[pct-l] MSR white gas stoves - warning - LONG

[svein_eriksen@xxxxxxxxx (Svein Eriksen)]

This is going to be a long and possibly boring (no
flames) answer to some questions, and then a lot of
un-called-for info about fuel, stoves and my
experiences with them.

First things first. Did my Whisperlite ever clog, and
the weight of the Ti bottle:

Clogging, no clear answer to that. I=92ve had it burn
with reduced effect a couple of times. I=92ve given it a
few knocks (without turning it off) and then it=92s been
fine. Assume the shakerjet needle fixed the problem.
Once or twice I=92ve had to turn it off and shake it a
bit to get it going. I also usually shake it before
starting it. Used the wire in the fuel lead a couple
of times, but that=92s it for 6-7 years of excellent
service. I=92ve never actually opened the stove.

Bottles. Noticed someone answered that one, but as
I=92ve already checked the weight on mine I=92ve included
a table below. Note that everything is in grams and ml
as that=92s what my scales display (325ml is 11 ounce).
All weights are without the cap which I never carry
anyway. The tables are tab-separated, so it might look
better in Word or Excel than in the e-mail reader.

Brand	Size Year	Weight
MSR	325ml	1999	78
MSR	650ml	1983	115
MSR	650ml	1996	131
MSR 	800ml 1998	103 (Titanium)
Sigg	1000ml 1990	112

So, why this table? There are some interesting facts
here =96 at least to fuel bottle enthusiasts. The first
is that the weight of the 22 oz bottle has increased
by around 15% from 83 to 96. Don=92t know why, maybe the
83 model wasn=92t safe enough. The other being that a
Sigg bottle is lighter, actually as light as the MSR
Ti bottle when you take the slightly bigger volume
into account. Still, my favourite for the PCT would be
the 800ml Ti bottle. MSR also makes a smaller Ti
bottle now, 600ml if I remember correctly. It would
probably be enough for many people.

There=92s been a lot of comments on the MSR pumps on
this list, so I also checked the weight of the pumps.
I=92ve never had problems with any of mine though.
XGK	1983	65g
Whisperlite	1996	51g
Simmerlite	2003	58g

Comparing pumps from three different models bought at
different times don=92t really tell that much. The
differences might simply be different materials used
at different times. It might also imply that they made
more solid pumps in 83 (although it=92s also plastic).
Or it might mean that the XGK needs heavier pump to
handle the additional fuel types. There=92s really only
thing that certain. MSR have increased the weight of
the pump for the Simmerlite. I=92d like to believe that
the added weight comes from making it sturdier and/or
giving better flame control. Of course it could also
be from using cheaper and heavier materials=85

Someone noted that every time a question is asked
about white gas stoves then the anti MSR and anti
white gas crowd start posting unrelated answers. The
same goes for other topics too, making it a bit
frustrating to follow a thread where only a fraction
of the answers actually concern the topic.
So, to prove I can do it too, I=92m going to write about
alcohol, propane, Primus, Trangia (and more!) on a MSR
white gas thread.

Everything you don=92t want to know about fuel and
stoves.
Alcohol stoves seem to be extremely hot for
thruhikers. Used mainly alcohol stoves (Trangia 25 and
27) for the first 10 years of my outdoor life,
although I=92ve never owned one myself. The were perfect
for boy scouts, ultra reliable, no moving parts, no
priming, fairly safe fuel etc. The downside was poor
adjustability and fairly slow boil times. The Trangias
are two person stove + windscreen + pot combinations
and pretty heavy compared to the thruhiker=92s homemade
stoves, which I haven=92t tried. Still can=92t se any
reason to be fanatic about alcohol stoves. Granted I=92d
love the no priming and no moving part bit. But
alcohol has a much lower =93heat content=94 than white gas
or propane, and you=92ll have to carry more alcohol or
resupply more often.

Got my first white gas stove around 1980 and it wasn=92t
a MSR. Bought a Coleman Peak 1 and it=92s still the best
stove I=92ve ever owned =96 except for thruhiking. It has
a built-in tank, good for a (long) weekend. No
priming, excellent adjustability and got a quart of
water boiling before my friends Optimus 111 had passed
it=92s priming stage.
Getting a MSR XGK some years later was really a big
disappointment. The XGK got excellent reviews in
Backpacker and other outdoor magazines, but to me it
seemed like a half-finished product compared to the
Coleman. It=92s more field maintainable and burns
anything, but the =93User interface=94 was horrible. Still
is, but for a thruhike I=92d still go with an MSR
because of weight and packability. Even a Whisperlite
has more adjustability than any alcohol stove I=92ve
seen and it=92s been my choice so far. Simmerlite also
looks good.

Propane/butane mix is my favourite fuel. Started out
with a Camping Gaz (the blue canisters) on my 96 AT
thruhike. Ran out of fuel after a couple of weeks and
switched to Whisperlite. Never found anything that
even gets close to the ease of use of a canister
stove, and you can find models that weigh less than 4
ounces. But it=92s more difficult finding fuel, and
around 10 times as expensive. It=92s also inconvenient
that you often have to carry two canisters as you
can=92t time it so one is empty exactly at a resupply
point. Still, I=92ve met thruhikers using canister
stoves and at least on the AT it should be possible
without too much trouble. Redid Springer to Pearisburg
in 99, and then I would have been fine finding new
canisters on that section (and the south was the most
difficult section in 96).

What I=92d really want.
The stove I really want doesn=92t exist. Primus make
multifuel models that will work on both white gas and
propane cartridges (and kerosene). I think that=92s an
excellent idea. Almost bought one when they came out.
Fortunately I read the spec first. They weigh a ton.
Since then I=92ve also seen (and heard) it in use. Poor
adjustability and it makes a lot of noise. You also
turn it off with a turn-the-bottle operation that
makes a MSR stove look user-friendly.
At least they got the idea right. Now, if just MSR
would try the same. If you check their website you=92ll
find that they have canister stove that looks exactly
the same as the Simmerlite. Why not merge those two?
Then I=92d get the convenience of canister fuel on
weekend trips and longer hikes with easy resupply,
then use white gas for more difficult areas.


--- Paul Schilke <paul@qtm.net> wrote:
> Svien,
>
> When you used it with unleaded fuel did you have any
> problems?  Has it
> ever clogged?
>
>
> Does anybody know the difference in weight between a
> titanuim MSR
> bottle and a regular?
>
> Thanks


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