[pct-l] Last resort weapons

[kublakhanpics@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Dennis B)]

hi gray, i didn't mean to suggest bringing a gun as a weapon on the trail.
guns have no place there, not even for hunting.  i was wondering if anybody
had considered a method as a LAST RESORT in the way of self defense against
a bear or cougar attack.  does there exist a device that would give off such
a piercing sound as to repel an attack?  how about a device that could act
in the way a grenade dissipates material and only at the last moment during
an attack could be ignited sending a heavy overwhelming cloud of tear
gas/pepper spray over the fight (of course temporarily blinding both human
and animal) or maybe exploding some sort of extremely objectionable odor or
material over both combatants to put an end to the attack.  these are LAST
RESORT measures of course and as such wouldn't contribute to the all-too
dangerous hiker's feeling of invincibility while walking the trail...that is
when people and animals get hurt.  (show me a hiker walking down a trail
with a double barrel shotgun for protection and i'll show you a dead bear
ever time...maybe a dead hiker or two by way of accident)

has anyone thought of a device that would incapacitate both parties to the
fight?  it seems like such an interruption gives the upper hand to the human
to get out of danger and dissuade a second attack by the animal.  the
problem, it seems, with bear spray (one of the problems) is of aim.  in
fact, wind direction could harm only the shooter. (i've seen this happen up
close sending the person - my 58 year old mother in this case - to her
knees, blindly fumbling on the ground for cover!  not a sight i'd like to
see again.)  this idea would overcome that.

i've seen PLENTY of bears and have never had reason to panic by the way.

just thinking ...and hoping for a safe journey for all.


----- Original Message -----
From: <pct-l-request@mailman.backcountry.net>
To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:00 AM
Subject: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #833 - 42 msgs


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Sonora Pass (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
>    2. Re: Sonora Pass (Richard)
>    3. Re: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #830 - 20 msgs (Paul Weader)
>    4. Frogg Toggs and Grizzly Prints (Montedodge@aol.com)
>    5. RE: Muir Trail Ranch (Robert Ellinwood)
>    6. Re: RE: Muir Trail Ranch vs. VVR (Steve Courtway)
>    7. Re: RE: Muir Trail Ranch vs. VVR (Slyatpct@aol.com)
>    8. Skeeters??? (AV8TORX@aol.com)
>    9. Re: Re: PCT Grizzlies (and weapons on trail) (Gray)
>   10. Re: anyone starting around 05 May (Jeff Bohannon)
>   11. fear and love (Christy Andrews)
>   12. Re: fear and love (Jeffrey J. Olson)
>   13. Re: Skeeters??? (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
>   14. PCT VOL. 1 (Jason Hebert)
>   15. Re: PCT VOL. 1 (David Davis)
>   16. RE: PCT VOL. Northern Calif. (Marge Prothman)
>   17. Hartford Gathering (Brian Booth)
>   18. Re: Frogg Toggs (Christine Kudija)
>   19. Re: Canadian Border Crossing - ADDENDUM (larry hillberg)
>   20. Re: Canadian Border Crossing - ADDENDUM (Slyatpct@aol.com)
>   21. yogi's PCT resupply strategy (yogi hicker)
>   22. Should I buy new guidebooks? (Christopher Van Loon)
>   23. Re: yogi's PCT resupply strategy (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
>   24. re: Hartford Gathering (Christopher Van Loon)
>   25. yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (yogi hicker)
>   26. should I buy new guidebooks? (yogi hicker)
>   27. VVR (Marion Davison)
>   28. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (Marion Davison)
>   29. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (CMountainDave@aol.com)
>   30. yogi's resupply . . . VVR . . . llamas (yogi hicker)
>   31. Re: Skeeters??? (Grey Eagle)
>   32. Re: Should I buy new guidebooks? (Grey Eagle)
>   33. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
>   34. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (Brad Wilson)
>   35. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (Marshall Karon)
>   36. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (Slyatpct@aol.com)
>   37. Skeeters??? (yogi hicker)
>   38. Re: yogi's resupply strategy - VVR (yogi hicker)
>   39. Re: Skeeters??? (Ben Curtis)
>   40. Border , have a copy of your birth Cert. (Montedodge@aol.com)
>   41. Re: Trail Angels (StoneDancer1@aol.com)
>   42. Re: Border , have a copy of your birth Cert. (Brad Wilson)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:05:09 EST
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Sonora Pass
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I just talked with Joan at the Kennedy Meadows Pack Station.    They will
> hold packages for thru hikers for a fee of $10.  The packages need to be
> clearly marked on the outside so they will know to hold them.  They are
held
> at the store. See address below. There is a resturant that opens at 6:00am
> and closes 8pm at the earliest....sometimes later if there are customers.
A
> family style dinner is served each night...or you can order from the
> menu...dinners and sandwiches, etc.   There is a bar that is open until
2am,
> unless people aren't drinking, when they might close at 11pm.  There is no
> camping at the pack station itself, however there are at least two
> campgrounds between Highway 108 and the mile or so to the pack station.
> First come, first served....and they generally fill up for the weekends.
> Sporadically there are rooms at the pack station available for rent...
> smallest is 2 beds and a bathroom for $52.50+8% and the largest sleeps
10-12
> and goes for $126.50+8%.
>
> I have hitchiked from the pass to Kennedy Meadows...not too hard of a
hitch.
> Going back I found someone in the campground to take me back.
>
> Send packages to:
>
> Kennedy Meadows Pack Station
> 57 miles East of Sonora on Hiway 108  ( I know this looks wierd for an
> address)
> Sonora, CA  95370  ( oh yeah, don't put the stuff in parentheses on your
> label :c)
>
> See ya there
> No Way
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:12:52 -0800
> To: StoneDancer1@aol.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> From: Richard <calliger@infolane.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sonora Pass
>
> Camping around sonora pass east to the Marine base,
> and west to the edge of the campgrounds (near Kennedy meadows)
> is all "free" and allowed anywhere (National Forest rules).
>
> For vehciles the restriction is to existing roads. For hikers
> it is stream distance rules.
>
> There are billions and billions of beautiful places
> to camp in the pass area. The most interesting was
> the nights I have spent on top of Leavitt and Sonora
> peaks...the views are good/exceptional for such low peaks
> (10-11000 or so).
>
> Richard
>
>
> At 01:05 PM 3/28/03 EST, StoneDancer1@aol.com wrote:
> >--
> >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >I just talked with Joan at the Kennedy Meadows Pack Station.    They will
> >hold packages for thru hikers for a fee of $10.  The packages need to be
> >clearly marked on the outside so they will know to hold them.  They are
held
> >at the store. See address below. There is a resturant that opens at
6:00am
> >and closes 8pm at the earliest....sometimes later if there are customers.
A
> >family style dinner is served each night...or you can order from the
> >menu...dinners and sandwiches, etc.   There is a bar that is open until
2am,
> >unless people aren't drinking, when they might close at 11pm.  There is
no
> >camping at the pack station itself, however there are at least two
> >campgrounds between Highway 108 and the mile or so to the pack station.
> >First come, first served....and they generally fill up for the weekends.
> >Sporadically there are rooms at the pack station available for rent...
> >smallest is 2 beds and a bathroom for $52.50+8% and the largest sleeps
10-12
> >and goes for $126.50+8%.
> >
> >I have hitchiked from the pass to Kennedy Meadows...not too hard of a
hitch.
> >Going back I found someone in the campground to take me back.
> >
> >Send packages to:
> >
> >Kennedy Meadows Pack Station
> >57 miles East of Sonora on Hiway 108  ( I know this looks wierd for an
> >address)
> >Sonora, CA  95370  ( oh yeah, don't put the stuff in parentheses on your
> >label :c)
> >
> >See ya there
> >No Way
> >_______________________________________________
> >PCT-L mailing list
> >PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> >http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "Paul Weader" <pweader@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 08:24:39 -1000
> Subject: [pct-l] Re: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #830 - 20 msgs
>
> Anyone have experience or an opinion on using the Muir Trail Ranch as a
> resupply point?  From their printed flier, they seem to be well organized
> (although at $45 per package, expensive).
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: Montedodge@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:27:22 EST
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Frogg Toggs and Grizzly Prints
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>  First Frogg Toggs have the largest following yo9u will see on the PCT. (
> Poncho's a close second) Reason is the price and weigh. They are very
> breathable ( As much as any raingear can be) and weigh only ounces. 75.00
for
> a complete suit on their web site. Marge is right ! Last year's Kick-off
in
> the rain looked like a Frogg Togg convention!
>    Grizzly tracks? Rear foot on black bear have a slight arch and looks
abit
> like a human track. Grizzly track rear foot is very taper toward the heel
and
> is a flat foot. ( no arch) I got to see a solid 2 miles worth on CDT in
1999
> just north of the Chinese wall where trail drops down Rock creek. Heavy
brush
> in this area and lots of mud and horse flies in early august. Bob Marshall
> was few hikers,lots of horses and lots more bears!!  A small Grizzly track
> and a large blak bear may be same size, but look at the shape and if it's
got
> arch.
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> From: "Robert Ellinwood" <rellinwood@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Paul Weader'" <pweader@hotmail.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:33:14 -0500
> Subject: [pct-l] RE: Muir Trail Ranch
>
> Yes, I have used MTR.  Yes, initially they seem expensive.  $45 for a
> food drop bucket (see their instructions). I used them before because of
> their extreme convenience and location just off the PCT/JMT... and I
> didn't have to worry about the timing of catching a boat ride.
>
> Most other hikers use VVR.  It has an ambience that seems to attract
> hikers. As I have read logs and posts from hikers this winter, however,
> I hear admissions that the cost ended up being far greater at VVR when
> all the extras - food, package fee, tenting (if more than the single
> night), and the boat ride, are added up. I have read several hikers
> talking in terms of $140 or more, as a final cost.  Yet, everyone seems
> to want to go there.  OK!
>
> Not given to herd mentality, this summer, we will probably not go there,
> but elect to swing by MTR again and then move up to Sally Keyes Lakes
> for good camping. They were quite pleasant with me at MTR last time and
> we are more interested in moving on, at that point of the hike, than
> getting sucked into a "time out," no matter how much fun and atmospheric
> it might be.  To each his/her own...
>
> No need to flame with one's passionate feelings about VVR. That's an
> acknowledged "given" and well documented.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-
> > admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Paul Weader
> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:25 PM
> > To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] Re: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #830 - 20 msgs
> >
> > Anyone have experience or an opinion on using the Muir Trail Ranch as
> a
> > resupply point?  From their printed flier, they seem to be well
> organized
> > (although at $45 per package, expensive).
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "Steve Courtway" <scourtway@bpa-arch.com>
> To: "'Paul Weader'" <pweader@hotmail.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] RE: Muir Trail Ranch vs. VVR
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 11:57:29 -0800
>
> The question of which to use as a resupply point
> 1/2 way thru the trek from KM -> TM lies in what
> you want from your experience.
>
> You will either:
>
> 1) want to get some "real" food, and VVR has that,
> along with a, shall we say, "unique california backwoods
> redneck fishing outpost" feel to it.
>
> or
>
> 2) not want to interrupt the free flow of the wilderness
> experience you are in the middle of and opt. to just drop
> in at MTR, pick up your drop, and flow on.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Ellinwood" <rellinwood@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Paul Weader'" <pweader@hotmail.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:33 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] RE: Muir Trail Ranch
>
>
> > Yes, I have used MTR.  Yes, initially they seem expensive.  $45 for a
> > food drop bucket (see their instructions). I used them before because of
> > their extreme convenience and location just off the PCT/JMT... and I
> > didn't have to worry about the timing of catching a boat ride.
> >
> > Most other hikers use VVR.  It has an ambience that seems to attract
> > hikers. As I have read logs and posts from hikers this winter, however,
> > I hear admissions that the cost ended up being far greater at VVR when
> > all the extras - food, package fee, tenting (if more than the single
> > night), and the boat ride, are added up. I have read several hikers
> > talking in terms of $140 or more, as a final cost.  Yet, everyone seems
> > to want to go there.  OK!
> >
> > Not given to herd mentality, this summer, we will probably not go there,
> > but elect to swing by MTR again and then move up to Sally Keyes Lakes
> > for good camping. They were quite pleasant with me at MTR last time and
> > we are more interested in moving on, at that point of the hike, than
> > getting sucked into a "time out," no matter how much fun and atmospheric
> > it might be.  To each his/her own...
> >
> > No need to flame with one's passionate feelings about VVR. That's an
> > acknowledged "given" and well documented.
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-
> > > admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Paul Weader
> > > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:25 PM
> > > To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> > > Subject: [pct-l] Re: PCT-L digest, Vol 1 #830 - 20 msgs
> > >
> > > Anyone have experience or an opinion on using the Muir Trail Ranch as
> > a
> > > resupply point?  From their printed flier, they seem to be well
> > organized
> > > (although at $45 per package, expensive).
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PCT-L mailing list
> > > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:13:01 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] RE: Muir Trail Ranch vs. VVR
> To: scourtway@bpa-arch.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> I stopped at both!
>
> I met Rude Dog on the AT prior to my hike and he invited me to stop in and
> visit the MTR when I was passing through as he would be working there.
They
> were kind of busy at the time, but we had time enough to have a few
glasses
> of wine.  He also found me a freebie pack of cigarettes.  A nice, if short
> visit.  Others have hit there at an opportune time and been invited in for
a
> meal and use of the hot tub.
>
> I was at VVR two days and it cost me over $100, but I had a great time.
Man,
> that first free beer can get expensive.
>
> I guess I'm lucky, I can go from wilderness to civilization and back and
not
> miss a step.  It's all fun.
>
> Sly
>
>
> In a message dated 3/28/2003 2:55:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> scourtway@bpa-arch.com writes:
>
> > 1) want to get some "real" food, and VVR has that,
> > along with a, shall we say, "unique california backwoods
> > redneck fishing outpost" feel to it.
> >
> > or
> >
> > 2) not want to interrupt the free flow of the wilderness
> > experience you are in the middle of and opt. to just drop
> > in at MTR, pick up your drop, and flow on.
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: AV8TORX@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:24:34 EST
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Skeeters???
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> Hi, From KM north to Lake Tahoe any problems with Mosquitos during the
month
> of June?  Thanks Ojos
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: "Gray" <gray_hiker@mindpoison.org>
> To: <pct-l@backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: PCT Grizzlies (and weapons on trail)
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 12:31:41 -0800
>
> > Are you sure you were looking at grizzly tracks? Here's the NPS
> description
> > of how to tell the difference, from http://www.nps.gov/noca/bear.htm :
>
> Interesting page, learned some cool things.
>
> For the person that was asking about weapons on the trail, somethig to
think
> about, taken from the above link:
>
> "If a bear approaches you, do not scream or run or make sudden motions.
You
> cannot outrun a bear, and screaming may increase the danger of the
> situation. Do not shoot the bear. A wound is likely to do more than anger
> the animal and will greatly increase the danger to you. "
>
> So, like I suspected, a gun is more likely to be a negative, not a plus,
in
> a bear encounter.
>
> Gray
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "Jeff Bohannon" <jeffbohannon@hotmail.com>
> To: aeculp@yahoo.com, PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] anyone starting around 05 May
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:36:13 +0000
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Anthony, Tripping Ant
> Bob Riess is famous for taking hikers to the trailhead here in San Diego.
> I'll forward his info to you. I take people to the trailhead but can't
host
> unfortunatly and with a small pick-up w/cab I can only "legally" take 1 or
2
> at a time.May 05 is open for me and I'd be glad to help.
>
> jeff 619.563.8949
>
>
> >From: Anthony Culpepper <aeculp@yahoo.com>
> >To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> >Subject: [pct-l] anyone starting around 05 May
> >Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 19:17:53 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >--
> >[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> >
> >Hello PCTL,
> >
> >I am, tentatively planning, beginning my PCT hike sometime around 05 May.
> >I would like to get in touch with other thru-hikers starting around the
> >same date.  More precisely, how are you guys getting to Campo?
> >
> >Currently, as my plans stand, I am going to be spending about a month in
> >the Yosemite area before heading to San Diego, via bus/train.  The
earliest
> >I can arrive in San Diego is very early morning on 05 May.  Great for an
> >early trail start, bad due to the timing of San Diego public transit.
> >
> >If anyone is staring around this date, if you do not mind, please contact
> >me.  Perhaps, taxi sharing could be in order.
> >
> >Now a question for you PCT vets.  I have heard there are folks in the San
> >Diego area who host and shuttle hikers to the trail head.  If these
> >generous souls do exist how does one contact them.
> >
> >Many Thanks,
> >
> >Anthony Culpepper (Trippin Ant AT '02)
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> >_______________________________________________
> >PCT-L mailing list
> >PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> >http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 11
> From: "Christy Andrews" <stormygirlie@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 13:31:46 -0800
> Subject: [pct-l] fear and love
>
> [ Converted text/html to text/plain ]
>
> "So my advice would be to focus less on equipment, particularly of the
> dangerous kind, and instead place a stronger emphasis on opening oneself
to
> the beauty and love that will assuredly be discovered along the way."
>
> How beautifully expressed! Thank you for sharing these thoughts. Love is
> letting go of fear. Recognize fear and challenge yourself to release it's
> grip. Radical and confoundingly simple.
>
> -Christy
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. [1] Get 2 months FREE*.
>
> ===References:===
>   1. http://g.msn.com/8HMVENUS/2749
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:39:31 -0700
> From: "Jeffrey J. Olson" <jjolson@uwyo.edu>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] fear and love
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> I remember night hiking in Oregon and hearing the snuffing and heavy tread
> of a bear about 100' from me, paralleling the trail.  I was in a "I'm part
> of the wilderness" mood, and I monitored the noise as I walked.  It
> eventually ended.
>
> Another night on that trip a deer kept coming up and licking the urine
where
> I'd peed - or different deer, all night long, and I couldn't sleep...
> Feeling part of something and feeling apart from something - so
different...
>
> Jeff Olson
> Laramie Wyoming...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christy Andrews" <stormygirlie@hotmail.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 2:31 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] fear and love
>
>
> > [ Converted text/html to text/plain ]
> >
> > "So my advice would be to focus less on equipment, particularly of the
> > dangerous kind, and instead place a stronger emphasis on opening oneself
> to
> > the beauty and love that will assuredly be discovered along the way."
> >
> > How beautifully expressed! Thank you for sharing these thoughts. Love is
> > letting go of fear. Recognize fear and challenge yourself to release
it's
> > grip. Radical and confoundingly simple.
> >
> > -Christy
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 13
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 17:23:12 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Skeeters???
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 3/28/03 12:30:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
AV8TORX@aol.com
> writes:
>
> > any problems with Mosquitos during the month
> > of June?
>
> No, not really...nothing 3 gallons of DEET, a full body suit of mosquito
net,
> 3 electronic insect repellent devices, and all the swear words you know
can't
> take care of.  Some evenings you should just sit and see how many you can
> kill in an hour...you know, do your duty.  :c)
>
> Seriously?  They can be bad.  Last July I did a trans-Sierra in the Sonora
> Pass region and they were as bad I could ever remember seeing them.  It
> sounds worse than it is, tho...unless you are against using DEET.
>
> No Way
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 14
> From: "Jason Hebert" <jhebert8@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:29:29 -0800
> Subject: [pct-l] PCT VOL. 1
>
> I bought the Southern California half of the new version of PCT VOL 1 in
> hopes that I would be able to get the second half for my thru hike this
> year.  Not so.  They are saying not untill May.
>
> If anyone has a copy of Vol.1 they would be willing to part with I will
pay
> $ or trade for the new S.C. portion.  Suggestions on possible alternatives
> to the guide (T.M. to Seiad) would be much appreciated as well.
>
> Muchos Gracias,
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 15
> From: "David Davis" <dave@livebythepark.com>
> To: "Jason Hebert" <jhebert8@hotmail.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT VOL. 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:10:04 -0800
>
> Try a used bookstore.  I often see guide books there.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason Hebert" <jhebert8@hotmail.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 2:29 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] PCT VOL. 1
>
>
> > I bought the Southern California half of the new version of PCT VOL 1 in
> > hopes that I would be able to get the second half for my thru hike this
> > year.  Not so.  They are saying not untill May.
> >
> > If anyone has a copy of Vol.1 they would be willing to part with I will
> pay
> > $ or trade for the new S.C. portion.  Suggestions on possible
alternatives
> > to the guide (T.M. to Seiad) would be much appreciated as well.
> >
> > Muchos Gracias,
> >
> > Jason
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 16
> From: "Marge Prothman" <marge@prothman.com>
> To: "'David Davis'" <dave@livebythepark.com>,
>    "'Jason Hebert'" <jhebert8@hotmail.com>,
<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] PCT VOL. Northern Calif.
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:27:34 -0700
>
> Hi there,
> I just talked to the fellow at Wilderness Press and he said it is going to
> the printers tomorrow and it takes 6 weeks for it to be printed.  He
> suggested anyone who wants one mailed to them up the trail should call him
> on the 21st of April or even a few days later and he will know exactly
what
> the status will be at that time  and then you can decide how far up the
> trail you may want it mailed and they will oblige you.
> Cheers,
> Marge (the old gal)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net
> [mailto:pct-l-admin@mailman.backcountry.net] On Behalf Of David Davis
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:10 PM
> To: Jason Hebert; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT VOL. 1
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:33:47 -0800 (PST)
> From: Brian Booth <bbooth626@yahoo.com>
> To: PCT Digest <PCT-L@backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Hartford Gathering
>
> Anyone out there in the New England area that would be interested in
> getting together at my house in Hartford, Connecticut for a PCT
> gathering, sharing of stories & showing of slides?  Would be on
> Saturday Apr 26.  If interested, please email me directly at
> bbooth626@yahoo.com.  Thanks!
>
> Brian "Charlie Manson" Booth
> PCT '90
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 18
> Reply-To: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
> From: "Christine Kudija" <cmkudija@earthlink.net>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Frogg Toggs
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:35:42 -0800
>
>
> When ordering Frogg Toggs, be aware that their sizing is "oversized"
> compared to many other manufacturers.  I'm 5'6", weigh about 135, and wear
> extra-small.  The leg length is a bit short, and I'm thinking about adding
> some sort of a cuff.
>
> But standing in steady rain at the ADZ last year I stayed absolutely dry.
> Amazing.
>
> Also, washing them in cold water, mild soap, and hanging them to dry takes
> out some of the stiffness in the fabric.
> Now if they were only available in fire-engine red! ;-)
>
> Christine "Ceanothus" Kudija
>
> "Never measure the height of a mountain, until you have reached the top.
> Then you will see how low it was."  Dag Hammarskjold
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 18:11:09 -0800 (PST)
> From: larry hillberg <walkinglarry@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Canadian Border Crossing - ADDENDUM
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> The permit required to enter Canada from the PCT is
> simple to fill out. It is available from the PCT
> Association.  The Canadian response was prompt.  I
> don't think the form is all that seriously analyzed,
> since on the DESCRIPTION line, I had entered "scruffy
> hiker," and it came back just as written.
>
> When I flew out from Vancouver, my California driver's
> license was enough to get out, although they looked me
> over carefully, and expressed that a passport would
> have been better.  I was singled out for a security
> check at the airplane gate though, and was scared to
> death when, just as the security guy waved his metal
> detector past my butt, I saw the rubber glove hanging
> over his belt.
>
> Larry H
>
> > Entering Canada from the US:
> >
> > If you are not a citizen of the USA or Canada, I
> > suspect you will also need proof of prior legal
> > entry into the USDA before Canadian Immigration will
> > allow you to leave the USA and enter Canada. Since
> > US Immigration official will likely be there as
> > well, you could be in real trouble if you don't. If
> > you're caught in this country without a valid visa,
> > you can be deported and barred from re-entry to the
> > USA, which means any future visa requests will be
> > denied.
> >
> > Wandering Bob
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> >
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 20
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:22:34 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Canadian Border Crossing - ADDENDUM
> To: walkinglarry@yahoo.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 3/28/2003 9:13:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> walkinglarry@yahoo.com writes:
>
> > I was singled out for a security
> > check at the airplane gate though, and was scared to
> > death when, just as the security guy waved his metal
> > detector past my butt, I saw the rubber glove hanging
> > over his belt.
> >
>
> Hahaha..  the security guy didn't happen to look like Jack Elam did he?
>
> Sly
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 21
> From: "yogi hicker" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:41:57 -0600
> Subject: [pct-l] yogi's PCT resupply strategy
>
> A couple days ago, I posted the towns I'd buy food in and the towns I'd
send
> maildrops to.  After re-reading that post, I realized I wasn't very
> thorough.  SPECIFICALLY, I left out Chester CA and Cajon Pass.  Here's a
> more detailed resupply strategy.  For specific information on what each
town
> has to offer, go to my 2002 PCT journal at www.trailjournals.com/yogi
>
> I will be making major updates on the resupply information on
trailjournals
> this weekend.  I should have the updates posted by Sunday night.
>
> The next time I hike the PCT---hopefully in 2006---I will not use a
support
> person from home.  I believe the PCT trailtowns are at perfect intervals
for
> a self-sufficient hike.  When I hike again, here=92s the resupply strategy
> I=92ll use:
>
> 42.9 - Mt Laguna - maildrop sent from home
>
> 110.6 - Warner Springs - maildrop sent from home
>
> 153.7 - Idyllwild via Pines-to-Palms Hwy - buy food
>
> 212.0 - Cabazon - buy food
> -------OR-------
> 213.5 - Pink Motel - maildrop sent from home
>
> 267.4 - Big Bear City via Hwy 18 - buy food
>
> 344.7 - Cajon Pass - carry an extra dinner from Big Bear City, and buy
> snacks/lunch at the convenience store here, enough to get me to
Wrightwood.
>
> 371.9 - Wrightwood via Angeles Crest Hwy 2 - buy food.  Maybe send
maildrop
> from here to Jack Fair=92s.
>
> 454.9 - Agua Dulce - buy food.  Send maildrops from here to KM and VVR.
>
> 516.0 - Jack Fair=92s - maildrop (if the new owners take them) sent from
> Wrightwood
>
> 563.7 - Mojave via Hwy 58 - buy food.  If I didn=92t send drops to KM and
V=
> VR
> from Agua Dulce, I=92d do it from Mojave.
>
> 647.8 - Onyx - buy food.  The store is small, but you only need 2 days=92
f=
> ood
> to get to KM.
>
> 697.0 - Kennedy Meadows - maildrop sent from Agua Dulce or Mojave
>
> 871.3 - Vermilion Valley Resort - maildrop sent from Agua Dulce or Mojave
>
> 900.7 - Red=92s Meadows - carry an extra dinner from VVR, buy snacks/lunch
=
> at
> the store here, enough to get from here to Tuolumne.
>
> 955.7 - Tuolumne - buy food
>
> 1087.9 (Hwy 50) or 1089.4 (Echo Lake) - go to South Lake Tahoe from here.
> Buy food.  Maybe send a maildrop to Sierra City.
>
> 1150.1 - Truckee - maybe hitch in from Donner Pass Old Hwy 40 - buy food
at
> the Safeway.
>
> 1191.5 - Sierra City - buy food or pick up maildrop sent from S. Lake
Tahoe
>
> 1283.1 - Belden - go to Quincy from here.  Buy food.  Send maildrops from
> here to Old Station and Burney Falls State Park
>
> 1329.7 - Chester - buy food
>
> 1371.6 - Old Station - maildrop sent from Quincy
>
> 1417.5 - Burney Falls State Park - maildrop sent from Quincy
>
> 1500.4 - Dunsmuir - buy food, maybe send a maildrop to Seiad Valley
>
> 1600.2 - Etna - buy food
>
> 1657.0 - Seiad Valley - maybe buy food, maybe have a maildrop sent from
> Dunsmuir
>
> 1721.5 - Ashland - buy food.  Send maildrops from here to Mazama, Shelter
> Cove, Olallie, Big Lake Youth Camp, Timberline
>
> 1825.3 - Mazama - maildrop sent from Ashland
>
> 1907.1 - Shelter Cove - maildrop sent from Ashland
>
> 1944.7 - Big Lake Youth Camp - maildrop sent from Ashland
>
> 2047.8 - Olallie - maildrop sent from Ashland
>
> 2102.0 - Timberline - maildrop sent from Ashland
>
> 2150.2 - Cascade Locks - buy food.  Send maildrops from here to White
Pass,
> Skykomish, and Stehekin.
>
> 2298.0 - White Pass - maildrop sent from Cascade Locks
>
> 2396.5 - Snoqualmie Pass - buy food
>
> 2471.6 - Skykomish - maildrop sent from Cascade Locks
>
> 2569.4 - Stehekin - maildrop sent from Cascade Locks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 19:26:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: Christopher Van Loon <vanloonc@yahoo.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Should I buy new guidebooks?
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
> I bought my guidebooks in fall of 2001, in anticipation of hiking the
trail=
>  in 2002.  Since that didn't happen, they are another year older.  I have
t=
> he fifth edition of the California guidebook, and the sixth edition of the
=
> Oregon/Washington guidebook.  It appears that the California guidebook was
=
> last updated in 1995, and was on its third printing as of 2000.  The
Oregon=
> /Washington book seems to have been updated and published in August of
2000.
>
> I'd hate to waste money if it isn't necessary, but I don't want to be
using=
>  seriously out-of-date guides.
>
> I've seen that others have had trouble getting the California guidebooks,
s=
> o I'm not even sure I'd be able to get them at this late date.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Phoenix, PCT 2003
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/phoenix
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 23
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 22:26:32 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's PCT resupply strategy
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 3/28/03 7:16:48 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > 871.3 - Vermilion Valley Resort - maildrop sent from Agua Dulce or
Mojave
>
> I think you could avoid this mail drop easily.  It's only a day and a half
to
> Red's Meadows.  I know you can't get 10 cheeseburgers there, but the store
is
> adequate.... certainly as adequate as Onyx.
>
> No Way
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 19:34:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: Christopher Van Loon <vanloonc@yahoo.com>
> Subject: re: [pct-l] Hartford Gathering
> To: bbooth626@yahoo.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> My wife and I live in East Haddam, about a 45 minute drive from Hartford.
=
> We will be closing on our house sale (with any luck) on April 16, and
drivi=
> ng out to California, where I'll put my Jeep in storage and head down to
th=
> e border.  So we won't be able to make it on April 26.  But maybe we could
=
> come by sometime in the next couple of weeks, if you had the time.  I know
=
> there are two or three other Connecticut hikers this year, but I have only
=
> emailed with one of them.
>
> In any case, it sounds like it'll be a good time on the 26th.  Good luck
to=
>  you.
>
> Phoenix, PCT 2003
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/phoenix
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 25
> From: "yogi hicker" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:42:12 -0600
> Subject: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
>
>
> There is more to a resupply point than simply resupplying.  Personally, I
> would walk the approximately 190 miles (including a Whitney sidetrip) from
> KM to VVR without going out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply.  That puts me
> at VVR.
>
> Yes, VVR is expensive.  So you'll spend a lot of money there.  Cut back
> somewhere else.  After 11 days traipsing over the passes in the Sierras,
you
> are ready for good food, showers, laundry, and time to tell tall tales
with
> your fellow hikers.  VVR is one of those places that you'll never forget.
> Not because of the food, or the tent cabin, or the shower.  But because of
> the time you spend with your fellow hikers who just went thru the same
> frightening/fun/crazy/harrowing experiences in the Sierras with you.
>
> The people who work at VVR are wonderful.
> Spending time with your fellow hikers  at VVR is wonderful.
> Taking a zero day in the middle of the Sierras is wonderful.
> Do it at VVR.
> VVR is very hiker friendly.
> It's our world.
> Red's Meadows is not ours.  It's touristy.
>
> my opinion.
> I've been there twice.
> VVR rocks.
>
> yogi
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 26
> From: "yogi hicker" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 21:44:45 -0600
> Subject: [pct-l] should I buy new guidebooks?
>
> I'm an information junkie.  Personally, I'd spend the $25 on the new book.
>
> That said, I can tell you that the "OLD" book was perfectly sufficient
last
> year, and I can't imagine the trail changed very much in the last 12
months.
>
> YMMV.
>
> yogi
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:07:00 -0800
> From: Marion Davison <mardav@charter.net>
> To: PCT List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] VVR
>
> Your quote of $140 made me guffaw.  That is precisely the amount two of
> us spent on our first visit there in 1996.  Package pickup + 5 meals +
> one extra tent night + laundry + showers + store shopping + fuel +
> beverages + ferry.  But we had been on the trail 27 days straight prior
> to the visit and enjoyed every minute of our time there.  Great company,
> terrific food, and wonderful "redneck ambience".  We have been there
> several times since and never spent that much again.
> llamalady
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 20:20:36 -0800
> From: Marion Davison <mardav@charter.net>
> To: yogi hicker <yogilists@hotmail.com>,
>    PCT List <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
>
> I couldn't agree with you more, Yogi.  VVR has bent over backwards to make
us
> llama packers welcome.  They let us camp in their parking lot, took our
llamas
> on the ferry, treat us like family, gave us free llama feed, etc.  Red's
Meadow
> and its tourists look at us like aliens from outer space, have asked us to
> remove our llamas from the parking area, and wouldn't let them set foot in
the
> campground so we could take a shower at the hot spring shower house.  The
Red's
> pack station owner cussed us out as we went by, and we were ejected from
the
> horse camp at Agnew Meadow because we aren't horses, even though the three
horse
> sites were unoccupied that night.  To their credit, the pack station
operators
> at Agnew let us spend the night in their overflow parking area.  We later
got an
> apology from Inyo for the ejection from the campground  (8 months later).
Some
> folks hate llamas even more than they hate smelly  through hikers.  I
guess it
> has something to do with spitting......
> llamalady
>
> yogi hicker wrote:
>
> > There is more to a resupply point than simply resupplying.  Personally,
I
> > would walk the approximately 190 miles (including a Whitney sidetrip)
from
> > KM to VVR without going out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply.  That puts
me
> > at VVR.
> >
> > Yes, VVR is expensive.  So you'll spend a lot of money there.  Cut back
> > somewhere else.  After 11 days traipsing over the passes in the Sierras,
you
> > are ready for good food, showers, laundry, and time to tell tall tales
with
> > your fellow hikers.  VVR is one of those places that you'll never
forget.
> > Not because of the food, or the tent cabin, or the shower.  But because
of
> > the time you spend with your fellow hikers who just went thru the same
> > frightening/fun/crazy/harrowing experiences in the Sierras with you.
> >
> > The people who work at VVR are wonderful.
> > Spending time with your fellow hikers  at VVR is wonderful.
> > Taking a zero day in the middle of the Sierras is wonderful.
> > Do it at VVR.
> > VVR is very hiker friendly.
> > It's our world.
> > Red's Meadows is not ours.  It's touristy.
> >
> > my opinion.
> > I've been there twice.
> > VVR rocks.
> >
> > yogi
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 29
> From: CMountainDave@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 00:29:56 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
>
> In a message dated 3/28/03 7:44:02 PM, yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
>
> << VVR is one of those places that you'll never forget.
> Not because of the food, or the tent cabin, or the shower.  But because of
> the time you spend with your fellow hikers who just went thru the same
> frightening/fun/crazy/harrowing experiences in the Sierras with you.
>
> The people who work at VVR are wonderful. >>
>
> I agree completely. But man, 195 miles in the Sierras without a resupply
> between KM and VVR is a major grind with all that food weight and
elevation
> gains over those 6 major passes. Hikers probably lose more weight here
than
> anywhere else along the PCT. 5000 calories a day would not suffice. I
> remember eating an entire pound of Oreos just for break snack
>  I also liked the "towns" of Seiad Valley and Stehekin. Both very hiker
> friendly. And who can forget the Sauffley's, the people who helped me in
> Castella, the firehouse in Big Bear City and the great people of the
postal
> service who went out of their way again and again and again to assist thru
> hikers. The woman at Snoqualmie even got me a room with a 50% discount and
> drove me there in her car!  I could recite dozens of acts of random
kindness
> that occurred on the PCT. The memories of that are every bit as important
to
> me as the hike itself
>  The one story that really shows how many people feel about thru hikers: I
> approached a grocery store near Silverwood Lake only to find it had been
> closed for two hours. As
>  I walked away, the door opened, a head popped out and a voice inquired,
"are
> you a PCT hiker?" When I said yes, he threw the door open, turned on the
> lights and said, "well in that case, come on in! "
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 30
> From: "yogi hicker" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 23:31:34 -0600
> Subject: [pct-l] yogi's resupply . . . VVR . . . llamas
>
> I have had ONE encounter with Llamas, and I'm not sure but it might have
> been with you.  In 2001, Noid, Phluff, Pants and I were approaching the
low
> point near Matterhorn Canyon, we passed a man and a woman hiking south
with
> Llamas.  The man/woman had hats with little umbrellas attached to them.
> That might have been you, but I'm not sure.  Our exchange was no different
> than it would have been if the people did not have llamas.
>
> The bottom line is this:  VVR is great.  Go there.
>
> 'nuff said.
>
> yogi
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 31
> From: "Grey Eagle" <greyeaglexxx@earthlink.net>
> To: <AV8TORX@aol.com>,
>    "Pacific Crest Trail Mailing List" <PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Skeeters???
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 01:48:52 -0600
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <AV8TORX@aol.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 2:24 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Skeeters???
>
>
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > Hi, From KM north to Lake Tahoe any problems with Mosquitos during the
> month
> > of June?  Thanks Ojos
> >
>
> There are few mosquitos throughout the Sierras. Bring a bottle of deet if
it
> makes you feel better but they are nothing to worry about.
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 32
> From: "Grey Eagle" <greyeaglexxx@earthlink.net>
> To: "Christopher Van Loon" <vanloonc@yahoo.com>,
>    <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Should I buy new guidebooks?
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 03:46:01 -0600
>
> Why bother? There's a path all the way from mexico to canada.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Van Loon" <vanloonc@yahoo.com>
> To: <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 9:26 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Should I buy new guidebooks?
>
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>
> I bought my guidebooks in fall of 2001, in anticipation of hiking the
trail
> in 2002.  Since that didn't happen, they are another year older.  I have
the
> fifth edition of the California guidebook, and the sixth edition of the
> Oregon/Washington guidebook.  It appears that the California guidebook was
> last updated in 1995, and was on its third printing as of 2000.  The
> Oregon/Washington book seems to have been updated and published in August
of
> 2000.
>
> I'd hate to waste money if it isn't necessary, but I don't want to be
using
> seriously out-of-date guides.
>
> I've seen that others have had trouble getting the California guidebooks,
so
> I'm not even sure I'd be able to get them at this late date.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Phoenix, PCT 2003
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/phoenix
> _______________________________________________
> PCT-L mailing list
> PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 33
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:33:43 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> To: yogilists@hotmail.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 3/28/03 7:44:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > There is more to a resupply point than simply resupplying.  Personally,
I
> > would walk the approximately 190 miles (including a Whitney sidetrip)
from
> > KM to VVR without going out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply.  That puts
me
> > at VVR.
> >
>
> I agree completely... have been there several times and wouldn't miss it.
> You misunderstand... I simply suggest that it's unnecessary to mail a box
> there since a day and a half's supplies to get to Red's Meadows can easily
be
> obtained there.
>
> No Way
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 34
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:20:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> From: Brad Wilson <BWIL5272@postoffice.uri.edu>
> To: <StoneDancer1@aol.com>, <yogilists@hotmail.com>,
>    <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>
>
>
> Is VVR the White House Landing of the PCT? It sounds like it... It even
> comes with the boat ride!
>
> -Brad
>
> On 3/29/03 9:33 AM, "StoneDancer1@aol.com" <StoneDancer1@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > In a message dated 3/28/03 7:44:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> >> There is more to a resupply point than simply resupplying.  Personally,
I
> >> would walk the approximately 190 miles (including a Whitney sidetrip)
from
> >> KM to VVR without going out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply.  That puts
me
> >> at VVR.
> >>
> >
> > I agree completely... have been there several times and wouldn't miss
it.
> > You misunderstand... I simply suggest that it's unnecessary to mail a
box
> > there since a day and a half's supplies to get to Red's Meadows can
easily be
> > obtained there.
> >
> > No Way
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 35
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@attbi.com>
> To: <StoneDancer1@aol.com>, <yogilists@hotmail.com>,
>    <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:38:33 -0800
>
> Just because you stop at VVR doesn't mean you don't stop at Independence
via
> Kearsage Pass. I recommend you do both. The hike over Kearsage Pass is one
> of the most spectacular on the trek. The views are awesome. And then going
> down into the desert is an adventure in itself. The town is small and
> friendly, too. I wouldn't miss it!
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@attbi.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <StoneDancer1@aol.com>
> To: <yogilists@hotmail.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
>
>
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > In a message dated 3/28/03 7:44:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> > yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > > There is more to a resupply point than simply resupplying.
Personally,
> I
> > > would walk the approximately 190 miles (including a Whitney sidetrip)
> from
> > > KM to VVR without going out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply.  That
puts
> me
> > > at VVR.
> > >
> >
> > I agree completely... have been there several times and wouldn't miss
it.
> > You misunderstand... I simply suggest that it's unnecessary to mail a
box
> > there since a day and a half's supplies to get to Red's Meadows can
easily
> be
> > obtained there.
> >
> > No Way
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 36
> From: Slyatpct@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:42:04 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> To: BWIL5272@postoffice.uri.edu, pct-l@backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 3/29/2003 10:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> BWIL5272@postoffice.uri.edu writes:
>
> > Is VVR the White House Landing of the PCT? It sounds like it... It even
> > comes with the boat ride!
> >
>
> Never been to WHL, it wasn't advertised when I passed through, but after
58
> switchbacks down and a mile of mosquitoeville, you're ready for a boat
ride
> and a beer.  Not only that, it's instant credit.  Sit down have yourself
some
> breakfast, move right on to lunch, take a shower, drink a six pack and
you're
> ready for dinner, another six pack, sleep. Repeat.  After breakfast, maybe
> lunch, take a boatride, stumble on up to Silver Pass, find a flat spot,
eat,
> do some star gazing, crash.  Nice.
>
> Sly
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 37
> From: "yogi hicker" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 09:51:20 -0600
> Subject: [pct-l] Skeeters???
>
>
>
>
> "few mosquitos in the Sierras"????
>
> WOW.  That's not been my experience.  I would DEFINITELY have a bottle of
> DEET when leaving KM.  Tuolumne to Echo Lake is ESPECIALLY bad.
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 38
> From: "yogi hicker" <yogilists@hotmail.com>
> To: m.karon@attbi.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 10:00:54 -0600
>
> I agree, the hike over Kearsarge Pass is beautiful.  I walked that in
2001.
> We ate dinner in Independence, then went up the highway and took a zero
day
> in Bishop, which is also a GREAT town.
>
> Personally, I'd skip the Kearsarge Pass trip the next time because I don't
> want to walk an extra 18 miles off-trail.
>
> yogi
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Marshall Karon" <m.karon@attbi.com>
> To:
>
<StoneDancer1@aol.com>,<yogilists@hotmail.com>,<pct-l@mailman.backcountry.ne
t>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 07:38:33 -0800
>
> Just because you stop at VVR doesn't mean you don't stop at Independence
via
> Kearsage Pass. I recommend you do both. The hike over Kearsage Pass is one
> of the most spectacular on the trek. The views are awesome. And then going
> down into the desert is an adventure in itself. The town is small and
> friendly, too. I wouldn't miss it!
>
> Marshall Karon
> Portland, OR
> m.karon@attbi.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <StoneDancer1@aol.com>
> To: <yogilists@hotmail.com>; <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] yogi's resupply strategy - VVR
>
>
>  > --
>  > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>  > In a message dated 3/28/03 7:44:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>  > yogilists@hotmail.com writes:
>  >
>  > > There is more to a resupply point than simply resupplying.
Personally,
> I
>  > > would walk the approximately 190 miles (including a Whitney sidetrip)
> from
>  > > KM to VVR without going out over Kearsarge Pass to resupply.  That
puts
> me
>  > > at VVR.
>  > >
>  >
>  > I agree completely... have been there several times and wouldn't miss
it.
>  > You misunderstand... I simply suggest that it's unnecessary to mail a
box
>  > there since a day and a half's supplies to get to Red's Meadows can
> easily
> be
>  > obtained there.
>  >
>  > No Way
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > PCT-L mailing list
>  > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
>  > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 39
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 08:14:10 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ben Curtis <cobwebat99@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Skeeters???
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> Listen to Yogi.
>      In early June of 2001, I saw several hikers who
> were planning to hike from KM to VVR bail at Trail
> Pass just to get DEET.  When I'm sorrounded by a huge
> cloud of mosquitos, as I frequently was in the
> Sierras, the toxic effects of DEET aren't a
> consideration.  They're that bad.
>
> -Ben
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
> http://platinum.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 40
> From: Montedodge@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:20:36 EST
> To: pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Border , have a copy of your birth Cert.
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>  Thru-hikers should send away for proper re-entry paper work. Also have a
> copy of your birth cert. and a photo Id. This makes it easy. Last month we
> drove back from Vancover B.C. and border guard wanted a copy of my Birth
> Cert. All I had was my drivers license and he said ," BUT next time". You
can
> make do with a photo ID ,but if border guard is having a bad day, I don't
> want to be pulled into some back room for a cavity search and wait 2 hours
> for your ID to clear.
>    Last year we cruised ( Walked) through small border crossing near
Waterton
> Lake back to East Glacier with no trouble mostly because the guard grew up
20
> miles from PA Jeff and it was like old home week for the guard. Meanwhile
> three hippy gals were having their entire van redecorated by the border
> guards as anything they owned were pitched in the grass and they were
taking
> turns heading for a backroom for further searching. ( Not the way to end a
> hike)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 41
> From: StoneDancer1@aol.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:33:05 EST
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Angels
> To: Thor411@aol.com, pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
>
> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> In a message dated 3/22/03 9:33:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Thor411@aol.com
> writes:
>
> > "Silence is the virtue of fools."
> >              -Francis Bacon, 1600
> >
>
> Like your Bacon quote.... he also said, "Whosever is delighted in solitude
is
> either a wild beast or a god."
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 42
> Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 11:42:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Border , have a copy of your birth Cert.
> From: Brad Wilson <BWIL5272@postoffice.uri.edu>
> To: <Montedodge@aol.com>, <pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net>
>
>
> I have a military ID, which is just as official as any pass port. It
allows
> me entry to military bases, and also serves as my insurance card - I had
it
> with me on my AT hike and will have it on the PCT (b/c it's my insurance
> card).
>
> Does anyone know if this is acceptable ID? It's plastic, so I think it
will
> fare better than a paper certificate.
>
> I can't imagine they would give me any trouble if I had this and my
driver's
> license... But do any of you have experience using this type of card at
> border crossings?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brad
>
> On 3/29/03 11:20 AM, "Montedodge@AOL.COM" <Montedodge@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > Thru-hikers should send away for proper re-entry paper work. Also have a
> > copy of your birth cert. and a photo Id. This makes it easy. Last month
we
> > drove back from Vancover B.C. and border guard wanted a copy of my Birth
> > Cert. All I had was my drivers license and he said ," BUT next time".
You can
> > make do with a photo ID ,but if border guard is having a bad day, I
don't
> > want to be pulled into some back room for a cavity search and wait 2
hours
> > for your ID to clear.
> >  Last year we cruised ( Walked) through small border crossing near
Waterton
> > Lake back to East Glacier with no trouble mostly because the guard grew
up 20
> > miles from PA Jeff and it was like old home week for the guard.
Meanwhile
> > three hippy gals were having their entire van redecorated by the border
> > guards as anything they owned were pitched in the grass and they were
taking
> > turns heading for a backroom for further searching. ( Not the way to end
a
> > hike)
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCT-L mailing list
> > PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCT-L mailing list
> PCT-L@mailman.backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> End of PCT-L Digest