[pct-l] Menstrual cycle LNT issues

[charliethorpe@att.net (Charlie Thorpe)]

Hello All -

Christine said:

> ...and if you're carrying out your used t.p. the way you should be
> (and, btw, where are all the leave-no-trace-ers this year?) a few wrapped
> used tampons in a ziploc really shouldn't be a problem.  On a thru hike or
> even a long section hike, hygiene is compromised - especially in the dry
> sections <G> and something like the "cup" would be, um, icky to deal with.
> Also, speaking of the leave-no-trace stuff - you'd have to dig a cat-hole to
> dispose of the -er - fluids.  Then clean it somehow...

Thanks, Christine, for shaking the LNT tree.  This a LNT topic that affects
a lot of hikers and WAY too often isn't discussed thoroughly enough.  I have
already learned more about this subject during this interesting thread than
I have in my last eight years as a LNT trainer.

There was a time when many folks thought that this issue presented enough of
a problem to justify teaching our daughters to stay out of some backcountry
areas completely.  I think that many thousands of female user-days in the
woods have proven that exclusion isn't the answer.  BUT...I don't think that
hiding our heads in the sand is the answer, either.

The LNT party line has been to double/triple bag a tampon/pad and put it in
with the other garbage being packed out.  Help to minimize odor by crushing
a couple of aspirins or tearing open a used tea bag and sprinkling the
powder or leaves on the used tampon or pad.  Put it into whatever garbage
collection system is available when you get back to civilization.

I have been uncomfortable with this advice in some situations.  Much of the
menstrual flow is blood...and there are locations in the backcountry where
blood might become more of a critter magnet than I would like to see a
friend pack around.  I sat up in a tree one time in Alaska and watched a
brownie completely shred a boot that had a splash of moose blood on it.  The
other boot had plenty of interesting smells on it, but no blood...the bear
left it completely alone.

I teach to pack all garbage out - including anything involved with blood
(tampons, pads, bandages, game cleaning rags, etc.)...unless there is
genuine reason for concern that there might be a critter around which is a
link higher on the food chain than you.

My personal prejudice would have me ALWAYS put grizzly, brown (yeah, I
know), and polar bears at least a couple links above me.  Most of the time,
I would not put black bears in this category unless there were indications
that a particular bear might be exhibiting unusual predatory behavior
towards humans in a particular area.  I honestly don't know enough about
mountain lions to know if they are attracted to blood enough to overcome
their skittishness around humans.

If I found myself to be the low man on the food chain, I would bite the LNT
bullet and build a fire to try to completely consume any bloody item in my
possession.  A mound twiggy fire could do the job with a minimum of impact,
but it would take a LOT of flipping and stirring (and twigs!) to completely
burn a moist bloody item.

When I was a newby outdoorsman in the '50's, my female friends and I were
taught that the ladies should stay out of the woods during their period OR
pack reliable protection.  It was assumed that there simply was no way that
they could keep from smelling like blood to a critter that might be very
attracted to it...and whose sense of smell ranged from a thousand to a
million times better than ours.

A number of my younger friends who are very experienced in a wide variety of
outdoor adventure sports (including thru-hiking) no longer feel concerned
about this particular safety issue.  All of my older friends (male and
female) with similar or more experience still are.

If my daughter had hiked the PCT with me instead of my son, I would have
cheerfully taken my turn packing out the garbage - tampons included.  My
understanding is that for most of the time in most locations along the PCT,
black bears tend to exhibit simple opportunistic scavenging rather than
predatory behaviors.

IMHO, all bets are off in "bear alley" in the Sierras and in Castle Craigs
SP...we have created a completely unpredictable situation in those locations
by our willingness to train generations of bears to come to humans for
handouts.  These bears are semi-domesticated and bears ain't famous for
making good pets.  I made a point of asking the managing agency folks about
possible "bad bears" in both areas and was almost careful enough with bear
protections to keep from having any problems in either location.

Using and reusing a menstrual cup is new to me.  I am assuming that the LNT
issues here are twofold:

what do we do with the liquid menstrual flow caught by the cup; and

How do we clean the cup as it is reused from day to day.

The cleaning seems to be the easiest as we can go with the usual "LNT way" -
use as little as possible of as biodegradable a soap as possible and keep
all gray water (sloshes included) well away from the water supply (200 feet
or more!).  Either pack out the gray water or dilute it as much as possible
and broadcast it WIDELY over as large an area as possible that is at least
200 feet from the water supply.

AFAIK, there is little medical problem associated with coming into contact
with another human's menstrual flow (other than a rare possibility of HIV).
Again AFAIK, washing the cup with soap and broadcasting the gray water well
away from the water hole should allow the UV to kill the few pathogens which
might survive the soap.

It would be very interesting to get a reading on the possible pathogen
content of menstrual flow from some of the medical folks on the list.  The
degree of biohazard associated with it directly affects the disposal
practices of the liquid from the cup.

A cathole is not designed to be a method of garbage disposal - good LNT
practice would have us pack ALL garbage out for disposal at home.  A cathole
is really just a poor attempt to strike a balance between the alternatives
of leaving a significant biohazard laying around (good way to kill each
other) and packing it out with our garbage (most folks ain't willing to look
at crap as garbage yet).

We dig a cathole to protect other humans from direct contact with the
biohazard and to keep it from washing into the water supply.  We keep the
cathole shallow in an effort to allow the gazillions of itty-bitty
crap-eating critters in the organic layer of soil to transform the biohazard
into benign dirt.  

Many catholes get dug up by coyotes or some such because they consider human
feces to be food.  The digging inevitably results in exposed pathogens
laying around the dig.  I teach the "poop soup" cathole technique in an
effort to reduce the chance of it getting dug up (and in an effort to speed
up the decomposition of the whole mess and as a way to keep from having to
pack feces-covered TP out).

Placing human blood into a cathole should make it attractive to an even
wider range of critters.  I would guess that catholes with blood in them
would always get dug up.  I wonder if putting blood into a cathole would
possibly add pathogens that wouldn't already have been present in that
person's feces?

I would be tempted to suggest that liquid from a menstrual cup should be
diluted as much as possible into soapy water and broadcast widely with that
gray water (LNT guidelines!).  I would think that UV would do a better job
of eliminating possible pathogens than a dug-up cathole would.

Hmmmm....obviously I don't have enough info about the tradeoffs associated
with the various possible pathogens to have a clue!  Any medical help out
there?

BTW, my daughter has been an athlete -in-training and is in the military -
she has gone for fairly extended times (multiple months) with no menstrual
cycle with no apparent ill-effects.

Thanks for being willing to discuss an important topic!

Trace No Leaves,

- Charlie II    AT ME-GA'93
               PCT Mex@Can'95
           Chipping away at the CDT