From reinholdmetzger at cox.net Sat Jun 2 06:10:14 2018 From: reinholdmetzger at cox.net (Reinhold Metzger) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 04:10:14 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance In-Reply-To: <1214704655.2255003.1527597301566@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1214704655.2255003.1527597301566@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Reinhold wrote: Randy, I am glad you made it back and your name is not among the 58,220 casualties engraved on the Vietnam Memorial....and thanks for serving. JMT Reinhold .............................. Randy wrote: It's a strange world sometimes....In 1965, i was a child in 6th grade...i remember the war news on TV at night ....I didn't understand all,but i still remember thinking that it was good to have a war now as there will be peace when i grow up...Didn't know the conflict would last so long...i ended up volunteering in 1971 and served 3 tours of dutie in Ton Son Nhut, Udorn, and Kurot...I was there during the last gasps of the war in 75 when Saigon fell, I participated in the recovery of the SS Mayagues in May of 75. ............................................. Reinhold wrote: Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance" and it took me back to a time very long ago. If? "Memorial Day"? means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch the movie "Taking Chance". It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on Memorial Day. It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for. I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way and makes me say the things I am about to say....... / We were? "just kids",? in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam. //"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of High//School, not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. / /We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die //for your country you should be old enough to drink. / /With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert, //cold weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho // Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion and ready to kick a$$. // We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time //of war, eager to be heroes. // That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing // crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying. //There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare. // Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was that //the bullet that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend. //In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones. //In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during //a time of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate price while serving his country during a time of war. //Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football //player who had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar contract to serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by friendly fire. //But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are //always the same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they served their country and paid the ultimate price. // If it were not for men like that, TRUMP might be our Prime Minister or //our national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their lives so that we can enjoy what we have today. //We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am older //and wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids". //Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and //Afghanistan are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough to die for their country. / /Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day //stands for. / /Reinhold Metzger //Sgt. USMC 1964-68 //Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines / /http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh / --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus From pctpanama at aol.com Sat Jun 2 17:25:53 2018 From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 15:25:53 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum Message-ID: What seems to be the most popular backpacking forum for the Pacific crest Trail now days other than Facebook? ? anti-Facebook?. This one has changed drastically in the last couple years and there?s very little traffic now days. Lots of off-topic subjects. :( I?m probably asking in the wrong place as I think everybody?s abandon ship here. "Sent from my iPhone" Brian From temp3 at mflan.com Sun Jun 3 12:53:12 2018 From: temp3 at mflan.com (Mike) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:53:12 -0500 Subject: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8dd3ebd1-979f-e3f5-92bd-0b9d924bc174@mflan.com> I too would like to hear where everybody is going, unless it is FB.? I'm not interested in that. There are quite a few sites with hiking diaries. Perhaps one of those is used?? Mike On 6/3/2018 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: > What seems to be the most popular backpacking forum for the Pacific crest Trail now days other than Facebook? ? anti-Facebook?. This one has changed drastically in the last couple years and there?s very little traffic now days. Lots of off-topic subjects.:( I?m probably asking in the wrong place as I think everybody?s abandon ship here. > > > Brian From pctpanama at aol.com Sun Jun 3 13:46:05 2018 From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 11:46:05 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] O.R rain jacket Message-ID: Anyone have any experience with O.R helium 2 rain jacket on a thru hike. ? "Sent from my iPhone" Brian From troopharrison at gmail.com Sun Jun 3 15:16:57 2018 From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison) Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 15:16:57 -0500 Subject: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum In-Reply-To: <8dd3ebd1-979f-e3f5-92bd-0b9d924bc174@mflan.com> References: <8dd3ebd1-979f-e3f5-92bd-0b9d924bc174@mflan.com> Message-ID: <6A434A30-668C-4E1F-AE11-51E23DAE50E7@gmail.com> I just left the fb 2018 page - not sure at this point where you?d go as a substitute. The smaller fb groups seem to still have helpful info and interesting conversations. Once they get big it just becomes unhelpful and immature, with a dash of meanness. Annnnd lots of naked hiking pictures - which are pretty a pretty selfish fad imo considering they?re not the only people on trail and not everyone wants to look at a stranger?s bare ass - hard to believe, I know! :D I feel bad for the kids/families out there stumbling onto that. I still consider this group a good resource if I have a question, but y?all prepared me so well in the past I?m good for now! Good luck! GoGo Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 3, 2018, at 12:53 PM, Mike wrote: > > > I too would like to hear where everybody is going, > unless it is FB. I'm not interested in that. > > There are quite a few sites with hiking diaries. > Perhaps one of those is used?? > > > Mike > > > >> On 6/3/2018 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: >> What seems to be the most popular backpacking forum for the Pacific crest Trail now days other than Facebook? ? anti-Facebook?. This one has changed drastically in the last couple years and there?s very little traffic now days. Lots of off-topic subjects.:( I?m probably asking in the wrong place as I think everybody?s abandon ship here. >> >> >> Brian > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From dr_carolyn at yahoo.com Mon Jun 4 14:37:36 2018 From: dr_carolyn at yahoo.com (CClark) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 19:37:36 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum (Mike) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7739018.8688304.1528141056842@mail.yahoo.com> Trythis Reddit discussion list. https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail/ SoulDoctor ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 12:53:12 -0500 From: Mike To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum Message-ID: <8dd3ebd1-979f-e3f5-92bd-0b9d924bc174 at mflan.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I too would like to hear where everybody is going, unless it is FB.? I'm not interested in that. There are quite a few sites with hiking diaries. Perhaps one of those is used?? Mike On 6/3/2018 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: > What seems to be the most popular backpacking forum? for the Pacific crest Trail now days other than Facebook?? ? anti-Facebook?.? ? This one has changed drastically in the last couple years and there?s very little traffic now days.? Lots of off-topic subjects.:(? I?m probably asking in the wrong place as I think everybody?s abandon ship here. > > >? ? ? ? Brian ************************************* From meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com Mon Jun 4 15:39:11 2018 From: meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com (Meridith Rosendahl) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 13:39:11 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum Message-ID: Yes, there probably are fewer people on PCT-L, but for a couple of years many of us were not getting digest messages and I think some just gave up and moved elsewhere. It's still a good sources of information, though, so don't give up. Piper's Mom > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2018 15:25:53 -0700 > From: Brian Gill > > > What seems to be the most popular backpacking forum for the Pacific crest Trail now days other than Facebook? ? anti-Facebook?. This one has changed drastically in the last couple years and there?s very little traffic now days. Lots of off-topic subjects. :( I?m probably asking in the wrong place as I think everybody?s abandon ship here. > > "Sent from my iPhone" > > Brian > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > > ------------------------------ > > End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 2 > ************************************* From pctl at marcusschwartz.com Tue Jun 5 00:44:27 2018 From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2018 22:44:27 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] PCT Advice In-Reply-To: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'd like to add some things that helped me: - Do a medium-length thru hike first. Something long enough to need a resupply, definitely more than a week. JMT is great for this, and is a great hike in its own right. - Do lots of short weekend overnight backpacking trips while figuring out your gear choices. If possible, do this in hilly deserts with sparse water, so you're prepared to the first part of the PCT. - Make absolutely sure you can do 20 mile days in hilly desert hikes with sparse water, necessitating ~4L water carries. - Long-distance aerobic exercise like marathon running can be a good way to ensure you're in good enough health to do a thru without injuring yourself. It can also help you understand your body's water needs, which is a very important technical point. The training can physically help, as well. It's not a perfect match for the stresses your body experiences hiking, but it's a lot easier to fit into a regular daily life than actual backpacking. - Don't mail your resupplies unless you have special needs (e.g. medication, serious allergies, etc.). The first several resupply points vary from adequate to excellent. It will give you a taste of whether you can manage with the resupply options available. It's unlikely that you'll be able to correctly predict your arrival dates, calorie needs, and food preferences far in advance. If this doesn't work out, you can always start mailing resupplies later. - Don't buy all your shoes in advance. You may discover that your foot grew more than expected in the desert. - Use one of the formulas available online to calculate the day you should enter the Sierras, based on available snow data. From that, derive your start date based on the miles/day you will average in the desert. If you don't have a reasonable idea of how many miles you will do per day in the desert, you aren't ready for this hike. - Things will go wrong. Badly wrong. So wrong you will wish you could bail out. But you're days from town, so you can't. So then you figure out a workaround, or change your technique to adapt, or just get over them. This is part of the fun! -=Town Food On 05/30/2018 09:31 AM, Barry Teschlog wrote: > Friend of a co-worker is going on a thru next year and is asking for > advice. Here's what I'm passing along, based on my experience and > observation. - You need to bein good enough shape to do 15 > miles / day right from day 1. Water is scarce and you must be able > to hikefrom one source to the next in a reasonable amount of time, > else you get soloaded down with water, it slows you even more. Spend > the winter / early spring walking with your pack, uphill, bothways ? > there is no substitute for thiskind of training. If you live in a > flat area, weight your training pack to be heavier than your trail > pack to compensate. Do stairs for some vertical training. > > - Minimalpractical pack weight is a key. Notethat is NOT > absolute minimum pack weight, but minimal for YOU, and what YOUneed. > There were people with 8 poundpacks, I was at about 16, others were > in the low 20?s ? all made it toCanada. The 8 pound guy I knew > sleptwarm, didn?t need a ground pad, was ok with bugs, etc. His kit > would have been wrong for me ? my 16pounds was the minimum I could > get to and meet my other needs (durability,sufficient clothing, > etc). - Pack weight &hiking speed are positive feedback. > Thatis, a heavy pack, begets and even heavier pack since it slows you > down,requiring even more water, food and fuel, which slows you down > even more. Hiking slowly does the same for the same reasons (more > water, food, etc). Heavy bulky tents and sleeping bags take upspace > and require a heavier built pack, that weighs more, than a smaller > pack(which you could use if your tent, etc was smaller and lighter.) > A lighter pack enables you to move morequickly for the same level of > effort, getting from one water source to the nextmore quickly, > allowing you to carry less water, which is lighter, and to get tothe > next town more quickly, enabling less food, etc. The cheapest way to > save weight in the pack is to not bring an unnecessary item. Quality > down gear is worth the price for the lighter weight, better warmth > and smaller volume in the pack - get a high quality sleeping bag, > take care of it, and it'll last you for decades of solid service > (which in the end is less expensive than buying and replacing cheap > bags). - Big miles come from time out of camp, not from walking > quickly. Get up early and get going. Hike until dinner time, or > even later, with dinner being a rest break. > > - Be familiarwith your gear. Everything you take toCampo, > should be well used THIS summer. Field test everything. Don?t be > that person (I saw them) trying to figure out a new shelter orpiece > of gear that first night on the trail. Don?t start with a brand new > pack ? I watched a guy struggle with a newto him pack that simply > didn?t fit. > > - Do NOT rush upto Kennedy Meadows if you get an early start > (e.g. any time in March or even inearly April). Take zero?s, go > slow, doside trips, volunteer a week or two at a Trail Angels place, > etc to adjust your Kennedy Meadows date to beappropriate to the > combination of snow conditions and your skill set. Except for the > most experienced, in general,I?d say never before June 1. > But?..don?tbe intimidated by snow either. A sensible, wellequipped > and well trained hiker can get through the Sierra in high > snowconditions. I left KM on June 14 of ahigh snow year and made it > through just fine ? but I had the skills and gear todo it, plus the > motivation to handle the very challenging conditions. Ignore the > panic that others instill in regards to snow. Impassable to them > might be challenging but doable for you. Conditions change quickly > during the melt, so that just a few days can make a huge difference - > reports from 3 days ago are out of date, go and put your own eyeballs > on the situation and judge for yourself. That said, check your ego > and be ready to turn back if a dispassionate analysis of the > conditions shows they are above your skill or comfort level. Do not > get "go fever" - that's what blew up the Challenger and killed the 7 > crew. > > - Start slow andtake lots of zero?s early on. I zeroed 2days > for the kick off at mile 43, and zeroed in Warner Springs, Idyllwild > (oneeach from Pines to Palms and again from Devi?s Slide), Big Bear, > Wrightwood,Agua Dulce (double) and Mojave. WalkerPass / Lake > Isabella was the first town stop without a zero. This allowed my > body to adjust to the rigorsof the trail and I avoided the all too > common early overuse injuries of peoplewho went too fast, too soon. - > There is nosubstitute for solid land navigation skills with map and > compass. Apps like Guthook and Halfmile are great,right up until > your phone dies (smashed in a fall, dunked in a creek > crossing,battery dies, etc, etc, etc). Paper mapin a ziplock bag and > compass are far more robust. If you don?t know how to map and > compass nav,learn. Orienteering is an excellent wayto do this. > Electronic nav also dumbsdown hikers ? witnessed is the person > staring at their phone / GPS trying tofind the trail under the snow, > when if they?d simply have looked, they?d seenit 15 feet over there. > Keep the head up,looking out of the cockpit, so to speak, instead of > staring at theinstruments. If you do this and payattention, you?ll > develop a 6th sense of ?where would they have putthe trail? having > been an observer of where they did put the trail the previousseveral > hundred miles. Head up andactively navigating = situational > awareness. Relying exclusively on an app = lost if it breaks. - > This hike is80% mental, 15% physical and 5% logistical. Keep your > head in the game if Canada is your goal. Along those lines, don?t > even think of Canadauntil you get to Washington. My way ofmentally > not getting overwhelmed was to set short and mid-term goals so > thateach day made noticeable progress toward those goals. Short term > was always the same ? get to thenext town stop (typically 3-6 days > away) and all the goodness that entailed ? foodon a plate, a bed, > shower and clean clothes. Mid-term goals were, in order: Get to Agua > Dulce (about 1 month or so, the transition period to thetrail), get > to Kennedy Meadows (done with the desert and gateway to the > highSierra). Get to South Lake Tahoe(through the high Sierra). Get > to halfway (Chester). Get the heck out ofCalifornia. Orgeon is a > mid-term goalunto itself. And finally at CascadeLocks, you are > allowed to think of Canada. - Staying healthyis paramount. > Managing blisters andchafe early on is critical. Propernutrition > (vitamins, minerals, protein, caloric intake) is a must else yourbody > will break down (lots of drops from the Sierra to half way from those > thatnever get their nutrition right ? they?ve been running on > reserves, but by thatpoint in a hike, reserves are exhausted). 2nd > breakfast and 2nd lunch help you to eat enough. Sanitation and > hygiene is critical to avoid giardia and othertransmissible disease. > Don?t be cheap onshoes ? replace them regularly (e.g. every 450 miles > or so) to help avoid stress fractures in the feet. Expect to burn > through 5-6 pair. - ?Plans areuseless, but planning is > indispensable? ? Eisenhower. This applies to the trail. Have a > plan, have a realistic time line, butdon?t be a slave to it. Reality > willdictate what you will do out on the trail. The planning will > inform you of your options once you get there. It will also inform > you if you?re makingreasonable progress (note that SOME schedule > pressure is a good thing, once youclear the Sierra ? it?s motivating. > Don?tdilly-dally, else you?ll be caught by snow in Washington). Be > flexible and adaptable ? if something isn?tworking, change. - > Budget: Have enough money for the hike. I?d recommend a minimum of > $5,000. It stinks when the forecast is for 3 days ofsteady rain and > you don?t have the funds to afford a couple extra nights in ahotel to > wait it out. Be frugal, but notcheap on the trail ? share hotel > rooms with other hikers, but pay the innkeeperthe extra person > charges (it is still way less expensive sharing a room vs solo) ? > don?t sneak people in to the rooms. That would make for ill will for > futurehikers. If you don't have enough money, some combination of > delaying the hike, getting a 2nd or 3rd job, sell your iCrap, quit > spending so much pre-hike will get you enough. Don't forget to set > aside money to get back on your feet once you get home post hike. 2 > months expenses is advisable. > > - You will neverbe so dirty as you will be hiking the desert, > or other dry areas of the traillike Nor Cal. See above in re > hygiene ?do your best to manage this. - Spot / inReach and similar > devices are for actual, immediately life threatening emergencies > only. Your first response should be to suck it up and self rescue, > not push the help button. Half rations are an option if you're > behind schedule on a section. Don't be a fool and go out into a fall > Washington storm thinking SAR can save your butt if you push the help > button. Choppers don't fly in snow and you could be a frozen corpse > by the time it clears enough for them to get to you. > > > - Beindependent. Don?t rely on others fornavigation, gear, > etc. That doesn?t meanyou can?t occasionally ask others for things, > but don?t be that person that isconstantly asking to borrow others > water treatment, or hike with other peoplesince you can?t navigate. > > - Go your ownpace. Never, never, never try and keepup with > someone that is faster than you ? that is the road to injury. - > Listen to yourbody ? if you need a break, take it. Ifyou need a > zero, take it. It?s fasterthan having to take time off for an > injury. - Life is neverso simple as on a thru hike. Wake > upwith the dawn, hike north, go to sleep with the darkness. Wash, > rinse, repeat. - The second halfof the trail in distance will > take considerably less time than the first half. There are a few > reasons for this ? you?realready in trail shape so you?re going full > speed vs the initial weeks ofcoming up to speed. You don?t have > thehigh Sierra to slow you down. Oregon isvery fast. I took a > slightly longer thanaverage of 161 days to get from Campo to Canada. > I didn?t get to Chester until day 93. It was only 68 more days from > there to Canada. On day 81, I was a couple of days out ofSouth Lake > Tahoe. - ?Embrace thebrutality?. Coined for the CDT, but > thespirit is applicable to the PCT. FromP-Mags - ?Now, there seems > to be some confusion over the meaning of thisstatement. It is not > for braggingrights, or to say how difficult the CDT may be or to make > the trail out to bemiserable. It is what a sarcastic, bluntEast > Coast guy says to another sarcastic, blunt East Coast guy. Namely: > Suck it up. Quit your whining. Takethe trail experience for what it > is. Enjoy it all.? IMO YMMV. HYOH. Free advice is worth what you paid > for it. Opinions are like pie holes, everybody has one. Yadda, yadda, > yadda....... > > _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All > content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is > prohibited without express permission. > From troopharrison at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 07:59:08 2018 From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 07:59:08 -0500 Subject: [pct-l] PCT Advice In-Reply-To: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This is great Barry!! Thank you! GoGo Sent from my iPhone > On May 30, 2018, at 11:31 AM, Barry Teschlog wrote: > > Friend of a co-worker is going on a thru next year and is asking for advice. Here's what I'm passing along, based on my experience and observation. > - You need to bein good enough shape to do 15 miles / day right from day 1. Water is scarce and you must be able to hikefrom one source to the next in a reasonable amount of time, else you get soloaded down with water, it slows you even more. Spend the winter / early spring walking with your pack, uphill, bothways ? there is no substitute for thiskind of training. If you live in a flat area, weight your training pack to be heavier than your trail pack to compensate. Do stairs for some vertical training. > > - Minimalpractical pack weight is a key. Notethat is NOT absolute minimum pack weight, but minimal for YOU, and what YOUneed. There were people with 8 poundpacks, I was at about 16, others were in the low 20?s ? all made it toCanada. The 8 pound guy I knew sleptwarm, didn?t need a ground pad, was ok with bugs, etc. His kit would have been wrong for me ? my 16pounds was the minimum I could get to and meet my other needs (durability,sufficient clothing, etc). > - Pack weight &hiking speed are positive feedback. Thatis, a heavy pack, begets and even heavier pack since it slows you down,requiring even more water, food and fuel, which slows you down even more. Hiking slowly does the same for the same reasons (more water, food, etc). Heavy bulky tents and sleeping bags take upspace and require a heavier built pack, that weighs more, than a smaller pack(which you could use if your tent, etc was smaller and lighter.) A lighter pack enables you to move morequickly for the same level of effort, getting from one water source to the nextmore quickly, allowing you to carry less water, which is lighter, and to get tothe next town more quickly, enabling less food, etc. The cheapest way to save weight in the pack is to not bring an unnecessary item. Quality down gear is worth the price for the lighter weight, better warmth and smaller volume in the pack - get a high quality sleeping bag, take care of it, and it'll last you for decades of solid service (which in the end is less expensive than buying and replacing cheap bags). > - Big miles come from time out of camp, not from walking quickly. Get up early and get going. Hike until dinner time, or even later, with dinner being a rest break. > > - Be familiarwith your gear. Everything you take toCampo, should be well used THIS summer. Field test everything. Don?t be that person (I saw them) trying to figure out a new shelter orpiece of gear that first night on the trail. Don?t start with a brand new pack ? I watched a guy struggle with a newto him pack that simply didn?t fit. > > - Do NOT rush upto Kennedy Meadows if you get an early start (e.g. any time in March or even inearly April). Take zero?s, go slow, doside trips, volunteer a week or two at a Trail Angels place, etc to adjust your Kennedy Meadows date to beappropriate to the combination of snow conditions and your skill set. Except for the most experienced, in general,I?d say never before June 1. But?..don?tbe intimidated by snow either. A sensible, wellequipped and well trained hiker can get through the Sierra in high snowconditions. I left KM on June 14 of ahigh snow year and made it through just fine ? but I had the skills and gear todo it, plus the motivation to handle the very challenging conditions. Ignore the panic that others instill in regards to snow. Impassable to them might be challenging but doable for you. Conditions change quickly during the melt, so that just a few days can make a huge difference - reports from 3 days ago are out of date, go and put your own eyeballs on the situation and judge for yourself. That said, check your ego and be ready to turn back if a dispassionate analysis of the conditions shows they are above your skill or comfort level. Do not get "go fever" - that's what blew up the Challenger and killed the 7 crew. > > - Start slow andtake lots of zero?s early on. I zeroed 2days for the kick off at mile 43, and zeroed in Warner Springs, Idyllwild (oneeach from Pines to Palms and again from Devi?s Slide), Big Bear, Wrightwood,Agua Dulce (double) and Mojave. WalkerPass / Lake Isabella was the first town stop without a zero. This allowed my body to adjust to the rigorsof the trail and I avoided the all too common early overuse injuries of peoplewho went too fast, too soon. > - There is nosubstitute for solid land navigation skills with map and compass. Apps like Guthook and Halfmile are great,right up until your phone dies (smashed in a fall, dunked in a creek crossing,battery dies, etc, etc, etc). Paper mapin a ziplock bag and compass are far more robust. If you don?t know how to map and compass nav,learn. Orienteering is an excellent wayto do this. Electronic nav also dumbsdown hikers ? witnessed is the person staring at their phone / GPS trying tofind the trail under the snow, when if they?d simply have looked, they?d seenit 15 feet over there. Keep the head up,looking out of the cockpit, so to speak, instead of staring at theinstruments. If you do this and payattention, you?ll develop a 6th sense of ?where would they have putthe trail? having been an observer of where they did put the trail the previousseveral hundred miles. Head up andactively navigating = situational awareness. Relying exclusively on an app = lost if it breaks. > - This hike is80% mental, 15% physical and 5% logistical. Keep your head in the game if Canada is your goal. Along those lines, don?t even think of Canadauntil you get to Washington. My way ofmentally not getting overwhelmed was to set short and mid-term goals so thateach day made noticeable progress toward those goals. Short term was always the same ? get to thenext town stop (typically 3-6 days away) and all the goodness that entailed ? foodon a plate, a bed, shower and clean clothes. Mid-term goals were, in order: Get to Agua Dulce (about 1 month or so, the transition period to thetrail), get to Kennedy Meadows (done with the desert and gateway to the highSierra). Get to South Lake Tahoe(through the high Sierra). Get to halfway (Chester). Get the heck out ofCalifornia. Orgeon is a mid-term goalunto itself. And finally at CascadeLocks, you are allowed to think of Canada. > - Staying healthyis paramount. Managing blisters andchafe early on is critical. Propernutrition (vitamins, minerals, protein, caloric intake) is a must else yourbody will break down (lots of drops from the Sierra to half way from those thatnever get their nutrition right ? they?ve been running on reserves, but by thatpoint in a hike, reserves are exhausted). 2nd breakfast and 2nd lunch help you to eat enough. Sanitation and hygiene is critical to avoid giardia and othertransmissible disease. Don?t be cheap onshoes ? replace them regularly (e.g. every 450 miles or so) to help avoid stress fractures in the feet. Expect to burn through 5-6 pair. > - ?Plans areuseless, but planning is indispensable? ? Eisenhower. This applies to the trail. Have a plan, have a realistic time line, butdon?t be a slave to it. Reality willdictate what you will do out on the trail. The planning will inform you of your options once you get there. It will also inform you if you?re makingreasonable progress (note that SOME schedule pressure is a good thing, once youclear the Sierra ? it?s motivating. Don?tdilly-dally, else you?ll be caught by snow in Washington). Be flexible and adaptable ? if something isn?tworking, change. > - Budget: Have enough money for the hike. I?d recommend a minimum of $5,000. It stinks when the forecast is for 3 days ofsteady rain and you don?t have the funds to afford a couple extra nights in ahotel to wait it out. Be frugal, but notcheap on the trail ? share hotel rooms with other hikers, but pay the innkeeperthe extra person charges (it is still way less expensive sharing a room vs solo) ? don?t sneak people in to the rooms. That would make for ill will for futurehikers. If you don't have enough money, some combination of delaying the hike, getting a 2nd or 3rd job, sell your iCrap, quit spending so much pre-hike will get you enough. Don't forget to set aside money to get back on your feet once you get home post hike. 2 months expenses is advisable. > > - You will neverbe so dirty as you will be hiking the desert, or other dry areas of the traillike Nor Cal. See above in re hygiene ?do your best to manage this. > - Spot / inReach and similar devices are for actual, immediately life threatening emergencies only. Your first response should be to suck it up and self rescue, not push the help button. Half rations are an option if you're behind schedule on a section. Don't be a fool and go out into a fall Washington storm thinking SAR can save your butt if you push the help button. Choppers don't fly in snow and you could be a frozen corpse by the time it clears enough for them to get to you. > > > - Beindependent. Don?t rely on others fornavigation, gear, etc. That doesn?t meanyou can?t occasionally ask others for things, but don?t be that person that isconstantly asking to borrow others water treatment, or hike with other peoplesince you can?t navigate. > > - Go your ownpace. Never, never, never try and keepup with someone that is faster than you ? that is the road to injury. > - Listen to yourbody ? if you need a break, take it. Ifyou need a zero, take it. It?s fasterthan having to take time off for an injury. > - Life is neverso simple as on a thru hike. Wake upwith the dawn, hike north, go to sleep with the darkness. Wash, rinse, repeat. > - The second halfof the trail in distance will take considerably less time than the first half. There are a few reasons for this ? you?realready in trail shape so you?re going full speed vs the initial weeks ofcoming up to speed. You don?t have thehigh Sierra to slow you down. Oregon isvery fast. I took a slightly longer thanaverage of 161 days to get from Campo to Canada. I didn?t get to Chester until day 93. It was only 68 more days from there to Canada. On day 81, I was a couple of days out ofSouth Lake Tahoe. > - ?Embrace thebrutality?. Coined for the CDT, but thespirit is applicable to the PCT. FromP-Mags - ?Now, there seems to be some confusion over the meaning of thisstatement. It is not for braggingrights, or to say how difficult the CDT may be or to make the trail out to bemiserable. It is what a sarcastic, bluntEast Coast guy says to another sarcastic, blunt East Coast guy. Namely: Suck it up. Quit your whining. Takethe trail experience for what it is. Enjoy it all.? > IMO > YMMV. > HYOH. > Free advice is worth what you paid for it. > Opinions are like pie holes, everybody has one. > Yadda, yadda, yadda....... > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From rkinder at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 11:41:35 2018 From: rkinder at gmail.com (Russ Kinder) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 09:41:35 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Popular Pct forum In-Reply-To: <6A434A30-668C-4E1F-AE11-51E23DAE50E7@gmail.com> References: <8dd3ebd1-979f-e3f5-92bd-0b9d924bc174@mflan.com> <6A434A30-668C-4E1F-AE11-51E23DAE50E7@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'll drop in a plug for the PCT subreddit (r/PacificCrestTrail) on Reddit. It's not huge, I think it has something like 14000 subscribers, but it's fairly active with lots of posts getting quality feedback. https://www.reddit.com/r/PacificCrestTrail On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 1:17 PM Sabrina Harrison wrote: > I just left the fb 2018 page - not sure at this point where you?d go as a > substitute. The smaller fb groups seem to still have helpful info and > interesting conversations. Once they get big it just becomes unhelpful and > immature, with a dash of meanness. > > Annnnd lots of naked hiking pictures - which are pretty a pretty selfish > fad imo considering they?re not the only people on trail and not everyone > wants to look at a stranger?s bare ass - hard to believe, I know! :D I feel > bad for the kids/families out there stumbling onto that. > > I still consider this group a good resource if I have a question, but > y?all prepared me so well in the past I?m good for now! > Good luck! > GoGo > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jun 3, 2018, at 12:53 PM, Mike wrote: > > > > > > I too would like to hear where everybody is going, > > unless it is FB. I'm not interested in that. > > > > There are quite a few sites with hiking diaries. > > Perhaps one of those is used?? > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > >> On 6/3/2018 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: > >> What seems to be the most popular backpacking forum for the Pacific > crest Trail now days other than Facebook? ? anti-Facebook?. This one > has changed drastically in the last couple years and there?s very little > traffic now days. Lots of off-topic subjects.:( I?m probably asking in > the wrong place as I think everybody?s abandon ship here. > >> > >> > >> Brian > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pct-L mailing list > > Pct-L at backcountry.net > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > > > List Archives: > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From sbryce at scottbryce.com Tue Jun 5 13:33:46 2018 From: sbryce at scottbryce.com (Scott Bryce) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 12:33:46 -0600 Subject: [pct-l] PCT Advice In-Reply-To: References: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0cc091e0-c5aa-c35f-1480-a6df03e9bc42@scottbryce.com> On 6/4/2018 11:44 PM, Town Food wrote: > - Make absolutely sure you can do 20 mile days in hilly desert hikes > with sparse water, necessitating ~4L water carries. Some of us require a lot more water than that. I planned for up to 7L, which underscores another thing you mentioned... > It can also help you understand your body's water needs, which is a > very important technical point. From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 13:54:52 2018 From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 11:54:52 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Hikertown- field report Message-ID: Paint Your Wagon here... my hike this year has been anything but average. Delays leaving home caused me to depart Arizona, on May 10th, instead of April 3rd, meaning- my hiking companions were already at Wrightwood, instead of Campo. I met them Saturday, May 11th, in town, finding out that one of the newest members of the tribe had an injury and suspected a bone fracture in their foot, so I took the person to a Lancaster hospital for an examination. The injury was diagnosed as an overuse injury, so rest over several days at the KOA near Acton was decided upon. Over the course of the next week, I provided trail magic using my vehicle to take hikers to the REI in Northridge. Eventually, I chose to hike up the mountain from Indian Canyon TH, on Soledad Canyon Road, nearest the KOA, hiking to North Fork Station. I met my friends on their way down, exchanging pleasantries, and then I chose to hike on up to the top and spend the night at North Fork, while they continued down the trail to the KOA. Later- it was another road trip to the REI, and then I was off on foot to Agua Dulce. Having a vehicle, prompted me to have to hike back to the KOA, and then motor to a primitive trailhead along Pine Canyon Road, approximately 8 miles SOBO of Hikertown. By this time, Hikertown was being populated by dozens of hikers per day, and Bob, the long term caretaker, was present and looking for a temporary replacement, so that he could get his truck and 5th wheel RV trailer road ready for a gold prospecting trip. I arrived in time to help fulfill that need, and spent about two weeks as a substitute caretaker at Hikertown. My daily briefing for the hikers was repeated multiple times a day, informing them of the opportunities and benefits to be had at Hikertown. First and foremost, water locations were pointed out. Also, the fact that the water was potable, and coming from the well, was made known, indicating that filtering was not needed. Hikertown is set up somewhat like a western movie set, with small prop buildings representing an 1800's town center, to include a Sheriff's office, which contains 3 sinks, 2 toilets, and a shower. Towels are provided, as well as shampoo and hand soap, for no charge. One of the more important prop buildings is the Post Office, containing, no less than 50 packages at a time, and a $5 handling and storage fee is charged, which is then used for supplies to do the laundry, clean the buildings, and hand scrubbing of personal clothing. Also, western prop buildings are offered up as shelter for $10 per night, to help offset the costs for water, propane, and electricity on the property. WiFi is available, along with an electronics charging station, and enough buckets, pails, brushes, and soap, to hand wash one's clothes while on site. A van assigned to the market and cafe, 4 miles away, made stops on the hour. Also, there was a personally owned vehicle on the grounds that the hikers could take to the store with some organizing among themselves. The market hours are 7am to 8pm, 7 days a week. The wind has been a constant companion, blowing round the clock, and the temperature has recently soared, since the coastal marine layer dissipated. Many hikers walk in early, beating the heat, and a few souls brave the heat and hike in at the hottest part of the day. Hikertown's owner is an investor in the Neenach Market, 4 miles east, and a shuttle van driver makes hourly runs back and forth to the market, cafe, and fuel pumps. Shade is probably next in importance to the water at Hikertown, and hikers invariably seek out a comfortable shady spot to lay over until the heat breaks around 5-6pm. Camping on the grounds is permitted, with the only rule- to stay away from the owner's private residence, and to use common sense and stay out of the driveway. A propane grill is available for use, and charcoal briquets can be had at the market if the propane tank is depleted of fuel. Phone reception seems to be working for most everyone, and if not, a hiker will lend a hand and loan out their phone for use. The next water and shade to be had NOBO, is a faucet at Cottonwood bridge, 17 miles E-NE. After that stop, in 7 miles is Tylerhorse Canyon, with water and some shade under a large tree near a stream. 32 miles NOBO of Hikertown, the trail enters forest covered land, providing shade over the next 8-9 miles down to the trailhead at Willow Springs Rd. A few observations stick out in my mind: the population of international hikers seems to be dramatically up over past years, and the packs are getting a lot smaller, and there are far more of them than there used to be... most of the injuries that I saw were overuse inflicted, due to hikers trying to keep up with other hikers, and because of this, not taking sufficient time off to heal. As the wise owl Evil Goat, my mentor- is fond of saying; rest is hiking too. Final thoughts: the coastal marine layer seemed to be as robust and consistent as ever, the overall hiker population was up but manageable, the trail towns seemed to be at their best behavior and a noticeable embracing of hikers was easily observed, hikers were overall polite, helpful and pleasant, and stating the obvious here- many of them smelled terrible and quite oblivious to their condition. One hiker referred to this common malady as nose blind. During my last night of stay, in sitting at the gathering table located on a wooden and shaded deck, sans the decorative night lights, and with the moon rising over the prop like buildings, a large winged bird appeared in the air, back lit by the glowing moon. Making large and sweeping beats with it's wings, the bird swooped into the largest tree on the property. From this perch, the bird began making a lengthy sounding of screeches, in hopes of (guessing) scaring a rodent out into the open, aiding in it's capture and subsequent devouring. Apparently, and after many minutes of vocal work that seemed to turn up nothing, the night grew quiet and the creature (apparently) slipped away unnoticed. My best guess was that this was an owl hunting mice or cats on the property. Best regards, Paint From reegox3x at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 13:57:27 2018 From: reegox3x at gmail.com (Brian Peterson) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 12:57:27 -0600 Subject: [pct-l] Ride from Reno Airport to Bridgeport on Sunday 7/1 Message-ID: Hi, I'm looking for a ride from the Reno airport to Bridgeport, California on Sunday 7/1. Unfortunately with it being a Sunday the Eastern Sierra Transit will not be running. I'm meeting a backpacking partner in Bridgeport for our summer backpacking adventure. I land in Reno around 9am on 7/1. If you're interested in helping me out, I'm more than happy to provide cash for the ride. Thanks, Brian Peterson From dzallis at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 14:17:18 2018 From: dzallis at gmail.com (David Zallis) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 14:17:18 -0500 Subject: [pct-l] PCT Advice In-Reply-To: References: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow, this is all amazing advice. Thanks for the share!!! On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:44 AM, Town Food wrote: > I'd like to add some things that helped me: > > - Do a medium-length thru hike first. Something long enough to need a > resupply, definitely more than a week. JMT is great for this, and is a > great hike in its own right. > - Do lots of short weekend overnight backpacking trips while figuring > out your gear choices. If possible, do this in hilly deserts with > sparse water, so you're prepared to the first part of the PCT. > - Make absolutely sure you can do 20 mile days in hilly desert hikes > with sparse water, necessitating ~4L water carries. > - Long-distance aerobic exercise like marathon running can be a good way > to ensure you're in good enough health to do a thru without injuring > yourself. It can also help you understand your body's water needs, > which is a very important technical point. The training can physically > help, as well. It's not a perfect match for the stresses your body > experiences hiking, but it's a lot easier to fit into a regular daily > life than actual backpacking. > - Don't mail your resupplies unless you have special needs (e.g. > medication, serious allergies, etc.). The first several resupply points > vary from adequate to excellent. It will give you a taste of whether > you can manage with the resupply options available. It's unlikely that > you'll be able to correctly predict your arrival dates, calorie needs, > and food preferences far in advance. If this doesn't work out, you can > always start mailing resupplies later. > - Don't buy all your shoes in advance. You may discover that your foot > grew more than expected in the desert. > - Use one of the formulas available online to calculate the day you > should enter the Sierras, based on available snow data. From that, > derive your start date based on the miles/day you will average in the > desert. If you don't have a reasonable idea of how many miles you will > do per day in the desert, you aren't ready for this hike. > - Things will go wrong. Badly wrong. So wrong you will wish you could > bail out. But you're days from town, so you can't. So then you figure > out a workaround, or change your technique to adapt, or just get over > them. This is part of the fun! > > -=Town Food > > > On 05/30/2018 09:31 AM, Barry Teschlog wrote: > >> Friend of a co-worker is going on a thru next year and is asking for >> advice. Here's what I'm passing along, based on my experience and >> observation. - You need to bein good enough shape to do 15 >> miles / day right from day 1. Water is scarce and you must be able >> to hikefrom one source to the next in a reasonable amount of time, >> else you get soloaded down with water, it slows you even more. Spend >> the winter / early spring walking with your pack, uphill, bothways ? >> there is no substitute for thiskind of training. If you live in a >> flat area, weight your training pack to be heavier than your trail >> pack to compensate. Do stairs for some vertical training. >> >> - Minimalpractical pack weight is a key. Notethat is NOT >> absolute minimum pack weight, but minimal for YOU, and what YOUneed. >> There were people with 8 poundpacks, I was at about 16, others were >> in the low 20?s ? all made it toCanada. The 8 pound guy I knew >> sleptwarm, didn?t need a ground pad, was ok with bugs, etc. His kit >> would have been wrong for me ? my 16pounds was the minimum I could >> get to and meet my other needs (durability,sufficient clothing, >> etc). - Pack weight &hiking speed are positive feedback. >> Thatis, a heavy pack, begets and even heavier pack since it slows you >> down,requiring even more water, food and fuel, which slows you down >> even more. Hiking slowly does the same for the same reasons (more >> water, food, etc). Heavy bulky tents and sleeping bags take upspace >> and require a heavier built pack, that weighs more, than a smaller >> pack(which you could use if your tent, etc was smaller and lighter.) >> A lighter pack enables you to move morequickly for the same level of >> effort, getting from one water source to the nextmore quickly, >> allowing you to carry less water, which is lighter, and to get tothe >> next town more quickly, enabling less food, etc. The cheapest way to >> save weight in the pack is to not bring an unnecessary item. Quality >> down gear is worth the price for the lighter weight, better warmth >> and smaller volume in the pack - get a high quality sleeping bag, >> take care of it, and it'll last you for decades of solid service >> (which in the end is less expensive than buying and replacing cheap >> bags). - Big miles come from time out of camp, not from walking >> quickly. Get up early and get going. Hike until dinner time, or >> even later, with dinner being a rest break. >> >> - Be familiarwith your gear. Everything you take toCampo, >> should be well used THIS summer. Field test everything. Don?t be >> that person (I saw them) trying to figure out a new shelter orpiece >> of gear that first night on the trail. Don?t start with a brand new >> pack ? I watched a guy struggle with a newto him pack that simply >> didn?t fit. >> >> - Do NOT rush upto Kennedy Meadows if you get an early start >> (e.g. any time in March or even inearly April). Take zero?s, go >> slow, doside trips, volunteer a week or two at a Trail Angels place, >> etc to adjust your Kennedy Meadows date to beappropriate to the >> combination of snow conditions and your skill set. Except for the >> most experienced, in general,I?d say never before June 1. >> But?..don?tbe intimidated by snow either. A sensible, wellequipped >> and well trained hiker can get through the Sierra in high >> snowconditions. I left KM on June 14 of ahigh snow year and made it >> through just fine ? but I had the skills and gear todo it, plus the >> motivation to handle the very challenging conditions. Ignore the >> panic that others instill in regards to snow. Impassable to them >> might be challenging but doable for you. Conditions change quickly >> during the melt, so that just a few days can make a huge difference - >> reports from 3 days ago are out of date, go and put your own eyeballs >> on the situation and judge for yourself. That said, check your ego >> and be ready to turn back if a dispassionate analysis of the >> conditions shows they are above your skill or comfort level. Do not >> get "go fever" - that's what blew up the Challenger and killed the 7 >> crew. >> >> - Start slow andtake lots of zero?s early on. I zeroed 2days >> for the kick off at mile 43, and zeroed in Warner Springs, Idyllwild >> (oneeach from Pines to Palms and again from Devi?s Slide), Big Bear, >> Wrightwood,Agua Dulce (double) and Mojave. WalkerPass / Lake >> Isabella was the first town stop without a zero. This allowed my >> body to adjust to the rigorsof the trail and I avoided the all too >> common early overuse injuries of peoplewho went too fast, too soon. - >> There is nosubstitute for solid land navigation skills with map and >> compass. Apps like Guthook and Halfmile are great,right up until >> your phone dies (smashed in a fall, dunked in a creek >> crossing,battery dies, etc, etc, etc). Paper mapin a ziplock bag and >> compass are far more robust. If you don?t know how to map and >> compass nav,learn. Orienteering is an excellent wayto do this. >> Electronic nav also dumbsdown hikers ? witnessed is the person >> staring at their phone / GPS trying tofind the trail under the snow, >> when if they?d simply have looked, they?d seenit 15 feet over there. >> Keep the head up,looking out of the cockpit, so to speak, instead of >> staring at theinstruments. If you do this and payattention, you?ll >> develop a 6th sense of ?where would they have putthe trail? having >> been an observer of where they did put the trail the previousseveral >> hundred miles. Head up andactively navigating = situational >> awareness. Relying exclusively on an app = lost if it breaks. - >> This hike is80% mental, 15% physical and 5% logistical. Keep your >> head in the game if Canada is your goal. Along those lines, don?t >> even think of Canadauntil you get to Washington. My way ofmentally >> not getting overwhelmed was to set short and mid-term goals so >> thateach day made noticeable progress toward those goals. Short term >> was always the same ? get to thenext town stop (typically 3-6 days >> away) and all the goodness that entailed ? foodon a plate, a bed, >> shower and clean clothes. Mid-term goals were, in order: Get to Agua >> Dulce (about 1 month or so, the transition period to thetrail), get >> to Kennedy Meadows (done with the desert and gateway to the >> highSierra). Get to South Lake Tahoe(through the high Sierra). Get >> to halfway (Chester). Get the heck out ofCalifornia. Orgeon is a >> mid-term goalunto itself. And finally at CascadeLocks, you are >> allowed to think of Canada. - Staying healthyis paramount. >> Managing blisters andchafe early on is critical. Propernutrition >> (vitamins, minerals, protein, caloric intake) is a must else yourbody >> will break down (lots of drops from the Sierra to half way from those >> thatnever get their nutrition right ? they?ve been running on >> reserves, but by thatpoint in a hike, reserves are exhausted). 2nd >> breakfast and 2nd lunch help you to eat enough. Sanitation and >> hygiene is critical to avoid giardia and othertransmissible disease. >> Don?t be cheap onshoes ? replace them regularly (e.g. every 450 miles >> or so) to help avoid stress fractures in the feet. Expect to burn >> through 5-6 pair. - ?Plans areuseless, but planning is >> indispensable? ? Eisenhower. This applies to the trail. Have a >> plan, have a realistic time line, butdon?t be a slave to it. Reality >> willdictate what you will do out on the trail. The planning will >> inform you of your options once you get there. It will also inform >> you if you?re makingreasonable progress (note that SOME schedule >> pressure is a good thing, once youclear the Sierra ? it?s motivating. >> Don?tdilly-dally, else you?ll be caught by snow in Washington). Be >> flexible and adaptable ? if something isn?tworking, change. - >> Budget: Have enough money for the hike. I?d recommend a minimum of >> $5,000. It stinks when the forecast is for 3 days ofsteady rain and >> you don?t have the funds to afford a couple extra nights in ahotel to >> wait it out. Be frugal, but notcheap on the trail ? share hotel >> rooms with other hikers, but pay the innkeeperthe extra person >> charges (it is still way less expensive sharing a room vs solo) ? >> don?t sneak people in to the rooms. That would make for ill will for >> futurehikers. If you don't have enough money, some combination of >> delaying the hike, getting a 2nd or 3rd job, sell your iCrap, quit >> spending so much pre-hike will get you enough. Don't forget to set >> aside money to get back on your feet once you get home post hike. 2 >> months expenses is advisable. >> >> - You will neverbe so dirty as you will be hiking the desert, >> or other dry areas of the traillike Nor Cal. See above in re >> hygiene ?do your best to manage this. - Spot / inReach and similar >> devices are for actual, immediately life threatening emergencies >> only. Your first response should be to suck it up and self rescue, >> not push the help button. Half rations are an option if you're >> behind schedule on a section. Don't be a fool and go out into a fall >> Washington storm thinking SAR can save your butt if you push the help >> button. Choppers don't fly in snow and you could be a frozen corpse >> by the time it clears enough for them to get to you. >> >> >> - Beindependent. Don?t rely on others fornavigation, gear, >> etc. That doesn?t meanyou can?t occasionally ask others for things, >> but don?t be that person that isconstantly asking to borrow others >> water treatment, or hike with other peoplesince you can?t navigate. >> >> - Go your ownpace. Never, never, never try and keepup with >> someone that is faster than you ? that is the road to injury. - >> Listen to yourbody ? if you need a break, take it. Ifyou need a >> zero, take it. It?s fasterthan having to take time off for an >> injury. - Life is neverso simple as on a thru hike. Wake >> upwith the dawn, hike north, go to sleep with the darkness. Wash, >> rinse, repeat. - The second halfof the trail in distance will >> take considerably less time than the first half. There are a few >> reasons for this ? you?realready in trail shape so you?re going full >> speed vs the initial weeks ofcoming up to speed. You don?t have >> thehigh Sierra to slow you down. Oregon isvery fast. I took a >> slightly longer thanaverage of 161 days to get from Campo to Canada. >> I didn?t get to Chester until day 93. It was only 68 more days from >> there to Canada. On day 81, I was a couple of days out ofSouth Lake >> Tahoe. - ?Embrace thebrutality?. Coined for the CDT, but >> thespirit is applicable to the PCT. FromP-Mags - ?Now, there seems >> to be some confusion over the meaning of thisstatement. It is not >> for braggingrights, or to say how difficult the CDT may be or to make >> the trail out to bemiserable. It is what a sarcastic, bluntEast >> Coast guy says to another sarcastic, blunt East Coast guy. Namely: >> Suck it up. Quit your whining. Takethe trail experience for what it >> is. Enjoy it all.? IMO YMMV. HYOH. Free advice is worth what you paid >> for it. Opinions are like pie holes, everybody has one. Yadda, yadda, >> yadda....... >> >> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list >> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >> >> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All >> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is >> prohibited without express permission. >> >> _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Wed Jun 20 16:14:44 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies Message-ID: It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns Go to the ALDHA-west website The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. Marmot Sent from my iPhone From pctpanama at aol.com Thu Jun 21 14:31:09 2018 From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:31:09 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Personally I wouldn?t be able to except a medal or certificate if I had skipped an inch. My understanding is there?s a good 95% that I have convinced themselves that they have completed it.. I only speak for myself , I could never skip an inch and look at that award on my wall.. i?ve heard a few people say, ? everyone skips something on the trail?. Well maybe it?s time someone actually complete the trail!! The keyword here is ? complete? I personally know of well known PCT hikers That Have skipped Huge amounts of the trail and still stood up proudly and excepted the award. It?s like running a race and receiving a first place ribbon and you never even finished... lol. I find it sad and comical... maybe it should be the comedy awards!!!! Don?t preach to me about fires this and that... .. complete means complete!! Panama. "Sent from my iPhone" Brian > On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: > > Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to > pct-l at backcountry.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pct-l-request at backcountry.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pct-l-owner at backcountry.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." > > > Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 > From: marmot marmot > To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" > Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns > Go to the ALDHA-west website > > The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. > Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. > Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. > Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. > Marmot > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > > ------------------------------ > > End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 > ************************************* From pctpanama at aol.com Thu Jun 21 14:36:43 2018 From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:36:43 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Maybe they?re should be a percentage or mileage on the certificate and hanging off the medal "Sent from my iPhone" Brian > On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: > > Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to > pct-l at backcountry.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pct-l-request at backcountry.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pct-l-owner at backcountry.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." > > > Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 > From: marmot marmot > To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" > Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns > Go to the ALDHA-west website > > The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. > Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. > Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. > Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. > Marmot > > Sent from my iPhone > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > > ------------------------------ > > End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 > ************************************* From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 17:41:00 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 22:41:00 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Maybe they could return their PCT metals. The PCTA could grind off their names and reissue them to someone who actually walked a continuous footpath. The Rosie Ruiz's of long distance hiking. If you don't get the reference Google it. Can you imagine someone like Ravensong or Strider or Yogi skipping sections? Of course not. Those are the people I respect. Strider didn't just hike the trail in '77 he stopped to plant 2,000 trees along the way. Last year I had the honor of handing Yogi her second Triple Crown. Ravensong as a 20 year old (?)was the first woman(as far as we know) to solo thru-hike the PCT in '76. I always say as far as we know because sometimes years later we find out about an earlier hiker that has disappeared from history somehow. Of course there's Jean Ella--'76 PCT,'79 CDT(I believe) Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Brian Gill wrote: > > Maybe they?re should be a percentage or mileage on the certificate and hanging off the medal > > "Sent from my iPhone" > > Brian > >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: >> >> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to >> pct-l at backcountry.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pct-l-request at backcountry.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." >> >> >> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 >> From: marmot marmot >> To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" >> Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies >> Message-ID: >> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns >> Go to the ALDHA-west website >> >> The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. >> Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. >> Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. >> Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. >> Marmot >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pct-L mailing list >> Pct-L at backcountry.net >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >> >> List Archives: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >> >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 >> ************************************* > > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 18:41:48 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 23:41:48 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> References: , <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> Message-ID: I guess that's precisely my point. HYOH is about whether you cut your toothbrush in half --not whether you claim to have done something you have not done It's quite a simple and low standard. Doesn't matter how many years it takes ,what direction ,whether you carry a pack or not --just a continuous footpath. Since when is being honest being on a high horse. Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2018, at 7:24 PM, aaron bakula wrote: > > Get off your high horse and hyoh! > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 4:41 PM, marmot marmot wrote: >> >> Maybe they could return their PCT metals. The PCTA could grind off their names and reissue them to someone who actually walked a continuous footpath. The Rosie Ruiz's of long distance hiking. If you don't get the reference Google it. Can you imagine someone like Ravensong or Strider or Yogi skipping sections? Of course not. Those are the people I respect. Strider didn't just hike the trail in '77 he stopped to plant 2,000 trees along the way. Last year I had the honor of handing Yogi her second Triple Crown. Ravensong as a 20 year old (?)was the first woman(as far as we know) to solo thru-hike the PCT in '76. I always say as far as we know because sometimes years later we find out about an earlier hiker that has disappeared from history somehow. Of course there's Jean Ella--'76 PCT,'79 CDT(I believe) >> Marmot >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Brian Gill wrote: >>> >>> Maybe they?re should be a percentage or mileage on the certificate and hanging off the medal >>> >>> "Sent from my iPhone" >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: >>>> >>>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to >>>> pct-l at backcountry.net >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> pct-l-request at backcountry.net >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 >>>> From: marmot marmot >>>> To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" >>>> Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns >>>> Go to the ALDHA-west website >>>> >>>> The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. >>>> Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. >>>> Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. >>>> Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. >>>> Marmot >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pct-L mailing list >>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>> >>>> List Archives: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>>> >>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 >>>> ************************************* >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pct-L mailing list >>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>> >>> List Archives: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >> _______________________________________________ >> Pct-L mailing list >> Pct-L at backcountry.net >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >> >> List Archives: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From susanvirnig at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 18:49:32 2018 From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 16:49:32 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D6A5630-2149-4674-8A7A-2B1081C42D92@gmail.com> Dear Marmot, Bravo ? and thank you. I started section hiking in 1977, and when I have had to leave early because the group I was leading needed to go out, or whether I sustained an injury or whether the weather turned really nasty, I have always gone back and hiked the 4 miles, or 10 miles, or 14 miles or whatever it was. Sometimes it?s a real pain to get back in there to cover what I missed, but I do it, because I want to hike the whole PCT. Right now I?m at 1700 miles, and if I?m able to complete this in my lifetime, it is going to be because I walked the whole way from Mexico to Canada. (Actually I?ve already hiked not just to Canada, but 7 miles in to Highway 3 ? currently working on the Sierras and southern CA.) Just wanted you to know that many of us share the belief that walking the whole trail means exactly what it says ? walking the whole trail. ?Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine > On Jun 21, 2018, at 4:41 PM, marmot marmot wrote: > > I guess that's precisely my point. HYOH is about whether you cut your toothbrush in half --not whether you claim to have done something you have not done > It's quite a simple and low standard. Doesn't matter how many years it takes ,what direction ,whether you carry a pack or not --just a continuous footpath. Since when is being honest being on a high horse. > Marmot > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 7:24 PM, aaron bakula wrote: >> >> Get off your high horse and hyoh! >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 4:41 PM, marmot marmot wrote: >>> >>> Maybe they could return their PCT metals. The PCTA could grind off their names and reissue them to someone who actually walked a continuous footpath. The Rosie Ruiz's of long distance hiking. If you don't get the reference Google it. Can you imagine someone like Ravensong or Strider or Yogi skipping sections? Of course not. Those are the people I respect. Strider didn't just hike the trail in '77 he stopped to plant 2,000 trees along the way. Last year I had the honor of handing Yogi her second Triple Crown. Ravensong as a 20 year old (?)was the first woman(as far as we know) to solo thru-hike the PCT in '76. I always say as far as we know because sometimes years later we find out about an earlier hiker that has disappeared from history somehow. Of course there's Jean Ella--'76 PCT,'79 CDT(I believe) >>> Marmot >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Brian Gill wrote: >>>> >>>> Maybe they?re should be a percentage or mileage on the certificate and hanging off the medal >>>> >>>> "Sent from my iPhone" >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to >>>>> pct-l at backcountry.net >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> pct-l-request at backcountry.net >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 >>>>> From: marmot marmot >>>>> To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" >>>>> Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns >>>>> Go to the ALDHA-west website >>>>> >>>>> The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. >>>>> Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. >>>>> Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. >>>>> Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. >>>>> Marmot >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pct-L mailing list >>>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>>> >>>>> List Archives: >>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>>>> >>>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 >>>>> ************************************* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pct-L mailing list >>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>> >>>> List Archives: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pct-L mailing list >>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>> >>> List Archives: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 19:00:20 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 00:00:20 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <4D6A5630-2149-4674-8A7A-2B1081C42D92@gmail.com> References: <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> , <4D6A5630-2149-4674-8A7A-2B1081C42D92@gmail.com> Message-ID: At least when someone says they are section hiking the trails I know when they are finished they actually did it. I don't care if someone yellow blazes. I don't care what they do. Being proud of the miles you have hiked is understandable. Just don't claim a finishing certificate/Metal. And Please do not show up at the Gathering as one woman and one man have done and receive a Triple Crown Plaque. Marmot ________________________________ From: Susan Virnig Sent: June 21, 2018 11:49 PM To: marmot marmot Cc: aaron bakula; pct-l @backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 Dear Marmot, Bravo ? and thank you. I started section hiking in 1977, and when I have had to leave early because the group I was leading needed to go out, or whether I sustained an injury or whether the weather turned really nasty, I have always gone back and hiked the 4 miles, or 10 miles, or 14 miles or whatever it was. Sometimes it?s a real pain to get back in there to cover what I missed, but I do it, because I want to hike the whole PCT. Right now I?m at 1700 miles, and if I?m able to complete this in my lifetime, it is going to be because I walked the whole way from Mexico to Canada. (Actually I?ve already hiked not just to Canada, but 7 miles in to Highway 3 ? currently working on the Sierras and southern CA.) Just wanted you to know that many of us share the belief that walking the whole trail means exactly what it says ? walking the whole trail. ?Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine > On Jun 21, 2018, at 4:41 PM, marmot marmot wrote: > > I guess that's precisely my point. HYOH is about whether you cut your toothbrush in half --not whether you claim to have done something you have not done > It's quite a simple and low standard. Doesn't matter how many years it takes ,what direction ,whether you carry a pack or not --just a continuous footpath. Since when is being honest being on a high horse. > Marmot > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 7:24 PM, aaron bakula wrote: >> >> Get off your high horse and hyoh! >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 4:41 PM, marmot marmot wrote: >>> >>> Maybe they could return their PCT metals. The PCTA could grind off their names and reissue them to someone who actually walked a continuous footpath. The Rosie Ruiz's of long distance hiking. If you don't get the reference Google it. Can you imagine someone like Ravensong or Strider or Yogi skipping sections? Of course not. Those are the people I respect. Strider didn't just hike the trail in '77 he stopped to plant 2,000 trees along the way. Last year I had the honor of handing Yogi her second Triple Crown. Ravensong as a 20 year old (?)was the first woman(as far as we know) to solo thru-hike the PCT in '76. I always say as far as we know because sometimes years later we find out about an earlier hiker that has disappeared from history somehow. Of course there's Jean Ella--'76 PCT,'79 CDT(I believe) >>> Marmot >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Brian Gill wrote: >>>> >>>> Maybe they?re should be a percentage or mileage on the certificate and hanging off the medal >>>> >>>> "Sent from my iPhone" >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to >>>>> pct-l at backcountry.net >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists mailman.backcountry.net To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> pct-l-request at backcountry.net >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 >>>>> From: marmot marmot >>>>> To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" >>>>> Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>>> >>>>> It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes and presentation of the Triple Crowns >>>>> Go to the ALDHA-west website >>>>> >>>>> The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. >>>>> Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. >>>>> Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. >>>>> Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. >>>>> Marmot >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pct-L mailing list >>>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>>> >>>>> List Archives: >>>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>>>> >>>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 >>>>> ************************************* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pct-L mailing list >>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>> >>>> List Archives: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pct-L mailing list >>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>> >>> List Archives: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From JimLBanks at verizon.net Thu Jun 21 19:23:52 2018 From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:23:52 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: , <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001d409bf$4da8f930$e8faeb90$@verizon.net> So, Aaron Bakula you defend people who lie about having hiked the entire trail. That is all we need to know about you. Marmot, we have had this discussion before and it sounds like the problem is getting worse. My take on it is that in the past the majority of people that hiked the trail were what we used to refer to as "outdoor people," people that love hiking, backpacking, and other outdoor activities and in general were people with a good moral compass. After the book and movie "Wild" we find the trail inundated by a whole new breed of hikers that represent a complete cross section of society and that brings with it a lowering of ethical standards. I just hope that eventually the notoriety of the trail among that group spurred by the book and movie will die out, but it will probably take a long time. It makes me very sad to see what has happened to our trail. I-Beam -----Original Message----- From: Pct-L On Behalf Of marmot marmot Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 4:42 PM To: aaron bakula ; pct-l @backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 I guess that's precisely my point. HYOH is about whether you cut your toothbrush in half --not whether you claim to have done something you have not done It's quite a simple and low standard. Doesn't matter how many years it takes ,what direction ,whether you carry a pack or not --just a continuous footpath. Since when is being honest being on a high horse. Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2018, at 7:24 PM, aaron bakula wrote: > > Get off your high horse and hyoh! > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 21, 2018, at 4:41 PM, marmot marmot wrote: >> >> Maybe they could return their PCT metals. The PCTA could grind off >> their names and reissue them to someone who actually walked a >> continuous footpath. The Rosie Ruiz's of long distance hiking. If you >> don't get the reference Google it. Can you imagine someone like >> Ravensong or Strider or Yogi skipping sections? Of course not. Those >> are the people I respect. Strider didn't just hike the trail in '77 >> he stopped to plant 2,000 trees along the way. Last year I had the >> honor of handing Yogi her second Triple Crown. Ravensong as a 20 year >> old (?)was the first woman(as far as we know) to solo thru-hike the >> PCT in '76. I always say as far as we know because sometimes years >> later we find out about an earlier hiker that has disappeared from >> history somehow. Of course there's Jean Ella--'76 PCT,'79 CDT(I >> believe) Marmot >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 3:37 PM, Brian Gill wrote: >>> >>> Maybe they?re should be a percentage or mileage on the certificate >>> and hanging off the medal >>> >>> "Sent from my iPhone" >>> >>> Brian >>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2018, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: >>>> >>>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to pct-l at backcountry.net >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> pct-l-request at backcountry.net >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY >>>> include stuff that applies to your reply >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Truth and lies (marmot marmot) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> --- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 21:14:44 +0000 >>>> From: marmot marmot >>>> To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" >>>> Subject: [pct-l] Truth and lies >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>> prod.outlook.com> >>>> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>> >>>> It's that time of year again. Time to register for the Fall >>>> Aldha-west Gathering. It's near Mt Hood 12th of Oct this year. Fun, >>>> tears,hiker connection and help planning next year's hike. Oh yes >>>> and presentation of the Triple Crowns Go to the ALDHA-west website >>>> >>>> The second subject is less pleasant. Please do not apply for a completion certificate for any of the trails if you have not done them. That means a simple standard. It is a continuous footpath with reasonable alternatives. I'm on the AT right now. Early on in the hike there were many conversations among the hikers about how many 2017 PCT hikers had gotten their completion medal(evidenced by Facebook pictures) who,it was well known,had skipped (yellow blazed) sections of the trail. >>>> Yes, it was a horribly difficult year. There's a lot of sadness to be deal with when the year that you choose to hike has high snow and/or fire. That is part of what we do. >>>> Please do not send in an application for a Triple Crown if you are not finished with all of each of the 3 trails. >>>> Be proud of what you did do ,not lie about what you did not. No one has to do these trails. The Triple Crown means something. A continuous footpath. >>>> Marmot >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pct-L mailing list >>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>>> >>>> List Archives: >>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>>> >>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 >>>> ************************************* >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pct-L mailing list >>> Pct-L at backcountry.net >>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >>> >>> List Archives: >>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. >> _______________________________________________ >> Pct-L mailing list >> Pct-L at backcountry.net >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l >> >> List Archives: >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From wandering_bob at comcast.net Thu Jun 21 19:33:35 2018 From: wandering_bob at comcast.net (Bob Bankhead) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 17:33:35 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> , <4D6A5630-2149-4674-8A7A-2B1081C42D92@gmail.com> Message-ID: <003d01d409c0$a939df20$fbad9d60$@comcast.net> As I understand it, completion of the Triple Crown does not have a time limit on any trail. In other words, I could spend 20 years section hiking one or all of the trails or thruhike each in any continuous 12 month period. I respectfully submit that a thruhike (in any given continuous 12 month period) is completed when the hiker covers all of the trail that is currently open at the time they reach it. If any portion of the trail is legally closed, they should not be penalized for not having hiked it. If a safe alternate route around the closure is available, they should hike it. If no such safe alternate is available, there should be no foul if they get around it by any means possible. The fires of 2017 closed large portions of the trail. Fires from prior years still have parts closed. The Eagle Creek fire last year COULD have resulted in the closure of the PCT from Lost Lake to the Columbia River - a 50 mile section with no safe walkable alternate. Kudos to the USFS, the Mt Hood chapter of the PCTA, and other volunteers who put in 5000 hours of labor repairing the trail, which is now open. Section hikers should meet the same standard. Section hiking purists have the time over the course of the years it takes to complete the trail to go back and hike sections they were forced to miss due to closures. Season changes and weather conditions mean that most thruhikers will likely not have that option, even if the closed sections reopen during that continuous 12 months. And lest we forget, it is illegal to enter the USA from Canada on the PCT, so most thru-hikers will need to yo-yo the 30 miles from Harts Pass to the Canadian border, unless they have the Canadian entry permit. -----Original Message----- From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of marmot marmot Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:00 PM To: Susan Virnig; pct-l @backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 At least when someone says they are section hiking the trails I know when they are finished they actually did it. I don't care if someone yellow blazes. I don't care what they do. Being proud of the miles you have hiked is understandable. Just don't claim a finishing certificate/Metal. And Please do not show up at the Gathering as one woman and one man have done and receive a Triple Crown Plaque. Marmot From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Thu Jun 21 19:53:41 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 00:53:41 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <003d01d409c0$a939df20$fbad9d60$@comcast.net> References: <9E5F714B-34F2-4951-8836-00A7089E3C0F@gmail.com> , <4D6A5630-2149-4674-8A7A-2B1081C42D92@gmail.com> , <003d01d409c0$a939df20$fbad9d60$@comcast.net> Message-ID: 2017 was a terrible year. Very very difficult. Many tears were shed. I sat for half an hour in Hot Springs and listened to one hiker explain how he and a group of hikers found a cross county and dirt road route around the Oregon fires. What a feat. I've always said that if I had done the PCT in '93 or '95 I would not have had the skills to do it. Too much snow. I was lucky I chose '94. It's always sad when the year you pick has such terrible challenges. That's a part of long distance hiking. It's a part of looking yourself in the mirror. It's one of the reasons ALDHA and Aldha-west were formed. Being around others who know what it is to be out there for months is priceless. Can't tell you how many hikers on the AT this year are the walking wounded. With braces/tape/supports on their ankles and knees. Hiking on Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2018, at 8:33 PM, Bob Bankhead wrote: > > As I understand it, completion of the Triple Crown does not have a time > limit on any trail. In other words, I could spend 20 years section hiking > one or all of the trails or thruhike each in any continuous 12 month period. > > > I respectfully submit that a thruhike (in any given continuous 12 month > period) is completed when the hiker covers all of the trail that is > currently open at the time they reach it. If any portion of the trail is > legally closed, they should not be penalized for not having hiked it. If a > safe alternate route around the closure is available, they should hike it. > If no such safe alternate is available, there should be no foul if they get > around it by any means possible. The fires of 2017 closed large portions of > the trail. Fires from prior years still have parts closed. The Eagle Creek > fire last year COULD have resulted in the closure of the PCT from Lost Lake > to the Columbia River - a 50 mile section with no safe walkable alternate. > Kudos to the USFS, the Mt Hood chapter of the PCTA, and other volunteers who > put in 5000 hours of labor repairing the trail, which is now open. > > Section hikers should meet the same standard. Section hiking purists have > the time over the course of the years it takes to complete the trail to go > back and hike sections they were forced to miss due to closures. Season > changes and weather conditions mean that most thruhikers will likely not > have that option, even if the closed sections reopen during that continuous > 12 months. > > And lest we forget, it is illegal to enter the USA from Canada on the PCT, > so most thru-hikers will need to yo-yo the 30 miles from Harts Pass to the > Canadian border, unless they have the Canadian entry permit. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of marmot > marmot > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 5:00 PM > To: Susan Virnig; pct-l @backcountry.net > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 6 > > At least when someone says they are section hiking the trails I know when > they are finished they actually did it. > > I don't care if someone yellow blazes. I don't care what they do. > > Being proud of the miles you have hiked is understandable. Just don't claim > a finishing certificate/Metal. And Please do not show up at the Gathering as > one woman and one man have done and receive a Triple Crown Plaque. > > Marmot > > From rod at rodmiller.com Fri Jun 22 12:13:04 2018 From: rod at rodmiller.com (Rod Miller) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:13:04 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] PCT Through Mt. Jefferson in OR? Message-ID: <1ad2c3cb-0799-2b90-d7fe-3e32ac2cb339@rodmiller.com> I'd like to hike a portion of the PCT past Mt. Jefferson. This will be in about 3 weeks. I'm wondering if someone can describe typical conditions (snow, mosquitoes) for mid-July after a moderate snow winter. Thanks! -- Rod Miller Handcraftsman === Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale/S Scale West/Narrow Gauge West Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2019 O Scale National Convention http://www.rodmiller.com | 2019 Dates Are May 23 - 25 | http://www.oscalewest.com From pctpanama at aol.com Fri Jun 22 14:01:57 2018 From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:01:57 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards Message-ID: <9EC3B58B-4629-4CA2-B001-474EB90B7264@aol.com> Maybe I should apply for a award and plaque knowing I haven?t completed the trail. Under the name. ? liar liar pants on fire?. Lol. I sincerely think there should be different degrees of awards.. section over a period of years, through hike skipping, total through hike every square inch, and Triple Crown every square inch... I remember seeing a video of Yogi saying ?. There?s no one out there that hasn?t skipped a section of the trail in a season?. No offense to anyone, but if that?s true no one has ever completed the trail in a season. Be nice if there?s a special award for those that have.. hey, I have an idea???? We need a special PCT app that will monitor and verify. Also have a question to the group... Why when I post something is the punctuation all Screwed up with ???????? everywhere? "Sent from my iPhone" Brian From pctl at oakapple.net Fri Jun 22 14:54:21 2018 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards Message-ID: <201806221954.w5MJsLhl017872@server-f.oakapple.net> So over 13 years, I've done almost all the PCT official and hiker alternates, excepting * the equestrian route through Sulphur Springs campground, which probably doesn't exist any more; * the bit of the Eagle Creek alternate between Wahtum Lake and the Indian Mountain trail; * the Angeles NF part of the official route that's been closed to protect the frogs for many years (so it's time to change the official route?) So what? With luck I could get my family and friends to listen for about five minutes. Much more interesting would be the story of somebody who got through the High Sierra safely, early in a high snow year, even if they got burned out of Mt Jefferson and Columbia Gorge. So what should ALDHA-West do? One approach would be to give up on giving certificates for unverified completion, and instead invite anybody who claims completion to give a five minute talk on the high points and low points and what they learned. Then the speakers get a certificate that they gave a presentation at ALDHA-W (which is verified) without implying endorsment of all their claims. Of course, anybody who has credibly done something really new and different and interesting is likely to be invited to give a longer presentation, since that's always been about 80% of the talks at ALDHA-W. In my off-trail life, I attend professional conferences which have invited keynote presentations, referreed contributed presentations, and poster sessions for anybody who thinks they have something interesting to communicate. That has the advantage that the other attendees can spend as much or as little time on each poster as they think worthwhile. But ultimately it hardly matters. One's hiking achievements, whether they are truthful or exaggerated, do not figure in academic tenure decisions or matter much to an audience much larger than ALDHA-W members. Of course an organization like ALDHA-W or PCTA could issue a booklet to hikers that they could get stamped at trail angels and trail town businesses. That's like the Camino de Santiago. A completed one would be about as credible as any other certificate. It wouldn't prove you hiked between the stamped points, but it would be a nice souvenir. http://camino.oakapple.net/photo/es/coruna/2003-06-22-paper/ From egger888 at gmail.com Fri Jun 22 15:36:59 2018 From: egger888 at gmail.com (Rachel Egger) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:36:59 -0500 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me explain. I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or trespassing on private land to walk around closures. I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. -Do-Over, PCT '17 (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) From randy_forsland at hotmail.com Fri Jun 22 16:58:05 2018 From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:58:05 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system... ________________________________ From: Pct-L on behalf of Rachel Egger Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Hello all, Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me explain. I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or trespassing on private land to walk around closures. I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. -Do-Over, PCT '17 (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists mailman.backcountry.net To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From tanguero.rubio at gmail.com Fri Jun 22 17:21:39 2018 From: tanguero.rubio at gmail.com (Tanguero Rubio) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:21:39 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] This is just a test, please ignore Message-ID: Lorem ipsum dolor amet quinoa succulents authentic humblebrag viral tote bag. Shoreditch migas succulents, bitters semiotics offal cornhole pitchfork affogato jean shorts waistcoat mumblecore. Pabst stumptown enamel pin pok pok. Scenester keffiyeh bicycle rights flannel dreamcatcher yr food truck selvage banjo pabst. Umami live-edge narwhal pour-over actually, pork belly banjo drinking vinegar kale chips vaporware glossier jean shorts tacos forage fashion axe. Hella bitters yr, taxidermy adaptogen sartorial glossier mlkshk hashtag irony VHS readymade ramps. Jianbing tofu bitters, vice succulents hot chicken street art asymmetrical keytar gentrify chartreuse chicharrones food truck. From gary at hbfun.org Fri Jun 22 20:09:00 2018 From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:09:00 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards In-Reply-To: <9EC3B58B-4629-4CA2-B001-474EB90B7264@aol.com> References: <9EC3B58B-4629-4CA2-B001-474EB90B7264@aol.com> Message-ID: <22dcc4c011e08e745ca92ecfd8110489.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com> We'll get the PCT to issue a GPS ankle bracelet with each permit. On Fri, June 22, 2018 12:01 pm, Brian Gill wrote: > Maybe I should apply for a award and plaque knowing I haven?t completed > the trail. Under the name. ? liar liar pants on fire?. Lol. I > sincerely think there should be different degrees of awards.. section > over a period of years, through hike skipping, total through hike every > square inch, and Triple Crown every square inch... I remember seeing a > video of Yogi saying ?. There?s no one out there that hasn?t skipped a > section of the trail in a season?. No offense to anyone, but if that?s > true no one has ever completed the trail in a season. Be nice if > there?s a special award for those that have.. hey, I have an idea???? > We need a special PCT app that will monitor and verify. Also have a > question to the group... Why when I post something is the punctuation > all Screwed up with ???????? everywhere? From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Sat Jun 23 08:12:47 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 13:12:47 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: Every time this is talked about people miss the point. No one is dismissing any hike. Each year there are challenges. Sometimes a particular year is so difficult that some hikers have to return and hike the parts that were closed. Once again --that is part of what we do. It is so sad and disappointing when you cannot do the hike you imagined. But it can sometimes be reality. I remember in Cindy Ross' book (87?) PCT---she called it finishing her thru-hike. She did it over two years. That's why the phase MYTH exists. I can't imagine anyone ranking or being disrespectful of the choices people make out there. It's just not a finished hike (continuous footpath) unless it is. It has alway included reasonable alternatives. The TC states that. Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Randy Forsland wrote: > > Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pct-L on behalf of Rachel Egger > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM > To: pct-l at backcountry.net > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 > > Hello all, > > Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I > have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me > explain. > > I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be > accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just > semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in > 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended > to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not > thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance > between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide > they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, > that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate > the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking > community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable > alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple > crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for > personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" > on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or > trespassing on private land to walk around closures. > > I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what > you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of > thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against > perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were > victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the > face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't > mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who > weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people > need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a > better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem > created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail > post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) > > Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a > world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. > > -Do-Over, PCT '17 > (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the > sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the > fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists > mailman.backcountry.net > To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. > > > > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Sat Jun 23 09:11:53 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:11:53 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 In-Reply-To: References: , , , Message-ID: Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: marmot marmot > Date: June 23, 2018 at 9:12:47 AM EDT To: Randy Forsland > Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Every time this is talked about people miss the point. No one is dismissing any hike. Each year there are challenges. Sometimes a particular year is so difficult that some hikers have to return and hike the parts that were closed. Once again --that is part of what we do. It is so sad and disappointing when you cannot do the hike you imagined. But it can sometimes be reality. I remember in Cindy Ross' book (87?) PCT---she called it finishing her thru-hike. She did it over two years. That's why the phase MYTH exists. I can't imagine anyone ranking or being disrespectful of the choices people make out there. It's just not a finished hike (continuous footpath) unless it is. It has alway included reasonable alternatives. The TC states that. Marmot Sent from my iPhone On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Randy Forsland > wrote: Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system... ________________________________ From: Pct-L > on behalf of Rachel Egger > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Hello all, Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me explain. I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or trespassing on private land to walk around closures. I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. -Do-Over, PCT '17 (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists mailman.backcountry.net To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From dnovo at ymail.com Sun Jun 24 12:30:52 2018 From: dnovo at ymail.com (Dave Novo) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 17:30:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <585750066.1536780.1529861452279@mail.yahoo.com> So basically that's what this has all come down to?? To get a certificate or some kind of award for thru hiking the AT or the PCT?? I would argue that anyone out there doing it for an award or some kind of certificate shouldn't be out there in the first place.? The hike in and of itself is its own reward.? I've always thought thru hikers were people who thru hiked for the love of it and the way I see it you shouldn't need a pat on the back for something you love to do.?? It's not a profession or a job, or an academic achievement and now you want a reward for something that done or claimed to have been done thousands of time.? If your looking for some kind of award I think you should reevaluate your reason for thru hiking. Dave On Saturday, June 23, 2018, 10:00:06 AM PDT, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote: Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to ??? pct-l at backcountry.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? pct-l-request at backcountry.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? pct-l-owner at backcountry.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply Today's Topics: ? 1. PCT Through Mt. Jefferson in OR? (Rod Miller) ? 2. PCT medal and awards (Brian Gill) ? 3. Re: PCT medal and awards (David Hough reading PCT-L) ? 4. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (Rachel Egger) ? 5. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (Randy Forsland) ? 6. This is just a test, please ignore (Tanguero Rubio) ? 7. Re: PCT medal and awards (Gary Schenk) ? 8. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (marmot marmot) ? 9. Fwd:? Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 (marmot marmot) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 10:13:04 -0700 From: Rod Miller To: Pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] PCT Through Mt. Jefferson in OR? Message-ID: <1ad2c3cb-0799-2b90-d7fe-3e32ac2cb339 at rodmiller.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I'd like to hike a portion of the PCT past Mt. Jefferson. This will be in about 3 weeks. I'm wondering if someone can describe typical conditions (snow, mosquitoes) for mid-July after a moderate snow winter. Thanks! -- Rod Miller Handcraftsman === Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, |? O Scale/S Scale West/Narrow Gauge West Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More? ? |? 2019 O Scale National Convention http://www.rodmiller.com ? ? ? ? ? ? |? 2019 Dates Are May 23 - 25 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? |? http://www.oscalewest.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:01:57 -0700 From: Brian Gill To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards Message-ID: <9EC3B58B-4629-4CA2-B001-474EB90B7264 at aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain;??? charset=utf-8 ? Maybe I should apply for a award and plaque knowing I haven?t completed the trail.? ? Under the name. ? liar liar pants on fire?.? Lol.? ? I sincerely think there should be different degrees of awards.. section over a period of years, through hike skipping, total through hike every square inch, and Triple Crown every square inch...? I remember seeing a video of Yogi saying ?. There?s no one out there that hasn?t skipped a section of the trail in a season?.? No offense to anyone, but if that?s true no one has ever completed the trail in a season.? Be nice if there?s a special award for those that have..? hey, I have an idea???? We need a special PCT app that will monitor and verify.? Also have a question to the group... Why when I post something is the punctuation all Screwed up with? ????????? everywhere? "Sent from my iPhone" ? ? ? Brian ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 12:54:21 -0700 (PDT) From: David Hough reading PCT-L To: pct-l at backcountry.net, pctpanama at aol.com Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards Message-ID: <201806221954.w5MJsLhl017872 at server-f.oakapple.net> So over 13 years, I've done almost all the PCT official and hiker alternates, excepting * the equestrian route through Sulphur Springs campground, which probably doesn't exist any more; * the bit of the Eagle Creek alternate between Wahtum Lake and the Indian Mountain trail; * the Angeles NF part of the official route that's been closed to protect the frogs for many years (so it's time to change the official route?) So what?? With luck I could get my family and friends to listen for about five minutes.? ? Much more interesting would be the story of somebody who got through the High Sierra safely, early in a high snow year, even if they got burned out of Mt Jefferson and Columbia Gorge. So what should ALDHA-West do?? ? One approach would be to give up on giving certificates for unverified completion, and instead invite anybody who claims completion to give a five minute talk on the high points and low points and what they learned.? ? Then the speakers get a certificate that they gave a presentation at ALDHA-W (which is verified) without implying endorsment of all their claims. Of course, anybody who has credibly done something really new and different and interesting is likely to be invited to give a longer presentation, since that's always been about 80% of the talks at ALDHA-W. In my off-trail life, I attend professional conferences which have invited keynote presentations, referreed contributed presentations, and poster sessions for anybody who thinks they have something interesting to communicate.? ? That has the advantage that the other attendees can spend as much or as little time on each poster as they think worthwhile. But ultimately it hardly matters.? ? One's hiking achievements, whether they are truthful or exaggerated, do not figure in academic tenure decisions or matter much to an audience much larger than ALDHA-W members. Of course an organization like ALDHA-W or PCTA could issue a booklet to hikers that they could get stamped at trail angels and trail town businesses.? ? That's like the Camino de Santiago.? ? A completed one would be about as credible as any other certificate. It wouldn't prove you hiked between the stamped points, but it would be a nice souvenir. http://camino.oakapple.net/photo/es/coruna/2003-06-22-paper/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:36:59 -0500 From: Rachel Egger To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello all, Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me explain. I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or trespassing on private land to walk around closures. I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. -Do-Over, PCT '17 (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 21:58:05 +0000 From: Randy Forsland To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Message-ID: ??? ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system... ________________________________ From: Pct-L on behalf of Rachel Egger Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Hello all, Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me explain. I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or trespassing on private land to walk around closures. I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. -Do-Over, PCT '17 (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists mailman.backcountry.net To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 15:21:39 -0700 From: Tanguero Rubio To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] This is just a test, please ignore Message-ID: ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Lorem ipsum dolor amet quinoa succulents authentic humblebrag viral tote bag. Shoreditch migas succulents, bitters semiotics offal cornhole pitchfork affogato jean shorts waistcoat mumblecore. Pabst stumptown enamel pin pok pok. Scenester keffiyeh bicycle rights flannel dreamcatcher yr food truck selvage banjo pabst. Umami live-edge narwhal pour-over actually, pork belly banjo drinking vinegar kale chips vaporware glossier jean shorts tacos forage fashion axe. Hella bitters yr, taxidermy adaptogen sartorial glossier mlkshk hashtag irony VHS readymade ramps. Jianbing tofu bitters, vice succulents hot chicken street art asymmetrical keytar gentrify chartreuse chicharrones food truck. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:09:00 -0700 From: "Gary Schenk" To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT medal and awards Message-ID: ??? <22dcc4c011e08e745ca92ecfd8110489.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 We'll get the PCT to issue a GPS ankle bracelet with each permit. On Fri, June 22, 2018 12:01 pm, Brian Gill wrote: >? Maybe I should apply for a award and plaque knowing I haven?t completed > the trail.? ? Under the name. ? liar liar pants on fire?.? Lol.? ? I > sincerely think there should be different degrees of awards.. section > over a period of years, through hike skipping, total through hike every > square inch, and Triple Crown every square inch...? I remember seeing a > video of Yogi saying ?. There?s no one out there that hasn?t skipped a > section of the trail in a season?.? No offense to anyone, but if that?s > true no one has ever completed the trail in a season.? Be nice if > there?s a special award for those that have..? hey, I have an idea???? > We need a special PCT app that will monitor and verify.? Also have a > question to the group... Why when I post something is the punctuation > all Screwed up with? ????????? everywhere? ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 13:12:47 +0000 From: marmot marmot To: Randy Forsland Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Message-ID: ??? ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Every time this is talked about people miss the point. No one is dismissing any hike. Each year there are challenges. Sometimes a particular year is so difficult that some hikers have to return and hike the parts that were closed. Once again --that is part of what we do. It is so sad and disappointing when you cannot do the hike you imagined. But it can sometimes be reality. I remember in Cindy Ross' book (87?) PCT---she called it finishing her thru-hike. She did it over two years. That's why the phase MYTH exists. I can't imagine anyone ranking or being disrespectful of the choices people make out there. It's just not a finished hike (continuous footpath) unless it is. It has alway included reasonable alternatives. The TC states that. Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Randy Forsland wrote: > > Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system... > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Pct-L on behalf of Rachel Egger > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM > To: pct-l at backcountry.net > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 > > Hello all, > > Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I > have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me > explain. > > I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be > accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just > semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in > 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended > to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not > thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance > between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide > they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, > that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate > the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking > community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable > alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple > crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for > personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" > on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or > trespassing on private land to walk around closures. > > I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what > you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of > thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against > perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were > victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the > face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't > mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who > weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people > need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a > better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem > created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail > post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) > > Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a > world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. > > -Do-Over, PCT '17 > (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the > sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the > fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists > mailman.backcountry.net > To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. > > > > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2018 14:11:53 +0000 From: marmot marmot To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" Subject: [pct-l] Fwd:? Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Message-ID: ??? ??? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: marmot marmot > Date: June 23, 2018 at 9:12:47 AM EDT To: Randy Forsland > Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Every time this is talked about people miss the point. No one is dismissing any hike. Each year there are challenges. Sometimes a particular year is so difficult that some hikers have to return and hike the parts that were closed. Once again --that is part of what we do. It is so sad and disappointing when you cannot do the hike you imagined. But it can sometimes be reality. I remember in Cindy Ross' book (87?) PCT---she called it finishing her thru-hike. She did it over two years. That's why the phase MYTH exists. I can't imagine anyone ranking or being disrespectful of the choices people make out there. It's just not a finished hike (continuous footpath) unless it is. It has alway included reasonable alternatives. The TC states that. Marmot Sent from my iPhone On Jun 22, 2018, at 5:58 PM, Randy Forsland > wrote: Well said...that was my main beef. Listening to some of last year's hikers bash others was hard to hear. That was the reason that I was hoping that the PCTA had officially defined a thru-hike as the entire trail that was open to hiking that particular year...I was a thru-hiker in 2003, but could not finish due to injuries..I did go back over the next 5 years to complete my hike before filing for a certificate. None of my fellow 2003 classmates ever thought any less of me....I would hope that the bond and comraderie of thruhikers doesn't devolve into a ranking system... ________________________________ From: Pct-L > on behalf of Rachel Egger > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 1:36 PM To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 7 Hello all, Long-time lurker on the list, and a member of PCT classes 2016 and 2017. I have not completed the trail, but I was a thru-hiker in 2017; let me explain. I completely agree that no one who hasn't finished the trail should be accepting completion awards, but much of the rest of this issue is just semantics between hikers. There was an aggressive attitude on the trail in 2017 that anyone who skipped any part of the Sierra, (whether they intended to flip or come back in a more favorable year was irrelevant), was not thru-hiking. In my book, anyone who sets out intending to walk the distance between borders is a thru-hiker, and finishes their hike when they decide they can no longer continue that season, for any reason. In most cases, that "finish" is not actually trail completion, but that shouldn't negate the experience of a long-distance thru-hike or belonging to the hiking community. Self-proclaimed "purists" who refuse to accept reasonable alternates (which are part of ALDHA-West's definition for the triple crown), or who shame other hikers who made choices to skip sections for personal safety, are part of the problem. The phrase "continuous footpath" on trail is often invoked to justify walking through wildfire closures, or trespassing on private land to walk around closures. I think we're all on the same page really, i.e. just be honest about what you did or did not do. But we don't have 6 words for the variety of thru-hike any one person completed, and I think the backlash against perceived non-traditional thru hikes has frustrated a lot of folks who were victims of circumstance. This causes them to decide to just round up in the face of a lot of trash-talk about the personal choices they made. I don't mean to excuse that behavior, only to add a little context for folks who weren't on the PCT in 2017. It's disappointing not to hit 100%, and people need to learn to cope with that, but the community at-large could also do a better job of accepting hikers who missed the mark. (Is that a problem created by the young people like myself who happened to come to trail post-Wild? Meh, maybe.) Anywho, thanks for listening. I appreciate that pct-l still exists in a world where the Facebook group is often too noisy. -Do-Over, PCT '17 (For the record: 2200 miles done and a few more to go. I skipped the sections in fire closures and flip-flopped back for half the Sierra in the fall to avoid 2017's lethal peak-melt.) _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l Pct-L Info Page - mailman.backcountry.net Mailing Lists mailman.backcountry.net To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net. List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. ------------------------------ End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8 ************************************* From iceaxehikes at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 12:12:33 2018 From: iceaxehikes at gmail.com (Matthew Edwards) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 11:12:33 -0600 Subject: [pct-l] (no subject) Message-ID: "So basically that's what this has all come down to?? To get a certificate or some kind of award for thru hiking the AT or the PCT?? I would argue that anyone out there doing it for an award or some kind of certificate shouldn't be out there in the first place.? The hike in and of itself is its own reward.? I've always thought thru hikers were people who thru hiked for the love of it and the way I see it you shouldn't need a pat on the back for something you love to do.?? It's not a profession or a job, or an academic achievement ", Dave You know Dave, I did not put in for the Triple Crown Award even though I did achieve that feat. Against closures on the CDT too. You make a good point. Those were my reasons too. But years on.. I wish I could have gone to that ceremony in Washington state. Shake Yogi's hand, see Billygoat, comiserate with trail buddies. It is like a funeral; not for the dead, but for the survivors. Big hugs to everyone. In a good place now 9 years from the days in the Sierra south of Tahoe along the PCT. Still hurts a bit to talk about that beautiful life. The possibilities I realized for myself. The pain I felt for myself and those that fell down along the way. The gratitude for generosity I can never repay, even if I try, to those that helped me. I am still completely screwed up from the trail. Don't carry a fully loaded pack with "going to Canada gear" anymore. But the trail haunts my life in good and bad ways everyday. I say; go get that award. If I had the money at the time, and had conquered my reservations about it. I'd have that award. But more importantly; the chance to thank a small group of folks that helped me. -iceaxe From irishharmon at comcast.net Mon Jun 25 12:41:16 2018 From: irishharmon at comcast.net (Diarmaid Harmon) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 18:41:16 +0100 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave. Well said I couldn?t agree more. When I hiked my hike I did it because it was something I wanted to achieve. The only people that I cared for knew of my achievement. No award or official recognition or lack there of changes what and when I did on my hike. Did I complete the trail ? I left the southern terminus and in one single trip ended at the northern terminus. As far as I am concerned I hiked the PCT. Irish. Mistyped and autocorrected by my iPhone > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 17:30:52 +0000 (UTC) > From: Dave Novo > To: > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 8 > Message-ID: <585750066.1536780.1529861452279 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > So basically that's what this has all come down to?? To get a certificate or some kind of award for thru hiking the AT or the PCT?? I would argue that anyone out there doing it for an award or some kind of certificate shouldn't be out there in the first place.? The hike in and of itself is its own reward.? I've always thought thru hikers were people who thru hiked for the love of it and the way I see it you shouldn't need a pat on the back for something you love to do.?? It's not a profession or a job, or an academic achievement and now you want a reward for something that done or claimed to have been done thousands of time.? If your looking for some kind of award I think you should reevaluate your reason for thru hiking. > Dave > > > > From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Mon Jun 25 16:36:09 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 21:36:09 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Iceaxe Please write up your stories of your TC and send them off to the TC committee. Years after people hike the trails some hikers are still getting their plaques. I personally love reading each hikers accounts of their hikes. I would really like to see you turn up this year or any year at the Gathering Originally Alice Gmuer,Steve Queen,Ray and Jenny Jardine were given the first plaques in '93. But, each year people apply who have hiked the trails years and years ago. Come to the Gathering and allow us all to cheer and congratulate you. That is what the event is every year. I mean it when I say I cry every year. It touches my heart to hear each story. It is a "Gathering" of people who love being out there for month after month. Each story I hear adds to the bonding. It's walking cold,hurt,lost and finding the strength to do that ,not for an award,(I wouldn't walk across the street for that) but because you just love being out there. All this talk about doing it for the award, I find confusing. Not many people I know do that. They hike the trails for the same reason they always have---to be where they want to be--in the wilderness. I only ask people each year not to claim to have done the whole trail,if you did not, because I'm finding out in the changing trail culture, many hikers are claiming the whole trail without a continuous footpath. They yellow blaze whenever they miss their friends or run out of money or a road walk feels too hard. All of that is difficult and anyone can make any choice they want. But then they have to take responsibility for the choice. Each year many people have to have shortened or stopped hikes for multiple reasons. But in the past few would have thought it acceptable to then claim that they had finished. Some times hiking the trail is just impossible. (That's why I talk about how sad and painful it is when you chose a year that is especially difficult). I have two trails that are unfinished and probably always will be. Everyone who doesn't tell the truth about their hike is probably well known. But the PCT and Aldawest are not aware of a hiker is not telling the truth. They have not seen it. If I had not heard of and seen multiple incidents of this behavior over the last few years---I would not know. Actually the hikers write about it themselves in their on-line blogs. I read them when I'm stuck in town. It is publicly documented but would take more people to monitor the yellow blazing than any of the organizations has the time or energy. So I'm appealing to their sense of honor. Someone said that Yogi said no one does every step of the trails. What she was talking about was having to take alternatives ---not hitch hiking and skipping sections of the trail. I can't imagine her ever yellow blazing. She is an honorable person. See you at the Gathering I hope Marmot Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 25, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Matthew Edwards wrote: > > "So basically that's what this has all come down to?? To get a certificate > or some kind of award for thru hiking the AT or the PCT?? I would argue > that anyone out there doing it for an award or some kind of certificate > shouldn't be out there in the first place.? The hike in and of itself is > its own reward.? I've always thought thru hikers were people who thru hiked > for the love of it and the way I see it you shouldn't need a pat on the > back for something you love to do.?? It's not a profession or a job, or an > academic achievement ", Dave > > You know Dave, > I did not put in for the Triple Crown Award even though I did achieve that > feat. > Against closures on the CDT too. > You make a good point. > Those were my reasons too. > > But years on.. > I wish I could have gone to that ceremony in Washington state. > Shake Yogi's hand, see Billygoat, comiserate with trail buddies. > It is like a funeral; not for the dead, but for the survivors. > Big hugs to everyone. > In a good place now 9 years from the days in the Sierra south of Tahoe > along the PCT. > Still hurts a bit to talk about that beautiful life. > The possibilities I realized for myself. > The pain I felt for myself and those that fell down along the way. > The gratitude for generosity I can never repay, even if I try, to those > that helped me. > > I am still completely screwed up from the trail. > Don't carry a fully loaded pack with "going to Canada gear" anymore. > But the trail haunts my life in good and bad ways everyday. > I say; go get that award. > If I had the money at the time, and had conquered my reservations about it. > I'd have that award. > But more importantly; the chance to thank a small group of folks that > helped me. > -iceaxe > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com Mon Jun 25 18:02:18 2018 From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 23:02:18 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: (no subject) In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Sent from my iPhone Begin forwarded message: From: marmot marmot > Date: June 25, 2018 at 5:36:09 PM EDT To: Matthew Edwards >, "pct-l @backcountry.net" > Subject: Re: [pct-l] (no subject) Dear Iceaxe Please write up your stories of your TC and send them off to the TC committee. Years after people hike the trails some hikers are still getting their plaques. I personally love reading each hikers accounts of their hikes. I would really like to see you turn up this year or any year at the Gathering Originally Alice Gmuer,Steve Queen,Ray and Jenny Jardine were given the first plaques in '93. But, each year people apply who have hiked the trails years and years ago. Come to the Gathering and allow us all to cheer and congratulate you. That is what the event is every year. I mean it when I say I cry every year. It touches my heart to hear each story. It is a "Gathering" of people who love being out there for month after month. Each story I hear adds to the bonding. It's walking cold,hurt,lost and finding the strength to do that ,not for an award,(I wouldn't walk across the street for that) but because you just love being out there. All this talk about doing it for the award, I find confusing. Not many people I know do that. They hike the trails for the same reason they always have---to be where they want to be--in the wilderness. I only ask people each year not to claim to have done the whole trail,if you did not, because I'm finding out in the changing trail culture, many hikers are claiming the whole trail without a continuous footpath. They yellow blaze whenever they miss their friends or run out of money or a road walk feels too hard. All of that is difficult and anyone can make any choice they want. But then they have to take responsibility for the choice. Each year many people have to have shortened or stopped hikes for multiple reasons. But in the past few would have thought it acceptable to then claim that they had finished. Some times hiking the trail is just impossible. (That's why I talk about how sad and painful it is when you chose a year that is especially difficult). I have two trails that are unfinished and probably always will be. Everyone who doesn't tell the truth about their hike is probably well known. But the PCT and Aldawest are not aware of a hiker is not telling the truth. They have not seen it. If I had not heard of and seen multiple incidents of this behavior over the last few years---I would not know. Actually the hikers write about it themselves in their on-line blogs. I read them when I'm stuck in town. It is publicly documented but would take more people to monitor the yellow blazing than any of the organizations has the time or energy. So I'm appealing to their sense of honor. Someone said that Yogi said no one does every step of the trails. What she was talking about was having to take alternatives ---not hitch hiking and skipping sections of the trail. I can't imagine her ever yellow blazing. She is an honorable person. See you at the Gathering I hope Marmot Sent from my iPhone On Jun 25, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Matthew Edwards > wrote: "So basically that's what this has all come down to?? To get a certificate or some kind of award for thru hiking the AT or the PCT?? I would argue that anyone out there doing it for an award or some kind of certificate shouldn't be out there in the first place.? The hike in and of itself is its own reward.? I've always thought thru hikers were people who thru hiked for the love of it and the way I see it you shouldn't need a pat on the back for something you love to do.?? It's not a profession or a job, or an academic achievement ", Dave You know Dave, I did not put in for the Triple Crown Award even though I did achieve that feat. Against closures on the CDT too. You make a good point. Those were my reasons too. But years on.. I wish I could have gone to that ceremony in Washington state. Shake Yogi's hand, see Billygoat, comiserate with trail buddies. It is like a funeral; not for the dead, but for the survivors. Big hugs to everyone. In a good place now 9 years from the days in the Sierra south of Tahoe along the PCT. Still hurts a bit to talk about that beautiful life. The possibilities I realized for myself. The pain I felt for myself and those that fell down along the way. The gratitude for generosity I can never repay, even if I try, to those that helped me. I am still completely screwed up from the trail. Don't carry a fully loaded pack with "going to Canada gear" anymore. But the trail haunts my life in good and bad ways everyday. I say; go get that award. If I had the money at the time, and had conquered my reservations about it. I'd have that award. But more importantly; the chance to thank a small group of folks that helped me. -iceaxe _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From pctl at marcusschwartz.com Tue Jun 26 00:24:32 2018 From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:24:32 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Old PCT Bandanas Message-ID: <07eac942-2a06-2ddf-39ba-df58088032b7@marcusschwartz.com> Does anybody know of a source for non-current PCT bandanas? I hiked in 2016, but Yogi's site only carries 2017, 2014, 2011, 2010, and 2007. -=Marcus From sue.kettles at comcast.net Thu Jun 28 21:54:27 2018 From: sue.kettles at comcast.net (Sue) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 19:54:27 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anyone in Bishop Ca that is heading to Reno Friday June 29th? PCT thru hiker needs a ride to Reno Airport tomorrow later afternoon....at airport by 6:30. Sierra transit only buses at 7:30 A.M. Happy to pay for gas. From pctl at oakapple.net Fri Jun 29 09:18:41 2018 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 07:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [pct-l] Section M/N status Message-ID: <201806291418.w5TEIf4R002215@server-f.oakapple.net> I was thinking of filling in a missing section from Quincy-LaPorte road to Humbug Summit, crossing the Middle Fork Feather River canyon in relatively cool weather next week. On the PCTA website, there are several old reports of problems of trees and brush and slippery tread, presumably resolved now, and a current report about Little Lasier camp which presumably should have been posted under section L instead of M. So does anybody have current information about adverse conditions in the Feather River-Bucks Lake-Belden-Chips Creek-Humbug areas? From susanvirnig at gmail.com Fri Jun 29 10:56:55 2018 From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:56:55 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Section M/N status In-Reply-To: <201806291418.w5TEIf4R002215@server-f.oakapple.net> References: <201806291418.w5TEIf4R002215@server-f.oakapple.net> Message-ID: Let me piggyback on this request. I?m planning to fill in some missing miles from Frog Mountain north to Drakesbad. (Turned back a year ago June with dicey snow conditions ? hadn?t brought microspikes.) So I just overlap 5 miles with David?s hike (below), which I?ve already done. Two main questions ? first is how to most easily get up there, and second is current trail conditions. Roads to the PCT ? can a passenger car get up any of these and any guesses as to road (snow/mud) conditions mid-July? 1. Road 26N74 is very close to Frog Mt. which would be great. 2. 26N02 appears to go right to the PCT & would require backtracking only 4 miles. 2. With backtracking 5 miles, Humbug Road 27N01 goes up to Cold Springs Camp. 3. With backtracking 12 miles, Humboldt Road goes up to Humboldt Summit. I?m coming down from Spokane just to fill in this small gap ? already hiked 1700 PCT miles ? so I?d prefer less backtracking but I need to get up there however I can. Also, does anyone know of a trail angel in that area that I could pay for a ride up one of these roads? Second question is trail conditions ? wouldn?t be coming until about July 20. Any idea about trail conditions? Thanks much for any help ? so appreciate the PCT-L. ?Sunshine/Susan from Spokane > On Jun 29, 2018, at 7:18 AM, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote: > > > I was thinking of filling in a missing section from Quincy-LaPorte road > to Humbug Summit, crossing the Middle Fork Feather River canyon in > relatively cool weather next week. > > On the PCTA website, > there are several old reports of problems of trees and brush and slippery > tread, presumably resolved now, and a current report about Little Lasier > camp which presumably should have been posted under section L instead of M. > > So does anybody have current information about adverse conditions > in the Feather River-Bucks Lake-Belden-Chips Creek-Humbug areas? > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.