[pct-l] Illegal Contacts

[msaenz at mve-architects.com (Mike Saenz)]

What I've been reading in the papers, is that here are basically two "types" of illegal border crossings:
1) The desperate trying to better the lives of themselves and/or their family. And..
2) Drug/immigrant smugglers

The first type will most likely leave PCT hikers alone, unless they are so desperate that they feel they need to hold you up for you gear. But how desperate can you get within 20 miles of the border?

The second type will most likely be the most dangerous to cross.

Have you seen that movie "Born in East LA"? there was a funny scene where a wedding reception called "immigra" on themselves because it got them a free ride back to Mexico (including a meal!). If an illegal immigrant gets caught, they simply get deported back to the border to try at it again.

But if you run into someone who's illegal presence and/or activities will buy them more than just a deportation, then they'd more likely try to "get rid of witnesses", if you get my meaning. I think there's currently a criminal case going on right now about some drug smugglers who brutally killed (execution style) a couple of BP many years ago. This sort of "illegal" is what you'd want to stay clear of. And if I was that kind of criminal, I'd stay as far away from heavily traveled trails. That would be the PCT.

But really, if you started your hike in the morning at the terminus, you could be in Morena by dinner time! Surrounded by campers, tourists, the village...just the sort of environment criminals would avoid. Then, day two could find you in Mt. Laguna, or at least near Cibbets Flat, 40 miles north of the border. If illegal smugglers got at least as far as I-8, it wouldn't make sense to head up the PCT. And if you get to, say, Pioneer mail, then you wouldn't come across any criminal types on the PCT (at least they'd most likely be of the US Citizen variety).

Though I don't condone illegal immigration, I at least can be sympathetic to their situation, and I admire their determination to better themselves! If I came across one or two or more, I'd be more inclined to share water and a cliff bar with them than blow a whistle.

So my point is (there is one, really!), it would take a special kind of paranoia to feel the need to pack the extra weight of a handgun and ammo.

One of the guys I hike with carries a 60's era marine K-Bar! You could pry a fender off a car with that thing! And why? "Just in case..." he says.

*sheesh* 

I'll carry an additional "Oilcan"! if some desperado confronts me, I'll offer him a beer.
Like "Shrek" said" "Can't we settle this over a pint?" (gotta say this with a Scottish accent!)

...of course that was just before a big fight scene. Can you train a Llama or goat to fight like Shrek's donkey?




M i c h a e l   S a e n z
McLarand Vasquez Emsiek & Partners, Inc.
A r c h i t e c t u r e    P l a n n i n g    I n t e r i o r s
w  w  w  .  m  v  e  -  a  r  c  h  i  t  e  c  t  s  .  c  o  m

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Rebecca Emily Selling [mailto:res46@cornell.edu] 
Sent:	Friday, April 02, 2004 12:30 PM
To:	Eric Yakel
Cc:	pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject:	Re: [pct-l] Illegal Contacts

      The prospect of PCT hikers carrying firearms as a defense, is both
discouraging and frightening.  There are a huge amount of people in
this country who carry or own firearms "just for defense."   A scary
number of tragic accident result from people owning these firearms. 
If you own a gun, there is the temptation to use the gun.  I'm sure,
as a trained police officer, there is less of a temptation to use a
weapon, due to officer training on proper use and operation of a
firearm.  Never the less, if you carry a gun you can use the gun,
and if you use the gun, you can kill people.  It's as simple as
that.
       There is a vibe on this list, painting a portrait of illegal aliens
as bad people, out to get hikers.  In general, they are people just
like us, trying to get through life, give their kids more than they
have, find a job, and just live.   I'm not saying illegal
immigration is a good idea, generally things that are illegal are
not good ideas.   But if we think of illegal aliens as inherently
bad and threatening, we are much more likely to run into trouble
with them.  I'm not saying don't be on your guard, it is alway
important to be cognizant of your surroudings and the people in
those surrounding, especially in unfamiliar terrain.  But I firmly
believe in giving people the benifit of the doubt, unless they
demonstrate that they are intending malicious actions.
     I grew up in Philadelphia, living in the city from ages 0-18.  I
lived in an ok part of town, and went to school in a pretty rough
part of town.  Shooting and muggings were not uncommon in the
neighborhood where I went to school.  Several friend got mugged, or
had things stolen.  On several occasions there were bullet holes in
the windown of my classrooms, yet I never carried a gun.  I've never
even held a gun.  Why?  Because as soon as a gun is introduced into a
situation, the situation become highly volatile.  People panic, and
when people panic, mistakes happen.  It is an infinitely better idea
to just give somone your wallet, or gear, or whatever, than to risk
bodily harm to either yourself or them.  Shooting someone, or even
threatening their life, because they said "give me your wallet," is
simply not acceptable.
        There are plenty of other ways to intimidate, avoid, or defend
youself from trouble, if the need arises.  Pepper spray was
suggested as an alternative, which is an excellent idea.  There
are also plenty of psychological tactics to avoid mailicious
encounters.  Talk to yourself, it will friek people out and they
won't want to confront you.
         Those who work in emergency services tend to have a somewhat
skewed vision of how often emergencies like these actually occur.
 I work in emergency medicine, and it is very easy to fall into
the trap of thinking that major medical emergencies are common in
every day life.  This isn't true.  Both types of emergencies do
happen, medical and criminal, they are a problem that need to be
dealt with, but in the grand scheme of things, they are few and
far between.
    I'm sure many people won't agree with everything I've said in this
e-mail, and that's fine.  The world would be boring if we all agreed. 
But the idea of people carrying guns for defense on the PCT touched a
nerve, so I felt like I should say what I believe.  Back to planning
resupply and my bounce box....... :-)
Becky



> After working in Law Enforcement for the past 16 years and knowing several
> people who work the Border Patrol in the Campo area, I can say this is not
> HIGHLY unusual.  I was informed that about 10 groups of hikers and several
> motorists a year are robbed in this area every year.  I hate to do it, but
> I might be carrying my small off-duty revolver when I thru hike the trail
> in 2005.  I think I might carry it till I get to my house at mile 125.  I
> won't charge for security of anyone who wants to start with me also...
> Mountain Goat has already signed up.
>       Just curious.....   What do you folks think of this idea.  Have I
> labeled myself to much of a redneck?
>                                   Eric Yakel
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