From pctl at oakapple.net  Sun Sep  5 16:28:26 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 14:28:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] end of an era
Message-ID: <202109052128.185LSQNe003961@server-f.oakapple.net>


https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/pacific-crest-trail-angels-retiring/

Another scarce resource exploited until exhausted.

Still, the PCT in a drought year without water caches is a pretty big 
challenge.    Without free food, lodging, and laundry, not so much.

Of course, if more hikers were willing to pay for personal services, there
might be more personal services available.


From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sun Sep  5 22:07:12 2021
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 03:07:12 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd:  end of an era
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR04MB594115503BB6BAF104BBB44DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR04MB594115503BB6BAF104BBB44DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR04MB59413545EA5754E532CB894EC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
Date: September 5, 2021 at 5:53:50 PM PDT
To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>, PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] end of an era

?
?I guess the PCT will survive. It will exist for hikers to continue to attempt to hike to Canada. As we all know ,people used to fly,bus, take a train to San Diego catch the trolley then Bus to Campo and walk to border. It used to really bother me when there was a switch from people talking about where they were on the trail using place names?certain passes,water sources, lakes. I had to just let it be true that all they talked about was miles.  I got used to running into hikers who could not read a map and did not even carry one. Except of course on their phones,that as most hikers know,can easily break and often do. We used to know/learn how fast we could hike given the elevation gain and loss and therefore know how much water/food we needed to carry. Those skills may never be learned by most hikers out there these days. The sense of where we are in space is internal and can be tapped into. Awareness of the shape of the trail tread and the corresponding Mtns and valleys?how it all fits together tells your brain where you are especially if you can read a map and verify. I did start, when I was new to long distance hiking, carrying an extra meal in case I miscalculated. Sometimes I came into town a little hungry. Just recently I injured myself on a trail and hikers gave me extra food to make it to town because I was walking so slowly. But I checked out my maps (re -checked it with another hiker)and saw a short cut I could take to get to town faster. I was lucky that I got to stay on trail and not miss any of the route.
Just as most birds and animals know where they are, can place themselves in their surroundings, humans to a lesser extent (don?t know what we could actually capable of doing) can do the same. But not if they are looking constantly at their phones. It disconnects your brain from its inner navigational sense.This skill takes time and it is not easy. It can get a bit scary while you learn. Some people might not try. It?s difficult I admit.
I want as many people as possible to experience a long distance trail. I love that we all encourage new people to go on all the trails. But sometimes all the ?help? disconnects people from what the trail offers. It?s as if they get rescued over and over as they head north and never learn what they can do. I know how seductive the town stops are. Sometimes all I can think about is a hot shower?more than food.
Frankly ,from both ends of the AT(my most recent hike ) northbound and southbound I got so tired of  hearing the endless  conversations about how much dope they were taking(of all kinds)and how many miles that meant they could mindlessly hike. It seemed to take about 200-500 miles for those people to disappear. I would hate to see the PCT turn into that mess. Maybe it already has. The last time I was on the PCT was 2015. Could be that is is unalterably changed. Maybe It?s just rushing from town to town, trail angel to trail angel and not ?living? on the trail which was always ,for me,the best feeling.
What is wrong with allowing yourself to learn what is possible?
Marmot



<image0.jpeg>



Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 5, 2021, at 2:31 PM, David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net> wrote:

?
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/pacific-crest-trail-angels-retiring/

Another scarce resource exploited until exhausted.

Still, the PCT in a drought year without water caches is a pretty big
challenge.    Without free food, lodging, and laundry, not so much.

Of course, if more hikers were willing to pay for personal services, there
might be more personal services available.

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Sun Sep  5 23:57:32 2021
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2021 21:57:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: end of an era
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR04MB59413545EA5754E532CB894EC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR04MB594115503BB6BAF104BBB44DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <BYAPR04MB59413545EA5754E532CB894EC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj10sjmmw2MoCqb=rqtxC040Sq6pNAvn+3oeuC1e1HC2--g@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Marmot,

I had a few weeks free time this summer, as our big trips had all been
canceled due to Covid, and I jumped back on the PCT at Sonora Pass and
hiked about 350 miles to Fire Fly's place at Old Station, and I have to
say, the young folks and the older ones, were a wonderful bunch.  There
were a few wasteoids hanging around the hostel in South Shore Tahoe, but
for the most part, the trail was populated with a motivated, often highly
educated, and fun bunch of thru hikers.  I really enjoyed meeting them,
camping with them and getting to know them.  Drugs were not the central
thing for most, and living in the beauty of the trail was.  Of the older
crowd, I hiked with the usual, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, etc.
 and with the younger set, young men just out of the service, and lots of
young folks just out of college, and quite a few who had decided on a
nomadic life for a while.  I had been ready to be unimpressed with the
pack, but found myself really liking the vast majority of whom I met.  So
maybe the PCT hasn't totally gone the way of the unmotivated, drugged out
hikers you met on the AT.  At least my limited 350 mile sample left me
thinking so.  And it was so nice to see Georgi on her home turf!

Nice to hear from ya,

Shroomer

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 8:07 PM marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> Date: September 5, 2021 at 5:53:50 PM PDT
> To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>, PCT <
> pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] end of an era
>
> ?
> ?I guess the PCT will survive. It will exist for hikers to continue to
> attempt to hike to Canada. As we all know ,people used to fly,bus, take a
> train to San Diego catch the trolley then Bus to Campo and walk to border.
> It used to really bother me when there was a switch from people talking
> about where they were on the trail using place names?certain passes,water
> sources, lakes. I had to just let it be true that all they talked about was
> miles.  I got used to running into hikers who could not read a map and did
> not even carry one. Except of course on their phones,that as most hikers
> know,can easily break and often do. We used to know/learn how fast we could
> hike given the elevation gain and loss and therefore know how much
> water/food we needed to carry. Those skills may never be learned by most
> hikers out there these days. The sense of where we are in space is internal
> and can be tapped into. Awareness of the shape of the trail tread and the
> corresponding Mtns and valleys?how it all fits together tells your brain
> where you are especially if you can read a map and verify. I did start,
> when I was new to long distance hiking, carrying an extra meal in case I
> miscalculated. Sometimes I came into town a little hungry. Just recently I
> injured myself on a trail and hikers gave me extra food to make it to town
> because I was walking so slowly. But I checked out my maps (re -checked it
> with another hiker)and saw a short cut I could take to get to town faster.
> I was lucky that I got to stay on trail and not miss any of the route.
> Just as most birds and animals know where they are, can place themselves
> in their surroundings, humans to a lesser extent (don?t know what we could
> actually capable of doing) can do the same. But not if they are looking
> constantly at their phones. It disconnects your brain from its inner
> navigational sense.This skill takes time and it is not easy. It can get a
> bit scary while you learn. Some people might not try. It?s difficult I
> admit.
> I want as many people as possible to experience a long distance trail. I
> love that we all encourage new people to go on all the trails. But
> sometimes all the ?help? disconnects people from what the trail offers.
> It?s as if they get rescued over and over as they head north and never
> learn what they can do. I know how seductive the town stops are. Sometimes
> all I can think about is a hot shower?more than food.
> Frankly ,from both ends of the AT(my most recent hike ) northbound and
> southbound I got so tired of  hearing the endless  conversations about how
> much dope they were taking(of all kinds)and how many miles that meant they
> could mindlessly hike. It seemed to take about 200-500 miles for those
> people to disappear. I would hate to see the PCT turn into that mess. Maybe
> it already has. The last time I was on the PCT was 2015. Could be that is
> is unalterably changed. Maybe It?s just rushing from town to town, trail
> angel to trail angel and not ?living? on the trail which was always ,for
> me,the best feeling.
> What is wrong with allowing yourself to learn what is possible?
> Marmot
>
>
>
> <image0.jpeg>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 5, 2021, at 2:31 PM, David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/pacific-crest-trail-angels-retiring/
>
> Another scarce resource exploited until exhausted.
>
> Still, the PCT in a drought year without water caches is a pretty big
> challenge.    Without free food, lodging, and laundry, not so much.
>
> Of course, if more hikers were willing to pay for personal services, there
> might be more personal services available.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  6 09:46:15 2021
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 14:46:15 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hey
Message-ID: <BYAPR04MB5941410227DB92362222187DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Hey Shroomer
I?m so glad that it?s not like that yet on the PCT. It was a bit discouraging on the AT. Of course there is a concentration of hikers in shelters on the AT so that sort of behavior gets noticed. I can?t tell you how many people had no idea where they were. Maybe they were stoned? Maybe they just did not understand where they were in relation to the last shelter or water source and the next one. I learned not to ask any southbounders if the ?unreliable ?water sources had water  They just did not see them. 
Listening to conversations in shelter was bizarre?hikers comparing eatables and strains of dope to be able to hike further and faster. I learned what crack smelled like from running into it being smoked on trail. Two hikers( retired sheriffs) saw people cooking meth on trail. Hikers had to find a lost hiker in the middle of the night( she left her tent to go to the bathroom in the Smokies) because she was crying in the woods too stoned to figure out how to find her tent again. This is not just a ?trail?story. I know the people involved ( the stoner and the rescuers)and know it to be true. 
I gave up staying in hostels in ?18 ,unless there was no choice,because I didn?t want to breathe dope all night as people went outside to get stoned and then came back into a bunk room. Same at shelters. Oh well!
One hiker who was newly sober told me she had to leave group after group and hike alone because it was the only way to get away from the drugs. Since I only use shelters as a easy place to eat lunch and almost never sleep near/in one I don?t know what it is like at night. But at mid day it became an issue. Having to have the conversation ? No,you cannot smoke cigarettes or dope in the shelter? I don?t want to breathe it? got old. Sometimes people would ask permission Often they would not. I thought I had just gotten into a bad/odd/unusual bubble. But it happened again and again. I guess in their normal life they spend so much time stoned that they don?t even question the behavior. When I went back to the trail to finish as the ATC opened it up in ?21 I was hoping it had changed ( silly I know). But it seems, being stoned and  out of it is the norm. 
But what I learned is that even on the AT,I could hike for hours, even 1/2 a day and never see another hiker. It does not matter if there are a lot of people on the trail. They camp in little tent cities at the shelters  and bunch up in hostels and towns. They sleep late. I always found a place to camp alone and sometimes had most of the day to be on the trail without the crowds. Even when the story on trail was that there was no water and all sources were dried up,I found that not to be true. What I considered a water source was different  Green algae water filters just fine.   Water is anything I can scoop out off the ground. Puddles in rocks work fine. 
I met some lovely people and had great conversations on the tops of mountains about trees and flowers and ?why in the world can?t they figure out how to make a switch back on the east coast?? 
Yes, everyone it?s just as they say. Physically the AT is the hardest of TC. But maybe that?s just because I was injured in some way each hunk of it I was working on. For me doing a thruhike is so much easier than doing a piece of the MYTH and going back to work and then having to get back into trail shape. I had planned to split the trail into two years but it ended up being four. 
I?m going to miss having an in person Gathering this year.   But maybe next year. 
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

From baidarker at gmail.com  Mon Sep  6 12:55:38 2021
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 10:55:38 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hey
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR04MB5941410227DB92362222187DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BYAPR04MB5941410227DB92362222187DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj10D-yzgPha0605wfbPJMdbikvQGw_8vp12vdm0bBBn0Ww@mail.gmail.com>

Me too, I?ll miss the Gathering and I?ll miss seeing everyone in person.
I?m with you, the AT is by far more physically difficult than the other 2,
and thru hiking is easier than just doing 350 miles.  It took me 2 weeks of
going slow to finally get up to speed, but by my 3rd week, I was bustin a
few 30s, and feeling great!  Then the first of the heat waves hit just as I
was about to start out on the Hat Creek Rim from Georgie?s.  100 degrees
plus over that dry, super exposed stretch, was not appetizing.  If I had
been thru hiking, I?d have tackled it, but I wasn?t! And the good thing
about a section hike was that I could just walk away feeling fine about
it.  So I went home to my daughter?s 30th Birthday Party and stayed cool in
a swimming pool.

Shroomer

On Mon, Sep 6, 2021 at 7:46 AM marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Hey Shroomer
> I?m so glad that it?s not like that yet on the PCT. It was a bit
> discouraging on the AT. Of course there is a concentration of hikers in
> shelters on the AT so that sort of behavior gets noticed. I can?t tell you
> how many people had no idea where they were. Maybe they were stoned? Maybe
> they just did not understand where they were in relation to the last
> shelter or water source and the next one. I learned not to ask any
> southbounders if the ?unreliable ?water sources had water  They just did
> not see them.
> Listening to conversations in shelter was bizarre?hikers comparing
> eatables and strains of dope to be able to hike further and faster. I
> learned what crack smelled like from running into it being smoked on trail.
> Two hikers( retired sheriffs) saw people cooking meth on trail. Hikers had
> to find a lost hiker in the middle of the night( she left her tent to go to
> the bathroom in the Smokies) because she was crying in the woods too stoned
> to figure out how to find her tent again. This is not just a ?trail?story.
> I know the people involved ( the stoner and the rescuers)and know it to be
> true.
> I gave up staying in hostels in ?18 ,unless there was no choice,because I
> didn?t want to breathe dope all night as people went outside to get stoned
> and then came back into a bunk room. Same at shelters. Oh well!
> One hiker who was newly sober told me she had to leave group after group
> and hike alone because it was the only way to get away from the drugs.
> Since I only use shelters as a easy place to eat lunch and almost never
> sleep near/in one I don?t know what it is like at night. But at mid day it
> became an issue. Having to have the conversation ? No,you cannot smoke
> cigarettes or dope in the shelter? I don?t want to breathe it? got old.
> Sometimes people would ask permission Often they would not. I thought I had
> just gotten into a bad/odd/unusual bubble. But it happened again and again.
> I guess in their normal life they spend so much time stoned that they don?t
> even question the behavior. When I went back to the trail to finish as the
> ATC opened it up in ?21 I was hoping it had changed ( silly I know). But it
> seems, being stoned and  out of it is the norm.
> But what I learned is that even on the AT,I could hike for hours, even 1/2
> a day and never see another hiker. It does not matter if there are a lot of
> people on the trail. They camp in little tent cities at the shelters  and
> bunch up in hostels and towns. They sleep late. I always found a place to
> camp alone and sometimes had most of the day to be on the trail without the
> crowds. Even when the story on trail was that there was no water and all
> sources were dried up,I found that not to be true. What I considered a
> water source was different  Green algae water filters just fine.   Water is
> anything I can scoop out off the ground. Puddles in rocks work fine.
> I met some lovely people and had great conversations on the tops of
> mountains about trees and flowers and ?why in the world can?t they figure
> out how to make a switch back on the east coast??
> Yes, everyone it?s just as they say. Physically the AT is the hardest of
> TC. But maybe that?s just because I was injured in some way each hunk of it
> I was working on. For me doing a thruhike is so much easier than doing a
> piece of the MYTH and going back to work and then having to get back into
> trail shape. I had planned to split the trail into two years but it ended
> up being four.
> I?m going to miss having an in person Gathering this year.   But maybe
> next year.
> Marmot
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Mon Sep  6 17:31:21 2021
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2021 22:31:21 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] # 30563775  Hey
In-Reply-To: <613689f838c32_23b2b290abb014412061c8.sidekiq-maintenance-fd-poduseast1-free-green-54c957fb99-wbgc4@email.freshdesk.com>
References: <BYAPR04MB5941410227DB92362222187DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <613689f838c32_23b2b290abb014412061c8.sidekiq-maintenance-fd-poduseast1-free-green-54c957fb99-wbgc4@email.freshdesk.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR04MB59416BDC0FBA8A8EE111E36AC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Good for you. My favorite memory of the Hat Creek rim was looking down at one point and seeing a tiny tree with an tiny apricot on it. I ate it and still have the pit from ?94.
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 6, 2021, at 2:36 PM, abuse at namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com wrote:

?
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From tnx4asking at gmail.com  Sat Sep 18 22:22:44 2021
From: tnx4asking at gmail.com (John Casterline)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2021 23:22:44 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Half Mile PCT
Message-ID: <CALyRfO+vBcZ4anZiRUgaQzdgyutUooE0OfPokdSMyoROv+dxVg@mail.gmail.com>

I used Half Mile's PCT app when I hiked the tail a few years ago.  Is that
still available?

What similar app(s) is as good or better than Half Miles?

-- 
John Caster____

 lungcancerhike.org

johnbcasterline.com

Facebook
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lung-Cancer-Hike-A-Hike-of-Hope/156690367700043>

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sat Sep 18 23:55:50 2021
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2021 21:55:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Half Mile PCT
In-Reply-To: <CALyRfO+vBcZ4anZiRUgaQzdgyutUooE0OfPokdSMyoROv+dxVg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALyRfO+vBcZ4anZiRUgaQzdgyutUooE0OfPokdSMyoROv+dxVg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e2e58ef7-7333-000a-71f2-f8e46f169320@marcusschwartz.com>

It's probably still possible to get it installed, but it's officially 
discontinued, and the data hasn't been updated since 2015.  I also 
haven't hiked the trail in a few years, but my impression is that the 
current de facto standard is the Guthook apps.

Guthook's apps improve on Halfmile's app by adding actual maps, 
elevation profiles, photos of waypoints, and user comments.  The 
comments are very useful when you want to know the status of a water 
source -- they get updated whenever you find an Internet connection, so 
you can often see reports just a few days old about flow rate and other 
such details.  They're also useful as a sort of a second opinion to the 
data the app provides (e.g. Guthook tends to underexaggerate how many 
tents can fit in a given tentsite).  It still has a Halfmile-style list 
of waypoints by mile, if you prefer that over a map with icons on it.

Gaia GPS has been popular for people who want something more like a 
traditional map than an app.  I haven't used it, and can't comment.

I used OSMAnd for traditional maps.  It's not specifically for the PCT, 
it's just a generic mapping app that works without Internet and happens 
to have the PCT on it.  I like that it can be customized to have a lot 
of features I like for hiking, such as contour lines, hillshades, and 
colorization for steepness (I find it easier to judge steepness at a 
glance with colorization than with contour lines).  It can even display 
icons for Wikipedia articles about points of interest near you, and 
display the articles without an Internet connection.  This can be nice 
if you enjoy learning about where you are during your downtime.  A map 
can tell you that the mountain you're looking at is "Mt. Adams", but 
OSMAnd can tell you how the Bridge of the Gods legend explains Mt. 
Adams' flat top (short answer: Mt. Hood hit him over the head while 
vying for the love of Mt. St. Helens).

Organic Maps is a newer competitor to OSMAnd.  It doesn't have as many 
features yet (e.g. no Wikipedia articles), but I find its display easier 
to read.  Trails in particular are drawn with a bolder line, and don't 
disappear so quickly when you zoom out.  It's also faster than OSMAnd 
(though possibly because I have a million features turned on in OSMAnd).

I've heard Avenza Maps recommended.  You buy/download PDF maps that have 
GPS information embedded in them, and it displays your location on the 
maps.  This means that Avenza doesn't provide the maps, they just make 
the app, and various maps are available from third parties.  This can be 
useful if you prefer navigating by maps made by National Geographic or 
the Forest Service or such, but don't want to carry paper or have to 
guess about your location on the map.  So far as I'm aware it doesn't 
have any hiker-specific features like marking campsites and water 
sources, or labeling locations by trail miles.  I personally find Avenza 
not so useful for thru-hiking, but good for tourism and day hikes, since 
they have maps for practically everywhere, and sometimes there are 
special-interest maps available.  Finding maps you actually want in 
Avenza's store is somewhat of a problem though, because there's a lot of 
"map spam" in the listings.  I find it easier to find the map I want on 
their website on my computer, then search for it by name in their app on 
my phone.

This email is a bit long-winded, but the short answer is:  Use Guthook's 
apps.  If you prefer traditional maps instead of a purpose-made hiking 
app, there are several choices.  Of course, apps weigh nothing, so you 
can also try them all.

  -=Town Food

On 9/18/21 8:22 PM, John Casterline wrote:
> I used Half Mile's PCT app when I hiked the tail a few years ago.  Is that
> still available?
> 
> What similar app(s) is as good or better than Half Miles?
> 

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 19 07:16:25 2021
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:16:25 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Crater Lake,
 National Park Service increase law enforcement presence due to
 poorly behaved PCT hikers: PacificCrestTrail
Message-ID: <BYAPR04MB5941D85E9E2979F1A278D0DFC8DF9@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Maybe we should start talking about this everywhere?-trail organizations,social media,etc.  
I saw this behavior on the AT. We had a small conversation about this  sort of behavior on the PCT a little while ago. At that point I was reassured that the PCT was still different. Maybe not. 
Marmot

https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/comments/p8t4kf/crater_lake_national_park_service_increase_law/


Sent from my iPhone

From tnx4asking at gmail.com  Sun Sep 19 08:10:42 2021
From: tnx4asking at gmail.com (John Casterline)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 09:10:42 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Half Mile PCT
In-Reply-To: <e2e58ef7-7333-000a-71f2-f8e46f169320@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <CALyRfO+vBcZ4anZiRUgaQzdgyutUooE0OfPokdSMyoROv+dxVg@mail.gmail.com>
 <e2e58ef7-7333-000a-71f2-f8e46f169320@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CALyRfOKkynLreMV0NME5eTnXmL15tFLuAX7PVL8t_r7M2gCyrw@mail.gmail.com>

Very thorough, thanks.

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 12:55 AM Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:

> It's probably still possible to get it installed, but it's officially
> discontinued, and the data hasn't been updated since 2015.  I also
> haven't hiked the trail in a few years, but my impression is that the
> current de facto standard is the Guthook apps.
>
> Guthook's apps improve on Halfmile's app by adding actual maps,
> elevation profiles, photos of waypoints, and user comments.  The
> comments are very useful when you want to know the status of a water
> source -- they get updated whenever you find an Internet connection, so
> you can often see reports just a few days old about flow rate and other
> such details.  They're also useful as a sort of a second opinion to the
> data the app provides (e.g. Guthook tends to underexaggerate how many
> tents can fit in a given tentsite).  It still has a Halfmile-style list
> of waypoints by mile, if you prefer that over a map with icons on it.
>
> Gaia GPS has been popular for people who want something more like a
> traditional map than an app.  I haven't used it, and can't comment.
>
> I used OSMAnd for traditional maps.  It's not specifically for the PCT,
> it's just a generic mapping app that works without Internet and happens
> to have the PCT on it.  I like that it can be customized to have a lot
> of features I like for hiking, such as contour lines, hillshades, and
> colorization for steepness (I find it easier to judge steepness at a
> glance with colorization than with contour lines).  It can even display
> icons for Wikipedia articles about points of interest near you, and
> display the articles without an Internet connection.  This can be nice
> if you enjoy learning about where you are during your downtime.  A map
> can tell you that the mountain you're looking at is "Mt. Adams", but
> OSMAnd can tell you how the Bridge of the Gods legend explains Mt.
> Adams' flat top (short answer: Mt. Hood hit him over the head while
> vying for the love of Mt. St. Helens).
>
> Organic Maps is a newer competitor to OSMAnd.  It doesn't have as many
> features yet (e.g. no Wikipedia articles), but I find its display easier
> to read.  Trails in particular are drawn with a bolder line, and don't
> disappear so quickly when you zoom out.  It's also faster than OSMAnd
> (though possibly because I have a million features turned on in OSMAnd).
>
> I've heard Avenza Maps recommended.  You buy/download PDF maps that have
> GPS information embedded in them, and it displays your location on the
> maps.  This means that Avenza doesn't provide the maps, they just make
> the app, and various maps are available from third parties.  This can be
> useful if you prefer navigating by maps made by National Geographic or
> the Forest Service or such, but don't want to carry paper or have to
> guess about your location on the map.  So far as I'm aware it doesn't
> have any hiker-specific features like marking campsites and water
> sources, or labeling locations by trail miles.  I personally find Avenza
> not so useful for thru-hiking, but good for tourism and day hikes, since
> they have maps for practically everywhere, and sometimes there are
> special-interest maps available.  Finding maps you actually want in
> Avenza's store is somewhat of a problem though, because there's a lot of
> "map spam" in the listings.  I find it easier to find the map I want on
> their website on my computer, then search for it by name in their app on
> my phone.
>
> This email is a bit long-winded, but the short answer is:  Use Guthook's
> apps.  If you prefer traditional maps instead of a purpose-made hiking
> app, there are several choices.  Of course, apps weigh nothing, so you
> can also try them all.
>
>   -=Town Food
>
> On 9/18/21 8:22 PM, John Casterline wrote:
> > I used Half Mile's PCT app when I hiked the tail a few years ago.  Is
> that
> > still available?
> >
> > What similar app(s) is as good or better than Half Miles?
> >
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-- 
John Caster____

 lungcancerhike.org

johnbcasterline.com

Facebook
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lung-Cancer-Hike-A-Hike-of-Hope/156690367700043>

From douglastow at gmail.com  Sun Sep 19 14:21:40 2021
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:21:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Halfmile app
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOser7Xe8QVbkp8hUfBtWzCRb1TZCC3FLj1-NYg3M=UfMA@mail.gmail.com>

The Halfmile app is no longer available to any model phone, to my knowledge.

Most hikers on the PCT are using Guthook's app.  Guthook has location,
maps, mileages, water, campsites, towns, and an ability to post and view
photos and comments from hikers.  The app can be used while on-trail
without phone connectivity, using GPS.  However, without phone
connectivity, you will not be able to post or see comments or photos made
since your last data download.

I am sure to be missing some features of Guthook, but see for yourself.
It's not expensive for what it gives.

Cheers,

Chipmunk

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 19 15:27:48 2021
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 13:27:48 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] pct_96-12a@yahoo.com
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM1ew0fNCyvgsdT0GDkazi+foT78D8cEimoZZEx8JS1uZQ@mail.gmail.com>

It is true that Guthook's app is an improvement on Halfmiles app, but
Guthooks app uses Halfmiles data.  Halfmile does update his GPS data so you
can use it in Gaia GPS, TopoMaps, MotionX GPS, etc.

Halfmiles paper maps were last updated in 2019 and they can be found on the
internet archive sites.

Whenever I go out on the PCT, this summer included, I use the 2019 maps and
2015 app.  The trail does not change that much.  In fact, it almost never
changes.  The last few big changes were the reroute to the new Suiattle
bridge and the reroute north of Sierra Buttes.  The first was opened in
2015 and it is obvious where to hike.  As for the Sierra Buttes reroute, I
like the high trail and would probably take it over dropping down to the
lakes, but your choice may vary.

As for the tent site locations, They vary between Guthook and Halfmile.
Sometimes they match up and other times they markout different locations. I
ignore them all.  I stealth camp wherever I am, when it gets dark, except
where NP regulations prohibit it, ie: The Great Smokies, Yellowstone, and
Glacier.

Papa Raven
PCT 96, 15
CDT 17
AT19

From pctl at oakapple.net  Sun Sep 19 17:05:47 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 15:05:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] too bad there aren't any giant sequoias along the pct or jmt
Message-ID: <202109192205.18JM5lYs020091@server-f.oakapple.net>


Giant sequoias live in isolated groves around 6000-7000' in the western
Sierra Nevada, far from the crest.

But the High Sierra Trail, which connects to the PCT and Mt Whitney, starts
at Crescent Meadow in the Giant Forest.    70+ trail miles gets you to
Cottonwood Lakes on the east side.     That was long on my bucket list -
starting from the higher east side -  but old age has beat me to it and I am
no longer up for 70 mile backpacks.

But I was willing to try to dip my toe in last week.    With all national
forests closed, the options were Yosemite, Kings Canyon, and Sequoia, but
Yosmite requires reservations even for day use.   At the last minute
I made an expensive reservation to stay at the last available Sequoia lodging - 
Wuksachi - close to the wilderness permit office in the Giant Forest Museum.
Driving hard I got there just before they closed at 3:30 and got a walk-up
wilderness permit to hike from Crescent Meadow to Nine Mile Creek on Sunday,
returning Monday.    In younger days I would have pushed on to Bearpaw Meadow
or Hamilton Lakes but there was a hint of smoke in the air from a couple
of small fires that had started the day before, but they were small and
several miles away.    It was ominous though that the road from Giant Forest
down to highway 198 had just closed.

The next day I got to the Giant Forest Museum and found the road to Crescent
Meadow closed.     Likewise the Wilderness Permit office was also closed and
nobody answered a knock on the door, even though it was supposed to open at
7am.    The smoke was definitely thicker.    All the hints added up to the
same decision, so I drove back to Grant Grove in Kings Canyon.    The 
information rangers there could not account for what had happened, but
suggested I could use wifi near the visitor center to make reservations for
camping or lodging if I wanted to stay the night.      recreation.gov was
unresponsive but I got a tent cabin at John Muir Lodge.

There I learned that Sequoia National Park had closed completely at noon -
all wilderness, lodging, and camping reservations cancelled and visitors
and non-essential employees expelled.     I learned later to my amazement
that somebody had cancelled my wilderness permit reservation and arranged a
refund of the fee from recreation.gov.

I spent the next three days near Grant Grove, enjoying the giant sequoias.
The trails tend to be short, but there are many of them, so you can keep busy.
Every so often a cloud of dark smoke would blow overhead from the growing
fires but the air was usually pretty breathable.

As many others have observed, there is something uniquely magnificent about
a giant sequoia grove, different from every other kind of forest, even coast
redwoods.     It's like being in church - or a cemetery or an ICU - it seems
impolite to be noisy.

The giant sequoias, centuries old, stand in
great quiet dignity, each one unique - like a gathering of saints, each
with ancient wisdom to relate to those with ears to listen.
They've all seen hundreds of fires - what's one more?    Yet there's reason
to believe that the current global-warming fire regime in California is a
bigger challenge than they've ever faced.  

A week later the fires have grown stronger and reached the Giant Forest.
General Sherman is now protected by aluminum foil.

https://apnews.com/article/fires-environment-and-nature-forests-california-environment-43cae98d06ca3c3e299fae24998f0928

The wind is supposed to change today, reducing the threat to Giant Forest,
and increasing the threat to Three Rivers, the first town down canyon.

The point here, especially for PCT hikers from far away, is that the
giant sequoias are as important a feature of California as Yosemite Valley
and Mt Whitney and well worth visiting if you can manage it.    They are part
of the logos of the Park Service and the Sierra Club.

Aside from Giant Forest in Sequoia NP, the big accessible 
groves are Redwood Mountain
and Grant Grove in Kings Canyon NP, Mariposa Grove in Yosemite NP, and
Calaveras Big Trees state park further north.      All are far from the PCT.