From pctl at oakapple.net Wed Jun 8 11:41:55 2022 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 09:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] section D this weekend Message-ID: <202206081641.258GftIZ007771@server-f.oakapple.net> I've been looking at western section D, from about Mill Creek Summit to Agua Dulce, as a series of car shuttle dayhikes - so no water worries. Maybe further east as far as Cloudburst Summit. I can't find any negative information on the PCTA website about trail conditions or closures. East of Cloudburst there are the several bad choices involving the frog closure. So I'm not going there. There are major heat issues over the weekend - so I plan to stay at the higher elevations, then drop from North Fork to Agua Dulce when it cools off. Anybody have any recent information positive or negative? David Hough From JimLBanks at verizon.net Wed Jun 8 21:25:05 2022 From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (JimLBanks at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2022 19:25:05 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] section D this weekend In-Reply-To: <202206081641.258GftIZ007771@server-f.oakapple.net> References: <202206081641.258GftIZ007771@server-f.oakapple.net> Message-ID: <000201d87ba8$22a6d270$67f47750$@verizon.net> David, I don't have any specific information for you, but you might try asking Jim Richter. He is the Trail Gorillas' section chief for that section. His contact information is TrailGorillasoftheANF at gmail.com Trail maintainers are usually the best source of actual trail conditions. The section I work on: Splinter's Cabin to Inspiration Point is in good shape except for some parts of Deep Creek. Have fun. I-Beam -----Original Message----- From: Pct-L On Behalf Of David Hough reading PCT-L Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 9:42 AM To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] section D this weekend I've been looking at western section D, from about Mill Creek Summit to Agua Dulce, as a series of car shuttle dayhikes - so no water worries. Maybe further east as far as Cloudburst Summit. I can't find any negative information on the PCTA website about trail conditions or closures. East of Cloudburst there are the several bad choices involving the frog closure. So I'm not going there. There are major heat issues over the weekend - so I plan to stay at the higher elevations, then drop from North Fork to Agua Dulce when it cools off. Anybody have any recent information positive or negative? David Hough _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From pctl at oakapple.net Sun Jun 12 08:39:17 2022 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 06:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] a hot time at the end of section D Message-ID: <202206121339.25CDdHvM001417@server-f.oakapple.net> The high was probably 100 in Soledad Canyon yesterday, and I am still rehydrating - even beer seems less attractive than tap water. However it was more comfortable 80's most of the day starting from about half a mile west of Messenger Flats. It was only four miles to North Fork but already it seemed like an oasis - drinking water that wasn't too hot to drink! Tables with shade and a breeze! A pit toilet! One can only imagine how much more inviting to through hikers - we saw one at Soledad Canyon in the morning and three setting out from the KOA in the evening as it cooled off. The trail was in pretty good shape - a little brush overgrowing here, a little slipsliding of trail there - nothing blocking to equestrians. The Indian Canyon road was gated closed at Soledad Canyon, and the approach from the ridge was gated closed near our start point. The ridge road was easily passable by ordinary cars, and still paved in places. Cooler today, and more cooling tomorrow. David Hough From jodyinjc at yahoo.com Sun Jun 12 11:42:37 2022 From: jodyinjc at yahoo.com (jody boyles) Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 09:42:37 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] a hot time at the end of section D In-Reply-To: <202206121339.25CDdHvM001417@server-f.oakapple.net> References: <202206121339.25CDdHvM001417@server-f.oakapple.net> Message-ID: <2A45E3C9-7B8E-49D2-ACD9-332B55EFADEF@yahoo.com> Nice to hear from someone on here ? Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 12, 2022, at 7:56 AM, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote: > > ? > > The high was probably 100 in Soledad Canyon yesterday, and I am still > rehydrating - even beer seems less attractive than tap water. > > However it was more comfortable 80's most of the day starting from about > half a mile west of Messenger Flats. It was only four miles to North Fork > but already it seemed like an oasis - drinking water that wasn't too hot > to drink! Tables with shade and a breeze! A pit toilet! One can > only imagine how much more inviting to through hikers - we saw one at > Soledad Canyon in the morning and three setting out from the KOA in the > evening as it cooled off. > > The trail was in pretty good shape - a little brush overgrowing here, a little > slipsliding of trail there - nothing blocking to equestrians. > The Indian Canyon road was gated closed at Soledad Canyon, and the approach > from the ridge was gated closed near our start point. > > The ridge road was easily passable by ordinary cars, and still paved in places. > > Cooler today, and more cooling tomorrow. > > David Hough > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From pctl at oakapple.net Mon Jun 13 08:29:11 2022 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 06:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] more hot dry miles in western section D Message-ID: <202206131329.25DDTBNX016639@server-f.oakapple.net> Continuing from the day before, walked from 4N24 to Moody Canyon Road. No water on the trail. Messenger Flats Campground was open with nice breezy picnic tables and a vault toilet, even bearproof garbage cans - but no water. The spigots were removed and the pipe capped many years ago I think. Passed by one through hiker who was thrilled to be assured that there was water at North Fork. Trail conditions were pretty good up until the high point on Mount Gleason. There was one tree down that would probably not block stock but the stock would undercut the trail even worse than the hikers bypassing the tree on the downhill side. Max diameter about 12". A short stroll from the Mt Gleason Road at the saddle between the Nike site hill and Mt Gleason, two trail miles east of road 4N24. >From the high point on Mt Gleason down to Moody Canyon Road, the brush is working hard to overgrow the trail, just as it has been since the trail was built. There were several trees across the trail, passable to stock. And there is one big rock that has fallen across the trail, about a third of the way from Messenger Flats to Moody Canyon Road. It might be passable to determined stock, but I wouldn't want to be riding. Something like 2 ft by 2 ft by 5 ft long. David Hough From fowlertg at yahoo.com Mon Jun 13 12:29:44 2022 From: fowlertg at yahoo.com (Theresa Gookin) Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 10:29:44 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Hello References: <73DE5039-E911-4B51-B722-565023F09DBE.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <73DE5039-E911-4B51-B722-565023F09DBE@yahoo.com> Can you remove me from this mailing I can?t seem to figure out how to do it thank you From pctl at oakapple.net Tue Jun 14 07:49:26 2022 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 05:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] section D - Mill Creek Summit to road 4N24 Message-ID: <202206141249.25ECnQxZ012163@server-f.oakapple.net> This portion seems less steep to hike than to drive up the Mount Gleason Road which is never very far away. The usual brush and sideslipping, which sometimes look related - uphill brush encroaching tends to push hikers to the downhill side of the tread, which eventually loosens and slips. The loose soil here doesn't help. No equestrian obstacles on the portion. No water either. Three through hikers passed us. There was a brightly uniformed group of young people starting in the other direction doing trail maintenance apparently. To summarize the last three days, the water sources are the Mill Creek Summit fire station, North Fork ranger station, and the KOA on Soledad Canyon. David Hough From traveler11 at charter.net Tue Jun 14 20:12:43 2022 From: traveler11 at charter.net (Robert) Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:12:43 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Dixie fire area Message-ID: Has anyone been through bucks lake to old station . Pct website suggest might be worth going around. My brother is close to this area and texted me asking for info. Thanks for any insight Sent from my iPhone From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Tue Jun 14 23:23:15 2022 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 04:23:15 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Triple Crown and all finishing certificates and medals Message-ID: ? ? ?To the hiker community Just a reminder to anybody that might be listening. It?s hard to imagine that anyone does not understand the standard for a hike of any of the trails and the Triple Crown but I have discovered from talking to hundreds of hikers that each year strange ideas get into hiker?s brains and then those ideas get passed around as though they are the truth. Any forward movement by vehicle ,instead of walking ,on any of the trails does not constitute a continuous footpath. It does not matter what your reason is. There is only one very low bar ?-a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. You can take one year or forty to accomplish that goal. You aren?t getting a participation medal. No one is owed a Triple Crown. You earn it. That could mean a section of any of the trails might be closed in the year that you do it. This year on the CDT 200 miles of New Mexico were recently closed because of extreme fire danger and most likely Yellowstone will be closed because of a devastating flood. Many times that means taking an alternative trail route, a dirt or even a paved road. I?ve walked my share of paved roads. Sometimes it was because I was required to and sometimes it was around a fire or the only way I could be sure there was water. The logical and expected behavior is to hike the alternative or if you skip (hitch)it ,go back later and hike that section. You must do that before you apply for a finishing medal or certificate from the trail organizations. Especially do that before you apply for a Triple Crown. On the ALDHAWEST website it states the criteria. It also states that most hikers are honest. Unfortunately, after hearing endless rationalizations by hikers of why they skip(hitch by vehicle ) sections, I?m beginning to doubt that ?most hikers are honest ?. I think that some hikers are honest. I have heard the most bizarre stories of why it is ok that they lie when applying for a Triple Crown. And it is a lie, because if they know that if they told the truth the TC coordinator or the board would say ?that?s nice, now go out and finish the trail and then apply?. In the last 5-6 years I have been out on all the big three. As a part of an outreach, I invite every hiker I meet to the Gathering. For that reason many people start telling me how many hikers they know who have lied about accomplishing the Triple Crown. That just adds to my own observations and listened to excuses from hikers about deserving a TC without actually earning one. One couple that I ran into on the CDT recently gave the excuse that they had done what they called ?extra miles? around a fire closure so that it was ok that they hitched. They hitched a 16 mile road walk?about 4-5 hours of hiking Are you joking!! As we all know sometimes it is necessary to do 20-30-40 extra miles to get through some alternative pass because of avalanche or white-out or injury or fire or flood or even lack of water. I?ve certainly done that. I have no idea how many miles I did on the CDT the first time because I was constantly having to regroup ,look at maps again and get back on trail after rerouting myself around some impediment. Or,once again I was just lost and trying find my way back to the route. Twice that meant an over 40 mile detour. And those were not the only detours that I did and had to then walk myself back to the route. You still have to connect the footprints. That?s just the way it is. No excuses that you need to catch up with your friends or your feet hurt or it?s too hot or you just don?t want to. I?m guessing I can trust that the first 50-200 people on the TC list really earned it. It was after that point I started to hear the stories about people who were on the list who lied. Before that it?s probably trustworthy because it?s hard to hide cheating behavior if everyone knows you and they wonder how you got to town so fast. Some people who applied in the past were asked to describe their hike and thankfully a number of them just disappeared with their phony applications. After that time ,unfortunately,I?ve started to have my doubts. Isn?t that sad and pathetic. I?ve lost my trust in hiker?s honesty,because of how many people ,with no shame,have told me what they did (skipped by vehicle)or I have observed it myself. Recently there has developed a view on the AT that since the AT rocker says 2,000 miles then a hiker is allowed to skip 192 miles and still say that they hiked the whole trail. I heard numerous hikers say this over a three year period. I guess it just too difficult for them to honestly hike the whole trail. They do not seem to be embarrassed about talking about their intent to cheat and lie about it. You can do whatever you want on any trail. Please do. That is exactly the point of ?hike your own hike?. No one cares. The only problem arises when you attempt to take credit for something you did not do. Very soon people will start applying for their Triple Crown Awards. Please do not apply for a Triple Crown unless you have a continuous footpath on the AT, PCT and the CDT. The important word is footpath. It is the minimum and only standard. It is on your honor. Pass this around. Thank you for listening Marmot Sent from my iPhone From pctl at oakapple.net Wed Jun 15 08:28:00 2022 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:28:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] section D Vasquez Rocks to Soledad Canyon Message-ID: <202206151328.25FDS01O025049@server-f.oakapple.net> To finish my report on western section D report I went southbound. Trail conditions were the usual for sec D, and no obstacles blocking stock. I managed to not find the PCT until I got to the Pepper Tree, but enjoyed the walk through the iconic rocks. Surprisingly, water crossed the trail twice in Escondido Canyon. The first flow that northbound hikers encounter is much the better. The tunnel under the freeway from desert to oasis is always amazing. There was water in the Santa Clara "River" and bits of logs to step across. But the LA RV Resort, or Action Camp, which used to be a KOA, is nearby and lots of hikers rehydrated there. There were a couple dozen on the trail this day. https://larvresort.com/ That was all the water on the trail. At Vasquez Rocks, water is only available inside the vistor center when the visitor center is open https://parks.lacounty.gov/vasquez-rocks-natural-area-and-nature-center/ That's 8am to 7:30pm except Monday, but it seemed to be closed Tuesday June 14 as well. Soledad Canyon is not quite the armpit of the PCT that I remembered from 15 years ago - it was not hard to follow the trail. The PCT completion monument is still there - right next to the railroad track. Why didn't they put the monument someplace appropriate, like near the midpoint, say at the Feather River Bridge? Because the dignitaries would not have survived the hike to the ceremony. That's enough 90-degree weather for me. If I get another chance for a trip, it will be to finish section J. To finish M and N I need to get from Buck Meadows to Humbug Summit, but that area seems to burn every year and it's got to be a challenge at best. Belden Town still seems to be there https://beldentown.com/ but it's for sale. David Hough From gary at hbfun.org Wed Jun 15 14:10:58 2022 From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org) Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 12:10:58 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] section D Vasquez Rocks to Soledad Canyon In-Reply-To: <202206151328.25FDS01O025049@server-f.oakapple.net> References: <202206151328.25FDS01O025049@server-f.oakapple.net> Message-ID: <2ed8d9e79828e52bc1d01972a0ec1ff1@hbfun.org> Armpit? Depends on the time of year. In March that area and section E are quite nice. Not Too Appealing On 2022-06-15 06:28, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote: > To finish my report on western section D report I went southbound. > Trail conditions were the > usual for sec D, and no obstacles blocking stock. > I managed to not find the PCT > until I got to the Pepper Tree, but enjoyed the walk through the iconic > rocks. > > Surprisingly, water crossed the trail twice in Escondido Canyon. The > first flow that northbound hikers encounter is much the better. > The tunnel under the freeway from desert to oasis is always amazing. > > There was water in the Santa Clara "River" and bits of logs to step > across. > But the LA RV Resort, or Action Camp, which used to be a KOA, is nearby > and lots of hikers rehydrated there. There were a couple dozen on > the > trail this day. > > https://larvresort.com/ > > That was all the water on the trail. At Vasquez Rocks, water is only > available inside the vistor center when the visitor center is open > > https://parks.lacounty.gov/vasquez-rocks-natural-area-and-nature-center/ > > That's 8am to 7:30pm except Monday, but it seemed to be closed Tuesday > June 14 as well. > > Soledad Canyon is not quite the armpit of the PCT that I remembered > from > 15 years ago - it was not hard to follow the trail. > > The PCT completion monument is still there - right next to the railroad > track. > Why didn't they > put the monument someplace appropriate, like near the midpoint, say at > the > Feather River Bridge? Because the dignitaries would not have survived > the hike > to the ceremony. > > That's enough 90-degree weather for me. If I get another chance for > a > trip, it will be to finish section J. > > To finish M and N I need to get from Buck Meadows to Humbug Summit, but > that area seems to burn every year and it's got to be a challenge at > best. > Belden Town still seems to be there > > https://beldentown.com/ > > but it's for sale. > > David Hough > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From pctl at marcusschwartz.com Fri Jun 17 00:22:55 2022 From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food) Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 22:22:55 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Permethrin from livestock supply stores Message-ID: A while back (7 or 8 years maybe?) I remember reading on this list a recommendation to treat clothes with permethrin, not with the Sawyer products from hiking stores, but with permethrin from a livestock supply store. The reason being, the livestock supply store will sell a quart of 10% permethrin for about $15, while a hiking store will sell a pint of 0.5% permethrin for about the same price. So it's 40x cheaper if you dilute the 10% solution yourself. Has anybody here used this method, and if so, are there particular brands I should look for? I've looked a bit on Amazon, and some of the Q&A there says that some brands are not formulated to stick to clothes, or will stain, or will retain a strong smell, so I'm not sure what I should use. Thanks, -=Town Food From pambryant58 at gmail.com Fri Jun 17 11:26:53 2022 From: pambryant58 at gmail.com (Pamela Bryant) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 09:26:53 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Permethrin from livestock supply stores In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Town Food, I bought a Durvet (brand) from a feed store (undiluted) Permethrin 10% 8 ozs for $8.99 about 7 years ago. The container is still full! The people at the store were very helpful with all of my questions. I used up the spray bottle from REI Sawyer brand 12 oz and used the empty bottle. The tricky part for me was getting the ratio to water and the Permethrin. You want it to be odorless on your clothes. While it is wet it is caustic to cats. So be careful. Once dried it is safe for cats. The one year I did not treat my clothes, hat, gloves, etc. I was bombarded with mosquitoes and flies!! On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 10:23 PM Town Food wrote: > A while back (7 or 8 years maybe?) I remember reading on this list a > recommendation to treat clothes with permethrin, not with the Sawyer > products from hiking stores, but with permethrin from a livestock supply > store. The reason being, the livestock supply store will sell a quart > of 10% permethrin for about $15, while a hiking store will sell a pint > of 0.5% permethrin for about the same price. So it's 40x cheaper if you > dilute the 10% solution yourself. > > Has anybody here used this method, and if so, are there particular > brands I should look for? I've looked a bit on Amazon, and some of the > Q&A there says that some brands are not formulated to stick to clothes, > or will stain, or will retain a strong smell, so I'm not sure what I > should use. > > Thanks, > -=Town Food > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > From bobandshell97 at verizon.net Fri Jun 17 11:39:08 2022 From: bobandshell97 at verizon.net (ROBERT ELLINWOOD) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 16:39:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [pct-l] Permethrin from livestock supply stores In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: <252537242.460171.1655483948078@mail.yahoo.com> >"The one year I did not treat my clothes, hat, gloves, etc. I was bombarded with mosquitoes and flies!!" Ticks!?? Permethrin is GREAT for killing ticks.? Waaay back in 2002, My wife and I were camped at Benchmark on the CDT after finishing a 350 mile stretch when, a day later, a group of three hikers pulled in after doing the exact same 350 mile section of CDT. They slept under tarps and complained bitterly of dealing with ?hundreds? of ticks. We, having done the pre-trip Permethrin spraying, had dealt with only 6 ticks between us, none biting us .? FWIW.?? I also buy it from a hardware store and carefully dilute it into a spray bottle. -----Original Message----- From: Pamela Bryant To: Town Food ; pct-l at backcountry.net Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2022 12:26 pm Subject: Re: [pct-l] Permethrin from livestock supply stores Town Food, I bought a Durvet (brand) from a feed store (undiluted) Permethrin 10% 8 ozs for $8.99 about 7 years ago. The container is still full! The people at the store were very helpful with all of my questions. I used up the spray bottle from REI Sawyer brand 12 oz and used the empty bottle. The tricky part for me was getting the ratio to water and the Permethrin. You want it to be odorless on your clothes. While it is wet it is caustic to cats. So be careful. Once dried it is safe for cats. The one year I did not treat my clothes, hat, gloves, etc. I was bombarded with mosquitoes and flies!! On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 10:23 PM Town Food wrote: > A while back (7 or 8 years maybe?) I remember reading on this list a > recommendation to treat clothes with permethrin, not with the Sawyer > products from hiking stores, but with permethrin from a livestock supply > store.? The reason being, the livestock supply store will sell a quart > of 10% permethrin for about $15, while a hiking store will sell a pint > of 0.5% permethrin for about the same price.? So it's 40x cheaper if you > dilute the 10% solution yourself. > > Has anybody here used this method, and if so, are there particular > brands I should look for?? I've looked a bit on Amazon, and some of the > Q&A there says that some brands are not formulated to stick to clothes, > or will stain, or will retain a strong smell, so I'm not sure what I > should use. > > Thanks, >? -=Town Food > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Fri Jun 17 12:49:29 2022 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 17:49:29 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] So exciting Message-ID: I am so excited that people are talking on the list. Knowledge being exchanged !!!! Marmot Sent from my iPhone From gary at hbfun.org Fri Jun 17 13:10:38 2022 From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2022 11:10:38 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] So exciting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2366f5533e351a3948538a3af9ddc645@hbfun.org> Amazingly enough, it is still running. Thanks, Brick! Gary On 2022-06-17 10:49, marmot marmot wrote: > I am so excited that people are talking on the list. Knowledge being > exchanged !!!! > Marmot