[pct-l] DO I NEED AN ICE AXE bandwagon

[calliger@xxxxxxxxxxxx (Richard)]

I said hit the "snow" not the slope. Big diff...not sure if that is
waht u meant...but when I was at 11,000 feet at 11AM it was perfect
and then 1 hour to go up and over 12000 and then down at noon
one is still in the firm "perfect" stage of not postholing and
not sliding on ice/frozen snow.

Clearly if one wants to cannonball the snow early in the AM and
blast ahead on the frozen tundrr <grin> then ice axe and crampons
are req'd!

WIth my methodology you trade off the weight of the "extra" gear
for "intelligent" assesment of the situation and optimal timing
to hit the snow. Which with this time of year all the JMT passes
should be about the same conditions at the same time and take
therefore the same strategy.

But again, be forewarned, conditions change and are not the
same, I was lucky on my two trips of the JMT plus the
mountaineering to have optimal conditions.

However on Lyell and also Ritter-Banner crampons and full length
ice-axe were needed. So if you are going to take some side peak-bagging
(the best part of the JMT IMHO!!!) gear-up accordingly.

Otherwise, no warranties or fitness of my opinion apply and total
disclaimers apply. I only stated what worked for me in those
particular low-snow years (94? 95? if I recall correclty..) 97-98
was an El Nino and we could not get near anything until mid July?
was that a later opening of Tioga pass that year? I seem to remember
being stuck on Highway 120 in 10 inches of snow and 200 cars
in a row when they shut it down..

R



 At 09:24 AM 4/11/03 -0700, David Davis wrote:
>Mmmm?  I'm not sure I'd totally agree with that.  It's true if you are
>dealing with isolated patches as a late June, early July hiker most likely
>would be.  On the other hand, if there is a lot of snow, and you hit the
>slope at 11, you are likely to post hole at 11,000 on the South slope, have
>perfect conditions at 12000' on the South slope followed by ice higher up
>and really treacherous ice on the North slope at 12,000 feet, followed by a
>horrible afternoon post holing session at lower elevations.
>
>That's why I'd say if there is a lot of snow you are better off to hit it
>early and get off the slopes before they start getting mushy.  For this, an
>ice axe is essential and crampons really nice.
>
>Further South in my home territory, it's a pretty fair bet that if you race
>to get to Idlywild in the morning you will face dangerous ice (assuming
>there's any snow at all) on the North face of Tahquitz. If you then depart
>Idylwild any later than pre-dawn, you are likely to face a five mile post
>hole session down Fuller ridge.
>
>I'm not the most experienced snow tramper, but I've done a fair amount, so
>filter this thought with that knowledge.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard" <calliger@infolane.com>
>To: "David Davis" <dave@livebythepark.com>
>Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 8:21 AM
>Subject: Re: [pct-l] DO I NEED AN ICE AXE bandwagon
>
>
>> There is a "perfect" time to hit the snow I found...depending
>> on the temps/cloud cover the snow around 11am is perfect..no postholing
>> & still consolidated enuf to only sink a few inches but not frozen
>> enuf to be dangerous in a slide..this time is so pleasureable!! Makes
>> me wanna go find the snow Now!!
>>
>>
>> R
>>
>> At 08:16 AM 4/11/03 -0700, David Davis wrote:
>> >I'd kind of second the idea that time of day matters more than anything
>> >else.  A slope that is treacherous and deadly at 7AM will feel like
>flypaper
>> >at 3PM.  Of course it is way easier to tramp across snow when it's firm.
>If
>> >there appears (from snow reports) to be a lot of snow, I'd carry ice axe
>and
>> >maybe crampons planning to hit the slopes when they are firm and
>> >treacherous.  If it looks like just a few isolated patches, I'd plan to
>hit
>> >them in the afternoon and just post hole trudge along.
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Richard" <calliger@infolane.com>
>> >To: "Mike Bender" <mikesjmt@hotmail.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>> >Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 6:25 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [pct-l] DO I NEED AN ICE AXE bandwagon
>> >
>> >
>> >> Here's my analysis:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This is a low snow year from YNP south, but as usual the high passes
>will
>> >have
>> >> some snow and ice until mid July at least. If you are going
>> >> to take 2 weeks to do it and going SOBO from YNP you won't
>> >> have much melting occuring..some, yes of course.
>> >>
>> >> The many times I have been on the JMT in July I carried
>> >> a full length ice axe and needed it as I was summiting snowy peaks
>> >> like Lyell. But the nearby pass was *mostly* clear.
>> >>
>> >> And other years it was just a big tarp stake,
>> >> but I was glad I had it as I saw melting
>> >> snow that a week earlier would have been dangerous...
>> >> does that make sense?
>> >>
>> >> How much snow and ice may be determined at the snow level
>> >> sites on the net for a rough estimate...maybe some of the
>> >> folks leaving this month will upload snow reports?
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps one solution I have been thinking of might work:
>> >> taking a 10 in. lightweight ice tool to use as an ice axe...
>> >> u can chop steps with it if need be and self-arrest by
>> >> keeping the strap tight on your wrist.
>> >> And the whole thing is only 12 oz.
>> >>
>> >> Another thought is that you could adjust your schedule
>> >> so as to always go over the high passes/snowy areas
>> >> in the afternoon when the snowy/ice combo has warmed
>> >> and you can kick steps and have no need of an ice
>> >> axe.  At these times the snow is soft enuf to
>> >> act as its own "brake", i.e., you'd be hard pressed to
>> >> slide very far if at all during a fall as you could
>> >> dig in quite quickly. And hence would not need an ice
>> >> axe. And coupled with this I would be extra careful
>> >> on north facing slopes that might not warm up
>> >> sufficiently.
>> >>
>> >> Personaly, since I own a 2nd axe, a titanium 20" axe
>> >> that has negative weight <grin> I will be hanging that from
>> >> my pack this summer for the JMT if I mended enuf to go.
>> >>
>> >> Hope my ramblings have given you some insight,
>> >>
>> >> Richard
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 08:41 AM 4/11/03 -0400, Mike Bender wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >I'd like to jump on the DO I NEED AN ICE AXE question.  I'm an east
>> >coaster
>> >> >attempting the JMT this summer.  Leaving June 29th SOBO from Yosemite.
>> >I'll
>> >> >be carrying no more than 25 lbs unless I decide to bring the gallon of
>> >DEET.
>> >> >  Experienced Thru-Hiker (AT 2001), not so much at elevation in Sierra
>> >type
>> >> >mountains though.  I have used an ice axe before and I have been
>trained
>> >on
>> >> >self arrest, so I'm not a total idiot (I guess that can be argued).
>> >Anywho,
>> >> >Do I need an ice axe?
>> >> >
>> >> >Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
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