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[pct-l] RE: Ice Axe Training
- Subject: [pct-l] RE: Ice Axe Training
- From: jcoyle at sanjuan.edu (John Coyle)
- Date: Mon Nov 10 14:26:41 2003
The recent posts about ice axe training reminded me of an incident that
happened to me in the seventies while working on the trail crew for Grand
Teton Nat'l Park. A friend, who had some climbing experience, convinced me,
who had no climbing experience, to climb the middle Teton. It was mostly a
scramble with a few technical sections. He gave me about two minutes of ice
axe instruction and away we went. On the way down I slipped on a snowfield,
tried unsuccessfully to self-arrest with the ice axe, and slide down about
100 yards on my back, narrowly missing some six foot boulders, and finally
stopping in some scree. On the way down I lost my grip on the ice axe,
which was attached to my wrist with a strap. It started flailing around
wildly and hit me on top of the head with the wide sharp part. My friend,
who had been an army medic, bandaged my head with his undershirt, and we
hiked six miles out, got in the car, drove to a medical clinic in Jackson
where I required six stitches. I'm lucky the axe didn't penetrate my thick
Irish skull. Perhaps if I had gotten proper training and practiced more I
could have stopped--it's hard to say.
The moral of the story is learn to use an ice axe properly, practice with
it, but don't count on it stopping you in all situations.
John Coyle -----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net]
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 10:00 AM
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: pct-l Digest, Vol 7, Issue 13
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Training in So. Cal. (Lonetrail@aol.com)
2. RE: The first one to Canada loses (John Brennan)
3. RE: LNT (John Brennan)
4. Re: Training in So. Cal. (AsABat)
5. Re: RE: LNT (Slyatpct@aol.com)
6. RE: RE: digital cameras on the PCT 04 (Richard Hare)
7. Re: Training in So. Cal. (Christine Kudija)
8. Re: Treating water (Hiker)
9. Re: Digital Cameras (Campy)
10. Re: Treating water (Glory Cummings)
11. Re: Digital Cameras (Paul Magnanti)
12. re: Rocket Girl (Paul Magnanti)
13. Re: Training in So. Cal. (Lonetrail@aol.com)
14. wildfire concern for 2004 (ROLLAND SANDERS)
15. Re: Treating water (CMountainDave@aol.com)
16. Re: Seirra runs (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
17. Re: wildfire concern for 2004 (AsABat)
18. Re: Training in So. Cal. (NlsScott@aol.com)
19. Re: Seirra runs (Brick Robbins)
20. PCT Guidebook (thomas conover)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:38:10 EST
From: Lonetrail@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Training in So. Cal.
To: NlsScott@aol.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <19f.1ccfb4c1.2cdfe392@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
I don't know
I attended the WTC in S. Ca when I moved here from back east. I was a novice
backpacker then but I did attended a course in BP with the Sierra Club back
east.
I felt the course back east was more advanced in Backpacking Lite. The
reason
I wanted to go through WTC was to gain experience in higher elevation in the
mountains on the West coast.
Although it was somewhat beneficial I found that most of the volunteers were
limited in actual experience except as week end warriors. The idea of
backpacking Lite was not promoted in the classes. In fact there seem to be a
tie with
REI to purchase their Bombproof Heavy Equipment by offering a discount
coupon.
It was estimated that the average purchase at REI per student was $750.00.
I gained most of my experience and knowledge by reading the Post on our
wonderful pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net. I have never been merchandised to
purchase
any equipment. My experience of the Post Listing is unsurpassable to
anything
I witness or read. Keep Posting, and thank you all. Save your $200.00
Lonetrail
>
> Dear folks,
> In some of the introductions, I've noticed a few:"I don't have much
> backpacking experience...". Well if you live in Southern California, I
can
> recommend a great course that is put on by the Sierra Club called the
> Wilderness
> Travel Course. It is a ten week classroom and several field experiences.
> They
> spend a weekend at Joshua Tree doing navigation and a little rock
> scrambling.
> The highlight of the course is a snowcamping weekend in the Sierras. It
is
>
> run all by volunteers and only costs $200.
> The course starts in early January and ends in March. It would be a
> great way to prepare yourself for more ambitious hiking. Here is a link:
> Wilderness Travel Course Home Page
> Scott Nelson
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:12:30 -0700
From: "John Brennan" <john@frozenpoodle.com>
Subject: [pct-l] RE: The first one to Canada loses
To: "'PCT List'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000001c3a6f5$6ff2d750$6501a8c0@dell8200>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I saw Rocketgirl south of Mojave (when we were contemplating some rank
water) then her name of the roof of the Stehekin bus (but with no date).
Anyone get a finish date for her? Or a start date for that matter?
<snip> we can't forget Rocketgirl, who completed her hike in only 74 days in
2002. She was super
>cool.
John B., the hiker formerly known as Cupcake
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:12:30 -0700
From: "John Brennan" <john@frozenpoodle.com>
Subject: [pct-l] RE: LNT
To: "'PCT List'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000501c3a6f5$73109210$6501a8c0@dell8200>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I got interested in NOLS and got a catalog. The same catalog that had LNT
ideals laid out showed a group a NOLS horses grazing around the edge of an
alpine lake! I called them and the first person I talked to seemed baffled
by my question and referred me to 'the' LNT guy. He said, roughly quoting,
Yeah, well, backpacking isn't really leave no trace when you have the cars,
shuttles, and horses, plus all the equipment and people to pack food into
the back country. End of my interest in NOLS.
The LNT guidelines are useful and instructive when used with a little common
sense and an eye for the big picture.
John B., the hiker formerly known as Cupcake
In a message dated 11/9/2003 11:08:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, Sly writes:
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't LNT developed by NOLS? The same group
>that brings hundreds of hikers into the Wind River Range every year. This
>appears self defeating if you ask me.
>Sly
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:29:39 -0800
From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Training in So. Cal.
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000801c3a6f7$d15a6100$1501010a@sd.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> I attended the WTC in S. Ca ...
> Although it was somewhat beneficial I found that most of the volunteers
were
> limited in actual experience except as week end warriors. The idea of
> backpacking Lite was not promoted in the classes.
I suppose that with these courses, as with everything, YMMV. I know that GVP
has spoken at at least one WBC course in San Diego County, and the North San
Diego County WBC page http://members.cox.net/wbc2003/index.htm includes the
following in their schedule:
"* Lightweight Backpacking: How to travel ultra-light. No, not by whining
about how heavy your pack is until your partners agree to take some of your
stuff for you (though this can work). See how much things weigh, and how
fifty 8-ounce things can add up to a lot of extra weight. Tricks for shaving
your pack weight down to a minimum, while still packing safely."
While I have never attended this course, I think some kind of course is
worthwhile for those who have never backpacked. This is one option, and
there are many others. The Boy Scouts in San Diego offer a good backpack
course for Scout leaders as well, which includes a winter trip to San
Jacinto and rock climbing.
AsABat
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:33:49 EST
From: Slyatpct@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] RE: LNT
To: john@frozenpoodle.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <9f.4012799f.2cdff09d@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 11/9/2003 2:19:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
john@frozenpoodle.com writes:
> The LNT guidelines are useful and instructive when used with a little
> common
> sense and an eye for the big picture.
>
Yeah, as a single backpacker or in small independant groups that don't
profit
off the national forests and parks. I have a similar gripe with the
Appalachian Mountain Club and commercial outfitters/horsepackers.
Sometimes I feel like a hamburg stand in the middle of a wilderness. I
wonder if that would fly? haha
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 20:15:00 -0000
From: "Richard Hare" <richard@hare22.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [pct-l] RE: digital cameras on the PCT 04
To: "'PCT List'" <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJFHGDBJOLFPDFPKNGEOFDBAA.richard@hare22.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Neat mushroom photos!
Here's one I took last week,
http://www.richardhare.net/photos/toadstool.jpg
I'm using the casio exilim, really neat and light, think it's about 4 oz
Great web site too!
Rik
> ->Macro capabilities-What a digital lacks in capturing great vistas (at
> least at 3.1 megapixels), they make up for when you are inches away from
> your subject. I'm still amazed at my own photos of mushrooms:
> www.cupcakewalk.com/journal/september.html#mushrooms.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:26:43 -0800
From: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Training in So. Cal.
To: <Lonetrail@aol.com>, <NlsScott@aol.com>,
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <003501c3a6ff$ca639120$0200000a@kudijaemachine>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In 1976 I took the Sierra Club's L.A. Chapter "BMTC", the "Basic
Mountaineering Training Course" which included all the aspects of the
current "WTC". The BEST PART of the course, the absolute BEST, for me, was
the day spent doing self-arrest drills (climb the snowslope, start sliding
down either feet-first, headfirst, belly down, belly up, etc at the
instructor's direction, then arresting when instructor yells
"ARREST!!!!!!"), and the follow-up field trip snow-camping in the Palisades,
where we did more snow travel & ice axe practice. It's a great class for
the opportunity for supervised experience - then get your ultralight
backpacking advice on line, here on the pct-list or backpacking-lite.
Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija
"Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, you can. Boldness has a genius,
magic and power to it."
Goethe
----- Original Message -----
From: <Lonetrail@aol.com>
To: <NlsScott@aol.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Training in So. Cal.
>
>
> I don't know
>
> I attended the WTC in S. Ca when I moved here from back east. I was a
novice
> backpacker then but I did attended a course in BP with the Sierra Club
back
> east.
> I felt the course back east was more advanced in Backpacking Lite. The
reason
> I wanted to go through WTC was to gain experience in higher elevation in
the
> mountains on the West coast.
>
> Although it was somewhat beneficial I found that most of the volunteers
were
> limited in actual experience except as week end warriors. The idea of
> backpacking Lite was not promoted in the classes. In fact there seem to be
a tie with
> REI to purchase their Bombproof Heavy Equipment by offering a discount
coupon.
> It was estimated that the average purchase at REI per student was $750.00.
>
> I gained most of my experience and knowledge by reading the Post on our
> wonderful pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net. I have never been merchandised to
purchase
> any equipment. My experience of the Post Listing is unsurpassable to
anything
> I witness or read. Keep Posting, and thank you all. Save your $200.00
>
> Lonetrail
>
>
> >
> > Dear folks,
> > In some of the introductions, I've noticed a few:"I don't have much
> > backpacking experience...". Well if you live in Southern California, I
can
> > recommend a great course that is put on by the Sierra Club called the
> > Wilderness
> > Travel Course. It is a ten week classroom and several field
experiences.
> > They
> > spend a weekend at Joshua Tree doing navigation and a little rock
> > scrambling.
> > The highlight of the course is a snowcamping weekend in the Sierras.
It is
> >
> > run all by volunteers and only costs $200.
> > The course starts in early January and ends in March. It would be a
> > great way to prepare yourself for more ambitious hiking. Here is a
link:
> > Wilderness Travel Course Home Page
> > Scott Nelson
> > _______________________________________________
> > pct-l mailing list
> > pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > unsubscribe or change options:
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> pct-l mailing list
> pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> unsubscribe or change options:
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:22:45 -0800
From: Hiker <hiker@godlikebuthumble.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Treating water
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20031109111808.06bfb250@fastpack.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 07:59 AM 11/9/03, conniedavis@earthlink.net wrote:
>Drinking untreated water is like many of the other decisions we make on
>the trail, it's a calculated risk, and worth weighing the potential
>consequences.
There is a real risk of drive by shootings, so whenever I go out on the
street I always make sure wear my bullet proof vest. I know it is heavy and
expensive, and it take time to put it on every day, but I read about people
being killed in drive by shootings in South Central all the time and that
really worries me. People keep telling me that there are no drive-bys here
in Beverly Hills, but......
TFIC
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:48:16 -0800
From: Campy <campydog@verizon.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Re: Digital Cameras
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net, Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Cc: Campy <campydog@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0AE30BBD-12F6-11D8-B74D-0003930ECFD8@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Ref: From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] re: digital cameras
I saw lots of your pictures, and they are good! There's something which
your gallery pages prove, based on the image viewing counters. People
like the pictures with people in them and look at these more often!
'Course I don't know how long this idea will work if we make every
picture with a person standing in it, when all we really want to show is
the beautiful mountain scene.
Keep up the good digital photography...
==^=================
Campy
Central California Trail Coordinator
"Home of the High Sierra Trail Gorillas"
Pacific Crest Trail Association
Bishop CA Tel.: 760-872-2338
Email: tap "Reply"
See photos from our recent High Sierra trail project:
http://www.trailprojects.com/dif_log030920.html
"Time spent doing trail work shall not be deducted from your life!"
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:38:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Glory Cummings <glory593@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Treating water
To: pct-l@backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20031109213810.73156.qmail@web20304.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
way to go, hiker. grin.
Hiker <hiker@godlikebuthumble.com> wrote:At 07:59 AM 11/9/03,
conniedavis@earthlink.net wrote:
>Drinking untreated water is like many of the other decisions we make on
>the trail, it's a calculated risk, and worth weighing the potential
>consequences.
There is a real risk of drive by shootings, so whenever I go out on the
street I always make sure wear my bullet proof vest. I know it is heavy and
expensive, and it take time to put it on every day, but I read about people
being killed in drive by shootings in South Central all the time and that
really worries me. People keep telling me that there are no drive-bys here
in Beverly Hills, but......
TFIC
_______________________________________________
pct-l mailing list
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
unsubscribe or change options:
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:39:59 -0800 (PST)
From: David O <o123david@yahoo.com>
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Subject: [pct-l] Re: Numbness
X-BeenThere: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
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>I've experience the same problem. In my case the tensor fasciae latae on
>the side of my left leg starts going numb. I'm sure it's caused by my
>hip belt...
>I'm going to try to find a softer hip belt for next summer.
I used to have the same problem.
The solution for me has been to use a hip belt that has NO padding in the
area that causes the numbness. I suppose this permits the bone to protect
the
sensitive area. --David
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:37:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Re: Digital Cameras
To: Campy <campydog@verizon.net>, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Cc: Campy <campydog@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <20031109233756.97219.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> like the pictures with people in them and look at
>>> these more often!
Thanks for the kind words.
I did also noticed that the ones with my female
friends in them have the highest number overall! :-)
=====
************************************************************
The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a
portion of the rainbow I have clutched
--Thoreau
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 15:49:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] re: Rocket Girl
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20031109234935.98559.qmail@web13904.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Wall may have hiked the PCT in 83 days in 2003, but
>>we can't forget
>>Rocketgirl, who completed her hike in only 74 days
>>in 2002. She was super cool.
Yeah..but she only hiked at night (for the most part).
Hard girl to meet. I met saw her one time. Went by
very quickly as her name implies...
=====
************************************************************
The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a
portion of the rainbow I have clutched
--Thoreau
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 18:54:24 EST
From: Lonetrail@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Training in So. Cal.
To: cmkudija@earthlink.net, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net,
AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net
Message-ID: <1d3.14129afc.2ce02db0@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Christine
There were fun moments but to pay $200.00 to slide down on your
belly.Tic,Tic. Let see you went through BMTC in 1976 . BMTC was a shoot off
Washington
Mountaineering Cub I believe you used their third edition as a study guide.
After
a problem with insurance coverage about 10 years ago the Sierra Club
eliminated the use of the ice axe for students, only the instructor was
allowed to
demonstrate there use. It was this way when I went through WTC.This change
resulted in many of the experience instructors to leave. Our group back East
had
White Water kayaks which we had to donate to AYH because of the change of
insurance coverage.
I only made my post not to criticize S. CA. WTC but to let the other 99
percent of our viewers to know there are other means to gain knowledge. You
are
absolutely right on getting backpacking lite knowledge on line through our
pct-list ..
Lonetrail
> In 1976 I took the Sierra Club's L.A. Chapter "BMTC", the "Basic
> Mountaineering Training Course" which included all the aspects of the
> current "WTC". The BEST PART of the course, the absolute BEST, for me,
was
> the day spent doing self-arrest drills (climb the snowslope, start sliding
> down either feet-first, headfirst, belly down, belly up, etc at the
> instructor's direction, then arresting when instructor yells
> "ARREST!!!!!!"), and the follow-up field trip snow-camping in the
Palisades,
> where we did more snow travel & ice axe practice. It's a great class for
> the opportunity for supervised experience - then get your ultralight
> backpacking advice on line, here on the pct-list or backpacking-lite.
>
> Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija
>
> "Whatever you can do, or dream you can do, you can. Boldness has a
genius,
> magic and power to it."
> Goethe
>
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:20:07 +0000
From: "ROLLAND SANDERS" <bwanarol@hotmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] wildfire concern for 2004
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <BAY2-F45IzQtO9vXLsd000149ab@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
in regards to the northbound pack starting out in and around april 2004, how
(and to what extent) will this year's wildfires affect the trail in south
cali? of course no one can be definite, but what do y'all reckon?
specifically, should a thru-hike be postponed for another time? is it that
bad? any & all thoughts welcome.
_________________________________________________________________
>From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 21:56:26 EST
From: CMountainDave@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Treating water
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <7e.412a9206.2ce0585a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 11/9/03 8:08:30 AM, conniedavis@earthlink.net writes:
<< Drinking untreated water is like many of the other decisions we make on
the trail, it's a calculated risk, and worth weighing the potential
consequences. >>
It boils down to whether or not you believe the medical experts when they
say
most people exposed to giardia cysts not only show no symptoms, but actually
become immune. Some people exposed become ill, and never really recover.
They
become carriers of giardia and are suspected of being the ones who transmit
the parasite to others via compromised hygiene and social contact. Some of
these
people become carriers and so on.
A very small minority become violently ill
I have no doubt that giardia is present in nearly all water sources. But
the concentration is so low that non immune people would have to drink very
large quantities of water to reach the level of exposure necessary to make
giardia
possible
The mystery, of course is that, given the same level of exposure, some
people get ill while a vast majority don't. But then some people have an
allergic
reaction to bees and peanuts while most don't
If some people get ill from eating peanuts, does it necessarily follow
that
I should stop eating peanuts, just to be on the safe side, even though I
have
eaten them in the past with no ill effect? Or if some people die from bee
stings that I should be deathly afraid of bees?
Personally I believe immunity comes to those who are exposed to low level
concentrations of giardia such as found in mountain creeks. I believe those
who
are first exposed to large concentrations, such as in swimming pools or day
care center, can become ill in varying degree due to varying immune systems.
>From this group comes the carriers who are likely to have numerous future
outbreaks, and periods of dormancy during which the disease is communicable
to the
non immune. My understanding is that to become a carrier you must first
become
ill.
Or it may be that those never exposed at all to giardia through early life
are more prone to developing giardia from medium levels when exposed as
adults
There are much higher concentrations of giardia in the drinking water of
San Francisco than found in Sierran lakes and creeks. Why are they not
advised
to treat all water and why is there no giardia epidemic there?
So you can explain my lack of getting giardia after drinking untreated
wilderness water for fifty years to just plain luck. I prefer to think that
those
medical people are right and that I am one of the immune ones. So why bother
with an easily compromised filter. I just chlorinate the water on that rare
occasion when cows or elk are sharing or have recently shared the same
immediate
water source. I also drink smart, such as taking water from the uphill side
of
the trail, because I have heard that horse doo doo rolls down hill. Well,
duh!
So are you immune to or a potential victim of giardia? Might as well ask
me how you will react to a yellow jacket sting or to eating peanut butter.
Beats the hell out of me
As for trying to imply that those who don't treat their water are
spreading
the disease, there can be only one enforceable solution: Force everybody to
show a blood test showing they are giardia free before getting a wilderness
permit. You know the old saying, you can lead an old hiker to water, but you
can't make him treat it. Of course you could just make a regulation
requiring
backpackers to carry a filter anyway ala you know what
And what do you propose to do with the bona fide giardia carriers who can
spread the cysts no matter what they do with their water? Ban them entry?
Set
aside a "lepers" wilderness just for them?
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:01:50 EST
From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Seirra runs
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <1dc.14047a1b.2ce0599e@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 11/7/2003 9:56:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,
yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
>>>Maybe a water source prior to KM?<<<
I nominate Golden Oak Springs, which, when I went through this year, was
full
of all manner dead critters ( mostly insect ) or, the perhaps-not-so-lovely
Robin Bird Springs, which had a lid that fit loosely enough for rodent
sized
entry. ( Not to mention the stinging nettles that I stupidly rubbed
against. )
No Way
Ray E
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:20:29 -0800
From: "AsABat" <AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] wildfire concern for 2004
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <023601c3a739$991a06a0$1501010a@sd.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> how (and to what extent) will this year's wildfires affect the trail in
south cali?
Actually, last year's fires had a greater impact on the PCT that this
year's. The Cedar fire in San Diego County burned very little of the trail,
as the PCT in that area burned in LAST year's Pines Fire. See
http://www.4jeffrey.net/hike/pct/fire . I'll have maps of the Cedar fire
there soon (Thanks, Matt.), and plan to check it out in person this week.
The Old fire in the San Bernardino Mountains did have some impact on the
PCT. Donna posted a note from Pete two days ago that about 51 miles of PCT
is closed. There's a suggestion that it may be long term because of a bridge
out, but things do change.
Either way, if this was my year to hike, I would not let this stop me from
enjoying my trip.
AsABat
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 22:28:32 EST
From: NlsScott@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Training in So. Cal.
To: cmkudija@earthlink.net, Lonetrail@aol.com,
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <c8.3fe9a587.2ce05fe0@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Dear Christine and Lonetrail:
I must confess that I am a volunteer staff member of the Wilderness
Travel Course. I suggested the course as a way to get outside and increase
your
experience with navigation and travel beyond what a normal backpacker might
face
in their first few years. It is also a great way to meet people to go on
trips with. (By the way, there is a sister course in San Diego.) I don't
know
of anything else comparable in this area.
I took BMTC back in 1978 and I mainly did it to get exposure to snow
camping. I too, really valued the ice ax training. Alas...WTC can no
longer
teaches ice ax or climbing with ropes due to insurance restrictions. In
about
1982(?) the Sierra Club forced to stop these more "risky" activities because
they
were paying an arm and a leg in insurance and not that many people (out of
the total Sierra Club Membership) participated in those particular
activities.
That brought the end of BMTC, and in a couple of years the WTC was started
with some of the old staff and a somewhat restricted curriculum.
I think Lonetrail's criticism of the lack of lightweight approach is
valid. The course was founded by mountaineers and in many ways is
preparation for
mountaineering and off-trail hiking year-round in the Sierras. I too, learn
about the light way to do things from this list and other books and
websites.
Some of us chime in with lightweight ideas and the momentum is growing.
It is oriented to "weekend warriors" because that is the reality of
the participants and the staff. Being in Southern California, we are lucky
to
have mountains for day hiking and the Sierras for weekend trips. The course
is
not tied to any retailer.
WTC is not a perfect course for the aspiring thru-hiker, but I proposed
it as an economical way for some folks to build their skills. You hear
these
stories of folks starting a long hike who have never dealt with bad weather
or
a map before in their lives. Maybe if some of these folks had some training
ahead of time, they would be safer, more confident, and avoid some hassles.
Scott Nelson
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:34:18 -0800
From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Seirra runs
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20031110013230.06aeae50@fastpack.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 07:01 PM 11/9/03, StoneDancer1@aol.com wrote:
> >>>Maybe a water source prior to KM?<<<
>
>I nominate Golden Oak Springs, which, when I went through this year, was
full
>of all manner dead critters ( mostly insect ) or, the perhaps-not-so-lovely
>Robin Bird Springs,
This is all assuming Giardia caused the problems, with it's 7-14 day
incubation period.
From what I've read, I think the problem was probably pink snow (algae)
which hits a lot faster.
--
Brick Robbins
All that is gold does not glitter,
not all those who wander, are lost....
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 04:35:52 -0800 (PST)
From: thomas conover <tkconover1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Guidebook
To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Message-ID: <20031110123552.82065.qmail@web41001.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I have a PCT volume 1 uidebook by Wilderness press available to anyone
planning a PCT hike. The guidebook is new and I will sell it for $10 plus
shipping. Hope this helps someone.
Tom Conover
---------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:53:47 EST
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Seirra runs
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In a message dated 11/10/2003 2:16:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,
brick@fastpack.com writes:
This is all assuming Giardia caused the problems, with it's 7-14 day
incubation period.
This is a good point. Which brings to mind, what are the incubation periods
of common bacteria and other protozoans that cause intestinal disorders? Is
Giardia, being a protozoan, longer than most?
No Way
Ray E
------------------------------
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