[pct-l] Injection molding - Bear cans

[msaenz at mve-architects.com (Mike Saenz)]

Depending on the complexity of the part (number of cavities, surfaces,
size, etc.) injection molds appear to cost anywhere from $2,000 to
$250,000.
http://members.aol.com/skibelt/pricing.htm

also, the mold materiel itself can affect the costs.

A simple can should cost near the minimal end of the range.

The actual creation of the mold, as well as the injection/production of
the final product is outsourced to a company that does this stuff for
many other product "manufacturers" (usually pieces are sent elsewhere
for assembly).

When my father started his desk-top water bottle biz, his costs for the
labeling of the cardboard boxes used to ship these in were almost as
much as the bottle's unit cost itself! As to quantity, my father rented
a very small shop space (around 1000 s.f.) in an obscure commercial park
to center his marketing, shipping and storage from.
He used his Ford F-150 to make his shipments. When the biz wound down,
he elft his shop and stored his inventory in two large storage rental
spaces. He marketed to supermarkets, specialty "water stores" and even
swap meets. Yes, it was a small operation, but it netted him some
serious $$$. My point is: If he could do it "on the cheap", anyone
could. Remember, he was retired and simply saw an opportunity and
invested minimal time and money into it.

As to engineering and testing, what's to engineer? The material
(polycarb) is already proven to be a viable material. Testing is simply
submission to the SIBBG.

Anyway, I've e-mailed Nalgene to suggest they take a look at this. I'm
not advocating any of use to start up a business like this. I just think
the $75 cost is exorbitant and that an outfit like Nalgene, who has the
wherewithal to market a competitive bear can, could lower the end-user
cost. There are plenty of other companies like Nalgene that could pull
this off as well.

Am I the only one here who thinks Garcia and Bear Vault are gouging us
because we're required to carry cans???


M i c h a e l   S a e n z
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e    P l a n n i n g    I n t e r i o r s
w  w  w  .  m  v  e  -  a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s  .  c  o  m


-----Original Message-----
From: Nina Turner [mailto:yosaphina@mac.com] 
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:41 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Injection molding - Bear cans

Actually - creating a new injection mold is pretty capital intensive.
In my past company the cost of a mold could get up to $250,000 or more 
- depends on the size of the steel, how many modifications you make 
etc.  Of course a can is an easy shape, but I wonder how many 
iterations of the threads they had to go through.

Lexan costs about $2.00 a lb if you don't buy in large bulk, maybe 
more.  You have $4 for the material + you need to cover the cost of the 
set-up (sometimes takes 30min-1 hr), overage (scrap from slight optical 
imperfections which customers demand and dimensional tolerance 
requirements), and you have to cover the cost of the mold.  Injection 
molded products are cheap if you manufacture in high quantity, and keep 
your floor running (utilization).  I'm assuming they outsource that 
part so they also pay for a margin to the manufacturer.  For this size 
of can you probably pay to use at least a 500 ton press which isn't 
chump change either.  It isn't like making toys or thin-wall blow 
molded bottles.  The bigger the part, the bigger the press, and the 
more expensive it is since the outsource mfg also has to cover all his 
capital outlay.

So your price has to take all those factors into consideration, the 
competition, as well as the marketing, distribution, and 
engineering/testing costs.  People pay lots of money for an itty bitty 
titanium cup and other hiking gear.  For as small a market as this is, 
you cannot be in business being a low margin company because you don't 
make it up in volume.   If you are a company, you profit maximize.

That being said, my husband and I mostly disagree about bear can 
requirements.  But even my hubby(thru-hiker this year) thinks that 
everyone should carry one in Yosemite because that is hard core bear 
area.  He has seen mistakes made by others, and bear scat with tin foil 
in it.  I say if you are out there, you follow the requirements.  If 
you misjudge (and thru-hikers do dumb things too), you contribute to 
the problem of trouble bears.

Nina

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