[pct-l] Point of this List

[spiritbear2k@hotmail.com (Ginny & Jim Owen)]

Marge - and Tom - and Charlie -
I'll hit a couple points here, the first being that I have no intention of 
taking this "off-line".  But hang in there, Charlie - and I'll try to expain 
why.

For Tom - hi, it's nice to hear your voice again.  I used the words "long 
distance hiking" because that's "mostly" what this list seems to have become 
- as opposed to "thruhiking".  Not entirely, but "mostly". And, unless 
you've changed your style, you too are a "long distance hiker" :-)

And for Marge ---
For me, the issue is no longer Linda - or recipes.  Hasn't been for a long 
time.  It's become "what's the purpose of this list?".  It's become "why is 
one person - or a small group of people - making decisions about what's 
acceptable to post here? ".  It's become "if I don't have the freedom to 
post what I want to talk about here, then why am I here at all?"  It's 
become "if I can't trust the people on this list to respect what I have to 
say, then this list and these people aren't worth my time and effort".

Yeah - Brick has the final word on what's acceptable, but the list itself 
has the power to determine whether or not some things are acceptable 
subjects for discussion, acceptable topics to post.  On at-l, guns, cell 
phones and umbrellas were verboten for a long time.  But I don't and won't 
accept that - and I finally broke that taboo a couple weeks ago.  I'm not 
interested in seeing that kind of taboo instituted here - not about recipes 
or anything else.  I'm not interested in seeing a small minority of list 
members "censor" what's acceptable on this list.  And what I've seen here 
over the last couple weeks has been a form of "censorship by harassment".  
I've seen it before on other lists and it never fails to piss me off.

Before we go any further, let's define "harassment".  It's one thing to 
object to something that someone posts - even recipes.  Once is objecting - 
maybe even twice - but after that it becomes whining.  And after that - it's 
simple harassment.  If you don't like what's being posted, there are 
solutions.  Use them.  Or shut up.

In the latest case, the simplest solution would have been to block the 
recipe poster.  Or to use the Delete key.  Or to simply not read them.  
Those are actions that are within the power of each and every member of this 
list.  If anyone chooses to not use them, then that's a personal decision 
and a personal problem - and they have no business whining to the list about 
it.

One more point here - don't anyone come on to me with the idea that you're 
on 6 different lists and you're being "flooded" with messages - of any type. 
  If you're on that many lists, then you've implicitly accepted that this 
kind "message overload" is one of the hazards. If you don't like it, then 
get off the lists or use a filter or use the Delete key, but don't whine to 
me about it and don't harass other list members. I AM on that many lists - I 
have the same problem - and I have enough of a personal sense of 
responsibility that I'll handle the problem myself - without harassing 
others, and without being destructive to the lists.

Onward -

The kind of thing that happened here is something that has the potential to 
impose a very large negative effect on this list.  And the process is very 
simple - someone doesn't like what's being posted (recipes?), so they harass 
the other posters until the (recipes?) stop.  Then no one on the list wants 
to post recipes because they don't want to be the object of that kind of 
harassment.  Then it happens again, this time maybe about how they like 
their 6# boots - anyone remember when Monte was gonna get off the list 
because of that kind of harassment? And again - maybe about how ultralight 
isn't the only (or ultimate) way to hike - and again maybe about how running 
shoes don't work for "everyone" - and again about (pick your own BS topic).  
And eventually no one has the "freedom" to post anything except (as Charlie 
said) tell us about your hikes.  And even that becomes suspect because you 
can't trust the others on the list to respect anything but the bare facts - 
where, when, weather, etc.  Feelings, emotions, spirituality - the important 
things in life - can only be expressed in places where they'll be respected, 
where the members of the list aren't harassed by others who don't want to 
hear what they have to say.  And if we can't post about recipes or the 
negative sides of ultralite, then what makes anyone think the list as a 
whole can be trusted to respect the important parts of what each of us have 
to say?  If it gets to that point, then the list is sterile and well on the 
way to being dead.

Is that what y'all want this list to become - strictly meat and potatoes - 
no frills - no fuzzy stuff - nothing but what pertains directly to when, 
where, how and what to carry - but forget the WHY?  I thought better of this 
list - but I've been wrong before, maybe I am again.

I need an answer, cause if that's what y'all want, I'm wasting my time here. 
  And so are you.

And finally - for Rich --- I have respected what you've had to say in the 
past.  And I will again.  But on this subject I disagree completely with 
your attitude and approach.  Writing this has been painful for me but I've 
seen the results of what you've tried to do in other places, on other lists. 
  And if it's in my power, I won't just stand by and allow the same things 
to happen here.  I care more for this list and these people than that.

Walk softly,
Jim

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com