Re: [pct-l] Re: Defiant rancher once more loses grazing case, maynow go to jail

I had the pleasure of visiting the Jefferson monument again in DC 3 weeks ago.
I'm always awed by Jefferson and his writings. We could argue extensively about
what Jefferson believed and meant. I've seen his writing quoted to support all
sides of arguments. Unfortunately he is not here to reply for himself.

However, the term Judeo-Christian means Christian. It was first coined by the
German Lutheran clergy in the early 19th century to describe a fundamentally
Christian experience. Jews, Christians, and Muslims do not worship the same God.
Christianity and Islam both root their beliefs in Judaism, but no longer believe
or worship the same.  You can argue that these religions are even further
divided and argue amongst themselves about God - who & what.

I don't have the exact breakdown at my fingertips, but 90% of the US is not
Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.  It's more like 75%. There are lots of Hindus,
Buddists, Native Americans, Shintoists, pagans, etc, not to mention the random
athiest and just plain diest.

And of course negotiation/brute force can take away anything. It may not be able
to remove a person's "right" to live, but it can take away a person's life.

Katt

"Reynolds, WT" wrote:

> In fact I was paraphrasing the Declaration of Independence. The God
> refrences of the Declaration of Independence was the Judo/Christian/Moslem
> God believed in by 90% of Americans now and probably more back then. Thomas
> Jefferson was a diest. He believed that God did not intervien in human
> affairs but that humankind [mankind back then] was responsible for their
> [his back then] actions to Him.
>
> The point of Jefferson's writing is that "negotiation and/or brute power" as
> you so aptly put it, cannaot take away what God endows. In subsequent
> writings, Jefferson wrote that once we lose our belief in GOD we will lose
> our rights.
>
> Eh!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elizabeth A. Foshion [mailto:foshione@dteenergy.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 11:47 AM
> To: Reynolds, WT
> Cc: 'Ronald Moak'; 'R.J.Calliger'; pct-l@edina.hack.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Re: Defiant rancher once more loses grazing case,
> maynow go to jail
>
> I've got to disagree with the "self evidently endowed by God" part of that.
> Anywhere, any time people lived in communities of 2 or more - right back to
> caves, negotiation and/or brute power determined rights. And considering the
> vast sweep of human history and religious practice - I also have to ask
> which
> God?
>
> Katt
>
> "Reynolds, WT" wrote:
>
> > Yep I agree...sadly. Rights used to be selfevidently endowed by God but
> not
> > anymore. Now they are a product of human negotiation and, as such, subject
> > to modification. My point is Stop arguing about your rights and take the
> > wilderness. My weapon? Money!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ronald Moak [mailto:ronm@fallingwater.com]
> > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2000 11:29 AM
> > To: 'Reynolds, WT'; 'R.J.Calliger'; 'Elizabeth A. Foshion';
> > pct-l@edina.hack.net
> > Subject: RE: [pct-l] Re: Defiant rancher once more loses grazing case,
> > may now go to jail
> >
> > You guys seem to talk about "Rights" as if they were somehow indelible.
> The
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