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[pct-l] Hwy 299- PCT handbook Directions to Burney?
- Subject: [pct-l] Hwy 299- PCT handbook Directions to Burney?
- From: rellinwood at att.net (rellinwood@att.net)
- Date: Fri Jul 23 13:48:11 2004
This information is not accurate. The town of Burney is on Hiway 299
approximately 7 miles from the PCT Trailhead as Yogi notes. However, if you are
referring to Burney Falls State Park which is along the PCT and has a store that
holds mail drops, yes, you will need to go West on Hiway 89 at the 299/89
intersection. Note also, that the 299 trailhead is no more than 1 mile from the
299/89 intersection.
Jeff Singewald
________________________________
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net on behalf of Bruce Harvey
Sent: Sat 7/10/2004 1:00 PM
To: AsABat; The Mountain Goat; pct mailing list
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hwy 299- PCT handbook Directions to Burney?
>From maps N18 and N19, hikers at Hwy 299 hitching to Burney will need to get
out at the Hwy 89 junction and do another hitch north of 89, unless their
first ride is going to Burney. (I don"t have Yogi's PCT Handbook, it may
include the detail.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "AsABat"
To: "The Mountain Goat" ; "pct mailing list"
Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hwy 299- PCT handbook Directions to Burney?
> "Yogi's PCT Handbook" (that's the full title of the book) incorrectly says
> about Burney on page 229:
> "Hitch 7 miles to the right on Highway 299."
>
> I've bcc'd this message to her for her information, although she's on the
> CDT this year.
>
> AsABat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > > On Jul 8, 2004, at 10:51 PM, The Mountain Goat wrote:
> > >
> > > > I was up on business on hwy 299 near Burney (and Burney Falls) on
> > > > 7/8/04
> > > > Sooo, I decided to take a hike and met a through hiker; Dan.
> > > > He aparently had an issue with the PCT handbook. Said that Burney
was
> > > > to the left on Hwy 299, I thought about it, and it is a left if you
> > > > are going North Bound.
> > > >
> > > > Could someone look up in the PCT Handbook, to see which way the book
> > > > says Burney is from 299?
> > > >
> > > > The correct answer is LEFT (for North Bound Personel)
> > > >
> > > > -Mountain Goat-
>
> _______________________________________________
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> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
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>
>
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http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lFrom Paul.C.Griffith at bankofamerica.com Wed Jul 14 11:56:45 2004
From: Paul.C.Griffith at bankofamerica.com (Griffith, Paul C)
Date: Fri Jul 23 13:48:31 2004
Subject: [pct-l] RE: 45 degree bag
Message-ID: <80D54F4B6B1F12488AD44C600D3BE857905317@ex2k.bankofamerica.com>
I did Washington in late August/early Sept. of 2001 with a "40 degree" quilt (homemade Jardine quilt equal to old Golite "Fuzz"). That and a 5 ounce vest got me through OK - a few shivers here and there. Check out the Sierra Designs "Wicked Fastbag" - 30degree version weighs 21 oz, costs $210, REI #707138. 45degree weighs 15 oz, $170, REI #707129. They are quilts zipped to a bottom sheet - lose the bottom sheet and save another 4 oz, esp. if you have a light bivy bag like the 6.5oz $60 Equinox at www.backcountrygear.com. And you can wear the quilt like a shawl in camp or at rest stops, and leave your insulated jacket/vest home. If I'd seen this stuff last year, I'd have saved a week of sewing my own down quilt and ultra-light bivy for the Sierras.
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net]On Behalf Of
pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 9:45 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 16
Send pct-l mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of pct-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. 45 degree bag?? North Cal and Oregon? (Monty Tam)
2. Re: Scout Merit Badge Hikes (Karl Duff)
3. Re: Bear Boxes Giant Forest (Joanne Lennox)
4. Jerky receipes (Norma)
5. San Jac fire (Irwin Reeves)
6. Starting Belden -- Cascade Locks next week (Christopher Mills)
7. Re: Sonora Pass (backpack45scb)
8. Re: PCT advice (matt maxon)
9. Re: Bear Boxes Giant Forest (Ilja Friedel)
10. RE: Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras (Mike Saenz)
11. Re: Re: PCT advice (Steve Courtway)
12. Re: Mike's bear experiment (Steve Courtway)
13. Water Caches (Paul Magnanti)
14. Dogs and Food for Thought (CharlieJones@aol.com)
15. RE: Mike's bear experiment (Mike Saenz)
16. Re: Mike's bear experiment (Steve Courtway)
17. Re: Bear Boxes Giant Forest (Joanne Lennox)
18. RE: Mike's bear experiment (Mike Saenz)
19. Re "ultralight water cache dependant route" (Marge Prothman)
20. Re: San Jac fire (Eric Yakel)
21. Re: "ultralight water cache dependant route" (Bob Bankhead)
22. Re: San Jac fire (Don Line)
23. Re: Verbenia Fire -- Snow Creek x Hwy 111, San Jacinto Area
(Craig Milo Rogers)
24. Re: Lake Hughes Fire ("Pine Incident") (Craig Milo Rogers)
25. Pine Fire PCT Closure (Lake Hughes, CA) (Craig Milo Rogers)
26. Re: Verbenia Fire (San Jct Fire) (Craig Milo Rogers)
27. Re: Verbenia Fire (San Jct Fire) (Craig Milo Rogers)
28. RE: Re "ultralight water cache dependant route" (Joe Percival)
29. Re: California Section P condition report (Carl Siechert)
30. Good Journal Entry (Dan and Nina)
31. (no subject) (yuppatt@att.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:09:31 -0700
From: "Monty Tam" <metam01@earthlink.net>
Subject: [pct-l] 45 degree bag?? North Cal and Oregon?
To: "pct-l" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <410-2200473145931200@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
How well would a 45 degree bag work right now north of the Sierras? When, if at all, would I need to change bags on the way to Manning?
I do have four layers of good warmth besides the bag. I'm looking at the Mountain Hardware Phantom +45, 17 oz., half zip (REI # 706122).
Thanks
Monty Tam
metam01@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:12:01 -0700
From: Karl Duff <kduff@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Scout Merit Badge Hikes
To: Joanne Lennox <goforth@cnw.com>
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <40F417E0.F8DC4E87@ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Dear Russ,
I imagine we all presumed you had a PCT guidebook for Oregon. Hence a
simple entry into one of the starting points we have suggested should lead
quickly to an opportune exit at approximately 20 miles.
Example: Start at Barlow Pass (elevation 4155 ft.) and proceed South to
Clackamas Lake Campground (elevation 3346 ft.). Distance is 19.8 miles. If you
wanted to exit sooner, say at Little Crater Meadow Forest camp (elevation 3220
ft.) which is 5.9 miles N. (by trail) of the Clackamas Lake Campground, then you
could possibly justify starting at Timberline Lodge (elevation 5940 ft.) 5.0
miles North of Barlow Pass. You should easily be able to tack on another mile
or so beyond Clackamas Lake Campground, (to make up for the approximately .9
mile reduced distance cited above) by proceeding SE on the PCT to the
intersection with road S549.
I hope this is sufficiently helpful to clarify the recommendation I've twice
previously made, though perhaps not with enough clarity to sound like a specific
20 mile segment.
Good hiking to you. Yours in backpacking and Scouting, Karl Duff
Joanne Lennox wrote:
> there are lots of 20 mile segments in Oregon, but you need to choose
> something fairly easy , that can be driven to at both ends and in the
> middle, that do not involve hazardous terrain, confusing trail junctions,
> have easy acess from trailheads and for you probably good access from the
> west side of the cascades.
>
> The Santiam to McKenzie Pass would be a long way down on my list for Scouts.
> That lava is very hard on the feet and boots, not to mention the lack of
> appeal(any slip or fall would have immediate consequences). This segment is
> only 17 miles and very unscenic and no water and not much easy
> straightforward access in the middle. Mainly this is the area of last years
> big burn. I do not know the exact boundries of the burn but this area was
> closed during theburn. It also includes a sizeable climb around Belnap and
> Mt Washington. I advise you to hike this section first if you plan to do it
> with the scouts.
>
> Better you should go to Willimette Pass and hike the 18 miles to summit
> Lake. This goes past Diamond Peak and should not be considered in a
> thunderstorm, which is what I was contending with. Or the PCT alternate of
> Willemette Pass to Crescent Lake on the Whitefish trail (dusty, not scenic,
> you could add a few miles on either end). Summit Lake to Windigo Pass would
> seem to be good, but I would not drive road 60 again even with a 4WD, and
> some of the trail junctions are not marked(I ended up at Waldo Lake). Also
> no good roads for half way points and an old fire created a lot of downed
> timber.
>
> You might also consider some 20 mile segments near Ashland. I realize that
> is a long way to drive but it is a fairly quick straight forward drive to
> Ashland on I-5. 20 mile segment between wrangle Gap to I-5 (long drive into
> Wrangle Gap and the last part on rough dirt road, trail crosses the road
> numerous times, scenic, and fairly flat, water, campgrounds) I-5 to Little
> Hyatt Reservoir (few easy road crossings, not a lot of water, fairly scenic,
> water for swimming and camping at end); Little Hyatt Reservoir to DEad
> Indian Road (not scenic, confusing trail and road croassings, have to know
> where the water is to find it, fairly level and will be cool in the trees).
>
> goforth
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Logerwell, Russell M" <russ.logerwell@hp.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 9:15 AM
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Scout Merit Badge Hikes
>
> > I greatly appreciate all the advice about conditioning the scouts --
> > your experience may save some feet and keep their hiking interest high.
> >
> > But I was disappointed that only 1 person responded with a 20-mile hike
> > suggestion -- thanks 'goforth'.
> >
> > Are there so few 20-mile segments in Oregon?
> >
> > What about McKenzie Pass to Santiam Pass? Lava at Belnap make this too
> > difficult?
> >
> > Warmest regards,
> > Russ Logerwell
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:12:52 -0700
From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cnw.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Boxes Giant Forest
To: "Ilja Friedel" <pctl@ilja.ws>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c468fc$a29afc90$fbc49342@D1WZL841>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Bear Boxes are fairly small, one person can fill half a box fairly easily if
they are out for any amount of time(Bulky food, everything smelly, pans).
this is why, BEAR BOXES ARE NOT FOR CACHING FOOD. I have arrived at bear
boxes at dusk and found them full, and too tired to go on. What do you do
when you know there will be a bear there in the night (certain locations and
this will be almost inevitable). Please do not abuse this privilege!!!
Caching food at trailheads can be just as much a problem!! Either in a car
or hung in a tree and you are teaching bears to get the food. All of us
have to contend with this problem and it usually goes like this: you have to
have someone bring you the food, or hitchhike out to a store or post office
to get it, or carry more than you would like to began with, or find a nearby
trail angel or ranger that is willing to keep the food. etc. Mineral King
had a cache shed at the end of the road, perhaps lodge pole has something
similar, but please do not just hang it in a tree at roads end.
Goforth
---- Original Message -----
From: "Ilja Friedel" <pctl@ilja.ws>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 11:06 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Bear Boxes Giant Forest
> Hi,
>
> not exactly PCT related, but close (Sequoia NP):
> I'm planing a hike this fall from Roads End over Lodge Pole/Giant Forest
> to Harrison Pass (a little west of Forester Pass) and back down to Roads
> End. For this I need to cache food either at Lodge Pole or Giant Forest.
> I'd prefer Giant Forest for load balancing reasons. But are there enough
> bear boxes available for hikers in that area? Or is it better to leave the
> food at Lodge Pole (do they have a post office or other facilities?).
>
> Ilja.
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:14:25 -0700
From: "Norma" <n.ruiz@verizon.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Jerky receipes
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <00d501c468fc$dacafd40$473d8944@Ruiz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I would like to thank you all for writeing back to me for the receipes, one in perticular,thanks Chuck&Sharon, and Dave,,,! you do it like I do, one more guestion is,what would Honey & liquid smoke do in an contoxion I did out of,brown suger,musterd,Tarriaki sause,a little wine ? I know there is more receipes out there, Howard
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:17:00 -0700
From: "Irwin Reeves" <ipreeves@airenetworks.com>
Subject: [pct-l] San Jac fire
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c468fd$35d78d70$6400a8c0@ipreeves>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The fire on the north side of Mt San Jacinto runs from
appox. the area of the drinking fountain at the bottom up to
the near the north end of Fuller Ridge. I can see
the area from my backyard. At the present (7/13/04 @
10 am) there are 2 thin lines of smoke going straight up.
NO WIND! However, this can change quickly here in the
San Gorgonio Pass area - that is why the wind mills are
here. Compared to this time yesterday the fire seems to
have laid down. But there are still helicopters working.
Irwin Reeves (Crash)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:30:23 -0400
From: "Christopher Mills" <Christopher.Mills@law.duke.edu>
Subject: [pct-l] Starting Belden -- Cascade Locks next week
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <s0f3e40b.024@smtpout.law.duke.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi All,
I hiked the PCT in 2000 with the exception of the Belden to Cascade Locks segment. I'm leaving next Monday or Tuesday to hike the part I missed. I ordered Yogi's handbook, but I am not optimistic about receiving it in time. I know she is on the CDT now and I am not sure who is handling the mailing of her book.
I have the Northern CA and Oregon+WA guidebooks waiting for me in CA when I fly out this week. I also have the data book and town guide there.
I have already picked up on some useful new information from this list, but if there is anything else I should know about this section that is different than 2000, please send the info my way! Sorry for the utter vagueness of that question. Trail angel, re-route, water stash, new resupply info (changed since 2000) would all be helpful.
Thanks!
Chris, aka Hiker816
http://shotgunmills.tripod.com/
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:32:45 -0700
From: backpack45scb <rbalcorn@gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Re: Sonora Pass
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <aeff7eb4040713103224af75f7@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Can't tell you about North yet, will be doing that in a few weeks, but
just from looking at the guide books, it is not nearly as impressive
as going South for about 10 miles. Last year we went from Toulumne
Meadows to Sonora Pass. That last 10 miles or so is totally gorgeous,
very high and trail is on or close to the ridgeline most of the time.
The rocks are volcanic not granite so more colorful than JMT. We had
an afternoon thunderstorm that made for great lighting, but a little
scary as very little shelter from lightning. No water at all on this
section. There is a lake that is maybe a half mile of a steep downhill
from the trail. I ran out of film at the start of that section and was
so impressed that I went back several weeks later and did an overnight
dry camp in and out.
--
Ralph Alcorn
www.backpack45.com
Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of We're in the Mountains, Not Over
the Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned Women Backpackers
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:32:44 -0700
From: "matt maxon" <matt@mattmaxon.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Re: PCT advice
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>, <ninskyaroo@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ae01c468ff$68c92b60$6c01a8c0@putterhyper>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Erin
RE: water filters, how are you planning to hike the trail?
Are you going the Ultra lite-Water Cache dependant route or are you going to
obtain from natural/man made sources & carry most of your water?
I'd say if you are going to use water caches the Katadyn mini filter is
sufficent, otherwise I prefer the Katadyn Camp. It's certainly not light @
23oz, but it puts out 5L/per hr with little or no effort and there is no
pump to break!
And belive me you'll need lots of water along the Southern California Region
of the trail, I'm not sure were you're from but be assured it's very
different from northern and eastern US
http://www.katadyn.ch/site/us/home/outdoor_products/our_products/endurance_series/camp/
Trail90
----- Original Message -----
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 20:06:14 +0000
> From: "Erin Reading" <ninskyaroo@hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] PCT advice
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BAY2-F10ritaPhaXD5n000333a9@hotmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Hello!
>
> I'm going to be thru-hiking the PCT in 2005, and I have a couple questions
I
> would love for you guys to answer...
>
> First, I'm about to order my sleeping bag from Feathered Friends, and I
was
> wondering if it would be better to get the Quantum Pertex fabric, which is
> the lightest they have, or the Epic, which is heavier but much more
> waterproof and durable. I'm going to be hiking with my dog, who I'm sure
> will be walking and sleeping on it quite often also, so I'm not sure if
the
> Quantum will hold up well enough.
>
> Second, is the Katadyn Mini Filter an OK choice for a filter?
>
> Third, I would love to have some dog advice...most of the books I read are
> far from helpful, being almost offensive. He will be two years old when we
> hike it and in extremely good shape. He climbs mountains about three to
four
> times a week in the summer and two to three times in the winter and
> absolutely loves it...he can handle class 2 stuff fine and a little class
3.
> He has also done fine doing really long mileages with lots of elevation
> gain...like yesterday was like 20 miles with over 9000 ft total elevation
> gain and he did awesome. So, I'm not too worried about him being fit
enough,
> but I'm not sure what to do about his feet, backpack, or food. Where in
the
> world do you get ultra-light hiking gear for dogs? What is the lightest
and
> best food? Are boots enough, or does he need extra foot care? If anyone
has
> hiked the PCT with their dog, I would love to correspond with you!!!
>
> Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> -Erin B & Kosmic
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ilja Friedel <pctl@ilja.ws>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Boxes Giant Forest
To: Joanne Lennox <goforth@cnw.com>
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<Pine.LNX.4.44.0407131107170.18433-100000@orchestra.cs.caltech.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Joanne,
> boxes at dusk and found them full, and too tired to go on. What do you do
> when you know there will be a bear there in the night (certain locations and
> this will be almost inevitable). Please do not abuse this privilege!!!
Well, multiple trails start at Giant Forest. From what I've gathered there
should be some bear boxes around to cache food at the trail head. But I
would like to get some confirmation about it. Unfortunately you do not
provide any information on my questions.
I've searched and Lodgepole has a post office. But it is only open during
weekdays and depending for which starting day I'll get the permit that may
not help me.
Oh, I also don't intend to hang food at all. Ever. I have a Garcia and
just ordered a BearVault BV200. I'm a little nervous about the failures
mentioned in the past days. Maybe I'll return it for a Garcia, but I liked
the weight savings and (supposedly) larger size.
Ilja.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:30:13 -0700
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras
To: "Joel Dasenko" <dbcpa@empnet.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<157A61E98909CA47A3BBC4D6E5A7737701CFA184@server3.mvenet.ad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Ahhhhhhhhh.......
Just back from 4 days in the Golden Trout Wilderness. Had an awesome
time!
Regarding bear boxes, I didn't see any at the Cottonwood Pass trailhead
out of Horseshoe Meadow. The ranger station, though not requiring bear
cans, "highly recommended" them. The guy I talked to said that there was
a bear that works this area that knows how to take down even the best
counterbalanced hangs. So I rented a can. My buddy scoffed at the bear
threat and insisted on hanging his food. Actually, since we shared the
food load, we had some of it in the can, and some of it hung. So, as an
"experiment" we had the can sitting directly underneath the hung food
bag. Each night we set this up in this manner. ...and not even the
slightest evidence of any bear was found the entire trip!
We started out from Horseshoe Meadow at around 9am Friday morning (drove
up from work Thursday night, a six hour drive, and slept in the back of
my truck) and made for Cottonwood Pass. At the pass, the PCT crosses the
trail down into the GTW. We took the PCT for a short hike up to Chicken
Spring Lake Saw no one until we pitched camp at the lake. We tried
everything to catch fish, but we didn't even get "nibbles". Temps ranged
from the high 80's, with a very refreshing cold wind, to 39 at night.
"severe clear" and BIG blue skies.
Next morning was cross-country down to Big Whitney Meadow, then westward
to Rocky Basin Lakes. Saturday night camp was just below Rocky Basin
alongside a pretty little pond (though I made it to the largest lake of
Rocky Basin via the "footpath" route, I became separated from my buddy
and spent 3 hours and 7 miles before finding him camped alongside the
"horse trail". By the time we hooked up again, neither he nor I was
interested in hiking up to the lakes - a small adventure story in
itself...
The next morning we climbed the rest of the way to Rocky Basin. As it
was very warm and the hike up to the lakes was fairly strenuous AND we
were three days without a shower, when we got to the first lake, the
packs were dropped, the clothes were stripped off and into the water we
went! Very cold water, but washing away the grime, sweat and crusty DEET
residue was well worth the shivers!
The rest of the day was spent trying to catch fish at Rocky Basin Lakes,
but again, we were "skunked". We left the lakes in the late afternoon to
start our hike back.
I was told by a ranger from the Lone Pine station that "every stream and
lake is filled with hungry fish". Hmmmmmm... could it be my fishing
skills? ...Naw...
We DID see many fish in the streams that meander through Big Whitney
Meadow as we crossed it heading to Rocky Basin. I tried casting to them,
but the streams are only about 2-3 feet wide and the trout spook easily.
I didn't catch any (got a couple of strikes, but no takers). Also, a
massive grasshopper hatch was underway with plague-proportions of tiny
hoppers swarming around the trail crossing. A significant percentage of
these were falling into the water to be devoured by the trout waiting in
the water below.
Sunday was our hike back. We camped in that big island of trees in the
middle of Big Whitney Meadow. We wanted fresh morning legs for the climb
back up Cottonwood Pass.
After pitching camp, we saw a guy fishing one of the steams, so I walked
out to the water to try my luck again. I tied on a dry bumble bee fly
(looks remarkable like a black grasshopper when wet...) on my third
cast, a 5 inch golden trout made a grab for it! That was my single fish
caught the entire trip. While cleaning it, I found that it was literally
STUFFED with small grasshoppers! It was into the frying pan to
supplement our dinner that night! Heard coyote howls during the night in
the meadow, but aside from that it was dead quiet.
The mosquitoes were active at dawn and again at dusk, but with liberal
applications of DEET, they were manageable. I got bit a few times, but
it was a very small price to pay for such a glorious 4-day weekend!
Head properly adjusted and back in the office...
M i c h a e l S a e n z
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e P l a n n i n g I n t e r i o r s
w w w . m v e - a r c h i t e c t s . c o m
-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Dasenko [mailto:dbcpa@empnet.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:51 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras
>
>
Last year or 2, someone posted the locations of bear boxes on or near
the PCT. Hopefully, someone can provide a list of the areas on or near
the PCT between Cottonwood Pass and Mono Creek where bearproof boxes
exist. My son and I are carrying bear cannisters, but early on there is
no way all the food will fit. Thanks for any help. Joel Dasenko.
_______________________________________________
pct-l mailing list
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
unsubscribe or change options:
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:06:50 -0700
From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: PCT advice
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <073701c4690c$8dcdb810$8000a8c0@STATION128>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In review from what we saw this season, anyone (and their dog) who uses the
so called "ultralight water cache dependant route" is possibly depriving
someone who actually NEEDS the water of its intended use.
water for thought,
s.c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "matt maxon" <matt@mattmaxon.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>; <ninskyaroo@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: [pct-l] Re: PCT advice
> RE: water filters, how are you planning to hike the trail?
>
> Are you going the Ultra lite-Water Cache dependant route or are you going
to
> obtain from natural/man made sources & carry most of your water?
>
> I'd say if you are going to use water caches the Katadyn mini filter
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:11:41 -0700
From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <074201c4690d$3b2b47c0$8000a8c0@STATION128>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
mr. saenz writes:
>So, as an"experiment" we had the can sitting directly underneath the hung
food bag. Each night we set this up in this manner. ...and not even the
slightest evidence of any bear was found the entire trip!
what exactly was logical basis of your experiment, other than providing a
step-stool for the bear to reach your hung bag ?
s.c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
To: "Joel Dasenko" <dbcpa@empnet.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras
> Ahhhhhhhhh.......
>
> Just back from 4 days in the Golden Trout Wilderness. Had an awesome
> time!
>
> Regarding bear boxes, I didn't see any at the Cottonwood Pass trailhead
> out of Horseshoe Meadow. The ranger station, though not requiring bear
> cans, "highly recommended" them. The guy I talked to said that there was
> a bear that works this area that knows how to take down even the best
> counterbalanced hangs. So I rented a can. My buddy scoffed at the bear
> threat and insisted on hanging his food. Actually, since we shared the
> food load, we had some of it in the can, and some of it hung. So, as an
> "experiment" we had the can sitting directly underneath the hung food
> bag. Each night we set this up in this manner. ...and not even the
> slightest evidence of any bear was found the entire trip!
>
> We started out from Horseshoe Meadow at around 9am Friday morning (drove
> up from work Thursday night, a six hour drive, and slept in the back of
> my truck) and made for Cottonwood Pass. At the pass, the PCT crosses the
> trail down into the GTW. We took the PCT for a short hike up to Chicken
> Spring Lake Saw no one until we pitched camp at the lake. We tried
> everything to catch fish, but we didn't even get "nibbles". Temps ranged
> from the high 80's, with a very refreshing cold wind, to 39 at night.
> "severe clear" and BIG blue skies.
> Next morning was cross-country down to Big Whitney Meadow, then westward
> to Rocky Basin Lakes. Saturday night camp was just below Rocky Basin
> alongside a pretty little pond (though I made it to the largest lake of
> Rocky Basin via the "footpath" route, I became separated from my buddy
> and spent 3 hours and 7 miles before finding him camped alongside the
> "horse trail". By the time we hooked up again, neither he nor I was
> interested in hiking up to the lakes - a small adventure story in
> itself...
> The next morning we climbed the rest of the way to Rocky Basin. As it
> was very warm and the hike up to the lakes was fairly strenuous AND we
> were three days without a shower, when we got to the first lake, the
> packs were dropped, the clothes were stripped off and into the water we
> went! Very cold water, but washing away the grime, sweat and crusty DEET
> residue was well worth the shivers!
> The rest of the day was spent trying to catch fish at Rocky Basin Lakes,
> but again, we were "skunked". We left the lakes in the late afternoon to
> start our hike back.
>
> I was told by a ranger from the Lone Pine station that "every stream and
> lake is filled with hungry fish". Hmmmmmm... could it be my fishing
> skills? ...Naw...
>
> We DID see many fish in the streams that meander through Big Whitney
> Meadow as we crossed it heading to Rocky Basin. I tried casting to them,
> but the streams are only about 2-3 feet wide and the trout spook easily.
> I didn't catch any (got a couple of strikes, but no takers). Also, a
> massive grasshopper hatch was underway with plague-proportions of tiny
> hoppers swarming around the trail crossing. A significant percentage of
> these were falling into the water to be devoured by the trout waiting in
> the water below.
> Sunday was our hike back. We camped in that big island of trees in the
> middle of Big Whitney Meadow. We wanted fresh morning legs for the climb
> back up Cottonwood Pass.
> After pitching camp, we saw a guy fishing one of the steams, so I walked
> out to the water to try my luck again. I tied on a dry bumble bee fly
> (looks remarkable like a black grasshopper when wet...) on my third
> cast, a 5 inch golden trout made a grab for it! That was my single fish
> caught the entire trip. While cleaning it, I found that it was literally
> STUFFED with small grasshoppers! It was into the frying pan to
> supplement our dinner that night! Heard coyote howls during the night in
> the meadow, but aside from that it was dead quiet.
> The mosquitoes were active at dawn and again at dusk, but with liberal
> applications of DEET, they were manageable. I got bit a few times, but
> it was a very small price to pay for such a glorious 4-day weekend!
>
> Head properly adjusted and back in the office...
>
> M i c h a e l S a e n z
> McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
> A r c h i t e c t u r e P l a n n i n g I n t e r i o r s
> w w w . m v e - a r c h i t e c t s . c o m
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Dasenko [mailto:dbcpa@empnet.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:51 PM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras
>
> >
> >
> Last year or 2, someone posted the locations of bear boxes on or near
> the PCT. Hopefully, someone can provide a list of the areas on or near
> the PCT between Cottonwood Pass and Mono Creek where bearproof boxes
> exist. My son and I are carrying bear cannisters, but early on there is
>
> no way all the food will fit. Thanks for any help. Joel Dasenko.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Water Caches
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040713191307.71058.qmail@web52704.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>In review from what we saw this season, anyone (and
>>their dog) who uses the so called "ultralight water
>>cache dependant route" is possibly depriving
>>someone who actually NEEDS the water of its intended
>>use.
Exactly! Remember, the water caches, while not
strictly for emergency use, are meant for a liter or
two at the most. Be prepated to carry water as needed
and DO NOT COUNT ON THE CACHES. More than one hiker
has really foulded up by depending upon a cache and
finding it empty upon arriving at the cache.
I'd hate for water caches to be used the same way
people use shelters on the AT. ("I'll ditch my
tent/tarp because there are always shelters on the AT.
I want to go ultralite").
Be prepared...carry your water!
=====
************************************************************
The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
--Thoreau
http://www.magnanti.com
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:17:44 EDT
From: CharlieJones@aol.com
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs and Food for Thought
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <f7.3cec3314.2e258f58@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
It's too bad that dogs can't talk ... then they could tell their owners
whether THEY want to attempt a Thru-hike to Canada. Instead, they are so eager to
please their master (male or female), they will give their very life trying
to do what YOU want to do. Speak up, Rover! You have rights too.
Here's hoping that no dogs (nor dog owners) die on the PCT this year.
Charlie
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:23:07 -0700
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
To: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>,
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
<157A61E98909CA47A3BBC4D6E5A7737701CFA187@server3.mvenet.ad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I figured that if a bear found both the can and the hung bag near each
other, we'd see which one got the most attention.
Not exactly "The Scientific Method", but it would have ("would have"
being the key words here) vindicated my insistence that we carry a bear
can.
But as the only wildlife that was interested in our food were the (very
persistent and extremely brave) chipmunks. The can and the hung bag were
un-molested.
We DID have an awfully close call with a marmot that had found our packs
where we left them to go fishing. We had just walked up to them when the
furry critter began his approach to our packs. Another five minute and
he would have caused trouble...
M i c h a e l S a e n z
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e P l a n n i n g I n t e r i o r s
w w w . m v e - a r c h i t e c t s . c o m
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Courtway [mailto:scourtway@bpa-arch.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:12 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
mr. saenz writes:
>So, as an"experiment" we had the can sitting directly underneath the
hung
food bag. Each night we set this up in this manner. ...and not even the
slightest evidence of any bear was found the entire trip!
what exactly was logical basis of your experiment, other than providing
a
step-stool for the bear to reach your hung bag ?
s.c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
To: "Joel Dasenko" <dbcpa@empnet.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras
> Ahhhhhhhhh.......
>
> Just back from 4 days in the Golden Trout Wilderness. Had an awesome
> time!
>
> Regarding bear boxes, I didn't see any at the Cottonwood Pass
trailhead
> out of Horseshoe Meadow. The ranger station, though not requiring bear
> cans, "highly recommended" them. The guy I talked to said that there
was
> a bear that works this area that knows how to take down even the best
> counterbalanced hangs. So I rented a can. My buddy scoffed at the bear
> threat and insisted on hanging his food. Actually, since we shared the
> food load, we had some of it in the can, and some of it hung. So, as
an
> "experiment" we had the can sitting directly underneath the hung food
> bag. Each night we set this up in this manner. ...and not even the
> slightest evidence of any bear was found the entire trip!
>
> We started out from Horseshoe Meadow at around 9am Friday morning
(drove
> up from work Thursday night, a six hour drive, and slept in the back
of
> my truck) and made for Cottonwood Pass. At the pass, the PCT crosses
the
> trail down into the GTW. We took the PCT for a short hike up to
Chicken
> Spring Lake Saw no one until we pitched camp at the lake. We tried
> everything to catch fish, but we didn't even get "nibbles". Temps
ranged
> from the high 80's, with a very refreshing cold wind, to 39 at night.
> "severe clear" and BIG blue skies.
> Next morning was cross-country down to Big Whitney Meadow, then
westward
> to Rocky Basin Lakes. Saturday night camp was just below Rocky Basin
> alongside a pretty little pond (though I made it to the largest lake
of
> Rocky Basin via the "footpath" route, I became separated from my buddy
> and spent 3 hours and 7 miles before finding him camped alongside the
> "horse trail". By the time we hooked up again, neither he nor I was
> interested in hiking up to the lakes - a small adventure story in
> itself...
> The next morning we climbed the rest of the way to Rocky Basin. As it
> was very warm and the hike up to the lakes was fairly strenuous AND we
> were three days without a shower, when we got to the first lake, the
> packs were dropped, the clothes were stripped off and into the water
we
> went! Very cold water, but washing away the grime, sweat and crusty
DEET
> residue was well worth the shivers!
> The rest of the day was spent trying to catch fish at Rocky Basin
Lakes,
> but again, we were "skunked". We left the lakes in the late afternoon
to
> start our hike back.
>
> I was told by a ranger from the Lone Pine station that "every stream
and
> lake is filled with hungry fish". Hmmmmmm... could it be my fishing
> skills? ...Naw...
>
> We DID see many fish in the streams that meander through Big Whitney
> Meadow as we crossed it heading to Rocky Basin. I tried casting to
them,
> but the streams are only about 2-3 feet wide and the trout spook
easily.
> I didn't catch any (got a couple of strikes, but no takers). Also, a
> massive grasshopper hatch was underway with plague-proportions of tiny
> hoppers swarming around the trail crossing. A significant percentage
of
> these were falling into the water to be devoured by the trout waiting
in
> the water below.
> Sunday was our hike back. We camped in that big island of trees in the
> middle of Big Whitney Meadow. We wanted fresh morning legs for the
climb
> back up Cottonwood Pass.
> After pitching camp, we saw a guy fishing one of the steams, so I
walked
> out to the water to try my luck again. I tied on a dry bumble bee fly
> (looks remarkable like a black grasshopper when wet...) on my third
> cast, a 5 inch golden trout made a grab for it! That was my single
fish
> caught the entire trip. While cleaning it, I found that it was
literally
> STUFFED with small grasshoppers! It was into the frying pan to
> supplement our dinner that night! Heard coyote howls during the night
in
> the meadow, but aside from that it was dead quiet.
> The mosquitoes were active at dawn and again at dusk, but with liberal
> applications of DEET, they were manageable. I got bit a few times, but
> it was a very small price to pay for such a glorious 4-day weekend!
>
> Head properly adjusted and back in the office...
>
> M i c h a e l S a e n z
> McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
> A r c h i t e c t u r e P l a n n i n g I n t e r i o r s
> w w w . m v e - a r c h i t e c t s . c o m
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Dasenko [mailto:dbcpa@empnet.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 12:51 PM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Bear boxes on PCT in Southern Sierras
>
> >
> >
> Last year or 2, someone posted the locations of bear boxes on or near
> the PCT. Hopefully, someone can provide a list of the areas on or
near
> the PCT between Cottonwood Pass and Mono Creek where bearproof boxes
> exist. My son and I are carrying bear cannisters, but early on there
is
>
> no way all the food will fit. Thanks for any help. Joel Dasenko.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
_______________________________________________
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pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
unsubscribe or change options:
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------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:34:01 -0700
From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <078f01c46910$59bb5920$8000a8c0@STATION128>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
good experiment, I'm glad you rookies were only out there for a couple days
hahahahaha j/k.
FYI, when a bear gives a bear can attention, it sniffs it, knocks it over,
and moves on out of your camp.
s.c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
To: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>;
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
> I figured that if a bear found both the can and the hung bag near each
> other, we'd see which one got the most attention.
>
> Not exactly "The Scientific Method", but it would have ("would have"
> being the key words here) vindicated my insistence that we carry a bear
> can.
>
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:06:48 -0700
From: "Joanne Lennox" <goforth@cnw.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bear Boxes Giant Forest
To: "Ilja Friedel" <pctl@ilja.ws>
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <00c901c46915$03f4efb0$fbc49342@D1WZL841>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sorry Ilja, I thought your "load balancing reasons" referred to hanging food
rather than carrying food.
Goforth
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:20:40 -0700
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
To: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
Cc: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<157A61E98909CA47A3BBC4D6E5A7737701CFA188@server3.mvenet.ad>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yeah. We're green when it comes to bears.
For the record, in my entire backpacking career, I've NEVER had my
food/smelly stuff raided by a bear. Depending on where I'm at, I'll
either hang my stuff or simply haul it into my tent (Cpt. Bivy style!).
This was my first time carrying a can. And I advocated renting one even
though it wasn't required. If for nothing else, it provided peace of
mind while sleeping.
We weren't out for a long time or doing huge miles (longest day was
Saturday : 12-13 miles from Chicken Spring Lake to Rocky Basin Lakes via
the footpath, back down to the Tunnel Meadow trail, then back up to
Rocky Basin via the horse trail...) so packing the extra weight of the
can wasn't a problem.
I do want to get a BV200, though! I hope they pass test...
M i c h a e l S a e n z
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e P l a n n i n g I n t e r i o r s
w w w . m v e - a r c h i t e c t s . c o m
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Courtway [mailto:scourtway@bpa-arch.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:34 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
good experiment, I'm glad you rookies were only out there for a couple
days
hahahahaha j/k.
FYI, when a bear gives a bear can attention, it sniffs it, knocks it
over,
and moves on out of your camp.
s.c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Saenz" <msaenz@mve-architects.com>
To: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>;
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mike's bear experiment
> I figured that if a bear found both the can and the hung bag near each
> other, we'd see which one got the most attention.
>
> Not exactly "The Scientific Method", but it would have ("would have"
> being the key words here) vindicated my insistence that we carry a
bear
> can.
>
_______________________________________________
pct-l mailing list
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
unsubscribe or change options:
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:03:23 -0600
From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.org>
Subject: [pct-l] Re "ultralight water cache dependant route"
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000c01c4691c$d64dcc00$6501a8c0@marge20g04myym>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I agree with Steve when I saw the words:
Ultralight Water Cache DEPENDANT Route it made me think really hard. Is that
what the majority of the Hikers did this year? Did they depend on the water
caches? It never entered my thoughts that these caches would become
dependant. There is a good chance that I might be on the trail in 2005 and
if so I think that I should be able to carry enough water for my needs and
use the caches to top off maybe.
To use Steves phrase " Water for thought"
Cheers,
Marge [The Old Gal]
http://www.prothman.org/marge
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Steve Courtway
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:07 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: PCT advice
In review from what we saw this season, anyone (and their dog) who uses the
so called "ultralight water cache dependant route" is possibly depriving
someone who actually NEEDS the water of its intended use.
water for thought,
s.c.
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:52:04 -0700
From: "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] San Jac fire
To: "Irwin Reeves" <ipreeves@airenetworks.com>,
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <00f301c46923$a38041c0$51fab3d1@David>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone know if Pete Fish and his trail gorillas got out of there all
right? They are working on a section of trail on Fuller Ridge. Eric Yakel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Irwin Reeves" <ipreeves@airenetworks.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:17 AM
Subject: [pct-l] San Jac fire
The fire on the north side of Mt San Jacinto runs from
appox. the area of the drinking fountain at the bottom up to
the near the north end of Fuller Ridge. I can see
the area from my backyard. At the present (7/13/04 @
10 am) there are 2 thin lines of smoke going straight up.
NO WIND! However, this can change quickly here in the
San Gorgonio Pass area - that is why the wind mills are
here. Compared to this time yesterday the fire seems to
have laid down. But there are still helicopters working.
Irwin Reeves (Crash)
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------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:00:46 -0700
From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] "ultralight water cache dependant route"
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <002701c46924$da5f6300$6401a8c0@BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I, too, agree with Steve and Marge.
Ultra-light means more, not less, responsibility for one's own welfare.
Water caches are there for shortages and emergencies. They are not meant to
be dependable, free supply stations along the route.
Each of us is responsible for estimating and carrying enough food, water,
and other supplies to get from one supply point to the next. The trail
angels who labor to maintain these caches do so in an effort to protect
lives and to cover our butts in case we under-estimate our needs or the
regular water sources are unexpectedly dry. Remember, those jugs weigh 8.3
pounds per gallon and have to be hauled to most caches on the backs of the
trail angel or their horses. Oh yes, that trail angel also pays for the
water, the gas to get his or her vehicle closeby, and takes time from their
life to provide this service. Did I mention that they don't charge for that?
In 2002, there was a wacko who kept destroying the cache that Amigo and his
family so carefully tended out on the Hat Creek Rim. We sat around at Old
Station and decided that the trail Gods should arrange to have him caught in
the act by 6 thirsty through-hikers. Why bother the local Sheriff? I can
still remember pulling into one cache in section F only to find it as empty
as my own water bottles. By carefully emptying the residue from a dozen
2-1/2 gallon carboys, my partner and I were able to recover one liter of
very warm water, but it was desperately needed. We had each gone through 4
liters from our packs in a single desert day.
Wandering Bob
------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:01:49 -0700
From: "Don Line" <DON@roel.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] San Jac fire
To: <ipreeves@airenetworks.com>, <eyakel@earthlink.net>,
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <s0f3f968.038@mail.roel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
i was working there on Saturday. They (all of the trail gorillas) were
told to evacuate on Monday. Pete told me that he was the one who called
911 to report the fire. The fuller ridge trailhead may be in the fire's
path.
>>> "Eric Yakel" <eyakel@earthlink.net> 7/13/2004 2:52:04 PM >>>
Does anyone know if Pete Fish and his trail gorillas got out of there
all
right? They are working on a section of trail on Fuller Ridge. Eric
Yakel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Irwin Reeves" <ipreeves@airenetworks.com>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:17 AM
Subject: [pct-l] San Jac fire
The fire on the north side of Mt San Jacinto runs from
appox. the area of the drinking fountain at the bottom up to
the near the north end of Fuller Ridge. I can see
the area from my backyard. At the present (7/13/04 @
10 am) there are 2 thin lines of smoke going straight up.
NO WIND! However, this can change quickly here in the
San Gorgonio Pass area - that is why the wind mills are
here. Compared to this time yesterday the fire seems to
have laid down. But there are still helicopters working.
Irwin Reeves (Crash)
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_________________________________________________
Scanned on 13 Jul 2004 21:52:34
Scanning by http://erado.com
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:24:31 -0700
From: Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Verbenia Fire -- Snow Creek x Hwy 111, San
Jacinto Area
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040713222431.GB13180@isi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
There's been less coverage of this fire online than I
expected. Summary: The PCT is closed from Fuller Ridge to I-10, and
the fire has likely burned over the trail.
For this fire, the National Fire News Wireland Fire Update Web
site (http://www.nifc.gov/fireinfo/nfn.html) points to the California
Dept. of Forestry and Fire Protection's CDF Major Incidents website.
The CDF Major Incidents web page has't been update to include the
Verbenia fire, but if you follow the "Fire Information Phone Numbers"
link, you should see the following reference:
Verbenia Fire
CDF Riverside Unit/Riverside County Fire/US Forest Service
909-940-6985
Updated: 7/13/2004 9:02:22 AM
I called this number and talked to a firefighter to ask about
whether the Verbenia Fire affected the PCT. This particular
firefighter wasn't familiar with the PCT. I wanted to have a
definitive reference on hand before continuing the conversation, so I
hung up and: 1) booted my laptop into Windows, 2) downloaded and
installed today's Critical Windows updates, 3) rebooted into Windows,
and 4) started Topo! to pull up a topo of the area.
I called back and described the path of the trail. The firefighter
confirmed that this area was within the fire operations zone. I asked
if someone would please post a fire area map on the Web site.
Next, I called the San Jacinto Ranger District of the San
Bernardina National Forest.
San Jacinto Ranger District
54270 Pinecrest
Idyllwild, CA 92549
(909) 382-2921 (voice)
Here I got more definitive information. The PCT is closed from
Fuller Ridge Trail to Snow Creek. The Black Rock and Boulder Basin
campgrounds are closed.
Here are some news stories on this fire:
http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2268413,00.html
http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/9981558p-10903154c.html
http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/local/20040713013700.shtml
Craig Milo Rogers
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:50:15 -0700
From: Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Hughes Fire ("Pine Incident")
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040713225015.GC13180@isi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I called the Angeles National Forest Supervisors Office,
626-574-5200. The Lake Hughes ("Pine Incident") fire is being handled
by Los Angeles County, 323-881-2413. At 1800 PDT, the Angeles
National Forest will take over management of the fire.
Here's what I was told: Liebre Mtn. Truck Trail is closed from
Pine Canyon Road (Lake Hughes) to Forest Rd. 8N04. The Old Ridge Road
(to the west of the PCT) is also closed. Although not specifically
mentioned in the Forest Service press release, it should be understood
that the PCT is closed in this area, per the forest service
representative (once I told her where the PCT ran in the area).
My interpretation: If there are any late northbound hikers,
Agua Dulce would be a good place to stop for a while. :-) SOBO hikers,
it should be OK to cross the Antelope Valley (modulo the heat!), but
please don't hike south of hwy 138.
Craig "Computer" Rogers
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:15:11 -0700
From: Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@isi.edu>
Subject: [pct-l] Pine Fire PCT Closure (Lake Hughes, CA)
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040714021511.GD13180@isi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Here's what I was told: Liebre Mtn. Truck Trail is closed from
...
The official press release has appeared on the Angeles
National Forest Web site. I'm pleased to see that the Forest Service
included the PCT in the release (of course, I'm not pleased that the
PCT needed to be closed, don't get me wrong about that).
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/angeles/news/2004/news-2004-07-13-pine-fire-road-closure.shtml
The eastern PCT closure is Lake Hughes Road, which runs
through Elizabeth Lake Canyon from Lake Hughes to Castaic Lake.
Here's a Web page on the road. ;-)
http://www.scvresources.com/general/lake_hughes_road.htm
Craig "Computer" Rogers
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:32:12 -0700
From: Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Verbenia Fire (San Jct Fire)
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040714023212.GE13180@isi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Here's the first map I've seen of the fire, in a story
datelined today at noon:
http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_blaze13.5782f.html
More news coverage:
http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories2004/local/20040713013700.shtml
http://www.thedesertsun.com/updates/index.shtml#20040713155111
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2035029&nav=9qrxOkqv
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2035029&nav=9ptCOkqt
Craig "Computer" Rogers
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:39:55 -0700
From: Craig Milo Rogers <rogers@isi.edu>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Verbenia Fire (San Jct Fire)
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040714023955.GF13180@isi.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 04.07.13, Craig Milo Rogers wrote:
> More news coverage:
>
> http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2035029&nav=9qrxOkqv
> http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2035029&nav=9ptCOkqt
Hmmm... those two URLs are the same story. Try the following
URL for a little additional coverage.
http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=2035035&nav=9ptCOkr4
Craig "Computer" Rogers
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 20:09:43 -0700
From: "Joe Percival" <djpercival@cox.net>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Re "ultralight water cache dependant route"
To: "'Marge Prothman'" <marge@prothman.org>, "'Pct-L'"
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <20040714030946.NFOH29075.fed1rmmtao04.cox.net@LT2>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I live in the San Diego area. I'm planning on an 05 PCT. I'm planning on
carrying 6 to 8 L of water for most stretches of the SO Cal portion of the
trail (trading water for ice axe and bear canister for the JMT later). On 9
mile (3 hr) 1700 ft training hikes my water consumption goes from 2 L
starting at 5:15 AM to 3L starting at 6 AM. It is often Hot and Dry down
here. I've hiked for several hours with no water (ooops) but would rather
carry the weight than the worry.
joe
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Marge Prothman
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 2:03 PM
To: Pct-L
Subject: [pct-l] Re "ultralight water cache dependant route"
I agree with Steve when I saw the words:
Ultralight Water Cache DEPENDANT Route it made me think really hard. Is that
what the majority of the Hikers did this year? Did they depend on the water
caches? It never entered my thoughts that these caches would become
dependant. There is a good chance that I might be on the trail in 2005 and
if so I think that I should be able to carry enough water for my needs and
use the caches to top off maybe.
To use Steves phrase " Water for thought"
Cheers,
Marge [The Old Gal]
http://www.prothman.org/marge
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Steve Courtway
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 1:07 PM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: PCT advice
In review from what we saw this season, anyone (and their dog) who uses the
so called "ultralight water cache dependant route" is possibly depriving
someone who actually NEEDS the water of its intended use.
water for thought,
s.c.
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------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:34:55 -0700
From: Carl Siechert <carlito@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] California Section P condition report
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <8fd9157d040713223454bf9776@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
An imposter. I just checked here at the nursing home, and everyone is
present and accounted for.
> blazing fast to Seiad. One of the three was said to be, and I quote: "An
> old guy with a Kelty external frame pack."
>
> The Class of '77 lives -- or was just a wannabe trying to impersonate the
> immortals?
------------------------------
Message: 30
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 05:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan and Nina <dnpct06@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Good Journal Entry
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20040714124944.13142.qmail@web53409.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Four years ago, Karen "Nocona" Borski Somers had to
get off the trail at Glen Pass due to pulmonary edema,
and she spent the next four years dreaming of going
back and finishing the trail.
She's back out there this year, and I just posted her
Glen Pass journal entry for 2004. Kind of cool to read
about when she gets to the "spot" where she and Bald
Eagle had to turn back four years ago.
http://www.trailjournals.com/nocona2/
Waterfall
=====
My Book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0881505986/qid=1085490127/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-4279170-1300733?v=glance&s=books
Sheltowee's Book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0972903801/qid=1085490159/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-4279170-1300733?v=glance&s=books
Sheltowee's Web Site: http://www.sheltoweehikes.com
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers!
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------------------------------
Message: 31
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:27:46 +0000
From: yuppatt@att.net
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID:
<071420041627.4415.40F55F01000C2EA10000113F21602810609B9B0E9F9F9A97@att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain
I ' m goiung north since a May 5 start at the border . I am in Merced so as to drop my girlfriend off to fly back to CT . At Rush Creek , just south of Donohue Pass we had an habituated bear and her cub come into camp . Another party the next morning told me they had the same that night camped nearby . Big Mom and cub ; thanks to Crow aqnd Sherpa and a southbound JMT friend - Dan bauer , we all eventuall drove her off . I now have a canister ; C and Sherpa had just got one the day before as I believe this was even their third exp . Tahnks to all trail angels and keep on trekking PCT thru hikers - Rafter Jack / AKA : Bushwhacking Jack , I hear !
------------------------------
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End of pct-l Digest, Vol 15, Issue 16
*************************************