
"Sweet Goat Mama"
www.goattracksmagazine.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:00:02 -0700
From: John Coyle <jcoyle@sanjuan.edu>
Subject: [pct-l] RE: Scott Williamson
To: "'pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<C7477266D3671647BBF4614A053F3D940239786F@dale.sanjuan.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I have a subscription to Backpacker and regarding Scott Williamson, there is
a long feature article in the May issue about his PCT yo-yo. To be honest,
I am at work and can't remember what is on the cover. I believe it would be
worth it for anyone interested in thru-hiking or ultra light/lightweight
hiking to buy this particular issue due to that article. I don't
particularly like the writer's style, who must set a record of his own for
using the pronoun "you" the most times in a single article, but that is just
my opinion and doesn't reflect on Scott Williamson and his accomplishment,
which is truly admirable. (Scott Williamson did not write the article.)
John Coyle
Sacramento
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: PCT MailingList <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <20050415200434.14683.qmail@web52702.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Bear cans, dogs, cell phones....well.you get the idea.
:)
In any case, you may want to pick the brain of a
person who has hiked part of the PCT:
http://www.pctforpets.org/Homepage.html
Doc and Llamma (with their dog Coy) hiked all of the
PCT in 2002. Doc is currently in Korea with the US
Army. Llama can be reached at: llamaring@hotmail.com
Keep in mind ~1/3rd of all hikers finish the trail.
Not sure what the percentage of hikers with dogs who
are able to finish the trail. Suspect it is less. Not
trying to disuade you, but it seems more logistic
challenges for a hiker with dog. Just something to
keep in mind.
************************************************************
The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
--Thoreau
http://www.magnanti.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Ride to KOP - all set!
To: PCT MailingList <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <20050415200653.70411.qmail@web52706.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
As usual, the generosity of the PCT community was
awesome. Not only did I get a ride lined up (Thanks
Robert!), but had over half a dozen ride offers.
Many thanks to all....
See everyone in a week! :)
************************************************************
The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
--Thoreau
http://www.magnanti.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:47:46 +0000
From: "Tom Kowalik" <moosemunch_7@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Cc: pmags@yahoo.com
Message-ID: <BAY15-F32DD216B84F2F708FF4A28A1360@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
They hiked the AT in 03 as well and I believe Coy made it all the way.
>From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: pmags@yahoo.com
>To: PCT MailingList <pct-l@backcountry.net>
>Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005
>13:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Bear cans, dogs, cell phones....well.you get the idea.
>:)
>
>In any case, you may want to pick the brain of a
>person who has hiked part of the PCT:
>http://www.pctforpets.org/Homepage.html
>
>Doc and Llamma (with their dog Coy) hiked all of the
>PCT in 2002. Doc is currently in Korea with the US
>Army. Llama can be reached at: llamaring@hotmail.com
>
>Keep in mind ~1/3rd of all hikers finish the trail.
>
>Not sure what the percentage of hikers with dogs who
>are able to finish the trail. Suspect it is less. Not
>trying to disuade you, but it seems more logistic
>challenges for a hiker with dog. Just something to
>keep in mind.
>
>
>
>
>************************************************************
>The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a
>portion of the rainbow I have clutched
>--Thoreau
>http://www.magnanti.com
>_______________________________________________
>pct-l mailing list
>pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>unsubscribe or change options:
>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:46:52 -0700
From: "Eric Lee (GAMES)" <elee@microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: <pmags@yahoo.com>, "PCT MailingList" <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<BAE415CEAA831548800F68C44E905AF501E4603F@RED-MSG-60.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mags wrote:
>
In any case, you may want to pick the brain of a
person who has hiked part of the PCT:
http://www.pctforpets.org/Homepage.html
>
The web site that Mags links to is a very good one to get an idea of how
challenging southern California is for dogs. Regardless of your
position on thru-hiking with dogs, it's a fact that the desert
conditions are very, very rough on them (and on humans, too!).
The direct link to the start of the journal is:
http://www.pctforpets.org/SU_1.html
Eric
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:19:38 -0700
From: Mara Jeffress <mara@jeffress.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Trail conditions Walker Pass/Hwy 178
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <f1fd01f00d78414fc58e8e7aa0a9b76d@jeffress.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
I know this isn't as good a trail report but some info none-the-less:
I just go back from S. Cal. car camping trip (unfortunately not much
hiking when I'm with my other half) where we drove very close to PCT
sections between Hwy 14 and 178. From the valley we saw some sparse
snow up in the Tehachapi Mts. on the south faces but not much, will be
more on the North faces. But since the trail stays lower on the East
side of the mountains there looks to be no snow where the trail runs
South of Hwy 58. My man graciously stopped at Walker Pass (where Hwy
178 and PCT cross) so I could get out and amble up trail a little bit
to see the view over the top of the pass and get excited about this
year's trough hike. It was totally snow free up there, at least near
Walker pass (1647m) and for quite a ways north (I could see up to
Morris Peak 2199m and and part of Owen's Peak 2577m) until you get to
the higher mountains further North.
Hopefully, some local person can provide a better status report. But I
was surprised how snow-free it was and thought I would pass on a
possibly hopeful note. As always, check conditions for yourself.
Have a great hike!
Mara
Mara Jeffress
mara@jeffress.net
http://jeffress.net/mara/1000miles.html
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:40:47 -0400
From: djgpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: scotts451@yahoo.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <8C710234D645927-CA8-1297D@mblk-r16.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
25% is too much, even when the dog is in shape.
My husband took our dog for 270 miles on the PCT last year, also going lite himself. The dog carried 20% of his own weight. It was too much. We consulted with many people, vets, trainers, etc. We now realize the more conservative opinions we'd received were closer to the truth. Of course it can depend on breed, but if Nanook is a husky, he/she will also be challenged by heat even with no pack at all.
I am planning a cross country horsepacking trip (just a week) this year. I plan to bring my dog and I will not put more than 10% on him, if anything at all. Let the horse(s) carry the rest...
Also, if you plan to use dog booties, buy a set now and let your dog wear them A LOT. We found that even though they protected his foot pads very well, he got blisters on the top of his feet from the booties. We never thought of that. Consider booty design and food and pack design carefully.
Another thought. We made an ID card for our dog. Two copies actually. Had 'em laminated. One was in our dog's pack and one in my husband's pack. Just in case they got separated, we wanted him to be easily identifiable. We also had him tatooed. He has a micro chip, but we feared that if he got lost in some place really remote, anybody who found him might not have easy availability to a vet scanner. We used the microchip ID number in the tatoo, too. The tatooing process was easy, once we found a good professional. Took only 15 minutes and our dog was snoring by the last 5 minutes. In my process of researching this last year, I found that it is illegal for any animal testing facility to accept a "found" animal if it is cleary marked with an ID or chipped. It must be turned over to an agency that can follow up on it's ID chip or tatoo.
Especially consider if your dog is in physical shape and mental attitude ready for this. We conditioned our dog for many months ahead of time, but it wasn't enough for what he was asked to carry day after day, week after week.
Good luck, but consider all details that pertain to your dog very very carefully.
Betsy (and Darrell and Sitka, the wonder lab)
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Schaffer <scotts451@yahoo.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Sent: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog Nanook.
I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good info for me, but
have not been able to find much info for long distance hiking for dogs.
My question is what???s a good ???rule of thumb??? for the weight dogs can carry? I
feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of
her body weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:33:33 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: dsaufley@sprynet.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: Michael Lissner <mlissner@aidshike.org>, PCT List
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<21789156.1113608013936.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Scott,
I would not say that the comments below are wholly true. Some people on the post have indicated that they are against it, because they have seen dogs suffer out there. But many other hikers/posters are not only supportive, they hike with dogs themselves. We have hosted many dogs and their owners over the years. And, the dogs' conditions ranged from excellent to horrible. What made me ill, and what gives hiking with dogs a bad name, was watching a guy hike out with his dog who had pads like raw hamburger. The dog followed him down the trail, and I wanted to kill the owner for his selfishness and cruelty -- I had offered to keep the dog for him until it had healed, and would deliver the dog up the trail. But this guy supposedly loved his dog so much he wouldn't leave him behind.
You don't say what breed Nanook is. Coursing breeds can go long, long distances day after day (upwards of 40-50 miles), and this is not only perfectly normal for them, they thrive on it. What's really a travesty is keeping dogs like this penned up and not letting them do big miles!!! Breeds created for other purposes, such as companions, may not handle the mileage as well.
Pad conditioning is absolutely critical, because the southern PCT is like sandpaper to their pads (and to people's feet, too). Booties can cause friction sores all over their feet -- what works for test hikes at lower mileage has much different effects with bigger miles. The only way to condition for 25 mile days is to do 25 mile days. Can you test him over abrasive surfaces? Do the field work: can your dog do mileage day after day and remain sound? Don't wait until you get to Campo to find out.
-=Donna Saufley=-
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Lissner <mlissner@aidshike.org>
Sent: Apr 15, 2005 12:21 PM
To: PCT List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
Scott, I should let you know that the people on this list are decidedly
against thru-hiking with dogs. The argument is that the dogs can't tell
their owners that they are hurting, or that the dogs simply aren't built
for it, etc. Odds are good that you'll get a number of anti-dog comments.
That said, there is at least one person I can think of that is going to
be hiking with their dog this year. If you find them, you'll be in good
shape. On the other hand, if you do not, you're not going to get too
many useful answers to that question on this list.
My suggestion to you would be to carry as much of the weight as
possible, and then slowly give it to the dog until you're both equally
tired at the end of the day. I have no experience with dogs though, so
take it with a rather large grain of salt. My logic is that the dog is
going to be the one hurting more at the end of a 20+ mile section.
Good luck.
-mike
www.aidshike.org
-510.547.4299-
Melody dos Santos wrote:
> From the Pacific Crest Trail Association website
> (http://www.pcta.org/about_trail/faqs.asp):
>
> *Q. Are dogs permitted on the PCT? *
>
> *A. *Dogs are permitted on the PCT except in areas administered by the
> National Park Service and in the five California State Parks
> <http://www.pcta.org/general/links/parks.asp>through which the trail
> passes.
>
>
>
>
> Scott Schaffer wrote:
>
>> My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my
>> dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of
>> good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long
>> distance hiking for dogs. My question is what?s a good ?rule of
>> thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a
>> conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body
>> weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>> _______________________________________________
>> pct-l mailing list
>> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>> unsubscribe or change options:
>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
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------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 16:39:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
From: dsaufley@sprynet.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
To: dsaufley@sprynet.com, Michael Lissner <mlissner@aidshike.org>, PCT
List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<8791609.1113608361680.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Sorry -- I just noted that Nanook is a Husky. They can do miles, but the dog I mentioned below with the raw hamburger feet was a Malmute, so there are no guarantees.
-=Donna Saufley=-
-----Original Message-----
From: dsaufley@sprynet.com
Sent: Apr 15, 2005 4:33 PM
To: Michael Lissner <mlissner@aidshike.org>,
PCT List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
Scott,
I would not say that the comments below are wholly true. Some people on the post have indicated that they are against it, because they have seen dogs suffer out there. But many other hikers/posters are not only supportive, they hike with dogs themselves. We have hosted many dogs and their owners over the years. And, the dogs' conditions ranged from excellent to horrible. What made me ill, and what gives hiking with dogs a bad name, was watching a guy hike out with his dog who had pads like raw hamburger. The dog followed him down the trail, and I wanted to kill the owner for his selfishness and cruelty -- I had offered to keep the dog for him until it had healed, and would deliver the dog up the trail. But this guy supposedly loved his dog so much he wouldn't leave him behind.
You don't say what breed Nanook is. Coursing breeds can go long, long distances day after day (upwards of 40-50 miles), and this is not only perfectly normal for them, they thrive on it. What's really a travesty is keeping dogs like this penned up and not letting them do big miles!!! Breeds created for other purposes, such as companions, may not handle the mileage as well.
Pad conditioning is absolutely critical, because the southern PCT is like sandpaper to their pads (and to people's feet, too). Booties can cause friction sores all over their feet -- what works for test hikes at lower mileage has much different effects with bigger miles. The only way to condition for 25 mile days is to do 25 mile days. Can you test him over abrasive surfaces? Do the field work: can your dog do mileage day after day and remain sound? Don't wait until you get to Campo to find out.
-=Donna Saufley=-
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Lissner <mlissner@aidshike.org>
Sent: Apr 15, 2005 12:21 PM
To: PCT List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/ dog question
Scott, I should let you know that the people on this list are decidedly
against thru-hiking with dogs. The argument is that the dogs can't tell
their owners that they are hurting, or that the dogs simply aren't built
for it, etc. Odds are good that you'll get a number of anti-dog comments.
That said, there is at least one person I can think of that is going to
be hiking with their dog this year. If you find them, you'll be in good
shape. On the other hand, if you do not, you're not going to get too
many useful answers to that question on this list.
My suggestion to you would be to carry as much of the weight as
possible, and then slowly give it to the dog until you're both equally
tired at the end of the day. I have no experience with dogs though, so
take it with a rather large grain of salt. My logic is that the dog is
going to be the one hurting more at the end of a 20+ mile section.
Good luck.
-mike
www.aidshike.org
-510.547.4299-
Melody dos Santos wrote:
> From the Pacific Crest Trail Association website
> (http://www.pcta.org/about_trail/faqs.asp):
>
> *Q. Are dogs permitted on the PCT? *
>
> *A. *Dogs are permitted on the PCT except in areas administered by the
> National Park Service and in the five California State Parks
> <http://www.pcta.org/general/links/parks.asp>through which the trail
> passes.
>
>
>
>
> Scott Schaffer wrote:
>
>> My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my
>> dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of
>> good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long
>> distance hiking for dogs. My question is what?s a good ?rule of
>> thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a
>> conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body
>> weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
>> _______________________________________________
>> pct-l mailing list
>> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>> unsubscribe or change options:
>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
_______________________________________________
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pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
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------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOHN F PATTERSON <yuppatt@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Hyponatremia . . .
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20050416005624.51962.qmail@web81601.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Butter or margarine ?
Here we go again . Heed , NOT . Do that which you always have done as to hydrating . . . I think .
Rafter Jack
" First you say you will and then you won ' t . . . then you say you do , and then you don ' t . . . your undecided now . . . "
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:56:45 -0700
From: "stillroaming" <PCT@DelNorteResort.Com>
Subject: [pct-l] Ultra-light Dogs
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <002701c54227$8bdb73e0$320c10ac@zoot>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
A Chihuahua, right?
Think about it, if you're an aspiring dog owner/long distance hiker and the
thought of leaving your companion at home is too much, get a Chihuahua.
When the dog tires after wallking it's 300 feet for the day, place it in your
pack and gently cinch the draw string with just it's head sticking out.
Multi-purpose? You bet!
Think of the entertainment value watching it shiver at noon in the San Felipe Hills.
At night you could put it inside the foot area of your bag as a foot warmer or
a cozy foot rest when the ground is especially chilly.
Sound cruel? Then put it in the head cover area of your bag as a pillow.
The Chihuahua, a light-weight, multi-purpose pet for long distance hikers.
Order now!
Scott
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Home : http://DelNorteResort.Com
PCTSnow : http://DelNorteResort.com/cgi-bin/postHoler
CDTSnow : http://DelNorteResort.com/cgi-bin/cdtPostHoler
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:54:21 -0700
From: "Wayne Kraft" <waynekraft@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] RE: Scott Williamson
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <001601c54227$35fd2ef0$6a01a8c0@VALUEDEB5B1687>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
This was a great article because Scott's story is a great story. I agree
about the author's writing style. Unnecessarily arts-fartsy. After years
of making opening statements to juries as a prosecutor I discovered that
some stories are best told straight out. Sure, sometimes you need to inject
your sparkling wit and brilliant personality to hold your audience's
interest (explaining the accounting maneuvers of an embezzler), but often
the facts, related simply and chronologically without injecting yourself
into them are jaw dropping enough (brutal murder cunningly executed).
Scott's story is a jaw dropper. To tell such a story well, the storyteller
must disappear into the story.
It makes me wonder. How many of us hike with these ghosts? I know I do.
When I am alone on the trail my mind returns again and again to the pleasant
memory of hours spent with each of three friends who died without saying
good bye (one fell into a crevasse on North Sister, one died of a sudden
aneurysm while I was away in the Canadian Rockies and one more or less
inexplicably drowned while kayaking alone).
There is something compelling about these reveries. We are not completely
at peace with God's timing and we see, in God's grace that surrounds us and
so often saves us from our own foolishness, what seem to us like signs our
lost ones still look out for us. Trail magic. And we want to respond
somehow. So we walk 5000 miles or run 300 miles (Dean Karnazes in
Ultramarathon Man) or run through Death Valley in the summer heat (Kirk
Johnson in To the Edge) in their memory, as though we are somehow thanking
them. Maybe we are.
Wayne Kraft
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Coyle" <jcoyle@sanjuan.edu>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: [pct-l] RE: Scott Williamson
>
>. I don't
> particularly like the writer's style, who must set a record of his own for
> using the pronoun "you" the most times in a single article, but that is
> just
> my opinion and doesn't reflect on Scott Williamson and his accomplishment,
> which is truly admirable. (Scott Williamson did not write the article.)
>
> John Coyle
> Sacramento
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:31:57 -0700
From: John Mertes <jmertes@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Article on Scott Williamson
To: pmags@yahoo.com
Cc: PCT MailingList <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <42605CFD.7090300@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I too just received my May 2005 issue of /Backpacker/ magazine. Read the
article on Scott Williamson. It is a great article which talks about a
lot more than just Scott's yo-yo of the PCT. The article taqlks about
the life and anquish of Scott and some of the people in his life. Much
more than the usual trip tale. Definitely worth a read for almost
anyone, especially those of us/you who hike the long hike.
PS: Now when you join American Hiking Society (AmericanHiking.org) you
get a years subscription to /Backpacker/.
John
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Schaffer <scotts451@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Thru-hiking PCT w/dog?
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20050414211529.59462.qmail@web50206.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
My name is Jim Scotts and I plan on hiking the PCT this year with my dog Nanook. I plan on going really ultralight and have found tons of good info for me, but have not been able to find much info for long distance hiking for dogs.
My question is what?s a good ?rule of thumb? for the weight dogs can carry? I feel that 25 Lbs would be a conservative start for a Husky of her size (< 25% of her body weight), but wonder what would be expected once she gets back in shape.
Thanks,
"Big Jim"
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:41:28 EDT
From: Trekker4@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] ice axe to ?
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1b8.114a628b.2f91f178@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I'll try once more; I only got 1 opinion from my 1st request. Should I ship
my ice axe to S CA, and if so, where? Thanks.
Bob "Trekker"
Big Bend Desert Denizen
(Naturalized Citizen, Republic of Texas)
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:55:27 -0700
From: "Reynolds, WT" <reynolds@iLAN.com>
Subject: [pct-l] RE: April 1 Sierra Snow Prediction
To: "Reynolds, WT" <reynolds@iLAN.com>, "'Bighummel@aol.com'"
<Bighummel@aol.com>, "'pct-l@backcountry.net'" <pct-l@backcountry.net>
Cc: "'skygeorge@earthlink.net'" <skygeorge@earthlink.net>,
"'jstewart01@fs.fed.us'" <jstewart01@fs.fed.us>
Message-ID: <5F6876BC3ED30C48A7656379C7ABE87E0C6010@mail.ilan.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
As of April 15, the UTY snow pillar showed 40 inches of equilivent snow.
Forget an early melt.
Tom
_____
From: Reynolds, WT
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:42 AM
To: Reynolds, WT; 'Bighummel@aol.com'; 'pct-l@backcountry.net'
Cc: 'skygeorge@earthlink.net'; 'jstewart01@fs.fed.us'
Subject: April 1 Sierra Snow Prediction
To the Class of 2005
I know that persevering in the face of extreme difficulty is the key to
being a successful thruhiker. I also know that as the starting date gets
closer perceptual narrowing occurs as you focus on the adventure ahead and
nothing else. The result, by the way, is that one typically makes stupid
decisions on the trail.
The western states are in the midst of a six-year drought 1999-2004. In fact
that drought is continuing EXCEPT in Southern California where we have had
the wettest year in history. The situation is clear. The Southern Sierra has
more than 150% of normal snow. Although the April 1 snow measurements have
not been taken yet, an analysis of the Upper Tyndall Creek (UTY) snow
measurement indicates 153.4% of normal.
Since 1998 Greg "strider" Hummel and I have been watching.....and
trying....to predict the best date for a thruhiker to leave Kennedy meadows
and start thru the Sierra. Greg and I disagree when that should be by about
two weeks (Greg proposes leaving about 2 weeks earlier than I) based on how
we think the best way to negotiate Sierra: Go early and get a head start and
deal with the snow versus wait, don't deal with the snow; save yourself for
later. What Greg and I DON'T disagree on is our evaluation of the snowpack.
Therefore, please either:
1-Carry crampons and learn to use them [An ice axe is a given]
2-Plan on flip flopping, doing some sections from the north to the south
before attacking the Sierra Mountains.
3-Plan on leaving Kennedy Meadows very late and counting on a late start to
the 2005 winter weather in the Pacific Northwest.
You may not need to actually do any of the above. However, you should
develop your contingency plan now while you can still concentrate on
something other than one-foot-ahead-of-the-other.
The facts:
(If you find this complicated now, try it after walking 500 miles!)
150% of normal is a big snow year. 1998 was the worst followed by 1997. 1996
and 1995 were more normal years. However 1995 had a late storm so it acted
like a big snow year for thruhiking purposes.
For a thruhiker the question becomes: "When is the Sierra passable for a
thruhiker equipped with an ice axe and possessing a modicum of wintereering
skills?" The answer to this question is based on two facts and an
assumption.
1-How much snow accumulation is there?
2-How fast does it melt?
3-What are the correct conditions.
We are sure that the April 1 snowpack measurement will show 38-40" on UTY
and 150% of normal. We disagree on the optimum time to enter by about two
weeks. The decision on the optimum time really depends on the thruhikers
experience with snow. Greg goes and plays in the snow. I avoid it.
The question is then the snowmelt. A graph of the UTY snow readings during
the last 10 years indicates that the snow melts less than 4% between April 1
and May 1. It is true that we had an early melt in 2004 but the late snow in
1995 balances it out. The obvious conclusion is that it is unlikely that a
better prediction that this can be done until May. A quick melt [10%
probability] or a late storm [20% probability] are the only things that can
change what is normal-almost no melt before May.
There is a wide variation in the rate that the snowmelt takes place between
May 1 and June 1. For example, two years 1995 and 1996 have approximately
the same predicted snow accumulation on May 1 as I have predicted for May
2005, yet on June 1 one year had 250% of another. The inference is that,
even assuming that I have the May 1, 2005 snow depth correct, that doesn't
mean that, on May 1, 2005, I can predict the snow depth with any accuracy
on June 1, 2005.
My prediction is that the snow accumulation on UTY for 2005 will average 24"
on 6/1 with a possible high of 31" and a possible low of 13". In 1995 the
snow depth on May 1 was 38" and the June 1 depth was 31'-a slow May melt. In
1997, however, a late storm pushed the 5/1 accumulation to 37" but on June 1
the depth was only 13" - a fast May melt. The predicted accumulation for May
1, 2005 on UTY is, you guessed it, 38"
The huge variation in possible conditions for 2005 creates the need for
thruhikers to have contingency plans depending on which scenario plays out.
My advice is to seriously think out your plan now, not wait to see what
happens. The lower number gives a "0 snow on UTY" day prediction of 6/18
the same as 1997. In this case you can leave the Kennedy Meadow only a
little later than planned. The higher number, however, will give a ") snow
on UTY" day well into July like 1995. In the later case you will need to
flip flop, do some serious winter mountaineering that I hope you have
prepared for, or cool you heels for an additional month.
Predicting the snow melt
I wrote earlier that the snow melts only 4% in April. That is not exactly
true. The actual number is closer to 22%. The 4% value is for the UTY snow
pillar and is typical of elevations of 11,000' and above. Much of the Sierra
is much lower and melts earlier. Once the snow melts the government produces
a "Forecast of Runoff volume" for the Sierra Rivers every 5 days. This
report looks at the 5 day weather forecast and predicts the peak volume
runoff day for each river. Of interest are the southern rivers, most notably
the Kern and Kings. In some years the peak day for the Kings and Kern is
before Memorial Day. Sometimes the peak day is after 4th of July. This
report can be used to predict the snowmelt in May.
Another way is to look at information about the Whitney Trail from Lone Pine
and Mount Whitney. There are a series of 100 switchbacks up a steep ridge
between Consultation Lake and Trail Crest at 12,600' elevation. These
switchbacks stay icy till about the same time that the Forrester pass
switchbacks stay icy. Once the public advice on climbing Mt. Whitney advises
taking the trail as opposed to mountaineering directly up the slope, it is a
good bet that the Forrester Pass Trail will be passable to 12,600'
This is a good indicator of the Forrester Trail conditions but one must take
his own measure of mountaineering skill in determining what to attempt. This
is where Greg and I disagree. Above 12,600' the Forrester Pass Trail
continues another 600' and crosses a nasty and dangerous ice chute just
below the pass. This chute scares the hell out of me so I prefer to wait two
weeks while Greg feels confident negotiating it.
Although the Sierra snowpack prediction is unclear, there are some things
that are clear. There is no need to hurry to get to Kennedy Meadows.
Assuming normal progress from ADZPCTKO you will be cooling your heels for a
while when you get there. Take your time. Don't burn your feet out and take
care of your blisters. Have a good time in Lake Morena. The southern
mountains are also full of snow this year and interesting challenges await
you. Good luck Class of 2005.
I, of course, will be scuba diving in Cozumel, Mexico like any sane person.
Tom Reynolds
_____
From: Reynolds, WT
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:14 AM
To: Reynolds, WT; 'Bighummel@aol.com'; 'pct-l@backcountry.net'
Cc: 'skygeorge@earthlink.net'; 'jstewart01@fs.fed.us'
Subject: Sierra Snow Prediction - March 22nd
I can make a better prediction after the April 1 snow course measurements
but enough has happened since the March 1 prediction to warrant an update.
Greg "strider" Hummel advocates leaving Kennedy Meadow on, or slightly
before, the date when the snow sensor (UTY) near Forrester Pass reads zero.
I advocate leaving two weeks later. The main difference between us is that
Greg feels that the two week head start is worth the difficulty of dealing
with significant snow and water crossings while I do not. Essentially, both
Greg and I look at the same data and evaluate it the same way.
The raw data is this:
1-The snow sensor currenty reads 37 inches. That is less than the 43 inches
it read on this date in 1998 [the last big snow year] but more than it has
read any year since.
2-Current weather forcasts indicate 4 days of light precipitation between
now and April 1. I therefore predict [<-guess] that the April 1 depth to be
40 inches. This is less than 1998 when it hit 46 but 2005 still rates to be
a significent snow year.
3-The fastest melt in recent history was 2004, last year. The snow started
melting early and kept on melting, turining a significent accumulation into
essentially a low snow year from a thruhiker perspective due to the early
melt. If the same melt occurs this year, and there is no reason to think it
will, the "Zero Snow on the UTY Sensor" day will be about July 4th. If a
normal melt occurs that day will be closer to August 1.
4-Vermillion Vally Resort and Muir Trail Ranch will probably not be open in
June. This is because the Edison Company, under contract with the resorts in
the area, must plow the road by Memorial Day weekend if the snow depth is
below a certain level. It will not be. The road won't be plowed until Edison
gets around to it and its much easier to let the snow melt than plow. Even
if the road is plowed in late June it will take the resorts a week or two to
sort everything out. I am currently predicting that the resorts will be open
for the July 4th weekend, not before.
5-I advise that anyone considering negotiating the snow this year to beg the
powerers that be to pull Jonathan Breem's 1998 journal out of the archeives
so that you can read it carefully.
The main lesson to be learned from this update is how unreliable any
prediction is. Greg's March 1 prediction was based on a max of 36" snow
depth and an early mely commencing March 15. It didn't happen.
Tom Reynolds
_____
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:08:11 -0400
From: Gary Wright <at2002@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] ice axe to ?
To: Trekker4@aol.com
Cc: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <0f831448adb90709c0ccd9ff25e9a14b@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Apr 16, 2005, at 12:41 AM, Trekker4@aol.com wrote:
> I'll try once more; I only got 1 opinion from my 1st request. Should I
> ship
> my ice axe to S CA, and if so, where? Thanks.
If you'll need an ice axe, it will be over the San Jacinto Range.
If you plan to hitch to Idyllwild via the Pine-to-Palms Highway
then you could ship your ice axe to Idyllwild. If you plan to
hike down the Devil's slide trail into Idyllwild then you'll need
to get your ice axe earlier, probably from Warner Springs (or
maybe Anza, but most people don't resupply in Anza).
Many people talk about using an ice axe on Fuller Ridge,
which is *after* the Devil's Slide trail into Idyllwild but it seems
to me there are some seriously exposed areas of the trail before you
get to the turn-off into Idyllwild. In a couple places, the trail
is blasted into the rock face. I would think that these places
might call for an ice axe also (or an alternate route).
Note, I don't have any personal knowledge of the current snow
conditions or how the trail typically presents itself in a high
snow year, I'm just commenting based on the elevation and profile
of the trail and my one hike over it last year.
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:36:59 -0700
From: "Monty Tam" <metam01@earthlink.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Lost and Found in Warner Springs
To: "pct list" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, "adzpctko"
<adzpctko@yahoogroups.com>, "so_california_backpackers"
<so_california_backpackers@yahoogroups.com>
Message-ID: <410-22005461653659906@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Warner Springs Mini Mart's Manager, Lee called me today.
Someone found a Camera and......????????........................... along the road and they assume it belongs to a hiker.
She's holding it at the store.
Call 760.782.4275 and ask for Karen or Lee.
Describe the whole package and it's yours.
If anyone sees Jackalope(Jim), Dr. Bob, Freebird, or Smack, all northbound, let them know. They were four of about seven hikers that passed through at exactly the right time to loose this.
If anyone knows how to contact Hiker's Oasis, please pass this on.
Warner Springs Monty
Monty Tam
metam01@earthlink.net
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shutterbug steiner <shutterbugg313@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] ice axe to ?
To: pct <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <20050416054506.91142.qmail@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I just bought an BD pro ice axe tonight and am waiting for the trail report happening this weekend to see if I need it South of Baden Powell. My guess is Fuller Ridge and Baden Powell to LIttle Jimmys is where it will be essential if at all.
Duane
Trekker4@aol.com wrote:
I'll try once more; I only got 1 opinion from my 1st request. Should I ship
my ice axe to S CA, and if so, where? Thanks.
Bob "Trekker"
Big Bend Desert Denizen
(Naturalized Citizen, Republic of Texas)
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Message: 29
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:56:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shutterbug steiner <shutterbugg313@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Foot problems
To: pct <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <20050416055654.61584.qmail@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
A couple months ago when the dialogue was around about foot issues I erased or barely skimmed the info saying "I don't have foot problems." Well I do now and I thought up until today that I would have to postpone my PCT section hike from Mexico to Home in Lake Arrowhead next week. Around Easter I hiked section E 100 miles in fairly new NEW BALANCE 807's. Left foot started to pain after a two days on the outside middle arch. I ignored it and continued to hike for the reamining three days limping into the Saufley's. I figured the pain would go away but it did not. After 10 days and no improvement I went to get Xrays thinking it might be a hair liine fracture. The Xray came back inconclusive and my foot started to feel better so I attempted a 15 mile day hike in Snow Creek last Sunday. It started to hurt immeditately, I then thought my dream of hiking this Spring were over and I set up an appointment with a podiatrist today to confirm that. By today most of my pain wa
s gone
and I had done a short hike yesterday with my winter boots without any pain. Today my podiatrist took the time and answered my questions ..... confirmed my suspinsion that it was not a foot problem but a shoe problem..... he coached my on the how and the why of having a firm sole and laughed at my two pairs of NB and expained why they hurt my feet. I then went to REI and purchased a hiking shoe that weighs more than my NB but feels really solid ....... I am going to test my new shoes out a few times this week and hopefully it will work and I will be joining the herd next week. I hope with very little pain.
Duane= shutterbugg
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------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:21:30 -0400
From: "The Weathercarrot" <weathercarrot@hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] ice axe to ?
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net, Trekker4@aol.com
Message-ID: <BAY104-F281BD0E1591E21A761C220AE370@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Bob "Trekker" wrote:
<< Should I ship my ice axe to S CA, and if so, where? >>
Radar responded:
<< Many people talk about using an ice axe on Fuller Ridge,
which is *after* the Devil's Slide trail into Idyllwild but it seems
to me there are some seriously exposed areas of the trail before you
get to the turn-off into Idyllwild. In a couple places, the trail
is blasted into the rock face. I would think that these places
might call for an ice axe also (or an alternate route). >>
Just to add to that - When Chris and Jenelle were northbound in the VERY
high snow year of 1998, they said that one of the most precarious areas of
snow they had to cross was in a few short stretches south of the Devil's
Slide turn-off. Before the PCT somewhat levels out on more gentle terrain,
there are apparently some very steep snow chutes, most likely in those 2 or
3 spots where you round the corner abruptly from southeast slope to north
slope. Chris told me that he found one of those spots to be worse than
anything he had in the Sierra. My suggestion would be to either get the axe
at Warner Springs, unless Kamp Anza (Hiker's Paradise - a recommended stop)
is accepting packages.
wc
------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:31:11 -0700
From: "Wayne Kraft" <waynekraft@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Foot problems
To: "Shutterbug steiner" <shutterbugg313@yahoo.com>, "pct"
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000e01c54290$f0990090$6a01a8c0@VALUEDEB5B1687>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
What shoe did you wind up with? You might consider the green Superfeet
insole to add stability/motion control.
Wayne Kraft
>. Today my podiatrist took the time and answered my questions .....
>confirmed my suspinsion that it was not a foot problem but a shoe
>problem..... he coached my on the how and the why of having a firm sole and
>laughed at my two pairs of NB and expained why they hurt my feet. I then
>went to REI and purchased a hiking shoe that weighs more than my NB but
>feels really solid ....... I am going to test my new shoes out a few times
>this week and hopefully it will work and I will be joining the herd next
>week. I hope with very little pain.
>
> Duane= shutterbugg
------------------------------
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End of pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 26
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