From pctl at oakapple.net  Tue Feb  2 23:52:14 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:52:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] after Foley catheterization
Message-ID: <202102030552.1135qEqR008441@server-f.oakapple.net>


If you don't know what this is all about, count your blessings and
move on.    Too much information here for young studs, but they are probably
all over on Facebook anyway.

Women and young men sometimes get catheterized too for various problems, 
but the problems are different and experiences probably not applicable to old 
guys.

After an unexpected bout of acute urinary retention brought on by enlarged
prostate - a typical old guy problem - I am catheterized for a week or two.
I might be alone on this list, but if any other typical old guys had to
deal with that, I wonder about after the catheter is removed.

Were you able to get back on the trail to some extent,
how long did it take,
what were the long term effects?

If you have anything to share probably best to do it privately rather than
to the whole list.    If I get any useful information I'll provide a 
sanitized summary to the list.

I will say that I was glad that it happened in town rather than on the trail,
but I've never had any retention problem at all while hiking.



From james8313 at sti.net  Wed Feb  3 12:44:26 2021
From: james8313 at sti.net (james8313 at sti.net)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 10:44:26 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] after Foley catheterization
Message-ID: <c61d96555eb610ba039c1eb2244a738c@127.0.0.1>

Having delt with Kidney stones for 40 yrs, enlarged prostate and a blader 
issue, i have had a number of Foley's over the years. I can tell you that
their 
is still a life afterwards.  I have done a number of hikes afterwards in
the Sierra Mts.  

Dad had a enlarged prostate and it took about 9 months and a couple of
procedures to open the plumbing and he was able to get off the Foley - he
was 93
at the time.

One thing to ask about when you return to the Dr to have it removed is
that if 
you need to continue on a catheter you may want to change to Self
Catherization. 
You get catheters and lube for a one time use. Mine are ordered and sent
monthly
due to the blader issue in july 2019. 

Also Get a Man Bag to carry a few along w/ lube, when you are going to be
away from 
the house for several hrs and you will do fine. You will soon learn where
all the restrooms
can be found ie: Walmart

Yosemite James





Message: 1
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:52:14 -0800 (PST)
From: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] after Foley catheterization
Message-ID: <202102030552.1135qEqR008441 at server-f.oakapple.net>


If you don't know what this is all about, count your blessings and
move on.    Too much information here for young studs, but they are
probably
all over on Facebook anyway.

Women and young men sometimes get catheterized too for various problems, 
but the problems are different and experiences probably not applicable to
old 
guys.

After an unexpected bout of acute urinary retention brought on by enlarged
prostate - a typical old guy problem - I am catheterized for a week or
two.
I might be alone on this list, but if any other typical old guys had to
deal with that, I wonder about after the catheter is removed.

Were you able to get back on the trail to some extent,
how long did it take,
what were the long term effects?

If you have anything to share probably best to do it privately rather than
to the whole list.    If I get any useful information I'll provide a 
sanitized summary to the list.

I will say that I was glad that it happened in town rather than on the
trail,
but I've never had any retention problem at all while hiking.


From steveschummdds at msn.com  Wed Feb  3 21:22:09 2021
From: steveschummdds at msn.com (Steve Schumm)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 03:22:09 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 138, Issue 1,
 1. after Foley catheterization (David Hough reading PCT-L)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1612375201.21248.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1612375201.21248.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <SJ0PR20MB37216736BD542F3C5CE3D49ACAB39@SJ0PR20MB3721.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

David, I do not have personal experience with catheterization, but I do have personal experience with BPH and prostate cancer that I would be glad to share if you are interested. I don't know how to respond privately to you from this list (sorry, not very computer savvy) but if you are interested you can contact me by email at steveschummdds at msn.com with your contact information and I will respond with any information that I have that you may find useful.

________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 10:00 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 138, Issue 1

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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 21:52:14 -0800 (PST)
From: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] after Foley catheterization
Message-ID: <202102030552.1135qEqR008441 at server-f.oakapple.net>


If you don't know what this is all about, count your blessings and
move on.    Too much information here for young studs, but they are probably
all over on Facebook anyway.

Women and young men sometimes get catheterized too for various problems,
but the problems are different and experiences probably not applicable to old
guys.

After an unexpected bout of acute urinary retention brought on by enlarged
prostate - a typical old guy problem - I am catheterized for a week or two.
I might be alone on this list, but if any other typical old guys had to
deal with that, I wonder about after the catheter is removed.

Were you able to get back on the trail to some extent,
how long did it take,
what were the long term effects?

If you have anything to share probably best to do it privately rather than
to the whole list.    If I get any useful information I'll provide a
sanitized summary to the list.

I will say that I was glad that it happened in town rather than on the trail,
but I've never had any retention problem at all while hiking.




------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

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------------------------------

End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 138, Issue 1
*************************************

From pctl at oakapple.net  Thu Feb  4 22:39:31 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:39:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] tragedy on Apache Peak
Message-ID: <202102050439.1154dVeq004047@server-f.oakapple.net>


I suppose most have heard about this, but it was news to me.
I turned around in a similar situation on Raymond Peak, but I was just
day hiking.   If I'd been a through hiker...

https://www.altaonline.com/dispatches/a34785167/accident-pacific-crest-trail-louise-farr/

From susan at newstories.org  Fri Feb  5 16:23:27 2021
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 22:23:27 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Paradise Valley Cafe to Agua Dulce (152-454)
Message-ID: <CA+zvBRwCyAZi+a00kp7z19+Js8LSdvYBoymeX_9gvbdD6MuHAA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear PCT-L,

Many of you have helped me in the past.  I?m a section hiker from Spokane
and started hiking the WA PCT in 1977.  If I am able to finish the whole
trail, I?m sure I?ll hold the record for taking the longest time to section
hike!

First of all, thank you David, for sharing the article from Louise Farr ?
Tragedy on Apache Peak.  With all the research and interviews that she did,
she managed to capture the camaraderie and spirt and determination of PCT
hikers, as well as the grievous dangers.  The PCTA Jan. 29 Trail Dirt
newsletter had a long article written by Trevor?s dad.

Sometime in April, pandemic permitting ? Feb 19 I?ll get my second
vaccination ? a friend who?s hiked some other CA sections with me, and I
will start at Highway 74, and hope to make it to Agua Dulce.  After that,
all I have left is Tehachapi to Sonora Pass ? woo hoo!

What advice would you all have for me?

I?m following sanjacjon?s San Jacinto trail reports  ? he is utterly
amazing! ? to see what?s up with the snow cover.  My friend and I are
flexible so if there?s little snow, we can start earlier or wait til
later.  I?ve already mapped out alternative routes down from Spitler, if
it?s dicey up toward Apache Peak.  And I?ll be checking in with ranger
stations.

Even tho I?ve hiked 1900 PCT miles, this stretch seems really daunting ?
very high peaks with possibly dangerous icy conditions mixed in with hot
desert stretches and little to no water.

Would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions you might have.

Thanks,
Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)

From temp3 at mflan.com  Fri Feb  5 19:21:46 2021
From: temp3 at mflan.com (Mike)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 19:21:46 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] tragedy on Apache Peak
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1612548001.49767.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1612548001.49767.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <2c628a11-bb6d-3974-10da-815859fe1c56@mflan.com>


I had not heard.? Thanks for posting this.


Mike


On 2/5/21 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> I suppose most have heard about this, but it was news to me.
> I turned around in a similar situation on Raymond Peak, but I was just
> day hiking.   If I'd been a through hiker...
>
> https://www.altaonline.com/dispatches/a34785167/accident-pacific-crest-trail-louise-farr/
>



From susan at newstories.org  Sat Feb  6 13:35:05 2021
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 11:35:05 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT advice
In-Reply-To: <44A4BA2A-BE66-4846-8187-9ACFB55DB981@g.hmc.edu>
References: <44A4BA2A-BE66-4846-8187-9ACFB55DB981@g.hmc.edu>
Message-ID: <CA+zvBRx6pVEfFNxmiZW4XvwmU3DD6DDGzhjZ6W3tJe4gkCmbhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, David,

You may not remember that I have profusely thanked you for eTrails and I
shamelessly promote it while I?m section hiking.

Having started with the Wilderness Press guidebooks back in 1977 when I did
my first 100 mile solo in northern WA, I totally LOVE the fact that eTrails
is so much more informative and educational than any of the other apps.

Bravo for you for creating it.  You have my deepest appreciation.

And ? thanks for this very encouraging email about those 300 miles.
Intriguing advice about getting to Kennedy Meadows in fall or spring.
Maybe I could break this down into 3 hikes ? April or so Highway 74 to Agua
Dulce; August for the high Sierra; and perhaps October?? for Tehachapi to
Kennedy Meadows?  Or depending upon how I feel in Agua Dulce, perhaps
adding the Tehachapi stretch on in mid-May??

Like you, I don?t use Facebook, so this list-serve is so helpful to me.
Good luck with your Ashland to the Columbia hike!

Happy Trails,
Susan/Sunshine


On February 6, 2021 at 10:25:09 AM, David Harris (harris at g.hmc.edu) wrote:

Susan,

I love the stretch from Highway 74 to Agua Dulce. As long as you wait for
the snow to melt out, there are few difficulties. The Desert Divide is a
special place, and it?s magical when you get into the San Jacinto
wilderness and hear the chickadees among the lodgepole pines. Some people
have reported discomfort bypassing the rock slide by Apache. There were
some aggressive bees in Snow Creek when I came through.

It?s hot between Snow Creek and Whitewater when the snow is gone from San
Jacinto. If you are trying to maximize comfort you could hike that stretch
this winter when it?s in perfect condition, though then you need a car
shuttle.

If you have the opportunity, consider hiking Tehachapi to Kennedy Meadows
in the fall or spring. It can be beautiful and comfortable. I didn?t use
water caches and had to carry 7 quarts to go 25 mile legs at times, but
otherwise it wasn?t particularly difficult.

The section from Kennedy Meadows to Sonora Pass is glorious, the best on
the whole PCT. Go in late July through September when there?s no snow and
no dangerous stream crossings, and the only problems will be crowds and a
few areas of mosquitos.

If you have an iPhone, I think my free eTrails map is better than Guthook,
with a lot more about natural and human history.

You?ve almost got this made. Exciting!

I?m hoping to hike Ashland to the Columbia this summer to finish my section
hike of the PCT.

Good to see a bit of traffic on this list. I don?t use Facebook and am cut
off from the PCT community as a result.

David

From neil.lacey at comcast.net  Sat Feb  6 18:04:41 2021
From: neil.lacey at comcast.net (Neil Lacey)
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 19:04:41 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] interview-with-carolyn-ravensong-burkhart
In-Reply-To: <CA+zvBRx6pVEfFNxmiZW4XvwmU3DD6DDGzhjZ6W3tJe4gkCmbhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44A4BA2A-BE66-4846-8187-9ACFB55DB981@g.hmc.edu>
 <CA+zvBRx6pVEfFNxmiZW4XvwmU3DD6DDGzhjZ6W3tJe4gkCmbhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <093c9d39-28c4-b5ce-89a4-ded32921536c@comcast.net>

https://thetrek.co/pacific-crest-trail/interview-with-carolyn-ravensong-burkhart-first-woman-to-solo-thru-hike-the-pacific-crest-trail-pct/?ref=slider

From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Feb  8 22:39:25 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 20:39:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] SUMMARY: after Foley catheterization
Message-ID: <202102090439.1194dP4M015160@server-f.oakapple.net>


My inquiry was basically - 
if an old guy is catheterized temporarily for acute urinary 
retention due to enlarged prostate, 
will he eventually recover enough to be able to go backpacking again?

I received several very informative private responses.
I am pleased to have gotten several reassurances that there is a future
in most cases.
Much to my amazement, I heard from a couple of old guys that self-catheterize.
If it gets to that point, I'll hang it up though. 

If anybody wants more information, ask privately and I'll send you the
key bits of correspondence, anonymized.

I got the catheter removed today after a week, and so far it looks good,
and I might try a couple of flat paved miles tomorrow.

David Hough

==

So what if the young and hip have moved on to Facebook!   What do they know
about old guy and old gal problems anyway?    We still have pct-l.

As Hans Sachs the old guy bootmaker sings at the end of Wagner's Meistersinger -

Verachtet mir die Meister nicht ...
zerging' in Dunst
das heil'ge r?m'sche Reich,
uns bliebe gleich
die heil'ge deutsche Kunst!

Translated:

Young folks don't scorn us old guys now ...
Though turned to mist
the endless Facebook strife,
still we would have
our P-C T-l life!

The music is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u61XvPYyaE0
but the translation is incorrect because it never mentions hiking.


From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:59:44 2021
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 21:59:44 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] moving on...
In-Reply-To: <202102090439.1194dP4M015160@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202102090439.1194dP4M015160@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <13bc3874-ebd9-e8b3-dfa9-9dcd49569264@gmail.com>

I belong to the 55+ facebook hiking group.? Most of the posts are 
selfies.? Once in a while you get a sense of the world the person hikes 
in, but not often enough.? I stopped hanging out on the facebook pct 
pages last year because the stuff coming through was not very 
interesting.? Journals yes - I can talk with someone 22 years old who is 
hiking or has hiked a long distance.? But the facebook reality is about 
youthful enthusiasm with little experience.? That gets old.

The travails of getting older aren't discussed there.? David's post, his 
question, his vulnerability - I am open to the PCT-L becoming an older 
persons place to hang out.? Weirdly, my 56 year old friend I hike with 
has a husband who is my age - 68 - who just had a whole catheritization 
experience and an operation to deal with the underlying condition.

That said, I'm still really interested in hearing of weeklong trips, 
longer section hikes, or perspectives on hitting the trail.? I think 
we're mostly older with lots of experience.? I would LOVE to hear 
stories.? Some of us are no longer able to spend weeks, months on the 
trail.

I haven't hiked the PCT for a while.? I can tell a story of my 
girlfriend sliding down Gibraltar Ridge? in northern california, and me 
leaping after her, of two women with a big dog that laughed when it 
lunged to bite as I walked by, of a 90 year old woman revisiting her 
honeymoon hike at the top of Bishop Pass, of lying in my tent near 
Desolation Pass in Washington, listening to a bear grub, and having an 
out of body experience.

I like to hang out on the page and remember.? I'm ok with that.? Is that 
where we are?

Jeffrey Olson
Laramie WY


On 2/8/2021 8:39 PM, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote:
> My inquiry was basically -
> if an old guy is catheterized temporarily for acute urinary
> retention due to enlarged prostate,
> will he eventually recover enough to be able to go backpacking again?
>


From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Feb  8 23:30:51 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 21:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] moving on...
Message-ID: <202102090530.1195Upee001148@server-f.oakapple.net>

> I like to hang out on the page and remember.
> Is that where we are?

People ask for advice on future trips here, just like young people do.
But our plans tend to be less adventurous on an absolute scale, though perhaps
more adventurous relative to our declining physical capabilities.

The difference is that we collectively have lots of memories and I usually
get multiple useful responses to questions.     I could get more responses
elsewhere, I suppose, for some things, but not necessarily more information.

Responding to a question that you know the answer to - perhaps based on
a trip 20 or 30 years ago - is our way of reminding ourselves as well as
others.



From dofdear at cox.net  Tue Feb  9 16:18:53 2021
From: dofdear at cox.net (Thumper aka dofdear)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 14:18:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Communicator Magazines
Message-ID: <1603415632.399515.1612909133930@myemail.cox.net>

I'm moving and have decided as part of that process of downsizing to offer up my collection of 2009 to present collection of the PCTA Communicator.  I possess over 60 issues including many of the annual calendars with it's beautiful photography.  These are in excellent or better condition other than blacking out of my personal address information.
So here's the deal.  In exchange for a donation of $75 to the PCTA ($75 minus shipping goes to the PCTA) you will get the whole collection sent via media mail.  Please contact me off-list if interested.

Thumper aka Dan C

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 22:35:26 2021
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 20:35:26 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] warner springs monte...
Message-ID: <35c2dfdc-751c-dad8-9053-e05089232d01@gmail.com>

There have been a couple blips on the listserv lately.? I'm curious what 
Warner Springs Monte is up to.

I was camped at a spring below the trail in central oregon. He, and 
another famous 2005 hiker (one gallon?) were moving south on the trail.? 
They were debating the ethical reality of trail angels as they hiked.? I 
lay on my bed and listened/watched them walk by.

I remember walking down into the Timberline lodge and like 15 SOBO thrus 
were eating breakfast.? I felt alienated and continued walking. I camped 
not far below Barlow Pass.? Everyone passed me over the next couple 
days.? I think Monte was part of that group.

Jeff

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 23:37:48 2021
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 22:37:48 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] warner springs monte...
In-Reply-To: <35c2dfdc-751c-dad8-9053-e05089232d01@gmail.com>
References: <35c2dfdc-751c-dad8-9053-e05089232d01@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=h3FoGNXhj4AaWR1dhbV69CbjCJfSMirHGcNN4g=d8ofg@mail.gmail.com>

Jeff !

What's up?

First off... I must confess to outright lethargy in not answering your
message sooner. It's too easy to read something online and then zip off to
something else, with the FULL intention of rendering proper respect to
someone's effort later, yet stalling out in the grips of procrastination
and winding up resembling a loaf of soggy bread in one's efforts. THAT is
unfortunately the communications world most of us live in. Can I get an
Amen?

So, I thought I would list the subject matter contained in your post at the
PCT-L and comment accordingly.

You mention-

2005
Warner Springs Monte/Monty
central Oregon and the PCT trail
a spring
a hiker named "one gallon"
Timberline Lodge
15 SOBO thru hikers
Barlow Pass

OK- One at a time.

<<< 2005 >>>
Before my time. Actually, I was in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and hiking had
not yet entered my brain.

<<< Warner Springs Monte/Monty >>>
I met Warner Springs Monte/Monty near his home turf of... ready for it-
Warner Springs, CA. I can't really say when specifically, (2012-2016) but I
also met him at one or more of the ADZPCTKO's, at Lake Morena. I remember
meeting him on a stretch of the PCT in the San Felipe Hills, which would be
between mile 77 (Scissors Crossing) to about mile 101 (Barrel Springs).
Note: Monte/Monty is an acquired taste. No doubt about it. That being said,
I spent the night at his house as he was the consummate host/trail angel,
(Lake Henshaw) and was shushed into speaking quietly, several times, due to
his sensitivity to noises and loud mouths like me. Anyone that has been
shushed by Monte/Monty for speaking too loud will get my drift. By the way,
Monte/Monty hails from Illinois originally, as I do.

Note: I was offered a shower at Warner Spring Monte's/Monty's and took him
up on the offer. I will never forget the experience, because the shower tub
floor had zero slip precautions and in an instant I found myself writhing
in intense pain as I had slipped and fell down impacting the tub's design.
Injured, I chose to lay outside on his wooden deck in an effort to
rehabilitate myself in as quick a time frame as possible. Remember- I'm
still hiking while taking a zero at Monte's/Monty's.

In case any readers do not know it, Warner Springs Monte/Monty was
instrumental in convincing the Warner Springs Community Center to host PCT
hikers. This arrangement is a delicate one because the Community Center
shares physical property (land) with the local high school. What happened
next was that dirty and stinky hikers were washing themselves with a garden
hose out behind the Community Center, and some of them took liberties to
get liberated and this upset the school folks because children use the
property for their school rooms, rest rooms, and athletic fields. Now the
hikers were just being hikers and were scrubbing their bodies to get the
grime off themselves. Some were more discreet than others. I kept my
skivvies on while standing on a top of a plastic garbage can lid to keep my
feet out of the mud and washed my body using the direct spray garden hose
method. Later on, I washed the majority of my clothes in a wheelbarrow.

Due to the success of the Community Center, which ran a mini store and
cooked food for the hikers, the net proceeds allowed the members to expand
their kitchen with appliances, offer a decent menu of food for purchase,
build 2 wooden shower enclosures, add laundry services, and expand their
store inventory. Over time, the Center became too successful and caught the
ire of some of the school's teachers that were never in favor of the Center
helping hikers to the degree that they did do so, in the first place.

One day, the Federales visited the Center and found out that they were
operating without the requisite permits so all hell broke loose. The Center
had to scale back operations and discontinued some things and modified
others to enable them to limp along and morphed into whatever they are
today.

FWIW- The Warner Springs high school FFA ag team is well renowned for
raising championship Black Angus beef, winning interscholastic contests
against much larger schools throughout CA. Some of these docile (tasty)
beasts accompany hikers on their 2 mile clockwise circular hike around
Warner Springs.

Rumors being what they are, saying that other things happened and there
exists- some bad blood to this day... I'll just leave it at that for now. I
know more details but do not find them helpful in their revelation. So ends
my brief remarks on Warner Springs Monte/Monty.

<<< central Oregon and the PCT Trail >>>
OK, I was in OR. in mid NOV. and 2 feet of snow telegraphed a message to me
to get the hell off the trail. I was at McKenzie Pass and it was another 70
miles SOBO to Willamette Pass, in 2 feet of snow, or the other option was
15 miles down a paved road with diminishing depths of snow to Sisters, OR.
I bailed. I had the wrong type of gloves, the wrong sized gaiters, the
wrong kind of boots, and my tent fly was ripped from the skirt to the top
of the zipper. Easy call. Hello motel and hello AMTRAK.

<<< a spring >>>
Hiking south through "southern" Washington, (not Oregon) I ran out of water
3 days in a row. I had to hike an additional 10 miles each day to reach a
lake, where it was known that water existed. In the build up, I bypassed
multiple pools off the trail that held some stagnant water, but counted on
better water sources down the trail that never materialized. I had gone
from a rookie carrying too much water (2 gallons everywhere) (2012) to a
cocky "experienced" hiker (2015) only carrying a liter/quart of water and
got stung 3 days in a row. I opted for a minimum of 2 liters/quarts of
water for the remainder of my hike.

<<< a hiker named "one gallon" >>>
Regrettably, I do not know this hiker, but might know his motive for naming
himself "one gallon" which may be related to his compunction to carry water.

<<< Timberline Lodge >>>
I met a young man on the trail, from Norway. Seems he had a limited visa
and was determined to hike SOBO as far as he could get in the limited
amount of time he had in the USA. He was a Norwegian Special Forces
soldier, and a backcountry Norwegian forestry ranger. Due to the low
population of Norway, many public servants have to wear more than one hat.
This young man in his twenties wore two hats.

I was about to bust down financially, and intended to bypass Timberline
Lodge, until the youngster invited me to breakfast. The food was absolutely
divine and should not be bypassed by a single hiker, whether NOBO, or SOBO.
The mini egg souffles for breakfast were out of this world. We ate
breakfast and then loitered around until we could eat lunch. I found the
lodge's hiker box later in the day, but it was decimated and only held the
usual leftover oatmeal and tortilla basics.

My Norwegian friend reminded me of the fact that there was a 50 mile
challenge ahead. It seems that OR is so flat in this region that some
hikers try to hike 50 miles in 24 hours. He left the lodge around 3 PM, and
I left around 5 PM, in a 50 mile quest, although I was probably the least
enthusiastic at that point. I left about dark and hiked until about 10PM
covering about 10 miles. I crossed Barlow Pass, and sent a message to a
friend noting the area that I was in at the time. The next day I decided to
try and cover 40 miles so I kicked it into gear. At around midnight I came
upon my new found friend's tent, and learned that he had gotten blisters
from his new shoes that had not been broken in prior to him using them.

The next day we both hiked into Olallie Lake in a downpour. He beat me
there and left a note for me, on a box of food that the proprietors had
left trailside for the hikers. Olallie resort was closed for the season and
the food was all ours. My friend took half, and left me the rest. It rained
so hard that I sought refuge in a port a potty. Afters hours of constant
rain, I attempted to open my tent in the port a potty, attempting to speed
up the set up time and hopefully diminishing the time I would spend getting
rained on setting it up outside, when in fact the whole process turned into
a nightmare... (because) by the time I got my tent set up outside and the
fly on, everything that I owed at that point was soaking wet. It was the
worst night I ever had sleeping sopping wet, and yet I was inside a tent. I
had to curl up in a fetal position and shiver myself to sleep. After dozens
of sleep interruptions, the sun came out and I was able to dry
everything out and receive the heat of the sun.

<<< 15 SOBO thru hikers >>>
I southbounded from Canada, after first hiking 32 miles north to get there
from Harts Pass, and I thoroughly enjoyed every single NOBO hiker that I
met once I headed south. I left Harts Pass on July 10th. Somewhere south, I
began to meet the premier athletic PCT NOBO hikers on their race north to
Canada. I never met the first hiker to Canada, but I met # 2 thru # 99, or
what appeared to be all of the front runners. I met one hiker that was
trying to do all of Washington in 14 days. I took 93 days! LMAO! Anyway, I
asked him how his hike is going and he says to me that he is just ready for
his hike to be over. I thought to myself- what a terrible attitude!

<<< Barlow Pass >>>
I made mention of this area in one of my previous comments upthread, but I
remember forcing myself to hike at night in this area, to make up for the
time that I was behind a hiking companion, and in hindsight, I say screw
hiking at night if you do not want to hike at night, and just hike your own
hike.

All the best-

Paint (Paint Your Wagon)

PS I have my PCT SOBO permit in hand and will be leaving Kennedy Mdws.
south (Mar 1st) heading for the US MX border (Apr 30th).





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On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 8:35 PM Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:

> There have been a couple blips on the listserv lately.  I'm curious what
> Warner Springs Monte is up to.
>
> I was camped at a spring below the trail in central oregon. He, and
> another famous 2005 hiker (one gallon?) were moving south on the trail.
> They were debating the ethical reality of trail angels as they hiked.  I
> lay on my bed and listened/watched them walk by.
>
> I remember walking down into the Timberline lodge and like 15 SOBO thrus
> were eating breakfast.  I felt alienated and continued walking. I camped
> not far below Barlow Pass.  Everyone passed me over the next couple
> days.  I think Monte was part of that group.
>
> Jeff
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 00:28:11 2021
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 23:28:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l]  PCTA Communicator Magazines
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jtd1UKF-Z3ZT11VB6FNp3cmEqZwsXSoW=nxUDUjBFPVA@mail.gmail.com>

>>> I'm moving and have decided as part of that process of downsizing to offer up my collection of 2009 to present collection of the PCTA Communicator.  I possess over 60 issues including many of the annual calendars with it's beautiful photography.  These are in excellent or better condition other than blacking out of my personal address information.
So here's the deal.  In exchange for a donation of $75 to the PCTA
($75 minus shipping goes to the PCTA) you will get the whole
collection sent via media mail.  Please contact me off-list if
interested.

Thumper aka Dan C <<<

Thumper-

I have an idea...

How about I offer up a "bid" for your collection. You have something
really special by the way. I'll pledge an additional $100 on top of
your asking price of $75, so if you are so inclined, the PCTA can reap
a bit more for your selfless act. I'll offer $175 for the whole kit
and kaboodle. Maybe someone else will take a shot at the top bid and
push it a little into the green column. Name a bid ending date and let
the chips fall where they may. Say a week from now? Feb. 24th?

All the best,

Paint



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From baidarker at gmail.com  Thu Feb 18 11:20:28 2021
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:20:28 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Communicator Magazines
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jtd1UKF-Z3ZT11VB6FNp3cmEqZwsXSoW=nxUDUjBFPVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=jtd1UKF-Z3ZT11VB6FNp3cmEqZwsXSoW=nxUDUjBFPVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj13_d0i2fPG3jwupsK3PRx-VqOxb6anwH7TevJd8UJToiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Good for you guys!  I've got 'em, or I'd be bidding too.

Shroomer

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> >>> I'm moving and have decided as part of that process of downsizing to
> offer up my collection of 2009 to present collection of the PCTA
> Communicator.  I possess over 60 issues including many of the annual
> calendars with it's beautiful photography.  These are in excellent or
> better condition other than blacking out of my personal address information.
> So here's the deal.  In exchange for a donation of $75 to the PCTA
> ($75 minus shipping goes to the PCTA) you will get the whole
> collection sent via media mail.  Please contact me off-list if
> interested.
>
> Thumper aka Dan C <<<
>
> Thumper-
>
> I have an idea...
>
> How about I offer up a "bid" for your collection. You have something
> really special by the way. I'll pledge an additional $100 on top of
> your asking price of $75, so if you are so inclined, the PCTA can reap
> a bit more for your selfless act. I'll offer $175 for the whole kit
> and kaboodle. Maybe someone else will take a shot at the top bid and
> push it a little into the green column. Name a bid ending date and let
> the chips fall where they may. Say a week from now? Feb. 24th?
>
> All the best,
>
> Paint
>
>
>
> <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From dofdear at cox.net  Thu Feb 18 11:35:25 2021
From: dofdear at cox.net (Thumper aka dofdear)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 09:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Communicator Magazines
In-Reply-To: <1603415632.399515.1612909133930@myemail.cox.net>
References: <1603415632.399515.1612909133930@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <708325999.577373.1613669725310@myemail.cox.net>

I am please to report that Paint YW offered to acquire the PCTA Communicator Magazines and the PCTA donation was net $154.12 and sent.  I personally appreciate his generosity.

In email exchange with Paint we discussed pushing the magazines forward under a similar format.  He may or may not do that as he may wish to retain for his personal pleasure.  Think trail porn, my thought not his.  Anyway my point is that as we go through our stuff, like all the hiking and backpacking equipment we all accumulate as we journey toward UL, consider selling on a platform like eBay, FB Marketplace, Offer-Up, etc., or a simple post here, and donating the net proceeds to the PCTA or some other worthy cause. (wow, talk about a run-on sentence)  Let's face it most of this stuff is just sitting in our storage bins and closets never to be use again.  Others can benefit from your hidden treasures.

Good reading Paint and thanks again.

Dan C aka Thumper


> On February 9, 2021 at 2:18 PM Thumper aka dofdear <dofdear at cox.net> wrote:
> 
>      
>     I'm moving and have decided as part of that process of downsizing to offer up my collection of 2009 to present collection of the PCTA Communicator.  I possess over 60 issues including many of the annual calendars with it's beautiful photography.  These are in excellent or better condition other than blacking out of my personal address information.
>     So here's the deal.  In exchange for a donation of $75 to the PCTA ($75 minus shipping goes to the PCTA) you will get the whole collection sent via media mail.  Please contact me off-list if interested.
> 
>     Thumper aka Dan C
> 




From pctl at oakapple.net  Thu Feb 18 14:34:30 2021
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 12:34:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] old stuff in our closets
Message-ID: <202102182034.11IKYUD7013480@server-f.oakapple.net>

> most of this stuff is just sitting in our storage bins and closets never to be used again

Now that's an old man conversation for sure.     One I'm engaged in often.
My 12 point crampons and the boots that fit them.    I'm not front pointing
up anything now.   I never did, actually, though I did use them more routinely
a lot - 50 years ago.     And my beautiful Simond Super D wooden ice axe.
And my JanSport D2.    And a whole closet of fishing gear.
And all those white gas and Bleuet stoves.

The odds are I'll never use any of this stuff again, but I hate the IDEA
that I won't ever again have even the OPTION of using them again!
Somebody will eventually have to deal with them, and I would do my heirs
a favor by getting rid of as much as possible while I can.
That's what my father did for me.

And then I remember my Summits - about twenty years of Summit's heyday in the
1970's and 1980's before the old ladies sold out and it got slick.
I think they got thrown out, possibly by mistake, and it makes me sad because
they would be worth something - but there was no way I'd every dig them out
and reread them.

In contrast, I at least yearly have occasion to look at the 1974 first edition
of the Wilderness Press guidebooks to see how the trail evolved from a vague
route and roads to its current much more complete state.   There were huge
gaps from Campo to Crabtree Meadow and Tahoe to Lake of the Woods.
Does anybody ever try to rehike the 1974 route?

Anyway I've decided the emotional content is not so much the throwing
away of old things as the feeling of throwing away of the part of my life 
that they were attached to.    
These things were attached to my life.  
But my life was not attached to these things.

Yet we old guys know we are all going to lose it all in the not too distant 
future.     
None of this old stuff means anything to my kids.

David Hough


From moodyjj at comcast.net  Thu Feb 18 14:50:56 2021
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (JAMES MOODY)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 15:50:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pct-l] PCTA Communicator Magazines
In-Reply-To: <708325999.577373.1613669725310@myemail.cox.net>
References: <1603415632.399515.1612909133930@myemail.cox.net>
 <708325999.577373.1613669725310@myemail.cox.net>
Message-ID: <1979870020.26573.1613681456699@connect.xfinity.com>

Another possibility is donating to local Scout troops.  I've given a few things to the neighborhood Scouts, stuff they can use without having to invest a lot in good gear.

Mango
> On 02/18/2021 12:35 PM Thumper aka dofdear <dofdear at cox.net> wrote:
> 
>  
> I am please to report that Paint YW offered to acquire the PCTA Communicator Magazines and the PCTA donation was net $154.12 and sent.  I personally appreciate his generosity.
> 
> In email exchange with Paint we discussed pushing the magazines forward under a similar format.  He may or may not do that as he may wish to retain for his personal pleasure.  Think trail porn, my thought not his.  Anyway my point is that as we go through our stuff, like all the hiking and backpacking equipment we all accumulate as we journey toward UL, consider selling on a platform like eBay, FB Marketplace, Offer-Up, etc., or a simple post here, and donating the net proceeds to the PCTA or some other worthy cause. (wow, talk about a run-on sentence)  Let's face it most of this stuff is just sitting in our storage bins and closets never to be use again.  Others can benefit from your hidden treasures.
> 
> Good reading Paint and thanks again.
> 
> Dan C aka Thumper
> 
> 
> > On February 9, 2021 at 2:18 PM Thumper aka dofdear <dofdear at cox.net> wrote:
> > 
> >      
> >     I'm moving and have decided as part of that process of downsizing to offer up my collection of 2009 to present collection of the PCTA Communicator.  I possess over 60 issues including many of the annual calendars with it's beautiful photography.  These are in excellent or better condition other than blacking out of my personal address information.
> >     So here's the deal.  In exchange for a donation of $75 to the PCTA ($75 minus shipping goes to the PCTA) you will get the whole collection sent via media mail.  Please contact me off-list if interested.
> > 
> >     Thumper aka Dan C
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From susan at newstories.org  Thu Feb 18 20:28:29 2021
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 18:28:29 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] old stuff in our closets
In-Reply-To: <202102182034.11IKYUD7013480@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202102182034.11IKYUD7013480@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <etPan.602f2252.755d18f.503@newstories.org>

Thank you, David, for these musings? I am 72 and still have the 6 pound (!!!) mountaineering boots with which I summited Mt. Hood in 1976 and was turned back at 10,000 feet (Camp Muir) on Mt. Rainier by 90 mile/hour winds. ?Ill-advised by a local gear shop employee, I hiked my first 100 mile solo on the North Cascades PCT in those boots.

How blessed we are that we?ve been privileged to spend this time in the mountains!

?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)


On February 18, 2021 at 12:34:41 PM, David Hough reading PCT-L (pctl at oakapple.net) wrote:

> most of this stuff is just sitting in our storage bins and closets never to be used again  

Now that's an old man conversation for sure. One I'm engaged in often.  
My 12 point crampons and the boots that fit them. I'm not front pointing  
up anything now. I never did, actually, though I did use them more routinely  
a lot - 50 years ago. And my beautiful Simond Super D wooden ice axe.  
And my JanSport D2. And a whole closet of fishing gear.  
And all those white gas and Bleuet stoves.  

The odds are I'll never use any of this stuff again, but I hate the IDEA  
that I won't ever again have even the OPTION of using them again!  
Somebody will eventually have to deal with them, and I would do my heirs  
a favor by getting rid of as much as possible while I can.  
That's what my father did for me.  

And then I remember my Summits - about twenty years of Summit's heyday in the  
1970's and 1980's before the old ladies sold out and it got slick.  
I think they got thrown out, possibly by mistake, and it makes me sad because  
they would be worth something - but there was no way I'd every dig them out  
and reread them.  

In contrast, I at least yearly have occasion to look at the 1974 first edition  
of the Wilderness Press guidebooks to see how the trail evolved from a vague  
route and roads to its current much more complete state. There were huge  
gaps from Campo to Crabtree Meadow and Tahoe to Lake of the Woods.  
Does anybody ever try to rehike the 1974 route?  

Anyway I've decided the emotional content is not so much the throwing  
away of old things as the feeling of throwing away of the part of my life  
that they were attached to.  
These things were attached to my life.  
But my life was not attached to these things.  

Yet we old guys know we are all going to lose it all in the not too distant  
future.  
None of this old stuff means anything to my kids.  

David Hough  

_______________________________________________  
Pct-L mailing list  
Pct-L at backcountry.net  
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:  
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l  

List Archives:  
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/  
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.  
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.  

From pmb379 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 02:07:40 2021
From: pmb379 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Peer_B=C3=B6hm?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2021 09:07:40 +0100
Subject: [pct-l] old stuff in our closets
In-Reply-To: <202102182034.11IKYUD7013480@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202102182034.11IKYUD7013480@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <CAHYv0mj2YZvZzYrdOuRt=fqfgJz=XEuy-J7UpXESzCk8QTSbnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

> Anyway I've decided the emotional content is not so much the throwing
away of old things as the feeling of throwing away of the part of my life
that they were attached to.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I think.

Getting rid of things that once meant something (and looking back into the
past still kind of do) is a sad thing. It feels at the moment like throwing
out a part of oneself, old memories, that made oneself as one is now in a
way.

But after it's done, it can be liberating. Making room for new things and
experiences.

Occasionally I have regretted later, having gotten rid of something in the
past. But mostly, once a thing is gone, it felt better. I think it's a kind
of grieving process, in a way.

The old stuff and the old experiences might fade away with the years, but
they are still and will always be present in what we have become through
them. The essence stays and devolops on and on.

As it's said - tradition is not the keeping the ashes, but passing the
flame.

And the flame will never go away, and will never be thrown out.

Regards,
Peer

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Sun Feb 21 17:07:42 2021
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (JimLBanks at verizon.net)
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2021 15:07:42 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bike Spring
References: <000001d708a6$5c3a0aa0$14ae1fe0$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000001d708a6$5c3a0aa0$14ae1fe0$@verizon.net>

Hi everyone, I-Beam here.  I have a question for the really old timers on
this list.  As many of you know I am a crew leader for the Cajon Pass
Chapter of the Trail Gorillas.  We are looking into trying to rehabilitate
old springs along the PCT that have fallen into disrepair and/or dried up
and are no longer in use.  One such spring is Bike Spring at mile 347.3.
This is ? mile trail north of Swarthout Canyon Road.  I first hiked that
section in 2008 and it was out of repair and had no water then and since
then there has been no water.  Half-mile?s trail notes has always indicated
that it was ?always dry.?  The spring is only twenty yards or so off the
trail and it is right across from the trail register box.  There is a
concrete box where a pipe comes in from uphill, but no water.    We think
the water source may still be viable because the brush is much thicker
there, indicating some ground water.  So my question to everyone is:  When
was the last time this spring had water?  We are trying to work with the
Forest Service to get some background information about this spring, but
there doesn?t seem to be much interest in helping us.  We are hoping to
instigate a renewed interest in rehabbing springs all up and down the trial
so we can get rid of some of the water caches.

 

We cleaned up and rehabilitated Guffy Spring last year just before we got
shut down because of Covid.  We also did some maintenance on the side trail
that leads down to the spring from the PCT.  It is a steep trail.  We are
going to focus on trying to keep Guffy Spring maintained.  

 

Also just to let you know, 2020 was a tough year for trail maintenance
because of Covid.  We were able to work on an off and on basis depending on
the shut-down level.  With all the restrictions we have not been able to
have large crews.  From March of 2020 to current all the maintenance in our
section has been done by the three crew leaders.  We were able to brush the
16.7 miles from Swarthout Canyon Road to the boundary of the San Bernardino
NF and the Angeles NF.  We had to stop there because the Angeles NF has shut
down all maintenance since March, 2020.  It was a huge undertaking for 3
guys.  This section had not been brushed in 10 years and there were many
areas with Poodle Dog Bush and poison oak.  But it is in good shape now for
this year?s hikers.  We are currently working on the section between the 15
Freeway and Swarthout Canyon Road.

 

If anyone has any information about Bike spring, please let me know.
Thanks,

I-Beam


From barg at shaw.ca  Mon Feb 22 12:34:19 2021
From: barg at shaw.ca (Marvin and Shirley Barg)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:34:19 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 138, Issue 11
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000001d70949$560cc8e0$02265aa0$@shaw.ca>

I feel compelled to respond. I Beam and others, your perseverance/commitment
to trail maintenance in troubling times and with little to no recognition,
is an example of the best of humanity. I thank YOU for clearing the path
that awaits me in 2021. GK 


Today's Topics:

   1. Bike Spring (JimLBanks at verizon.net)


----------------------------------------------------------------------


 



From rbalcorn at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 12:36:59 2021
From: rbalcorn at gmail.com (Ralph Alcorn)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 10:36:59 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 138, Issue 11
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CAAAw1RQ2WezHZjNBVp4Z+gkJ4SscUkcMUJRDsGrLrSeA_qunAA@mail.gmail.com>

Re: Bike Spring. I have a note that on Apr 23, 2007 it was dry. The
pctwater report in the wayback machine for 2004 does not list Bike Spring
as a water source.


>

-- 
Ralph Alcorn
backpack45.com, timecheck00.blogspot.com
Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of*: Walk, Hike, Saunter: Seasoned Women
Share Tales and Trails, Healing Miles: Gifts from the Caminos Norte and
Primitivo, Patagonia Chronicle: On Foot in Torres del Paine*,* Camino
Chronicle: Walking to Santiago,** We're in the Mountains, Not Over the
Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned Women Backpackers*

From gary at hbfun.org  Mon Feb 22 13:24:48 2021
From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 11:24:48 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bike Spring
In-Reply-To: <000001d708a6$5c3a0aa0$14ae1fe0$@verizon.net>
References: <000001d708a6$5c3a0aa0$14ae1fe0$.ref@verizon.net>
 <000001d708a6$5c3a0aa0$14ae1fe0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <b472189d31c6d659992ddbc51efdb2d2@hbfun.org>

I-Beam, thanks for what you do!

When I locate them, I'll check my old guides, but it seems like Bike 
Springs has always been described as unreliable going back to the '80s.

Gary


On 21.02.2021 15:07, JimLBanks at verizon.net wrote:
> Hi everyone, I-Beam here.  I have a question for the really old timers 
> on
> this list.  As many of you know I am a crew leader for the Cajon Pass
> Chapter of the Trail Gorillas.  We are looking into trying to 
> rehabilitate
> old springs along the PCT that have fallen into disrepair and/or dried 
> up
> and are no longer in use.  One such spring is Bike Spring at mile 
> 347.3.
> This is ? mile trail north of Swarthout Canyon Road.  I first hiked 
> that
> section in 2008 and it was out of repair and had no water then and 
> since
> then there has been no water.  Half-mile?s trail notes has always 
> indicated
> that it was ?always dry.?  The spring is only twenty yards or so off 
> the
> trail and it is right across from the trail register box.  There is a
> concrete box where a pipe comes in from uphill, but no water.    We 
> think
> the water source may still be viable because the brush is much thicker
> there, indicating some ground water.  So my question to everyone is:  
> When
> was the last time this spring had water?  We are trying to work with 
> the
> Forest Service to get some background information about this spring, 
> but
> there doesn?t seem to be much interest in helping us.  We are hoping to
> instigate a renewed interest in rehabbing springs all up and down the 
> trial
> so we can get rid of some of the water caches.
> 
> 
> 
> We cleaned up and rehabilitated Guffy Spring last year just before we 
> got
> shut down because of Covid.  We also did some maintenance on the side 
> trail
> that leads down to the spring from the PCT.  It is a steep trail.  We 
> are
> going to focus on trying to keep Guffy Spring maintained.
> 
> 
> 
> Also just to let you know, 2020 was a tough year for trail maintenance
> because of Covid.  We were able to work on an off and on basis 
> depending on
> the shut-down level.  With all the restrictions we have not been able 
> to
> have large crews.  From March of 2020 to current all the maintenance in 
> our
> section has been done by the three crew leaders.  We were able to brush 
> the
> 16.7 miles from Swarthout Canyon Road to the boundary of the San 
> Bernardino
> NF and the Angeles NF.  We had to stop there because the Angeles NF has 
> shut
> down all maintenance since March, 2020.  It was a huge undertaking for 
> 3
> guys.  This section had not been brushed in 10 years and there were 
> many
> areas with Poodle Dog Bush and poison oak.  But it is in good shape now 
> for
> this year?s hikers.  We are currently working on the section between 
> the 15
> Freeway and Swarthout Canyon Road.
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone has any information about Bike spring, please let me know.
> Thanks,
> 
> I-Beam
> 
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From temp3 at mflan.com  Mon Feb 22 18:48:14 2021
From: temp3 at mflan.com (Mike)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 18:48:14 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Bike Spring
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <1279acdd-0133-046b-909b-fdd8252d8a24@mflan.com>


Bike Spring approx location:
341737N1173032W
34.29361000, -117.50889000
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.29361,+-117.50889+%28Coordinates%29&iwloc=A&hl=en

Guffy Spring approx location:
342035N1173915W
34.343008,-117.654092
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.34301,+-117.65409+%28Coordinates%29&iwloc=A&hl=en



Mike



On 2/22/21 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> Hi everyone, I-Beam here.  I have a question for the really old timers on
> this list.  As many of you know I am a crew leader for the Cajon Pass
> Chapter of the Trail Gorillas.  We are looking into trying to rehabilitate
> old springs along the PCT that have fallen into disrepair and/or dried up
> and are no longer in use.  One such spring is Bike Spring at mile 347.3.
> This is ? mile trail north of Swarthout Canyon Road.  I first hiked that
> section in 2008 and it was out of repair and had no water then and since
> then there has been no water.  Half-mile?s trail notes has always indicated
> that it was ?always dry.?  The spring is only twenty yards or so off the
> trail and it is right across from the trail register box.  There is a
> concrete box where a pipe comes in from uphill, but no water.    We think
> the water source may still be viable because the brush is much thicker
> there, indicating some ground water.  So my question to everyone is:  When
> was the last time this spring had water?  We are trying to work with the
> Forest Service to get some background information about this spring, but
> there doesn?t seem to be much interest in helping us.  We are hoping to
> instigate a renewed interest in rehabbing springs all up and down the trial
> so we can get rid of some of the water caches.


From carlito at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 01:36:40 2021
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 23:36:40 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bike Spring
In-Reply-To: <1279acdd-0133-046b-909b-fdd8252d8a24@mflan.com>
References: <mailman.1.1614016825.84241.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <1279acdd-0133-046b-909b-fdd8252d8a24@mflan.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7VmhiA2QuKC25ucBjXrdmuMY44QjQXMRtH_Yc8vfRErRvw@mail.gmail.com>

I assume you've read the description from the Wilderness Press guidebooks:

   - The first edition (1974) describes two alternate routes in that area,
   but neither goes by the spring.
   - The first mention is in the second edition (1977): "Two
   concrete-tubbed springs are found just yards north, but their polluted
   nature relegates them to emergency use only."
   - The third edition (1982) names the spring and expands the description:
   "Two concrete tubs at Bike Springs are found just yards north, but their
   polluted nature relegates them to emergency use only. A horse camp is
   planned here for later years."
   - Next one in my collection is the sixth edition (2003): "Two vandalized
   concrete tubs at Bike Springs are found just yards north, but they have
   been dry more often than not in recent years. Even when water is running,
   its heavily polluted nature relegates it to emergency use only. Four white
   PVC pipes have been driven here in the dry wash, and will eventually be
   developed as a well, hopefully with a horse camp. No reliable water is
   available yet, as of Spring 2002."

I hiked that section of trail in 1981 (in '77, we took the temporary route
that took us a little further up Lone Pine Canyon before ascending Lytle
Creek Ridge), but don't recall anything about a spring. Sorry.

Good luck on reviving the springs and losing the caches. Thanks for your
hard work, I-Beam!

Cheers,
Carl
One of the 1977 PCT Kelty Kids

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 4:48 PM Mike <temp3 at mflan.com> wrote:

>
> Bike Spring approx location:
> 341737N1173032W
> 34.29361000, -117.50889000
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.29361,+-117.50889+%28Coordinates%29&iwloc=A&hl=en
>
> Guffy Spring approx location:
> 342035N1173915W
> 34.343008,-117.654092
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.34301,+-117.65409+%28Coordinates%29&iwloc=A&hl=en
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 2/22/21 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> > Hi everyone, I-Beam here.  I have a question for the really old timers on
> > this list.  As many of you know I am a crew leader for the Cajon Pass
> > Chapter of the Trail Gorillas.  We are looking into trying to
> rehabilitate
> > old springs along the PCT that have fallen into disrepair and/or dried up
> > and are no longer in use.  One such spring is Bike Spring at mile 347.3.
> > This is ? mile trail north of Swarthout Canyon Road.  I first hiked that
> > section in 2008 and it was out of repair and had no water then and since
> > then there has been no water.  Half-mile?s trail notes has always
> indicated
> > that it was ?always dry.?  The spring is only twenty yards or so off the
> > trail and it is right across from the trail register box.  There is a
> > concrete box where a pipe comes in from uphill, but no water.    We think
> > the water source may still be viable because the brush is much thicker
> > there, indicating some ground water.  So my question to everyone is:
> When
> > was the last time this spring had water?  We are trying to work with the
> > Forest Service to get some background information about this spring, but
> > there doesn?t seem to be much interest in helping us.  We are hoping to
> > instigate a renewed interest in rehabbing springs all up and down the
> trial
> > so we can get rid of some of the water caches.
>
>
>

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Tue Feb 23 13:31:42 2021
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (JimLBanks at verizon.net)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 11:31:42 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bike Spring
References: <000601d70a1a$8463f610$8d2be230$.ref@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <000601d70a1a$8463f610$8d2be230$@verizon.net>

Hi Carl.  Yes, I have read the information in the Wilderness Press Guide.
The  6th Edition, Second printing Feb. 2007 is the one I have.  It is
interesting that it says there are two concrete "tubs."  So far we have
found only one.  Also the 4 white PVC pipes are nowhere to be found,
although the brush is very thick and may be hiding them.  I remember As A
Bat telling me about the original plans for the trail that was going to
include drilling numerous wells to supply water, but it never happened to
any great extent.  Another unanswered question is the reference to the
polluted nature of the water.  I don't know what would be causing any
pollution there.  There may have been cattle grazing there at some point,
but not for many years now, probably decades.  This is the type of
background information that we are trying to get from the Forest Service but
no luck so far.  I think there is no one that works for the Forest Service
now days that has been around long enough to remember anything about the
spring.  I wonder if any of the authors of the Wilderness Press Guide would
be able to help?  Anyone know how to contact them?  I will send an email to
Wilderness Press to see if they can be of any help.

 

I-Beam


From carlito at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 18:53:42 2021
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 16:53:42 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Bike Spring
In-Reply-To: <000601d70a1a$8463f610$8d2be230$@verizon.net>
References: <000601d70a1a$8463f610$8d2be230$.ref@verizon.net>
 <000601d70a1a$8463f610$8d2be230$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7VkWaxRidZ9HUxo_eJxf_g7_koGRtf-ex72u95tv8DUAQg@mail.gmail.com>

Unfortunately, most of the folks directly involved with the earliest
Southern California guidebooks are gone:

   - Tom Winnett
   - John Robinson
   - J.C. Jenkins

AFAIK, Jeff Schaffer and Ben Schifrin are still around, but I no longer
have contact info for them. Jeff was more involved in mapping and in parts
north. Ben would be the guy to track down; although I don't think he wasn't
involved in the first edition, he was the lead author on Section D in
subsequent editions.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:31 AM <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:

> I wonder if any of the authors of the Wilderness Press Guide would be able
> to help?  Anyone know how to contact them?  I will send an email to
> Wilderness Press to see if they can be of any help.
>
>
>
>