From ned at mountaineducation.org  Sat Mar  3 14:01:37 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 12:01:37 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] 1-day Snow Advanced Clinic?
Message-ID: <1d1901d3b32a$706fa680$514ef380$@mountaineducation.org>

2018 PCT, JMT, CDT Thru Hikers:

 

The proposed, remotely taught, 1-day Snow Advanced Clinic to teach you the
skills and awareness you'll need to safely get through the Sierra snow and
creeks

 

*	will not be happening if you don't apply for it.
*	You have 6 days left to apply.

 

Mountain Education is going through considerable expense and logistical
complication to try to bring this to you on the PCT (just south of the JMT)
where it is now looking likely, due to the recent weather pattern change,
you will run into snow in May.

 

IF we receive enough applications (and subsequent registrations),

. The class will be present at Chicken Spring Lake, mile 750, and available
to attend only by those who have registered for it in advance (USFS
requirement).

. You cannot register and pay for it there (USFS requirement).

. Its first day cannot be until the trailhead opens in Horseshoe Meadows,
late April to mid-May.

. It will be offered daily for two weeks, then a weekend off (USFS
requirement), then back on for two weeks, then off, and so on until we have
taught 200 hikers max (USFS requirement). The course schedule will be
emailed to each registered student.

 

IF we do not receive enough student applications,

. The class will not be offered and will not be there for you to attend.

 

2018 PCT, JMT, CDT Thru Hikers:

 

. You have 6 days remaining to apply!

. We have one week to submit our course confirmation to the USFS by March
9th.

. Course Applications can be found here
<https://www.facebook.com/mountaineducation/>
https://www.facebook.com/mountaineducation/ . The class is called: SAC/CSL.
The course date is when you expect to get there (JMT/CDT as well). Include
your PCT start date, if applicable.

. If you want to be calmer, confident, and more savvy over snow and through
creeks, apply now or it won't be available to you!

 

Be Careful out there and have incredible journeys this thru hiking season!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Mar  3 17:12:33 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 15:12:33 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Be careful out there - Feral cattle terrorize hikers
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkrqgpE5ykNuRZuJc_ziuMhtUnG9U4XYNd7ba4cxMCh3Q@mail.gmail.com>

<begin snippet>
Sand to Snow National Monument is a quiet place ? its mountainous high
desert and cascading streams a draw for those seeking panoramic views,
tranquility and solitude.

But on a recent morning, the serenity was ruined by a menacing
bellowing, making it clear passing hikers weren?t alone.

On a ridgeline near a popular stretch of the Pacific Crest Trail, five
feral bulls, each the size of a small car, were snorting, stomping and
pawing the ground ? postures indicating they were ready to charge.

More....
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/nation-world/ct-feral-cattle-california-national-monument-20180302-story.html

From dylanpatrickclark at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 14:55:41 2018
From: dylanpatrickclark at gmail.com (dylan patrick clark)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2018 20:55:41 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Advice for Sierra section hike start date
Message-ID: <CALSSMYQd6Cu3hEwdJsP=JpRmFZPSJH6eLwVi4wapBGsBGhH0Qg@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

My travel plans have changed and I?m thinking of hiking a nobo section
between KM South or Lone Pine and Mammoth this Summer. Are there any
clairvoyant hikers out there who can give advice about start date given the
recent weather? (early June?)

My partner and would like to see some snow (and fewer mosquitoes). We?ve
done our share of river crossings, but neither of us are super experienced
with winter camping (I hiked in 2016 but entered the Sierra well into June).

Thanks!
Dylan

From timpnye at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 20:18:39 2018
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2018 18:18:39 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Advice for Sierra section hike start date
In-Reply-To: <CALSSMYQd6Cu3hEwdJsP=JpRmFZPSJH6eLwVi4wapBGsBGhH0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5a9b57a8.c149620a.28557.72eb@mx.google.com>

It is far too premature to venture an informed judgement as to the state of the weather, and snow, going forward. By way of example, 2011 had a storm a week during April and May leaving treacherous crossings. Evolution and Bear in such circumstances must be respected and are are difficult too imagine, much less for which to prepare. Early morning crossings should also be abetted by determing the aspect of the relevant watershed in the area to the sun at any given time of day. Snow bridges could be the subject of an entire thread, but the two crossings above are extremely unlikely to have one given their volume and width. The waterfalls involved in? crossings are another consideration.
-------- Original message --------From: dylan patrick clark <dylanpatrickclark at gmail.com> Date: 3/3/18  12:55 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: PCT MailingList <Pct-L at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] Advice for Sierra section hike start date 
Howdy,

My travel plans have changed and I?m thinking of hiking a nobo section
between KM South or Lone Pine and Mammoth this Summer. Are there any
clairvoyant hikers out there who can give advice about start date given the
recent weather? (early June?)

My partner and would like to see some snow (and fewer mosquitoes). We?ve
done our share of river crossings, but neither of us are super experienced
with winter camping (I hiked in 2016 but entered the Sierra well into June).

Thanks!
Dylan
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Sat Mar  3 20:37:23 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2018 18:37:23 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Advice for Sierra section hike start date
In-Reply-To: <CALSSMYQd6Cu3hEwdJsP=JpRmFZPSJH6eLwVi4wapBGsBGhH0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALSSMYQd6Cu3hEwdJsP=JpRmFZPSJH6eLwVi4wapBGsBGhH0Qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1ec401d3b361$ba535760$2efa0620$@mountaineducation.org>

Hey, Dylan!

Welcome back! I often use a picture of you jumping a little feeder creek on the way up to Forester that I took back in June, 2016.

Just bring some good, insulated sleeping mats, and you'll be fine! If you're especially concerned, we teach those Snow Basics courses, too, which you could take to get ready, but the last one is April 7-9.

None of us foresaw this recent change in the weather pattern! We all thought the winter would never arrive! How long it lasts is unknown. It could continue into June.


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of dylan patrick clark
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2018 12:56 PM
To: PCT MailingList <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Advice for Sierra section hike start date

Howdy,

My travel plans have changed and I?m thinking of hiking a nobo section between KM South or Lone Pine and Mammoth this Summer. Are there any clairvoyant hikers out there who can give advice about start date given the recent weather? (early June?)

My partner and would like to see some snow (and fewer mosquitoes). We?ve done our share of river crossings, but neither of us are super experienced with winter camping (I hiked in 2016 but entered the Sierra well into June).

Thanks!
Dylan
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 12:18:06 2018
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 10:18:06 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Google earth
Message-ID: <F4BFA027-B0DE-4056-82AF-3146EDAB60C4@gmail.com>


How Can the PCT be uploaded Into a I phone showing the trail route in google earth?
I've tried to figure this out to no avail.??
Thanks, 900miles hiked so far.
Sent from my iPhone

From dylanpatrickclark at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 12:40:58 2018
From: dylanpatrickclark at gmail.com (dylan patrick clark)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 18:40:58 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Google earth
In-Reply-To: <F4BFA027-B0DE-4056-82AF-3146EDAB60C4@gmail.com>
References: <F4BFA027-B0DE-4056-82AF-3146EDAB60C4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALSSMYTJZtBxPSBurQxW49YdkqQSua9LCF_fWRTzHiDK4H96sA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Joe,

I?m not sure, but I think if you have gpx data (eg from half mile,
https://www.pctmap.net/gps/) I bet you can do something like this (
https://www.google.com/earth/outreach/learn/importing-global-positioning-systems-gps-data-in-google-earth/)
to
upload it.

Let me know if that works.

Dylan

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:18 AM Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> How Can the PCT be uploaded Into a I phone showing the trail route in
> google earth?
> I've tried to figure this out to no avail.??
> Thanks, 900miles hiked so far.
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From David_Harris at hmc.edu  Sun Mar  4 22:42:37 2018
From: David_Harris at hmc.edu (David Money Harris)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 20:42:37 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] eTrails 2017: Free PCT Guidebook App for iOS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1520218906.14453.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.3.1520218906.14453.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <51A71556-600F-41CE-B16E-C24D476FEEDE@hmc.edu>

Folks,

I?m happy to announce eTrails 1.7.1 is now available for free at the App Store.

eTrails is a free guidebook app that now covers the entire PCT.  It shows your position and the trail overlaid on high quality USGS maps.  It has thousands of points of interest along the trail, including the usual water sources, campsites, and trailheads, and also lots of information about the natural and human history along the trail that other guidebooks lack.  The app is available on iOS only.

I finished Washington in 2017 and am happy to say the app now covers the whole trail.  It?s been my way to give back to the community that gave me so much while hiking.

I am also a guidebook writer with Wilderness Press and eTrails also covers my books in Orange County and the Inland Empire.

I?m not on Facebook or redit, so I?d appreciate if anyone would forward this message to interested parties, and to leave positive reviews if you find eTrails helpful.

Happy hiking,

David Harris



From nobohiker at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 23:40:21 2018
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (Nobohiker)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 21:40:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Google earth
In-Reply-To: <CALSSMYTJZtBxPSBurQxW49YdkqQSua9LCF_fWRTzHiDK4H96sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <F4BFA027-B0DE-4056-82AF-3146EDAB60C4@gmail.com>
 <CALSSMYTJZtBxPSBurQxW49YdkqQSua9LCF_fWRTzHiDK4H96sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12A444AF-0014-4A45-A8C3-A3ADAFCBDBB1@gmail.com>

 https://www.pctmap.net/google/ -> select ?Halfmile PCT 2018 data in GE kmz Format? -> Open in Google Earth 

Note that this isn?t really an option for the trail since the data can?t be cached.

Happy trails,
Rick

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 10:40, dylan patrick clark <dylanpatrickclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Joe,
> 
> I?m not sure, but I think if you have gpx data (eg from half mile,
> https://www.pctmap.net/gps/) I bet you can do something like this (
> https://www.google.com/earth/outreach/learn/importing-global-positioning-systems-gps-data-in-google-earth/)
> to
> upload it.
> 
> Let me know if that works.
> 
> Dylan
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:18 AM Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> How Can the PCT be uploaded Into a I phone showing the trail route in
>> google earth?
>> I've tried to figure this out to no avail.??
>> Thanks, 900miles hiked so far.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 10:20:20 2018
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 08:20:20 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] eTrails 2017: Free PCT Guidebook App for iOS
In-Reply-To: <51A71556-600F-41CE-B16E-C24D476FEEDE@hmc.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1520218906.14453.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <51A71556-600F-41CE-B16E-C24D476FEEDE@hmc.edu>
Message-ID: <0F140E03-6208-4C9B-B060-7C1AE6BF6DFC@gmail.com>

Dear David & PCT folks,

eTrails is powerful, wonderful and extremely helpful ? plus for those of us who used the Wilderness Press guidebooks for decades, eTrails has, in a separate place, the historical, geological, botanical and downright quirky insights on the land we all walk thru.  I cannot recommend it highly enough!

Thanks for this updated version, and all you have done to make our hikes safer, more fun and in the process, helped us learn new things.

Happy trails,
Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 8:42 PM, David Money Harris <David_Harris at hmc.edu> wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I?m happy to announce eTrails 1.7.1 is now available for free at the App Store.
> 
> eTrails is a free guidebook app that now covers the entire PCT.  It shows your position and the trail overlaid on high quality USGS maps.  It has thousands of points of interest along the trail, including the usual water sources, campsites, and trailheads, and also lots of information about the natural and human history along the trail that other guidebooks lack.  The app is available on iOS only.
> 
> I finished Washington in 2017 and am happy to say the app now covers the whole trail.  It?s been my way to give back to the community that gave me so much while hiking.
> 
> I am also a guidebook writer with Wilderness Press and eTrails also covers my books in Orange County and the Inland Empire.
> 
> I?m not on Facebook or redit, so I?d appreciate if anyone would forward this message to interested parties, and to leave positive reviews if you find eTrails helpful.
> 
> Happy hiking,
> 
> David Harris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon Mar  5 10:35:16 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 16:35:16 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Be careful out there - Feral cattle terrorize hikers
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzkrqgpE5ykNuRZuJc_ziuMhtUnG9U4XYNd7ba4cxMCh3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkrqgpE5ykNuRZuJc_ziuMhtUnG9U4XYNd7ba4cxMCh3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8dee7e03b3c245c8a62400a2d580aa3a@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

Until they get it resolved, its probably a good idea to steer clear of the area...

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Brick Robbins
Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2018 3:13 PM
To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Be careful out there - Feral cattle terrorize hikers

<begin snippet>
Sand to Snow National Monument is a quiet place ? its mountainous high
desert and cascading streams a draw for those seeking panoramic views,
tranquility and solitude.

But on a recent morning, the serenity was ruined by a menacing
bellowing, making it clear passing hikers weren?t alone.

On a ridgeline near a popular stretch of the Pacific Crest Trail, five
feral bulls, each the size of a small car, were snorting, stomping and
pawing the ground ? postures indicating they were ready to charge.

More....
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sandiegouniontribune.com_news_nation-2Dworld_ct-2Dferal-2Dcattle-2Dcalifornia-2Dnational-2Dmonument-2D20180302-2Dstory.html&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=ouoU-5bWB1hGSQsVF7qHade7G0U6SKCUqXI8nbm_amI&m=UmsW34ZXwjLRmk__Bz94i0UnoHDKYQGPxGkXKn8Ph8E&s=1IKk64UfcSd-APqk2ugkS-lIz5ok-nFKsmHb6Md_1sw&e=
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 11:42:13 2018
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:42:13 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] eTrails 2017: Free PCT Guidebook App for iOS
In-Reply-To: <0F140E03-6208-4C9B-B060-7C1AE6BF6DFC@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1520218906.14453.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <51A71556-600F-41CE-B16E-C24D476FEEDE@hmc.edu>
 <0F140E03-6208-4C9B-B060-7C1AE6BF6DFC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_atbtLXnPz67WWsUGRUGsAW3+QReCi9tZRSuOYDeR1bzMw@mail.gmail.com>

I second this. Gutthook and Halfmile apps are great for navigating but
eTrails provides something different. Like Susan, I really enjoyed reading
about the geology, plants and history. In some senses it is different than
any other guidebook. With the GPS and PCT mileage, David can point to
specific trees or landmarks. With normal guidebooks you can get a sense of
the botany but eTrails can let you know exactly where on the trail that
unique conifer is or something else of interest.  Now that it covers the
rest of the PCT it is even better.

Thanks, Rover

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear David & PCT folks,
>
> eTrails is powerful, wonderful and extremely helpful ? plus for those of
> us who used the Wilderness Press guidebooks for decades, eTrails has, in a
> separate place, the historical, geological, botanical and downright quirky
> insights on the land we all walk thru.  I cannot recommend it highly enough!
>
> Thanks for this updated version, and all you have done to make our hikes
> safer, more fun and in the process, helped us learn new things.
>
> Happy trails,
> Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine
>
> > On Mar 4, 2018, at 8:42 PM, David Money Harris <David_Harris at hmc.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I?m happy to announce eTrails 1.7.1 is now available for free at the App
> Store.
> >
> > eTrails is a free guidebook app that now covers the entire PCT.  It
> shows your position and the trail overlaid on high quality USGS maps.  It
> has thousands of points of interest along the trail, including the usual
> water sources, campsites, and trailheads, and also lots of information
> about the natural and human history along the trail that other guidebooks
> lack.  The app is available on iOS only.
> >
> > I finished Washington in 2017 and am happy to say the app now covers the
> whole trail.  It?s been my way to give back to the community that gave me
> so much while hiking.
> >
> > I am also a guidebook writer with Wilderness Press and eTrails also
> covers my books in Orange County and the Inland Empire.
> >
> > I?m not on Facebook or redit, so I?d appreciate if anyone would forward
> this message to interested parties, and to leave positive reviews if you
> find eTrails helpful.
> >
> > Happy hiking,
> >
> > David Harris
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From gary_schenk at verizon.net  Mon Mar  5 11:58:59 2018
From: gary_schenk at verizon.net (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 12:58:59 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Cajon to Swathout Canyon
Message-ID: <161f7510907-179b-18bd1@webjas-vac204.srv.aolmail.net>

Sunday we took a short jaunt from Cajon Pass to Swarthout Canyon. There's a homeless encampment now at the south end of the tunnel under I-15. The trail is again well marked in the area just north of the 15. The area is starting to recover nicely from the fire. The trail crews have been busy. There's a new bridge over a small gully. They built a nice little bench at a particularly good overlook. More on that later. The tread is in good shape, a couple of washouts were repaired.  Considering the recent fire there was not a lot of poodlebrush encroaching the trail. Despite the recent rains, there's no water until Swarthout Canyon. It's stocked with about 10 gallons.It was a beautiful day and hiking around the Mormon Rocks is quite pretty. On the way back to Cajon Pass, after crossing a jeep road we saw new mountain bike tracks. They hadn't been there on the way out. The tracks went to the little overlook bench. The bench had been dismantled so the bikers could have some fun. It kind of ruined my day.

Gary

From a.yumeko.h at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 12:06:44 2018
From: a.yumeko.h at gmail.com (Anastasia Hill)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 10:06:44 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Cajon to Swathout Canyon
In-Reply-To: <161f7510907-179b-18bd1@webjas-vac204.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <161f7510907-179b-18bd1@webjas-vac204.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <EFD5EE05-F3BB-4088-9D4D-7BB4A9AF90CF@gmail.com>

I?ve tried unsubscribing from this list 10 times! Please remove me, it?s been 7 years since I did the PCT

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 5, 2018, at 9:58 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Sunday we took a short jaunt from Cajon Pass to Swarthout Canyon. There's a homeless encampment now at the south end of the tunnel under I-15. The trail is again well marked in the area just north of the 15. The area is starting to recover nicely from the fire. The trail crews have been busy. There's a new bridge over a small gully. They built a nice little bench at a particularly good overlook. More on that later. The tread is in good shape, a couple of washouts were repaired.  Considering the recent fire there was not a lot of poodlebrush encroaching the trail. Despite the recent rains, there's no water until Swarthout Canyon. It's stocked with about 10 gallons.It was a beautiful day and hiking around the Mormon Rocks is quite pretty. On the way back to Cajon Pass, after crossing a jeep road we saw new mountain bike tracks. They hadn't been there on the way out. The tracks went to the little overlook bench. The bench had been dismantled so the bikers could have some fun. It kind of
>  ruined my day.
> 
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 13:50:31 2018
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 11:50:31 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] eTrails 2017: Free PCT Guidebook App for iOS
In-Reply-To: <51A71556-600F-41CE-B16E-C24D476FEEDE@hmc.edu>
References: <mailman.3.1520218906.14453.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <51A71556-600F-41CE-B16E-C24D476FEEDE@hmc.edu>
Message-ID: <F0E53568-247A-403E-B9C1-01912E30147D@gmail.com>

Thanks, downloaded it for the pct. After developing an understanding of how to find things within the app, I especially like that I can use it off line.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 4, 2018, at 8:42 PM, David Money Harris <David_Harris at hmc.edu> wrote:

Folks,

I?m happy to announce eTrails 1.7.1 is now available for free at the App Store.

eTrails is a free guidebook app that now covers the entire PCT.  It shows your position and the trail overlaid on high quality USGS maps.  It has thousands of points of interest along the trail, including the usual water sources, campsites, and trailheads, and also lots of information about the natural and human history along the trail that other guidebooks lack.  The app is available on iOS only.

I finished Washington in 2017 and am happy to say the app now covers the whole trail.  It?s been my way to give back to the community that gave me so much while hiking.

I am also a guidebook writer with Wilderness Press and eTrails also covers my books in Orange County and the Inland Empire.

I?m not on Facebook or redit, so I?d appreciate if anyone would forward this message to interested parties, and to leave positive reviews if you find eTrails helpful.

Happy hiking,

David Harris


_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Mon Mar  5 12:22:33 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 13:22:33 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] eTrails 2017: Free PCT Guidebook App for iOS
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_atbtLXnPz67WWsUGRUGsAW3+QReCi9tZRSuOYDeR1bzMw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAH8m_atbtLXnPz67WWsUGRUGsAW3+QReCi9tZRSuOYDeR1bzMw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <161f76698e2-17a1-39369@webjas-vae046.srv.aolmail.net>

Where do you get etrails at?

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Monday, March 5, 2018 Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
I second this. Gutthook and Halfmile apps are great for navigating but eTrails provides something different. Like Susan, I really enjoyed reading about the geology, plants and history. In some senses it is different than any other guidebook. With the GPS and PCT mileage, David can point to specific trees or landmarks. With normal guidebooks you can get a sense of the botany but eTrails can let you know exactly where on the trail that unique conifer is or something else of interest. Now that it covers the rest of the PCT it is even better. Thanks, Rover 

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear David & PCT folks, > > eTrails is powerful, wonderful and extremely helpful ? plus for those of > us who used the Wilderness Press guidebooks for decades, eTrails has, in a > separate place, the historical, geological, botanical and downright quirky > insights on the land we all walk thru. I cannot recommend it highly enough! > > Thanks for this updated version, and all you have done to make our hikes > safer, more fun and in the process, helped us learn new things. > > Happy trails, > Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine > > > On Mar 4, 2018, at 8:42 PM, David Money Harris <David_Harris at hmc.edu> > wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > I?m happy to announce eTrails 1.7.1 is now available for free at the App > Store. > > > > eTrails is a free guidebook app that now covers the entire PCT. It > shows your position and the trail overlaid on high quality USGS maps. It > has thousands of points of interest along the trail, including the usual > water sources, campsites, and trailheads, and also lots of information > about the natural and human history along the trail that other guidebooks > lack. The app is available on iOS only. > > > > I finished Washington in 2017 and am happy to say the app now covers the > whole trail. It?s been my way to give back to the community that gave me > so much while hiking. > > > > I am also a guidebook writer with Wilderness Press and eTrails also > covers my books in Orange County and the Inland Empire. > > > > I?m not on Facebook or redit, so I?d appreciate if anyone would forward > this message to interested parties, and to leave positive reviews if you > find eTrails helpful. > > > > Happy hiking, > > > > David Harris > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pct-L mailing list > > Pct-L at backcountry.net > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > > > List Archives: > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 12:38:48 2018
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 10:38:48 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] eTrails 2017: Free PCT Guidebook App for iOS
In-Reply-To: <161f76698e2-17a1-39369@webjas-vae046.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <CAH8m_atbtLXnPz67WWsUGRUGsAW3+QReCi9tZRSuOYDeR1bzMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <161f76698e2-17a1-39369@webjas-vae046.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_aujms-T7K8kmnfGt0QL2p-AeNOc_+XZbrhS8hddx7piBA@mail.gmail.com>

iPhone only, in iPhone App store

https://appadvice.com/app/etrails/621915237

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 10:22 AM, William E Frenette <
groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net> wrote:

> Where do you get etrails at?
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
> ------------------------------
> On Monday, March 5, 2018 Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> I second this. Gutthook and Halfmile apps are great for navigating but
> eTrails provides something different. Like Susan, I really enjoyed reading
> about the geology, plants and history. In some senses it is different than
> any other guidebook. With the GPS and PCT mileage, David can point to
> specific trees or landmarks. With normal guidebooks you can get a sense of
> the botany but eTrails can let you know exactly where on the trail that
> unique conifer is or something else of interest. Now that it covers the
> rest of the PCT it is even better. Thanks, Rover
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com>
> wrote: > Dear David & PCT folks, > > eTrails is powerful, wonderful and
> extremely helpful ? plus for those of > us who used the Wilderness Press
> guidebooks for decades, eTrails has, in a > separate place, the historical,
> geological, botanical and downright quirky > insights on the land we all
> walk thru. I cannot recommend it highly enough! > > Thanks for this updated
> version, and all you have done to make our hikes > safer, more fun and in
> the process, helped us learn new things. > > Happy trails, > Susan from
> Spokane aka Sunshine > > > On Mar 4, 2018, at 8:42 PM, David Money Harris <
> David_Harris at hmc.edu> > wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > I?m happy to
> announce eTrails 1.7.1 is now available for free at the App > Store. > > >
> > eTrails is a free guidebook app that now covers the entire PCT. It >
> shows your position and the trail overlaid on high quality USGS maps. It >
> has thousands of points of interest along the trail, including the usual >
> water sources, campsites, and trailheads, and also lots of information >
> about the natural and human history along the trail that other guidebooks >
> lack. The app is available on iOS only. > > > > I finished Washington in
> 2017 and am happy to say the app now covers the > whole trail. It?s been my
> way to give back to the community that gave me > so much while hiking. > >
> > > I am also a guidebook writer with Wilderness Press and eTrails also >
> covers my books in Orange County and the Inland Empire. > > > > I?m not on
> Facebook or redit, so I?d appreciate if anyone would forward > this message
> to interested parties, and to leave positive reviews if you > find eTrails
> helpful. > > > > Happy hiking, > > > > David Harris > > > > > >
> _______________________________________________ > > Pct-L mailing list >
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > >
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > > > List
> Archives: > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > > All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > > Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission. > > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change
> options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >
> > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change
> options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List
> Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is
> copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without
> express permission.
>

From pctpanama at aol.com  Mon Mar  5 18:10:58 2018
From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 16:10:58 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] List working again?
Message-ID: <B2B75517-BDD7-40BC-A903-E6B1706B38E1@aol.com>

So can I safely assume this list is working again And what seems to be the most popular PCT information site this year ? 

"Sent from my iPhone"

       Brian 

From david at emeraldlake.com  Mon Mar  5 18:47:28 2018
From: david at emeraldlake.com (David Plotnikoff)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 16:47:28 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
Message-ID: <f96d5c83-9e52-1119-0077-e31b133d18bb@emeraldlake.com>

I''m surprised. I'm encouraged. What changed? Certainly nothing on my end.

My fingers are crossed. I hold out some hope all of us can get back to 
our usual conversation.

Brick, did you do something in the last few days to goose things? It 
appears that in the past 48 hours messages are flowing again.

Whatever happened, I'm grateful ...


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon Mar  5 19:15:22 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 17:15:22 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <f96d5c83-9e52-1119-0077-e31b133d18bb@emeraldlake.com>
References: <f96d5c83-9e52-1119-0077-e31b133d18bb@emeraldlake.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=05bxh3ZcXnJV7P5rZrUqnrkbPJYhsqzKFWG_CRizGsw@mail.gmail.com>

Digest mode has been not working, the rest of the list functions have
been working OK.

I was poking around in the software, and I managed to manually
triggers a digest, which gives me some hope.

Now we just have to see if they will automatically trigger. I really
don't want to have to do them manually. Time will tell.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:47 PM, David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:
> I''m surprised. I'm encouraged. What changed? Certainly nothing on my end.
>
> My fingers are crossed. I hold out some hope all of us can get back to our
> usual conversation.
>
> Brick, did you do something in the last few days to goose things? It appears
> that in the past 48 hours messages are flowing again.
>
> Whatever happened, I'm grateful ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Mar  5 19:41:44 2018
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 17:41:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
Message-ID: <201803060141.w261fiUF016270@server-f.oakapple.net>

I'd suggest to anybody that is on the digest to get off the digest and
get regular mail.    By the time you're getting so many messages that you
wish the digest were working, maybe it will be working.

I use an older version of mailman than backcountry.net uses, but I don't think
digests are going out.    There needs to be a minimum volume of postings 
for digests to work, though the details are a mystery to me.

From kenwhite64 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 13:41:20 2018
From: kenwhite64 at gmail.com (Ken White)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 11:41:20 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=05bxh3ZcXnJV7P5rZrUqnrkbPJYhsqzKFWG_CRizGsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f96d5c83-9e52-1119-0077-e31b133d18bb@emeraldlake.com>
 <CALV1Nz=05bxh3ZcXnJV7P5rZrUqnrkbPJYhsqzKFWG_CRizGsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ebdb2dcc-9bc4-e1f2-4fb9-72bf900449e5@gmail.com>

Thanks, Brick. If and when the digest works automatically please let us 
know.


On 3/5/2018 5:15 PM, Brick Robbins wrote:
> Digest mode has been not working, the rest of the list functions have
> been working OK.
>
> I was poking around in the software, and I managed to manually
> triggers a digest, which gives me some hope.
>
> Now we just have to see if they will automatically trigger. I really
> don't want to have to do them manually. Time will tell.
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 4:47 PM, David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:
>> I''m surprised. I'm encouraged. What changed? Certainly nothing on my end.
>>
>> My fingers are crossed. I hold out some hope all of us can get back to our
>> usual conversation.
>>
>> Brick, did you do something in the last few days to goose things? It appears
>> that in the past 48 hours messages are flowing again.
>>
>> Whatever happened, I'm grateful ...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Mar  6 13:51:46 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 11:51:46 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] The BAMM! class for 2018. Daily update.
Message-ID: <322301d3b584$8fa349b0$aee9dd10$@mountaineducation.org>

The BAMM! class for 2018. Update:

 

40/200 = 1/5 or 20% there!

(this is a count of course applications and pledge amounts received to date)

 

This is the charity program set up to provide a vital wilderness safety
class to all early season Sierra hikers, like PCT/JMT thrus, so no one dies
this year.

 

All course and program details here:
<http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-clinics/>
http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-clinics/

 

Deadline: 12 days, March 18, 2018

 

You can register for your own class.
You can donate for someone else to attend the class.

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Tue Mar  6 14:42:20 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 12:42:20 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <ebdb2dcc-9bc4-e1f2-4fb9-72bf900449e5@gmail.com>
References: <f96d5c83-9e52-1119-0077-e31b133d18bb@emeraldlake.com>
 <CALV1Nz=05bxh3ZcXnJV7P5rZrUqnrkbPJYhsqzKFWG_CRizGsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <ebdb2dcc-9bc4-e1f2-4fb9-72bf900449e5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkeJ1oW70pnDcH6WOuSeD2RmwFCxvRF9EyncvuV4s9z6A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Ken White <kenwhite64 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Brick. If and when the digest works automatically please let us
> know.

It didn't go out today automatically, so I am manually sending it
again, and will keep trying to fix it

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Mar  6 16:22:50 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 14:22:50 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] The BAMM! class for 2018
Message-ID: <333101d3b599$aa1edf10$fe5c9d30$@mountaineducation.org>

The BAMM! class for 2018

[Bad-Ass MountainMan!]

 

 

This all began because one man wanted to help hikers attend a snow skills
class!

A few days back, Mountain Education received an unsolicited donation of $150
with a note attached, "Please let this donation pay for a PCT hiker to
attend your class." 

 

The class was already in existence for early season PCT & JMT thru hikers,
so it just needed to be restructured to make this happen!

 

I'm telling you guys by email because you may have Sierra experiences in
your past where you found out the hard way about slippery snow, losing the
trail under snow, falling on snow, and crossing some pretty crazy creeks
during June and July. If, by offering this class, we can help just one
hiker, be a little wiser, be a little safer out there, then we feel the
mission was "completed." 

 

If you know anyone hitting the trail "early" this year, who doesn't know
what he's going to be facing, you can sponsor him with a ticket to attend
the class.

If you want to help a hiker attend this safety class, you can donate to the
mission. 

Both are tax deductible!

 

 

The BAMM! class:

*	Is a 10-hour, 1-day wilderness knowledge and skills course, 
*	taught right on the Pacific Crest Trail just south of the JMT,
*	four miles in from the Cottonwood Pass trailhead, 
*	accessed by the Horseshoe Meadows Road out of Lone Pine, California.
*	Is for all backpackers wanting to maximize their personal safety by
gaining wilderness wisdom and learning steep snow and creek crossing skills.
*	Register yourself, sponsor a hiker, or donate for needy hikers to
attend!

Knowledge and Skills to include:

1.       Steep snow ascent, descent, and traverse skills with Whippet, Ice
axe, microspikes, or hiking crampons (to include glissading,
boot-skiing/skating, heel-plunge, self-belay, and self-arrest)

2.       Snow types, bonds, daily condition awareness, and travel logistics

3.       Over-snow Navigation principles (how to read a topo map and GPS)

4.       Trail Sign Identification & Discovery

5.       Safe Route Selection principles

6.       Avalanche Awareness & Avoidance

7.       Identifying safe creek crossing locations

8.       Safe creek crossing methods and logistics

9.       Hydrology: know what's coming against you

10.   Watching the weather: How to know when a storm is coming your way

11.   Wilderness Medical Emergencies, sign & symptoms, and treatment

12.   Emergency Communications for SAR Rescue

13.   PCT/JMT trail details ahead: Discussion of passes and creeks to the
north

 

 

All the course details are at
<http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-clinics/>
http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-clinics/ 

 

 

Here's how this works:  

1.	200 tickets, or "seats" in the class, will be available for direct
purchase or via donations to be given away to waiting applicants on a
"first-come, first-served" basis.

 

2.	Ticket priority: 

a.	First, direct to hikers applying to attend and intending to buy
their own ticket.
b.	Second, direct to sponsors buying for a specific hiker.
c.	Third, via donor's contributions and allocated to waiting hikers per
"1)," above.

 

3.	Tickets do not go on sale until we have 200 confirmed, either,

a.	Course Applications:

i.	Hikers intending to buy their own tickets.
ii.	Hikers who have a sponsor buying a ticket for them.
iii.	Hikers intending to wait for a chance at the remaining donated
tickets.

b.	Pledge to Donate emails: 

i.	From sponsors for a specific hiker.
ii.	From donor's contributions into a pool to provide tickets.

1.	Anyone can donate to help hikers attend class. 
2.	Increments of $150 provide a ticket per "1)," above.

c.	If we do not receive sufficient interest to provide for 200 tickets,
the BAMM! class will be cancelled, all parties will be notified directly,
and sales will not proceed.

 

4.	Deadline for Applications and Pledges:

a.	March 18, 2018
b.	Mountain Education, Inc. has to confirm the class with the USFS by
March 19, 2018.

 

5.	Once we have received sufficient applications or emails providing
for the sale or give-away of 200 tickets, the announcement will be made, and
ticket sales and donations will begin in the priority listed above.

a.	All tickets not allocated directly to anyone in specific become
available to waiting hikers on a "first-come, first-served" basis.

 

6.	Donations: 

a.	Are tax deductible, if for the charity or another person's use and
not your own.

i.	Mountain Education, Inc is an IRS 501(c)(3) public charity, ID #
47-1263156

b.	Accomplished

i.	First, by Pledge to Donate email stating amount of pledge or for
whom.
ii.	Second, only after announcement to proceed. Donate or pay nothing
now.
iii.	Third, via Mountain Education's PayPal button under the website's
Donation & Tuition tab.

 

7.	What to do:

a.	Fill out a Course Application at
<http://mountaineducation.org/academics/application/>
http://mountaineducation.org/academics/application/ 

i.	Course name is: The BAMM! class.
ii.	Course date is when you expect to arrive there.
iii.	Note somewhere in the application:

1.	your PCT start date.
2.	who is paying for your class, yourself, a known donor, or that you
are waiting for a donated ticket on a "first-come, first-served" basis.

iv.	Pay nothing at this point
v.	Wait for the 200-ticket donation announcement.
vi.	Expect confirmation and direction emails along the way.

b.	Send in a Pledge to Donate email to
<mailto:info at mountaineducation.org> info at mountaineducation.org 

i.	State where your donation is to go

1.	For a specific hiker by name (who has already submitted a course
application)
2.	Toward providing a ticket for a needy hiker.

ii.	State how much you are pledging to donate
iii.	Pay nothing at this point
iv.	Wait for the 200-ticket donation announcement.
v.	Expect confirmation and direction emails along the way.

Sure, we all learned how to backpack "the hard way," and yes, we made it
through alright, but that was a different generation with a little more
"common sense." This generation simply goes and hopes to figure it out along
the way without any experience to draw upon. 

 

Two hikers died in two separate creek crossings last year. They didn't know
what they were doing. They didn't even have to cross the creek! They tried
to because the trail on the map said to. The didn't see that it re-crossed
higher up.

 

That's why this wilderness safety school is working so hard to get the
safety word out!

 

Think about it, will you?

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From mikeflan at att.net  Wed Mar  7 06:13:58 2018
From: mikeflan at att.net (Mike Flannigan)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 06:13:58 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1520368983.48481.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1520368983.48481.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <a0171a0a-e1a1-40aa-7842-86746ef6313e@att.net>


Thanks for taking care of us Digest users.

This problem has occurred for a long time for different
Mailman programs.? It could be a cron job problem:
https://forums.cpanel.net/threads/mailman-wont-send-digests-daily-help.20902/

Or it may be something else.


Mike



On 3/6/2018 2:43 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> Digest mode has been not working, the rest of the list functions have
> been working OK.
>
> I was poking around in the software, and I managed to manually
> triggers a digest, which gives me some hope.
>
> Now we just have to see if they will automatically trigger. I really
> don't want to have to do them manually. Time will tell.


From gary_schenk at verizon.net  Wed Mar  7 09:02:55 2018
From: gary_schenk at verizon.net (Gary Schenk)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:02:55 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <a0171a0a-e1a1-40aa-7842-86746ef6313e@att.net>
Message-ID: <16200fc8c84-1798-66e4e@webjas-vae185.srv.aolmail.net>


 It doesn't matter, really. According to Halfway Anywhere we're all just a bunch of idiots.

"Since all members of the list receive and can reply to all emails, it's more like a spammy clusterfuck of people who have little to zero idea of what they're talking about. Do yourself a favor and stay away from the PCT-L."
https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/pacific-crest-trail/best-pacific-crest-trail-resources/

Moronically yours,
Gary

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Flannigan <mikeflan at att.net>
To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Cc: brick <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Sent: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 4:14 am
Subject: Re: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?

Thanks for taking care of us Digest users.This problem has occurred for a long time for differentMailman programs.  It could be a cron job problem:https://forums.cpanel.net/threads/mailman-wont-send-digests-daily-help.20902/Or it may be something else.MikeOn 3/6/2018 2:43 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:> Digest mode has been not working, the rest of the list functions have> been working OK.>> I was poking around in the software, and I managed to manually> triggers a digest, which gives me some hope.>> Now we just have to see if they will automatically trigger. I really> don't want to have to do them manually. Time will tell._______________________________________________Pct-L mailing listPct-L at backcountry.netTo unsubscribe, or change options visit:http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lList Archives:http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From aslive at charter.net  Wed Mar  7 11:36:16 2018
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2018 09:36:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Atlas
Message-ID: <K5cG1x00P4vAw9g015cGsV@charter.net>

I seem to have lost my PCT Atlas for Northern CA. Does anyone have one
they would be willing to sell? Thanks Shephard

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Wed Mar  7 12:25:35 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:25:35 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <16200fc8c84-1798-66e4e@webjas-vae185.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <a0171a0a-e1a1-40aa-7842-86746ef6313e@att.net>
 <16200fc8c84-1798-66e4e@webjas-vae185.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=N-fc8tngKjttJHqmtOJ5ueiv7o8TE3edGmQ7CsTssPg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:

> "Since all members of the list receive and can reply to all emails, it's
> more like a spammy clusterfuck of people who have little to zero idea of
> what they're talking about. Do yourself a favor and stay away from the
> PCT-L."
> https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/pacific-crest-
> trail/best-pacific-crest-trail-resources/


In the days before Facebook people complained about that. Now the Facebook
PCT groups fit this description instead, and only the expert experienced
dinosaurs remain on PCT-L

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 15:17:11 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:17:11 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=N-fc8tngKjttJHqmtOJ5ueiv7o8TE3edGmQ7CsTssPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0171a0a-e1a1-40aa-7842-86746ef6313e@att.net>
 <16200fc8c84-1798-66e4e@webjas-vae185.srv.aolmail.net>
 <CALV1Nz=N-fc8tngKjttJHqmtOJ5ueiv7o8TE3edGmQ7CsTssPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F111F3B9-EB04-4C50-983B-5DB0B34ED8C5@gmail.com>

Wow - that?s an uncool description  ? Brick, thanks for maintaining this resource for us! 
GoGo

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> "Since all members of the list receive and can reply to all emails, it's
>> more like a spammy clusterfuck of people who have little to zero idea of
>> what they're talking about. Do yourself a favor and stay away from the
>> PCT-L."
>> https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/pacific-crest-
>> trail/best-pacific-crest-trail-resources/
> 
> 
> In the days before Facebook people complained about that. Now the Facebook
> PCT groups fit this description instead, and only the expert experienced
> dinosaurs remain on PCT-L
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Wed Mar  7 15:30:43 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 13:30:43 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <F111F3B9-EB04-4C50-983B-5DB0B34ED8C5@gmail.com>
References: <a0171a0a-e1a1-40aa-7842-86746ef6313e@att.net>
 <16200fc8c84-1798-66e4e@webjas-vae185.srv.aolmail.net>
 <CALV1Nz=N-fc8tngKjttJHqmtOJ5ueiv7o8TE3edGmQ7CsTssPg@mail.gmail.com>
 <F111F3B9-EB04-4C50-983B-5DB0B34ED8C5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <39c901d3b65b$8cfdd180$a6f97480$@mountaineducation.org>

I don't recall when Brick started this listserve, but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another. Compared to the things that people feel free to say via Facebook, this list has done more to get people inspired to get off their chairs and into the mountains than other more "social" media!

Good job over all the years, Brick!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 1:17 PM
To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
Cc: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?

Wow - that?s an uncool description  ? Brick, thanks for maintaining this resource for us! 
GoGo

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> "Since all members of the list receive and can reply to all emails, 
>> it's more like a spammy clusterfuck of people who have little to zero 
>> idea of what they're talking about. Do yourself a favor and stay away 
>> from the PCT-L."
>> https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/pacific-crest-
>> trail/best-pacific-crest-trail-resources/
> 
> 
> In the days before Facebook people complained about that. Now the 
> Facebook PCT groups fit this description instead, and only the expert 
> experienced dinosaurs remain on PCT-L 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 15:44:24 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 15:44:24 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
Message-ID: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>

Tramily -
Who all is getting out on the trail this year? Anyone planning to do a section or the whole thing?
GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Wed Mar  7 16:27:34 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 22:27:34 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
In-Reply-To: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
References: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <032e2c58bf59438690ea94c0606e8608@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I am south-bounding a section of Washington, Stevens Pass to White Pass, around mid-August.

In 2019 I plan is to do a northbound thru hike.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Sabrina Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 1:44 PM
To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?

Tramily -
Who all is getting out on the trail this year? Anyone planning to do a section or the whole thing?
GoGo 

From TBrokaw at montmush.com  Wed Mar  7 16:31:16 2018
From: TBrokaw at montmush.com (TBrokaw at montmush.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 14:31:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
In-Reply-To: <39c901d3b65b$8cfdd180$a6f97480$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <OF4E63E92F.12AFC514-ON88258249.007BB6A3-1520461876718@montmush.com>


I did have one very nagative experience a couple of years back including
some F U type comments. Fortunately, that individual targeted it to my
personal email. But it soured me on the pct-l for a while. Still believe
that 99.9% of hikers are wonderful people. Unfortunately some bad apples in
every group. However, still love reading posts from you all. Happy hiking
all. Barista/Horchata

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 1:32 PM, ned at mountaineducation.org wrote:
>
> I don't recall when Brick started this listserve, but I think I've been
on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame war" or bitchy person rant
their opinions on another. Compared to the things that people feel free to
say via Facebook, this list has done more to get people inspired to get off
their chairs and into the mountains than other more "social" media!
>
> Good job over all the years, Brick!
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Harrison
> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2018 1:17 PM
> To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Cc: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
>
> Wow - that?s an uncool description  ? Brick, thanks for maintaining this
resource for us!
> GoGo
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>> On Mar 7, 2018, at 12:25 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> "Since all members of the list receive and can reply to all emails,
>>> it's more like a spammy clusterfuck of people who have little to zero
>>> idea of what they're talking about. Do yourself a favor and stay away
>>> from the PCT-L."
>>> https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/pacific-crest-
>>> trail/best-pacific-crest-trail-resources/
>>
>>
>> In the days before Facebook people complained about that. Now the
>> Facebook PCT groups fit this description instead, and only the expert
>> experienced dinosaurs remain on PCT-L
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From turfa at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  7 19:18:01 2018
From: turfa at yahoo.com (Chris Cook)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 01:18:01 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
In-Reply-To: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
References: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <12151318.12089391.1520471881859@mail.yahoo.com>

 Yep, heading out from Campo on May 15th. Planning to thru (if all goes well)Words of wisdom welcome !!?? :-)Kaptain

    On ?Thursday?, ?8? ?March? ?2018? ?08?:?44?:?47? ?AM, Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Tramily -
Who all is getting out on the trail this year? Anyone planning to do a section or the whole thing?
GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
  

From imscotty at aol.com  Wed Mar  7 20:36:58 2018
From: imscotty at aol.com (imscotty at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 21:36:58 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Introduction
Message-ID: <1620377fce7-1798-2714c@webjas-vae001.srv.aolmail.net>

I was surprised to get a PCT-l email this week, I thought the list must be dead.  I have switched out of digest mode so I do not get knocked off the mailing list again.


I am a section hiker, I have 720 miles done, from Crabtree Meadow to where the PCT crosses Rt. 5 in Castella, CA.  


This year I am very excited to finally be hiking the desert section starting at Campo.  I have been putting this off since I typically cannot get away from work until summer.  I have a mid-May start date at Campo, so hopefully I won't fry too much.  I hope to get at least 500 miles in, but we will see.  I find it hard to leave the family for too long.


Thanks, for keeping the list going, I find this format more useful than the FB free-for-all.  You can also find me posting sometimes on Whiteblaze as IMScotty.


Happy Trails,
Scott

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 22:04:25 2018
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 20:04:25 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] expert, experienced dinosaurs
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=N-fc8tngKjttJHqmtOJ5ueiv7o8TE3edGmQ7CsTssPg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0171a0a-e1a1-40aa-7842-86746ef6313e@att.net>
 <16200fc8c84-1798-66e4e@webjas-vae185.srv.aolmail.net>
 <CALV1Nz=N-fc8tngKjttJHqmtOJ5ueiv7o8TE3edGmQ7CsTssPg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3EFA801A-27C0-4CC7-BC9C-4DA34238A8E6@gmail.com>

Hurray for expert experienced dinosaurs!  I would add to that description ?respectful?.  I really appreciate the tone of PCT-L.  Thank you all so much for helping me over the years.  Next week off to start at the Mexican border, hoping to go 150 miles and have my first experience of hiking in real desert.

Susan from Spokane/Sunshine

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 10:25 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:02 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>> "Since all members of the list receive and can reply to all emails, it's
>> more like a spammy clusterfuck of people who have little to zero idea of
>> what they're talking about. Do yourself a favor and stay away from the
>> PCT-L."
>> https://www.halfwayanywhere.com/trails/pacific-crest-
>> trail/best-pacific-crest-trail-resources/
> 
> 
> In the days before Facebook people complained about that. Now the Facebook
> PCT groups fit this description instead, and only the expert experienced
> dinosaurs remain on PCT-L
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From david at emeraldlake.com  Thu Mar  8 00:16:20 2018
From: david at emeraldlake.com (David Plotnikoff)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 22:16:20 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] major update of Best on the Crest guide to food and lodging
 on the PCT
Message-ID: <54c57d75-d18a-ea73-fac8-fccf87323bff@emeraldlake.com>

Hello PCT-l.


Best On the Crest: Food and Lodging Along the Pacific Crest Trail has 
been completely updated and vastly expanded.? As always, you will find 
it at

www.emeraldlake.com/pctguide

This is the first top-to-bottom, border-to-border revision in nearly a 
decade.? It's now the digital equivalent of a 120-page book on PCT trail 
towns.

When I started Best on the Crest in 2000, it was intended to augment the 
official PCT town guide and other resources. The town guide has not been 
updated since 2001.

As others have stepped in to fill the great information vacuum left by 
the abandonment of the Wilderness Press guidebooks, I'm upping my game 
with information that I hope will at least partially make up for the 
absence of the town guide. In addition to food and lodging, you're going 
to find more content on post offices, grocery stores, medical care, 
merchants, public transit and logistics.

My fundamental goal has not changed 18 years: To give PCT hikers the 
consumer intelligence they need to make smart choices in town. Please 
direct comments, questions and complaints to PCTfeedback --et 
--emeraldlake.com

All my best,
David Plotnikoff
david -et- emeraldlake.com



From mkwart at gci.net  Thu Mar  8 11:13:23 2018
From: mkwart at gci.net (Mary Kwart)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 09:13:23 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l  and flame wars
Message-ID: <f0dc6e70ba04e2120f7fd7b4590f64f9410148dd@webmail.gci.net>

Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve,
but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame
war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more
than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many
involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has
driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is
in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of
interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system
where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack
Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they
ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go
on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less
prone to flame wars and bitchiness.?
--Mary "Fireweed" Kwart



From ajbiegen at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 11:33:39 2018
From: ajbiegen at gmail.com (Anthony Biegen)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:33:39 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <f0dc6e70ba04e2120f7fd7b4590f64f9410148dd@webmail.gci.net>
References: <f0dc6e70ba04e2120f7fd7b4590f64f9410148dd@webmail.gci.net>
Message-ID: <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>

I have to agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and
misogynistic remarks on the list and in some cases the perpetrators
harassed their target further off list. Piper left the list for that reason
as did others. At times Ned was on the receiving end of flames so I'm
surprised that he doesn't recall the reality of the list's history.

Piper still hikes the trail every year but she showed no interest when I
told her the list was back.

Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the fantasy
nirvana that some people seem to remember.

TrailHacker

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:

> Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve,
> but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame
> war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
> Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more
> than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many
> involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
> boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has
> driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is
> in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of
> interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system
> where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack
> Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
> to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they
> ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go
> on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
> I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less
> prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
> --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Thu Mar  8 11:56:15 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:56:15 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0dc6e70ba04e2120f7fd7b4590f64f9410148dd@webmail.gci.net>
 <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ab4e95256f844eadbf6099b1dbb5e0ad@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I chime in with Fireweed and TrailHacker that the list had its fair share of flames--not only the topics TH identified, but who can forget the searing exchanges on guns, dogs, and mountain bikes? 

But I waded through the occasional garbage because there were so many other valuable conversations that took place. As a section hiker, I often need specific info about a particular section. Posting here I always received knowledgeable responses and solid advice. If I asked about transportation to a trail head, frequently I would receive an offline email offering a ride. So I know this list did--and hopefully still does--reach the trail community that is supportive and willing to share its collective knowledge.

See you at the NorCal Ruck.

Herb 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Anthony Biegen
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:34 AM
To: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars

I have to agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and misogynistic remarks on the list and in some cases the perpetrators harassed their target further off list. Piper left the list for that reason as did others. At times Ned was on the receiving end of flames so I'm surprised that he doesn't recall the reality of the list's history.

Piper still hikes the trail every year but she showed no interest when I told her the list was back.

Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the fantasy nirvana that some people seem to remember.

TrailHacker

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:

> Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve, 
> but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame 
> war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
> Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more 
> than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many 
> involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's 
> boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has 
> driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is 
> in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of 
> interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system 
> where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack 
> Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going 
> to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they 
> ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go 
> on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
> I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less 
> prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
> --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 12:18:16 2018
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:18:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <ab4e95256f844eadbf6099b1dbb5e0ad@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <f0dc6e70ba04e2120f7fd7b4590f64f9410148dd@webmail.gci.net>
 <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ab4e95256f844eadbf6099b1dbb5e0ad@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_as+7YKk13QPxF3FU14PZqO3wF7F+42kv6ghb=nHygA-BQ@mail.gmail.com>

My take is what goes around comes around. Some on this this list have had
no issues casting aspersions on the FB group.  But then complain when
criticism is leveled at us?

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:56 AM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:

> I chime in with Fireweed and TrailHacker that the list had its fair share
> of flames--not only the topics TH identified, but who can forget the
> searing exchanges on guns, dogs, and mountain bikes?
>
> But I waded through the occasional garbage because there were so many
> other valuable conversations that took place. As a section hiker, I often
> need specific info about a particular section. Posting here I always
> received knowledgeable responses and solid advice. If I asked about
> transportation to a trail head, frequently I would receive an offline email
> offering a ride. So I know this list did--and hopefully still does--reach
> the trail community that is supportive and willing to share its collective
> knowledge.
>
> See you at the NorCal Ruck.
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Anthony Biegen
> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:34 AM
> To: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
>
> I have to agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and
> misogynistic remarks on the list and in some cases the perpetrators
> harassed their target further off list. Piper left the list for that reason
> as did others. At times Ned was on the receiving end of flames so I'm
> surprised that he doesn't recall the reality of the list's history.
>
> Piper still hikes the trail every year but she showed no interest when I
> told her the list was back.
>
> Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the fantasy
> nirvana that some people seem to remember.
>
> TrailHacker
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>
> > Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve,
> > but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame
> > war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
> > Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more
> > than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many
> > involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
> > boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has
> > driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is
> > in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of
> > interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system
> > where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack
> > Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
> > to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they
> > ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go
> > on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
> > I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less
> > prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
> > --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 12:22:36 2018
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:22:36 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] major update of Best on the Crest guide to food and
 lodging on the PCT
In-Reply-To: <54c57d75-d18a-ea73-fac8-fccf87323bff@emeraldlake.com>
References: <54c57d75-d18a-ea73-fac8-fccf87323bff@emeraldlake.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_auF3GRkA587JE3dXKkkVoqmD9pJt-XVBziRK7bg7XSyYw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your efforts on this
?! ?
While not essential for PCT planning it adds a great element of adventure.
I really enjoyed reading up on the various towns and
?and wondering what they would be like when I got there. Not quite the same
as Paris, Beijing, ?Sao Paulo but I found Idlywild, Etna, Skykomish and
many other PCT towns had their own charm.  Enjoying the  towns got to be a
big part of my experience and your guide was a big help.

        -Scott



On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 22:16 David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:

> Hello PCT-l.
>
>
> Best On the Crest: Food and Lodging Along the Pacific Crest Trail has
> been completely updated and vastly expanded.  As always, you will find
> it at
>
> www.emeraldlake.com/pctguide
>
> This is the first top-to-bottom, border-to-border revision in nearly a
> decade.  It's now the digital equivalent of a 120-page book on PCT trail
> towns.
>
> When I started Best on the Crest in 2000, it was intended to augment the
> official PCT town guide and other resources. The town guide has not been
> updated since 2001.
>
> As others have stepped in to fill the great information vacuum left by
> the abandonment of the Wilderness Press guidebooks, I'm upping my game
> with information that I hope will at least partially make up for the
> absence of the town guide. In addition to food and lodging, you're going
> to find more content on post offices, grocery stores, medical care,
> merchants, public transit and logistics.
>
> My fundamental goal has not changed 18 years: To give PCT hikers the
> consumer intelligence they need to make smart choices in town. Please
> direct comments, questions and complaints to PCTfeedback --et
> --emeraldlake.com
>
> All my best,
> David Plotnikoff
> david -et- emeraldlake.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From r-sturm at msn.com  Thu Mar  8 04:55:34 2018
From: r-sturm at msn.com (Richard Sturm)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:55:34 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] BAMM class abstracts should be put online
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1520471358.71642.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1520471358.71642.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR14MB04744103D9836B8A78098D60F7DF0@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

PCT hiking is not a local event and has an international appeal.  Since most of us PCT hikers do not live in California or anywhere near this class, we cannot attend an in-person class at one location on the trail.


I suggest you create video highlights of the class and put it online after the class.  The ticketing process appears too complex and besides most of us don't live close enough to attend.  If your true goal is to help "even one" hiker, then it's got to be put online to a wider audience and these are probably the ones who need the information the most.


It's hard to imagine all 10 hours are equally important so perhaps you could cut out the deep theoretical parts and include only the most important 1 hour's worth of abstracts, conclusions and practical survival tips to be put in video form and made available to all of us after the class occurs.  Donations could still be encouraged. I would gladly donate myself.


Richard Sturm

Chicago, IL

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Thu Mar  8 12:31:15 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:31:15 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_as+7YKk13QPxF3FU14PZqO3wF7F+42kv6ghb=nHygA-BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0dc6e70ba04e2120f7fd7b4590f64f9410148dd@webmail.gci.net>
 <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <ab4e95256f844eadbf6099b1dbb5e0ad@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
 <CAH8m_as+7YKk13QPxF3FU14PZqO3wF7F+42kv6ghb=nHygA-BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkKAVLOKuAwe5yXa0-W_m_gPVZONxwtF=nd0hREgExdyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:18 AM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
> wrote:

> My take is what goes around comes around. Some on this this list have had
> no issues casting aspersions on the FB group.  But then complain when
> criticism is leveled at us?


I think there is a huge difference between attacking a person, and
attacking a technology.

I have no problem with people attacking the old tech that powers this list,
as I am well aware of the problems

But I am glad that Yogi et al, have chosen to move their flame wars to
Facebook.

From TBrokaw at montmush.com  Thu Mar  8 14:03:00 2018
From: TBrokaw at montmush.com (TBrokaw at montmush.com)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:03:00 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <1620377fce7-1798-2714c@webjas-vae001.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <OF51ACD657.9D770FA0-ON8825824A.006E234A-1520539380203@montmush.com>


Love to hear other hikers plans . Im long done with the desert sections but
will resume my MYTH hike at Castella where IMSCOTTY left off. May will be
hot. But allow me to suggest trying some night hiking. Being from the cool
central coast, I really suffered in the desert - until I discovered night
hiking. Seemed spooky at first with the thought of snakes, nocturnal
preditors, etc. But it was fantastic. All of the solitude you could want,
cool temps & fast pace. Many reject it thinking you miss the views. But
with some moon & starlight it is very beautiful. Give it a try! Happy
hiking all. Barista/Horchata

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:38 PM, imscotty at aol.com wrote:
>
> I was surprised to get a PCT-l email this week, I thought the list must
be dead.  I have switched out of digest mode so I do not get knocked off
the mailing list again.
>
>
> I am a section hiker, I have 720 miles done, from Crabtree Meadow to
where the PCT crosses Rt. 5 in Castella, CA.
>
>
> This year I am very excited to finally be hiking the desert section
starting at Campo.  I have been putting this off since I typically cannot
get away from work until summer.  I have a mid-May start date at Campo, so
hopefully I won't fry too much.  I hope to get at least 500 miles in, but
we will see.  I find it hard to leave the family for too long.
>
>
> Thanks, for keeping the list going, I find this format more useful than
the FB free-for-all.  You can also find me posting sometimes on Whiteblaze
as IMScotty.
>
>
> Happy Trails,
> Scott
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 14:59:07 2018
From: meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com (Meridith Rosendahl)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 12:59:07 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] is this correct? PCT-l is operating normally again?
Message-ID: <CAEJJFnoeWAas9Zwgaa+GdPkFaEsY2TDMjE-U2UhMz65UaSFmDQ@mail.gmail.com>

Suddenly I am receiving the digests again.  The last one I received before
the digests just published in March was in November, 2016.  So it wasn't
me!!  Whew.

Piper's Mom

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 15:15:42 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:15:42 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Introduction
In-Reply-To: <OF51ACD657.9D770FA0-ON8825824A.006E234A-1520539380203@montmush.com>
References: <OF51ACD657.9D770FA0-ON8825824A.006E234A-1520539380203@montmush.com>
Message-ID: <76A4FB88-8812-42BD-9E7D-071F1A26968F@gmail.com>

Thanks Barista! I?m going to try that this year!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 8, 2018, at 2:03 PM, TBrokaw at montmush.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Love to hear other hikers plans . Im long done with the desert sections but
> will resume my MYTH hike at Castella where IMSCOTTY left off. May will be
> hot. But allow me to suggest trying some night hiking. Being from the cool
> central coast, I really suffered in the desert - until I discovered night
> hiking. Seemed spooky at first with the thought of snakes, nocturnal
> preditors, etc. But it was fantastic. All of the solitude you could want,
> cool temps & fast pace. Many reject it thinking you miss the views. But
> with some moon & starlight it is very beautiful. Give it a try! Happy
> hiking all. Barista/Horchata
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 7, 2018, at 6:38 PM, imscotty at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> I was surprised to get a PCT-l email this week, I thought the list must
> be dead.  I have switched out of digest mode so I do not get knocked off
> the mailing list again.
>> 
>> 
>> I am a section hiker, I have 720 miles done, from Crabtree Meadow to
> where the PCT crosses Rt. 5 in Castella, CA.
>> 
>> 
>> This year I am very excited to finally be hiking the desert section
> starting at Campo.  I have been putting this off since I typically cannot
> get away from work until summer.  I have a mid-May start date at Campo, so
> hopefully I won't fry too much.  I hope to get at least 500 miles in, but
> we will see.  I find it hard to leave the family for too long.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks, for keeping the list going, I find this format more useful than
> the FB free-for-all.  You can also find me posting sometimes on Whiteblaze
> as IMScotty.
>> 
>> 
>> Happy Trails,
>> Scott
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From wildvagabond at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  8 17:09:20 2018
From: wildvagabond at yahoo.com (Rob at wildvagabond ())
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 16:09:20 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] North from Seiad Valley
Message-ID: <ctb52tc2m9tnv9mfgsdibflw.1520550560237@email.android.com>


    
Hello Sages of The PCT.I'm hiking sections and have now hiked from Kennedy Meadows (South) to Seiad Valley.?Next up is Seiad to Ashland or thereabouts.? I'm 68, so huge miles are not going to happen.?
Questions:
1.? What do you suggest as good stopping points about 250 to 350 miles North of Seiad?? Good in terms of ease of access, ability to get back to Seiad, services.?
2. Your guess as a reasonable start date, so I can start planning??
3.? What are the water and other challenges to anticipate?? ?I know there are elevation discrepancies, resulting in snow vs heat and other issues.? What is the best way to manage these issues?? That is, back to the start date and other suggestions.?
Thanks all.?
I am on the False Bravado, yet continue to find the most accurate and reasonable information on sites like this one.? Another example is information about the Grand Canyon - it's better on the yahoo groupo than the FB.? I suppose it's because "true" (dedicated) hikers find it more useful and therefore hang out here?
Thanks for the updated town guide - fabulous. And for the suggestions about other sections I've hiked.?
Rob - Wild Vagabond?
Wherever you go there you are! ?Rob of the WV: ?http://wildernessvagabond.com?

From hikermiker at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  8 17:11:22 2018
From: hikermiker at yahoo.com (Mike Cunningham)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 23:11:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
References: <1930569275.10231476.1520550682619.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1930569275.10231476.1520550682619@mail.yahoo.com>

FWIW the AT list was killed after a newbie flamed pretty much everyone on the list.

hm
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/8/18, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
 To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Thursday, March 8, 2018, 1:18 PM
 
 My take is what goes around comes
 around. Some on this this list have had
 no
 issues casting aspersions on the FB group.? But then
 complain when
 criticism is leveled at us?
 
 On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:56
 AM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com>
 wrote:
 
 > I chime in with
 Fireweed and TrailHacker that the list had its fair share
 > of flames--not only the topics TH
 identified, but who can forget the
 >
 searing exchanges on guns, dogs, and mountain bikes?
 >
 > But I waded through
 the occasional garbage because there were so many
 > other valuable conversations that took
 place. As a section hiker, I often
 > need
 specific info about a particular section. Posting here I
 always
 > received knowledgeable responses
 and solid advice. If I asked about
 >
 transportation to a trail head, frequently I would receive
 an offline email
 > offering a ride. So I
 know this list did--and hopefully still does--reach
 > the trail community that is supportive and
 willing to share its collective
 >
 knowledge.
 >
 > See you
 at the NorCal Ruck.
 >
 > Herb
 >
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>
 On Behalf Of Anthony Biegen
 > Sent:
 Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:34 AM
 > To:
 Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
 > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
 > Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame
 wars
 >
 > I have to
 agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and
 > misogynistic remarks on the list and in
 some cases the perpetrators
 > harassed
 their target further off list. Piper left the list for that
 reason
 > as did others. At times Ned was
 on the receiving end of flames so I'm
 > surprised that he doesn't recall the
 reality of the list's history.
 >
 > Piper still hikes the trail every year but
 she showed no interest when I
 > told her
 the list was back.
 >
 >
 Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the
 fantasy
 > nirvana that some people seem
 to remember.
 >
 >
 TrailHacker
 >
 > On
 Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
 wrote:
 >
 > > Ned
 Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started
 this listserve,
 > > but I think
 I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a
 "flame
 > > war" or bitchy
 person rant their opinions on another."
 > > Although the PCT list serve conveyed
 a lot of info, I remember more
 > >
 than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty
 interactions, many
 > > involving
 Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
 > > boyfriend. All under the guise of
 "free speech" of course. It has
 > > driven many people away from the list
 serve. Plus the fact that it is
 > > in
 a form that you have to wade through to get to anything
 of
 > > interest. White Blaze is a good
 example of a a subject driven system
 >
 > where you can go to a certain subject to get the info
 you need. Jack
 > > Haskel of the PCT
 had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
 > > to develop their own White Blaze type
 site, but I don't think they
 > >
 ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other
 trails, so don't go
 > > on the
 PCTA website to find out what they have done.
 > > I don't like Facebook either, but
 the list serve was not any less
 > >
 prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
 >
 > --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
 >
 >
 > >
 > >
 _______________________________________________
 > > Pct-L mailing list
 > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
 > > To unsubscribe, or change options
 visit:
 > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 > >
 > > List
 Archives:
 > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 > > All content is copyrighted by the
 respective authors.
 > > Reproduction
 is prohibited without express permission.
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Pct-L mailing list
 > Pct-L at backcountry.net
 > To unsubscribe, or change options
 visit:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 >
 > List Archives:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 > All content is copyrighted by the
 respective authors.
 > Reproduction is
 prohibited without express permission.
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Pct-L mailing list
 > Pct-L at backcountry.net
 > To unsubscribe, or change options
 visit:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 >
 > List Archives:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 > All content is copyrighted by the
 respective authors.
 > Reproduction is
 prohibited without express permission.
 >
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective
 authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.
 

From hikermiker at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  8 17:13:36 2018
From: hikermiker at yahoo.com (Mike Cunningham)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 23:13:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>

Like, it was Yogi's boyfriend at the time who killed the AT list.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/8/18, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
 To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Thursday, March 8, 2018, 1:31 PM
 
 On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:18 AM,
 Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com
 > wrote:
 
 > My take is what goes around comes around.
 Some on this this list have had
 > no
 issues casting aspersions on the FB group.? But then
 complain when
 > criticism is leveled at
 us?
 
 
 I
 think there is a huge difference between attacking a person,
 and
 attacking a technology.
 
 I have no problem with people
 attacking the old tech that powers this list,
 as I am well aware of the problems
 
 But I am glad that Yogi et al,
 have chosen to move their flame wars to
 Facebook.
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective
 authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.
 

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Mar  8 17:38:30 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:38:30 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>

Well, I'm not one to point fingers, so I didn't want to say anything negative, but there were three individuals who got on my case pretty much every time I said anything about snow hiking. One threw me off his list back in 2006 or 7 because I was encouraging hikers to enter the Sierra "early" onto, God forbid, snow. (He admitted to me later that he doesn't like snow, doesn't see the sense of hiking on snow, and wouldn't wish it on anyone, so gave me the boot). Ok. Then there were the two who, like rabid dogs, would charge their fence every time I came close or spoke up. No names. You guys can probably figure it out. But, all in all, Brick's pct-l has been a great way for us to share ideas (yes, even to enter the Sierra "early" or carry a little more weight than some would do themselves), backpacking joys, and give warnings about stuff, bad gear, nasty conditions, etc..

Thanks, buddy!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Mike Cunningham
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 3:14 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars

Like, it was Yogi's boyfriend at the time who killed the AT list.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/8/18, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
 To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Thursday, March 8, 2018, 1:31 PM
 
 On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:18 AM,
 Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  > wrote:
 
 > My take is what goes around comes around.
 Some on this this list have had
 > no
 issues casting aspersions on the FB group.  But then  complain when  > criticism is leveled at  us?
 
 
 I
 think there is a huge difference between attacking a person,  and  attacking a technology.
 
 I have no problem with people
 attacking the old tech that powers this list,  as I am well aware of the problems
 
 But I am glad that Yogi et al,
 have chosen to move their flame wars to  Facebook.
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective  authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.
 
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 17:46:15 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:46:15 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
 <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <D490CF5E-5AB5-473C-8C04-A409C7ABBD74@gmail.com>

Ned - you always keep it classy. 
Drama is lame. 
:)
GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 8, 2018, at 5:38 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
> 
> Well, I'm not one to point fingers, so I didn't want to say anything negative, but there were three individuals who got on my case pretty much every time I said anything about snow hiking. One threw me off his list back in 2006 or 7 because I was encouraging hikers to enter the Sierra "early" onto, God forbid, snow. (He admitted to me later that he doesn't like snow, doesn't see the sense of hiking on snow, and wouldn't wish it on anyone, so gave me the boot). Ok. Then there were the two who, like rabid dogs, would charge their fence every time I came close or spoke up. No names. You guys can probably figure it out. But, all in all, Brick's pct-l has been a great way for us to share ideas (yes, even to enter the Sierra "early" or carry a little more weight than some would do themselves), backpacking joys, and give warnings about stuff, bad gear, nasty conditions, etc..
> 
> Thanks, buddy!
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Mike Cunningham
> Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 3:14 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
> 
> Like, it was Yogi's boyfriend at the time who killed the AT list.
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 3/8/18, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Date: Thursday, March 8, 2018, 1:31 PM
> 
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 10:18 AM,
> Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  > wrote:
> 
>> My take is what goes around comes around.
> Some on this this list have had
>> no
> issues casting aspersions on the FB group.  But then  complain when  > criticism is leveled at  us?
> 
> 
> I
> think there is a huge difference between attacking a person,  and  attacking a technology.
> 
> I have no problem with people
> attacking the old tech that powers this list,  as I am well aware of the problems
> 
> But I am glad that Yogi et al,
> have chosen to move their flame wars to  Facebook.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective  authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without
> express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Thu Mar  8 17:50:21 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:50:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
 <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=NH_kr_DqVTHDc8gKGn=sfS_SO9eXDQNBz0o=ov0tWJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:38 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not one to point fingers, so I didn't want to say anything negative, but there were three individuals who got on my case pretty much every time I said anything about snow hiking.


In the history of the list, there have been about half a dozen
"problem" characters. They all worked off list to build support before
they made their shit-show posts, to make sure they could have a lot of
support. In retrospect I should have had a heavier hand with them

And I would never encourage, nor discourage anyone for entering the
Sierra early. I would just suggest they be prepared.

On my hike, I left Crabtree meadows on 13 July. The area around
Forester Pass looked like this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/etjkH6JcJN8UhfzD2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iBWeJ1Ih23BTmJw13

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Mar  8 17:57:46 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:57:46 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=NH_kr_DqVTHDc8gKGn=sfS_SO9eXDQNBz0o=ov0tWJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
 <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
 <CALV1Nz=NH_kr_DqVTHDc8gKGn=sfS_SO9eXDQNBz0o=ov0tWJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <410401d3b739$41c27c00$c5477400$@mountaineducation.org>

My kind of guy!

Mid-July of 1995. Man, I don't remember that year from another up there.
Every year we've taught over Forester (except this year), so they all get
blurry after a while. You sure had a lot of snow for July. Must have been
one helluva winter!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Brick
Robbins
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 3:50 PM
To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:38 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not one to point fingers, so I didn't want to say anything
negative, but there were three individuals who got on my case pretty much
every time I said anything about snow hiking.


In the history of the list, there have been about half a dozen "problem"
characters. They all worked off list to build support before they made their
shit-show posts, to make sure they could have a lot of support. In
retrospect I should have had a heavier hand with them

And I would never encourage, nor discourage anyone for entering the Sierra
early. I would just suggest they be prepared.

On my hike, I left Crabtree meadows on 13 July. The area around Forester
Pass looked like this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/etjkH6JcJN8UhfzD2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iBWeJ1Ih23BTmJw13
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Mar  8 18:08:38 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 16:08:38 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] The BAMM! class for 2018. Update, 3/8/18
Message-ID: <410a01d3b73a$c689eb70$539dc250$@mountaineducation.org>

This is just a quick posting to show you guys where we are with this charity
benefit wilderness class we're trying to host. It was first, just another of
our classes until one man tried to send in (since returned) $150 to help
other hikers less able to get into the class. We need a certain number of
paid "tickets" to make the class feasible. Until we hit that number,
everybody is just pre-registering and waiting for the declaration that it's
"Good to Go!" And, yes, anybody can attend, as long as we are there and they
register in time.

 

 

The BAMM! class for 2018. Update, 3/8/18:





52/200 = 26% there!





(47 direct-pay students plus 2 pledged amounts totalling $225)





This is the charity program set up to provide a vital wilderness safety
class to all early season Sierra hikers, like PCT/JMT thrus, so no one dies
this year.

 

All course and program details here:
http://mountaineducation.org/snow-advanced-clinics/


Deadline: 10 days, March 18, 2018


. You can register for your own class.

. A donor can sponsor you and they'll get a valuable tax deduction.

. You can donate for someone else to attend the class and receive the tax
deduction, also.

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Thu Mar  8 18:10:22 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 16:10:22 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <410401d3b739$41c27c00$c5477400$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
 <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
 <CALV1Nz=NH_kr_DqVTHDc8gKGn=sfS_SO9eXDQNBz0o=ov0tWJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <410401d3b739$41c27c00$c5477400$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <CALV1NznCC6n02xmtPTCxQhKtXOZfi0vHyZ_SdGYkjSSjSe6ViA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:57 PM,  <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
> My kind of guy!
>
> Mid-July of 1995. Man, I don't remember that year from another up there.

The say memory is the first thing to go. Here is the annual snow
graph. 1995 was one of the highest snowfall years in the last 25

http://www.thestormking.com/Weather/Sierra_Snowfall/2015_Snowfall_Plot_web.jpg

The snow was so deep that between KM South and Toulomne I only saw a
handful of people. There were so few that the backcountry rangers were
super friendly and just happy to have someone to talk to.

And everyone freaks-out about snow. But snow is not the problem. The
problem is water.

This was the trail crossing just past Evolution Meadows. I didn't
cross there, as that would have been fatal. Per the advice of the
rangers, I swam the creek upstream in the meadow where the water was
slow, but still deep enough I had to swim.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/awOVItDUecCmcyOY2

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Thu Mar  8 19:01:45 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 17:01:45 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NznCC6n02xmtPTCxQhKtXOZfi0vHyZ_SdGYkjSSjSe6ViA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1211428780.10203917.1520550816737@mail.yahoo.com>
 <40c101d3b736$90d4ab90$b27e02b0$@mountaineducation.org>
 <CALV1Nz=NH_kr_DqVTHDc8gKGn=sfS_SO9eXDQNBz0o=ov0tWJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <410401d3b739$41c27c00$c5477400$@mountaineducation.org>
 <CALV1NznCC6n02xmtPTCxQhKtXOZfi0vHyZ_SdGYkjSSjSe6ViA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <415b01d3b742$330e0e00$992a2a00$@mountaineducation.org>

Same height, same location in July of 2010!


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Brick
Robbins
Sent: Thursday, March 8, 2018 4:10 PM
To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:57 PM,  <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
> My kind of guy!
>
> Mid-July of 1995. Man, I don't remember that year from another up there.

The say memory is the first thing to go. Here is the annual snow graph. 1995
was one of the highest snowfall years in the last 25

http://www.thestormking.com/Weather/Sierra_Snowfall/2015_Snowfall_Plot_web.j
pg

The snow was so deep that between KM South and Toulomne I only saw a handful
of people. There were so few that the backcountry rangers were super
friendly and just happy to have someone to talk to.

And everyone freaks-out about snow. But snow is not the problem. The problem
is water.

This was the trail crossing just past Evolution Meadows. I didn't cross
there, as that would have been fatal. Per the advice of the rangers, I swam
the creek upstream in the meadow where the water was slow, but still deep
enough I had to swim.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/awOVItDUecCmcyOY2
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From hikermiker at yahoo.com  Fri Mar  9 05:54:06 2018
From: hikermiker at yahoo.com (Mike Cunningham)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:54:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
References: <347492542.10398903.1520596446419.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <347492542.10398903.1520596446419@mail.yahoo.com>

Memory is the second thing to go, but I don't remember the first.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3/8/18, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
 To: "PCT" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Thursday, March 8, 2018, 7:10 PM
 
 On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 3:57 PM,?
 <ned at mountaineducation.org>
 wrote:
 > My kind of guy!
 >
 > Mid-July of 1995.
 Man, I don't remember that year from another up
 there.
 
 The say memory is
 the first thing to go. Here is the annual snow
 graph. 1995 was one of the highest snowfall
 years in the last 25
 
 http://www.thestormking.com/Weather/Sierra_Snowfall/2015_Snowfall_Plot_web.jpg
 
 The snow was so deep that
 between KM South and Toulomne I only saw a
 handful of people. There were so few that the
 backcountry rangers were
 super friendly and
 just happy to have someone to talk to.
 
 And everyone freaks-out about snow. But snow is
 not the problem. The
 problem is water.
 
 This was the trail crossing
 just past Evolution Meadows. I didn't
 cross there, as that would have been fatal. Per
 the advice of the
 rangers, I swam the creek
 upstream in the meadow where the water was
 slow, but still deep enough I had to swim.
 
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/awOVItDUecCmcyOY2
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective
 authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.
 

From bmontgomery746 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 09:02:41 2018
From: bmontgomery746 at gmail.com (Brian Montgomery)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 07:02:41 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] This is the year...
Message-ID: <CADdaWmjR47vE+cnDcc2r6P9ZDTumC3e9HqJ7FXVKZ4M3YUpp0A@mail.gmail.com>

... and I'm getting list feeds again!

Did a pitiful little section of the trail in 2012 (Castella to Etna...
sorta)

The kids are financially independent, the retirement checks are rolling
in... my bride is on-board with mailing resupply boxes...  all (well...
most) of my ducks are in a row...  I'm permitted for a April 5th departure
(my 63rd birthday) from the wall, heading north...  I've been dreaming
about doing this for at least a decade (subconsciously probably longer) and
it's about to happen.

Getting in shape, so I gotta get off the keyboard...

Brian Montgomery (NTN-y)

From gary_schenk at verizon.net  Fri Mar  9 10:53:27 2018
From: gary_schenk at verizon.net (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:53:27 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] This is the year...
In-Reply-To: <CADdaWmjR47vE+cnDcc2r6P9ZDTumC3e9HqJ7FXVKZ4M3YUpp0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADdaWmjR47vE+cnDcc2r6P9ZDTumC3e9HqJ7FXVKZ4M3YUpp0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1620bae7437-c89-3e90@webjas-vab193.srv.aolmail.net>


 

 Best of luck!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Montgomery <bmontgomery746 at gmail.com>
To: Pct-L <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 9, 2018 7:12 am
Subject: [pct-l] This is the year...

... and I'm getting list feeds again!

Did a pitiful little section of the trail in 2012 (Castella to Etna...
sorta)

The kids are financially independent, the retirement checks are rolling
in... my bride is on-board with mailing resupply boxes...  all (well...
most) of my ducks are in a row...  I'm permitted for a April 5th departure
(my 63rd birthday) from the wall, heading north...  I've been dreaming
about doing this for at least a decade (subconsciously probably longer) and
it's about to happen.

Getting in shape, so I gotta get off the keyboard...

Brian Montgomery (NTN-y)



From gary_schenk at verizon.net  Fri Mar  9 10:55:16 2018
From: gary_schenk at verizon.net (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:55:16 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
In-Reply-To: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
References: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1620bb024af-c8c-3ee3@webjas-vad095.srv.aolmail.net>


 In April we are going to hike Tehachapi to Walker Pass first of April. Should be good weather, no Herd and a nice way to stretch out the legs.

Gary

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
To: Pct-L <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 1:44 pm
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?

Tramily -
Who all is getting out on the trail this year? Anyone planning to do a section or the whole thing?
GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From gary_schenk at verizon.net  Fri Mar  9 10:59:27 2018
From: gary_schenk at verizon.net (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 11:59:27 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1620bb3fc7d-c86-2ccc@webjas-vaa041.srv.aolmail.net>


 Piper always posted good info. I always thought her hike from Santa Barbara to the PCT was more impressive than any PCT thruhike.

Gary

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Biegen <ajbiegen at gmail.com>
To: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 9:59 am
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars

I have to agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and
misogynistic remarks on the list and in some cases the perpetrators
harassed their target further off list. Piper left the list for that reason
as did others. At times Ned was on the receiving end of flames so I'm
surprised that he doesn't recall the reality of the list's history.

Piper still hikes the trail every year but she showed no interest when I
told her the list was back.

Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the fantasy
nirvana that some people seem to remember.

TrailHacker

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:

> Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve,
> but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame
> war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
> Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more
> than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many
> involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
> boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has
> driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is
> in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of
> interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system
> where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack
> Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
> to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they
> ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go
> on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
> I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less
> prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
> --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 17:55:17 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:17 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] This is the year...
In-Reply-To: <CADdaWmjR47vE+cnDcc2r6P9ZDTumC3e9HqJ7FXVKZ4M3YUpp0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADdaWmjR47vE+cnDcc2r6P9ZDTumC3e9HqJ7FXVKZ4M3YUpp0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5DC5028B-65E9-4035-9B6E-EFD2E066139A@gmail.com>

YAYYY BRIAN!!!!!
It will be roughly 8 years until I can do it. I?m happy for you!
:) GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 9:02 AM, Brian Montgomery <bmontgomery746 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ... and I'm getting list feeds again!
> 
> Did a pitiful little section of the trail in 2012 (Castella to Etna...
> sorta)
> 
> The kids are financially independent, the retirement checks are rolling
> in... my bride is on-board with mailing resupply boxes...  all (well...
> most) of my ducks are in a row...  I'm permitted for a April 5th departure
> (my 63rd birthday) from the wall, heading north...  I've been dreaming
> about doing this for at least a decade (subconsciously probably longer) and
> it's about to happen.
> 
> Getting in shape, so I gotta get off the keyboard...
> 
> Brian Montgomery (NTN-y)
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From david at emeraldlake.com  Fri Mar  9 19:05:31 2018
From: david at emeraldlake.com (David Plotnikoff)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:05:31 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
Message-ID: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>

Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:

In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened 
to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?

I'm pretty sure there were at least a half-dozen times they crossed over 
the line in their attempts to amuse each other. But Brick is a man with 
a very steady hand.

Once, there was someone I really wanted kicked off immediately, and he 
wasn't: Mike the Mountain Bike Troll. It wasn't the subject per se. It 
might have been some kind of mental problem.

DP


From troopharrison at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 19:33:27 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 19:33:27 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
In-Reply-To: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
Message-ID: <32FC781F-3A09-42B5-BC07-5B0C4E7B39CE@gmail.com>

I always thought they were so funny and nice!! Did I miss something?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 7:05 PM, David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:
> 
> Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:
> 
> In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?
> 
> I'm pretty sure there were at least a half-dozen times they crossed over the line in their attempts to amuse each other. But Brick is a man with a very steady hand.
> 
> Once, there was someone I really wanted kicked off immediately, and he wasn't: Mike the Mountain Bike Troll. It wasn't the subject per se. It might have been some kind of mental problem.
> 
> DP
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From abiegen at cox.net  Fri Mar  9 19:55:32 2018
From: abiegen at cox.net (Anthony Biegen)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:32 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <-5130702990978601540@unknownmsgid>
References: <CA+wSonvBU4+bGJ1VADHe+qMVBGq-=3eABMemAZpL6afv3Wk4NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <-5130702990978601540@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CA+wSonuJ7hb63SUmKnQkOzkuGwq1v8nMq-TqbmFmhCE8C-2X2A@mail.gmail.com>

Gary - Piper laughed when I read her your post. She said to say that "the
PCT-L is dead to me!" with a smile on her face.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:

>
>  Piper always posted good info. I always thought her hike from Santa
> Barbara to the PCT was more impressive than any PCT thruhike.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Biegen <ajbiegen at gmail.com>
> To: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 9:59 am
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
>
> I have to agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and
> misogynistic remarks on the list and in some cases the perpetrators
> harassed their target further off list. Piper left the list for that reason
> as did others. At times Ned was on the receiving end of flames so I'm
> surprised that he doesn't recall the reality of the list's history.
>
> Piper still hikes the trail every year but she showed no interest when I
> told her the list was back.
>
> Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the fantasy
> nirvana that some people seem to remember.
>
> TrailHacker
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>
> > Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve,
> > but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame
> > war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
> > Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more
> > than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many
> > involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
> > boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has
> > driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is
> > in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of
> > interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system
> > where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack
> > Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
> > to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they
> > ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go
> > on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
> > I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less
> > prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
> > --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From virgil at baloney.com  Fri Mar  9 20:44:55 2018
From: virgil at baloney.com (virgil)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 18:44:55 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
In-Reply-To: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
Message-ID: <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>

On Friday 09 March 2018 5:05:31 pm David Plotnikoff wrote:
> Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:
>
> In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened
> to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?

Rheinhold was posting to the list late last year.  I have seen anything from 
Switchback in a couple of years.


From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  9 20:11:52 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 02:11:52 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
In-Reply-To: <32FC781F-3A09-42B5-BC07-5B0C4E7B39CE@gmail.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>,
 <32FC781F-3A09-42B5-BC07-5B0C4E7B39CE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB1263C75B6E10A37967407562FFDD0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>


I've met them both many times in person..and they are nowhere near the a-holes that they sometimes seem to be behind their keyboards...I think that they were mostly tongue-in-cheek posters that were just having fun


list member since 2001


Redwood


________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:33 PM
To: david at emeraldlake.com
Cc: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters

I always thought they were so funny and nice!! Did I miss something?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 7:05 PM, David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:
>
> Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:
>
> In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?
>
> I'm pretty sure there were at least a half-dozen times they crossed over the line in their attempts to amuse each other. But Brick is a man with a very steady hand.
>
> Once, there was someone I really wanted kicked off immediately, and he wasn't: Mike the Mountain Bike Troll. It wasn't the subject per se. It might have been some kind of mental problem.
>
> DP
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...



>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...




List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Fri Mar  9 20:27:09 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 02:27:09 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
In-Reply-To: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB126326D6FC4EC567667F1F44FFDD0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>


I've met them both many times in person..and they are nowhere near the a-holes that they sometimes seem to be behind their keyboards...I think that they were mostly tongue-in-cheek posters that were just having fun


list member since 2001


Redwood





________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:05 PM
To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters

Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:

In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened
to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?

I'm pretty sure there were at least a half-dozen times they crossed over
the line in their attempts to amuse each other. But Brick is a man with
a very steady hand.

Once, there was someone I really wanted kicked off immediately, and he
wasn't: Mike the Mountain Bike Troll. It wasn't the subject per se. It
might have been some kind of mental problem.

DP

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...




List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From leestcoast at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 21:33:21 2018
From: leestcoast at gmail.com (Lee Staley)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 19:33:21 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
In-Reply-To: <1620bb3fc7d-c86-2ccc@webjas-vaa041.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <1620bb3fc7d-c86-2ccc@webjas-vaa041.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <99EC4CB4-FE68-428F-9757-F76CCEF20C8F@gmail.com>

Gary?s right on - a lot of imagination, research and sheer grit had to be in Piper?s trek from Santa Barbara to the PCT - very impressive!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2018, at 8:59 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> Piper always posted good info. I always thought her hike from Santa Barbara to the PCT was more impressive than any PCT thruhike.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Biegen <ajbiegen at gmail.com>
> To: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>
> Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Thu, Mar 8, 2018 9:59 am
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
> 
> I have to agree with Fireweed. There was a lot of flame wars and
> misogynistic remarks on the list and in some cases the perpetrators
> harassed their target further off list. Piper left the list for that reason
> as did others. At times Ned was on the receiving end of flames so I'm
> surprised that he doesn't recall the reality of the list's history.
> 
> Piper still hikes the trail every year but she showed no interest when I
> told her the list was back.
> 
> Perhaps those days are gone and the list will live up to the fantasy
> nirvana that some people seem to remember.
> 
> TrailHacker
> 
>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:13 AM Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Ned Tibbits said: "I don't recall when Brick started this listserve,
>> but I think I've been on it since 2005 and have never seen a "flame
>> war" or bitchy person rant their opinions on another."
>> Although the PCT list serve conveyed a lot of info, I remember more
>> than a few incidences on this list serve of nasty interactions, many
>> involving Rheinhold Metzger and that guy who is or was Yogi's
>> boyfriend. All under the guise of "free speech" of course. It has
>> driven many people away from the list serve. Plus the fact that it is
>> in a form that you have to wade through to get to anything of
>> interest. White Blaze is a good example of a a subject driven system
>> where you can go to a certain subject to get the info you need. Jack
>> Haskel of the PCT had said several years ago that the PCTA was going
>> to develop their own White Blaze type site, but I don't think they
>> ever have. I've been concentrating on hiking other trails, so don't go
>> on the PCTA website to find out what they have done.
>> I don't like Facebook either, but the list serve was not any less
>> prone to flame wars and bitchiness.
>> --Mary "Fireweed" Kwart
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 00:42:47 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 22:42:47 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] PCT-l and flame wars
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM0tD+bwkQSYYOT38kBbA7-vs9VTUsv=1g=iTDK5UCnfcw@mail.gmail.com>

Some do not realize how long time list has been around.  I joined this list
after my first PCT thru-hike in 1996 and it had been going before that.  I
have seen flamer come and go.  As has been noted most problematic people
move on after awhile, that leaves us die hards.

I too dislike FB, but not because of the people who cause problems, its
because of the companies data mining practices on their members.  I have
never had a FB account and I do not go to their public web pages.  If a
link goes to FB I move on.  When my family and I hike the PCT in 2015 we
were flamed on FB because we had to use our Spot device.  Other hikers
spoke up for us, but I never saw any of it.

I find the people on this list to be more in tuned with what is going on
along the PCT and, for the most part, more helpful to the current hikers.
In 2015, when we got to Cascade Locks a fire started on Mt. Adams.  I had a
number of other thru-hikers come and ask me what we were going to do.  I
told them I was going to sit and wait for a reroute that someone on this
list would come up with.  It took a half a day and we had a new route to
follow.

I do hope this list continues as a place where people can come and receive
help and encouragement on hiking the PCT.

The Ravens
PCT 96, 15
CDT 17

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 09:37:47 2018
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 07:37:47 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
Message-ID: <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>

Though I?ve hiked 1500 PCT section miles, I am only beginning to use a stove with canisters.  How long should I expect one Snowpeak Gigapower 4 oz canister to last under these conditions?
	
	? boil 2 cups of water for breakfast and for dinner
	? current temperatures from Campo to Hwy 74 are expected to be upper 30s to lower 70s

Thanks for any help you can provide with a simple question about which I just have no clue.

?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine

P.S.  As a section hiker, I only get on the PCT-L when I?m going to be hiking a particular section, and everyone has always been very helpful over the last ten years.  Apparently I have missed out on meanness, which I am delighted about having missed.  Thanks to all who have helped me now and over the years.







From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 09:49:17 2018
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 15:49:17 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3hjHpABQYy9YP4wP2TFWGZO7OnCbjS=cEhiJsidjgtReQ@mail.gmail.com>

For my canister stove (Kovea Spider), I figure 20-25g per day. That's
enough to make a cup of coffee in the morning and cook a 1-pot meal at
night.

Drew

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 8:39 AM Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:

> Though I?ve hiked 1500 PCT section miles, I am only beginning to use a
> stove with canisters.  How long should I expect one Snowpeak Gigapower 4 oz
> canister to last under these conditions?
>
>         ? boil 2 cups of water for breakfast and for dinner
>         ? current temperatures from Campo to Hwy 74 are expected to be
> upper 30s to lower 70s
>
> Thanks for any help you can provide with a simple question about which I
> just have no clue.
>
> ?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine
>
> P.S.  As a section hiker, I only get on the PCT-L when I?m going to be
> hiking a particular section, and everyone has always been very helpful over
> the last ten years.  Apparently I have missed out on meanness, which I am
> delighted about having missed.  Thanks to all who have helped me now and
> over the years.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

-- 
Walking to the light <http://drewsmithblog.com>

From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 09:57:16 2018
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 07:57:16 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <859EC6AF-055F-4A1F-9F16-FFB60336D640@gmail.com>

Hi Susan,
I?ve experimented with the 4 oz container and found that at 5,000 ft altitude here in Reno it?ll boil 600 mi of water 26 times.
Hope
That helps,
Reno Hawk,
Pct
Section hiker

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2018, at 7:37 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:

Though I?ve hiked 1500 PCT section miles, I am only beginning to use a stove with canisters.  How long should I expect one Snowpeak Gigapower 4 oz canister to last under these conditions?
   
   ? boil 2 cups of water for breakfast and for dinner
   ? current temperatures from Campo to Hwy 74 are expected to be upper 30s to lower 70s

Thanks for any help you can provide with a simple question about which I just have no clue.

?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine

P.S.  As a section hiker, I only get on the PCT-L when I?m going to be hiking a particular section, and everyone has always been very helpful over the last ten years.  Apparently I have missed out on meanness, which I am delighted about having missed.  Thanks to all who have helped me now and over the years.






_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 10:13:29 2018
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 08:13:29 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <CAFiWH3hjHpABQYy9YP4wP2TFWGZO7OnCbjS=cEhiJsidjgtReQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
 <CAFiWH3hjHpABQYy9YP4wP2TFWGZO7OnCbjS=cEhiJsidjgtReQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7E1A1C86-4876-4299-A14A-CBB5C19EE27D@gmail.com>

I used a snow peak gigapower during fuel consuming experiment I posted in this string.
Reno Hawk

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2018, at 7:49 AM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:

For my canister stove (Kovea Spider), I figure 20-25g per day. That's
enough to make a cup of coffee in the morning and cook a 1-pot meal at
night.

Drew

> On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 8:39 AM Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Though I?ve hiked 1500 PCT section miles, I am only beginning to use a
> stove with canisters.  How long should I expect one Snowpeak Gigapower 4 oz
> canister to last under these conditions?
> 
>        ? boil 2 cups of water for breakfast and for dinner
>        ? current temperatures from Campo to Hwy 74 are expected to be
> upper 30s to lower 70s
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide with a simple question about which I
> just have no clue.
> 
> ?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine
> 
> P.S.  As a section hiker, I only get on the PCT-L when I?m going to be
> hiking a particular section, and everyone has always been very helpful over
> the last ten years.  Apparently I have missed out on meanness, which I am
> delighted about having missed.  Thanks to all who have helped me now and
> over the years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

-- 
Walking to the light <http://drewsmithblog.com>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From douglastow at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 10:33:36 2018
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 16:33:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail towns, trail magic, and tipping
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>

It's exciting to hear all the folks preparing for their adventure.

To some, it might seem like preaching to the choir, but here goes:

*Trail towns*

Spend some money.  Smile, be patient, and say "thank you."  By your
behavior, change the minds of those who are grumpy.  Scrub your pits and
put on your freshest shirt (?).  Don't be a weenie.

In hotels, don't use their white towels to clean your gear.  They never get
clean after that, and they are a total loss.  Ask the desk if they have
something suitable, or use your bandana or scrub cloth.

*Tipping*

Tip huge.  Good karma.  You'll see.

*Trail magic*

When it's a lonely cooler or a water cache, remember that there might be 50
people just that day passing that point.  When you finish your Coke, take
the empty with you unless a trash container is provided.

When there is a trail angel there, don't treat their generosity like a
buffet.  Again, lots of folks are coming along, and supplies are limited.
Though many trail angels do not accept donations, many cannot continue
their work without them, so always offer.  For overnights, ask what is a
proper donation, and try to give even more.

Remember, *you* are the PCT.

Cheers,

Chipmunk

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 10:50:57 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 09:50:57 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] , trail magic
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7b81b655-b449-0dd5-d893-7fc699fdc9aa@gmail.com>

In 2005 I hiked south from Canada and ran across a trail angel somewhere 
in southern Washington - a phenomenon I'd managed to miss in other 
section hikes.? I was deeply into hiking, my head, and so forth.? I had 
heard of trail angels but never thought they were relevant to my hiking.

I nodded and greeted the couple and started to walk by.? The man almost 
grabbed me and said he had beer and pop and I was welcome to one.? I 
thanked him and continued to move down the trail.? It was pretty funny 
in retrospect - I felt I'd hurt his feelings somehow that I didn't want 
a beer or coke.

I stopped and chugged a PBR or some sort of corporate beer, and chatted 
for a couple minutes before thanking them and moving on.

I appreciated the couple's wanting to affirm my hike, but was a bit 
bemused by the expectation that I stop and hang with them.

Since then I've wondered about the whole phenomenon of "trail magic" or 
"trail angels."? I still think the magic comes out of thin air when you 
need it - a hitchhike, a food bar, a bandage for a cut.? Water stashes 
and coolers and food at road crossings just don't seem like "magic."? 
And for many of today's thrus, the magic seems to be expected.

Just some random thoughts on a Saturday morning...

Jeff
Laramie

On 3/10/2018 9:33 AM, Douglas Tow wrote:
> It's exciting to hear all the folks preparing for their adventure.
>
> To some, it might seem like preaching to the choir, but here goes:
>
> *Trail magic*
>
> When it's a lonely cooler or a water cache, remember that there might be 50
> people just that day passing that point.  When you finish your Coke, take
> the empty with you unless a trash container is provided.
>
> When there is a trail angel there, don't treat their generosity like a
> buffet.  Again, lots of folks are coming along, and supplies are limited.
> Though many trail angels do not accept donations, many cannot continue
> their work without them, so always offer.  For overnights, ask what is a
> proper donation, and try to give even more.
>
> Remember, *you* are the PCT.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chipmunk
>


From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Sat Mar 10 11:22:39 2018
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 09:22:39 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>

Susan, I use the small canisters for my Jet Boil.  They are 3.53 oz. or 100g.  I can depend on getting 20 "boils" with one canister, sometimes a few more.  A "boil" is bringing 2 cups of water to a boil.

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 7:38 AM
To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters

Though I?ve hiked 1500 PCT section miles, I am only beginning to use a stove with canisters.  How long should I expect one Snowpeak Gigapower 4 oz canister to last under these conditions?
	
	? boil 2 cups of water for breakfast and for dinner
	? current temperatures from Campo to Hwy 74 are expected to be upper 30s to lower 70s

Thanks for any help you can provide with a simple question about which I just have no clue.

?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine

P.S.  As a section hiker, I only get on the PCT-L when I?m going to be hiking a particular section, and everyone has always been very helpful over the last ten years.  Apparently I have missed out on meanness, which I am delighted about having missed.  Thanks to all who have helped me now and over the years.






_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From rod at rodmiller.com  Sat Mar 10 13:35:15 2018
From: rod at rodmiller.com (Rod Miller)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 11:35:15 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
 <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <b862ad6d-2208-077b-7ff3-aeeb81a7f4f1@rodmiller.com>

Excellent question. Way back I started scratching a
hash mark on the side of the canister, one hash mark
per cup boiled. Most of this boiling was done at high
(over 6000 feet) elevations. There was quite a difference
in performance among the various brands. I could dig up
some of the data, however, the bottom line is that the
Gas One brand consistently gave more that 30 cup-boils
(one cup boiled) with my Jet Boil titanium stove.
Gas One took some sleuthing to find a consistent source,
which was for me Big 5 Sporting Goods.

-- 
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,  |   O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More     |   2018 Meet is May 24 - 26
http://www.rodmiller.com               |   http://www.oscalewest.com

From Lafferty1 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 10 14:52:39 2018
From: Lafferty1 at yahoo.com (DK Lafferty)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2018 12:52:39 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Thanks for coming back
Message-ID: <19C74B97-7502-4130-ADA4-CB91812EBF74@yahoo.com>



Sent from my iPhone

From mdonnay at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 10 18:46:36 2018
From: mdonnay at yahoo.com (Michael Donnay)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 00:46:36 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] , trail magic
In-Reply-To: <7b81b655-b449-0dd5-d893-7fc699fdc9aa@gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7b81b655-b449-0dd5-d893-7fc699fdc9aa@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <890920255.14950973.1520729196649@mail.yahoo.com>

Jeff, I?completely agree with your points.
If I want a beer or a coke or a meal or any supplies for that matter, I know where to find it... in town.? In the meantime, when I'm in the wilderness I want to enjoy peace, quiet, tranquility, and beautiful sights unmarred by marks of civilization like caches and picnic pop-up tents and the trash that often follows.??
I'm beginning to think that some people provide their fabricated version of "trail magic" to fulfill their own needs.? While many younger hikers now expect it.??It's so contrived and over-played that it's no longer magical.
Authentic trail magic, that as you said, "comes out of thin air" should be rare.? And only when it appears when you least expect it and need it most, will you discover its true magic.
Thanks for sharing.Mike

      From: Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
 To: pct-l at backcountry.net 
 Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 12:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic
   
In 2005 I hiked south from Canada and ran across a trail angel somewhere 
in southern Washington - a phenomenon I'd managed to miss in other 
section hikes.? I was deeply into hiking, my head, and so forth.? I had 
heard of trail angels but never thought they were relevant to my hiking.

I nodded and greeted the couple and started to walk by.? The man almost 
grabbed me and said he had beer and pop and I was welcome to one.? I 
thanked him and continued to move down the trail.? It was pretty funny 
in retrospect - I felt I'd hurt his feelings somehow that I didn't want 
a beer or coke.

I stopped and chugged a PBR or some sort of corporate beer, and chatted 
for a couple minutes before thanking them and moving on.

I appreciated the couple's wanting to affirm my hike, but was a bit 
bemused by the expectation that I stop and hang with them.

Since then I've wondered about the whole phenomenon of "trail magic" or 
"trail angels."? I still think the magic comes out of thin air when you 
need it - a hitchhike, a food bar, a bandage for a cut.? Water stashes 
and coolers and food at road crossings just don't seem like "magic."? 
And for many of today's thrus, the magic seems to be expected.

Just some random thoughts on a Saturday morning...

Jeff
Laramie

On 3/10/2018 9:33 AM, Douglas Tow wrote:
> It's exciting to hear all the folks preparing for their adventure.
>
> To some, it might seem like preaching to the choir, but here goes:
>
> *Trail magic*
>
> When it's a lonely cooler or a water cache, remember that there might be 50
> people just that day passing that point.? When you finish your Coke, take
> the empty with you unless a trash container is provided.
>
> When there is a trail angel there, don't treat their generosity like a
> buffet.? Again, lots of folks are coming along, and supplies are limited.
> Though many trail angels do not accept donations, many cannot continue
> their work without them, so always offer.? For overnights, ask what is a
> proper donation, and try to give even more.
>
> Remember, *you* are the PCT.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chipmunk
>

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

   

From jamesfmiller at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 10 22:58:34 2018
From: jamesfmiller at hotmail.com (James F. Miller)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 04:58:34 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] , trail magic
In-Reply-To: <890920255.14950973.1520729196649@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7b81b655-b449-0dd5-d893-7fc699fdc9aa@gmail.com>,
 <890920255.14950973.1520729196649@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLUPR0301MB2098B581FFB76B4D73F064B7CADC0@BLUPR0301MB2098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Jeffrey,

Id say you are right on. There is an expectation.....

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Michael Donnay <mdonnay at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:46:36 PM
To: Jeffrey Olson; Pct Mailing List
Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic

Jeff, I completely agree with your points.
If I want a beer or a coke or a meal or any supplies for that matter, I know where to find it... in town.  In the meantime, when I'm in the wilderness I want to enjoy peace, quiet, tranquility, and beautiful sights unmarred by marks of civilization like caches and picnic pop-up tents and the trash that often follows.
I'm beginning to think that some people provide their fabricated version of "trail magic" to fulfill their own needs.  While many younger hikers now expect it.  It's so contrived and over-played that it's no longer magical.
Authentic trail magic, that as you said, "comes out of thin air" should be rare.  And only when it appears when you least expect it and need it most, will you discover its true magic.
Thanks for sharing.Mike

      From: Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
 To: pct-l at backcountry.net
 Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 12:51 AM
 Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic

In 2005 I hiked south from Canada and ran across a trail angel somewhere
in southern Washington - a phenomenon I'd managed to miss in other
section hikes.  I was deeply into hiking, my head, and so forth.  I had
heard of trail angels but never thought they were relevant to my hiking.

I nodded and greeted the couple and started to walk by.  The man almost
grabbed me and said he had beer and pop and I was welcome to one.  I
thanked him and continued to move down the trail.  It was pretty funny
in retrospect - I felt I'd hurt his feelings somehow that I didn't want
a beer or coke.

I stopped and chugged a PBR or some sort of corporate beer, and chatted
for a couple minutes before thanking them and moving on.

I appreciated the couple's wanting to affirm my hike, but was a bit
bemused by the expectation that I stop and hang with them.

Since then I've wondered about the whole phenomenon of "trail magic" or
"trail angels."  I still think the magic comes out of thin air when you
need it - a hitchhike, a food bar, a bandage for a cut.  Water stashes
and coolers and food at road crossings just don't seem like "magic."
And for many of today's thrus, the magic seems to be expected.

Just some random thoughts on a Saturday morning...

Jeff
Laramie

On 3/10/2018 9:33 AM, Douglas Tow wrote:
> It's exciting to hear all the folks preparing for their adventure.
>
> To some, it might seem like preaching to the choir, but here goes:
>
> *Trail magic*
>
> When it's a lonely cooler or a water cache, remember that there might be 50
> people just that day passing that point.  When you finish your Coke, take
> the empty with you unless a trash container is provided.
>
> When there is a trail angel there, don't treat their generosity like a
> buffet.  Again, lots of folks are coming along, and supplies are limited.
> Though many trail angels do not accept donations, many cannot continue
> their work without them, so always offer.  For overnights, ask what is a
> proper donation, and try to give even more.
>
> Remember, *you* are the PCT.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chipmunk
>

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Sun Mar 11 08:37:44 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:37:44 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
In-Reply-To: <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
References: <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
Message-ID: <16215480265-c8a-f0c3@webjas-vae061.srv.aolmail.net>

I get emails from switchback every once in a while & also from JMT REINHOLD, 
    Ground Pounder Bill 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Friday, March 9, 2018 virgil <virgil at baloney.com> wrote:
On Friday 09 March 2018 5:05:31 pm David Plotnikoff wrote:
> Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:
>
> In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened
> to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?

Rheinhold was posting to the list late last year. I have seen anything from 
Switchback in a couple of years.

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Sun Mar 11 08:41:15 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:41:15 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR14MB1263C75B6E10A37967407562FFDD0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR14MB1263C75B6E10A37967407562FFDD0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <162154b3bb1-c8b-f065@webjas-vad010.srv.aolmail.net>

Your right REDWOOD, both a couple of Great guys & both VIETNAM VETS

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Friday, March 9, 2018 Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com> wrote:

I've met them both many times in person..and they are nowhere near the a-holes that they sometimes seem to be behind their keyboards...I think that they were mostly tongue-in-cheek posters that were just having fun


list member since 2001


Redwood


________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 9, 2018 5:33 PM
To: david at emeraldlake.com
Cc: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] a triggering question about some familiar characters

I always thought they were so funny and nice!! Did I miss something?

Sent from my iPhone

> 

On Mar 9, 2018, at 7:05 PM, David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:
>
> Now that the digest is alive again, I have to ask:
>
> In the two years I was "gone" (I never really went away) what happened to Switchback the Trail Pirate and JMT Rheinhold?
>
> I'm pretty sure there were at least a half-dozen times they crossed over the line in their attempts to amuse each other. But Brick is a man with a very steady hand.
>
> Once, there was someone I really wanted kicked off immediately, and he wasn't: Mike the Mountain Bike Troll. It wasn't the subject per se. It might have been some kind of mental problem.
>
> DP
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...



>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...




List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 11 11:51:56 2018
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 16:51:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
References: <1938331068.11065562.1520787116558.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1938331068.11065562.1520787116558@mail.yahoo.com>

To those that feel like they might want to go and do the whole cooler thing:
Please, don't.? Untended coolers often times end up as trash heaps.? If you must, don't unless you also have the time to go back and fetch the remnants.? Even then, please, don't.? Too much of the trash will escape.
If you must do the whole food / soda thing, make it attended.? That way, no trash will escape.
The down side of this is the time and cost involved.? If you're out to do a real magic (unannounced, pop up for a brief time), it'll be for only one day and cost will be minimal.? Many choose to make it multi day or longer - time and cost goes up proportionally.
Consider an alternate form of helping the hikers that doesn't involve increasing their sense of entitlement or risking trash.? I've found being on trail crew to be a wonderful way of giving back to or helping the hikers.? Time is no different than someone who sticks around to tend a magic, but the payoff helps so many more people.? On a soda magic, only those that pass by when you happen to be there are benefited.? With trail crew, EVERYONE does.? Sections I've maintained here in Washington have been benefiting hikers since 2010, when I cleared them of brush.? I've given the magic of a better trail to every hiker - day, section or thru, that passed by that spot since August 2010.? Those 16 or so hours, in combination with the other 4 people on that first crew, are a gift that has been given ever since.? Talk about a return on time investment....Anyways, the cool part of doing trail crew is that often times we're out during hiker season and get to interact with the hikers as well.? Bringing some extra goodies in the pack is a good way to dish some true magic.
Ask anyone from 2016 who went through the mess of blow down south of Crater Lake if they would have preferred a soda or more volunteers on the crosscut saw teams.
Anyways....for your consideration.
Glad to see the PCT-L come back to life after so long being more or less dormant.


From douglastow at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 18:34:05 2018
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:34:05 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOtD+0KxD2yikf5cP0QPhqv0UQv5fbyaXb+U+QK=Parwbw@mail.gmail.com>

I have read posts that sound disparaging toward trail magic and those that
provide it.

I certainly respect that any person might not enjoy or partake in trail
magic or other help along the trail, and that they would never consider
taking any time or resources of their own to help a hiker that they didn't
know.

1.  If you have intended to pass by trail magic, and felt pressured to stop
and have a beer, and actually stopped and had that beer, that's on you.
2.  Did you walk into South Lake Tahoe, or Ashland, or Truckee?  Or maybe
you hitched, which meant someone helped you out, and that's just flat out
trail magic.
3.  Did you stop at the Saufley's, or Dinsmore's?  Do you know about Scout
and Frodo?  How about Coppertone?  If yes, and you disparage trail magic,
you might be a hypocrite.  These saints have given their hearts and
pocketbooks to help thousands of hikers.

So, fellow pct-l posters, give me a hand.  Just post a short experience
that you had with some kindness you received from a non-hiker.  Or, post
that you were annoyed by someone at a road crossing who was just helping
hikers to make himself or herself feel better about themselves.  Hmmm...

Cheers,

Chipmunk

From twizstix at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 19:44:05 2018
From: twizstix at gmail.com (Karl Jorgensen)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 18:44:05 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
Message-ID: <CAAYim0cp7KbeRdzQqUWMDeKCMeJdnM7UHSEuENx=BN0Eyycndw@mail.gmail.com>

I hiked the trail in 2006, and the first trail magic I encountered was just
before Werner Springs.   It was in the morning, and as I walked along,
there was a fellow coming towards me, and just before we reached each
other, he reached into a bag that he was carrying and pulled out an orange
and handed it toward me and ask, would you like an orange.  I think that
was the best orange that I have ever eaten.

jorgy. 2006

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 19:50:37 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 18:50:37 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
In-Reply-To: <CAAYim0cp7KbeRdzQqUWMDeKCMeJdnM7UHSEuENx=BN0Eyycndw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAYim0cp7KbeRdzQqUWMDeKCMeJdnM7UHSEuENx=BN0Eyycndw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0844f196-c56a-69a7-0f66-38c5369d8fd7@gmail.com>

When I hiked in 2005, I met three guys who'd just graduated from 
college.? They started at Stevens Pass and ended at Whitney.? I'd put a 
whole bunch of Bear Valley Pemmican bars in my resupply boxes and wasn't 
eating all of them in between resupplies, so I put them in hiker boxes.? 
After three or four weeks, they told me they waited for me to put the 
bars I hadn't eaten in the hiker boxes and then immediately grabbed 
them.? I was a kind of trail angel...

Jeff


On 3/11/2018 6:44 PM, Karl Jorgensen wrote:
> I hiked the trail in 2006, and the first trail magic I encountered was just
> before Werner Springs.   It was in the morning, and as I walked along,
> there was a fellow coming towards me, and just before we reached each
> other, he reached into a bag that he was carrying and pulled out an orange
> and handed it toward me and ask, would you like an orange.  I think that
> was the best orange that I have ever eaten.
>
> jorgy. 2006
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From windsor.jj at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 09:32:30 2018
From: windsor.jj at gmail.com (windsor.jj at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 10:32:30 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] , trail magic
In-Reply-To: <BLUPR0301MB2098B581FFB76B4D73F064B7CADC0@BLUPR0301MB2098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7b81b655-b449-0dd5-d893-7fc699fdc9aa@gmail.com>
 <890920255.14950973.1520729196649@mail.yahoo.com>
 <BLUPR0301MB2098B581FFB76B4D73F064B7CADC0@BLUPR0301MB2098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <11C617F6-128B-4257-A9A8-D68CF2C4D9C3@gmail.com>

Trail magic should be a joy and not an expectation for both the giver and receiver. Best trail magic I?ve ever had:  coming down Mt. Moosilauke on our southbound AT thru hike, SilverSpring and I met a group of guys with a backpack full of dry ice, beer and ice cream sandwiches.  The guys enjoyed our delight at drinking a Guinness and eating ice cream at 9 in the morning as much as we did!  It was a 10 minute encounter?we still smile every time we tell this story.

- TurtleHawk

> On Mar 10, 2018, at 23:58, James F. Miller <jamesfmiller at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Jeffrey,
> 
> Id say you are right on. There is an expectation.....
> 
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Michael Donnay <mdonnay at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:46:36 PM
> To: Jeffrey Olson; Pct Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic
> 
> Jeff, I completely agree with your points.
> If I want a beer or a coke or a meal or any supplies for that matter, I know where to find it... in town.  In the meantime, when I'm in the wilderness I want to enjoy peace, quiet, tranquility, and beautiful sights unmarred by marks of civilization like caches and picnic pop-up tents and the trash that often follows.
> I'm beginning to think that some people provide their fabricated version of "trail magic" to fulfill their own needs.  While many younger hikers now expect it.  It's so contrived and over-played that it's no longer magical.
> Authentic trail magic, that as you said, "comes out of thin air" should be rare.  And only when it appears when you least expect it and need it most, will you discover its true magic.
> Thanks for sharing.Mike
> 
>      From: Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 12:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic
> 
> In 2005 I hiked south from Canada and ran across a trail angel somewhere
> in southern Washington - a phenomenon I'd managed to miss in other
> section hikes.  I was deeply into hiking, my head, and so forth.  I had
> heard of trail angels but never thought they were relevant to my hiking.
> 
> I nodded and greeted the couple and started to walk by.  The man almost
> grabbed me and said he had beer and pop and I was welcome to one.  I
> thanked him and continued to move down the trail.  It was pretty funny
> in retrospect - I felt I'd hurt his feelings somehow that I didn't want
> a beer or coke.
> 
> I stopped and chugged a PBR or some sort of corporate beer, and chatted
> for a couple minutes before thanking them and moving on.
> 
> I appreciated the couple's wanting to affirm my hike, but was a bit
> bemused by the expectation that I stop and hang with them.
> 
> Since then I've wondered about the whole phenomenon of "trail magic" or
> "trail angels."  I still think the magic comes out of thin air when you
> need it - a hitchhike, a food bar, a bandage for a cut.  Water stashes
> and coolers and food at road crossings just don't seem like "magic."
> And for many of today's thrus, the magic seems to be expected.
> 
> Just some random thoughts on a Saturday morning...
> 
> Jeff
> Laramie
> 
>> On 3/10/2018 9:33 AM, Douglas Tow wrote:
>> It's exciting to hear all the folks preparing for their adventure.
>> 
>> To some, it might seem like preaching to the choir, but here goes:
>> 
>> *Trail magic*
>> 
>> When it's a lonely cooler or a water cache, remember that there might be 50
>> people just that day passing that point.  When you finish your Coke, take
>> the empty with you unless a trash container is provided.
>> 
>> When there is a trail angel there, don't treat their generosity like a
>> buffet.  Again, lots of folks are coming along, and supplies are limited.
>> Though many trail angels do not accept donations, many cannot continue
>> their work without them, so always offer.  For overnights, ask what is a
>> proper donation, and try to give even more.
>> 
>> Remember, *you* are the PCT.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Chipmunk
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 11 22:34:26 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 03:34:26 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] , trail magic
In-Reply-To: <11C617F6-128B-4257-A9A8-D68CF2C4D9C3@gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOsYaLGzXA4Dk4b8AyaU4c47kesD=05nB8ZrFfKohsOyHA@mail.gmail.com>
 <7b81b655-b449-0dd5-d893-7fc699fdc9aa@gmail.com>
 <890920255.14950973.1520729196649@mail.yahoo.com>
 <BLUPR0301MB2098B581FFB76B4D73F064B7CADC0@BLUPR0301MB2098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>,
 <11C617F6-128B-4257-A9A8-D68CF2C4D9C3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB126387FAC967F528FD7DAE23FFD30@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>


My favorite trail magic was by non-angels....During one of the crossings of the Angeles Crest Highway, I happened to stop at a roadside rest area on May 5th...There was a huge group of people celebrating Cinco de Mayo that day....I was nervous at first, but after talking to a couple of folk there about what i was attempting, i got invited to the best BBQ and Mexican food buffet that i have ever experienced...tuned into a zero day, but damn..that a fun day...

________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of windsor.jj at gmail.com <windsor.jj at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 7:32 AM
To: James F. Miller
Cc: Pct Mailing List
Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic

Trail magic should be a joy and not an expectation for both the giver and receiver. Best trail magic I?ve ever had:  coming down Mt. Moosilauke on our southbound AT thru hike, SilverSpring and I met a group of guys with a backpack full of dry ice, beer and ice cream sandwiches.  The guys enjoyed our delight at drinking a Guinness and eating ice cream at 9 in the morning as much as we did!  It was a 10 minute encounter?we still smile every time we tell this story.

- TurtleHawk

> On Mar 10, 2018, at 23:58, James F. Miller <jamesfmiller at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Jeffrey,
>
> Id say you are right on. There is an expectation.....
>
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Michael Donnay <mdonnay at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2018 4:46:36 PM
> To: Jeffrey Olson; Pct Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic
>
> Jeff, I completely agree with your points.
> If I want a beer or a coke or a meal or any supplies for that matter, I know where to find it... in town.  In the meantime, when I'm in the wilderness I want to enjoy peace, quiet, tranquility, and beautiful sights unmarred by marks of civilization like caches and picnic pop-up tents and the trash that often follows.
> I'm beginning to think that some people provide their fabricated version of "trail magic" to fulfill their own needs.  While many younger hikers now expect it.  It's so contrived and over-played that it's no longer magical.
> Authentic trail magic, that as you said, "comes out of thin air" should be rare.  And only when it appears when you least expect it and need it most, will you discover its true magic.
> Thanks for sharing.Mike
>
>      From: Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 12:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] , trail magic
>
> In 2005 I hiked south from Canada and ran across a trail angel somewhere
> in southern Washington - a phenomenon I'd managed to miss in other
> section hikes.  I was deeply into hiking, my head, and so forth.  I had
> heard of trail angels but never thought they were relevant to my hiking.
>
> I nodded and greeted the couple and started to walk by.  The man almost
> grabbed me and said he had beer and pop and I was welcome to one.  I
> thanked him and continued to move down the trail.  It was pretty funny
> in retrospect - I felt I'd hurt his feelings somehow that I didn't want
> a beer or coke.
>
> I stopped and chugged a PBR or some sort of corporate beer, and chatted
> for a couple minutes before thanking them and moving on.
>
> I appreciated the couple's wanting to affirm my hike, but was a bit
> bemused by the expectation that I stop and hang with them.
>
> Since then I've wondered about the whole phenomenon of "trail magic" or
> "trail angels."  I still think the magic comes out of thin air when you
> need it - a hitchhike, a food bar, a bandage for a cut.  Water stashes
> and coolers and food at road crossings just don't seem like "magic."
> And for many of today's thrus, the magic seems to be expected.
>
> Just some random thoughts on a Saturday morning...
>
> Jeff
> Laramie
>
>> On 3/10/2018 9:33 AM, Douglas Tow wrote:
>> It's exciting to hear all the folks preparing for their adventure.
>>
>> To some, it might seem like preaching to the choir, but here goes:
>>
>> *Trail magic*
>>
>> When it's a lonely cooler or a water cache, remember that there might be 50
>> people just that day passing that point.  When you finish your Coke, take
>> the empty with you unless a trash container is provided.
>>
>> When there is a trail angel there, don't treat their generosity like a
>> buffet.  Again, lots of folks are coming along, and supplies are limited.
>> Though many trail angels do not accept donations, many cannot continue
>> their work without them, so always offer.  For overnights, ask what is a
>> proper donation, and try to give even more.
>>
>> Remember, *you* are the PCT.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Chipmunk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...



>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...



>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...



>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
mailman.backcountry.net
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to ...




List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From douglastow at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 23:19:18 2018
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:19:18 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOtGb1SertDJut7DWimoYsPKXzxYRDG00bUw9PY1G5VXvA@mail.gmail.com>

To M, with respect,

M, you got me.  I only help hikers to fulfill my own needs.  Please share
with the pct-l readers if you suggest that it would be best for everyone
for me to stop.  I will pass on your wisdom to other trail angels.

They are sure to take your thoughts under serious consideration.

Chipmunk

From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Sun Mar 11 23:29:57 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:29:57 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB1263FFD8904B7ABA5D611DD0FFD30@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

My favorite trail magic was by non-angels....During one of the crossings of the Angeles Crest Highway, I happened to stop at a roadside rest area on May 5th...There was a huge group of people celebrating Cinco de Mayo that day....I was nervous at first, but after talking to a couple of folk there about what i was attempting, i got invited to the best BBQ and Mexican food buffet that i have ever experienced...tuned into a zero day, but damn..that was a fun day...


"?D?nde es la peda?"


From ajbiegen at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 23:32:38 2018
From: ajbiegen at gmail.com (Anthony Biegen)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 04:32:38 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOtGb1SertDJut7DWimoYsPKXzxYRDG00bUw9PY1G5VXvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOtGb1SertDJut7DWimoYsPKXzxYRDG00bUw9PY1G5VXvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+wSontfL6S63LZiD-GR-7XqLx8OsnQp36a=LS5JOG+bbX2Gfg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Chipmunk

I ran into your trail magic a couple of years ago. I really appreciated it
and it was nice talking to you and the other hikers that stopped there. It
was a real surprise for me. Great breakfast.

Thanks

TrailHacker

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 9:19 PM Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com> wrote:

> To M, with respect,
>
> M, you got me.  I only help hikers to fulfill my own needs.  Please share
> with the pct-l readers if you suggest that it would be best for everyone
> for me to stop.  I will pass on your wisdom to other trail angels.
>
> They are sure to take your thoughts under serious consideration.
>
> Chipmunk
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From aslive at charter.net  Sun Mar 11 23:35:52 2018
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 21:35:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic
Message-ID: <Lsbs1x00901Jj4c01sbsfr@charter.net>

I used to do trail magic for hikers coming out of Deep Creek Canyon.
Root beer floats and hot dogs etc. The hikers always seemed to enjoy
it and of course no one had to stop. I have only run into trail magic
twice myself: once at Carson Pass and once at Sanonia Pass. I expected
neither but was happy to run into it both times. This whole question
seems a bit strange to me. If you want to take advantage of the
generosity of strangers, do so and if you don't don't, simple. Why all
the fuss?
Shepherd

From baidarker at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:36:33 2018
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 05:36:33 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
In-Reply-To: <0844f196-c56a-69a7-0f66-38c5369d8fd7@gmail.com>
References: <CAAYim0cp7KbeRdzQqUWMDeKCMeJdnM7UHSEuENx=BN0Eyycndw@mail.gmail.com>
 <0844f196-c56a-69a7-0f66-38c5369d8fd7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj121KaoHc925K0T8uwkSbKpdGVGrn6LkTm8212dHqQsB8w@mail.gmail.com>

Trail magic, from established angels like the Saufleys or Dinsmores, God I
miss Andrea already, or from folks who don?t even know they?re angels, has
always be a total delight to me. Heck, I?ll take all the help I can get on
any trail I hike. This summer on the Te Araroa in New Zealand, it has been
no different from in the States. The Kiwis are some of the friendliest and
most giving people I?ve ever encountered, European background and Maori.

On a weeklong kayak paddle of the Whanganui River, all part of the TA,
Coyote and I realized we?d left our hiking poles with our backpacks at the
kayak rental company, forgetting that we needed them to pitch our little
cuben tents. As the sand flies will eat you alive if you cowboy camp, we
needed shelter at the Department of Conservation huts along the way.

On the fourth evening we went past the hut we could have stayed in so as to
make more miles down river. When we all got hungry, we pulled up on a
beach, and made our way up to a small village above the bank. As we
approached the buildings we could hear some pretty good American Oldies
blasting out over the river and had no idea what we were in for.  We had in
fact walked into an in progress, Maori, 40th birthday party, a three day
affair. People were dancing and drinking and feasting on venison shot the
day before by the birthday boy, whose mother, rather inebriated herself,
happened to have a few small cabins we could rent for $20 a night. After
she settled us in, we were all invited to come and join the festivities.

Holy smokes what a feast!  All the beer we could drink, venison and salads
we could eat, and we were made to feel like we were part of the extended
Maori family we?d dropped in on. What lovely people!  We learned to head
greet properly, and did so with many partyers, admired some of the most
beautiful body tattoos we?d ever seen, and danced way past hiker midnight.
The only downside was that we all pass out not long after the sun goes down
and that party raged till the next day, so we didn?t get the best night?s
rest. But that was a small price to pay for such cross cultural, and
genuine, hospitality.

That?s just one bit of magic from this hike, but there?s been so many on
every hike. I don?t look for magic, but I sure cherish it when it happens.

Shroomer

On Mon, Mar 12, 30 Heisei at 1:50 PM Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> When I hiked in 2005, I met three guys who'd just graduated from
> college.  They started at Stevens Pass and ended at Whitney.  I'd put a
> whole bunch of Bear Valley Pemmican bars in my resupply boxes and wasn't
> eating all of them in between resupplies, so I put them in hiker boxes.
> After three or four weeks, they told me they waited for me to put the
> bars I hadn't eaten in the hiker boxes and then immediately grabbed
> them.  I was a kind of trail angel...
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On 3/11/2018 6:44 PM, Karl Jorgensen wrote:
> > I hiked the trail in 2006, and the first trail magic I encountered was
> just
> > before Werner Springs.   It was in the morning, and as I walked along,
> > there was a fellow coming towards me, and just before we reached each
> > other, he reached into a bag that he was carrying and pulled out an
> orange
> > and handed it toward me and ask, would you like an orange.  I think that
> > was the best orange that I have ever eaten.
> >
> > jorgy. 2006
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From mdonnay at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 12 04:24:25 2018
From: mdonnay at yahoo.com (Michael Donnay)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 09:24:25 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics
References: <661668480.15610011.1520846665748.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <661668480.15610011.1520846665748@mail.yahoo.com>

My favorite trail magic experience happened when I was walking the LA Aqueduct in the blazing summer heat and a truck approached slowly with ice-cold bottles of Gatorade extended out of the driver's window.? Amazing!? It was an incredibly kind and thoughtful gesture from a complete stranger, which I accepted graciously.? I have?shared this story and many other random acts of kindness that I experienced on the trail since they were an integral part of my hike.
I apologize for offending anyone with my callous?post - especially all the wonderful, caring trail angels out there who give so much to help hikers.? My post was poorly thought-out.
I have enjoyed rides in and out of towns and stayed at incredible trail angels' homes like the legendary?Saufley's Hiker Heaven and others who did not even know the concept of "trail magic".? I am forever appreciative of these amazing people's kindness and generosity and have been inspired to reciprocate since my trail hike.
Reading Jeff's initial post on the topic brought back memories of a very similar experience.? I was hiking deep in thought in a thick forest and came upon a remote logging road.? There was a very well-meaning trail angel with a?pop-up picnic tent, fold-out tables and chairs, a BBQ grill billowing thick smoke, a banner strung up in trees, and music.? It overwhelmed me as I was enjoying the peace and serenity of the forest and this "outpost of civilization" seemed completely out of place (to me).? I greeted the trail angel and walked on, but he seemed shocked that I would not want to stop, sit, have a drink, and hang out with him.? He almost seemed offended when I politely declined his kind and generous offer, as though I was being rude.? Like Jeff, I felt that I had hurt his feelings.? It was awkward.? To me, the scene was visually and audibly overwhelming in that natural setting, and I am not a fan of billowing the smell of grilled meat in the wilderness - attracting wildlife to get in trouble with humans.? I realize that some hikers would think they had died and gone to heaven at such a sight, but it was not my "cup of tea" many miles from the nearest paved road.? So I chose not to partake and moved on.
I did a good job of keeping my opinions to myself with this well-intentioned trail angel, and I should have done the same now on this List.??It was that experience along with coolers of treats that I have seen dropped off near road-crossings, along with their ensuing garbage, that my poorly thought-out post was trying to distinguish.? There are many different forms of trail magic which can occur in towns, on roads, at trailheads, or deep in our beloved wilderness.? I suppose some hikers embrace it all, anywhere, while others prefer it kept out of the back-country, just as there are many different ways people enjoy our public lands.
In no way did I intend to disparage trail angels and trail magic.? I just did a terrible job of attempting to make this distinction.? Hence this long-winded email.
Respectfully,Mike


      From: Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com>
 To: pct-l at backcountry.net 
 Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 7:34 AM
 Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics
  
I have read posts that sound disparaging toward trail magic and those that
provide it.

I certainly respect that any person might not enjoy or partake in trail
magic or other help along the trail, and that they would never consider
taking any time or resources of their own to help a hiker that they didn't
know.

1.? If you have intended to pass by trail magic, and felt pressured to stop
and have a beer, and actually stopped and had that beer, that's on you.
2.? Did you walk into South Lake Tahoe, or Ashland, or Truckee?? Or maybe
you hitched, which meant someone helped you out, and that's just flat out
trail magic.
3.? Did you stop at the Saufley's, or Dinsmore's?? Do you know about Scout
and Frodo?? How about Coppertone?? If yes, and you disparage trail magic,
you might be a hypocrite.? These saints have given their hearts and
pocketbooks to help thousands of hikers.

So, fellow pct-l posters, give me a hand.? Just post a short experience
that you had with some kindness you received from a non-hiker.? Or, post
that you were annoyed by someone at a road crossing who was just helping
hikers to make himself or herself feel better about themselves.? Hmmm...

Cheers,

Chipmunk
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


   

From katyshaw at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 09:27:50 2018
From: katyshaw at gmail.com (Katy Shaw)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 07:27:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOtD+0KxD2yikf5cP0QPhqv0UQv5fbyaXb+U+QK=Parwbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOtD+0KxD2yikf5cP0QPhqv0UQv5fbyaXb+U+QK=Parwbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F8AEC36F-AA1E-424F-83E3-273A34CDDB75@gmail.com>

Here?s my favorite trail angel story from my 2017 PCT hike:

I was sitting alone at the at the Green Valley ranger station, dejectedly eating some oatmeal, when I looked up to see Terrie Anderson walking toward me. She had her arms outstretched and was walking towards me with an enormous smile. I knew who she was but I had convinced myself that I didn?t have time to stop at Casa De Luna.  She gave me a big hug and convinced me to come to her house for the day. She didn?t know it but I had cried myself to sleep the night before and her act of kindness was a turning point for me on my hike.  After some pancakes and taco salad and some fellowship with kindred spirits, I was back to the trail the next morning feeling refreshed and at a much better place mentally and emotionally.

Thanks Terrie :)

-Unicorn
Class of 2017

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2018, at 4:34 PM, Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have read posts that sound disparaging toward trail magic and those that
> provide it.
> 
> I certainly respect that any person might not enjoy or partake in trail
> magic or other help along the trail, and that they would never consider
> taking any time or resources of their own to help a hiker that they didn't
> know.
> 
> 1.  If you have intended to pass by trail magic, and felt pressured to stop
> and have a beer, and actually stopped and had that beer, that's on you.
> 2.  Did you walk into South Lake Tahoe, or Ashland, or Truckee?  Or maybe
> you hitched, which meant someone helped you out, and that's just flat out
> trail magic.
> 3.  Did you stop at the Saufley's, or Dinsmore's?  Do you know about Scout
> and Frodo?  How about Coppertone?  If yes, and you disparage trail magic,
> you might be a hypocrite.  These saints have given their hearts and
> pocketbooks to help thousands of hikers.
> 
> So, fellow pct-l posters, give me a hand.  Just post a short experience
> that you had with some kindness you received from a non-hiker.  Or, post
> that you were annoyed by someone at a road crossing who was just helping
> hikers to make himself or herself feel better about themselves.  Hmmm...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chipmunk
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon Mar 12 10:32:54 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:32:54 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOtD+0KxD2yikf5cP0QPhqv0UQv5fbyaXb+U+QK=Parwbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOtD+0KxD2yikf5cP0QPhqv0UQv5fbyaXb+U+QK=Parwbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <94baf322b05b4ea0ab0a24d2fda3314a@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I am deeply appreciative of the magic that has come my way over the years of sectioning the PCT. Piper's mom, who picked me up from the bus stop and drove me to the trailhead; an angel who posted his name and number at the trail head offering rides; the hiker way station outside of Burney Falls with sodas, chips and cookies; free coffee, a place to hang out with other hikers, and trail angel rides to and from the trail head at Trout Lake; the little church in Sierra City that lets hikers camp for free right in the middle of town; I could go on and on. In a time of divisive politics and tribalism, that someone would offer such generosity and kindness to a stranger can be more restorative to the soul than a long walk in a silent forest.

But even more than the rides and "goodies" trail angels provide, magic so often affords the opportunity to further connect with trail community and add to the experience. My first taste of trail magic was, in fact, with Chipmunk, who provide me a fine breakfast and comfortable place to sit and rest. We chatted some and emailed a bit back and forth after that. Years later I sectioned southbound White Pass to Timberline Lodge. While enjoying the breakfast buffet who did I see but Chipmunk. We greeted each other as long-lost friends, all because of a connection brought about by magic.

To me, trail magic adds to the richness of my hiking adventure. Thanks to all who have offered help and respite to me and other fellow hikers, and know that you are part of the wonderful memories I treasure of my life on trial.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Douglas Tow
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2018 4:34 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics

I have read posts that sound disparaging toward trail magic and those that provide it.

I certainly respect that any person might not enjoy or partake in trail magic or other help along the trail, and that they would never consider taking any time or resources of their own to help a hiker that they didn't know.

1.  If you have intended to pass by trail magic, and felt pressured to stop and have a beer, and actually stopped and had that beer, that's on you.
2.  Did you walk into South Lake Tahoe, or Ashland, or Truckee?  Or maybe you hitched, which meant someone helped you out, and that's just flat out trail magic.
3.  Did you stop at the Saufley's, or Dinsmore's?  Do you know about Scout and Frodo?  How about Coppertone?  If yes, and you disparage trail magic, you might be a hypocrite.  These saints have given their hearts and pocketbooks to help thousands of hikers.

So, fellow pct-l posters, give me a hand.  Just post a short experience that you had with some kindness you received from a non-hiker.  Or, post that you were annoyed by someone at a road crossing who was just helping hikers to make himself or herself feel better about themselves.  Hmmm...

Cheers,

Chipmunk
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From bumblefist at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 11:13:39 2018
From: bumblefist at gmail.com (Wayne)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 09:13:39 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] trail magic
Message-ID: <CALnQqN0WEXH5j0umyVKON2+Mg_P0NTS-mEcsiJC4dNmQuPECUg@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, trail magic, my favorite subject on this list.
Example of good trail magic:  The time we were spending the night in a
large campground in northern California and the campers next to us thought
I looked too skinny so they brought over all their left-over steak and
garlic bread from their dinner and handed it all right to me.
Example of bad trail magic:  The mess of water jugs and other trash seen
several times through southern California.

I can be included in the group of people who think there is too much Trail
Magic these days.  The hearts of Trail Angles are in the right place but
there are just too many people wanting to help out and all together it
creates a sense of entitlement amongst many hikers and has altered the
nature of what hiking the PCT is.
To all the current and aspiring Trail Angels out there, don't forget that
for most people the whole point of thru hiking a trail like the PCT is that
it is a challenge.  If it wasn't hard to do, there would be no real sense
of accomplishment.  If you keep making it easier by eliminating the need to
ever carry a pack heavy with water, or handing out treats so that hikers
never had too go too long without, then the challenge becomes less and
less.  Being given a can of soda or beer when you haven't had one in two
weeks is awesome.  Getting one every day, that's not much different than
being at home.

If you want to make yourself feel good by helping a PCT hiker have a better
experience, consider doing nothing at all and know that you may have helped
give that hiker a greater sense of achievement because they completed the
trail without so much help from others.


Gretzky

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 13:08:59 2018
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:08:59 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic
In-Reply-To: <Lsbs1x00901Jj4c01sbsfr@charter.net>
References: <Lsbs1x00901Jj4c01sbsfr@charter.net>
Message-ID: <9B1D85ED-A2F2-4275-A5A3-9CBB8A4A3657@gmail.com>

Dear Hikers,

As a section hiker from Spokane, I had never heard of Coppertone.  One day I was backpacking between the two paved roads leading down to Bucks Lake.  Someone walking by me mentioned getting root beer floats ? my favorite since childhood! ? and I assumed they meant they were going to head down to the resort.  OH MY GOSH!!!  I was stunned to come out at Bucks Summit into the shade, with chairs to sit down on, water and fruit, and great company while I waited for my root beer float.  Such a delight!  As a solo hiker in my 60s, it was a the biggest morale booster I?ve had in many a hiking day.  Thank you, Coppertone!

In the late 70s/early 80s I section hiked WA; then did OR between ?02-?09, often leading backpacks for local backpacking groups; and have been working on CA in the meantime.  The kindness of official and unofficial trail angels ? especially Are-We-There-Yet? ? but so many others, who gave me a safe ride while hitching, offered a slice of watermelon where the road crossed a major highway on a 105 degree day, and so much more, continues to fill my heart with gratitude.

Thanks to all, known and unknown, for how you have benefitted my life, and my PCT hikes.

?Susan from Spokane?Sunshine

> On Mar 11, 2018, at 9:35 PM, aslive at charter.net wrote:
> 
> I used to do trail magic for hikers coming out of Deep Creek Canyon.
> Root beer floats and hot dogs etc. The hikers always seemed to enjoy
> it and of course no one had to stop. I have only run into trail magic
> twice myself: once at Carson Pass and once at Sanonia Pass. I expected
> neither but was happy to run into it both times. This whole question
> seems a bit strange to me. If you want to take advantage of the
> generosity of strangers, do so and if you don't don't, simple. Why all
> the fuss?
> Shepherd
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jenniferlzim at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 15:02:11 2018
From: jenniferlzim at gmail.com (Jennifer Zimmerman)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:02:11 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic
In-Reply-To: <9B1D85ED-A2F2-4275-A5A3-9CBB8A4A3657@gmail.com>
References: <Lsbs1x00901Jj4c01sbsfr@charter.net>
 <9B1D85ED-A2F2-4275-A5A3-9CBB8A4A3657@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5z1v-9cFHtRRjpq4Y-x=EV+0sbrozeHy-RFF5uc4Zy1uKdvA@mail.gmail.com>

Shepard!

THANK YOU for your trail magic!  My husband and I hiked in 2013 and while
reading this thread I was just reminiscing about the day we met you.  It
was Mother's Day; best float I ever had.  Thanks so much for the wonderful
memory.

Glad to see the list come back to life!
Jen Z

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 1:08 PM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Hikers,
>
> As a section hiker from Spokane, I had never heard of Coppertone.  One day
> I was backpacking between the two paved roads leading down to Bucks Lake.
> Someone walking by me mentioned getting root beer floats ? my favorite
> since childhood! ? and I assumed they meant they were going to head down to
> the resort.  OH MY GOSH!!!  I was stunned to come out at Bucks Summit into
> the shade, with chairs to sit down on, water and fruit, and great company
> while I waited for my root beer float.  Such a delight!  As a solo hiker in
> my 60s, it was a the biggest morale booster I?ve had in many a hiking day.
> Thank you, Coppertone!
>
> In the late 70s/early 80s I section hiked WA; then did OR between ?02-?09,
> often leading backpacks for local backpacking groups; and have been working
> on CA in the meantime.  The kindness of official and unofficial trail
> angels ? especially Are-We-There-Yet? ? but so many others, who gave me a
> safe ride while hitching, offered a slice of watermelon where the road
> crossed a major highway on a 105 degree day, and so much more, continues to
> fill my heart with gratitude.
>
> Thanks to all, known and unknown, for how you have benefitted my life, and
> my PCT hikes.
>
> ?Susan from Spokane?Sunshine
>
> > On Mar 11, 2018, at 9:35 PM, aslive at charter.net wrote:
> >
> > I used to do trail magic for hikers coming out of Deep Creek Canyon.
> > Root beer floats and hot dogs etc. The hikers always seemed to enjoy
> > it and of course no one had to stop. I have only run into trail magic
> > twice myself: once at Carson Pass and once at Sanonia Pass. I expected
> > neither but was happy to run into it both times. This whole question
> > seems a bit strange to me. If you want to take advantage of the
> > generosity of strangers, do so and if you don't don't, simple. Why all
> > the fuss?
> > Shepherd
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From aslive at charter.net  Mon Mar 12 17:15:36 2018
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:15:36 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Still looking
Message-ID: <MAFc1x008358VEk01AFcst@charter.net>

I am still trying to replace my PCT Atlas Section 3 Northern
California. I must have lost mine last time I was out. I checked the
WEB Site and they now have the entire state of California in one
volume for like $37. That is too much weight, bulk and money. If
anyone has one that they no longer need, I will buy it from you and
pay any postage. Thanks! Shepherd.

From TBrokaw at montmush.com  Mon Mar 12 17:52:19 2018
From: TBrokaw at montmush.com (TBrokaw at montmush.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 15:52:19 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
In-Reply-To: <1938331068.11065562.1520787116558@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF821AA973.107B33E1-ON8825824E.007DA421-1520895139750@montmush.com>


I agree that the magic is overdone although with the best of intensions.
The magic that Ive appreciated most are the rides hitched to town.
Roadwalks are no fun. I recall reaching Hwy 2 in the late afternoon hoping
to avoid walking the asphalt for miles around the closure area. I reached
the highway just as the last day hikers were leaving the trailhead parking.
When a red truck (the last vehicle) sped by me, I was grumbling to myself
not looking forward to miles of asphalt. About ten minutes later, it
returned. For a moment I thought I was going to get mugged. But was a
family that had no room for me when they first passed. They had driven to
their camp to unload to
make room for me & driven back! I was very touched by this generosity. Ive
since talked to 2 other hikers that were helped by this family.
I could have survived without the ride but it touched my heart. I could
tell of several more examples.
I started the PCT thinking it was about the wilderness, but have come to
believe it is most about the people Ive shared it with.
Happy hiking to my pct family!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 11, 2018, at 9:53 AM, Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
> To those that feel like they might want to go and do the whole cooler
thing:
> Please, don't.  Untended coolers often times end up as trash heaps.  If
you must, don't unless you also have the time to go back and fetch the
remnants.  Even then, please, don't.  Too much of the trash will escape.
> If you must do the whole food / soda thing, make it attended.  That way,
no trash will escape.
> The down side of this is the time and cost involved.  If you're out to do
a real magic (unannounced, pop up for a brief time), it'll be for only one
day and cost will be minimal.  Many choose to make it multi day or longer -
time and cost goes up proportionally.
> Consider an alternate form of helping the hikers that doesn't involve
increasing their sense of entitlement or risking trash.  I've found being
on trail crew to be a wonderful way of giving back to or helping the
hikers.  Time is no different than someone who sticks around to tend a
magic, but the payoff helps so many more people.  On a soda magic, only
those that pass by when you happen to be there are benefited.  With trail
crew, EVERYONE does.  Sections I've maintained here in Washington have been
benefiting hikers since 2010, when I cleared them of brush.  I've given the
magic of a better trail to every hiker - day, section or thru, that passed
by that spot since August 2010.  Those 16 or so hours, in combination with
the other 4 people on that first crew, are a gift that has been given ever
since.  Talk about a return on time investment....Anyways, the cool part of
doing trail crew is that often times we're out during hiker season and get
to interact with the hikers as well.  Bringing some extra goodies in the
pack is a good way to dish some true magic.
> Ask anyone from 2016 who went through the mess of blow down south of
Crater Lake if they would have preferred a soda or more volunteers on the
crosscut saw teams.
> Anyways....for your consideration.
> Glad to see the PCT-L come back to life after so long being more or less
dormant.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From irontigerjb at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 10:15:34 2018
From: irontigerjb at gmail.com (JB)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 10:15:34 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic skeptics
In-Reply-To: <F8AEC36F-AA1E-424F-83E3-273A34CDDB75@gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOtD+0KxD2yikf5cP0QPhqv0UQv5fbyaXb+U+QK=Parwbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <F8AEC36F-AA1E-424F-83E3-273A34CDDB75@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <09EDBE1B-7D78-451A-983C-2990EA1FFB49@gmail.com>

Katy,

Thank you ! Your story is a lovely and encouraging way to start a Monday :)

IronTiger

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Katy Shaw <katyshaw at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Here?s my favorite trail angel story from my 2017 PCT hike:
> 
> I was sitting alone at the at the Green Valley ranger station, dejectedly eating some oatmeal, when I looked up to see Terrie Anderson walking toward me. She had her arms outstretched and was walking towards me with an enormous smile. I knew who she was but I had convinced myself that I didn?t have time to stop at Casa De Luna.  She gave me a big hug and convinced me to come to her house for the day. She didn?t know it but I had cried myself to sleep the night before and her act of kindness was a turning point for me on my hike.  After some pancakes and taco salad and some fellowship with kindred spirits, I was back to the trail the next morning feeling refreshed and at a much better place mentally and emotionally.
> 
> Thanks Terrie :)
> 
> -Unicorn
> Class of 2017
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 4:34 PM, Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I have read posts that sound disparaging toward trail magic and those that
>> provide it.
>> 
>> I certainly respect that any person might not enjoy or partake in trail
>> magic or other help along the trail, and that they would never consider
>> taking any time or resources of their own to help a hiker that they didn't
>> know.
>> 
>> 1.  If you have intended to pass by trail magic, and felt pressured to stop
>> and have a beer, and actually stopped and had that beer, that's on you.
>> 2.  Did you walk into South Lake Tahoe, or Ashland, or Truckee?  Or maybe
>> you hitched, which meant someone helped you out, and that's just flat out
>> trail magic.
>> 3.  Did you stop at the Saufley's, or Dinsmore's?  Do you know about Scout
>> and Frodo?  How about Coppertone?  If yes, and you disparage trail magic,
>> you might be a hypocrite.  These saints have given their hearts and
>> pocketbooks to help thousands of hikers.
>> 
>> So, fellow pct-l posters, give me a hand.  Just post a short experience
>> that you had with some kindness you received from a non-hiker.  Or, post
>> that you were annoyed by someone at a road crossing who was just helping
>> hikers to make himself or herself feel better about themselves.  Hmmm...
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Chipmunk
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From iceaxehikes at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 21:18:09 2018
From: iceaxehikes at gmail.com (Matthew Edwards)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 20:18:09 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
In-Reply-To: <CACOP0JwPJfTGUMg4WctWEdK4Qmr1mn=1WJ2KqU27jgPG5fY3xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0JwWdmfsvkXRmDg4Xd_8BLV4ZKYgW6ngc82iYqZVP67ZSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzaYRQaEU2Ad0UwikFBVBOfMwU_JC2c_MAhL66_GZDfCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JynwrKv_Vm1CRkaeN7Sfv38CHNgaQJQZep=VS1LwnMapA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyOtVCkop9oSQAsci+3kkz23LAV5nz9xxM3JM+gp+TA9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyNyqOxUqZPqKn1cG-XcSbNXW4Xve4HLQK0CqPKe7Wmhg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jyg9RNRAng5n+zQCRfi4v0sgOWO4P9Y=_1yoP6hdhA71g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyYW9T8YYgKOMoQOYj5-THtD44aVSQL1BEJDxxbRxo1WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JykSNMeD_Vm7UVRDW53Nm1DNwehDtP-eLM_y9Acx+TpfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyP1Cj4LMiHXe6WJCJs607Zihembim84n8fvC7QmNQtHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jwm4W6UuBvhZJvP8wrS-qX4maOmqxZQt1Eg2asO_ubG-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzswSk_zk9ZqdWNLYgou1tqPse_bfX5L2A4Qt7EyuUdkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jx2S-56z_aFwDOkMkzHWK=Ve5ZY3eJw6sP6mL-68dmwww@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzDD=E1r86XKJyrv6iEAc9UP09HKCra27jsdD97+5+uzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jx3CVAva1cU28b1L_t+DNLuoPXU7viOB9hsf--akDf=mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JywyH039PCfrMFXekYB+wwwCw+EmYX1j0G6fCTO6hKT2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jz6cUcYMt9+_k4oO4=sQusCUf0zWsmoxsXWN4Tdp89eFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzaOrD+s8cg3rbNGKpBMusk4hsUJmFmnEurCJy=dj0utw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jx2Vwf4zZaO8N9aguQOnr38wWqyEQz_928iq0OnmxxKfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JxEBgt5qUa6z4Uu4=-RBAQ+tsq13152bHt7U6tgk7CpOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jzf2nYAZFU2OVm9NxKAh8pUWnCkCfcfScYaOiOrLX4+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyKSR=CA=daBHQvPKLXRfzOh+VV9oF8OoCnWU04mdzEyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jxk=S-A+QvZB2RgFUo-1wqruy11WjzSMo8M97xrOzLUWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jy8YcUqxZU+9gUqFEUTF5TF6pYTaS4HdOOX1sMDZ3OLUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JxPtt70tytBa3f4SSe1mcvrMKDp0Dg8fRjSd0asOE2jDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JwSiJLJVWLWat1JB=GRJnLkmd76Oy5Yet2PAjck1cVr+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jxixsu8UNyLiuSmw2=9-szE=vMB4D3Tdr6s5NhEA2tc_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jwsqa7QVZRPeH6Dk5x_DZ7DM1e1N0eSu-9C5vGUj2E10g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JxNjj0WZqMTc0NE3g=g0Jk8uDcr_v9ZefMCNm-4vCgLzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyO_LV6Cs=PNA+PfNKhd_4m7JdfU59v9v9Uh1hus-F2OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JwPJfTGUMg4WctWEdK4Qmr1mn=1WJ2KqU27jgPG5fY3xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACOP0JwN6+pZ2yW0AERj6pyipyt2r8auTEorwYcgkMsNReQTBQ@mail.gmail.com>

I have a fun one.
Northern California just before Etna.
I had been walkimg with Indy that morning and we thought we were just about
to the road and could share a hitch to town for resupply.
Walking and talking, I recall Indy was one of the few hikers that wore
actual boots.
Through the beautiful dappled early sunlight we went until we turned a
corner in the trail..
There she was; dread locked hair, baby wrapped up in a sling across her
bare chest and nursing, some type of animal skin skirt, barefoot and
backlit by the rays of the sun... surrounded by 19 goats, 18 of which had
doggie type backpacks on.
I turned to Indy and said; "My God, we've come so far.. IT'S MOTHER NATURE!"
To which we all began to laugh.
Her husband appeared from the brush and we began introductions.
The little family would leave the Black Bear commune every summer and walk
with their goats until it got to cool at night and they would return home.
They made 6 miles a day.
They milked the goats and consumed the milk along with a goat on occasion
which they roasted when friends joined them on trail.
Indy and I were given a stainless pitcher of fresh warm goat milk to drink.
Only wished i'd had some rice crispies to share.
We were unacustomed to milk.. right out of a goat, but had a sip each and
thanked them.
Before we left them, we asked why one goat didn't have a backpack.
"That one likes to swim.. we'll eat him next".
That ranks up there as one of the more astonishing and magical encounters
of the PCT for me.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 21:23:55 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2018 21:23:55 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
In-Reply-To: <CACOP0JwN6+pZ2yW0AERj6pyipyt2r8auTEorwYcgkMsNReQTBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0JwWdmfsvkXRmDg4Xd_8BLV4ZKYgW6ngc82iYqZVP67ZSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzaYRQaEU2Ad0UwikFBVBOfMwU_JC2c_MAhL66_GZDfCg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JynwrKv_Vm1CRkaeN7Sfv38CHNgaQJQZep=VS1LwnMapA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyOtVCkop9oSQAsci+3kkz23LAV5nz9xxM3JM+gp+TA9A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyNyqOxUqZPqKn1cG-XcSbNXW4Xve4HLQK0CqPKe7Wmhg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jyg9RNRAng5n+zQCRfi4v0sgOWO4P9Y=_1yoP6hdhA71g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyYW9T8YYgKOMoQOYj5-THtD44aVSQL1BEJDxxbRxo1WQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JykSNMeD_Vm7UVRDW53Nm1DNwehDtP-eLM_y9Acx+TpfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyP1Cj4LMiHXe6WJCJs607Zihembim84n8fvC7QmNQtHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jwm4W6UuBvhZJvP8wrS-qX4maOmqxZQt1Eg2asO_ubG-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzswSk_zk9ZqdWNLYgou1tqPse_bfX5L2A4Qt7EyuUdkw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jx2S-56z_aFwDOkMkzHWK=Ve5ZY3eJw6sP6mL-68dmwww@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzDD=E1r86XKJyrv6iEAc9UP09HKCra27jsdD97+5+uzA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jx3CVAva1cU28b1L_t+DNLuoPXU7viOB9hsf--akDf=mA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JywyH039PCfrMFXekYB+wwwCw+EmYX1j0G6fCTO6hKT2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jz6cUcYMt9+_k4oO4=sQusCUf0zWsmoxsXWN4Tdp89eFw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JzaOrD+s8cg3rbNGKpBMusk4hsUJmFmnEurCJy=dj0utw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jx2Vwf4zZaO8N9aguQOnr38wWqyEQz_928iq0OnmxxKfA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JxEBgt5qUa6z4Uu4=-RBAQ+tsq13152bHt7U6tgk7CpOw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jzf2nYAZFU2OVm9NxKAh8pUWnCkCfcfScYaOiOrLX4+Zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyKSR=CA=daBHQvPKLXRfzOh+VV9oF8OoCnWU04mdzEyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jxk=S-A+QvZB2RgFUo-1wqruy11WjzSMo8M97xrOzLUWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jy8YcUqxZU+9gUqFEUTF5TF6pYTaS4HdOOX1sMDZ3OLUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JxPtt70tytBa3f4SSe1mcvrMKDp0Dg8fRjSd0asOE2jDw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JwSiJLJVWLWat1JB=GRJnLkmd76Oy5Yet2PAjck1cVr+w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jxixsu8UNyLiuSmw2=9-szE=vMB4D3Tdr6s5NhEA2tc_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0Jwsqa7QVZRPeH6Dk5x_DZ7DM1e1N0eSu-9C5vGUj2E10g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JxNjj0WZqMTc0NE3g=g0Jk8uDcr_v9ZefMCNm-4vCgLzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JyO_LV6Cs=PNA+PfNKhd_4m7JdfU59v9v9Uh1hus-F2OA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JwPJfTGUMg4WctWEdK4Qmr1mn=1WJ2KqU27jgPG5fY3xg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACOP0JwN6+pZ2yW0AERj6pyipyt2r8auTEorwYcgkMsNReQTBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE44EC7B-37F6-4F77-9075-EFFDABD73C3E@gmail.com>

Just wow ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 12, 2018, at 9:18 PM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a fun one.
> Northern California just before Etna.
> I had been walkimg with Indy that morning and we thought we were just about
> to the road and could share a hitch to town for resupply.
> Walking and talking, I recall Indy was one of the few hikers that wore
> actual boots.
> Through the beautiful dappled early sunlight we went until we turned a
> corner in the trail..
> There she was; dread locked hair, baby wrapped up in a sling across her
> bare chest and nursing, some type of animal skin skirt, barefoot and
> backlit by the rays of the sun... surrounded by 19 goats, 18 of which had
> doggie type backpacks on.
> I turned to Indy and said; "My God, we've come so far.. IT'S MOTHER NATURE!"
> To which we all began to laugh.
> Her husband appeared from the brush and we began introductions.
> The little family would leave the Black Bear commune every summer and walk
> with their goats until it got to cool at night and they would return home.
> They made 6 miles a day.
> They milked the goats and consumed the milk along with a goat on occasion
> which they roasted when friends joined them on trail.
> Indy and I were given a stainless pitcher of fresh warm goat milk to drink.
> Only wished i'd had some rice crispies to share.
> We were unacustomed to milk.. right out of a goat, but had a sip each and
> thanked them.
> Before we left them, we asked why one goat didn't have a backpack.
> "That one likes to swim.. we'll eat him next".
> That ranks up there as one of the more astonishing and magical encounters
> of the PCT for me.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Tue Mar 13 02:57:12 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 00:57:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] North from Seiad Valley
In-Reply-To: <ctb52tc2m9tnv9mfgsdibflw.1520550560237@email.android.com>
References: <ctb52tc2m9tnv9mfgsdibflw.1520550560237@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <da68bc92-f04d-f28c-9f24-1d4ebe9ba22f@marcusschwartz.com>

I've hiked in that section twice, once while doing the PCT northbound in 
2016, and once doing just Ashland to Seiad Valley southbound in 2014. 
On the former, I went through it in early-mid August, and on the latter, 
in mid-June.  In mid-June, it got fairly cold at night.  I used a 32 
degree sleeping bag with a liner, and it wasn't enough to be 
comfortable.  In early August, the mosquitoes in the lake part of Oregon 
got pretty bad.

Both times, it was a fairly dry stretch, but with Halfmile's app and the 
water report it was not dangerous.  There was one point (mentioned 
later) where a user's comment in Guthook's app pointed out an 
otherwise-undocumented water source during a dry stretch where I would 
have gotten quite thirsty.

Of the two start dates I tried, I'd go with early August, since the 
nights were warmer, plus the water report would be more up-to-date due 
to it being Nobo PCT season in the area.  I'm not sure how the 
mosquitoes vary over the course of the year.  I can't speak to any other 
times of year, or any years other than the ones I hiked of course.

As for where to go from Seiad Valley, there are a few choices I can 
think of:

1. Crater Lake.  A scenic end, but sooner than you were looking for 
(somewhere around 180 miles).  Transportation would be very easy, as it 
is a major tourist destination.  When I walked across a crowded parking 
lot, people stopped me 3 times to ask if I was a real PCT hiker and if I 
needed anything.

2. Shelter Cove Resort.  At the short end of your request (about 250 
miles).  It's a moderately busy lakeside cabin rental area, with a 
general store.  I assume access is good, as there were plenty of 
drive-in tourists when I was there.  I remember long picnic tables full 
of PCT hikers feasting on Camp Store food when I was there.  I 
personally enjoyed a 1400 calorie bag of Chili Cheese Fritos, a fresh(?) 
tuna salad sandwich, an orange juice, a Strawberry Fanta, a Mello Yello, 
and a Coors Banquet.  Mmmmh hmmmm.

3. Elk Lake Resort is right in the middle (about 300 miles), but I 
haven't been there.

4. The Highway 242 crossing (about 330 miles from Seiad) is accessible 
if you can arrange a ride, but did not look busy when I passed through. 
Going this far would let you see Oregon's volcanic terrain in full 
effect (and would also make you feel its full effect on your feet).

5. Highway 20 at Santiam Pass would be at the upper end of your range 
(just under 350 miles).  It's a fairly busy, fast road, and there's a 
trailhead that sees some use on the north side of the road, with a 
parking lot.  Transportation is possible, hitchhiking is probably 
unreliable.

A few disconnected notes about this section:

- Whatever distance you do choose, I'd very highly recommend taking the 
Rim Trail Alternate at Crater Lake instead of the official PCT.  The 
alternate is very scenic, and the official route is not.  The alternate 
would likely be the official route if it could accommodate horses.  If 
you're not a horse, I say take the Rim Trail.

- I understand there are at least a couple fires affecting this section, 
though as I'm not hiking this year I haven't read much about them.  The 
High Cascades Complex fire affects 1827.4 to 1839.2, and will likely 
remain in effect "through a significant part of the 2018 season".  This 
would support a later start date.

- The section between Elk Lake and Highway 242 is currently closed due 
to fire.  It's unclear when it will open, but the PCTA note I read 
seemed to suggest that it might be open a few weeks after snow melt.

- There is a dry spot from 1982 to about 1999, according to most sources 
(including the PCT Water Report and most apps).  But, there is a pond 
uphill a couple hundred feet around mile 1990, which can be a lifesaver. 
  I think it's called Washington Pond.  It's much easier to find if 
you're using a GPS app that displays maps, like Guthook or OSMAnd, so 
you can walk towards the blue area.  The water is not pretty but it's 
the only choice in the area.

- A lot of people consider the Three Sisters section (around 1965 or so) 
to be one of Oregon's high points.  I didn't, but maybe that's because I 
kept thinking the South Sister looked like a pile of ice cream with 
brownie crumble and marshmallow sauce on top.

- As an alternative, you might want to consider going southbound, so the 
brutal, dry climb at the beginning coming out of Seiad becomes an 
exhilarating scenic descent down to a hike-concluding Seiad milkshake.

- Expect the Central Oregon miles to go faster than the miles near Seiad 
Valley and Ashland.  It's much flatter.

- All in all, I thought it was one of the more drab sections of the PCT, 
though collecting water at WA1661.9 (Lookout Spring) during sunset was 
high point for me: 
https://pct.marcusschwartz.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/dsc03029.jpg

- CS1974 was another highlight of the section for me.  In the middle of 
a dry, inhospitable lava rock section, there's a small creek and grove 
of wiggle-trunked miniature trees.  It has an alien feel, like finding 
an oasis on Mars.

- And, of course, Crater Lake is extraordinary, but you can also just 
drive right up to the rim.

Good luck!

  -=Town Food

On 03/08/2018 03:09 PM, Rob at wildvagabond () wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Sages of The PCT.I'm hiking sections and have now hiked from
> Kennedy Meadows (South) to Seiad Valley. Next up is Seiad to Ashland
> or thereabouts.  I'm 68, so huge miles are not going to happen. 
> Questions: 1.  What do you suggest as good stopping points about 250
> to 350 miles North of Seiad?  Good in terms of ease of access,
> ability to get back to Seiad, services. 2. Your guess as a reasonable
> start date, so I can start planning? 3.  What are the water and other
> challenges to anticipate?   I know there are elevation discrepancies,
> resulting in snow vs heat and other issues.  What is the best way to
> manage these issues?  That is, back to the start date and other
> suggestions. Thanks all. I am on the False Bravado, yet continue to
> find the most accurate and reasonable information on sites like this
> one.  Another example is information about the Grand Canyon - it's
> better on the yahoo groupo than the FB.  I suppose it's because
> "true" (dedicated) hikers find it more useful and therefore hang out
> here? Thanks for the updated town guide - fabulous. And for the
> suggestions about other sections I've hiked. Rob - Wild Vagabond 
> Wherever you go there you are!  Rob of the WV:
> http://wildernessvagabond.com 
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Tue Mar 13 03:12:30 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 01:12:30 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <b862ad6d-2208-077b-7ff3-aeeb81a7f4f1@rodmiller.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
 <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>
 <b862ad6d-2208-077b-7ff3-aeeb81a7f4f1@rodmiller.com>
Message-ID: <2dd20d22-bf78-6d3a-93ed-19c1ea7b1593@marcusschwartz.com>

I've always heard 15 pints per ~100g/4oz canister is typical.  I never 
quite tested that out myself, because running out anywhere other than 
the last moment before a resupply would mean uncooked food until I got 
into town.  So I'd buy a new canister when my current one felt "low" in 
town.  It might be worth trying to train yourself to feel how full a 
canister is.  Either by weight, or by swishing it around and 
listening/feeling.

I preferred the MSR canisters, since they were wider and stood better, 
but more often than not there's only one brand at a resupply point. 
It's not worth illegally shipping canisters in resupply boxes just for 
the relatively minor differences between brands.

  -=Town Food

On 03/10/2018 11:35 AM, Rod Miller wrote:
> Excellent question. Way back I started scratching a
> hash mark on the side of the canister, one hash mark
> per cup boiled. Most of this boiling was done at high
> (over 6000 feet) elevations. There was quite a difference
> in performance among the various brands. I could dig up
> some of the data, however, the bottom line is that the
> Gas One brand consistently gave more that 30 cup-boils
> (one cup boiled) with my Jet Boil titanium stove.
> Gas One took some sleuthing to find a consistent source,
> which was for me Big 5 Sporting Goods.
> 

From jbruins at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 04:25:43 2018
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 02:25:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <2dd20d22-bf78-6d3a-93ed-19c1ea7b1593@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
 <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>
 <b862ad6d-2208-077b-7ff3-aeeb81a7f4f1@rodmiller.com>
 <2dd20d22-bf78-6d3a-93ed-19c1ea7b1593@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <8E6A264B-6D54-489B-8BCA-76F84B40473B@gmail.com>

Note that is not illegal to ship fuel canisters, you just have to follow a few extra steps.

The key is to label the package ORM-D, which forces USPS to use ground delivery. Heck, you can even include bear spray. Full details on their website or ask the clerk at your local office.

Armstrong

PS I did the PCT on 6 100g canisters with plenty to spare. (I left many partials in bear boxes.) My jet boil does more like 20 boils (1.5-2c) per canister. Tick marks are helpful, but even better is to use a scale to help learn the feel of a given mass of fuel.

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> 
> I've always heard 15 pints per ~100g/4oz canister is typical.  I never quite tested that out myself, because running out anywhere other than the last moment before a resupply would mean uncooked food until I got into town.  So I'd buy a new canister when my current one felt "low" in town.  It might be worth trying to train yourself to feel how full a canister is.  Either by weight, or by swishing it around and listening/feeling.
> 
> I preferred the MSR canisters, since they were wider and stood better, but more often than not there's only one brand at a resupply point. It's not worth illegally shipping canisters in resupply boxes just for the relatively minor differences between brands.
> 
> -=Town Food
> 
>> On 03/10/2018 11:35 AM, Rod Miller wrote:
>> Excellent question. Way back I started scratching a
>> hash mark on the side of the canister, one hash mark
>> per cup boiled. Most of this boiling was done at high
>> (over 6000 feet) elevations. There was quite a difference
>> in performance among the various brands. I could dig up
>> some of the data, however, the bottom line is that the
>> Gas One brand consistently gave more that 30 cup-boils
>> (one cup boiled) with my Jet Boil titanium stove.
>> Gas One took some sleuthing to find a consistent source,
>> which was for me Big 5 Sporting Goods.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 11:59:10 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 16:59:10 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] 2017 PCT Class Video status?
Message-ID: <CALu=H=hMCcsTWSEVo0dq3owO_nza02j80pcB47=Rg290azi6Jg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know the status of the PCT Class of 2017 video? Does anyone
know who took on the resonsibility to compile the video?

Thank you,

Paint

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 13:47:22 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 11:47:22 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM0MTA2bUsL4oRaAcBTnfaxOMuK3EUiuK9Ri2pq_1C=3gw@mail.gmail.com>

Memorable Trail Magic received:
My wife and I just finished dropping down Fuller Ridge and were trying to
stay out of the sun near the drinking fountain.  It was mid-afternoon and
110 in the shade.  One of the works up Snow Creek drove up and gave us
popcycles. Oh, I longed for some thru-hikers to walk up, so we could be
sitting there, on a blazingly hot day, in the middle of nowhere, eating
popcycles.

The Best Trail Magic we gave:
My family and I drove out to Whitewater to surprise Catwater, as she came
south on her second PCT thru-hike.  Sitting and talking, with her and Puff
Puff we discovered two things
1) she hated coming down Fuller Ridge on her first thru-hike and she was
not looking forward to climbing it the next day.
2) The next day was her birthday and in her mind it was going to be a
terrible birthday.
Thinking about it, after we returned home we got this great idea.  A quick
drive to the store for a styrofoam cooler, ice, a six-pack of assorted
beers, bottles of water, fruit, and sandwiches.  The kids colored the
cooler, wishing Catwater Happy Birthday.
The next morning my wife and I drove to Idyllwild, then on Black Mountain
Road to the PCT, near the top of Fuller Ridge.  We left the cooler where
she would see it and headed home, knowing she would get there in the late
afternoon.
The next day we returned to pick up the cooler and found it empty, with a
note.  Catwater and Puff Puff saw the cooler.  Thinking it was another
empty cooler of trail magic Puff Puff went over to investigate.  Reading
the writing on the outside, she called to Catwater, "It's for you".
Catwater became very emotional, and after looking inside decided that they
did not have to walk to the next water source.  They were camping right
there and have a great Birthday surprise.

If you can get emotional just writing the story, knowing the joy you have
given another person, that is Trail Magic.

One last comment on Trail Magic, it almost always is given to the NoBo.
The SoBo see very very little of it.  They just come across the empties.
It is kinda sad.

The Ravens
PCT 96, 15
CDT 17

From backpack45 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 13 15:07:34 2018
From: backpack45 at yahoo.com (Susan Alcorn)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 20:07:34 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
References: <282735534.725885.1520971654827.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <282735534.725885.1520971654827@mail.yahoo.com>

I never expected trail magic, but I loved it every time I experienced it and often felt that I couldn't have completed the PCT without it because it provided such a lift (both physically and mentally) to be the recipient of a stranger's gift. Several tales I could tell, but one for today: Ralph and I had hitched about five miles into a town, but couldn't find a ride back to the trail so Ralph went into a laundromat and offered a $20 bill to anyone who would take us back to the trail. A woman and her two teenage daughters, who looked like typical vacationers and were pretty unfamiliar with backpackers, offered to drive us. We chatted as they drove us back and I guess they decided that hiker trash wasn't so bad, because when we arrived back at the trailhead and offered the woman the money, she declined the money and wished us luck.? ?Susan "Backpack 45" Alcorn? ?

From laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 13 20:14:47 2018
From: laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com (Laurie Hallum)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 01:14:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <8E6A264B-6D54-489B-8BCA-76F84B40473B@gmail.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
 <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>
 <b862ad6d-2208-077b-7ff3-aeeb81a7f4f1@rodmiller.com>
 <2dd20d22-bf78-6d3a-93ed-19c1ea7b1593@marcusschwartz.com>
 <8E6A264B-6D54-489B-8BCA-76F84B40473B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1063017161.39576.1520990087511@mail.yahoo.com>

 The brand new Backpacker Gear Guide magazine has a JetBoil JetGauge. ?The write up says it can measure remaining fuel accurately in a variety of canisters, weighs 3 ounces, and costs $15. ?<jetboil.com> ?Does anyone have experience with this device?Lady Pegasus?    On Tuesday, March 13, 2018, 2:26:12 AM PDT, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 Note that is not illegal to ship fuel canisters, you just have to follow a few extra steps.

The key is to label the package ORM-D, which forces USPS to use ground delivery. Heck, you can even include bear spray. Full details on their website or ask the clerk at your local office.

Armstrong

PS I did the PCT on 6 100g canisters with plenty to spare. (I left many partials in bear boxes.) My jet boil does more like 20 boils (1.5-2c) per canister. Tick marks are helpful, but even better is to use a scale to help learn the feel of a given mass of fuel.

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> 
> I've always heard 15 pints per ~100g/4oz canister is typical.? I never quite tested that out myself, because running out anywhere other than the last moment before a resupply would mean uncooked food until I got into town.? So I'd buy a new canister when my current one felt "low" in town.? It might be worth trying to train yourself to feel how full a canister is.? Either by weight, or by swishing it around and listening/feeling.
> 
> I preferred the MSR canisters, since they were wider and stood better, but more often than not there's only one brand at a resupply point. It's not worth illegally shipping canisters in resupply boxes just for the relatively minor differences between brands.
> 
> -=Town Food
> 
>> On 03/10/2018 11:35 AM, Rod Miller wrote:
>> Excellent question. Way back I started scratching a
>> hash mark on the side of the canister, one hash mark
>> per cup boiled. Most of this boiling was done at high
>> (over 6000 feet) elevations. There was quite a difference
>> in performance among the various brands. I could dig up
>> some of the data, however, the bottom line is that the
>> Gas One brand consistently gave more that 30 cup-boils
>> (one cup boiled) with my Jet Boil titanium stove.
>> Gas One took some sleuthing to find a consistent source,
>> which was for me Big 5 Sporting Goods.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
  

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Tue Mar 13 21:39:48 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:39:48 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] question re canisters
In-Reply-To: <1063017161.39576.1520990087511@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <c455f7b5-62d9-ca8b-a686-59521cd2bfb1@emeraldlake.com>
 <201803091844.55202.virgil@baloney.com>
 <505470F4-A390-4363-BE9B-C1AA256EC229@gmail.com>
 <000401d3b894$65d45080$317cf180$@verizon.net>
 <b862ad6d-2208-077b-7ff3-aeeb81a7f4f1@rodmiller.com>
 <2dd20d22-bf78-6d3a-93ed-19c1ea7b1593@marcusschwartz.com>
 <8E6A264B-6D54-489B-8BCA-76F84B40473B@gmail.com>
 <1063017161.39576.1520990087511@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <465186a4-46a1-fc65-e172-badf5046079b@marcusschwartz.com>

I haven't used it, but the way I look at it, an entire canister is 4oz. 
So if the JetGauge weighs 3oz, you'd do better to just carry a spare 
canister.

(I say "better" because canisters, unlike the JetGauge, get lighter over 
time as you use them.  So on average a canister would weigh less than 3oz).

  -=Marcus

On 03/13/2018 06:14 PM, Laurie Hallum wrote:
>   The brand new Backpacker Gear Guide magazine has a JetBoil JetGauge. ?The write up says it can measure remaining fuel accurately in a variety of canisters, weighs 3 ounces, and costs $15. ?<jetboil.com> ?Does anyone have experience with this device?Lady Pegasus?    On Tuesday, March 13, 2018, 2:26:12 AM PDT, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>   Note that is not illegal to ship fuel canisters, you just have to follow a few extra steps.
> 
> The key is to label the package ORM-D, which forces USPS to use ground delivery. Heck, you can even include bear spray. Full details on their website or ask the clerk at your local office.
> 
> Armstrong
> 
> PS I did the PCT on 6 100g canisters with plenty to spare. (I left many partials in bear boxes.) My jet boil does more like 20 boils (1.5-2c) per canister. Tick marks are helpful, but even better is to use a scale to help learn the feel of a given mass of fuel.
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've always heard 15 pints per ~100g/4oz canister is typical.? I never quite tested that out myself, because running out anywhere other than the last moment before a resupply would mean uncooked food until I got into town.? So I'd buy a new canister when my current one felt "low" in town.? It might be worth trying to train yourself to feel how full a canister is.? Either by weight, or by swishing it around and listening/feeling.
>>
>> I preferred the MSR canisters, since they were wider and stood better, but more often than not there's only one brand at a resupply point. It's not worth illegally shipping canisters in resupply boxes just for the relatively minor differences between brands.
>>
>> -=Town Food
>>
>>> On 03/10/2018 11:35 AM, Rod Miller wrote:
>>> Excellent question. Way back I started scratching a
>>> hash mark on the side of the canister, one hash mark
>>> per cup boiled. Most of this boiling was done at high
>>> (over 6000 feet) elevations. There was quite a difference
>>> in performance among the various brands. I could dig up
>>> some of the data, however, the bottom line is that the
>>> Gas One brand consistently gave more that 30 cup-boils
>>> (one cup boiled) with my Jet Boil titanium stove.
>>> Gas One took some sleuthing to find a consistent source,
>>> which was for me Big 5 Sporting Goods.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>    
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 07:55:32 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 07:55:32 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM0MTA2bUsL4oRaAcBTnfaxOMuK3EUiuK9Ri2pq_1C=3gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM0MTA2bUsL4oRaAcBTnfaxOMuK3EUiuK9Ri2pq_1C=3gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C1BB97B-B6CA-49E8-B63E-391FB481CD85@gmail.com>

Thanks to everyone for sharing these heartwarming stories! Trail Angels are a blessing, giving is fun, receiving is fun, and the whole deal makes this world a better place!
:)
GoGo

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 13, 2018, at 1:47 PM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Memorable Trail Magic received:
> My wife and I just finished dropping down Fuller Ridge and were trying to
> stay out of the sun near the drinking fountain.  It was mid-afternoon and
> 110 in the shade.  One of the works up Snow Creek drove up and gave us
> popcycles. Oh, I longed for some thru-hikers to walk up, so we could be
> sitting there, on a blazingly hot day, in the middle of nowhere, eating
> popcycles.
> 
> The Best Trail Magic we gave:
> My family and I drove out to Whitewater to surprise Catwater, as she came
> south on her second PCT thru-hike.  Sitting and talking, with her and Puff
> Puff we discovered two things
> 1) she hated coming down Fuller Ridge on her first thru-hike and she was
> not looking forward to climbing it the next day.
> 2) The next day was her birthday and in her mind it was going to be a
> terrible birthday.
> Thinking about it, after we returned home we got this great idea.  A quick
> drive to the store for a styrofoam cooler, ice, a six-pack of assorted
> beers, bottles of water, fruit, and sandwiches.  The kids colored the
> cooler, wishing Catwater Happy Birthday.
> The next morning my wife and I drove to Idyllwild, then on Black Mountain
> Road to the PCT, near the top of Fuller Ridge.  We left the cooler where
> she would see it and headed home, knowing she would get there in the late
> afternoon.
> The next day we returned to pick up the cooler and found it empty, with a
> note.  Catwater and Puff Puff saw the cooler.  Thinking it was another
> empty cooler of trail magic Puff Puff went over to investigate.  Reading
> the writing on the outside, she called to Catwater, "It's for you".
> Catwater became very emotional, and after looking inside decided that they
> did not have to walk to the next water source.  They were camping right
> there and have a great Birthday surprise.
> 
> If you can get emotional just writing the story, knowing the joy you have
> given another person, that is Trail Magic.
> 
> One last comment on Trail Magic, it almost always is given to the NoBo.
> The SoBo see very very little of it.  They just come across the empties.
> It is kinda sad.
> 
> The Ravens
> PCT 96, 15
> CDT 17
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From mike.sm64 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 12:59:35 2018
From: mike.sm64 at gmail.com (Mike Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2018 10:59:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail magic
Message-ID: <CAEb7wVLfeQTRWKbqEsifaajb0+yOy97JpVKDEmkzgOR1RQyiKA@mail.gmail.com>

My two favorites:
   Hiking north out of Idyllwild, I realized I had left a water bottle back
in town and began to fret about my water carrying capacity for dry sections
coming up. About the time my mind had come to the end of its ideas, I
rounded a corner and there was a water bottle in a notch on a rock. Problem
solved.
   Hiking north of Yosemite, I began to run out of gas at the end of each
day and realized I needed to increase my calorie count and protein
consumption. Shortly before reaching Sonora Pass, I passed a couple who
asked how my trip was going. I told them all was fine except for an
apparent protein deficiency. With that news, they reached into their packs
and handed over a bunch of chocolate coated protein bars that did not suit
their taste and were mine for the taking.
 Happy trails to all, --Lightfoot (PCT CA, 2003)

From pdstevenson333 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 07:49:28 2018
From: pdstevenson333 at gmail.com (Peter Stevenson)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 06:49:28 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
In-Reply-To: <1620bb024af-c8c-3ee3@webjas-vad095.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
 <1620bb024af-c8c-3ee3@webjas-vad095.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <CADJw-XoUvc=sJwZCsopfcLMFSQDNi-+R+C2PaDEPwuynS0tRKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Nothing set yet but probably Callahans to Crater Lake in late August or
early September.
Colorado Pete

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net> wrote:

>
>  In April we are going to hike Tehachapi to Walker Pass first of April.
> Should be good weather, no Herd and a nice way to stretch out the legs.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> To: Pct-L <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 1:44 pm
> Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
>
> Tramily -
> Who all is getting out on the trail this year? Anyone planning to do a
> section or the whole thing?
> GoGo
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 11:56:48 2018
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 16:56:48 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
In-Reply-To: <CADJw-XoUvc=sJwZCsopfcLMFSQDNi-+R+C2PaDEPwuynS0tRKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CD9314AA-C054-4303-9F35-27C61D49F3EE@gmail.com>
 <1620bb024af-c8c-3ee3@webjas-vad095.srv.aolmail.net>
 <CADJw-XoUvc=sJwZCsopfcLMFSQDNi-+R+C2PaDEPwuynS0tRKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3hs3j_fXCQ_sya8oJ3BUwLFSdcRdk-7RWW9EuCU-_sYbw@mail.gmail.com>

Tahoe to Ashland, starting late July
Drew

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 6:49 AM Peter Stevenson <pdstevenson333 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nothing set yet but probably Callahans to Crater Lake in late August or
> early September.
> Colorado Pete
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:55 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >  In April we are going to hike Tehachapi to Walker Pass first of April.
> > Should be good weather, no Herd and a nice way to stretch out the legs.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> > To: Pct-L <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Wed, Mar 7, 2018 1:44 pm
> > Subject: [pct-l] Trail this year?
> >
> > Tramily -
> > Who all is getting out on the trail this year? Anyone planning to do a
> > section or the whole thing?
> > GoGo
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
-- 
Walking to the light <http://drewsmithblog.com>

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Fri Mar 16 18:46:49 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 16:46:49 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>

This is interesting

http://ggweather.com/seasonal_rain.htm

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 19:35:14 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 18:35:14 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2bc1170a-5937-b1ec-cc92-c817a5b5d74f@gmail.com>

I bit - some interpretation of "why" it's interesting...? Not trying to 
be snarky, just interested in what you see...

Jeff


On 3/16/2018 5:46 PM, Brick Robbins wrote:
> This is interesting
>
> http://ggweather.com/seasonal_rain.htm
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Fri Mar 16 22:02:32 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 20:02:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
In-Reply-To: <2bc1170a-5937-b1ec-cc92-c817a5b5d74f@gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2bc1170a-5937-b1ec-cc92-c817a5b5d74f@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzmZRvibqkDtv34eti_kSbkkTj6ZixB5qSTyV+OH-VVz6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I bit - some interpretation of "why" it's interesting...  Not trying to be
> snarky, just interested in what you see...

Norcal is running ~50-70% of normal

SoCal is running ~30% of normal

Early start would be a good thing this year, to avoid (as much as
possible) water problems in the south. Early entry into the Sierra
will be possible too.

For people thinking that they are "locked in" to a start date due to
their permit, remember that PCTA permits are NOT required to hike the
trail. If you want to start early, you can do so legally.

The only place were you need a wilderness permit south of the Sierra
is in the San Jacinto area. Due to the trail closure in that area
https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/pct-closed-on-mt-san-jacinto/
It is easy and convenient to get a "walk up" wilderness permit at the
ranger station in Idyllwild since you are going to road walk there
anyway, to rejoin the trail.

By the time you get to where you need permits (in SEKI and north) your
PCTA permit should be within its validity dates.

Technically you also need a dispersed camping permit in Cleveland NF
if you are not going to stay in campgrounds, but I have never seen
that enforced, and few people even know about the very old
requirement. In many years of dispersed camping in CNF, I have never
been asked for one. If you really want, you can get the permit at the
Cleveland NF ranger station in Alpine (if the person at the desk even
knows what you are talking about when you ask for it)

Here is the 1992 forest order mandating this permit. It took me a lot
of effort to get this scan.
http://www.brickrobbins.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/DescansoRD.pdf

Oh, by the way, if you are going to get "all legal" on me, it is also
illegal to camp outside of campgrounds in the Laguna Mtn Recreation
Area. So technically it is illegal to camp along the PCT  from Burnt
Ranchero (mile 41) to Pioneer mail (mile 53)
http://lmva.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Lagunajpeg.jpg

HYOH LNT Keep Safe

From jbruins at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 23:35:48 2018
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2018 21:35:48 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzmZRvibqkDtv34eti_kSbkkTj6ZixB5qSTyV+OH-VVz6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2bc1170a-5937-b1ec-cc92-c817a5b5d74f@gmail.com>
 <CALV1NzmZRvibqkDtv34eti_kSbkkTj6ZixB5qSTyV+OH-VVz6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83FA7456-7E9C-422D-9483-188E67ED8D57@gmail.com>

Note that starting in 2017, CNF limits wilderness permits each season from March 1st to May 15 for the section between the border and Mt Laguna to 5 persons per day (not counting PCT long distance permits). They are specifically trying to limit the impact of PCT hikers in this area.

Details here:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/home/?cid=FSEPRD488307

They do, however, point out that if you could do the 20 miles to Lake Morena followed by 22 miles to Mount Laguna, you could avoid this permit by staying in designated campgrounds and/or the motel. I don?t believe Burnt Rancheria is open until 2018?04-13, however.

Happy hiking,
Armstrong

>> On Mar 16, 2018, at 8:02 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I bit - some interpretation of "why" it's interesting...  Not trying to be
>> snarky, just interested in what you see...
> 
> Norcal is running ~50-70% of normal
> 
> SoCal is running ~30% of normal
> 
> Early start would be a good thing this year, to avoid (as much as
> possible) water problems in the south. Early entry into the Sierra
> will be possible too.
> 
> For people thinking that they are "locked in" to a start date due to
> their permit, remember that PCTA permits are NOT required to hike the
> trail. If you want to start early, you can do so legally.
> 
> The only place were you need a wilderness permit south of the Sierra
> is in the San Jacinto area. Due to the trail closure in that area
> https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/pct-closed-on-mt-san-jacinto/
> It is easy and convenient to get a "walk up" wilderness permit at the
> ranger station in Idyllwild since you are going to road walk there
> anyway, to rejoin the trail.
> 
> By the time you get to where you need permits (in SEKI and north) your
> PCTA permit should be within its validity dates.
> 
> Technically you also need a dispersed camping permit in Cleveland NF
> if you are not going to stay in campgrounds, but I have never seen
> that enforced, and few people even know about the very old
> requirement. In many years of dispersed camping in CNF, I have never
> been asked for one. If you really want, you can get the permit at the
> Cleveland NF ranger station in Alpine (if the person at the desk even
> knows what you are talking about when you ask for it)
> 
> Here is the 1992 forest order mandating this permit. It took me a lot
> of effort to get this scan.
> http://www.brickrobbins.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/DescansoRD.pdf
> 
> Oh, by the way, if you are going to get "all legal" on me, it is also
> illegal to camp outside of campgrounds in the Laguna Mtn Recreation
> Area. So technically it is illegal to camp along the PCT  from Burnt
> Ranchero (mile 41) to Pioneer mail (mile 53)
> http://lmva.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Lagunajpeg.jpg
> 
> HYOH LNT Keep Safe
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Mar 17 04:36:28 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 02:36:28 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
In-Reply-To: <83FA7456-7E9C-422D-9483-188E67ED8D57@gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <2bc1170a-5937-b1ec-cc92-c817a5b5d74f@gmail.com>
 <CALV1NzmZRvibqkDtv34eti_kSbkkTj6ZixB5qSTyV+OH-VVz6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <83FA7456-7E9C-422D-9483-188E67ED8D57@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=du_qpjLuWN=nzJ59t4fuuE=1OBZQVSbcgkr3qbYRgbg@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't know that. Thank you.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 9:35 PM, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:
> Note that starting in 2017, CNF limits wilderness permits each season from March 1st to May 15 for the section between the border and Mt Laguna to 5 persons per day (not counting PCT long distance permits). They are specifically trying to limit the impact of PCT hikers in this area.
>
> Details here:
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/home/?cid=FSEPRD488307
>
> They do, however, point out that if you could do the 20 miles to Lake Morena followed by 22 miles to Mount Laguna, you could avoid this permit by staying in designated campgrounds and/or the motel. I don?t believe Burnt Rancheria is open until 2018?04-13, however.
>
> Happy hiking,
> Armstrong
>
>>> On Mar 16, 2018, at 8:02 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 5:35 PM, Jeffrey Olson <jjolson58 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I bit - some interpretation of "why" it's interesting...  Not trying to be
>>> snarky, just interested in what you see...
>>
>> Norcal is running ~50-70% of normal
>>
>> SoCal is running ~30% of normal
>>
>> Early start would be a good thing this year, to avoid (as much as
>> possible) water problems in the south. Early entry into the Sierra
>> will be possible too.
>>
>> For people thinking that they are "locked in" to a start date due to
>> their permit, remember that PCTA permits are NOT required to hike the
>> trail. If you want to start early, you can do so legally.
>>
>> The only place were you need a wilderness permit south of the Sierra
>> is in the San Jacinto area. Due to the trail closure in that area
>> https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/pct-closed-on-mt-san-jacinto/
>> It is easy and convenient to get a "walk up" wilderness permit at the
>> ranger station in Idyllwild since you are going to road walk there
>> anyway, to rejoin the trail.
>>
>> By the time you get to where you need permits (in SEKI and north) your
>> PCTA permit should be within its validity dates.
>>
>> Technically you also need a dispersed camping permit in Cleveland NF
>> if you are not going to stay in campgrounds, but I have never seen
>> that enforced, and few people even know about the very old
>> requirement. In many years of dispersed camping in CNF, I have never
>> been asked for one. If you really want, you can get the permit at the
>> Cleveland NF ranger station in Alpine (if the person at the desk even
>> knows what you are talking about when you ask for it)
>>
>> Here is the 1992 forest order mandating this permit. It took me a lot
>> of effort to get this scan.
>> http://www.brickrobbins.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/DescansoRD.pdf
>>
>> Oh, by the way, if you are going to get "all legal" on me, it is also
>> illegal to camp outside of campgrounds in the Laguna Mtn Recreation
>> Area. So technically it is illegal to camp along the PCT  from Burnt
>> Ranchero (mile 41) to Pioneer mail (mile 53)
>> http://lmva.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Lagunajpeg.jpg
>>
>> HYOH LNT Keep Safe
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From virgil at baloney.com  Sat Mar 17 14:15:21 2018
From: virgil at baloney.com (virgil)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 12:15:21 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201803171215.21191.virgil@baloney.com>

On Friday 16 March 2018 4:46:49 pm Brick Robbins wrote:
> This is interesting
>
> http://ggweather.com/seasonal_rain.htm

There is more on the way:

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2018/03/californias-march-miracle-is-not-over.html


From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Mar 17 14:24:33 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 12:24:33 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
In-Reply-To: <201803171215.21191.virgil@baloney.com>
References: <CALV1NzkBkZ2NxkDAx-6EosYn8HqL8OeYfEvK1QS6xBH-pLxjZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <201803171215.21191.virgil@baloney.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzn02q52zs-EisGpRhrYVuiEdi0fcwCKL01mcqSOHiFSpg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 12:15 PM, virgil <virgil at baloney.com> wrote:
> There is more on the way:
> http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2018/03/californias-march-miracle-is-not-over.html

That is great news for California Agriculture. If the predicted
precipitation happens, followed by a "La Ni?a" cool spring, slowing
the snowmelt, it might not be a good year for an early departure.

Also it is good to remember, that early travel in the Sierra is not so
much determined by the snow levels, but the water levels due to snow
melt. Late Spring stable snow won't kill you, but High water in the
fords will.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 21:01:11 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 02:01:11 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Test Question... How long (what distance) is the PCT?
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jadrD5FS73i0gtGHXx893W3x4e5Uvy7CdUgYmRwDmbqA@mail.gmail.com>

Answer: 2,652.5 miles- due to a reroute. See Half Mile's website for the
update.

https://www.pctmap.net/2018/02/2018-pacific-crest-trail-map-updates/

All the best,
Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 21:57:09 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 02:57:09 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Watch "4K Laurel and Grinnell Lakes, Mono Recesses,
 Sierra Nevada CA Backpacking" on YouTube
Message-ID: <CALu=H=hNR_hx_zr+5-Z5560oSnk1jMcWFgvwNp+nLC8+AM8R2A@mail.gmail.com>

Reposting this video... perhaps the timing in posting it originally,
coincided with the list serve's hiccups, and it fell through the cracks for
some?

Enjoy!

I don't mind owing up to the fact that I had the pleasure and opportunity
to pilot the boat near the end of the video, while "working" last year at
VVR, near mile 871 of the PCT- NOBO, or about midpoint of the JMT.
Somebody's gotta' do it!

Paint

https://youtu.be/HwzxKljnAZ8

From bobbilbo at msn.com  Sun Mar 18 12:05:50 2018
From: bobbilbo at msn.com (robert livezey)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 17:05:50 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] HELP--PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <SN1PR14MB0303E30D5388534E68BAF059C0D50@SN1PR14MB0303.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of pct-l-request at backcountry.net
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2018 1:00 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 109, Issue 15

Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
	pct-l at backcountry.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.backcountry.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpct-l&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=5q820RtiymA%2FT%2FhEgmzSaNY7zmcSi1dYGWg6%2FLD3%2FL4%3D&reserved=0
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	pct-l-request at backcountry.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
	pct-l-owner at backcountry.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."


Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: CA precipitation to date (virgil)
   2. Re: CA precipitation to date (Brick Robbins)
   3. Test Question... How long (what distance) is the PCT? (Paint YW)
   4. Watch "4K Laurel and Grinnell Lakes, Mono Recesses, Sierra
      Nevada CA Backpacking" on YouTube (Paint YW)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 12:15:21 -0700
From: virgil <virgil at baloney.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
Message-ID: <201803171215.21191.virgil at baloney.com>
Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"

On Friday 16 March 2018 4:46:49 pm Brick Robbins wrote:
> This is interesting
>
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fggwea
> ther.com%2Fseasonal_rain.htm&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d
> 58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154
> 984&sdata=j0CtJgjs2DuF%2BwyBY0gVoQ%2F3qNCulK9Np4d%2FF8j1drg%3D&reserve
> d=0

There is more on the way:

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcliffmass.blogspot.com%2F2018%2F03%2Fcalifornias-march-miracle-is-not-over.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=kInkOvnvAgVqvSkDrThl2v74rTTgw85NQV8RehrDq74%3D&reserved=0



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2018 12:24:33 -0700
From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] CA precipitation to date
Message-ID:
	<CALV1Nzn02q52zs-EisGpRhrYVuiEdi0fcwCKL01mcqSOHiFSpg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 12:15 PM, virgil <virgil at baloney.com> wrote:
> There is more on the way:
> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcliff
> mass.blogspot.com%2F2018%2F03%2Fcalifornias-march-miracle-is-not-over.
> html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f6
> 40afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=kInkOvnvAgVqvS
> kDrThl2v74rTTgw85NQV8RehrDq74%3D&reserved=0

That is great news for California Agriculture. If the predicted precipitation happens, followed by a "La Ni?a" cool spring, slowing the snowmelt, it might not be a good year for an early departure.

Also it is good to remember, that early travel in the Sierra is not so much determined by the snow levels, but the water levels due to snow melt. Late Spring stable snow won't kill you, but High water in the fords will.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 02:01:11 +0000
From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Test Question... How long (what distance) is the PCT?
Message-ID:
	<CALu=H=jadrD5FS73i0gtGHXx893W3x4e5Uvy7CdUgYmRwDmbqA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Answer: 2,652.5 miles- due to a reroute. See Half Mile's website for the update.

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pctmap.net%2F2018%2F02%2F2018-pacific-crest-trail-map-updates%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=jDXM%2FEBwrfPyeQO0aKqKIHbzkABoGIsr4XqEMjw%2BLBY%3D&reserved=0

All the best,
Paint


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 02:57:09 +0000
From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Watch "4K Laurel and Grinnell Lakes, Mono Recesses,
	Sierra Nevada CA Backpacking" on YouTube
Message-ID:
	<CALu=H=hNR_hx_zr+5-Z5560oSnk1jMcWFgvwNp+nLC8+AM8R2A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Reposting this video... perhaps the timing in posting it originally, coincided with the list serve's hiccups, and it fell through the cracks for some?

Enjoy!

I don't mind owing up to the fact that I had the pleasure and opportunity to pilot the boat near the end of the video, while "working" last year at VVR, near mile 871 of the PCT- NOBO, or about midpoint of the JMT.
Somebody's gotta' do it!

Paint

https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FHwzxKljnAZ8&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=HAy%2F0gsxmUjoa0VTd3eoc3VqvscogrOgG1LZOeGweY8%3D&reserved=0


------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.backcountry.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fpct-l&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=5q820RtiymA%2FT%2FhEgmzSaNY7zmcSi1dYGWg6%2FLD3%2FL4%3D&reserved=0

List Archives:
https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.backcountry.net%2Fpipermail%2Fpct-l%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc835194144804858c81108d58cf1b221%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636569892059154984&sdata=2JJKSAbLrJ5nykCKk2c3IuRxervNr3PpvKb78E2p2nQ%3D&reserved=0

All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

------------------------------

End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 109, Issue 15
**************************************

From carolwbruno at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 18 19:33:27 2018
From: carolwbruno at yahoo.com (carol bruno)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 00:33:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>

I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California, portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.? I would like to hear from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.? Specifically want to know which sections are best for bringing pets. I usually hike August/September.? ?I have two standard poodles---very athletic dogs that love water and are very hardy obedient animals. I am aware of the pitfalls of bringing them along, but would still like some input from those of you who have had experiences both good and bad.BTW, for those who asked:? Switchback is alive and well.? If it weren't for him I would never have had the courage to continue on the PCT---perfect gentleman in every respect despite his efforts to reflect differently;)??

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From douglastow at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 20:28:24 2018
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 01:28:24 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] 2018 story from the trail
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOvn6NayQL+KbDzB_Lvexk7=c3BNmjBNmKZEcyO+b_HQBg@mail.gmail.com>

A wonderful friend of mine, 63, started the trail recently, and passes on
these experiences:

1.  Not making the miles he thought he would make in the beginning.
2.  His feet are doing better than he expected.
3.  He isn't a hungry as he thought.
4.  The altitude has been an adjustment.
5.  Making lots of friends.

All of this is normal, except most have some problems with their feet at
the start.
A bigger appetite will come.

The friends are the best part...

Chipmunk

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 21:57:06 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 02:57:06 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Watch "Mt Whitney Run" on YouTube
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jf_mY4gDh-URH_cZ9QQw84d=cSYWky806mjAjo2r9pLQ@mail.gmail.com>

https://youtu.be/QjTmNJmJXbk

It's not hiking... but for anyone that's walked up to the top of Mt.
Whitney, the view of the hut from a different perspective is quite
gratifying. Kind of like- hey, I been there!

Enjoy,

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 22:24:10 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 03:24:10 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] 2018 story from the trail
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOvn6NayQL+KbDzB_Lvexk7=c3BNmjBNmKZEcyO+b_HQBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOvn6NayQL+KbDzB_Lvexk7=c3BNmjBNmKZEcyO+b_HQBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=is6+_T-TFsjme5UpD637mSJjSkRgUUpg2FS9ZTFi7r6A@mail.gmail.com>

Great Clif Notes of a hiker's first impressions on the trail. Excellent
post, and bully for your friend.

I remember fondly my first steps on the PCT trail... mile 152 near Paradise
Valley Cafe.

I had rode a train from central Illinois, to San Antonio, TX, to Palm
Springs, CA. My buddy (Evil Goat) picked me up at night, hauling me up the
mountain to Anza.

The next day he took me to the trail. I just about exploded with
excitement, but my emotions were tempered by the fact that a
memorial/monument had been erected at the trailhead in an ode to a young
man that was murdered on the spot, as he came upon burglars breaking into a
car and in doing so, was murdered.

Hiking the trail since 2012, save for 2017. Bounced back from a heart
attack, in 2017, by working the season up at VVR.

Permitted for 2018, and on the trail in about 10 days.

The most profound understatement that I ever made was in my rookie year...
saying something about how the trail would not change me.

It has perhaps changed me, more than anything else in my entire life. "I'm"
letting that sink in...

Get out there, for a day, week, month, season, or multiple seasons- if you
are lucky enough!

In deep gratitude,

Paint

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 7:28 PM Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com> wrote:

> A wonderful friend of mine, 63, started the trail recently, and passes on
> these experiences:
>
> 1.  Not making the miles he thought he would make in the beginning.
> 2.  His feet are doing better than he expected.
> 3.  He isn't a hungry as he thought.
> 4.  The altitude has been an adjustment.
> 5.  Making lots of friends.
>
> All of this is normal, except most have some problems with their feet at
> the start.
> A bigger appetite will come.
>
> The friends are the best part...
>
> Chipmunk
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From timpnye at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 23:05:07 2018
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 21:05:07 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Wolverines
Message-ID: <5aaf3719.4740650a.5c8df.f701@mx.google.com>

The Wolverines will be operating out of Burnt Rancheria April 20 to the 23 this year.

From thelyn at icloud.com  Mon Mar 19 12:35:40 2018
From: thelyn at icloud.com (Lyn Turner)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 17:35:40 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] 2018 story from the trail
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOvn6NayQL+KbDzB_Lvexk7=c3BNmjBNmKZEcyO+b_HQBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOvn6NayQL+KbDzB_Lvexk7=c3BNmjBNmKZEcyO+b_HQBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55E895B6-58B1-43C6-8B9C-AEF682A08563@icloud.com>

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

Scottish Lyn


Sent from my iThing


> On 19 Mar 2018, at 01:28, Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> A wonderful friend of mine, 63, started the trail recently, and passes on
> these experiences:
> 
> 1.  Not making the miles he thought he would make in the beginning.
> 2.  His feet are doing better than he expected.
> 3.  He isn't a hungry as he thought.
> 4.  The altitude has been an adjustment.
> 5.  Making lots of friends.
> 
> All of this is normal, except most have some problems with their feet at
> the start.
> A bigger appetite will come.
> 
> The friends are the best part...
> 
> Chipmunk
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From lucecruz13 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 19 21:35:01 2018
From: lucecruz13 at gmail.com (Luce Cruz)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 19:35:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
> portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to hear
> from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.



Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
over or cause them to trip.

I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not their
problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.

I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and for
the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
and you'll probably do OK.

You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with my
dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.

-- 
Luce Cruz

From denisstanton at mac.com  Mon Mar 19 21:41:16 2018
From: denisstanton at mac.com (Denis Stanton)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:41:16 +1300
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7F5B5D09-318F-4067-AFD7-2F2FC9CAD69A@mac.com>

Thank you Luce.  As someone who would rather not encounter dogs off leash I appreciate your attitude.  Good luck with the truffle hunting.

Denis Stanton

> On 20/03/2018, at 3:35 PM, Luce Cruz <lucecruz13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
>> portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to hear
>> from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
> people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
> loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
> necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
> over or cause them to trip.
> 
> I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
> afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
> trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not their
> problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
> people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
> messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.
> 
> I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and for
> the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
> them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
> and you'll probably do OK.
> 
> You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
> some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with my
> dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.
> 
> -- 
> Luce Cruz
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From timpnye at gmail.com  Mon Mar 19 23:50:40 2018
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 21:50:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Wolverines
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=guYeUpgOzKUFCpEr2eCnHf0ZKhctTF5FbpBQqCt9YMpg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5ab09347.c224630a.4c6c0.3b7f@mx.google.com>

The Wolverines have been running the Shakedown Shack at KO. They're unrelated to the Michigan Wolverines and the Big Ten. This was just a heads up for any hikers this year. Hoosierdaddy will be carrying Andrea Dinsmore's ashes NB on the trail this year on their behalf.
-------- Original message --------From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> Date: 3/18/18  9:20 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: timpnye <timpnye at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wolverines 
Why is the Big Ten representing all the time? What about the Longhorns, or the Sun Devils?
Love ya'
Go light
Go fast
Paint
On Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 10:05 PM timpnye <timpnye at gmail.com> wrote:
The Wolverines will be operating out of Burnt Rancheria April 20 to the 23 this year.

_______________________________________________

Pct-L mailing list

Pct-L at backcountry.net

To unsubscribe, or change options visit:

http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l



List Archives:

http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/

All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.

Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.



From troopharrison at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 10:22:55 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:22:55 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <7F5B5D09-318F-4067-AFD7-2F2FC9CAD69A@mac.com>
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7F5B5D09-318F-4067-AFD7-2F2FC9CAD69A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <4B1A1446-1C83-48FE-90FA-51A4A46305C7@gmail.com>

I love dogs!! My current dog Pippa is a ray of sunshine. 
-------------- next part --------------


I used to be one of those people who would ?vouch? for what my dog would or would not do. My last dog shockingly attacked a contractor who was in my backyard and injured his face pretty badly. (The contractor is fine now and you can?t see the scars.) I never saw that coming. I learned a valuable lesson in that experience - dogs are wonderful but they are animals and you have to be cautious, and thoughtful about the situations you place them in. 

Pippa isn?t aggressive but I totally understand when I read from someone?s body language that they don?t love having a dog trotting around. I would say about 20% of the people who come in and out of our house don?t seem to enjoy her hanging around, so I will put her up with a treat and some toys. No big deal!

Like I said, I am a big dog lover! But when an off leash dog runs up to me on trail, I am definitely on guard. It?s not my favorite thing. Dogs are powerful and things can go bad very quickly, as I unfortunately learned firsthand - even with a trusted puppy.

Be safe out there :)
GoGo

Sent from my iPhone


> On Mar 19, 2018, at 9:41 PM, Denis Stanton <denisstanton at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Luce.  As someone who would rather not encounter dogs off leash I appreciate your attitude.  Good luck with the truffle hunting.
> 
> Denis Stanton
> 
>> On 20/03/2018, at 3:35 PM, Luce Cruz <lucecruz13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
>>> portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to hear
>>> from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
>> people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
>> loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
>> necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
>> over or cause them to trip.
>> 
>> I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
>> afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
>> trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not their
>> problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
>> people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
>> messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.
>> 
>> I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and for
>> the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
>> them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
>> and you'll probably do OK.
>> 
>> You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
>> some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with my
>> dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Luce Cruz
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From edjarrett at msn.com  Tue Mar 20 10:40:15 2018
From: edjarrett at msn.com (Ed Jarrett)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:40:15 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>,
 <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB1560E2783D2C1566F36DFE8BAAAB0@CY4PR19MB1560.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>

I, for one, want to thank you for your consideration. I have no issue with dogs per se. But I have no interest in interacting with them and am always leery of them, having been bitten a couple of times. The biggest problem I have is with the owners who try to assure me that the dog barking at my heels is friendly and won't hurt me. And they seem offended when I don't take their word for it. Go figure.

Ed Jarrett (Eeyore)
Web site: http://aclayjar.net
Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71
________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Luce Cruz <lucecruz13 at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 7:35 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
> portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to hear
> from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.



Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
over or cause them to trip.

I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not their
problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.

I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and for
the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
and you'll probably do OK.

You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with my
dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.

--
Luce Cruz
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 11:06:38 2018
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 16:06:38 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB1560E2783D2C1566F36DFE8BAAAB0@CY4PR19MB1560.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY4PR19MB1560E2783D2C1566F36DFE8BAAAB0@CY4PR19MB1560.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3iRABHVOEW01t4DCt52+647WYmyQSGWzAv1PRPiGZNc1g@mail.gmail.com>

Another factor to consider - humans are about the most efficient walkers on
the planet. Few animals can keep up with a moderately fit human day after
day on a long trail - certainly not on the marathon-length daily hikes that
are routine for long-distance hikers. Unless your dog is a super athlete
(there are some) it will begin to suffer after a few long days on the
trail. I learned this the hard way and still regret how I abused the faith
of a beloved friend.

Drew

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:40 AM Ed Jarrett <edjarrett at msn.com> wrote:

> I, for one, want to thank you for your consideration. I have no issue with
> dogs per se. But I have no interest in interacting with them and am always
> leery of them, having been bitten a couple of times. The biggest problem I
> have is with the owners who try to assure me that the dog barking at my
> heels is friendly and won't hurt me. And they seem offended when I don't
> take their word for it. Go figure.
>
> Ed Jarrett (Eeyore)
> Web site: http://aclayjar.net
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71
> ________________________________
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Luce Cruz <
> lucecruz13 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 7:35 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
> > portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to
> hear
> > from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.
>
>
>
> Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
> people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
> loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
> necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
> over or cause them to trip.
>
> I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
> afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
> trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not their
> problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
> people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
> messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.
>
> I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and for
> the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
> them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
> and you'll probably do OK.
>
> You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
> some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with my
> dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.
>
> --
> Luce Cruz
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
-- 
Walking to the light <http://drewsmithblog.com>

From TBrokaw at montmush.com  Tue Mar 20 15:28:16 2018
From: TBrokaw at montmush.com (TBrokaw at montmush.com)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:28:16 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFA2EFEBA7.7AE0EFF2-ON88258256.007073AA-1521577696046@montmush.com>


My dog has been my main training partner although I leave him home while on
the PCT. However I take him on a weekend pack trip at least once a year (on
leash).
Since I dont want to lose him to a snake bite, I have had to search for new
snake free areas (very rare). If you are in N Cal, one such spot is the
Caribou Wilderness. This is adjacent to & east of Mt Lassen. Very lovely
area with many lakes for swiming & fishing. Although only about 7000 ft in
elevation, Ive never seen a rattle snake or met anyone that has. Once We
are camped & no one around, I let my dog explore while keeping an eye on
him. Check it out if you want to pack with a dog without risking snake
bite.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 19, 2018, at 7:36 PM, Luce Cruz <lucecruz13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>>
>> I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
>> portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to
hear
>> from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.
>
>
>
> Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
> people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
> loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
> necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
> over or cause them to trip.
>
> I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
> afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
> trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not
their
> problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
> people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
> messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.
>
> I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and
for
> the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
> them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
> and you'll probably do OK.
>
> You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
> some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with
my
> dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.
>
> --
> Luce Cruz
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From thelyn at icloud.com  Tue Mar 20 16:29:42 2018
From: thelyn at icloud.com (Lyn Turner)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 21:29:42 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
In-Reply-To: <CAFiWH3iRABHVOEW01t4DCt52+647WYmyQSGWzAv1PRPiGZNc1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1578191399.2915578.1521419607643@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAPdO7Fwi-f7_0YJ4d-G4igWawocmv7-yxFHNgvxuJyue8+AEuw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CY4PR19MB1560E2783D2C1566F36DFE8BAAAB0@CY4PR19MB1560.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAFiWH3iRABHVOEW01t4DCt52+647WYmyQSGWzAv1PRPiGZNc1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1640A3DA-A5C7-44DA-82CB-E9A85049E7CF@icloud.com>

Wise words. 

None of the dogs I met on the PCT seemed happy, and one flopped to the ground every moment it could, weighed down by a small pack. Don't know about huskies or other breeds bred for hard work and long distances, but I guess the kindest thing for most folks is to leave their four-legged friend behind.

I know, I know.

Scottish Lyn

Sent from my iThing


> On 20 Mar 2018, at 16:06, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Another factor to consider - humans are about the most efficient walkers on
> the planet. Few animals can keep up with a moderately fit human day after
> day on a long trail - certainly not on the marathon-length daily hikes that
> are routine for long-distance hikers. Unless your dog is a super athlete
> (there are some) it will begin to suffer after a few long days on the
> trail. I learned this the hard way and still regret how I abused the faith
> of a beloved friend.
> 
> Drew
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:40 AM Ed Jarrett <edjarrett at msn.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I, for one, want to thank you for your consideration. I have no issue with
>> dogs per se. But I have no interest in interacting with them and am always
>> leery of them, having been bitten a couple of times. The biggest problem I
>> have is with the owners who try to assure me that the dog barking at my
>> heels is friendly and won't hurt me. And they seem offended when I don't
>> take their word for it. Go figure.
>> 
>> Ed Jarrett (Eeyore)
>> Web site: http://aclayjar.net
>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71
>> ________________________________
>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Luce Cruz <
>> lucecruz13 at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 7:35 PM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Dogs on the trail
>> 
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 5:33 PM, carol bruno <carolwbruno at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I have been section hiking for many years and have northern California,
>>> portions of southern Oregon and Washington remaining.  I would like to
>> hear
>>> from section and/or thru hikers who have brought their dogs along.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Some people just don't like dogs. Some people just don't like other
>> people's dogs. Some like dogs, but don't want to see them running around
>> loose in wilderness areas. Some are afraid they might get hurt, not
>> necessarily because your dog will bite them, but they could knock people
>> over or cause them to trip.
>> 
>> I have a German Shepherd. Some folks are afraid of dogs, and especially
>> afraid of "attack" type dogs. My dog has never hurt anyone and isn't
>> trained to do so, but some folks are really scared of her. That's not their
>> problem to deal with, it's mine. Keep her on a leash, move her away from
>> people, keep her under control, quiet, and clean up after all of her
>> messes. I bury her poop just like I bury mine according to LNT practices.
>> 
>> I think people want to have their own experiences out in the woods, and for
>> the most part don't want to share yours, or share it with your dogs. Keep
>> them quiet and under control, and that will help a lot. Keep that in mind
>> and you'll probably do OK.
>> 
>> You're gonna have to carry their food if you haven't taught them to carry
>> some weight themselves using doggie backpacks. I'm working on that with my
>> dog. I'm also training her to hunt truffles and mushrooms.
>> 
>> --
>> Luce Cruz
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> -- 
> Walking to the light <http://drewsmithblog.com>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From ikem.freeman at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 16:49:33 2018
From: ikem.freeman at gmail.com (Ikem Freeman)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2018 15:49:33 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Last 300 miles
Message-ID: <CALcsMcUrACDhnYGtqj7VvDcLwzgHxFyY2bNvEsTJU6jG7E4hpw@mail.gmail.com>

O. (Oscar) Ikem SoFar, here. Hope everyone is doing well. I also really
hope that this will be the year that I finally finish the hike that I
started in '08. I have (give or take) about 300 miles to finish ... I left
off at Highway 12 in Washington.

Has anyone heard how the snow pack is shaping up this year? Lite, Normal,
heavy? I doubt heavy.

In a normal year, I've heard that you can't start a SB trek until July 1.
I'll be NB, but in the same neighborhood as the early SBers.

I'm living in Boise, Idaho now, so I'll likely hitch a ride to Washington,
head West on Highway 12 until I reach the PCT.

In past years, I've requested an entry permit from the fine folks in
Canada, with plans to hike to Hope, then West to Vancouver. I doubt I'll do
that this time. I'll go to the border, take my pictures, then turn around
and hike back to first major road. Is that about 30 miles or so of
back-track?

Good to see that this list is still running. I'll be honest ... I have not
checked it or posted here in a very long time.

O. Ikem SoFar, Class of '08

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 21 15:18:59 2018
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:18:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Last 300 miles
References: <1312815987.3340493.1521663539991.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1312815987.3340493.1521663539991@mail.yahoo.com>

https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/


The Snotel sensors are a good indication as to the general state of the snowpack.? As for the last 300 miles, it's an average to above average year north of White Pass / Highway 12 - a bit heavier further north, a bit lighter toward the south.
South from Canada:Harts Pass: 132%
Rainy Pass:? 119%Stevens Pass:? 118%Olallie Meadows (just south of Snoqualmie Pass):?? 108%Stampede Pass (18mi south of Snoqulamie Pass):? 83%White Pass:? 89%

One element you should know:? If you head north from White Pass early season, the section from Chinook Pass to Government Meadows may not be open yet, after the Norse Peak Fire last year.? Crews have to wait until the snow melts to assess trail conditions.? The current order appears to expire in May, however it may be extended.? Check back to the PCTA web page and relevant USFS sources.
"In past years, I've requested an entry permit from the fine folks in Canada, with plans to hike to Hope, then West to Vancouver. I doubt I'll do that this time. I'll go to the border, take my pictures, then turn around and hike back to first major road. Is that about 30 miles or so of back-track?"Reply:? Yes, about 30 miles, give or take.? Halfmile calls it 30.57 miles from the border to Harts Pass.




From r-sturm at msn.com  Fri Mar 23 08:58:05 2018
From: r-sturm at msn.com (Richard Sturm)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:58:05 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1521738000.94225.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1521738000.94225.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds 7 days of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box it comes in).  I can only get  about 5 days of food into mine including packaging.  You'd have to dump all your food together out of the packages to fit in 7 days, right?


Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at least at my slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to "cheat" and carry a separate food supply kept outside the approved canister?  It wouldn't be practical to have two canisters.  One might consider the lighter Ursack (about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) as a backup to the canister, but apparently the local rules don't approve of that.


How do other hikers handle this issue?


Thanks,


RS

r-sturm at msn.com



From jplynch at crosslink.net  Fri Mar 23 09:01:31 2018
From: jplynch at crosslink.net (jplynch at crosslink.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:01:31 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.1.1521738000.94225.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <02B8D5D4671B419384EFBEB7DB00942C@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>

One suggestion I've seen is to carry the first day's food outside of the 
canister, since it'll be eaten before nightfall.  And for the last day, you 
don't need to carry food for dinner, since you'll be off the trail.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Richard Sturm
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 9:58 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?

Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds 7 days 
of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box it comes in). 
I can only get  about 5 days of food into mine including packaging.  You'd 
have to dump all your food together out of the packages to fit in 7 days, 
right?


Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between 
resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at least at my 
slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to "cheat" and carry a 
separate food supply kept outside the approved canister?  It wouldn't be 
practical to have two canisters.  One might consider the lighter Ursack 
(about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) as a backup to the canister, but 
apparently the local rules don't approve of that.


How do other hikers handle this issue?


Thanks,


RS

r-sturm at msn.com


_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From katyshaw at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 09:09:02 2018
From: katyshaw at gmail.com (Katy Shaw)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 07:09:02 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
In-Reply-To: <02B8D5D4671B419384EFBEB7DB00942C@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>
References: <mailman.1.1521738000.94225.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <02B8D5D4671B419384EFBEB7DB00942C@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>
Message-ID: <DE768187-F55F-4575-BF4F-3CFA7C95F426@gmail.com>

There are also several campsites in the Sierras that have bear boxes.  The first couple of days back on trail after a resupply, you can time your stops so that you arrive at those campsites if you have too much food that won?t fit into your canister. I saw several JMT hikers last summer who employed this strategy.

-Unicorn 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 23, 2018, at 7:01 AM, <jplynch at crosslink.net> <jplynch at crosslink.net> wrote:
> 
> One suggestion I've seen is to carry the first day's food outside of the canister, since it'll be eaten before nightfall.  And for the last day, you don't need to carry food for dinner, since you'll be off the trail.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sturm
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 9:58 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
> 
> Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds 7 days of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box it comes in). I can only get  about 5 days of food into mine including packaging.  You'd have to dump all your food together out of the packages to fit in 7 days, right?
> 
> 
> Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at least at my slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to "cheat" and carry a separate food supply kept outside the approved canister?  It wouldn't be practical to have two canisters.  One might consider the lighter Ursack (about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) as a backup to the canister, but apparently the local rules don't approve of that.
> 
> 
> How do other hikers handle this issue?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> RS
> 
> r-sturm at msn.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jplynch at crosslink.net  Fri Mar 23 09:16:13 2018
From: jplynch at crosslink.net (jplynch at crosslink.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:16:13 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
In-Reply-To: <DE768187-F55F-4575-BF4F-3CFA7C95F426@gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1521738000.94225.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <02B8D5D4671B419384EFBEB7DB00942C@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>
 <DE768187-F55F-4575-BF4F-3CFA7C95F426@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B3E18DD63CCF4D4C955DDE0DF743D853@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>

Katy has a great idea.  There are bear boxes at the Little Yosemite Valley 
campground (which is the only one I know about).

-----Original Message----- 
From: Katy Shaw
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 10:09 AM
To: jplynch at crosslink.net
Cc: Richard Sturm ; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?

There are also several campsites in the Sierras that have bear boxes.  The 
first couple of days back on trail after a resupply, you can time your stops 
so that you arrive at those campsites if you have too much food that won?t 
fit into your canister. I saw several JMT hikers last summer who employed 
this strategy.

-Unicorn

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 23, 2018, at 7:01 AM, <jplynch at crosslink.net> 
> <jplynch at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
> One suggestion I've seen is to carry the first day's food outside of the 
> canister, since it'll be eaten before nightfall.  And for the last day, 
> you don't need to carry food for dinner, since you'll be off the trail.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sturm
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 9:58 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
>
> Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds 7 
> days of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box it 
> comes in). I can only get  about 5 days of food into mine including 
> packaging.  You'd have to dump all your food together out of the packages 
> to fit in 7 days, right?
>
>
> Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between 
> resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at least at 
> my slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to "cheat" and carry a 
> separate food supply kept outside the approved canister?  It wouldn't be 
> practical to have two canisters.  One might consider the lighter Ursack 
> (about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) as a backup to the canister, but 
> apparently the local rules don't approve of that.
>
>
> How do other hikers handle this issue?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> RS
>
> r-sturm at msn.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 09:50:42 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 08:50:42 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
In-Reply-To: <B3E18DD63CCF4D4C955DDE0DF743D853@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>
References: <mailman.1.1521738000.94225.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <02B8D5D4671B419384EFBEB7DB00942C@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>
 <DE768187-F55F-4575-BF4F-3CFA7C95F426@gmail.com>
 <B3E18DD63CCF4D4C955DDE0DF743D853@LAPTOPHGAV43K9>
Message-ID: <aeb8ac61-6ff3-be79-3c6f-ae9b22e8d12b@gmail.com>

Here's a map of bear boxes in the Sierra.

http://sierrawild.gov/media/foodstoragemap/Bear-Canister-Required-Area-ver8.pdf

Here's the latest canister requirements for the national parks.

https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/bear_bc.htm

https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bearcans.htm

Jeff...


On 3/23/2018 8:16 AM, jplynch at crosslink.net wrote:
> Katy has a great idea.? There are bear boxes at the Little Yosemite 
> Valley campground (which is the only one I know about).
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Katy Shaw
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 10:09 AM
> To: jplynch at crosslink.net
> Cc: Richard Sturm ; pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
>
> There are also several campsites in the Sierras that have bear boxes.? 
> The first couple of days back on trail after a resupply, you can time 
> your stops so that you arrive at those campsites if you have too much 
> food that won?t fit into your canister. I saw several JMT hikers last 
> summer who employed this strategy.
>
> -Unicorn
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 23, 2018, at 7:01 AM, <jplynch at crosslink.net> 
>> <jplynch at crosslink.net> wrote:
>>
>> One suggestion I've seen is to carry the first day's food outside of 
>> the canister, since it'll be eaten before nightfall. And for the last 
>> day, you don't need to carry food for dinner, since you'll be off the 
>> trail.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Sturm
>> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2018 9:58 AM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
>>
>> Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds 
>> 7 days of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box 
>> it comes in). I can only get? about 5 days of food into mine 
>> including packaging.? You'd have to dump all your food together out 
>> of the packages to fit in 7 days, right?
>>
>>
>> Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between 
>> resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at 
>> least at my slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to 
>> "cheat" and carry a separate food supply kept outside the approved 
>> canister?? It wouldn't be practical to have two canisters.? One might 
>> consider the lighter Ursack (about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) 
>> as a backup to the canister, but apparently the local rules don't 
>> approve of that.
>>
>>
>> How do other hikers handle this issue?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> RS
>>
>> r-sturm at msn.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From rbalcorn at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 12:11:07 2018
From: rbalcorn at gmail.com (Ralph Alcorn)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:11:07 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
Message-ID: <CAAAw1RSToBfRmEebpe2NyjPNrfh2ef5Q9TEyZO2gRwVzjgDoVQ@mail.gmail.com>

The classic answer to this question is on Ken and Marcia Power's website
where they tell how to pack a Garcia with 10 days of food:
 http://www.gottawalk.com/planning/packing-a-bear-canister/
<http://www.gottawalk.com/planning/packing-a-bear-canister/>

-- 
Ralph Alcorn
backpack45.com, timecheck00.blogspot.com
Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of*: Healing Miles: Gifts from the Caminos
Norte and Primitivo, Patagonia Chronicle: On Foot in Torres del Paine*,*
Camino Chronicle: Walking to Santiago,** We're in the Mountains, Not Over
the Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned Women Backpackers*

From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Fri Mar 23 12:47:32 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:47:32 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY1PR14MB04747AA172455473EC1DE088F7A80@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <16253f909c2-c87-17622@webjas-vaa026.srv.aolmail.net>

Hi in 2014 My Granddaughter & I did K M south to Whitney & returned, 18 days. I had the BV 450 & She had the 500. 1st day of food was outside the canister, the last day we were out but had plenty for the trip-don't know how much you eat but we did it.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Friday, March 23, 2018 Richard Sturm <r-sturm at msn.com> wrote:
Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds 7 days of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box it comes in). I can only get about 5 days of food into mine including packaging. You'd have to dump all your food together out of the packages to fit in 7 days, right?


Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at least at my slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to "cheat" and carry a separate food supply kept outside the approved canister? It wouldn't be practical to have two canisters. One might consider the lighter Ursack (about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) as a backup to the canister, but apparently the local rules don't approve of that.


How do other hikers handle this issue?


Thanks,


RS

r-sturm at msn.com


_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From aslive at charter.net  Fri Mar 23 13:06:08 2018
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:06:08 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on PCT?
Message-ID: <RW681x0092WAjj001W68yb@charter.net>

Two Important considerations are: 1) packaging. I always repackage
everything in a plastic bag where the air has been vacuumed out of it.
2) dehydrated food. The water in your food takes up room and adds to
the weight. I either go with the stuff from REI or some other source
or make my own. This helps quite a bit.

	-----------------------------------------From: "William E Frenette" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: 23-Mar-2018 17:47:37 +0000
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear canisters too small for long stretches on
PCT?

 Hi in 2014 My Granddaughter & I did K M south to Whitney & returned,
18 days. I had the BV 450 & She had the 500. 1st day of food was
outside the canister, the last day we were out but had plenty for the
trip-don't know how much you eat but we did it.

 Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
 Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

 On Friday, March 23, 2018 Richard Sturm  wrote:
 Regarding bear canisters the larger 2 lb 9 oz BV500 supposedly holds
7 days of food, per the manufacturer (and this is written on the box
it comes in). I can only get about 5 days of food into mine including
packaging. You'd have to dump all your food together out of the
packages to fit in 7 days, right?

 Even if you can fit in 5-7 days worth of food, the distance between
resupplies in the Sierras can be 10 days from what I can see, at least
at my slow hiking pace. Doesn't this force many hikers to "cheat" and
carry a separate food supply kept outside the approved canister? It
wouldn't be practical to have two canisters. One might consider the
lighter Ursack (about 8-13 oz, depending on the model) as a backup to
the canister, but apparently the local rules don't approve of that.

 How do other hikers handle this issue?

 Thanks,

 RS

 r-sturm at msn.com

 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 /> 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 /> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 /> 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 /> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From barg at shaw.ca  Fri Mar 23 13:35:08 2018
From: barg at shaw.ca (Marvin and Shirley Barg)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:35:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [pct-l] bear cansister too small
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1521824400.17542.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1521824400.17542.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <328429609.24735770.1521830108073.JavaMail.zimbra@shaw.ca>

I've done 14 days (12 nights) KM to VVR with a side trip up Whitney. First 4 nights or so, no canister required so I carried food in a fanny pact. Last 8 night's meals managed to squeeze in the bear can. Grampa Kilt 




From wildvagabond at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 23 14:15:56 2018
From: wildvagabond at yahoo.com (Rob at wildvagabond ())
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:15:56 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Bear canister too small?
Message-ID: <2h1i6gf9imc13hm98eomwfwd.1521832556797@email.android.com>


    
Yes, I too had/have this issue.? At 68, I don't hike big miles.?Some ideas, which might get you extra days:1.? Remove freeze dried (and other) meals from packaging, squish out air. Roll, practice packing so you use every tiny crevice. Better, don't take freeze dried on long sections - see #2.2. Carry dense foods such as couscous, and dried powdered potatoes, quinoa, etc.3. Keep in mind that bear boxes are bear but not rodent proof.? Any stuff bags in a bear box will be shredded.? So, carry a rat sack (or equivalent, steel mesh bag with velcro top - there are different weight mesh options - all far lighter than canisters) as made popular in The Grand Canyon to keep out the mice, etc from food placed in bear boxes.? Ask me for more information if needed.?4.? Some areas/sections allow hanging ursacks with the Sierra hang system.?
Best of success, Rob, Wild Vagabond?

Wherever you go there you are! ?Rob of the WV: ?http://wildernessvagabond.com?

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 18:18:15 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 16:18:15 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] A side note on Bear Canisters
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM2cvsWGG1ZfeP88K=02YS7FZTWsk77-HFU=6HUnmeBDuA@mail.gmail.com>

When we were hiking the PCT in '15 we came upon a back country ranger in
the north part of Yosemite.  The ranger stopped and asked if we had a bear
canister.  We said yes and he asked if he could check.  We let him and he
just knocked on the side of my pack.  I ask him if he had one and he
knocked on his bear container through his pack.  About this time another
thru-hiker came along.  This was a hiker we had never seen before nor did
we see him again.  The ranger asked him if he had a bear canister, he said
that he would not answer that question and that he would not let the ranger
check his pack.  That doing so was illegal search and seizure and he hiked
on.  He said this in a very belligerent manner.  Not very becoming. After
the hiker was gone, I asked the ranger about this.  He told us that it was
true; he could not force us to let him look in our packs, unless he had
cause.  He also said that even if he had cause he would think twice about
it.  He was by himself miles from any help.  Not a good situation to put
himself into.  Although he could sit near our camp and watch to see if we
pulled out a canister.

Another thing the ranger told us was that almost every bear canister had
been busted open by some bears in Yosemite park.  The bears had figured
out, if the roll the canister away and push it over a 200-300' cliff it
would burst open and they could then eat the food.

I'm not saying anyone should use this tactic, but it is something to
remember.  Also, canisters are only needed to store food overnight.  You do
not see day hikers carrying them.  That is why most thru-hikers on the CDT
do not carry a canister when they hike through Rocky Mountain National
Park.  You can either hike the 22 miles route through the park or take the
3 miles alternate through it.

The Ravens
PCT '96, '15
CDT '17

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sat Mar 24 01:23:12 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2018 23:23:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Bear canister too small?
In-Reply-To: <2h1i6gf9imc13hm98eomwfwd.1521832556797@email.android.com>
References: <2h1i6gf9imc13hm98eomwfwd.1521832556797@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <7322e3a8-5e6e-ea1f-6e8f-a8ebdc6d93a6@marcusschwartz.com>

I had always heard that you were required to carry and use a bear 
canister in the Sierras, but that you weren't required to store *all* 
food and scented items in it.  I put my smellier items in my bear 
canister, and the less-smelly ones in an odor-proof Opsak.  Each night, 
I would store the bear canister approprately (i.e. in a depression >100 
paces from camp), and store the Opsak in my non-Sierra way (in my 
trash-compactor-lined backpack in my vestibule.  I never had any problems.

It's also worth mentioning that some foods are much smaller per calorie 
than others (e.g. cheese, nuts, peanut butter, other fatty things with 
little air).  Commercial dehydrated meals are quite large per calorie, 
and tend to have heavy, awkwardly-shaped packaging.

Also, a side note -- the Bearikade canisters are larger and lighter than 
any other Yosemite-approved canisters on the market.  They're expensive 
to buy, but renting them is cheaper than buying the smaller, heavier 
ones.  So unless you have concise plans to need a bear canister again, 
and think it's worth the weight and capacity penalty to go with a 
different canister, I'd strongly recommend renting a Bearikade.

And another side-note:  I think it's worthwhile to line bear canisters 
with a plastic bag and tie it off, to reduce odors.  Although a bear 
wouldn't be able to get in the canister, you don't want it being 
attracted towards your campsite (even if you have the canister 100ft 
away), nor do you want it messing with your bear canister and 
potentially knocking it down a hill.  It's also a little easier to get 
things in and out of the canister if there's a movable plastic lining.

It's almost impossible to line them with Opsaks (or other zipper bags), 
but there exist more flexible odor-proof bags that tie off with twisties.

  -=Town Food

On 03/23/2018 12:15 PM, Rob at wildvagabond () wrote:
> 
>      
> Yes, I too had/have this issue.? At 68, I don't hike big miles.?Some ideas, which might get you extra days:1.? Remove freeze dried (and other) meals from packaging, squish out air. Roll, practice packing so you use every tiny crevice. Better, don't take freeze dried on long sections - see #2.2. Carry dense foods such as couscous, and dried powdered potatoes, quinoa, etc.3. Keep in mind that bear boxes are bear but not rodent proof.? Any stuff bags in a bear box will be shredded.? So, carry a rat sack (or equivalent, steel mesh bag with velcro top - there are different weight mesh options - all far lighter than canisters) as made popular in The Grand Canyon to keep out the mice, etc from food placed in bear boxes.? Ask me for more information if needed.?4.? Some areas/sections allow hanging ursacks with the Sierra hang system.
> Best of success, Rob, Wild Vagabond
> 
> Wherever you go there you are! ?Rob of the WV: ?http://wildernessvagabond.com
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Mon Mar 26 15:21:44 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2018 13:21:44 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Charity Benefit, 1-day Sierra Snow Skills Intensive
Message-ID: <0bfb01d3c540$0f595d50$2e0c17f0$@mountaineducation.org>

This Saturday, March 31, will be the first Charity Benefit, 1-day Sierra
Snow Skills clinic!

 

 

. Cost, $150, but now FREE with a donation to this charity.


. Offered on Carson Pass


. 9am to 4pm


. Intensive overview of all safety skills and awareness needed for snow
travel


. Want to attend? Contact: ned at mountaineducation.org
<mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 17:24:01 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 15:24:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know if there is water at the 3ed gate water cache?

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Thu Mar 29 17:50:52 2018
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 15:50:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d3c7b0$64fc1550$2ef43ff0$@verizon.net>

The PCT water report says that as of 3/28/18 it was "well stocked."

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Tim Umstead
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 3:24 PM
To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache

Does anyone know if there is water at the 3ed gate water cache?
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jbpoppe at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 18:53:43 2018
From: jbpoppe at gmail.com (Gmail)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 16:53:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
In-Reply-To: <000001d3c7b0$64fc1550$2ef43ff0$@verizon.net>
References: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>
 <000001d3c7b0$64fc1550$2ef43ff0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <64B0FDDD-BFE0-44F9-A653-FB2E7685EDEA@gmail.com>

The trail angels that stock the cache will carry in another 60 gallons on Saturday, 31st. Info straight from Jan one of the trail angels. 

Grey Wolf
425-614-8702

> On Mar 29, 2018, at 15:50, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> The PCT water report says that as of 3/28/18 it was "well stocked."
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Tim Umstead
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 3:24 PM
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
> 
> Does anyone know if there is water at the 3ed gate water cache?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jbpoppe at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 20:01:32 2018
From: jbpoppe at gmail.com (Gmail)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2018 18:01:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
In-Reply-To: <64B0FDDD-BFE0-44F9-A653-FB2E7685EDEA@gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>
 <000001d3c7b0$64fc1550$2ef43ff0$@verizon.net>
 <64B0FDDD-BFE0-44F9-A653-FB2E7685EDEA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6E8FEA3D-C79A-40C4-A978-80AF0C542E9A@gmail.com>

New count is 360 gallons by Saturday. 

Grey Wolf
425-614-8702

> On Mar 29, 2018, at 16:53, Gmail <jbpoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The trail angels that stock the cache will carry in another 60 gallons on Saturday, 31st. Info straight from Jan one of the trail angels. 
> 
> Grey Wolf
> 425-614-8702
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2018, at 15:50, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> The PCT water report says that as of 3/28/18 it was "well stocked."
>> 
>> I-Beam
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Tim Umstead
>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 3:24 PM
>> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
>> 
>> Does anyone know if there is water at the 3ed gate water cache?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From richardb10 at live.com  Thu Mar 29 20:39:08 2018
From: richardb10 at live.com (Richard Brinkman)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 01:39:08 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
In-Reply-To: <6E8FEA3D-C79A-40C4-A978-80AF0C542E9A@gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>
 <000001d3c7b0$64fc1550$2ef43ff0$@verizon.net>
 <64B0FDDD-BFE0-44F9-A653-FB2E7685EDEA@gmail.com>
 <6E8FEA3D-C79A-40C4-A978-80AF0C542E9A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR16MB17191A08960C8AFF24281F4EA7A10@CY4PR16MB1719.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Great job PCT-L!

Roadwalker

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Gmail
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 6:02 PM
To: Gmail
Cc: PCT-L; Tim Umstead
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water cache

New count is 360 gallons by Saturday. 

Grey Wolf
425-614-8702

> On Mar 29, 2018, at 16:53, Gmail <jbpoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The trail angels that stock the cache will carry in another 60 gallons on
Saturday, 31st. Info straight from Jan one of the trail angels. 
> 
> Grey Wolf
> 425-614-8702
> 
>> On Mar 29, 2018, at 15:50, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
>> 
>> The PCT water report says that as of 3/28/18 it was "well stocked."
>> 
>> I-Beam
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Tim Umstead
>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 3:24 PM
>> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
>> 
>> Does anyone know if there is water at the 3ed gate water cache?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From Lafferty1 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 30 12:27:02 2018
From: Lafferty1 at yahoo.com (DK Lafferty)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 10:27:02 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail angels
Message-ID: <C9175921-C1E4-4247-97A4-BE473BF5E950@yahoo.com>


Trail angels are awesome
Sent from my iPad

From reddirt23 at att.net  Sat Mar 31 12:53:41 2018
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:53:41 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] BAMM class abstracts should be put online
Message-ID: <711C8043-EE9E-438A-A5BF-4AA143ED3D32@att.net>

As a side note:  I met very few people at Kennedy Meadows last season picking up snow gear there that had a reasonable clue what they were getting into.  The most common response I received when asking if they knew how to use an ice axe etc was something like they'd figure it out.  I don't even remember seeing anyone with a leash or lanyard on their ice axe.  It seemed kinda pahtetic


From gary at hbfun.org  Sat Mar 31 13:36:51 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:36:51 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR16MB17191A08960C8AFF24281F4EA7A10@CY4PR16MB1719.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAD3yqM2Fx4oDE7mOhHSsj4gGVpczSbJu_=b7Km4LGx3itgy6fA@mail.gmail.com>
 <000001d3c7b0$64fc1550$2ef43ff0$@verizon.net>
 <64B0FDDD-BFE0-44F9-A653-FB2E7685EDEA@gmail.com>
 <6E8FEA3D-C79A-40C4-A978-80AF0C542E9A@gmail.com>
 <CY4PR16MB17191A08960C8AFF24281F4EA7A10@CY4PR16MB1719.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <37368aca58a20d5518d2a848b9587de1.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

Any thru hikers going to pitch in and haul water up there?

On Thu, March 29, 2018 6:39 pm, Richard Brinkman wrote:
> Great job PCT-L!
>
> Roadwalker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Gmail
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 6:02 PM
> To: Gmail
> Cc: PCT-L; Tim Umstead
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water cache
>
> New count is 360 gallons by Saturday.
>
> Grey Wolf
> 425-614-8702
>
>> On Mar 29, 2018, at 16:53, Gmail <jbpoppe at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The trail angels that stock the cache will carry in another 60 gallons
>> on
> Saturday, 31st. Info straight from Jan one of the trail angels.
>>
>> Grey Wolf
>> 425-614-8702
>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2018, at 15:50, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The PCT water report says that as of 3/28/18 it was "well stocked."
>>>
>>> I-Beam
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Tim Umstead
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 3:24 PM
>>> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>> Subject: [pct-l] Water cache
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if there is water at the 3ed gate water cache?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>