[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8
Dave Novo
dnovo at ymail.com
Sun Jun 24 12:30:52 CDT 2018
So basically that's what this has all come down to? To get a certificate or some kind of award for thru hiking the AT or the PCT? I would argue that anyone out there doing it for an award or some kind of certificate shouldn't be out there in the first place. The hike in and of itself is its own reward. I've always thought thru hikers were people who thru hiked for the love of it and the way I see it you shouldn't need a pat on the back for something you love to do. It's not a profession or a job, or an academic achievement and now you want a reward for something that done or claimed to have been done thousands of time. If your looking for some kind of award I think you should reevaluate your reason for thru hiking.
Dave
On Saturday, June 23, 2018, 10:00:06 AM PDT, pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. PCT Through Mt. Jefferson in OR? (Rod Miller)
2. PCT medal and awards (Brian Gill)
3. Re: PCT medal and awards (David Hough reading PCT-L)
4. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (Rachel Egger)
5. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (Randy Forsland)
6. This is just a test, please ignore (Tanguero Rubio)
7. Re: PCT medal and awards (Gary Schenk)
8. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (marmot marmot)
9. Fwd: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (marmot marmot)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:13:04 -0700
From: Rod Miller <rod at rodmiller.com>
To: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Through Mt. Jefferson in OR?
Message-ID: <1ad2c3cb-0799-2b90-d7fe-3e32ac2cb339 at rodmiller.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
I'd like to hike a portion of the PCT past Mt. Jefferson.
This will be in about 3 weeks. I'm wondering if someone
can describe typical conditions (snow, mosquitoes) for
mid-July after a moderate snow winter.
Thanks!
--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale/S Scale West/Narrow Gauge West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2019 O Scale National Convention
http://www.rodmiller.com | 2019 Dates Are May 23 - 25
| http://www.oscalewest.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:01:57 -0700
From: Brian Gill <pctpanama at aol.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards
Message-ID: <9EC3B58B-4629-4CA2-B001-474EB90B7264 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Maybe I should apply for a award and plaque knowing I haven?t completed the trail. Under the name. ? liar liar pants on fire?. Lol. I sincerely think there should be different degrees of awards.. section over a period of years, through hike skipping, total through hike every square inch, and Triple Crown every square inch... I remember seeing a video of Yogi saying ?. There?s no one out there that hasn?t skipped a section of the trail in a season?. No offense to anyone, but if that?s true no one has ever completed the trail in a season. Be nice if there?s a special award for those that have.. hey, I have an idea???? We need a special PCT app that will monitor and verify. Also have a question to the group... Why when I post something is the punctuation all Screwed up with ???????? everywhere?
"Sent from my iPhone"
Brian
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net, pctpanama at aol.com
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards
Message-ID: <201806221954.w5MJsLhl017872 at server-f.oakapple.net>
So over 13 years, I've done almost all the PCT official and hiker alternates,
excepting
* the equestrian route through Sulphur Springs campground, which probably
doesn't exist any more;
* the bit of the Eagle Creek alternate between Wahtum Lake and the Indian
Mountain trail;
* the Angeles NF part of the official route that's been closed to protect
the frogs for many years (so it's time to change the official route?)
So what? With luck I could get my family and friends to listen
for about five minutes. Much more interesting would be the story of
somebody who got through the High Sierra safely, early in a high snow year,
even if they got burned out of Mt Jefferson and Columbia Gorge.
So what should ALDHA-West do? One approach would be to give up on giving
certificates for unverified completion, and instead invite anybody who
claims completion to give a five minute talk on the high points and low
points and what they learned. Then the speakers get a certificate
that they gave a presentation at ALDHA-W (which is verified) without
implying endorsment of all their claims.
Of course, anybody who has credibly
done something really new and different and interesting is likely
to be invited to give a longer presentation, since that's always been about
80% of the talks at ALDHA-W.
In my off-trail life, I attend professional conferences which have invited
keynote presentations, referreed contributed presentations, and poster
sessions for anybody who thinks they have something interesting to
communicate. That has the advantage that the other attendees can spend
as much or as little time on each poster as they think worthwhile.
But ultimately it hardly matters. One's hiking achievements,
whether they are truthful or exaggerated,
do not figure in academic tenure decisions or matter much to an audience much
larger than ALDHA-W members.
Of course an organization like ALDHA-W or PCTA could issue a booklet
to hikers that they could get stamped at trail angels and trail town
businesses. That's like the Camino de Santiago.
A completed one would be about as credible as any other certificate.
It wouldn't prove you hiked between the stamped points,
but it would be a nice souvenir.
http://camino.oakapple.net/photo/es/coruna/2003-06-22-paper/
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:36:59 -0500
From: Rachel Egger <egger888 at gmail.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Message-ID:
<CACouS0PHB3xMWGnpfUMT3+ykix_mwdBqAg9-Hof+UruHRzKZJg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hello all,
Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I
have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me
explain.
I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be
accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just
semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in
2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended
to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not
thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance
between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide
they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases,
that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate
the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking
community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable
alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple
crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for
personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath"
on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or
trespassing on private land to walk around closures.
I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what
you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of
thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against
perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were
victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the
face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't
mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who
weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people
need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a
better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem
created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail
post-Wild? Meh, maybe.)
Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a
world where the Facebook group is often too noisy.
-Do-Over, PCT '17
(For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the
sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the
fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.)
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:58:05 +0000
From: Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Message-ID:
<MWHPR14MB12635B97FF89D79F607391FBFF750 at MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system...
________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Rachel Egger <egger888 at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Hello all,
Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I
have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me
explain.
I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be
accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just
semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in
2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended
to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not
thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance
between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide
they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases,
that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate
the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking
community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable
alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple
crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for
personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath"
on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or
trespassing on private land to walk around closures.
I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what
you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of
thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against
perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were
victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the
face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't
mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who
weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people
need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a
better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem
created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail
post-Wild? Meh, maybe.)
Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a
world where the Facebook group is often too noisy.
-Do-Over, PCT '17
(For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the
sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the
fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.)
_______________________________________________
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:21:39 -0700
From: Tanguero Rubio <tanguero.rubio at gmail.com>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] This is just a test, please ignore
Message-ID:
<CABS1DfE0bJ05ECLOK+wCYzk-BPfdiG2PK-46QM=Rv01jhgWg8Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lorem ipsum dolor amet quinoa succulents authentic humblebrag viral tote
bag. Shoreditch migas succulents, bitters semiotics offal cornhole
pitchfork affogato jean shorts waistcoat mumblecore. Pabst stumptown enamel
pin pok pok.
Scenester keffiyeh bicycle rights flannel dreamcatcher yr food truck
selvage banjo pabst. Umami live-edge narwhal pour-over actually, pork belly
banjo drinking vinegar kale chips vaporware glossier jean shorts tacos
forage fashion axe.
Hella bitters yr, taxidermy adaptogen sartorial glossier mlkshk hashtag
irony VHS readymade ramps. Jianbing tofu bitters, vice succulents hot
chicken street art asymmetrical keytar gentrify chartreuse chicharrones
food truck.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:09:00 -0700
From: "Gary Schenk" <gary at hbfun.org>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards
Message-ID:
<22dcc4c011e08e745ca92ecfd8110489.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
We'll get the PCT to issue a GPS ankle bracelet with each permit.
On Fri, June 22, 2018 12:01 pm, Brian Gill wrote:
> Maybe I should apply for a award and plaque knowing I haven?t completed
> the trail. Under the name. ? liar liar pants on fire?. Lol. I
> sincerely think there should be different degrees of awards.. section
> over a period of years, through hike skipping, total through hike every
> square inch, and Triple Crown every square inch... I remember seeing a
> video of Yogi saying ?. There?s no one out there that hasn?t skipped a
> section of the trail in a season?. No offense to anyone, but if that?s
> true no one has ever completed the trail in a season. Be nice if
> there?s a special award for those that have.. hey, I have an idea????
> We need a special PCT app that will monitor and verify. Also have a
> question to the group... Why when I post something is the punctuation
> all Screwed up with ???????? everywhere?
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 13:12:47 +0000
From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
To: Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Message-ID:
<MWHPR0401MB353277E79A20C9320D0D89DBC8740 at MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Every time this is talked about people miss the point. No one is dismissing any hike. Each year there are challenges. Sometimes a particular year is so difficult that some hikers have to return and hike the parts that were closed. Once again --that is part of what we do. It is so sad and disappointing when you cannot do the hike you imagined. But it can sometimes be reality. I remember in Cindy Ross' book (87?) PCT---she called it finishing her thru-hike. She did it over two years. That's why the phase MYTH exists. I can't imagine anyone ranking or being disrespectful of the choices people make out there. It's just not a finished hike (continuous footpath) unless it is. It has alway included reasonable alternatives.
The TC states that.
Marmot
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system...
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Rachel Egger <egger888 at gmail.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
>
> Hello all,
>
> Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I
> have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me
> explain.
>
> I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be
> accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just
> semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in
> 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended
> to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not
> thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance
> between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide
> they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases,
> that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate
> the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking
> community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable
> alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple
> crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for
> personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath"
> on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or
> trespassing on private land to walk around closures.
>
> I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what
> you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of
> thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against
> perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were
> victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the
> face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't
> mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who
> weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people
> need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a
> better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem
> created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail
> post-Wild? Meh, maybe.)
>
> Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a
> world where the Facebook group is often too noisy.
>
> -Do-Over, PCT '17
> (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the
> sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the
> fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.)
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists<http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> mailman.backcountry.net
> To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net.
>
>
>
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:11:53 +0000
From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Message-ID:
<MWHPR0401MB3532D44A11B7015F3C631CC4C8740 at MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com<mailto:marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>>
Date: June 23, 2018 at 9:12:47 AM EDT
To: Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com<mailto:randy_forsland at hotmail.com>>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Every time this is talked about people miss the point. No one is dismissing any hike. Each year there are challenges. Sometimes a particular year is so difficult that some hikers have to return and hike the parts that were closed. Once again --that is part of what we do. It is so sad and disappointing when you cannot do the hike you imagined. But it can sometimes be reality. I remember in Cindy Ross' book (87?) PCT---she called it finishing her thru-hike. She did it over two years. That's why the phase MYTH exists. I can't imagine anyone ranking or being disrespectful of the choices people make out there. It's just not a finished hike (continuous footpath) unless it is. It has alway included reasonable alternatives.
The TC states that.
Marmot
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com<mailto:randy_forsland at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system...
________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>> on behalf of Rachel Egger <egger888 at gmail.com<mailto:egger888 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7
Hello all,
Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I
have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me
explain.
I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be
accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just
semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in
2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended
to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not
thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance
between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide
they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases,
that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate
the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking
community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable
alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple
crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for
personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath"
on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or
trespassing on private land to walk around closures.
I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what
you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of
thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against
perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were
victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the
face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't
mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who
weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people
need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a
better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem
created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail
post-Wild? Meh, maybe.)
Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a
world where the Facebook group is often too noisy.
-Do-Over, PCT '17
(For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the
sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the
fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.)
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net<mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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mailman.backcountry.net<http://mailman.backcountry.net>
To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>.
List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
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End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8
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