[pct-l] Style vs substance

[goforth@xxxxxxx (Joanne Lennox)]

I and Dave are very much in the same camp.  And my cross body ice ax travel
puts the ice ax head in the right hand and on the downhill side when I
traverse and the steeper slope is on my left (the bottom of the ax is
poking in the snow to my left).  I find this saves a lot of energy for most
snow slopes, and the ax is already is an arrest position.  On two climbs on
which people questioned my technique, both climbs had an incident in which
a person was not able to do a self arrest, and both were injured.

Now you know two people who do not follow your rule.

These two accidents happened after I had gone on group climbs for only 12
occaisions during one year (1998), when I was trying to climb 56 peaks.
When I came home and told my husband about them, he responded: "Well, thank
God you were not roped to them"!  2 in 12 is a pretty bad percentage, so
like Dave I just began to go by myself.

I began to ponder what was different than when I had been climbing with the
same groups before.
In talking to people in 1995, what I found is that most people were
following rules but had no idea of what compromises had been made in making
the rules or the basis for the rules.  For instance a guy looked at my old
long MSR thunderbird ice ax, and said that he had heard they were unsafe. I
was incredulous, but when I asked him why, he couldn't tell me.  So I said,
lets both bury the tip of the  axhead in the snow and try to drag it
through the snow.  Mine had much more drag than his and  and he decided
that he would rather self arrest with mine.   What he did not know was that
it depends onthe snow conditions and at the time, mine was much superior.
But everybody on the climb had an ax that was short and best for steep and
very icey snow, mine was better for the kind of conditions that all the
scramblers on this peak were on 99 percent of the time.  These type of
climbers are never on really steep icey snow, or they decide not to climb
the peak. so why are they using the type of ax that they are using?  I also
wondered whether many of the climbers that I saw who had poor balance, had
never learned to balance on snow and relied too heavily on the iceax.

When I started to climb in 1968, much of the equipment was adapted from
something else(We got big nuts out of Boeing surplus and used them as
climbing chocks, that is the origin of climbing nuts)everything was
untested, there were no standards for saftey equipment.  There was no
equipment or shoes, or boots or anything for women - almost everybody used
army surplus clothing.  We did not care how we looked, or what our
equipment looked like.  We very much did care that our equipment worked and
that we were experienced in using it; and we liked to be in good shape, but
that was not the primary thing.  There were no rules.

On one of the first group climbs in 98, I was amazed to hear a detailed
discussion of almost everybody in the group about how wonderful various
Gortex jackets of various manufacturers were.  It started out when one
person said"gee, is that a such and such jacket from such and such".
Over the years, I have found that Goretex doesn't hold up for me.  A little
dirt and a little hard use and it still is a good windbreaker but that is
it. The discussion was about colors, not design, about the pockets, not the
fabric.

I have been on a couple long trips where the most well conditioned people
in the group had to be sent out because they could not handle the terrrain
cross country.

The conclusion I have come to is that many people believe that because they
are in shape and they have the best equipment, and they know the rules,
they will be safe in the mountains.  If I look like a mountaineer and talk
like a mountaineer, that then I am a mountaineer.  These people are a
hazard to themselves and those that they climb and travel with. Experience
matters, and sooner or later experience catches up with people that have
lots of style and no substance.  The mountains are not always kind to those
that love them.

Joanne







> Date: Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:19 PM
>
>
> In a message dated 2/15/03 7:12:00 PM, mgeis@yahoo.com writes:
>
> <<  it's a matter of personal
> preference, but I've *never* met an experienced
> mountaineer who carries his or her axe on the downhill
> side. >>
>
> Well, you have met one now. The correct quote was that I preferred using
an
> ice ax on the downhill side on moderate slopes with a safe runout. I
> developed this preference after many, many hundreds of climbs involving
snow
> travel, and lots of it.
>    Moreover I assisted in a mountaineering class for some 18 years,
leading
> many climbs including Rainier. Is that enough experience to say that it
is
> perfectly okay to hold the ice ax on the downhill side when conditions
> warrant it? If there is anything I hate it is following a set of rules
when
> mountaineering. One reason I go solo is to avoid those Mountaineer types
who
> are forever proclamating "Thou shalt not ----" How refreshing to be able
to
> do it MY way, making my OWN decisions based on MY experirence and
knowledge,
> with no one to blame for success but myself. I am addicted to cross
country
> climbs in the Olympics, tossing the guide book and just figuring out the
> routes on my own. The feeling of meaningless accomplishment is quite
> satisfying. But before you label me a loner, know that I go on most
BACKPACKS
> with other people where the goals are not as intense. I like a balance
>     Paul Petzdolt once said about mountaineering, "No matter how careful
you
> are sooner or later you will throw snake eyes." The key word is careful.
One
> can blindly follow all the rules one wishes but it won't make any
difference
> once that day comes-and it certainly will-when the rules betray you and
you
> MUST improvise. And if you haven't learned to improvise you are at a
distinct
> disadvantage. I have no respect for the fantasy that routine provides
safety.
> In fact, I feel it allows for creeping complacency
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