From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 13:06:13 2018
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (sdscpcts)
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2018 11:06:13 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Two possible hikes, 566-602 or 190-179
In-Reply-To: <CAEnMNWUWfXr-kGr+FyCkvQ_FwSFW0ejTFwG9or=KsqVkhrV-4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.6.1536170777.53966.pct-l@backcountry.net>

Ron,
? ? ?It sounds like the Cranston Fire closed areas south of the South Ridge Trail, but from the Devil's Slide Trail north it is open.?
? ? ?I recommend doing the second hike from the Jawbone Canyon Road south to Highway 58. Less uphill that way. Bring a couple of feet of plastic tubing to capture water from the spring for your water bottles.
? ? ? ?Rob?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: Ron Graybill <rgraybill44 at gmail.com> Date: 8/30/18  1:07 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] Two possible hikes, 566-602 or 190-179 
Still whittling away at the PCT, interested in possible hiking partner to
hike one or both of these sections in mid to late September, weather
permitting:

1. One day, 13 miles, southbound from Fuller Ridge (190.5) to Devil's Slide
Trail at 179.4, and thence down the 2.6 miles on Devil's Slide Trail to
Humber Park in Idylwild. (Provided Cranston Fire did not close Devil's
Slide Trail).

2. Three days, 36 miles (dry--unless Golden Oak Spring is still running)
northbound from Highway 58 west of Mojave, CA, (566) to Jawbone Canyon Road
at Mile 602.

If interested, I'll discuss logistics with you.

Ron "Slow Charger" Graybill
Ontario, CA
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From jtpapini at icloud.com  Mon Sep 10 04:45:55 2018
From: jtpapini at icloud.com (John Papini)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:45:55 +0400
Subject: [pct-l] Couples Thru Hiking
Message-ID: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>

Hello fellow PCT-L ers. After two years off (my first thru hike was in 2016) I am ready to return in 2019, this time with my fianc?e. Hoping to get some advice from the group about couples hiking, in terms of habits on trail, setting expectations, gear choices, etc. 

So far:

1. We will be using a 2 person ee quilt, which she will carry. I will carry the tent.

2. Otherwise our gear will be separate. We will each carry our own water filters, food, stoves, etc.

3. If one of us wants to stop for a break or for the day, we?ll stop. The faster of us will accommodate the slower. 

What else? Should we look into some kind of two way radio? 

Any other advice?

Thanks!

Woodstock


Sent from my iPhone - please excuse any typographical errors!

From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Sep 10 09:45:29 2018
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 07:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Labor Day on the JMT
Message-ID: <201809101445.w8AEjTst001714@server-f.oakapple.net>


I finished up my eight-year bits-and-pieces rehike of the JMT over
Labor Day.    As one might expect, the trail was in fine shape - no tree
problems - even on the Goodale Pass access and Florence Lake exit trails.
Even the trail up to the lowest Graveyard Lake was clear.

What the trails were not was easy on elderly joints.    Lots of steep steps
are just part of the equation.    Objectively I don't suppose they were worse
than before, but they seem steeper.

One can expect lots of company on the JMT over Labor Day.    I had company
at all the pre-existing campsites I used, though I made my own campsite
on the way out to Florence Lake.    

I had hoped to celebrate by spending my last night at Muir Trail Ranch,
and got on a waiting list a week in advance, but no luck, it was full.
It was an amazing beehive of activity of through hikers resupplying - in
this case JMT through hikers, as northbound PCT through hikers were long
gone and southbound, if any, were not due for a while.
Halfway through, the Sierra Afternoon Thunderstorm pattern started up.
There was one good hail attack but on the whole it was pretty mild
and over in an hour or so, per spec.

But I enjoyed good food and cold beer and hot showers at VVR before and after.
The most exciting part of the trip was driving out on a weekday among
working trucks, some hauling trailers, meeting head on in a very narrow
section of the road.    I'll be glad not to do that drive again.

Now I can finish the Tahoe Rim Trail, and
redo the PCT up to about Snoqualmie Pass.
But I think getting around Glacier Peak is getting to be too great an
exertion to do again, or the cross-country parts of the Tahoe-Yosemite Trail;
likewise the High Sierra Trail which I never did - or for that
matter the Sierra High Route.    I think I'll limit myself to three nights
at a time next year, and probably less the following year.

When I was young I thought it was funny
how old people were terrified of falling.    I'm not laughing any more.

 http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/resources.html



From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 10:59:33 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:59:33 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Couples Thru Hiking
In-Reply-To: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
References: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <ec3917a1-a27e-ad55-1b5d-5f9d1499ddde@gmail.com>

I hiked a section over 30 days (Lassen to Hwy 50) with my fiancee in 
1992.? We had two sleeping bags we used as quilts - so that seems 
reasonable.? We carried only one filter (never use one now - iodine 
tablets are lighter).? I disliked filtering water so she did that while 
I set up the kitchen and bedroom.? We didn't use the tent except for 
nights rain threatened.

As I think about it, if you're going to bring only one quilt and one 
tent, then there is no need to double up on anything else.? Keep the 
weight down.? If one of you needs to leave the trail, it's likely both 
of you will.? Talk about this.

She'd never hiked with a pack before so I taught her everything she 
knew, and for that trip, we worked really well together.? I am a morning 
person and she was an afternoon person.

We carried each other emotionally through the ups and downs of the day.? 
This deserves discussion before hitting the trail I think. Hiking 
styles, how to deal with emotionality - I learned in this trip not to 
try and "fix" her moods - something men tend to do. Good lesson anyway.

Being together 24/7 will likely be new, and being self-conscious of 
what's developing as a "couple" is paramount.? The coupling learning 
curve steepens and accelerates.? I remember being off-balance a lot of 
the time as stuff came up for me, and between us.? We'd agreed to marry, 
and didn't in the end, but not because of this trip.? We'd been together 
for eight months or so, living together for six. Planning for the trip - 
three months - and the trip extended the honeymoon period.

Perhaps the funniest experience was both of us getting explosive 
diahrrea for an evening.? Talk about another level of intimacy.

Her Dad was dying of cancer so there was a whole other dimension we 
dealt with along with the intense closeness.

This was pre-lightweight/ultralight days and our packs were way too heavy.

Generally we kept each other in sight, and I always brought up the 
rear.? I think an inReach is a better investment in weight than a 
radio.? If she got ahead and out of sight, she'd stop at every junction 
and wait for me - usually not more than five or 10 minutes.? That was a 
hard and fast rule.

It turns out she reads topo maps far better than me (this is way before 
phones/gps on the trail).? She became our navigator.? There were a bunch 
of places back then the trail cut through new swaths of logging - 
sometimes a half mile wide - and she was able to look at the map, 
compass and point to where the trail would pick up in the first.? 
Invariable, she was right.? I was amazed, and my second guessing was 
almost always wrong.

Over time she started making suggestions/options and developed leader 
karma.? That was fine with me - I loved how she blossomed over the weeks.

We had mini-discussions at the first couple creek crossings about how to 
cross, and we ALWAYS crossed together.? We spent the first 10 days 
drinking multiple cups of coffee first thing in the morning and getting 
in long winded discussions so that we'd seldom leave camp before nine, 
sometimes after 10.? We limited coffee to one cup in the morning and 
chuckled when we throttled weaving our points of view.? The honeymoon.

Mostly, I learned I needed to be more self-aware and self-conscious than 
I had been before.? The 24/7 nature of hiking together accelerated 
coupling...

Jeff
Laramie, WY



On 9/10/2018 3:45 AM, John Papini wrote:
> Hello fellow PCT-L ers. After two years off (my first thru hike was in 2016) I am ready to return in 2019, this time with my fianc?e. Hoping to get some advice from the group about couples hiking, in terms of habits on trail, setting expectations, gear choices, etc.
>
> So far:
>
> 1. We will be using a 2 person ee quilt, which she will carry. I will carry the tent.
>
> 2. Otherwise our gear will be separate. We will each carry our own water filters, food, stoves, etc.
>
> 3. If one of us wants to stop for a break or for the day, we?ll stop. The faster of us will accommodate the slower.
>
> What else? Should we look into some kind of two way radio?
>
> Any other advice?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Woodstock
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone - please excuse any typographical errors!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Sep 10 11:29:16 2018
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:29:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] digestive upsets
Message-ID: <201809101629.w8AGTGQ5002683@server-f.oakapple.net>

Jeff wrote:

> Perhaps the funniest experience was both of us getting explosive 
> diarrhea for an evening.   Talk about another level of intimacy.

A couple of years ago I wrote about my own digestive upsets.    They always
started on the third day of a trip and ended within a few hours after getting
back to the car.    I had all kinds of hypotheses.   Obviously it was
something specifically to do with backpacking, and something specific to me -
other people eating the same food, drinking the same treated water, getting
the same exercise - never had any symptoms.    Imodium seemed to have no
effect until the trip was done, when I didn't need it any more; then too
much effect.

This year I thought I'd figured it out - I'd been using Polarpure elemental
iodine solution since 2001 as an aftertreatment after pumping through an
MSR filter.   It had the advantage of cleaning up everything along the
way from the bottle I pumped into the bottle I drank out of into the cooking
pot and into my eating cup.    And beyond that - but I grew to like the
sharp taste, at least when the water was cold.
 
Of course there had been several long trips over the years when
I did use the iodine and had no symptoms, but they commonly did arise on
the third day, starting around 2008.   
But not on the third day of car camping/day hiking, when
I did not need a water treatment.     Finally this year I remembered a chemist
hiker who had warned me to always follow the iodine treatment after half
an hour with half a vitamin C tablet to bind and neutralize the iodine.
And this year I met a hiker in the Russian wilderness who had used Polarpure
religiously for years and now had thyroid problems.

I got a new water treatment and had several symptom-free trips:    
a Steri-pen with a prefilter.   All looked good, including a
five day trip, but then over a Labor Day trip I had symptoms again - this
time on the fourth day.    But this time Imodium worked in about 24 hours -
this was the first time I had stopped the action while I was still hiking.

My conclusion is that my bowel is sensitive to various kinds of chemical
and physical disruption, and I'm just as well done with the iodine.   But I
still need to carry plenty of extra TP and witch hazel wipes and Imodium
just in case.    I've tried adding metamucil and adding probiotics, and
cutting out Vitamin I, but none of these were consistently effective.

But my years of dreaming about a through hike have been over for some time,
so that's not a problem I have to solve.

http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/resources.html


From lucecruz13 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 11:39:06 2018
From: lucecruz13 at gmail.com (Luce Cruz)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:39:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Couples Thru Hiking
In-Reply-To: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
References: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <CAPdO7Fxs_ztg__XLHAJKp0r=KHm9LHPyD6MMk=DcfM581FnQVA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:46 AM John Papini <jtpapini at icloud.com> wrote:

>
> What else? Should we look into some kind of two way radio?


So many couples, and larger groups, have gone hiking in wilderness without
the need for a radio for instant communications between hikers that I just
don't think anyone really needs one now. Instead, I'd look into a Garmin
InReach which will serve you much better if you have an emergency far away
from communications and others that can go summon help. It will also give
family and friends a tremendous amount of peace of mind. You might have
questions about "what if we get seperated and the other person needs the
InReach?" or "What if the battery goes dead?", but it would be more useful
in an emergency than the radios would be, because the radios only work to
reach out to someone if someone you can reach is listening on the same
channel/frequency and the other settings you might be using at the moment.
The InReach will almost always get a message out in an emergency (i can
only authoritatively say "almost always" because we cannot plan our
emergencies, can we?).

I am a licensed amateur radio operator, and I'm not gonna tell someone not
to being a radio? I personally think a good whistle for each of you in case
you get seperated and/or lost is an essential thing, and no batteries to
worry about.

Just my opinion. Worth less than you paid for it.

-- 
Luce Cruz

From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Sep 10 11:40:01 2018
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 09:40:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Polarpure
Message-ID: <201809101640.w8AGe1Jh016114@server-f.oakapple.net>


By the way, you can't buy Polarpure any more.    For years it was
packaged by a couple of local Sierra Club leaders, and had the great
advantage that it had infinite shelf life under any and all environmental
conditions, and no batteries required.    The only problem was that the
cap liner eventually deteriorated and leaked.

But the DEA noticed that elemental iodine, like practically every other
chemical known to man, can be used to make meth.    So they told the
Polarpure people they had to handle it as a controlled substance with
extensive documentation about how much they bought, from whom, and who
they sold it to, how much and when... it was just too much work for too
little reward, so they gave up.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2011/11/21/federal-agents-say-88-year-old-saratoga-mans-invention-is-being-used-by-meth-labs/




From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 11:41:31 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:41:31 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Polarpure
In-Reply-To: <201809101640.w8AGe1Jh016114@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <201809101640.w8AGe1Jh016114@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <3fda0b28-f8fe-779d-7282-d53d49bd3dd3@gmail.com>

My local outfitter here in Laramie Wyoming used this reason not to carry 
iodine tablets.

Jeff.

On 9/10/2018 10:40 AM, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote:
> By the way, you can't buy Polarpure any more.    For years it was
> packaged by a couple of local Sierra Club leaders, and had the great
> advantage that it had infinite shelf life under any and all environmental
> conditions, and no batteries required.    The only problem was that the
> cap liner eventually deteriorated and leaked.
>
> But the DEA noticed that elemental iodine, like practically every other
> chemical known to man, can be used to make meth.    So they told the
> Polarpure people they had to handle it as a controlled substance with
> extensive documentation about how much they bought, from whom, and who
> they sold it to, how much and when... it was just too much work for too
> little reward, so they gave up.
>
> https://www.mercurynews.com/2011/11/21/federal-agents-say-88-year-old-saratoga-mans-invention-is-being-used-by-meth-labs/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 11:42:08 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:42:08 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] digestive upsets
In-Reply-To: <201809101629.w8AGTGQ5002683@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <201809101629.w8AGTGQ5002683@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <e6a3cf73-9389-d986-bafd-3544604ba7b6@gmail.com>

I've been hiking apart from parents since the late 60s. mostly in the 
Sierra and Washington cascades and Rockies.? I have only treated water 
with iodine if the source was a lake or felt wrong.? I never got 
giardia.? Until this summer when I hiked for a couple weeks in the 
Collegiates in Colorado.? I religiously treated the water because of the 
presence of cattle at almost all creek headwaters in the Rockies,(hiking 
the CDT near Lake City is a good example - every spring has its little 
herd of cattle) except for a spring I thought was ok.? Maybe it was bad 
hygiene, but I choose to think it was the spring.? I took flagyl and it 
was gone in three days.

I remember when the water filter craze hit.? Even then it seemed like 
corporations were creating a market by use of fear - fear of giardia.? 
Now it seems like "common wisdom" and normal to filter water.? 
Apparently some people are "carriers" of giardia and can spread it.? My 
hiking buddies so accused me.? Now I know I'm not after having gotten 
it.? Almost 50 years of backpacking, seldom treating water, my luck ran 
out.

I'm still not going to carry a filter in the mountains of the West, and 
will seldom use iodine.

Jeff...

On 9/10/2018 10:29 AM, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
>
>> Perhaps the funniest experience was both of us getting explosive
>> diarrhea for an evening.   Talk about another level of intimacy.
> A couple of years ago I wrote about my own digestive upsets.    They always
> started on the third day of a trip and ended within a few hours after getting
> back to the car.    I had all kinds of hypotheses.   Obviously it was
> something specifically to do with backpacking, and something specific to me -
> other people eating the same food, drinking the same treated water, getting
> the same exercise - never had any symptoms.    Imodium seemed to have no
> effect until the trip was done, when I didn't need it any more; then too
> much effect.
>
> This year I thought I'd figured it out - I'd been using Polarpure elemental
> iodine solution since 2001 as an aftertreatment after pumping through an
> MSR filter.   It had the advantage of cleaning up everything along the
> way from the bottle I pumped into the bottle I drank out of into the cooking
> pot and into my eating cup.    And beyond that - but I grew to like the
> sharp taste, at least when the water was cold.
>   
> Of course there had been several long trips over the years when
> I did use the iodine and had no symptoms, but they commonly did arise on
> the third day, starting around 2008.
> But not on the third day of car camping/day hiking, when
> I did not need a water treatment.     Finally this year I remembered a chemist
> hiker who had warned me to always follow the iodine treatment after half
> an hour with half a vitamin C tablet to bind and neutralize the iodine.
> And this year I met a hiker in the Russian wilderness who had used Polarpure
> religiously for years and now had thyroid problems.
>
> I got a new water treatment and had several symptom-free trips:
> a Steri-pen with a prefilter.   All looked good, including a
> five day trip, but then over a Labor Day trip I had symptoms again - this
> time on the fourth day.    But this time Imodium worked in about 24 hours -
> this was the first time I had stopped the action while I was still hiking.
>
> My conclusion is that my bowel is sensitive to various kinds of chemical
> and physical disruption, and I'm just as well done with the iodine.   But I
> still need to carry plenty of extra TP and witch hazel wipes and Imodium
> just in case.    I've tried adding metamucil and adding probiotics, and
> cutting out Vitamin I, but none of these were consistently effective.
>
> But my years of dreaming about a through hike have been over for some time,
> so that's not a problem I have to solve.
>
> http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/resources.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 11:56:01 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:56:01 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Kendall Katwalk
Message-ID: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>

The recent sad passing of a hiker introduced this portion of the pct to me - somehow I?d never heard it mentioned. As a section hiker, I will not be contending with it for years. That just gives me longer to build it up in my imagination. I wouldn?t say that a fear of heights paralyzes me, but it definitely has my undivided attention when I?m near a drop off. 

Thoughts/encouragement/advice?

Thanks y?all!

GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 12:34:50 2018
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 10:34:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kendall Katwalk
In-Reply-To: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
References: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0272B6A0-5785-436A-9DDD-AAA6C67EE313@gmail.com>

GoGo, my two cents is not to worry about it.  The chief cause of death in the North Cascades is drowning.  I?m also a section hiker, and of the 1700 miles I?ve hiked so far, that part of the trail doesn?t even stick in my memory as very difficult.  This is a tragic accident, and those can happen to any of us.  My approach is to be as safe as I can, all the time, and to stop if something doesn?t feel right. 

I use hiking poles and they can be a huge help if you stumble.  Many, many, many places on the PCT have very steep drop-offs in WA and in CA ? not so much in OR though when I hiked the section up to Timberline from the Columbia, there was a landslide up on Mt. Hood, which was very dicy to cross, and slipping would have had dire consequences.  We all need to decide when to go ahead and when to just turn around and bail.  Remember that saying ? ?There are old backpackers, and there are bold backpackers, but there are no old, bold backpackers.?

Happy trails & hike safely,
Sunshine from Spokane

> On Sep 10, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The recent sad passing of a hiker introduced this portion of the pct to me - somehow I?d never heard it mentioned. As a section hiker, I will not be contending with it for years. That just gives me longer to build it up in my imagination. I wouldn?t say that a fear of heights paralyzes me, but it definitely has my undivided attention when I?m near a drop off. 
> 
> Thoughts/encouragement/advice?
> 
> Thanks y?all!
> 
> GoGo 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 12:34:49 2018
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:34:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Couples / Radio
References: <2119809075.2986871.1536600889520.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2119809075.2986871.1536600889520@mail.yahoo.com>

A pair of FRS type radios would be one tool to deal with short range (few miles) communication while physically separated.? 

Another would be a firm protocol for hiking separate such that each person always knows their relative position to the other (in front of or behind) and what to do, and what each other will do, at various decision points.
Examples would be:? 

Person in front always stops at trail junctions until person behind catches up. 

Person in front always stops at un-bridged creek crossings until person behind catches up.

Person in front stops every XX hours and waits for person behind to catch up.

If person in front needs to step off the trail for a while for a cat hole break, they leave something obvious at the point in the trail where they departed - a trekking pole stuck in the ground with their hat, for example.? Person behind, if they get to that point, stops and waits until first person returns from off trail break.
If person in front gets to pre-agreed lunch spot or end of day camp site, they leave a known mark on the trail (LNT compliant such as scratch in dirt, small rock cairn, sticks as arrow, etc) for the person behind, etc.
When person in front hits a point where they are to wait for person behind, they are to wait for XX amount of time prior to back tracking to find person in back (in the event they are injured).
Each person must be capable of navigating & paying attention to the trail adequately so as to not get lost - it doesn't do any good for the above protocol if one or the other wanders off or misses the signals (item left for a step off, lunch spot or end of day mark, etc).

Of course, if the plan is to never physically separate, to always hike "nose to tail", then a radio or protocol is moot.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 12:51:07 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:51:07 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Kendall Katwalk
In-Reply-To: <0272B6A0-5785-436A-9DDD-AAA6C67EE313@gmail.com>
References: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
 <0272B6A0-5785-436A-9DDD-AAA6C67EE313@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <74A40105-73EE-4D01-A2CC-713792252B63@gmail.com>

Sunshine, that quote is hilarious! Thanks for your input!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 10, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> GoGo, my two cents is not to worry about it.  The chief cause of death in the North Cascades is drowning.  I?m also a section hiker, and of the 1700 miles I?ve hiked so far, that part of the trail doesn?t even stick in my memory as very difficult.  This is a tragic accident, and those can happen to any of us.  My approach is to be as safe as I can, all the time, and to stop if something doesn?t feel right. 
> 
> I use hiking poles and they can be a huge help if you stumble.  Many, many, many places on the PCT have very steep drop-offs in WA and in CA ? not so much in OR though when I hiked the section up to Timberline from the Columbia, there was a landslide up on Mt. Hood, which was very dicy to cross, and slipping would have had dire consequences.  We all need to decide when to go ahead and when to just turn around and bail.  Remember that saying ? ?There are old backpackers, and there are bold backpackers, but there are no old, bold backpackers.?
> 
> Happy trails & hike safely,
> Sunshine from Spokane
> 
>> On Sep 10, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The recent sad passing of a hiker introduced this portion of the pct to me - somehow I?d never heard it mentioned. As a section hiker, I will not be contending with it for years. That just gives me longer to build it up in my imagination. I wouldn?t say that a fear of heights paralyzes me, but it definitely has my undivided attention when I?m near a drop off. 
>> 
>> Thoughts/encouragement/advice?
>> 
>> Thanks y?all!
>> 
>> GoGo 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From gary at hbfun.org  Mon Sep 10 13:05:55 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 11:05:55 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Couples Thru Hiking
In-Reply-To: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
References: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <ae11f70cb3f94d3286f6ca8221ba0d39.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

On Mon, September 10, 2018 2:45 am, John Papini wrote:

> 2. Otherwise our gear will be separate. We will each carry our own water
> filters, food, stoves, etc.

Share more gear. One filter, one stove, common commissary. Sure makes the
packs lighter.

Gary

From jbruins at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 14:19:32 2018
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 12:19:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Couples Thru Hiking
In-Reply-To: <CAPdO7Fxs_ztg__XLHAJKp0r=KHm9LHPyD6MMk=DcfM581FnQVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
 <CAPdO7Fxs_ztg__XLHAJKp0r=KHm9LHPyD6MMk=DcfM581FnQVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7266BD09-1B21-4CD3-B2AA-6C9D755AFAF3@gmail.com>

I believe the intent was to communicate within the couple, not outside. Two InReach devices would be expensive. A radio with defined check-in times would fit the bill. Unfortunately, radios don?t usually charge at the 5V of a USB device, so you?d be carrying the extra weight of a dedicated charger just to keep them charged.

It?s really hard to lose the trail. If you follow the stopping and waiting tactics already discussed, radios shouldn?t be necessary at all.

That said, I?d be strategic about splitting gear. IMO, two Sawyer Minis is better than one shared Squeeze: you?re more independent and carrying a system with redundancy baked in. Planning for the worst case navigation scenario, whoever is carrying the quilt should carry the ground cloth (can be pitched as a tarp if necessary) and whoever is carrying the tarp should carry extra insulation (in case they spend the night out without the quilt). On days you might have to stop early due to an emergency (eg it?s raining and you have a gear failure), don?t split up at all.

The challenge will be day in and day out with the faster person stopping at all the right places. 5, 5-minute breaks in two hours is really challenging: you never hit your groove or get a good rest. The temptation to push through a few junctions or crossings to consolidate into a larger break in a better location will be high. Know your partner and what they?re capable of (both physically and emotionally) and talk it out. Some gear redundancy prevents catastrophe as well as making separation for longer periods mentally okay for the trailing person.

Cheers,
Armstrong

PS If you leave notes (please don?t), date them! An un-dated note is trash and should be removed.
PPS Don?t build cairns. If you really want to move rocks, join a trail maintenance crew.

>> On Sep 10, 2018, at 9:39 AM, Luce Cruz <lucecruz13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 2:46 AM John Papini <jtpapini at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> What else? Should we look into some kind of two way radio?
> 
> 
> So many couples, and larger groups, have gone hiking in wilderness without
> the need for a radio for instant communications between hikers that I just
> don't think anyone really needs one now. Instead, I'd look into a Garmin
> InReach which will serve you much better if you have an emergency far away
> from communications and others that can go summon help. It will also give
> family and friends a tremendous amount of peace of mind. You might have
> questions about "what if we get seperated and the other person needs the
> InReach?" or "What if the battery goes dead?", but it would be more useful
> in an emergency than the radios would be, because the radios only work to
> reach out to someone if someone you can reach is listening on the same
> channel/frequency and the other settings you might be using at the moment.
> The InReach will almost always get a message out in an emergency (i can
> only authoritatively say "almost always" because we cannot plan our
> emergencies, can we?).
> 
> I am a licensed amateur radio operator, and I'm not gonna tell someone not
> to being a radio? I personally think a good whistle for each of you in case
> you get seperated and/or lost is an essential thing, and no batteries to
> worry about.
> 
> Just my opinion. Worth less than you paid for it.
> 
> -- 
> Luce Cruz
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From backpack45 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 10 14:51:21 2018
From: backpack45 at yahoo.com (Susan Alcorn)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 19:51:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Subject:  Kendall Katwalk
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1536598800.24290.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1536598800.24290.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <754214178.2558322.1536609081790@mail.yahoo.com>

Early reports were wrong, the hiker was not on the PCT. The Kendall Katwalk is in the vicinity, but several miles away. Here's a link:?64-year-old hiker near Kendall Katwalk Trail falls several hundred feet to her death. Ralph and I section-hiked the entire PCT and there were some places that I found a bit nerve-racking, but they weren't anything like how the Katwalk is described.?

| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
64-year-old hiker near Kendall Katwalk Trail falls several hundred feet ...

NORTH BEND, Wash. -- A 64-year-old hiker fell several hundred feet down a rocky cliff to her death in King Count...
 |

 |

 |


Happy trails,Susan AlcornJust released!?Healing Miles: Gifts from the Caminos Norte and Primitivowww.backpack45.com?



 


From lucecruz13 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 10 22:10:22 2018
From: lucecruz13 at gmail.com (Luce Cruz)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 20:10:22 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Couples Thru Hiking
In-Reply-To: <7266BD09-1B21-4CD3-B2AA-6C9D755AFAF3@gmail.com>
References: <161C9593-AF47-4850-B6D9-6F05AAC32927@icloud.com>
 <CAPdO7Fxs_ztg__XLHAJKp0r=KHm9LHPyD6MMk=DcfM581FnQVA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7266BD09-1B21-4CD3-B2AA-6C9D755AFAF3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPdO7Fwetmdd5TPn0RyxUe8YgKbUm6jphRzAEdMVUn0uAxXjdA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 12:19 PM Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe the intent was to communicate within the couple, not outside.
> Two InReach devices would be expensive.


Maybe I wasn't clear enough for everyone, I wasn't suggesting two InReach
devices. I spoke in singular about the device.

Whistles don't need batteries to communicate over sometimes fairly large
distances.

I love radio, it's my hobby, but I don't think it is necessary with a good
plan in place in case someone wants to hike faster than the other(s).

Make a Good Plan, and stick to it, a wise person once told me, because all
the extra stuff can complicate a Good Plan.

-- 
Luce Cruz

From laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 08:12:55 2018
From: laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com (Laurie Hallum)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 13:12:55 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Kendall Katwalk
In-Reply-To: <0272B6A0-5785-436A-9DDD-AAA6C67EE313@gmail.com>
References: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
 <0272B6A0-5785-436A-9DDD-AAA6C67EE313@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1054854277.3499340.1536671575441@mail.yahoo.com>

 Sunshine, ?I like your quote. ?It seems to be very true.Lady Pegasus?
    On Monday, September 10, 2018, 10:35:21 AM PDT, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 GoGo, my two cents is not to worry about it.? The chief cause of death in the North Cascades is drowning.? I?m also a section hiker, and of the 1700 miles I?ve hiked so far, that part of the trail doesn?t even stick in my memory as very difficult.? This is a tragic accident, and those can happen to any of us.? My approach is to be as safe as I can, all the time, and to stop if something doesn?t feel right. 

I use hiking poles and they can be a huge help if you stumble.? Many, many, many places on the PCT have very steep drop-offs in WA and in CA ? not so much in OR though when I hiked the section up to Timberline from the Columbia, there was a landslide up on Mt. Hood, which was very dicy to cross, and slipping would have had dire consequences.? We all need to decide when to go ahead and when to just turn around and bail.? Remember that saying ? ?There are old backpackers, and there are bold backpackers, but there are no old, bold backpackers.?

Happy trails & hike safely,
Sunshine from Spokane

> On Sep 10, 2018, at 9:56 AM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The recent sad passing of a hiker introduced this portion of the pct to me - somehow I?d never heard it mentioned. As a section hiker, I will not be contending with it for years. That just gives me longer to build it up in my imagination. I wouldn?t say that a fear of heights paralyzes me, but it definitely has my undivided attention when I?m near a drop off. 
> 
> Thoughts/encouragement/advice?
> 
> Thanks y?all!
> 
> GoGo 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

_______________________________________________
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List Archives:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.  

From albertwerner at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 19:06:13 2018
From: albertwerner at gmail.com (Al Werner)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 17:06:13 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kendall Katwalk
In-Reply-To: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
References: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGfDP5-iBSkcKzWKDEZL6fWfL4fe1SST3E_Fci0q7VvTRuMFPA@mail.gmail.com>

I'd concur, don't give it too much thought. For some perspective, I don't
do well with heights, almost locked up once in Arches NP a number of years
ago. I've sectioned Washington over the years and never had a problem.

I've been across Kendall Katwalk five times, only once in the fog so thick
I couldn't even determine where it was, with no issues.

The Katwalk is plenty wide, pretty flat, and not too long. Stick to the
uphill side for assurance, either way you should be fine.

The Knife Edge of The Goat Rocks is also no big deal, though it'd be a bit
unsettling in a strong wind.

Hope that helps a bit. Section J is spectacular, I seem to do it about
every four years.




>

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Thu Sep 13 20:41:25 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:41:25 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Kendall Katwalk
In-Reply-To: <CAGfDP5-iBSkcKzWKDEZL6fWfL4fe1SST3E_Fci0q7VvTRuMFPA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7A928138-8A03-4550-84CA-A5BA48A13681@gmail.com>
 <CAGfDP5-iBSkcKzWKDEZL6fWfL4fe1SST3E_Fci0q7VvTRuMFPA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC124A06-5DED-4BCF-8BA6-1BE0AFB83A46@gmail.com>

Thank you so much all! That puts my mind at ease!
Gogo :)
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 13, 2018, at 7:06 PM, Al Werner <albertwerner at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'd concur, don't give it too much thought. For some perspective, I don't do well with heights, almost locked up once in Arches NP a number of years ago. I've sectioned Washington over the years and never had a problem. 
> 
> I've been across Kendall Katwalk five times, only once in the fog so thick I couldn't even determine where it was, with no issues. 
> 
> The Katwalk is plenty wide, pretty flat, and not too long. Stick to the uphill side for assurance, either way you should be fine.
> 
> The Knife Edge of The Goat Rocks is also no big deal, though it'd be a bit unsettling in a strong wind.
> 
> Hope that helps a bit. Section J is spectacular, I seem to do it about every four years.
> 
> 
> 
>> 

From pctl at oakapple.net  Thu Sep 27 13:55:24 2018
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 11:55:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] crossing the Middle Fork Feather River Canyon
Message-ID: <201809271855.w8RItOU5007864@server-f.oakapple.net>



Going over a 12000' pass every day for a week sticks in your mind.
Other parts of the PCT, not so much.

When I started rehiking from Quincy-LaPorte Road to Bucks Summit,
I kept thinking that none of it looked familiar or memorable, except
the big bridge and a strange pioneer monument made of rails near
Bucks Summit, but no memory of any campsites or water sources - the
usual things one remembers.
Did I really do it before or have I been claiming to have hiked the
whole PCT in bits and pieces 2001-2013 in error?

When I got home, I looked for my previous effort and there it was:

 http://pcnst.oakapple.net/photo/cc-pct/m/2001-10-21-m07

I hiked it with Boris Nahlovsky, with shuttle service provided by
his wife Camille.
I wonder why I wouldn't at least have remembered Lookout Rock.
I had misremembered the strange pioneer monument made of rails,
thinking it must have been about the railroad down on the North Fork.

 http://pcnst.oakapple.net/photo/cc-pct/m/2001-10-20-m09

The monument has a new sign.

The trail was mostly in excellent shape, no tree problems or major
brush, but a few slipping-out sections in the canyon that required
only moderate care.     There was one piece of trail just south
of the big bridge over a loose sand slope that seemed to be on the
verge of undermining the rock work.

==

I didn't check the off-trail water sources.  On trail:

23 Sep:
The "delicious spring" at the junction with the Butte Bar Trail,
mentioned by Schaffer but not Halfmile,
was running well through a plastic pipe - about a gallon a minute.

Bear Creek and its tributaries nearby just east and west were all
running strongly.

24 Sep:
The upper Bear Creek tributary at 5297' was barely a trickle
and not worth the bother.

Lookout Spring was running well through an iron trough -
about a gallon a minute.

One of the springs just before Big Creek Road, not mentioned by
Halfmile, was still trickling and could be scooped.

25 Sep:
Seasonal sources at 5639' and 5574' were trickling but not worth
bothering, because

Big Creek at 5528' was running well.    It didn't look seasonal at all.

==

There were several hikers planning to finish up roughly 500-mile
segments.

I met a southbound through hiker who'd started late in Washington
and  was planning to stop for the year
at Echo Lake.    A southbound through hike is much harder than northbound;
one has to start in the North Cascades old snow and get through the High Sierra
before its new snow.    It was hard for Eric Ryback, and almost 50 years
later, much of the infrastructure that has developed for north-bounders
is of less usefulness to southbounders.

I once thought I'd do a southbound through hike,
but through hikes are no longer a possible future for me, so I'm glad 
other people are still trying.


Driving home, I was really impressed by how remote LaPorte is.   Makes
Quincy look like a metropolis. 

From pctl at oakapple.net  Thu Sep 27 19:10:35 2018
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2018 17:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] crossing the Middle Fork Feather River Canyon
Message-ID: <201809280010.w8S0AZlN001802@server-f.oakapple.net>

correction on Lookout Spring

> Lookout Spring was running well through an iron trough -
> about a gallon a minute.

should be

> Lookout Spring was running well through an iron trough -
> about a liter a minute.

From sconover94 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 30 14:23:12 2018
From: sconover94 at gmail.com (Scott Conover)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2018 12:23:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Sleeping bag for sale
Message-ID: <CADSYBxRv3Qq-CcpmagB8RtmNGd0=ciLbsH3bwWNk4_=RH3ocqQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a very slightly used Feathered Friends Swallow, 20 degree, Pertex UL
shell, size long, sleeping bag.  It is in excellent condition having been
only used for three nights (with sleeping clothes).  It weighs 30 oz. and
is a left zip.  I'm selling it because it's too long for me, as I belatedly
realized.  I paid over $500 for it, and will let it go for $350.
    Contact Scott Conover @ 503-734-9735  (PCT 1994)