[pct-l] new cheap bear can

[reynolds@iLAN.com (Reynolds, WT)]

The reason why bears bite into liquid fuel bottles that are certainly
hermetically sealed is because they know containers contain food. You might
possibly bury a sealed can or submerge it if you could weight it properly.

However....no way is Joe average hiker going to use your approach
successfully. One STRENGTH of the conventional BC is that you keep the food
safe AND accesible. If it's closed it can be right next to the stove.

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Calliger [mailto:calliger@infolane.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 11:58 AM
To: Bruce Warren; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] new cheap bear can


U still don't get it..u can't hide it!! In a pack? tent? bury it?
in a stream? up a tree? ....hermitically sealed or not..they will
find it..u can't be absolutely sterile...that is **the point**..

I beieve the freeze-dried food from REI, et al, is also hermitcally
sealed...get it now? they know itand will rip open a pack to get
at them...I have had over 20 bear encounters..they are now
almost totally relentless..I defend my food (hermitically sealed)\
for 3 hours from 3am to 6am one day...they know what is where just
because humans are associated with goodies..  my judgements are not hasty!

and now I have a bunch of tin cans to pack out...geezzsss...

think outside the box!
that's all I have to say on the subject..good luck to u.

R

At 12:55 PM 11/9/02 -0600, Bruce Warren wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--
>[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>Richard,
>
>As a fellow engineer, I think you are still being hasty in your analytical
thinking. You say: "THE **point**  is that the bears in Yosemite have
learned that cans contain food even if they cannot smell it." I agree. But
so what? If they cannot see it AND cannot smell it, they would have to have
ESP to find the food. My premise is that if you hermetically seal up the
food, AND hide it, you got the problem licked. Or maybe it's like that
'backcountry legend' I just read about where that Yosemite bear is so dang
smart he rips open the hikers stomach to get the steak he just ate?
>
>I have a lot of respect for any animal that can learn to ride a bicycle...
but bears possess no ESP. Sure a bag of groceries is a big flag to a
conditioned bear that food is inside.  But other treads I have read here
relate incidences of bears now ignoring bear canisters, having learned it's
futile.
>
>A hidden can that leaks no odor molecules will not be found by a bear or an
ant, that was proven by my New Mexico experiments, even when the can was not
washed. It is true that the can may have traces of food on it from handling.
If that worries you, just wash it off after dinner each night. But this is
not a valid concern, if it was, bears would be eating the faces and fingers
and shirts right off many hikers every night.
>
>My premise for the field testing that I am seeking, is that bears and other
animals are not irrational food seekers, going after the slightest hint of
food. Their highly refined sense of smell is quite capable of calculating
how many calories will be available from the intensity of the odor. They are
not going to waste energy seeking out a few milligrams of food. I want field
testing to prove that if your stealth can is under your tarp or in your
tent, no bear, or chipmunk, or marmot, or mouse, or ant will ever detect its
presence.
>It's totally proven in Texas, but we have no bears (thankfully).
>
>As to the post about old paint cans drying out, I cannot argue that this
does not happen with old paint cans. But just the opposite caused me to try
this style of can for food. I had a 25 year old can of latex paint that had
never been opened. Upon opening it, the paint was in perfect condition. I
have stealth cans that have been used for 6 months by abusive boy scouts and
they still seal gas tight. I do modify the seal areas of the can and lid
with a special epoxy compound to make it more durable. But I do advise that
you blow or brush any big crud out of the seal area before pushing it
together or you may have a non-hermetic seal. Just like you try to keep the
crud out of your telescoping hiking poles, or your Leatherman.
>
>But, I want some more real-world testing to validate my design premises, so
why not try one (for free) rather than make hasty judgements?
>
>Happy Hiking,
>
>Bruce Warren, P.E.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sorry..as an engineer I analyzed your design idea and commented becasue I
>certainly >>>did not<<< miss the whole point. First, I did not
>say the cans were laying on a picnic table, they were in a grocery
>bag out of sight apparently due to the remnants of the bag laying around.
>
>THE **point**  is that the bears in Yosemite have learned that cans contain
>food even if they cannot smell it. They have learned to associate can
>containers with food..for whatever reason, they now know, and have passed
>that onto their cubs. It will take a generation to break the cycle;
however,
>that genration has not yet occured!
>
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>

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