From ken at morethanamile.com  Sun Apr  1 03:33:24 2018
From: ken at morethanamile.com (Ken Roberts)
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2018 08:33:24 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Kennedy Meadows
Message-ID: <MWHPR1101MB2157656B958E69AB43CFF403BFA70@MWHPR1101MB2157.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

With any luck, I am going to be walking through here early June. It looks like there are two options regarding resupply, the Kennedy Meadows Store and Grumpy Bears Retreat. The Store is near the trail and the Retreat is down the road requiring a quick ride. Any thoughts as to sending a package to one place or the other?
Thanks,
Ken R.

From reddirt23 at att.net  Mon Apr  2 09:48:47 2018
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 07:48:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kennedy Meadows
Message-ID: <9E61A36E-7244-4A27-A331-AE697A0615B4@att.net>

Kennedy Meadows General Store may be under new management this season.  And Grumpy Bear is supposedly increasing their Hiker amenities like showers laundry camping .  Not sure about hiker resupply pick ups.  I am not sure at this time how far along Scott got with these new additions to Grumpy.  I would recommend look 'em up on the internet, and or give them a call.  They should both be open by now at least on the weekends 

From john at johnjoyner.com  Mon Apr  2 09:34:58 2018
From: john at johnjoyner.com (John Joyner)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 10:34:58 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Kennedy Meadows
In-Reply-To: <9E61A36E-7244-4A27-A331-AE697A0615B4@att.net>
References: <9E61A36E-7244-4A27-A331-AE697A0615B4@att.net>
Message-ID: <655f4714-272a-3269-f6f6-b663e8b534f4@johnjoyner.com>

On 04/02/2018 10:48 AM, Stephen Adams wrote:
>   I would recommend look 'em up on the internet
And their website url is:
http://www.grumpybearsretreat.com/
-JJ

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Apr  3 15:21:26 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:21:26 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] BAMM class abstracts should be put online
In-Reply-To: <711C8043-EE9E-438A-A5BF-4AA143ED3D32@att.net>
References: <711C8043-EE9E-438A-A5BF-4AA143ED3D32@att.net>
Message-ID: <272801d3cb89$57ebddf0$07c399d0$@mountaineducation.org>

Sadly, Stephen, that observation is the norm despite years of warnings and
advice. I've been out there with my classes near Forester and watched other
thru hikers slip and fall and tumble down the slope with their ice axes
still strapped to their packs. 


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Stephen Adams
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2018 10:54 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] BAMM class abstracts should be put online

As a side note:  I met very few people at Kennedy Meadows last season
picking up snow gear there that had a reasonable clue what they were getting
into.  The most common response I received when asking if they knew how to
use an ice axe etc was something like they'd figure it out.  I don't even
remember seeing anyone with a leash or lanyard on their ice axe.  It seemed
kinda pahtetic

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From js3060 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 12:11:44 2018
From: js3060 at yahoo.com (Jon M Sturtevant)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 17:11:44 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Burney Falls to Castle Crag
References: <302059470.1688840.1522861904231.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <302059470.1688840.1522861904231@mail.yahoo.com>

Does anyone have information about current trail conditions on the Burney Falls to Castle Crag state parks section? ?Guide books suggest it may be hikeable in May.
thx...jon

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Wed Apr  4 17:48:49 2018
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (Rob Langsdorf)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 22:48:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Last 300 miles Web Cams
In-Reply-To: <CALcsMcUrACDhnYGtqj7VvDcLwzgHxFyY2bNvEsTJU6jG7E4hpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALcsMcUrACDhnYGtqj7VvDcLwzgHxFyY2bNvEsTJU6jG7E4hpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <496767299.1723441.1522882129751@mail.yahoo.com>

 Oscar,
? ? ?One of the things you can do is to check web cams for various ski lifts along the way. If they are still showing lots of snow, you know that you should wait a week or so.
Here is the site for White Pass (Your Highway 12 starting point)Mountain Cams


| 
| 
|  | 
Mountain Cams


 |

 |

 |


The next resort north is Crystal Mountain
Weather & Conditions - Crystal Mountain Resort WA


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Weather & Conditions - Crystal Mountain Resort WA

Tips Up: (3/27/18 10:45 a.m.) Good morning skiers and snowboarders! The mountain received four inches of snow ...
 |

 |

 |


Then you come to Snoqualmie

Webcams | Summit at Snoqualmie


| 
| 
|  | 
Webcams | Summit at Snoqualmie

Live webcams at The Summit at Snoqualmie - cameras showing conditions for the Bottom of Alpental, mid-mountain A...
 |

 |

 |


Finally there is Steven's Pass
Stevens Pass Washington Ski Resort - Mountain Cams


| 
| 
| 
|  |  |

 |

 |
| 
|  | 
Stevens Pass Washington Ski Resort - Mountain Cams


 |

 |

 |



? ? IF the snow is gone from all these snow cam sites, you may still have higher patches to go through. When I hiked the trail north of Crater Lake back in 1988, we kept track of the snow on Mountain Bachelor for our start. We headed out about 8 July and still had our feet in at least a patch of snow for the first 10 days. From these sites it is clearly good skiing conditions at most of these slopes today.

? ? Have fun checking these sites,
? ? ? ? ? ?Mataguay Connector Rob


    On Tuesday, March 20, 2018, 2:49:53 PM PDT, Ikem Freeman <ikem.freeman at gmail.com> wrote:  
 
 O. (Oscar) Ikem SoFar, here. Hope everyone is doing well. I also really
hope that this will be the year that I finally finish the hike that I
started in '08. I have (give or take) about 300 miles to finish ... I left
off at Highway 12 in Washington.

Has anyone heard how the snow pack is shaping up this year? Lite, Normal,
heavy? I doubt heavy.

In a normal year, I've heard that you can't start a SB trek until July 1.
I'll be NB, but in the same neighborhood as the early SBers.

I'm living in Boise, Idaho now, so I'll likely hitch a ride to Washington,
head West on Highway 12 until I reach the PCT.

In past years, I've requested an entry permit from the fine folks in
Canada, with plans to hike to Hope, then West to Vancouver. I doubt I'll do
that this time. I'll go to the border, take my pictures, then turn around
and hike back to first major road. Is that about 30 miles or so of
back-track?

Good to see that this list is still running. I'll be honest ... I have not
checked it or posted here in a very long time.

O. Ikem SoFar, Class of '08
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From brick at brickrobbins.com  Thu Apr  5 22:03:30 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2018 20:03:30 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Beware: the pineapple express is bearing down on the PCT
Message-ID: <CALV1NznT0qya4ptt2Xwae=0YefsCRQZn0ZqAmA3rnWYyr9HL1w@mail.gmail.com>

Hitting hard this weekend according to:
https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2018/04/monster-late-season-atmospheric-river.html

How much precipitation will California and the Northwest get?  Here
are the precipitation totals for the next 8 days from the European
Center model (courtesy of weatherbell.com).

For California, we are talking about as much as 4-8 inches in terrain
and heavy amounts (over 2 inches) over much of central and northern
CA.  Remember April is typically a month that California dries out as
the jet stream usually moves north.

In the Northwest, we will get a piece of the action, with several
inches everywhere, but particularly heavy precipitation on the
Olympics and in southern BC.

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  6 11:43:39 2018
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (sdscpcts)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 09:43:39 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Beware: the pineapple express is bearing down on the PCT
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NznT0qya4ptt2Xwae=0YefsCRQZn0ZqAmA3rnWYyr9HL1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.1.1523033026.53966.pct-l@backcountry.net>

It looks like south of the Mojave this will be mainly a wind event with only a 20 percent chance of rain on Saturday. The SierraNevada will get a lot of precipitation. Which may mean a better snow pack.?
? ? ? ? ?Mataguay Connector Rob?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> Date: 4/5/18  8:03 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] Beware: the pineapple express is bearing down on the PCT 
Hitting hard this weekend according to:
https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2018/04/monster-late-season-atmospheric-river.html

How much precipitation will California and the Northwest get?? Here
are the precipitation totals for the next 8 days from the European
Center model (courtesy of weatherbell.com).

For California, we are talking about as much as 4-8 inches in terrain
and heavy amounts (over 2 inches) over much of central and northern
CA.? Remember April is typically a month that California dries out as
the jet stream usually moves north.

In the Northwest, we will get a piece of the action, with several
inches everywhere, but particularly heavy precipitation on the
Olympics and in southern BC.
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From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  6 15:58:22 2018
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:58:22 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] North Cascades Trail Skills College
References: <812400176.2621604.1523048302376.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <812400176.2621604.1523048302376@mail.yahoo.com>

The north Washington PCTA trail crew chapter, the North 350 Blades, has posted their entire list of classes for the North Cascades Trail Skills College.
The full list of classes is on the PCTA website at:

https://www.pcta.org/volunteer/trail-skills-college/north-cascades-trail-skills-college/

Or go to the PCTA web page, find the green "Volunteer" button, from there find the Trail Skills College link and then the North Cascades Trail Skills College link.

There are a range for courses for beginner, intermediate and advanced trail crew volunteers.

Beginner Classes:
103 Basic Saw Crew Training - April 21 at North Bend and June 23 at Rainy pass
100 / 101 / 102 - Intro to Trail Maintenance.? April 28 Snoqualmie Middle Fork near North Bend and July 21 south of Snoqualmie Pass
Introduction to Power Brushing - July 7 south of Snoqualmie Pass

Intermediate:
205 Tread Reconstruction - June 30 Smithbrook TH near Stevens Pass

Advanced:
Advanced Trail Reconstruction - April 28 Huckleberry Trail near Darrington
Puncheon Construction - May 12 Middle Fork near North Bend
200 Trail Design - July 7 Stevens Pass

Additionally, there are? saw certification at Darrington May 5-6 and North Bend June 2-3.? Note that North Bend is effectively full, as is the chainsaw initial certification track, so focus on the Darrington crosscut saw certification event if you are interested in pursuing a saw certification.

For sign up, go to the linked PCTA page and click the link for the class you are interested.? Sign up contact information is included with each course description.

From rgraybill44 at gmail.com  Fri Apr  6 23:06:02 2018
From: rgraybill44 at gmail.com (Ron Graybill)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:06:02 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking companion? Mile 168.7 SB to Mile 162.7?
Message-ID: <CAEnMNWUe465F29uyNHhNZNaR045hrhb1fDeNztmTuECYPKrAHg@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone interested in joining me to hike (at about 2 mph) the section of the
PCT opened last Nov, from Spitler Peak Trail down to Cedar Spring Trail?
This area had been closed since the Mountain Fire in 2013.

I propose to camp at Apple Canyon Campground on Apple Canyon Road just off
Highway 74, then get up at the crack of dawn and go up the road to the
Spitler Peak Trailhead, thence up that trail the 5 or 5 miles to the PCT at
Mile 168.7, thence southbound six miles to the Cedar Spring Trail at PCT
Mile 162.7, and down that trail to Girl Scout Camp Scherman on Morris Ranch
Road.

How I'll get back to my car at the Spitler Peak trailhead depends on
whether someone want to join me.

I may camp Saturday night, April 14, and hike Sunday April 15 (tax day!
but I've already filed.)


Ron Graybill
3290 E Yountville Dr., Unit 13
Ontario, CA  91761
909-910-9339

From gary at hbfun.org  Sun Apr  8 17:15:01 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 15:15:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Beware: the pineapple express is bearing down on the PCT
In-Reply-To: <20180406164346.8F6B81C4EFC@mailman.backcountry.net>
References: <20180406164346.8F6B81C4EFC@mailman.backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <fd3f6ea41eb83cdb1df3241194fd176e.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

On Fri, April 6, 2018 9:43 am, sdscpcts wrote:
> It looks like south of the Mojave this will be mainly a wind event with
> only a 20 percent chance of rain on Saturday. The SierraNevada will get a
> lot of precipitation. Which may mean a better snow pack.?

Did section F last week and there are at least five thruhikers heading
into the Sierra next week.

Gary

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sun Apr  8 18:42:33 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 16:42:33 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Beware: the pineapple express is bearing down on the PCT
In-Reply-To: <fd3f6ea41eb83cdb1df3241194fd176e.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>
References: <20180406164346.8F6B81C4EFC@mailman.backcountry.net>
 <fd3f6ea41eb83cdb1df3241194fd176e.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzmdVdGYTjhFAwfO-yjqKSLM8YUyiwYjgAvPk39bL62VVw@mail.gmail.com>

Nice video of flooding yesterday in Yosemite Valley
https://twitter.com/CarmenGeorge/status/982700855756406789

===
A large tropical storm dumped rain over Northern California, drenching
the Bay Area and causing some flooding in the Yosemite Valley and the
Lake Tahoe area Saturday.

The Merced River reached its flood stage at 8 a.m., according to the
National Weather Service. The storm that started Friday dropped more
than 3 inches of rain in the Yosemite Valley, said Brian Ochs, a
meteorologist with the weather service in Hanford.

The Merced River at the Pohono Bridge ? which was running at about 4
feet ahead of the storm ? hit 10 feet, which is when flooding occurs,
Ochs said. The river was expected to rise to 15 feet by late Saturday,
he said. The Merced River flooded last spring amid warm weather.

Yosemite Valley remained closed by the National Park Service on
Saturday due to the flooding. All overnight reservations were canceled
through Saturday night. Officials said they would reassess the
situation on Sunday.

more
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-nocal-storm-20180407-story.html

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 11 12:23:31 2018
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (sdscpcts)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:23:31 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking companion? Mile 168.7 SB to Mile 162.7?
In-Reply-To: <CAEnMNWUe465F29uyNHhNZNaR045hrhb1fDeNztmTuECYPKrAHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1523467421.53966.pct-l@backcountry.net>

Ron,?
? ? ?Another place where you could seek section hikers is the "PCTSection " in the ?Yahoo groups. But you probably ?need to give them longer notice.?
? ? ? Mataguay Connector Rob?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: Ron Graybill <rgraybill44 at gmail.com> Date: 4/6/18  9:06 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: [pct-l] Hiking companion? Mile 168.7 SB to Mile 162.7? 
Anyone interested in joining me to hike (at about 2 mph) the section of the
PCT opened last Nov, from Spitler Peak Trail down to Cedar Spring Trail?
This area had been closed since the Mountain Fire in 2013.

I propose to camp at Apple Canyon Campground on Apple Canyon Road just off
Highway 74, then get up at the crack of dawn and go up the road to the
Spitler Peak Trailhead, thence up that trail the 5 or 5 miles to the PCT at
Mile 168.7, thence southbound six miles to the Cedar Spring Trail at PCT
Mile 162.7, and down that trail to Girl Scout Camp Scherman on Morris Ranch
Road.

How I'll get back to my car at the Spitler Peak trailhead depends on
whether someone want to join me.

I may camp Saturday night, April 14, and hike Sunday April 15 (tax day!
but I've already filed.)


Ron Graybill
3290 E Yountville Dr., Unit 13
Ontario, CA? 91761
909-910-9339
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From aslive at charter.net  Thu Apr 12 19:41:47 2018
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:41:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra City
Message-ID: <Zchn1x00640nV9Q01chnJL@charter.net>

I will be section hiking up to Sierra City this spring and was
wondering if there is any public transportation out of there to
Truckee. I am prepared to hitchhike but I thought I would check-in and
see if anyone knew of a better way to do it. Thanks Shephard

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Thu Apr 12 19:54:45 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 00:54:45 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra City
In-Reply-To: <Zchn1x00640nV9Q01chnJL@charter.net>
References: <Zchn1x00640nV9Q01chnJL@charter.net>
Message-ID: <e325d809f34a41219ebbb7cbf0c454ca@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I had a foot injury and had to get out of Sierra down to Truckee a few years ago. At the time there was no public transport--at least what I could find asking around town. So I hung out in front of the general store with a beer and started chatting up people. Had a ride lined up within an hour--just enough time to finish another beer!

As an aside, the church allowed free camping on their small side yard. There was also a (cold water) shower in the public bathroom right next door. My impression is that it was a very hiker-friendly town--I was offered a ride from the trail head into town without even sticking out my thumb. You know the locals are hiker-aware when you get in the car and they say "ok, where do you want to go? The post office, store, or church to set up camp?"

And be sure to order the 1 pound burger at the general store. Man that hit the spot.

Herb 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of aslive at charter.net
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 5:42 PM
To: 'pct-l at backcountry.net' <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Sierra City

I will be section hiking up to Sierra City this spring and was wondering if there is any public transportation out of there to Truckee. I am prepared to hitchhike but I thought I would check-in and see if anyone knew of a better way to do it. Thanks Shephard _______________________________________________
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From mike.sm64 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 12:20:49 2018
From: mike.sm64 at gmail.com (Mike Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 10:20:49 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 10
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1523638800.67595.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.0.1523638800.67595.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CAEb7wV+H8Rdnd94vce-tX923S0dZO4EQa4rm2j5EoDEG5csj9w@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 10:00 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:

> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
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>
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> include stuff that applies to your reply
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Sierra City (aslive at charter.net)
>    2. Re: Sierra City (Herb Stroh)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: aslive at charter.net
> To: "'pct-l at backcountry.net'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 17:41:47 -0700
> Subject: [pct-l] Sierra City
> I will be section hiking up to Sierra City this spring and was
> wondering if there is any public transportation out of there to
> Truckee. I am prepared to hitchhike but I thought I would check-in and
> see if anyone knew of a better way to do it. Thanks Shephard
>

No public transportation out of Sierra City in either direction. The trail
head is about 1 mile northeast (towards Truckee) out of town, but it might
be worth while hiking into town. The previous note on being a
hiker-friendly town is right on; also, the speed limit through town is
25mpg so getting a hitch from a passing car might be easier. People will be
going to a number of different destinations out of Sierra City so you might
consider a sign.
Good hiking, -Mike

From theolocke at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 10:13:10 2018
From: theolocke at gmail.com (Theodore Locke)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 15:13:10 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Scout and Frodo
Message-ID: <CAOW4+Yq5jK+zH=iR+xHz1ENHygmi=+Cq2J+ig_GZUjFHD8VR_w@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

A couple of years ago I attempted a thru hike and made it to South Lake
Tahoe. I started my trip at Scout and Frodo's. I'm trying again this year.
Anyone know if they're still hosting hikers?

- TedTalks

From geraldbking at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 11:29:56 2018
From: geraldbking at gmail.com (Jerry's gmail)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 09:29:56 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Scout and Frodo
In-Reply-To: <CAOW4+Yq5jK+zH=iR+xHz1ENHygmi=+Cq2J+ig_GZUjFHD8VR_w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOW4+Yq5jK+zH=iR+xHz1ENHygmi=+Cq2J+ig_GZUjFHD8VR_w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2053DBBD-2A52-450D-9076-BF445E810074@gmail.com>

Yes, they certainly are! Quite the operation down there in San Diego; Google should find their information.

> On Apr 15, 2018, at 8:13 AM, Theodore Locke <theolocke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> A couple of years ago I attempted a thru hike and made it to South Lake
> Tahoe. I started my trip at Scout and Frodo's. I'm trying again this year.
> Anyone know if they're still hosting hikers?
> 
> - TedTalks
> _______________________________________________
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From bwatt at 1fifoto.com  Sun Apr 15 14:14:55 2018
From: bwatt at 1fifoto.com (Brian Watt)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 14:14:55 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Scout and Frodo
In-Reply-To: <2053DBBD-2A52-450D-9076-BF445E810074@gmail.com>
References: <CAOW4+Yq5jK+zH=iR+xHz1ENHygmi=+Cq2J+ig_GZUjFHD8VR_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <2053DBBD-2A52-450D-9076-BF445E810074@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <72eba241-7cb3-96c6-4f88-37cf5d4958db@1fifoto.com>

Scout and Frodo email: sandiegopct at gmail.com

All the best, Tartan PCT 2014

From rgraybill44 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 15:39:42 2018
From: rgraybill44 at gmail.com (Ron Graybill)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 13:39:42 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] International PCT hikers galore
Message-ID: <CAEnMNWXhcO4_zC-dqA47euUR-zbzns_pKBLAXXOvgAucYH+7YA@mail.gmail.com>

Yesterday I hiked southbound along the newly opened (as of last Nov)
section of the PCT near Idyllwild. (168.7>162.7). Passed more than 40 NOBO
hikers--probably half of them from outside the US. One from Denmark, two
from Sweden, two from Switzerland, three from France, four from Germany,
one each from England, Tasmania (Australia), New Zealand, and Israel. (and
perhaps some I've forgotten!).  Of course there were also hikers, as Sam
Bush says "from Portland East to Portland West and back along the line."
Well, not really Portland West, but one from Maine and two from Seattle, as
well as from Maryland, New York, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, Alaska, Colorado,
and several other states.

Actually, I hiked up the Spitler Trail from Apple Valley Road, thence south
on that section of the PCT, then down the Cedar Springs Trail.  Lots of
cold wind on the ridges and lots of elevation changes on a hike like
that--tough on my 74 year old frame--but I made it, and even had a bottle
of water to give away to a hiker worried about his dwindling supply just
before I headed down the Cedar Springs Trail.

Ron "Slow-Charger" Graybill

From gary at hbfun.org  Mon Apr 16 16:30:04 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 14:30:04 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] International PCT hikers galore
In-Reply-To: <CAEnMNWXhcO4_zC-dqA47euUR-zbzns_pKBLAXXOvgAucYH+7YA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEnMNWXhcO4_zC-dqA47euUR-zbzns_pKBLAXXOvgAucYH+7YA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9e011dbcc8e9955d2e145badd816721.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

On Mon, April 16, 2018 1:39 pm, Ron Graybill wrote:
> Yesterday I hiked southbound along the newly opened (as of last Nov)
> section of the PCT near Idyllwild. (168.7>162.7). Passed more than 40 NOBO
> hikers--probably half of them from outside the US.

We had much the same experience a couple of weeks ago in Section F.
Thought we'd have it all to ourselves, but we ran into thrus from Sweden,
New Zealand and Phillipines.

Gary

From reddirt23 at att.net  Tue Apr 17 12:44:40 2018
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 10:44:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking companion? Mile 168.7 SB to Mile 162.7?
Message-ID: <4BCB1965-540F-47E6-BF16-77B4F6AC5323@att.net>

Noticed very much the same thing at Kennedy Meadows last season.  I think about, based on the folks I was meeting, about 25% international.  I met Koreans, Israelis, Swiss, Japanese, Germans, and a whole lot of hiker trash.
I also met the young asian who drowned. So sad.  We warned 'em as best we could.

From mrjenn at hotmail.com  Tue Apr 17 13:27:39 2018
From: mrjenn at hotmail.com (william jennings)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 18:27:39 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1523984425.72247.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1523984425.72247.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <DM6PR10MB2442DA02A053DF9918745BA8DFB70@DM6PR10MB2442.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>

Actually this good.  For 4 years now hikers have been hitching from Paradise Valley Caf?, thus bypassing Penrod Canyon, etc.; also Fuller Ridge has been accessible earlier than last year.  Warner Springs Community Resource Center last year had 39 foreign countries represented, for a total of 505 with Germany (112) and Switzerland (50) leading the way.


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Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 5:00 PM
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Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 14

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Today's Topics:

   1. International PCT hikers galore (Ron Graybill)
   2. Re: International PCT hikers galore (Gary Schenk)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 13:39:42 -0700
From: Ron Graybill <rgraybill44 at gmail.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] International PCT hikers galore
Message-ID:
        <CAEnMNWXhcO4_zC-dqA47euUR-zbzns_pKBLAXXOvgAucYH+7YA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Yesterday I hiked southbound along the newly opened (as of last Nov)
section of the PCT near Idyllwild. (168.7>162.7). Passed more than 40 NOBO
hikers--probably half of them from outside the US. One from Denmark, two
from Sweden, two from Switzerland, three from France, four from Germany,
one each from England, Tasmania (Australia), New Zealand, and Israel. (and
perhaps some I've forgotten!).  Of course there were also hikers, as Sam
Bush says "from Portland East to Portland West and back along the line."
Well, not really Portland West, but one from Maine and two from Seattle, as
well as from Maryland, New York, Ohio, Georgia, Texas, Alaska, Colorado,
and several other states.

Actually, I hiked up the Spitler Trail from Apple Valley Road, thence south
on that section of the PCT, then down the Cedar Springs Trail.  Lots of
cold wind on the ridges and lots of elevation changes on a hike like
that--tough on my 74 year old frame--but I made it, and even had a bottle
of water to give away to a hiker worried about his dwindling supply just
before I headed down the Cedar Springs Trail.

Ron "Slow-Charger" Graybill


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 14:30:04 -0700
From: "Gary Schenk" <gary at hbfun.org>
To: "Ron Graybill" <rgraybill44 at gmail.com>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] International PCT hikers galore
Message-ID:
        <a9e011dbcc8e9955d2e145badd816721.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8

On Mon, April 16, 2018 1:39 pm, Ron Graybill wrote:
> Yesterday I hiked southbound along the newly opened (as of last Nov)
> section of the PCT near Idyllwild. (168.7>162.7). Passed more than 40 NOBO
> hikers--probably half of them from outside the US.

We had much the same experience a couple of weeks ago in Section F.
Thought we'd have it all to ourselves, but we ran into thrus from Sweden,
New Zealand and Phillipines.

Gary


------------------------------

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End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 14
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From pctpanama at aol.com  Fri Apr 20 06:49:30 2018
From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 04:49:30 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
Message-ID: <6F6A7A1C-3D3A-4E5B-B5D4-B1F37EA32108@aol.com>

I know the The traditional Adzpctko kick off at lake Marina has been canceled  now days but was wondering if people are still gathering  the last weekend of April to help through hikers ? If so what has the turn out been with trail Angels . I really miss the kick off . Missed the last couple years but I could tell it was becoming an absolute circus.. with all the politics and bottlenecking I guess the thing just imploded on itself.. .. any news of a gathering would be appreciated.   Panama 

"Sent from my iPhone"

       Brian 

From aslive at charter.net  Fri Apr 20 09:07:27 2018
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 07:07:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
Message-ID: <ce7T1x00C1d74Us01e7T8p@charter.net>

I miss it too. It was a fun gathering of the tribe.

	-----------------------------------------From: "Brian Gill" 

To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc: 
Sent: Friday April 20 2018 4:50:11AM
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off

 I know the The traditional Adzpctko kick off at lake Marina has been
canceled now days but was wondering if people are still gathering the
last weekend of April to help through hikers ? If so what has the turn
out been with trail Angels . I really miss the kick off . Missed the
last couple years but I could tell it was becoming an absolute
circus.. with all the politics and bottlenecking I guess the thing
just imploded on itself.. .. any news of a gathering would be
appreciated. Panama 

 "Sent from my iPhone"

 Brian 
 _______________________________________________
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 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 /> 
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 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 /> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 10:29:13 2018
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 08:29:13 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <ce7T1x00C1d74Us01e7T8p@charter.net>
References: <ce7T1x00C1d74Us01e7T8p@charter.net>
Message-ID: <48AFB827-5CE9-4874-A9E3-06F73B4C6F5B@gmail.com>

From a section hiker:

On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)

The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.

?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) 

> On Apr 20, 2018, at 7:07 AM, aslive at charter.net wrote:
> 
> I miss it too. It was a fun gathering of the tribe.
> 
> 	-----------------------------------------From: "Brian Gill" 
> 
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday April 20 2018 4:50:11AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
> 
> I know the The traditional Adzpctko kick off at lake Marina has been
> canceled now days but was wondering if people are still gathering the
> last weekend of April to help through hikers ? If so what has the turn
> out been with trail Angels . I really miss the kick off . Missed the
> last couple years but I could tell it was becoming an absolute
> circus.. with all the politics and bottlenecking I guess the thing
> just imploded on itself.. .. any news of a gathering would be
> appreciated. Panama 
> 
> "Sent from my iPhone"
> 
> Brian 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> /> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> /> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 13:26:10 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:26:10 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
Message-ID: <CALu=H=i2hz2hfwdAxiSC7OndMLkqiD5aucuvU5Qj1M0LDXGdnQ@mail.gmail.com>

-Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)

I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes
off in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has
surfaced, or wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by
being held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a
reconstituted ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held
on this same weekend.

Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or
work obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined
to start en mass due to weather concerns.

Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would
diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last
FULL weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.

Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits,
encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and
assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO)
the trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key
sections between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.

What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under
an umbrella organization?

The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and
the population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet
this issue head on and deal with it using best practices.

Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
(2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO,
did more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a
victim of it's own success.

The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be
best served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO,
held earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of
contributing to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend
to hold such an affair, and it just might be in late February or
sometime in March. This evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in
the traditional hiking protocol of a continuous hike, step by step
north, and instead shifts almost entirely (for early starters) into
one of a flip flop strategy.

What say yee faithful list-serve readers?

FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have
been as follows:

NOBO 2012 04-26

NOBO 2013 05-20

NOBO 2014 03-23

NOBO 2015 03-03

SOBO 2015 07-10

NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)

NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)

NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I
plan to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around
mile #210.)

Best regards,

Paint

>>> From a section hiker:

On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ?
great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the
border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get
to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the
desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made
life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken
or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why
the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to
start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a
month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event,
but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)

The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or
camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month
earlier.

?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<<

From sbryce at scottbryce.com  Fri Apr 20 13:56:03 2018
From: sbryce at scottbryce.com (Scott Bryce)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:56:03 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <48AFB827-5CE9-4874-A9E3-06F73B4C6F5B@gmail.com>
References: <ce7T1x00C1d74Us01e7T8p@charter.net>
 <48AFB827-5CE9-4874-A9E3-06F73B4C6F5B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <015e8b9a-b5d8-20ad-b9d4-5b7f5abfdb8a@scottbryce.com>

On 4/20/2018 9:29 AM, Susan Virnig wrote:
> Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO
> used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.
> If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.
> (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ?
> it encouraged many to start then.)
> 
> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or
> camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month
> earlier.

And yet the year I attempted my thru hike, it was snowing in the San
Jacintos in May.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Fri Apr 20 14:17:39 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:17:39 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <48AFB827-5CE9-4874-A9E3-06F73B4C6F5B@gmail.com>
References: <ce7T1x00C1d74Us01e7T8p@charter.net>
 <48AFB827-5CE9-4874-A9E3-06F73B4C6F5B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=38Q-Q_Oaeu-P=8SV+0cT1Oh5KCfhzCQz+AnUUxvvOEg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used
to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it
was bad for us, we
couldn?t imagine  starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks
circled back
for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)<<

The date was chosen as a convenient start date to hit Kennedy Meadows
South around "Ray Day" - June 15, which is a good time to enter the
Sierra on an "average snow year" if "average" means anything anymore.
The ADZ date really should be variable based on the seasonal
precipitation, but it was such a big event, they had to schedule it a
year in advance

This year we have a drought in So-Cal so you are experiencing dryer
conditions than normal. Some years, people leaving in April get snowed
on in the Lagunas.

When you hit the Sierra, you may wish you had started later.

Oh, and if you think things were hot/dry at the border, wait till you
hit the Mojave.

HYOH YMMV

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Fri Apr 20 16:17:28 2018
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:17:28 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
Message-ID: <000601d3d8ec$fd992530$f8cb6f90$@verizon.net>

Has anyone had any recent experience with driving Jawbone Canyon Road in
California Section F?  In particular the section from where it crosses Kelso
Valley Road and then goes up to the PCT.  Do you need a 4 wheel drive
vehicle to get up to the PCT or would a 2 wheel drive pickup be able to make
it?  Thanks.

 

I-Beam


From gary at hbfun.org  Fri Apr 20 16:33:06 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:33:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
In-Reply-To: <000601d3d8ec$fd992530$f8cb6f90$@verizon.net>
References: <000601d3d8ec$fd992530$f8cb6f90$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <15e30e5159ffb5ffd206264a880b2992.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

On Fri, April 20, 2018 2:17 pm, Jim Banks wrote:
> Has anyone had any recent experience with driving Jawbone Canyon Road in
> California Section F?  In particular the section from where it crosses
> Kelso
> Valley Road and then goes up to the PCT.  Do you need a 4 wheel drive
> vehicle to get up to the PCT or would a 2 wheel drive pickup be able to
> make
> it?  Thanks.

I-Beam,

Are you talking about the Geringer Grade section? I did that part of
Jawbone last year in a Subaru Outback. It was very sandy at one sharp
curve near the top, that was the tricky part. If you did stop there it
would be a fairly short walk to PCT. That's probably been graded since
then. Many years ago I drove that bit in a 2wd pickup. I think you'll be
OK. Good luck.

Gary

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 17:15:03 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 15:15:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jM3n3pn-=dQO_W1gHRA+U=+kf86euMk7emQZq6tp1zyQ@mail.gmail.com>

 I-Beam- Question?

I'm looking at a PCT CA Section F map, and Jawbone Canyon Rd. comes up from
the eastern flank of the Sierra, in a W by NW track, crosses the PCT at
mile 602.5, up on top, and then T bones into Piute Mnt. Rd., at Claraville
Flat.

Piute Mnt. Rd. runs a westerly / easterly track at this intersection. Piute
Mnt. Rd. tracks E by NE, eventually intersecting with Kelso Valley Rd., at
a point a few miles as a crow flys above the PCT's mile # 617.

If this is the road you are inquiring about- then yes, I have traveled that
road in a Dodge 350 dually truck- and no, a 4WD vehicle is not required.

For clarity, this route is known as the Harris Grade, and the route from
the eastern flank of the Sierra, up over the top, is known as the Geringer
Grade.

Best regards,

Paint

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Apr 20 16:48:04 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:48:04 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
 ADZPCTKO
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=i2hz2hfwdAxiSC7OndMLkqiD5aucuvU5Qj1M0LDXGdnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=i2hz2hfwdAxiSC7OndMLkqiD5aucuvU5Qj1M0LDXGdnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <05be01d3d8f1$434fd660$c9ef8320$@mountaineducation.org>

There are (or were) a lot of PCT veterans monitoring this listserve who date way back to the inception of the KO. I didn't start going until 2005 after being vetted by Hummel and first heard about it.

Any "party" anywhere near the trail will draw hikers and create a herd-wave, which was the concern of Donna's early on as Hiker Heaven was directly impacted. 

If the reason for the event is still to be a "kickoff" celebration, then, as Paint said, it should be early in the NoBo thru-hiking season. However, timing is not just the issue, location is another problem as Morena can't hold the numbers it would see.

I can't help but wonder if this sort of PCT gathering should be patterned after the AT's "Trail Days" event hosted by a town along the trail?
http://www.traildays.us/  

I don't know why they do it in May, but if a PCT event was held the end of June in NorCal, and hosted by Seiad Valley, 
-  people could start any time they wished (not corresponding with a kick-off party down south), 
-  the resources of an entire town and community along the trail could be involved, and 
-  the timing would encourage NoBo thrus to get there by that date, causing them 
	-  to get through the Sierra before the fatal creeks start roaring (usually for 3-4 weeks of intense thaw starting late May)
	-  allowing them easier, safer passage on still frozen (not thawing) snow
	-  they avoid the really bad, high-flowing creeks in northern Yosemite, too, and 
	-  they'll have enough time after to get to Canada before the first snowstorms stop them in their tracks.
	-  Plus, the SoBo hikers can attend and still start their journeys a few weeks later (roughly)!

Didn't someone involved with the town of Seiad Valley speak up sometime in the last two years about hosting such an event??


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:26 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net; susanvirnig at gmail.com; Amanda Silvestri <aslive at charter.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO

-Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)

I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes off in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has surfaced, or wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by being held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a reconstituted ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held on this same weekend.

Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or work obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined to start en mass due to weather concerns.

Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last FULL weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.

Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits, encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO) the trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key sections between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.

What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under an umbrella organization?

The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and the population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet this issue head on and deal with it using best practices.

Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
(2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO, did more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a victim of it's own success.

The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be best served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO, held earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of contributing to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend to hold such an affair, and it just might be in late February or sometime in March. This evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in the traditional hiking protocol of a continuous hike, step by step north, and instead shifts almost entirely (for early starters) into one of a flip flop strategy.

What say yee faithful list-serve readers?

FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have been as follows:

NOBO 2012 04-26

NOBO 2013 05-20

NOBO 2014 03-23

NOBO 2015 03-03

SOBO 2015 07-10

NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)

NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)

NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I plan to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around mile #210.)

Best regards,

Paint

>>> From a section hiker:

On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)

The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.

?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<< _______________________________________________
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From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Fri Apr 20 17:47:32 2018
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 15:47:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jM3n3pn-=dQO_W1gHRA+U=+kf86euMk7emQZq6tp1zyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=jM3n3pn-=dQO_W1gHRA+U=+kf86euMk7emQZq6tp1zyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601d3d8f9$92518a30$b6f49e90$@verizon.net>

Yes, those are the roads I am talking about.  Thanks for the information.

 

I-Beam

 

From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:15 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net; Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
Subject: Jawbone Canyon Road

 

I-Beam- Question? 

 

I'm looking at a PCT CA Section F map, and Jawbone Canyon Rd. comes up from the eastern flank of the Sierra, in a W by NW track, crosses the PCT at mile 602.5, up on top, and then T bones into Piute Mnt. Rd., at Claraville Flat. 

 

Piute Mnt. Rd. runs a westerly / easterly track at this intersection. Piute Mnt. Rd. tracks E by NE, eventually intersecting with Kelso Valley Rd., at a point a few miles as a crow flys above the PCT's mile # 617. 

 

If this is the road you are inquiring about- then yes, I have traveled that road in a Dodge 350 dually truck- and no, a 4WD vehicle is not required.

 

For clarity, this route is known as the Harris Grade, and the route from the eastern flank of the Sierra, up over the top, is known as the Geringer Grade. 

 

Best regards,

 

Paint 

 


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 18:13:47 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:13:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
 ADZPCTKO
In-Reply-To: <05be01d3d8f1$434fd660$c9ef8320$@mountaineducation.org>
References: <CALu=H=i2hz2hfwdAxiSC7OndMLkqiD5aucuvU5Qj1M0LDXGdnQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <05be01d3d8f1$434fd660$c9ef8320$@mountaineducation.org>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gd5bF9E-r43Puw9JFjRwjJNsiMAw9BY4iF59vODmCV3A@mail.gmail.com>

Ned,

You make several good points and I really don't disagree with much of
anything that you said.

However, I see two unique events being discussed. Model A- a pre hike
event, and Model B- a hike underway event.

I don't think there will ever be a kick off (in the sense that it was) nor
that is sanctioned or attended to, by most of the official organizations
that did so, at one time or another. I hold out a modest amount of hope
that if a much earlier kick off did take place, it would be supported in
the right way, by the right people and organizations from the hiking
community.

The party aspect is the least of any reason for my attending.

An intangible, the affirmation, manifested by the tangible, the gathering,
motivates me the most. To each their own.

I was viewing a reconstituted kick off as a draw, to bring more hikers out
earlier, in fact substantially earlier, if at all possible. The hikers
would have to use a flip flop strategy, which would aid in dispersing
hikers along the trail.

Obviously, there IS an unknown (early) date that would be TOO early in the
season to hold a kick off and yet still accomplish what I have suggested,
so the key would be to figure out what the optimum date might be.

All the best,

Paint



On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 2:48 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

> There are (or were) a lot of PCT veterans monitoring this listserve who
> date way back to the inception of the KO. I didn't start going until 2005
> after being vetted by Hummel and first heard about it.
>
> Any "party" anywhere near the trail will draw hikers and create a
> herd-wave, which was the concern of Donna's early on as Hiker Heaven was
> directly impacted.
>
> If the reason for the event is still to be a "kickoff" celebration, then,
> as Paint said, it should be early in the NoBo thru-hiking season. However,
> timing is not just the issue, location is another problem as Morena can't
> hold the numbers it would see.
>
> I can't help but wonder if this sort of PCT gathering should be patterned
> after the AT's "Trail Days" event hosted by a town along the trail?
> http://www.traildays.us/
>
> I don't know why they do it in May, but if a PCT event was held the end of
> June in NorCal, and hosted by Seiad Valley,
> -  people could start any time they wished (not corresponding with a
> kick-off party down south),
> -  the resources of an entire town and community along the trail could be
> involved, and
> -  the timing would encourage NoBo thrus to get there by that date,
> causing them
>         -  to get through the Sierra before the fatal creeks start roaring
> (usually for 3-4 weeks of intense thaw starting late May)
>         -  allowing them easier, safer passage on still frozen (not
> thawing) snow
>         -  they avoid the really bad, high-flowing creeks in northern
> Yosemite, too, and
>         -  they'll have enough time after to get to Canada before the
> first snowstorms stop them in their tracks.
>         -  Plus, the SoBo hikers can attend and still start their journeys
> a few weeks later (roughly)!
>
> Didn't someone involved with the town of Seiad Valley speak up sometime in
> the last two years about hosting such an event??
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:26 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; susanvirnig at gmail.com; Amanda Silvestri <
> aslive at charter.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>
> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
>
> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes off
> in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has surfaced, or
> wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by being
> held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a reconstituted
> ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held on this same
> weekend.
>
> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or work
> obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined to start
> en mass due to weather concerns.
>
> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would
> diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last FULL
> weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
>
> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits,
> encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and
> assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO) the
> trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key sections
> between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
>
> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under an
> umbrella organization?
>
> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and the
> population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet this
> issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
>
> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO, did
> more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a victim of
> it's own success.
>
> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be best
> served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO, held
> earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of contributing
> to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend to hold such an
> affair, and it just might be in late February or sometime in March. This
> evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in the traditional hiking
> protocol of a continuous hike, step by step north, and instead shifts
> almost entirely (for early starters) into one of a flip flop strategy.
>
> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
>
> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have been
> as follows:
>
> NOBO 2012 04-26
>
> NOBO 2013 05-20
>
> NOBO 2014 03-23
>
> NOBO 2015 03-03
>
> SOBO 2015 07-10
>
> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
>
> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
>
> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I plan
> to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around mile #210.)
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paint
>
> >>> From a section hiker:
>
> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great
> burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake
> Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each
> time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat
> and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most
> water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us
> commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in
> late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we
> couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks
> circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
>
> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping
> with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.
>
> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<<
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>

From fhjjillw at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 18:58:45 2018
From: fhjjillw at gmail.com (fhjjillw at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:58:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
Message-ID: <36EAC5F9-0388-44BA-8E23-18B0D4E95354@gmail.com>


If one of the main purposes of the April kick-off was information gathering, pack shake downs, gear evaluation etc. why not use the Ruck format to accomplish that purpose?   That way people can acquire their gear ahead of time. The Rucks happen in the winter months and are spread out geographically enabling more people to attend. The ?party? could be the ALDHA gathering in the fall.

Jill, Breakaway 

Sent from my iPhone

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 20 23:19:47 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:19:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l]  Lake Marina kick off
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM3WjisDjgYhZpeJcyT_5CxOjDDQDsngbqK3bo9mFyg9bQ@mail.gmail.com>

>From the beginning I have missed 4 or 5 of the KOP's, and most of those
were toward the end.  When we hiked the PCT in 2015 we skipped the KOP,
just to avoid all the people and have a few days of trail to ourselves.
I'm not sad that the KOP's have ended, but I really did like seeing all of
the ultra-light gear from companies that you do not find in a REI like
store; Gossamer Gear, Z-Packs, Six Moons, and such like.

If I remember correctly, The KOP starting date was picked to line
thru-hikers up to hike into the Sierras during an average rainfall year.
 Look at last year, snow fall was about double an average year.  To hit the
Sierras at the right time you needed to start late.  If you start later it
will be hot in So Ca.  That is all there is to it.  The faster you are the
later you need to start.  I started the PCT on 4/12/96 and 4/19/15.  Not a
bad time.  It did get a little hot but not to bad, maybe the 90's.  Note: I
live in San Diego County, day hikes in the 90's is not abnormal.  In fact,
it is fun to hike by people hiding in the shade and it is only in the low
80's.

Side note:  Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO.  Well in
the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO.  It was Annual
Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party.  At some point they dropped
the Party.  I never did.

Papa Raven
The Ravens
PCT '96, '15
CDT '17

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 07:28:56 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 07:28:56 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Gear question
Message-ID: <12DC7147-4FAA-4DFF-9664-BE6CF280DAEA@gmail.com>

Help me think this through - I have a z packs rain skirt and have considered unzipping it and using it as a small tarp under my tent. It?s roughly the size of my trunk area, would go to my knees. 

Any reason this would be a bad idea? 

Obviously this is less about weight and more about having an efficient kit where everything has earned its right to be in my pack :D 

GoGo

Sent from my iPhone

From dr_carolyn at yahoo.com  Sat Apr 21 12:44:47 2018
From: dr_carolyn at yahoo.com (CClark)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 17:44:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Subject: Re:  Lake Marina kick off
References: <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107@mail.yahoo.com>

On? Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:17:39 -0700,?Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:

<<
This year we have a drought in So-Cal so you are experiencing dryer
conditions than normal. Some years, people leaving in April get snowed
on in the Lagunas.

When you hit the Sierra, you may wish you had started later. >>



Hereis my question:

Brick,It sounds like you are familiar with "typical" weatherpatterns (I know there is really no typical) in southern CA.Would?water issues make?it a really bad idea to hike the southern section in the fall??

BTW,I am now a very senior citizen. I hiked all of southern Cal when Iwas in my early sixties, when I could cover 20 miles in a day fairlyeasily. I'm a strong hiker for my age, but I'm not so sure I could do 20-mile days now, and I'm not so sure Ican still carry a 3-day supply of water while I'm hiking that many miles.


I am wondering if I'm just dreaming, to consider thru-hiking again.


Carolyn"aka Soul Doctor"






From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sat Apr 21 13:27:50 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 11:27:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Gear question
In-Reply-To: <12DC7147-4FAA-4DFF-9664-BE6CF280DAEA@gmail.com>
References: <12DC7147-4FAA-4DFF-9664-BE6CF280DAEA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3145d895-42fe-16ef-be24-d5d1a8608ff1@marcusschwartz.com>

My impression was that ground sheets were necessary to prevent damage to 
the tent floor (since most are so thin now they could easily be damaged) 
and to trap moisture/condensation from the ground so it doesn't soak 
through your floor.  Having a ground sheet that only covers part of your 
floor wouldn't do either of those well.  (That said, I've never 
experimented with this, so I don't know if that's really the purpose of 
ground sheets, I just always used them unquestioningly...)

Also, I had a surprising amount of difficulty keeping my ground sheet 
from blowing away at certain points on the trail.  I had to weigh it 
down with rocks very often.  In fact, near Squaw Creek in the Sierras, 
my ground sheet blew out from under my pitched tent, with rocks on its 
corners, and all my gear inside the tent resting on it.

So, if the ground sheet were smaller than my tent footprint, then I 
would've had to sleep on rocks, or let the ground sheet blow away.

  -=Marcus

On 04/21/2018 05:28 AM, Sabrina Harrison wrote:
> Help me think this through - I have a z packs rain skirt and have
> considered unzipping it and using it as a small tarp under my tent.
> It?s roughly the size of my trunk area, would go to my knees.
> 
> Any reason this would be a bad idea?
> 
> Obviously this is less about weight and more about having an
> efficient kit where everything has earned its right to be in my pack
> :D
> 
> GoGo
> 
> Sent from my iPhone _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change
> options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Apr 21 13:51:35 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 11:51:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Admin Note: Porn Spam
Message-ID: <CALV1Nznirv9gXO14CJzo62E9i_8WXf4Gj6F3R2ijJ=KUkPZdYg@mail.gmail.com>

A spam robot is mining the list right now, and it is likely that if
you post, you may receive some spam directly to your email address
with pornographic pictures inviting you to visit a website.

These are not being sent through the list, so they cant be "blocked"
with the list software

This has happened before, but the technique I used then to stop it
doesn't work this time. I am still looking into it, and I hope I
figure  out a way to stop it soon.

In the meantime, almost all mail programs have "filters" that can be
used to trash this stuff before you even see it.

Sorry. I am doing what I can to end  it

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat Apr 21 14:08:50 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 12:08:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Subject: Re: Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzmrfRP9r_YppLc4GqwtVEt6S714F3xFXZLaazZpHwe6Cg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:44 AM, CClark <dr_carolyn at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Brick,It sounds like you are familiar with "typical" weatherpatterns (I know there is really no typical) in southern CA.Would water issues make it a really bad idea to hike the southern section in the fall?

In the fall, there will most likely be no natural water available. I
would only count on pipes hooked into a municipal water system

If I were to plan a Fall So-Cal section hike, I would take a day
before the trip to drive and cache water near the road crossings. Take
detailed notes (an pics if you have your phone) as to where you left
the water, as things seem very different even after a few days and
they can be hard to find. If they are sufficiently hidden, the water
should still be there when you arrive on your section hike.

Just be sure to carry out the empties, or go back and pick them up
after the section.

The fall is a wonderful time to hike SoCal. Enjoy your trip.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 14:44:26 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 14:44:26 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Admin Note: Porn Spam
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nznirv9gXO14CJzo62E9i_8WXf4Gj6F3R2ijJ=KUkPZdYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALV1Nznirv9gXO14CJzo62E9i_8WXf4Gj6F3R2ijJ=KUkPZdYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCD6EC1F-5D6F-41F7-AE0C-35D514F2A949@gmail.com>

You?re awesome Brick - thanks!
GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2018, at 1:51 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> 
> A spam robot is mining the list right now, and it is likely that if
> you post, you may receive some spam directly to your email address
> with pornographic pictures inviting you to visit a website.
> 
> These are not being sent through the list, so they cant be "blocked"
> with the list software
> 
> This has happened before, but the technique I used then to stop it
> doesn't work this time. I am still looking into it, and I hope I
> figure  out a way to stop it soon.
> 
> In the meantime, almost all mail programs have "filters" that can be
> used to trash this stuff before you even see it.
> 
> Sorry. I am doing what I can to end  it
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 17:00:31 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:00:31 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
In-Reply-To: <36EAC5F9-0388-44BA-8E23-18B0D4E95354@gmail.com>
References: <36EAC5F9-0388-44BA-8E23-18B0D4E95354@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iAioun4fu3KOZwB1WXxxbAz2qOm4hi+nyp4da_NocApA@mail.gmail.com>

Breakaway!

Thanks for the suggestions.
I want to clarify that part of the reason I went rogue and spilled my guts
about the now defunct ADZPCTKO,
and a proposed quasi legitimate surrogate-
is that...
it was an indescribably amazing experience for THIS rookie,
which,
as I understand it,
is primarily what the main purpose was intended to be.

Hell yes!
Have a RUCK in lieu of a kickoff.
Same-Same to me.
Finding somewhere that can accommodate the anticipated crowds seems to be
an emerging issue?
There's a huge Boy Scout Camp 5 miles east of mile # 127,
at the end of Chihuahua Valley Road,
near trail angel Mike Herrerra's place,
that could work,
OR,
Warner Springs Community Center...
might work,
with their cooperation and approval.
AND,
if held a month earlier,
perhaps,
the Lake Morena County Park could still handle the event.

I would advocate for the last full weekend in March,
just to see if it helps to disperse the herd out on the trail.

Let's face it,
the times have changed,
and the population has swelled,
and maybe,
the kick off's purpose morphed/could of morphed,
into more than placing people at the doorstep of the Sierra,
at an optimum time,
and just maybe,
a part of it's newfound purpose,
could be to spread out the herd,
instead of concentrating it all at the end of April.

Straight up-
the kick off would have to be enough of a draw,
to attract a sufficient number of hikers,
to pay the bills.

Charging a fee is not out of the realm of possibilities.
Protocol says to pay $20 a night at a trail angel's house.
So be it.

A two night event = $40 (attendance) entry fee,
times the number of hikers.
Make sense?

Keepin' it real,

Paint

PS
People are going to party,
irrespective of an organization's purpose or preamble,
so let that subject matter travel it's own course.

And all the people said Amen!


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 4:58 PM, <fhjjillw at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> If one of the main purposes of the April kick-off was information
> gathering, pack shake downs, gear evaluation etc. why not use the Ruck
> format to accomplish that purpose?   That way people can acquire their gear
> ahead of time. The Rucks happen in the winter months and are spread out
> geographically enabling more people to attend. The ?party? could be the
> ALDHA gathering in the fall.
>
> Jill, Breakaway
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 17:23:46 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 15:23:46 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Water is heavy
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gsnA2evBsCaP8NfyBmC8Y8Lpz3rG1iOd88bXH3iP-b3A@mail.gmail.com>

I get a big kick out of hikers that penny pinch on carrying water, yet , to
each, their own.

As a bumbling rookie, I carried 2 gallons of water with me EVERYWHERE.

As an upper class graduate, I carried exactly one liter of water at a time,
in southern Washington, and ran out three days in a row, prompting me to
have to hike an extra 10 miles at the end of each planned day's hike, to
resupply from a water source. DAMN!

Guess what?

I'm hiking... now- season seven, and I'm outfitted with EMPTY water jugs,
that will permit me to carry AT LEAST 2 gallons of water if conditions
require it.

Nothing new under the sun.

PS

Ancient Chinese secret:

One can carry a gallon in each hand, getting the weight off of their back.
And, because the water is handy, it will get consumed faster than if on
one's back. And, the second benefit is that one will be aware of the
weight/water penalty, and will be motivated to consume the water, at a
faster rate, than if tucked away in a backpack, which will
encourage/accelerate proper hydration.

Been there, done that.

Best regards,

Paint

From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 21 17:29:41 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 22:29:41 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=iAioun4fu3KOZwB1WXxxbAz2qOm4hi+nyp4da_NocApA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <36EAC5F9-0388-44BA-8E23-18B0D4E95354@gmail.com>,
 <CALu=H=iAioun4fu3KOZwB1WXxxbAz2qOm4hi+nyp4da_NocApA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB126394ACE6787E7304E0B28BFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>


Maybe at Kennedy Meadows South on Ray Day as was the original intention...That would keep the population down to only hikers and hard core supporters....

________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 3:00 PM
To: fhjjillw at gmail.com; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts

Breakaway!

Thanks for the suggestions.
I want to clarify that part of the reason I went rogue and spilled my guts
about the now defunct ADZPCTKO,
and a proposed quasi legitimate surrogate-
is that...
it was an indescribably amazing experience for THIS rookie,
which,
as I understand it,
is primarily what the main purpose was intended to be.

Hell yes!
Have a RUCK in lieu of a kickoff.
Same-Same to me.
Finding somewhere that can accommodate the anticipated crowds seems to be
an emerging issue?
There's a huge Boy Scout Camp 5 miles east of mile # 127,
at the end of Chihuahua Valley Road,
near trail angel Mike Herrerra's place,
that could work,
OR,
Warner Springs Community Center...
might work,
with their cooperation and approval.
AND,
if held a month earlier,
perhaps,
the Lake Morena County Park could still handle the event.

I would advocate for the last full weekend in March,
just to see if it helps to disperse the herd out on the trail.

Let's face it,
the times have changed,
and the population has swelled,
and maybe,
the kick off's purpose morphed/could of morphed,
into more than placing people at the doorstep of the Sierra,
at an optimum time,
and just maybe,
a part of it's newfound purpose,
could be to spread out the herd,
instead of concentrating it all at the end of April.

Straight up-
the kick off would have to be enough of a draw,
to attract a sufficient number of hikers,
to pay the bills.

Charging a fee is not out of the realm of possibilities.
Protocol says to pay $20 a night at a trail angel's house.
So be it.

A two night event = $40 (attendance) entry fee,
times the number of hikers.
Make sense?

Keepin' it real,

Paint

PS
People are going to party,
irrespective of an organization's purpose or preamble,
so let that subject matter travel it's own course.

And all the people said Amen!


On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 4:58 PM, <fhjjillw at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> If one of the main purposes of the April kick-off was information
> gathering, pack shake downs, gear evaluation etc. why not use the Ruck
> format to accomplish that purpose?   That way people can acquire their gear
> ahead of time. The Rucks happen in the winter months and are spread out
> geographically enabling more people to attend. The ?party? could be the
> ALDHA gathering in the fall.
>
> Jill, Breakaway
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the Pct-L Archives.. Using Pct-L: To post a message to all the list members, send email to pct-l at backcountry.net.



>
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Sat Apr 21 17:42:34 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 22:42:34 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Re:  Gathering thoughts
In-Reply-To: <ed9ec4bd3251e642dc166fabddb609dc@mx.google.com>
References: <MWHPR14MB126394ACE6787E7304E0B28BFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>,
 <ed9ec4bd3251e642dc166fabddb609dc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB12634E64EBDA7D8FDF21358FFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

Brick...you weren't kidding about the porn bots....got this email within 5 minutes of posting...the name though was amusing....Eunice ?? Really ?? Couldn't come up with a better name that didn't sound like a great-aunt or a staff sergeant


Redwood


________________________________
From: Marilyn Dean <lillynrose101 at blackkick.pw>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 3:32 PM
To: randy_forsland at hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts


Randy,  I'm not for anything too crazy I am Eunice Meyer and age is not too big of a deal {as long as you are handsome and respectful as long as you are a good guy . I just want to have a time if you know what I mean ;)

 also, whats your location? whats the plan for first meet?|

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 at 04:29 PM, Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com<mailto:randy_forsland at hotmail.com>> wrote:




From troopharrison at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 19:08:02 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 19:08:02 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Re:  Gathering thoughts
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR14MB12634E64EBDA7D8FDF21358FFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR14MB126394ACE6787E7304E0B28BFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <ed9ec4bd3251e642dc166fabddb609dc@mx.google.com>
 <MWHPR14MB12634E64EBDA7D8FDF21358FFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <760F81BD-0BA9-417D-98C5-FC60832C2D8F@gmail.com>

Watch it Redwood, some Eunices are real lookers - like my great-great aunt Eunice the 3rd. Peg leg but otherwise a real solid date

GoGo

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Brick...you weren't kidding about the porn bots....got this email within 5 minutes of posting...the name though was amusing....Eunice ?? Really ?? Couldn't come up with a better name that didn't sound like a great-aunt or a staff sergeant
> 
> 
> Redwood
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Marilyn Dean <lillynrose101 at blackkick.pw>
> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 3:32 PM
> To: randy_forsland at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
> 
> 
> Randy,  I'm not for anything too crazy I am Eunice Meyer and age is not too big of a deal {as long as you are handsome and respectful as long as you are a good guy . I just want to have a time if you know what I mean ;)
> 
> also, whats your location? whats the plan for first meet?|
> 
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 at 04:29 PM, Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com<mailto:randy_forsland at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat Apr 21 21:45:06 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 19:45:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
Message-ID: <CALu=H=j1sehT4+E5d3m9MJmbCh-b78YsLBEELxAje1c-QPh8Lg@mail.gmail.com>

Another near trail locale / facility that might be able to handle a kick
off / ruck, is the Stagecoach Trails RV Resort, 4 miles south of Scissors
Crossing, on the Great Southern Overland Stage Route. PCT mile # 77. A two
session format may be the best strategy.

Paint

From baidarker at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 04:19:44 2018
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 09:19:44 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Subject: Re: Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NzmrfRP9r_YppLc4GqwtVEt6S714F3xFXZLaazZpHwe6Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <2082515201.3047655.1524332687107@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CALV1NzmrfRP9r_YppLc4GqwtVEt6S714F3xFXZLaazZpHwe6Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11QCGfqe6jD0Pcks_Uj=J57UEYaFMTHyPucByhOVLPjjQ@mail.gmail.com>

I?ll put in my two cents worth for an autumn hike of the desert sections. I
hadn?t planned to do a thru hike of the PCT in 2010, but found I was having
such a great time that spring that I just couldn?t stop. As it was all ad
lib so to speak, I had a family obligation that forced me off Trail for
about 300 miles of desert. So I finished at the Canadian border in mid
September, took two weeks off, and then returned to finish the desert
section I?d missed in October. It was absolutely gorgeous!

The year had begun with a bloom on the cactus and the bush poppies, but my
hike ended with lots of wild desert fruit, from wild plums and holly leafed
cherry and prickly pear, to a Trail covered in pine nuts by the million.
Local Native Americans we?re camped in some of the PCT camps with big
extended family gatherings, for a harvest that required rakes to gather
them all up.

I didn?t want for water, but was careful about making sure I carried enough
from source to source as some of the streams were dry.

Best of all was completing my hike at Hiker Heaven. My first thru hike and
the first time someone had completed their thru at the Saufley?s.

By October, the heat of summer was diminished enough that I had frosty
nights and really delightful days, and the trail was empty!  I loved the
Trail community of the summer, but also the joy of being alone in the
beauty of the So Cal desert at the tail end of the season. You will meet
some Sobos, and I actually met Eric Bo, also on his first hike, who I would
share 1,800 miles with on the CDT a few years later.

I can?t recommend the desert in fall more highly.

Shroomer

On Sun, Apr 22, 30 Heisei at 7:08 AM Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 10:44 AM, CClark <dr_carolyn at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Brick,It sounds like you are familiar with "typical" weatherpatterns (I
> know there is really no typical) in southern CA.Would water issues make it
> a really bad idea to hike the southern section in the fall?
>
> In the fall, there will most likely be no natural water available. I
> would only count on pipes hooked into a municipal water system
>
> If I were to plan a Fall So-Cal section hike, I would take a day
> before the trip to drive and cache water near the road crossings. Take
> detailed notes (an pics if you have your phone) as to where you left
> the water, as things seem very different even after a few days and
> they can be hard to find. If they are sufficiently hidden, the water
> should still be there when you arrive on your section hike.
>
> Just be sure to carry out the empties, or go back and pick them up
> after the section.
>
> The fall is a wonderful time to hike SoCal. Enjoy your trip.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From sue.kettles at comcast.net  Sun Apr 22 10:20:23 2018
From: sue.kettles at comcast.net (Sue)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 10:20:23 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1524330000.54907.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1524330000.54907.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <5B2AE070-E30F-4AE4-A058-0607AAB86DA3@comcast.net>

I think my first KO was in 2006.  As each year happened, It was a smaller, lovely time of likeminded lovers of trail life to gather and share stories and watch hiking and Squatch movies on that big tyvek screen under the stars.  It was magical.   Patting the eager ?thrus? with their big wide eyes on the back and saying ?You can do this! ?
  But then came ?Wild?...and the trail life grew from 400 a year to 4000 a year.   Times have changed- for better for worse.  Life happens!

But I?ll cherish the old days in my heart. Strider, Asabat, Capt Bivy, .....gone and never forgotten.....Warner springs Monte cooking all that food! ,  Georgie sitting there with her spinning yarn thing?, even the pirate guy with his trail inventions for lighter weight, the Andersons camped by the trail to cheer as each person walked into Morena-  I felt like a queen that day.  
All the gear options were set up to look at during the day- so helpful. Doesn?t take more than a day or two or carrying a heavy pack to understand that you need to carry less weight.  It was just such fun comradeship. Not sure who played the bagpipes of amazing grace in the mornings but that was sooo cool.   
I remember one year hiking from Warner springs south into the KO and meeting so many newbies in their zeal and joy heading north. I was with Squatch and Splash - we were S-Troop.  Squatch was interviewing hikers that year for his first or 2nd Pct film.  Because of both Splash and Squatch?s gregarious funny nature I met so many new friends (I am a quieter shy type) , just being along for the hike with both of them was a big help for me.  In the fall, Splash and I hiked Stevens pass south to Snoqualmie and met at least a dozen of these same people we had met back in late April.  It?s was fabulous to witness this huge transformation of personality in them-  in April so timid and starry eyed and in wonder,,,,,,and now the hardened tanned bodies, confidence, and the stories of magic they shared.  I?ll not forget those encounters either.  

You just can?t do something (the KO) that seemed so intimate with all the hundred and hundreds walking the beloved PCT now.
 Even if it could be tried again in another way-  it needs to represent its own new deal.  Because the real ADZPCTKO just can?t be copied.  

I believe it was set up for the last weekend in April designed around a good enough amount of time to hit Ray day June 15th at Kennedy meadows.    And for the record, I have hiked section A at least a dozen times now, in April and in May, and have had both extremes of heat and horrendous snow storms.....yet not once have I had a very hot scissors crossing and climb.   Now I think that?s unusual.

Originally I was Hatchet Jack (don?t talk to me before coffee), but became Sister Sue on my 2011 hike, named by Joe Anderson - (can?t ya just hear him call me ?Sista??)   
See you out there soon.?
Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 21, 2018, at 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> 
> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
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> 
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
> 
> 
> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>      (Paint YW)
>   2. Re: Lake Marina kick off (Scott Bryce)
>   3. Re: Lake Marina kick off (Brick Robbins)
>   4. Jawbone Canyon Road (Jim Banks)
>   5. Re: Jawbone Canyon Road (Gary Schenk)
>   6. Jawbone Canyon Road (Paint YW)
>   7. Re: Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>      (ned at mountaineducation.org)
>   8. Re: Jawbone Canyon Road (Jim Banks)
>   9. Re: Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>      (Paint YW)
>  10. Gathering thoughts (fhjjillw at gmail.com)
>  11.  Lake Marina kick off (Tim Umstead)
>  12. Gear question (Sabrina Harrison)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:26:10 -0700
> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>,
>    susanvirnig at gmail.com,  Amanda Silvestri <aslive at charter.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
>    ADZPCTKO
> Message-ID:
>    <CALu=H=i2hz2hfwdAxiSC7OndMLkqiD5aucuvU5Qj1M0LDXGdnQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
> 
> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes
> off in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has
> surfaced, or wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by
> being held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a
> reconstituted ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held
> on this same weekend.
> 
> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or
> work obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined
> to start en mass due to weather concerns.
> 
> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would
> diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last
> FULL weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
> 
> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits,
> encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and
> assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO)
> the trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key
> sections between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
> 
> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under
> an umbrella organization?
> 
> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and
> the population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet
> this issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
> 
> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO,
> did more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a
> victim of it's own success.
> 
> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be
> best served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO,
> held earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of
> contributing to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend
> to hold such an affair, and it just might be in late February or
> sometime in March. This evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in
> the traditional hiking protocol of a continuous hike, step by step
> north, and instead shifts almost entirely (for early starters) into
> one of a flip flop strategy.
> 
> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
> 
> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have
> been as follows:
> 
> NOBO 2012 04-26
> 
> NOBO 2013 05-20
> 
> NOBO 2014 03-23
> 
> NOBO 2015 03-03
> 
> SOBO 2015 07-10
> 
> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
> 
> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
> 
> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I
> plan to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around
> mile #210.)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Paint
> 
>>>> From a section hiker:
> 
> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ?
> great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the
> border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get
> to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the
> desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made
> life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken
> or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why
> the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to
> start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a
> month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event,
> but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
> 
> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or
> camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month
> earlier.
> 
> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<<
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:56:03 -0600
> From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
> Message-ID: <015e8b9a-b5d8-20ad-b9d4-5b7f5abfdb8a at scottbryce.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
>> On 4/20/2018 9:29 AM, Susan Virnig wrote:
>> Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO
>> used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.
>> If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.
>> (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ?
>> it encouraged many to start then.)
>> 
>> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or
>> camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month
>> earlier.
> 
> And yet the year I attempted my thru hike, it was snowing in the San
> Jacintos in May.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:17:39 -0700
> From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
> Message-ID:
>    <CALV1Nz=38Q-Q_Oaeu-P=8SV+0cT1Oh5KCfhzCQz+AnUUxvvOEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used
> to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it
> was bad for us, we
> couldn?t imagine  starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks
> circled back
> for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)<<
> 
> The date was chosen as a convenient start date to hit Kennedy Meadows
> South around "Ray Day" - June 15, which is a good time to enter the
> Sierra on an "average snow year" if "average" means anything anymore.
> The ADZ date really should be variable based on the seasonal
> precipitation, but it was such a big event, they had to schedule it a
> year in advance
> 
> This year we have a drought in So-Cal so you are experiencing dryer
> conditions than normal. Some years, people leaving in April get snowed
> on in the Lagunas.
> 
> When you hit the Sierra, you may wish you had started later.
> 
> Oh, and if you think things were hot/dry at the border, wait till you
> hit the Mojave.
> 
> HYOH YMMV
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:17:28 -0700
> From: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
> Message-ID: <000601d3d8ec$fd992530$f8cb6f90$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Has anyone had any recent experience with driving Jawbone Canyon Road in
> California Section F?  In particular the section from where it crosses Kelso
> Valley Road and then goes up to the PCT.  Do you need a 4 wheel drive
> vehicle to get up to the PCT or would a 2 wheel drive pickup be able to make
> it?  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:33:06 -0700
> From: "Gary Schenk" <gary at hbfun.org>
> To: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
> Message-ID:
>    <15e30e5159ffb5ffd206264a880b2992.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
>> On Fri, April 20, 2018 2:17 pm, Jim Banks wrote:
>> Has anyone had any recent experience with driving Jawbone Canyon Road in
>> California Section F?  In particular the section from where it crosses
>> Kelso
>> Valley Road and then goes up to the PCT.  Do you need a 4 wheel drive
>> vehicle to get up to the PCT or would a 2 wheel drive pickup be able to
>> make
>> it?  Thanks.
> 
> I-Beam,
> 
> Are you talking about the Geringer Grade section? I did that part of
> Jawbone last year in a Subaru Outback. It was very sandy at one sharp
> curve near the top, that was the tricky part. If you did stop there it
> would be a fairly short walk to PCT. That's probably been graded since
> then. Many years ago I drove that bit in a 2wd pickup. I think you'll be
> OK. Good luck.
> 
> Gary
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 15:15:03 -0700
> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, Jim Banks
>    <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
> Message-ID:
>    <CALu=H=jM3n3pn-=dQO_W1gHRA+U=+kf86euMk7emQZq6tp1zyQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I-Beam- Question?
> 
> I'm looking at a PCT CA Section F map, and Jawbone Canyon Rd. comes up from
> the eastern flank of the Sierra, in a W by NW track, crosses the PCT at
> mile 602.5, up on top, and then T bones into Piute Mnt. Rd., at Claraville
> Flat.
> 
> Piute Mnt. Rd. runs a westerly / easterly track at this intersection. Piute
> Mnt. Rd. tracks E by NE, eventually intersecting with Kelso Valley Rd., at
> a point a few miles as a crow flys above the PCT's mile # 617.
> 
> If this is the road you are inquiring about- then yes, I have traveled that
> road in a Dodge 350 dually truck- and no, a 4WD vehicle is not required.
> 
> For clarity, this route is known as the Harris Grade, and the route from
> the eastern flank of the Sierra, up over the top, is known as the Geringer
> Grade.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Paint
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:48:04 -0700
> From: <ned at mountaineducation.org>
> To: "'Paint YW'" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>,
>    <pct-l at backcountry.net>, <susanvirnig at gmail.com>, "'Amanda Silvestri'"
>    <aslive at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
>    ADZPCTKO
> Message-ID: <05be01d3d8f1$434fd660$c9ef8320$@mountaineducation.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> There are (or were) a lot of PCT veterans monitoring this listserve who date way back to the inception of the KO. I didn't start going until 2005 after being vetted by Hummel and first heard about it.
> 
> Any "party" anywhere near the trail will draw hikers and create a herd-wave, which was the concern of Donna's early on as Hiker Heaven was directly impacted. 
> 
> If the reason for the event is still to be a "kickoff" celebration, then, as Paint said, it should be early in the NoBo thru-hiking season. However, timing is not just the issue, location is another problem as Morena can't hold the numbers it would see.
> 
> I can't help but wonder if this sort of PCT gathering should be patterned after the AT's "Trail Days" event hosted by a town along the trail?
> http://www.traildays.us/  
> 
> I don't know why they do it in May, but if a PCT event was held the end of June in NorCal, and hosted by Seiad Valley, 
> -  people could start any time they wished (not corresponding with a kick-off party down south), 
> -  the resources of an entire town and community along the trail could be involved, and 
> -  the timing would encourage NoBo thrus to get there by that date, causing them 
>    -  to get through the Sierra before the fatal creeks start roaring (usually for 3-4 weeks of intense thaw starting late May)
>    -  allowing them easier, safer passage on still frozen (not thawing) snow
>    -  they avoid the really bad, high-flowing creeks in northern Yosemite, too, and 
>    -  they'll have enough time after to get to Canada before the first snowstorms stop them in their tracks.
>    -  Plus, the SoBo hikers can attend and still start their journeys a few weeks later (roughly)!
> 
> Didn't someone involved with the town of Seiad Valley speak up sometime in the last two years about hosting such an event??
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> ned at mountaineducation.org 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:26 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; susanvirnig at gmail.com; Amanda Silvestri <aslive at charter.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
> 
> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
> 
> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes off in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has surfaced, or wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by being held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a reconstituted ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held on this same weekend.
> 
> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or work obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined to start en mass due to weather concerns.
> 
> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last FULL weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
> 
> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits, encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO) the trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key sections between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
> 
> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under an umbrella organization?
> 
> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and the population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet this issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
> 
> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO, did more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a victim of it's own success.
> 
> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be best served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO, held earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of contributing to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend to hold such an affair, and it just might be in late February or sometime in March. This evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in the traditional hiking protocol of a continuous hike, step by step north, and instead shifts almost entirely (for early starters) into one of a flip flop strategy.
> 
> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
> 
> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have been as follows:
> 
> NOBO 2012 04-26
> 
> NOBO 2013 05-20
> 
> NOBO 2014 03-23
> 
> NOBO 2015 03-03
> 
> SOBO 2015 07-10
> 
> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
> 
> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
> 
> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I plan to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around mile #210.)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Paint
> 
>>>> From a section hiker:
> 
> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
> 
> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.
> 
> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<< _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 15:47:32 -0700
> From: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> To: "'Paint YW'" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>,
>    <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
> Message-ID: <001601d3d8f9$92518a30$b6f49e90$@verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> Yes, those are the roads I am talking about.  Thanks for the information.
> 
> 
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> 
> 
> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> 
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:15 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> Subject: Jawbone Canyon Road
> 
> 
> 
> I-Beam- Question? 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking at a PCT CA Section F map, and Jawbone Canyon Rd. comes up from the eastern flank of the Sierra, in a W by NW track, crosses the PCT at mile 602.5, up on top, and then T bones into Piute Mnt. Rd., at Claraville Flat. 
> 
> 
> 
> Piute Mnt. Rd. runs a westerly / easterly track at this intersection. Piute Mnt. Rd. tracks E by NE, eventually intersecting with Kelso Valley Rd., at a point a few miles as a crow flys above the PCT's mile # 617. 
> 
> 
> 
> If this is the road you are inquiring about- then yes, I have traveled that road in a Dodge 350 dually truck- and no, a 4WD vehicle is not required.
> 
> 
> 
> For clarity, this route is known as the Harris Grade, and the route from the eastern flank of the Sierra, up over the top, is known as the Geringer Grade. 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Paint 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:13:47 -0700
> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> To: ned at mountaineducation.org
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
>    ADZPCTKO
> Message-ID:
>    <CALu=H=gd5bF9E-r43Puw9JFjRwjJNsiMAw9BY4iF59vODmCV3A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Ned,
> 
> You make several good points and I really don't disagree with much of
> anything that you said.
> 
> However, I see two unique events being discussed. Model A- a pre hike
> event, and Model B- a hike underway event.
> 
> I don't think there will ever be a kick off (in the sense that it was) nor
> that is sanctioned or attended to, by most of the official organizations
> that did so, at one time or another. I hold out a modest amount of hope
> that if a much earlier kick off did take place, it would be supported in
> the right way, by the right people and organizations from the hiking
> community.
> 
> The party aspect is the least of any reason for my attending.
> 
> An intangible, the affirmation, manifested by the tangible, the gathering,
> motivates me the most. To each their own.
> 
> I was viewing a reconstituted kick off as a draw, to bring more hikers out
> earlier, in fact substantially earlier, if at all possible. The hikers
> would have to use a flip flop strategy, which would aid in dispersing
> hikers along the trail.
> 
> Obviously, there IS an unknown (early) date that would be TOO early in the
> season to hold a kick off and yet still accomplish what I have suggested,
> so the key would be to figure out what the optimum date might be.
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Paint
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 2:48 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
>> 
>> There are (or were) a lot of PCT veterans monitoring this listserve who
>> date way back to the inception of the KO. I didn't start going until 2005
>> after being vetted by Hummel and first heard about it.
>> 
>> Any "party" anywhere near the trail will draw hikers and create a
>> herd-wave, which was the concern of Donna's early on as Hiker Heaven was
>> directly impacted.
>> 
>> If the reason for the event is still to be a "kickoff" celebration, then,
>> as Paint said, it should be early in the NoBo thru-hiking season. However,
>> timing is not just the issue, location is another problem as Morena can't
>> hold the numbers it would see.
>> 
>> I can't help but wonder if this sort of PCT gathering should be patterned
>> after the AT's "Trail Days" event hosted by a town along the trail?
>> http://www.traildays.us/
>> 
>> I don't know why they do it in May, but if a PCT event was held the end of
>> June in NorCal, and hosted by Seiad Valley,
>> -  people could start any time they wished (not corresponding with a
>> kick-off party down south),
>> -  the resources of an entire town and community along the trail could be
>> involved, and
>> -  the timing would encourage NoBo thrus to get there by that date,
>> causing them
>>        -  to get through the Sierra before the fatal creeks start roaring
>> (usually for 3-4 weeks of intense thaw starting late May)
>>        -  allowing them easier, safer passage on still frozen (not
>> thawing) snow
>>        -  they avoid the really bad, high-flowing creeks in northern
>> Yosemite, too, and
>>        -  they'll have enough time after to get to Canada before the
>> first snowstorms stop them in their tracks.
>>        -  Plus, the SoBo hikers can attend and still start their journeys
>> a few weeks later (roughly)!
>> 
>> Didn't someone involved with the town of Seiad Valley speak up sometime in
>> the last two years about hosting such an event??
>> 
>> 
>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>> Mountain Education, Inc.
>> ned at mountaineducation.org
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:26 AM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; susanvirnig at gmail.com; Amanda Silvestri <
>> aslive at charter.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>> 
>> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
>> 
>> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes off
>> in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has surfaced, or
>> wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
>> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by being
>> held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a reconstituted
>> ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held on this same
>> weekend.
>> 
>> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or work
>> obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined to start
>> en mass due to weather concerns.
>> 
>> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would
>> diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last FULL
>> weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
>> 
>> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits,
>> encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and
>> assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO) the
>> trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key sections
>> between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
>> 
>> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under an
>> umbrella organization?
>> 
>> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and the
>> population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet this
>> issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
>> 
>> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
>> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO, did
>> more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a victim of
>> it's own success.
>> 
>> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be best
>> served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO, held
>> earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of contributing
>> to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend to hold such an
>> affair, and it just might be in late February or sometime in March. This
>> evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in the traditional hiking
>> protocol of a continuous hike, step by step north, and instead shifts
>> almost entirely (for early starters) into one of a flip flop strategy.
>> 
>> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
>> 
>> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have been
>> as follows:
>> 
>> NOBO 2012 04-26
>> 
>> NOBO 2013 05-20
>> 
>> NOBO 2014 03-23
>> 
>> NOBO 2015 03-03
>> 
>> SOBO 2015 07-10
>> 
>> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
>> 
>> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
>> 
>> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I plan
>> to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around mile #210.)
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>>>>> From a section hiker:
>> 
>> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great
>> burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake
>> Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each
>> time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat
>> and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most
>> water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us
>> commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in
>> late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we
>> couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks
>> circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
>> 
>> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping
>> with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.
>> 
>> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<<
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:58:45 -0700
> From: fhjjillw at gmail.com
> To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
> Message-ID: <36EAC5F9-0388-44BA-8E23-18B0D4E95354 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> If one of the main purposes of the April kick-off was information gathering, pack shake downs, gear evaluation etc. why not use the Ruck format to accomplish that purpose?   That way people can acquire their gear ahead of time. The Rucks happen in the winter months and are spread out geographically enabling more people to attend. The ?party? could be the ALDHA gathering in the fall.
> 
> Jill, Breakaway 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:19:47 -0700
> From: Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com>
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l]  Lake Marina kick off
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD3yqM3WjisDjgYhZpeJcyT_5CxOjDDQDsngbqK3bo9mFyg9bQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
>> From the beginning I have missed 4 or 5 of the KOP's, and most of those
> were toward the end.  When we hiked the PCT in 2015 we skipped the KOP,
> just to avoid all the people and have a few days of trail to ourselves.
> I'm not sad that the KOP's have ended, but I really did like seeing all of
> the ultra-light gear from companies that you do not find in a REI like
> store; Gossamer Gear, Z-Packs, Six Moons, and such like.
> 
> If I remember correctly, The KOP starting date was picked to line
> thru-hikers up to hike into the Sierras during an average rainfall year.
> Look at last year, snow fall was about double an average year.  To hit the
> Sierras at the right time you needed to start late.  If you start later it
> will be hot in So Ca.  That is all there is to it.  The faster you are the
> later you need to start.  I started the PCT on 4/12/96 and 4/19/15.  Not a
> bad time.  It did get a little hot but not to bad, maybe the 90's.  Note: I
> live in San Diego County, day hikes in the 90's is not abnormal.  In fact,
> it is fun to hike by people hiding in the shade and it is only in the low
> 80's.
> 
> Side note:  Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO.  Well in
> the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO.  It was Annual
> Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party.  At some point they dropped
> the Party.  I never did.
> 
> Papa Raven
> The Ravens
> PCT '96, '15
> CDT '17
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 07:28:56 -0500
> From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
> To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Gear question
> Message-ID: <12DC7147-4FAA-4DFF-9664-BE6CF280DAEA at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
> 
> Help me think this through - I have a z packs rain skirt and have considered unzipping it and using it as a small tarp under my tent. It?s roughly the size of my trunk area, would go to my knees. 
> 
> Any reason this would be a bad idea? 
> 
> Obviously this is less about weight and more about having an efficient kit where everything has earned its right to be in my pack :D 
> 
> GoGo
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 17
> **************************************


From carlito at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 13:30:07 2018
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 14:30:07 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM3WjisDjgYhZpeJcyT_5CxOjDDQDsngbqK3bo9mFyg9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM3WjisDjgYhZpeJcyT_5CxOjDDQDsngbqK3bo9mFyg9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Not true. Others called it a party, but the ADZPCTKO organizers never did.
"Party" was never part of the name.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:19 AM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Side note:  Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO.  Well in
> the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO.  It was Annual
> Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party.  At some point they dropped
> the Party.  I never did.
>
>

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Sun Apr 22 13:57:22 2018
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 11:57:22 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM3WjisDjgYhZpeJcyT_5CxOjDDQDsngbqK3bo9mFyg9bQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001d3da6b$c0670850$413518f0$@verizon.net>

Carl, you probably noticed the little flurry of posts recently about
bringing back the KO in some sort of modified form, date, location.  As one
of the original organizers what are your thoughts about whether it is
practical to think that some sort modified version of the KO (maybe with a
different date/location/emphasis) could work?  Also, do any of the original
organizers have any interest in doing so?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.  Because of your experience with the KO, I
think your opinion would be highly regarded.

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Carl Siechert
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 11:30 AM
To: Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com>
Cc: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off

Not true. Others called it a party, but the ADZPCTKO organizers never did.
"Party" was never part of the name.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:19 AM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Side note:  Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO.  
> Well in the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO.  It 
> was Annual Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party.  At some point 
> they dropped the Party.  I never did.
>
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Sun Apr 22 17:24:34 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:24:34 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <162ef75722c-c8d-ae84@webjas-vac177.srv.aolmail.net>

None of my shirts that I bought at the K O have a P 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Sunday, April 22, 2018 Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:
Not true. Others called it a party, but the ADZPCTKO organizers never did.
"Party" was never part of the name.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:19 AM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Side note: Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO. Well in
> the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO. It was Annual
> Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party. At some point they dropped
> the Party. I never did.
>
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 17:26:53 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 15:26:53 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] One more time- PCT 2017 Class Video [ 3rd request ]
Message-ID: <CALu=H=g_M9Xgh4J1uxq3Gda-cOZ3JnPFUDRhX4mPqxbSU563_g@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone know anything at all about the PCT 2017 Class Video?

Thanks,

Paint

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sun Apr 22 18:32:15 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:32:15 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena County Park Kick Off Official Story
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkUzb44T=kFVAO0qgWS9cuqp-sZDtCBQrhq4BEruH9o9w@mail.gmail.com>

Here it is the story in all it's glory.

Sometimes people put the "P" on the end (I always did) but I don't think
the organizers ever did

http://www.pct77.org/adz/official_story.htm

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 19:27:01 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 17:27:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <162ef75722c-c8d-ae84@webjas-vac177.srv.aolmail.net>
References: <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <162ef75722c-c8d-ae84@webjas-vac177.srv.aolmail.net>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gjqX9iyDnO_wWCVxeE6bSfCv6=sfPhYEkcQFYnEzUkzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ground Pounder Bill !

What up G Dog? Lol

Hey- What are you talking about?

I attended the 2012 Kick Off and I heard that there were naked hikers
wrestling in chocolate at the Anderson's campsite. Not true.

They wrestled at the Anderson's house, at mile # 478 ! Lol.

I attended the 2012 Kick Off and heard that an individual had a lawn and
leaf sized bag full of brownies and were giving them away. True.

Up trail, I was hungry and low on food, so my hiking companion shared a few
brownies with me. Lol.

He said somebody back at the Kick Off, had a lawn and leaf sized bag full
of brownies, and he took about 100 brownies for himself. Lol.

Yes- people partied at the Kick Off. And- many other people did not. I
didn't even know of the Anderson's, or much else about the Kick Off, until
attending, and I sure as hell didn't have the guts to go over to the
Anderson's campsite, but I wanted to! Lol.

Keepin' it real!

Paint

PS The Kick Off for me, was a life affirming event, that was a high five,
fist bump, back slap, hand up, kick in the pants, barrel full of monkeys
extravaganza, like none that I had ever participated in, over and above a
full and well lived life. I found out later, that I was undertaking
(unbeknownst at the time) a life changing event, which I resisted
embracing, with great effort, only to succumb (eventually) to the sweet
seductiveness of the PCT trail hiking experience.

I am Paint Your wagon, and I approve of this message.





On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 3:24 PM, William E Frenette <
groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net> wrote:

> None of my shirts that I bought at the K O have a P
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
>
> On Sunday, April 22, 2018 Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not true. Others called it a party, but the ADZPCTKO organizers never did.
> "Party" was never part of the name.
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:19 AM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Side note: Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO. Well in
> > the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO. It was Annual
> > Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party. At some point they dropped
> > the Party. I never did.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 20:06:52 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:06:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
In-Reply-To: <CABAzAtHzL6OTX6amRd5WdfWc4wLiRhbfQ2_Hph-hphRVn89New@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK1x7VnjD86YfCm8M=rcubQM6D2-DGsQu2Tq09X4OAtXme7VPQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <162ef75722c-c8d-ae84@webjas-vac177.srv.aolmail.net>
 <CALu=H=gjqX9iyDnO_wWCVxeE6bSfCv6=sfPhYEkcQFYnEzUkzQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABAzAtHzL6OTX6amRd5WdfWc4wLiRhbfQ2_Hph-hphRVn89New@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=ix0qsdYMPVKTFDFrvvWOmZbMdGXNGKVoOT0sZPobATzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Your comment leaves me questioning your take on the Kick Off... no
disrespect- Rip it up / Tear it down... what?

Thanks,

Paint

PS

State your business pilgrim. Lol. and- have fun doing it!

PSS

Sometime, in responding to an email from the thread, the format ends up
being a response to an individual, and then winds up bypassing the List
Serve. Tru Dat.

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 5:46 PM, Stephen Clark <rowriver at gmail.com> wrote:

> Every year there were hikers that tried to turn it into a party but the
> Admin., Programs, and Vendors  were all business. A few volunteers can only
> do so much with over 800 hikers....
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 5:27 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ground Pounder Bill !
>>
>> What up G Dog? Lol
>>
>> Hey- What are you talking about?
>>
>> I attended the 2012 Kick Off and I heard that there were naked hikers
>> wrestling in chocolate at the Anderson's campsite. Not true.
>>
>> They wrestled at the Anderson's house, at mile # 478 ! Lol.
>>
>> I attended the 2012 Kick Off and heard that an individual had a lawn and
>> leaf sized bag full of brownies and were giving them away. True.
>>
>> Up trail, I was hungry and low on food, so my hiking companion shared a
>> few
>> brownies with me. Lol.
>>
>> He said somebody back at the Kick Off, had a lawn and leaf sized bag full
>> of brownies, and he took about 100 brownies for himself. Lol.
>>
>> Yes- people partied at the Kick Off. And- many other people did not. I
>> didn't even know of the Anderson's, or much else about the Kick Off, until
>> attending, and I sure as hell didn't have the guts to go over to the
>> Anderson's campsite, but I wanted to! Lol.
>>
>> Keepin' it real!
>>
>> Paint
>>
>> PS The Kick Off for me, was a life affirming event, that was a high five,
>> fist bump, back slap, hand up, kick in the pants, barrel full of monkeys
>> extravaganza, like none that I had ever participated in, over and above a
>> full and well lived life. I found out later, that I was undertaking
>> (unbeknownst at the time) a life changing event, which I resisted
>> embracing, with great effort, only to succumb (eventually) to the sweet
>> seductiveness of the PCT trail hiking experience.
>>
>> I am Paint Your wagon, and I approve of this message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 3:24 PM, William E Frenette <
>> groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > None of my shirts that I bought at the K O have a P
>> >
>> > Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>> > Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
>> >
>> > On Sunday, April 22, 2018 Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Not true. Others called it a party, but the ADZPCTKO organizers never
>> did.
>> > "Party" was never part of the name.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:19 AM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Side note: Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO. Well
>> in
>> > > the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO. It was
>> Annual
>> > > Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party. At some point they
>> dropped
>> > > the Party. I never did.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 20:43:39 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:43:39 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena County Park Kick Off Official Story
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gsbSBznfoxPK4TSFKdmMi=-ojPzbYed+bWhv1mNSPZug@mail.gmail.com>

  Lake Morena County Park Kick Off Official Story
Wow!

Good stuff!

http://www.pct77.org/adz/official_story.htm

Thank you outstanding human beings.

Nice to make your acquaintance.

Paint

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sun Apr 22 21:55:46 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 19:55:46 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd:  Lake Morena County Park Kick Off Official Story
In-Reply-To: <3A48BF13-BD26-49F2-A9B9-570ADFA3ED3C@gmail.com>
References: <CALV1NzkUzb44T=kFVAO0qgWS9cuqp-sZDtCBQrhq4BEruH9o9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <3A48BF13-BD26-49F2-A9B9-570ADFA3ED3C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzka4wB5AKczpODB7K+_2MbGxYvzaXP52LydomiZL3UuXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Forwarded to the list by Kelly's request

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kelly Baraga <kellyhikes2 at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Morena County Park Kick Off Official Story
To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>


Thank you for sharing this. I don?t believe I ever took the time to read
the story of the beginnings. I hiked the PCT 2015 and only by Gods grace
and the help of too many people to name, I had the pleasure of standing on
the border of Canada 5 months & 5 days later. As I was reading this, I was
reminded that my final day on the trail September 15th 2015, I met two
unnamed guys who had camped a few miles south of the border. They had just
walked to the terminus, had a toast to their good friend ?Strider? and held
good to their promise to honor their amazing friend in the fashion that he
deserved. I was taken back with tears, but moreso with gratitude for
Strider & so many others who took time to care for all the hiker trash that
wore out numerous soles attempting to walk the glorious trail called the
Pacific Crest. I know that this was a journey that has changed my life in
more ways than I can count. Thank you all for allowing me the opportunity
to hike from Mexico to Canada. May you all know that you are appreciated
for your wisdom, guidance and support that you offered this mere mortal.
Godspeed and here?s to you ?Strider? !

GiGi, Class of 2015

> On Apr 22, 2018, at 4:32 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
>
> Here it is the story in all it's glory.
>
> Sometimes people put the "P" on the end (I always did) but I don't think
> the organizers ever did
>
> http://www.pct77.org/adz/official_story.htm
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 22:33:54 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:33:54 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena County Park Kick Off Official Story
Message-ID: <CALu=H=i_Q+5Yji=2vt252TAMA7Qrmgg2=kvob46EbNRCRwxusQ@mail.gmail.com>

Kelly,

Thank you for your wonderful post. In all of the back and fourths,
acknowledging the organizers of the Kick Off, is something that deserves a
good bit of attention. They are kind of like all of the unsung heroes that
maintain the trail, flying under the radar and seeking no glory, performing
what it is they do, for the rest of us, touching as many hikers as is
possible, for their own altruistic motives, the sneaky little guardian
angels that they are.

Thank you to all contributors- and posthumously, to those that have taken
the unchartered and not so maintained trails cross country.

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun Apr 22 22:41:46 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:41:46 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Veterans Walk 2,700 Miles to Help Their Own
Message-ID: <CALu=H=j07USKv37QcqBWse7k55odDxUpiwB9jv1fTmm+d3g0aw@mail.gmail.com>

Milwaukee, WI, to Santa Monica, CA. Roadwalk... some interesting
correlations to hiking yee old trail.

http://adventureblog.nationalgeographic.com/2016/05/26/veterans-walk-2700-miles-to-help-their-own/#.Wt1SyGgj-z0.twitter

Enjoy,

Paint

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Mon Apr 23 08:06:02 2018
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:06:02 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 17
In-Reply-To: <5B2AE070-E30F-4AE4-A058-0607AAB86DA3@comcast.net>
References: <mailman.1.1524330000.54907.pct-l@backcountry.net>,
 <5B2AE070-E30F-4AE4-A058-0607AAB86DA3@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <MWHPR0401MB3532FF0CEE28DF8132261F2AC8890@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>


As someone who volunteered at the KO for years now, I know the massive amount of work and organization it required. I was never an organizer ---just wanted to help. Help was always needed. That's what the KO was supposed to be --help and affirmation for the attempt to hike the trail.
For those who are suggesting other replacement events, remember they do exist--without concentrating the hikers as they start the trail. ALDHAwest now puts on 5 Rucks in 5 different locations. They are one day intensive on how to do a long trail. They are Feb through March each year. We have been putting on the Gathering since 1993 every Oct. It rotates through 4 states. ALDHA(east) has a similar program. I went to my first ALDHA(east) Gathering in 1987 when I didn't even know what went into a backpack. There is supposedly a ALDHA-mid west forming. Some people contacted us about forming it some years ago
I miss the big KO too but the surprise help and smaller Rucks just might be more useful. And every year the Gathering is wonderful. It's a perfect way to reunite with my hiker friends and cry at each hikers story when we are handing out the Triple Crowns
Marmot
Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 22, 2018, at 11:23 AM, Sue <sue.kettles at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I think my first KO was in 2006.  As each year happened, It was a smaller, lovely time of likeminded lovers of trail life to gather and share stories and watch hiking and Squatch movies on that big tyvek screen under the stars.  It was magical.   Patting the eager ?thrus? with their big wide eyes on the back and saying ?You can do this! ?
>  But then came ?Wild?...and the trail life grew from 400 a year to 4000 a year.   Times have changed- for better for worse.  Life happens!
> 
> But I?ll cherish the old days in my heart. Strider, Asabat, Capt Bivy, .....gone and never forgotten.....Warner springs Monte cooking all that food! ,  Georgie sitting there with her spinning yarn thing?, even the pirate guy with his trail inventions for lighter weight, the Andersons camped by the trail to cheer as each person walked into Morena-  I felt like a queen that day.  
> All the gear options were set up to look at during the day- so helpful. Doesn?t take more than a day or two or carrying a heavy pack to understand that you need to carry less weight.  It was just such fun comradeship. Not sure who played the bagpipes of amazing grace in the mornings but that was sooo cool.   
> I remember one year hiking from Warner springs south into the KO and meeting so many newbies in their zeal and joy heading north. I was with Squatch and Splash - we were S-Troop.  Squatch was interviewing hikers that year for his first or 2nd Pct film.  Because of both Splash and Squatch?s gregarious funny nature I met so many new friends (I am a quieter shy type) , just being along for the hike with both of them was a big help for me.  In the fall, Splash and I hiked Stevens pass south to Snoqualmie and met at least a dozen of these same people we had met back in late April.  It?s was fabulous to witness this huge transformation of personality in them-  in April so timid and starry eyed and in wonder,,,,,,and now the hardened tanned bodies, confidence, and the stories of magic they shared.  I?ll not forget those encounters either.  
> 
> You just can?t do something (the KO) that seemed so intimate with all the hundred and hundreds walking the beloved PCT now.
> Even if it could be tried again in another way-  it needs to represent its own new deal.  Because the real ADZPCTKO just can?t be copied.  
> 
> I believe it was set up for the last weekend in April designed around a good enough amount of time to hit Ray day June 15th at Kennedy meadows.    And for the record, I have hiked section A at least a dozen times now, in April and in May, and have had both extremes of heat and horrendous snow storms.....yet not once have I had a very hot scissors crossing and climb.   Now I think that?s unusual.
> 
> Originally I was Hatchet Jack (don?t talk to me before coffee), but became Sister Sue on my 2011 hike, named by Joe Anderson - (can?t ya just hear him call me ?Sista??)   
> See you out there soon.?
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 21, 2018, at 12:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>> 
>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
>>   pct-l at backcountry.net
>> 
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>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>   pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>>     (Paint YW)
>>  2. Re: Lake Marina kick off (Scott Bryce)
>>  3. Re: Lake Marina kick off (Brick Robbins)
>>  4. Jawbone Canyon Road (Jim Banks)
>>  5. Re: Jawbone Canyon Road (Gary Schenk)
>>  6. Jawbone Canyon Road (Paint YW)
>>  7. Re: Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>>     (ned at mountaineducation.org)
>>  8. Re: Jawbone Canyon Road (Jim Banks)
>>  9. Re: Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>>     (Paint YW)
>> 10. Gathering thoughts (fhjjillw at gmail.com)
>> 11.  Lake Marina kick off (Tim Umstead)
>> 12. Gear question (Sabrina Harrison)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:26:10 -0700
>> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>,
>>   susanvirnig at gmail.com,  Amanda Silvestri <aslive at charter.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
>>   ADZPCTKO
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALu=H=i2hz2hfwdAxiSC7OndMLkqiD5aucuvU5Qj1M0LDXGdnQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
>> 
>> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes
>> off in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has
>> surfaced, or wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
>> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by
>> being held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a
>> reconstituted ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held
>> on this same weekend.
>> 
>> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or
>> work obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined
>> to start en mass due to weather concerns.
>> 
>> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would
>> diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last
>> FULL weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
>> 
>> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits,
>> encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and
>> assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO)
>> the trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key
>> sections between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
>> 
>> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under
>> an umbrella organization?
>> 
>> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and
>> the population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet
>> this issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
>> 
>> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
>> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO,
>> did more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a
>> victim of it's own success.
>> 
>> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be
>> best served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO,
>> held earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of
>> contributing to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend
>> to hold such an affair, and it just might be in late February or
>> sometime in March. This evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in
>> the traditional hiking protocol of a continuous hike, step by step
>> north, and instead shifts almost entirely (for early starters) into
>> one of a flip flop strategy.
>> 
>> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
>> 
>> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have
>> been as follows:
>> 
>> NOBO 2012 04-26
>> 
>> NOBO 2013 05-20
>> 
>> NOBO 2014 03-23
>> 
>> NOBO 2015 03-03
>> 
>> SOBO 2015 07-10
>> 
>> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
>> 
>> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
>> 
>> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I
>> plan to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around
>> mile #210.)
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>>>>> From a section hiker:
>> 
>> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ?
>> great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the
>> border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get
>> to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the
>> desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made
>> life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken
>> or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why
>> the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to
>> start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a
>> month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event,
>> but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
>> 
>> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or
>> camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month
>> earlier.
>> 
>> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<<
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:56:03 -0600
>> From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
>> Message-ID: <015e8b9a-b5d8-20ad-b9d4-5b7f5abfdb8a at scottbryce.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> 
>>> On 4/20/2018 9:29 AM, Susan Virnig wrote:
>>> Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO
>>> used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.
>>> If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.
>>> (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ?
>>> it encouraged many to start then.)
>>> 
>>> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or
>>> camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month
>>> earlier.
>> 
>> And yet the year I attempted my thru hike, it was snowing in the San
>> Jacintos in May.
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 12:17:39 -0700
>> From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALV1Nz=38Q-Q_Oaeu-P=8SV+0cT1Oh5KCfhzCQz+AnUUxvvOEg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 8:29 AM, Susan Virnig <susanvirnig at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used
>> to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it
>> was bad for us, we
>> couldn?t imagine  starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks
>> circled back
>> for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)<<
>> 
>> The date was chosen as a convenient start date to hit Kennedy Meadows
>> South around "Ray Day" - June 15, which is a good time to enter the
>> Sierra on an "average snow year" if "average" means anything anymore.
>> The ADZ date really should be variable based on the seasonal
>> precipitation, but it was such a big event, they had to schedule it a
>> year in advance
>> 
>> This year we have a drought in So-Cal so you are experiencing dryer
>> conditions than normal. Some years, people leaving in April get snowed
>> on in the Lagunas.
>> 
>> When you hit the Sierra, you may wish you had started later.
>> 
>> Oh, and if you think things were hot/dry at the border, wait till you
>> hit the Mojave.
>> 
>> HYOH YMMV
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:17:28 -0700
>> From: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
>> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
>> Message-ID: <000601d3d8ec$fd992530$f8cb6f90$@verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> Has anyone had any recent experience with driving Jawbone Canyon Road in
>> California Section F?  In particular the section from where it crosses Kelso
>> Valley Road and then goes up to the PCT.  Do you need a 4 wheel drive
>> vehicle to get up to the PCT or would a 2 wheel drive pickup be able to make
>> it?  Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I-Beam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:33:06 -0700
>> From: "Gary Schenk" <gary at hbfun.org>
>> To: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
>> Message-ID:
>>   <15e30e5159ffb5ffd206264a880b2992.squirrel at sm.webmail.pair.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
>> 
>>> On Fri, April 20, 2018 2:17 pm, Jim Banks wrote:
>>> Has anyone had any recent experience with driving Jawbone Canyon Road in
>>> California Section F?  In particular the section from where it crosses
>>> Kelso
>>> Valley Road and then goes up to the PCT.  Do you need a 4 wheel drive
>>> vehicle to get up to the PCT or would a 2 wheel drive pickup be able to
>>> make
>>> it?  Thanks.
>> 
>> I-Beam,
>> 
>> Are you talking about the Geringer Grade section? I did that part of
>> Jawbone last year in a Subaru Outback. It was very sandy at one sharp
>> curve near the top, that was the tricky part. If you did stop there it
>> would be a fairly short walk to PCT. That's probably been graded since
>> then. Many years ago I drove that bit in a 2wd pickup. I think you'll be
>> OK. Good luck.
>> 
>> Gary
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 15:15:03 -0700
>> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, Jim Banks
>>   <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALu=H=jM3n3pn-=dQO_W1gHRA+U=+kf86euMk7emQZq6tp1zyQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> I-Beam- Question?
>> 
>> I'm looking at a PCT CA Section F map, and Jawbone Canyon Rd. comes up from
>> the eastern flank of the Sierra, in a W by NW track, crosses the PCT at
>> mile 602.5, up on top, and then T bones into Piute Mnt. Rd., at Claraville
>> Flat.
>> 
>> Piute Mnt. Rd. runs a westerly / easterly track at this intersection. Piute
>> Mnt. Rd. tracks E by NE, eventually intersecting with Kelso Valley Rd., at
>> a point a few miles as a crow flys above the PCT's mile # 617.
>> 
>> If this is the road you are inquiring about- then yes, I have traveled that
>> road in a Dodge 350 dually truck- and no, a 4WD vehicle is not required.
>> 
>> For clarity, this route is known as the Harris Grade, and the route from
>> the eastern flank of the Sierra, up over the top, is known as the Geringer
>> Grade.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 14:48:04 -0700
>> From: <ned at mountaineducation.org>
>> To: "'Paint YW'" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>,
>>   <pct-l at backcountry.net>, <susanvirnig at gmail.com>, "'Amanda Silvestri'"
>>   <aslive at charter.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
>>   ADZPCTKO
>> Message-ID: <05be01d3d8f1$434fd660$c9ef8320$@mountaineducation.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> There are (or were) a lot of PCT veterans monitoring this listserve who date way back to the inception of the KO. I didn't start going until 2005 after being vetted by Hummel and first heard about it.
>> 
>> Any "party" anywhere near the trail will draw hikers and create a herd-wave, which was the concern of Donna's early on as Hiker Heaven was directly impacted. 
>> 
>> If the reason for the event is still to be a "kickoff" celebration, then, as Paint said, it should be early in the NoBo thru-hiking season. However, timing is not just the issue, location is another problem as Morena can't hold the numbers it would see.
>> 
>> I can't help but wonder if this sort of PCT gathering should be patterned after the AT's "Trail Days" event hosted by a town along the trail?
>> http://www.traildays.us/  
>> 
>> I don't know why they do it in May, but if a PCT event was held the end of June in NorCal, and hosted by Seiad Valley, 
>> -  people could start any time they wished (not corresponding with a kick-off party down south), 
>> -  the resources of an entire town and community along the trail could be involved, and 
>> -  the timing would encourage NoBo thrus to get there by that date, causing them 
>>   -  to get through the Sierra before the fatal creeks start roaring (usually for 3-4 weeks of intense thaw starting late May)
>>   -  allowing them easier, safer passage on still frozen (not thawing) snow
>>   -  they avoid the really bad, high-flowing creeks in northern Yosemite, too, and 
>>   -  they'll have enough time after to get to Canada before the first snowstorms stop them in their tracks.
>>   -  Plus, the SoBo hikers can attend and still start their journeys a few weeks later (roughly)!
>> 
>> Didn't someone involved with the town of Seiad Valley speak up sometime in the last two years about hosting such an event??
>> 
>> 
>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>> Mountain Education, Inc.
>> ned at mountaineducation.org 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:26 AM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; susanvirnig at gmail.com; Amanda Silvestri <aslive at charter.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>> 
>> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
>> 
>> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes off in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has surfaced, or wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
>> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by being held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a reconstituted ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held on this same weekend.
>> 
>> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or work obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined to start en mass due to weather concerns.
>> 
>> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last FULL weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
>> 
>> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits, encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO) the trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key sections between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
>> 
>> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under an umbrella organization?
>> 
>> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and the population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet this issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
>> 
>> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
>> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO, did more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a victim of it's own success.
>> 
>> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be best served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO, held earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of contributing to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend to hold such an affair, and it just might be in late February or sometime in March. This evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in the traditional hiking protocol of a continuous hike, step by step north, and instead shifts almost entirely (for early starters) into one of a flip flop strategy.
>> 
>> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
>> 
>> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have been as follows:
>> 
>> NOBO 2012 04-26
>> 
>> NOBO 2013 05-20
>> 
>> NOBO 2014 03-23
>> 
>> NOBO 2015 03-03
>> 
>> SOBO 2015 07-10
>> 
>> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
>> 
>> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
>> 
>> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I plan to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around mile #210.)
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>>>>> From a section hiker:
>> 
>> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
>> 
>> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.
>> 
>> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<< _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 15:47:32 -0700
>> From: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
>> To: "'Paint YW'" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>,
>>   <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jawbone Canyon Road
>> Message-ID: <001601d3d8f9$92518a30$b6f49e90$@verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Yes, those are the roads I am talking about.  Thanks for the information.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I-Beam
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> 
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:15 PM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
>> Subject: Jawbone Canyon Road
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I-Beam- Question? 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm looking at a PCT CA Section F map, and Jawbone Canyon Rd. comes up from the eastern flank of the Sierra, in a W by NW track, crosses the PCT at mile 602.5, up on top, and then T bones into Piute Mnt. Rd., at Claraville Flat. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Piute Mnt. Rd. runs a westerly / easterly track at this intersection. Piute Mnt. Rd. tracks E by NE, eventually intersecting with Kelso Valley Rd., at a point a few miles as a crow flys above the PCT's mile # 617. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If this is the road you are inquiring about- then yes, I have traveled that road in a Dodge 350 dually truck- and no, a 4WD vehicle is not required.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For clarity, this route is known as the Harris Grade, and the route from the eastern flank of the Sierra, up over the top, is known as the Geringer Grade. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paint 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:13:47 -0700
>> From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
>> To: ned at mountaineducation.org
>> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS /
>>   ADZPCTKO
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALu=H=gd5bF9E-r43Puw9JFjRwjJNsiMAw9BY4iF59vODmCV3A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> Ned,
>> 
>> You make several good points and I really don't disagree with much of
>> anything that you said.
>> 
>> However, I see two unique events being discussed. Model A- a pre hike
>> event, and Model B- a hike underway event.
>> 
>> I don't think there will ever be a kick off (in the sense that it was) nor
>> that is sanctioned or attended to, by most of the official organizations
>> that did so, at one time or another. I hold out a modest amount of hope
>> that if a much earlier kick off did take place, it would be supported in
>> the right way, by the right people and organizations from the hiking
>> community.
>> 
>> The party aspect is the least of any reason for my attending.
>> 
>> An intangible, the affirmation, manifested by the tangible, the gathering,
>> motivates me the most. To each their own.
>> 
>> I was viewing a reconstituted kick off as a draw, to bring more hikers out
>> earlier, in fact substantially earlier, if at all possible. The hikers
>> would have to use a flip flop strategy, which would aid in dispersing
>> hikers along the trail.
>> 
>> Obviously, there IS an unknown (early) date that would be TOO early in the
>> season to hold a kick off and yet still accomplish what I have suggested,
>> so the key would be to figure out what the optimum date might be.
>> 
>> All the best,
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 2:48 PM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There are (or were) a lot of PCT veterans monitoring this listserve who
>>> date way back to the inception of the KO. I didn't start going until 2005
>>> after being vetted by Hummel and first heard about it.
>>> 
>>> Any "party" anywhere near the trail will draw hikers and create a
>>> herd-wave, which was the concern of Donna's early on as Hiker Heaven was
>>> directly impacted.
>>> 
>>> If the reason for the event is still to be a "kickoff" celebration, then,
>>> as Paint said, it should be early in the NoBo thru-hiking season. However,
>>> timing is not just the issue, location is another problem as Morena can't
>>> hold the numbers it would see.
>>> 
>>> I can't help but wonder if this sort of PCT gathering should be patterned
>>> after the AT's "Trail Days" event hosted by a town along the trail?
>>> http://www.traildays.us/
>>> 
>>> I don't know why they do it in May, but if a PCT event was held the end of
>>> June in NorCal, and hosted by Seiad Valley,
>>> -  people could start any time they wished (not corresponding with a
>>> kick-off party down south),
>>> -  the resources of an entire town and community along the trail could be
>>> involved, and
>>> -  the timing would encourage NoBo thrus to get there by that date,
>>> causing them
>>>       -  to get through the Sierra before the fatal creeks start roaring
>>> (usually for 3-4 weeks of intense thaw starting late May)
>>>       -  allowing them easier, safer passage on still frozen (not
>>> thawing) snow
>>>       -  they avoid the really bad, high-flowing creeks in northern
>>> Yosemite, too, and
>>>       -  they'll have enough time after to get to Canada before the
>>> first snowstorms stop them in their tracks.
>>>       -  Plus, the SoBo hikers can attend and still start their journeys
>>> a few weeks later (roughly)!
>>> 
>>> Didn't someone involved with the town of Seiad Valley speak up sometime in
>>> the last two years about hosting such an event??
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>>> Mountain Education, Inc.
>>> ned at mountaineducation.org
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 11:26 AM
>>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net; susanvirnig at gmail.com; Amanda Silvestri <
>>> aslive at charter.net>
>>> Subject: [pct-l] Lake Morena Kick Off: AHA! / Occam's Razor-KIS / ADZPCTKO
>>> 
>>> -Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)
>>> 
>>> I believe that you have had an AHA moment, where the light bulb goes off
>>> in one's head signifying that a solution to a problem has surfaced, or
>>> wherein an idea has materialized at once. It's so simple:
>>> the ADZPCTKO (if ever held again) would better serve the "trail" by being
>>> held the last FULL weekend of March. OR, in lieu of a reconstituted
>>> ADZPCTKO, an impromptu/informal gathering might be held on this same
>>> weekend.
>>> 
>>> Hypothesis # One- not as many people would attend due to school or work
>>> obligations, and Hypothesis # Two- less people would be inclined to start
>>> en mass due to weather concerns.
>>> 
>>> Most if not all of the problems associated with the ADZPCTKO, would
>>> diminish if not go away in entirety. IF NOT, set the date for the last FULL
>>> weekend in February, and let the results speak for themselves.
>>> 
>>> Also, more hikers would naturally select earlier dates for permits,
>>> encouraging the beneficial techniques of spreading out the herds and
>>> assisting hikers in flipping and flopping up (NOBO) and down (SOBO) the
>>> trail. Thinking of two geo windows: the first 700 miles, and key sections
>>> between Sonora Pass and the Oregon border, IF- timed right.
>>> 
>>> What can it hurt to try an earlier date, even if it's not held under an
>>> umbrella organization?
>>> 
>>> The trail is coming into it's maturity due to a number of factors, and the
>>> population of hikers is only going to increase. It's best to meet this
>>> issue head on and deal with it using best practices.
>>> 
>>> Disclosure: I am an ardent supporter and a two time attendee
>>> (2012,2015) of the ADZPCTKO. For me, and my perspective, the ADZPCTKO, did
>>> more good than harm. Perhaps it was a classic case of being a victim of
>>> it's own success.
>>> 
>>> The question to ask is: How can the trail and the coming hordes be best
>>> served / dealt with, and would an attraction like the ADZPCTKO, held
>>> earlier in the season, become part of the solution instead of contributing
>>> to the problem? I believe that there is an ideal weekend to hold such an
>>> affair, and it just might be in late February or sometime in March. This
>>> evolves almost entirely on a paradigm shift in the traditional hiking
>>> protocol of a continuous hike, step by step north, and instead shifts
>>> almost entirely (for early starters) into one of a flip flop strategy.
>>> 
>>> What say yee faithful list-serve readers?
>>> 
>>> FWIW- My PCTA permitted departure dates from the southern border have been
>>> as follows:
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2012 04-26
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2013 05-20
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2014 03-23
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2015 03-03
>>> 
>>> SOBO 2015 07-10
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2016 02-14 (worked the season at VVR)
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2017 00-00 (worked the season at VVR)
>>> 
>>> NOBO 2018 02-15 PCTA permitted / issue-delayed / departure pending (I plan
>>> to jump on the trail and hike NOBO in the next few days around mile #210.)
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Paint
>>> 
>>>>>> From a section hiker:
>>> 
>>> On April 4 I started at Campo and hiked 152 miles to Highway 74 ? great
>>> burgers at the Paradise Valley Cafe! ? but the heat from the border to Lake
>>> Morena was awful. Nearly all of us took 2 days to get to the lake.  Each
>>> time the folks I was hiking with descended to the desert floor, the heat
>>> and the liters of water we had to carry made life very difficult.  (Most
>>> water sources were already dry or broken or unsupplied.)  Many of us
>>> commented that we couldn?t understand why the ADZPCTKO used to be held in
>>> late April, inviting many hikers to start then.  If it was bad for us, we
>>> couldn?t imagine starting a month later.  (And I know that some folks
>>> circled back for the event, but truly ? it encouraged many to start then.)
>>> 
>>> The opinion of the 15-20 folks I was consistently hiking and/or camping
>>> with was that if it were ever held again, do it a month earlier.
>>> 
>>> ?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)  (1650 done & 1000 to go) <<<
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 16:58:45 -0700
>> From: fhjjillw at gmail.com
>> To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
>> Message-ID: <36EAC5F9-0388-44BA-8E23-18B0D4E95354 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> 
>> If one of the main purposes of the April kick-off was information gathering, pack shake downs, gear evaluation etc. why not use the Ruck format to accomplish that purpose?   That way people can acquire their gear ahead of time. The Rucks happen in the winter months and are spread out geographically enabling more people to attend. The ?party? could be the ALDHA gathering in the fall.
>> 
>> Jill, Breakaway 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:19:47 -0700
>> From: Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com>
>> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l]  Lake Marina kick off
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CAD3yqM3WjisDjgYhZpeJcyT_5CxOjDDQDsngbqK3bo9mFyg9bQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>>> From the beginning I have missed 4 or 5 of the KOP's, and most of those
>> were toward the end.  When we hiked the PCT in 2015 we skipped the KOP,
>> just to avoid all the people and have a few days of trail to ourselves.
>> I'm not sad that the KOP's have ended, but I really did like seeing all of
>> the ultra-light gear from companies that you do not find in a REI like
>> store; Gossamer Gear, Z-Packs, Six Moons, and such like.
>> 
>> If I remember correctly, The KOP starting date was picked to line
>> thru-hikers up to hike into the Sierras during an average rainfall year.
>> Look at last year, snow fall was about double an average year.  To hit the
>> Sierras at the right time you needed to start late.  If you start later it
>> will be hot in So Ca.  That is all there is to it.  The faster you are the
>> later you need to start.  I started the PCT on 4/12/96 and 4/19/15.  Not a
>> bad time.  It did get a little hot but not to bad, maybe the 90's.  Note: I
>> live in San Diego County, day hikes in the 90's is not abnormal.  In fact,
>> it is fun to hike by people hiding in the shade and it is only in the low
>> 80's.
>> 
>> Side note:  Why do I put a 'P' at the end of KOP and not just KO.  Well in
>> the very beginning the acronym was ADZPCTKOP not ADZPCTKO.  It was Annual
>> Day Zero Pacific Crest Trail Kick Off Party.  At some point they dropped
>> the Party.  I never did.
>> 
>> Papa Raven
>> The Ravens
>> PCT '96, '15
>> CDT '17
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 07:28:56 -0500
>> From: Sabrina Harrison <troopharrison at gmail.com>
>> To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] Gear question
>> Message-ID: <12DC7147-4FAA-4DFF-9664-BE6CF280DAEA at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Help me think this through - I have a z packs rain skirt and have considered unzipping it and using it as a small tarp under my tent. It?s roughly the size of my trunk area, would go to my knees. 
>> 
>> Any reason this would be a bad idea? 
>> 
>> Obviously this is less about weight and more about having an efficient kit where everything has earned its right to be in my pack :D 
>> 
>> GoGo
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> 
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 110, Issue 17
>> **************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From iceaxehikes at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 12:37:31 2018
From: iceaxehikes at gmail.com (Matthew Edwards)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 17:37:31 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Kick Off
Message-ID: <CACOP0JzPmq2vGUy7YmH0ChKa447-+Gu5sP9Tv=KHaCcz+9OxFw@mail.gmail.com>

I remember back in 2009.
We had formed a little tribe those first 5 days up to Warner Springs.
A great gut named Shrek left us his Toyota landcruiser at Warner Springs so
we could drive back to the Kick Off.
Who does that?!

Anyhow, walking around at Kick Off with Bob Dole we happen to pass Tea Tree.
I practically yelled at her in my excitement; "Oh my god.. it's Tea Tree!".
Think i spooked her a little.
Bob Dole said "Dude!"

Then we came to Yogi's table.
I was too shy to approach.
Bob Dole pushed me and introduced us.

Reading her guide books you can't help but get caught up in their trail
personas and the stories they told.
I know Yogi is a touchy subject among some here.
Let's just leave it.
Back in 2009, Yogi's book was a powerful inspiration to me and greatly
enhanced my trail experience.
I remember Mori aka Nobody, asked Yogi to sign the town guide he bought
from her.
Her reply was classic; "You're just going to cut it up?!"

Strider came and sat with us on the grass.
My little tribe of strangers that in 5 days had become siblings.
We said; "We are so lucky to be here, hiking this trail.. to have this
trail to hike."
He replied; "I am very glad to hear you say that."
Such an open and friendly man he was.
You could see the tears well up in his eyes.
Dicentra's food seminar.
Volunteering in the kitchen.
The group photo on the rock down by the lake.
Dude walking around in the first Jacks R Better wearable quilt i had ever
seen.
Coyote running at dawn through camp in the frosty grass.

That was just my first KO.
The second was even more exciting because I left to go hike the CDT
directly after.

Such a wonderful event.
-iceaxe

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 12:49:36 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 12:49:36 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Kick Off
In-Reply-To: <CACOP0JzPmq2vGUy7YmH0ChKa447-+Gu5sP9Tv=KHaCcz+9OxFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0JzPmq2vGUy7YmH0ChKa447-+Gu5sP9Tv=KHaCcz+9OxFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62A962F8-DAB5-453F-B667-46BBA1984E84@gmail.com>

This is awesome. I have to admit I?m very jealous. It sounds like that was an incredible experience of brotherhood. Those memories are treasures. 
GoGo

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 23, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I remember back in 2009.
> We had formed a little tribe those first 5 days up to Warner Springs.
> A great gut named Shrek left us his Toyota landcruiser at Warner Springs so
> we could drive back to the Kick Off.
> Who does that?!
> 
> Anyhow, walking around at Kick Off with Bob Dole we happen to pass Tea Tree.
> I practically yelled at her in my excitement; "Oh my god.. it's Tea Tree!".
> Think i spooked her a little.
> Bob Dole said "Dude!"
> 
> Then we came to Yogi's table.
> I was too shy to approach.
> Bob Dole pushed me and introduced us.
> 
> Reading her guide books you can't help but get caught up in their trail
> personas and the stories they told.
> I know Yogi is a touchy subject among some here.
> Let's just leave it.
> Back in 2009, Yogi's book was a powerful inspiration to me and greatly
> enhanced my trail experience.
> I remember Mori aka Nobody, asked Yogi to sign the town guide he bought
> from her.
> Her reply was classic; "You're just going to cut it up?!"
> 
> Strider came and sat with us on the grass.
> My little tribe of strangers that in 5 days had become siblings.
> We said; "We are so lucky to be here, hiking this trail.. to have this
> trail to hike."
> He replied; "I am very glad to hear you say that."
> Such an open and friendly man he was.
> You could see the tears well up in his eyes.
> Dicentra's food seminar.
> Volunteering in the kitchen.
> The group photo on the rock down by the lake.
> Dude walking around in the first Jacks R Better wearable quilt i had ever
> seen.
> Coyote running at dawn through camp in the frosty grass.
> 
> That was just my first KO.
> The second was even more exciting because I left to go hike the CDT
> directly after.
> 
> Such a wonderful event.
> -iceaxe
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon Apr 23 13:09:51 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 11:09:51 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] San Diego's Driest year might be this year
Message-ID: <CALV1NznOYjp0bJx=hrrm9NVGs7Ew0edUQsXPZmQ7voEOCsvqig@mail.gmail.com>

For those wondering about lack of water, and general conditions in Section
A, this explains a bit

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/weather/sd-me-dry-year-20180410-story.html

From gary at hbfun.org  Mon Apr 23 14:51:18 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 12:51:18 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kick Off
In-Reply-To: <CACOP0JzPmq2vGUy7YmH0ChKa447-+Gu5sP9Tv=KHaCcz+9OxFw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0JzPmq2vGUy7YmH0ChKa447-+Gu5sP9Tv=KHaCcz+9OxFw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f89c588cc04f49c30d936386361e6034.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

On Mon, April 23, 2018 10:37 am, Matthew Edwards wrote:
> I remember back in 2009.

I was there in 2009. I had a week's vacation, so Snake Lady and I were
going to hike Section A. We were placed in the Section Hiker Quarantine
Zone where we camped with I-Beam and Lightened Up. We also ran into a
climbing friend of ours: Topo Man.

We bummed a ride to the border and slack packed back to Lake Morena. Then
on Sunday we hiked out with the Herd, we were right behind the Why Girls
and being filmed by National Geographic. (We only made it to the cutting
room floor)

It was a nice week, good weather for that section. We hiked by ourselves
but at breaks we'd see the Why Girls, Saint Rick and the Family Unit. We
saw Lightened Up at Mt. Laguna where he was desperately, and quite
successfully, lightening up!

We got off at Warner Springs, but continually during the summer we ran
into folks we'd met in Section A. Driving through Lone Pine we saw
Skywalker. On July 4th, on the way in to climb Mt. Lyle and Mt. McClure,
we ran into Why Not and Why Wait. They told us the Family Unit
(Bristlecone and Uber Bitch) was right behind. We also ran into one of the
Boys From Maine that day, the only still on the trail. Right after him Mr.
Grumpy came own the trail It was fun hearing their stories, they were all
so happy.

Since we've hooked up with Lightened Up on several occasions both on the
PCT and on the AT. We were honored to hike with him to Manning Park from
Stehekin. He was kind enough to slow down so we could keep up.

The kick off only had a short window of opportunity, and we're glad we got
to see it.

Gary

From carlito at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 18:51:45 2018
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 19:51:45 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Fw: Re: Gathering thoughts
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR14MB12634E64EBDA7D8FDF21358FFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR14MB126394ACE6787E7304E0B28BFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
 <ed9ec4bd3251e642dc166fabddb609dc@mx.google.com>
 <MWHPR14MB12634E64EBDA7D8FDF21358FFF8B0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7V=QF2BWnf=8g3cwmL1ibU+esFOdHtGmAYnp3UQkTDAP3Q@mail.gmail.com>

That Eunice is a real floozy. She sent the same note to me.

On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 6:42 PM, Randy Forsland <randy_forsland at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Brick...you weren't kidding about the porn bots....got this email within 5
> minutes of posting...the name though was amusing....Eunice ?? Really ??
> Couldn't come up with a better name that didn't sound like a great-aunt or
> a staff sergeant
>
>
> Redwood
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Marilyn Dean <lillynrose101 at blackkick.pw>
> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 3:32 PM
> To: randy_forsland at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts
>
>
> Randy,  I'm not for anything too crazy I am Eunice Meyer and age is not
> too big of a deal {as long as you are handsome and respectful as long as
> you are a good guy . I just want to have a time if you know what I mean ;)
>
>  also, whats your location? whats the plan for first meet?|
>
>

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 20:19:56 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 18:19:56 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Lake Marina kick off
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM3r_B2z_DYpoL+JWkd3Jx6JkfkvZ8NTzVjDv=a8QHqdkQ@mail.gmail.com>

It is true that the 'P' never stuck, but it was talked about and used at
one time.  The great thing about the Internet is that it remembers
everything.  There is a post to this list by none other then Strider...


   - *Subject*: Re: [pct-l] questions about adzpctko party
   - *From*: Greg Hummel <ghummel at hydrogenburner.com>
   - *Date*: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 08:58:40 -0800
   - *Cc*: pct-l at backcountry.net

------------------------------

Tom/Charlie/PCTL,

I am planning to go down to Lake Moreno on Friday evening, April 16.
Anyone flying into LAX that day, I can arrange to pick up on my way home
from work and take down to Campo that night.

Tom, I think that I will be full, between my kids, camping stuff, one or
two PCT'ers, packs and the water for stashing.  If you can bring any other
provisions required then I can bring all of the water.  I will be in
Mammoth this weekend, so let's coordinate with Charlie next week and
arrange food, supplies, equipment, etc. for the ADZPCTKOP.

I will be snowshoeing in the Red's Meadow area this weekend and give an
early (and therefor highly useless) report when I return.

Greg "Strider" Hummel
* From the Pacific Crest Trail Email List |  http://www.backcountry.net   *

From timpnye at gmail.com  Tue Apr 24 22:27:58 2018
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 20:27:58 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kick Off
In-Reply-To: <f89c588cc04f49c30d936386361e6034.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>
Message-ID: <5adff5f0.d01d620a.67913.de58@mx.google.com>

I'd? never heard of Kick Off before hiking into Lake Morena after everyone had disappeared earlier that Sunday in 2009.? Stormy, the campground host emerged from his RV, asked me if I wanted a beet, and pointed me over to the PCT reserved spot.
It's nice to hear those names. Uber from the family Unit wasn't thrilled with Skywalker's description of her in his book. The National Geographic 'Extreme' film was greeted with much hilarity at it's debut at KO the next year. By that time I made my way there for the sleet fest of 2010.
-------- Original message --------From: Gary Schenk <gary at hbfun.org> Date: 4/23/18  12:51 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Kick Off 
On Mon, April 23, 2018 10:37 am, Matthew Edwards wrote:
> I remember back in 2009.

I was there in 2009. I had a week's vacation, so Snake Lady and I were
going to hike Section A. We were placed in the Section Hiker Quarantine
Zone where we camped with I-Beam and Lightened Up. We also ran into a
climbing friend of ours: Topo Man.

We bummed a ride to the border and slack packed back to Lake Morena. Then
on Sunday we hiked out with the Herd, we were right behind the Why Girls
and being filmed by National Geographic. (We only made it to the cutting
room floor)

It was a nice week, good weather for that section. We hiked by ourselves
but at breaks we'd see the Why Girls, Saint Rick and the Family Unit. We
saw Lightened Up at Mt. Laguna where he was desperately, and quite
successfully, lightening up!

We got off at Warner Springs, but continually during the summer we ran
into folks we'd met in Section A. Driving through Lone Pine we saw
Skywalker. On July 4th, on the way in to climb Mt. Lyle and Mt. McClure,
we ran into Why Not and Why Wait. They told us the Family Unit
(Bristlecone and Uber Bitch) was right behind. We also ran into one of the
Boys From Maine that day, the only still on the trail. Right after him Mr.
Grumpy came own the trail It was fun hearing their stories, they were all
so happy.

Since we've hooked up with Lightened Up on several occasions both on the
PCT and on the AT. We were honored to hike with him to Manning Park from
Stehekin. He was kind enough to slow down so we could keep up.

The kick off only had a short window of opportunity, and we're glad we got
to see it.

Gary
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Wed Apr 25 10:30:04 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 15:30:04 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] One more time- PCT 2017 Class Video [ 3rd request ]
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=g_M9Xgh4J1uxq3Gda-cOZ3JnPFUDRhX4mPqxbSU563_g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=g_M9Xgh4J1uxq3Gda-cOZ3JnPFUDRhX4mPqxbSU563_g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8b0275f284c04a799feeb7c0dc94b975@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I sent an email to the address identified on the website used to collect submissions. Here is the response I just received:

"Hi Herb,

The class video is nearly done! It will be airing at Adventure 16's event in San Diego on May 4th (https://www.adventure16.com/blog/event-pct-rendezvous-free2) and I will be uploading the link online shortly after - I've been posting about it in the Facebook PCT Class of 2017 page mostly - I'm not sure what the PCT-L is, but if you're willing to convey that info I'd really appreciate it!

Best,
Juliana"

So, it sounds like we it will be online in the next couple weeks.

Herb


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2018 3:27 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] One more time- PCT 2017 Class Video [ 3rd request ]

Does anyone know anything at all about the PCT 2017 Class Video?

Thanks,

Paint
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From airecrew09 at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 10:32:35 2018
From: airecrew09 at gmail.com (Pat Wormington)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 08:32:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kickoff 2009
Message-ID: <207B0BC3-F9F6-4315-A285-0965E862C63D@gmail.com>

SO GOOD TO HEAR VOICES FROM THE 2009 KICKOFF!!  I remember Sunday morning had a half inch of frost on the tables and 2 coffee pots had broken down.  By the time I hiked from Anza to the KO, flipped to Agua Dulce hiked to Anza, did another Southbound from Manning Park to Stehekin, WA, I knew everyone that was finishing in September.  I?m still a trail maintainer from 2005 & June 2006 when there was so much snow the best way to get trail reports was to join a crew, Sonora Pass where we shoveled the trailhead entrance the first day and had to climb the N. mountaineers route up to the trail.  Camping in Desolation Wilderness in September we met a S bound gal from Michigan who had hiked 200 miles in the snow by herself and had never used an ice axe before.  You can die out there!   Please hikers, do not risk your life to hike the PCT!  Good Luck to You All, take time to enjoy the scenery.  

Jollylopper 2009  





From gary at hbfun.org  Wed Apr 25 12:09:45 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:09:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Kickoff 2009
In-Reply-To: <207B0BC3-F9F6-4315-A285-0965E862C63D@gmail.com>
References: <207B0BC3-F9F6-4315-A285-0965E862C63D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fe5c5c1fa86a0cafba24f7a8e6831fe7.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

On Wed, April 25, 2018 8:32 am, Pat Wormington wrote:
> SO GOOD TO HEAR VOICES FROM THE 2009 KICKOFF!!  I remember Sunday morning
> had a half inch of frost on the tables and 2 coffee pots had broken down.

That was really good coffee that morning.

Gary

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 12:23:47 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:23:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Gathering thoughts [ continuation ]
Message-ID: <CALu=H=i+i4SbvyOvDPG7VLj=QAT3mNeGx81wUV=0nBB1U2sYfA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm thinking that a blending of some of the best characteristics of past
ADZPCTKO's, with the RUCK model, would just about do the trick for an event
at the southern border.

So - it - could - be - a - RUCKOFF! Lol.


Yes, your mileage MIGHT vary.

Paint

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Fri Apr 27 07:28:05 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 12:28:05 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Ebbetts Pass and Highway 4
Message-ID: <EFDA5388-F935-41B1-AEC1-F20D15607021@sjmslaw.com>

Interesting photo of the walls of snow a Ebbetts: http://thepinetree.net/new/?p=58035

Herb

Sent from my iPad

From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Fri Apr 27 23:57:05 2018
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:57:05 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] =?utf-8?q?What=E2=80=99s_your_favorite_hiking_music=3F_I?=
 =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99m_creating_a_list_to_bring_on_my_PCT_walk_this_summer?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2E?=
Message-ID: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>

Thanks, Reno Hawk
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From katyshaw at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 10:30:21 2018
From: katyshaw at gmail.com (Katy Shaw)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:30:21 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] 
 =?utf-8?q?What=E2=80=99s_your_favorite_hiking_music=3F_I?=
 =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99m_creating_a_list_to_bring_on_my_PCT_walk_this_summer?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>
References: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E00C2AC7-9A07-4FE6-B88F-E09A6EBF4DAB@gmail.com>

Hi Reno Hawk,

A few months into my PCT hike last year, a friend talked me into subscribing to Spotify.  The advantage of Spotify is you can make or choose playlists and download them so you can listen offline while you hike.  You can also ask friends and family to make playlists for you, which is a fun way to connect with loved ones back home while you hike.  It?s also easy to switch your music up as you hike and you get bored of the same old music.  I found some good PCT playlists on Spotify, my favorite one being ?PCT? by Noel Nelson as it includes lots of great songs about walking and missing home.

My music tastes changed over the course of my hike, but some of my favorites included:  the Hamilton soundtrack, Tom Jones, Lord Huron, All Out 70s playlist on Spotify, the Beatles, Herb Alpert & the Tijuana Brass, the Jayhawks, Led Zeppelin, Meghan Trainor, Credence Clearwater Revival, and the ?Have a Great Day? Spotify playlist. Another fun one is the ?500 miles? song by the Proclaimers for when you hit the 500 mile marker.

I?d also highly recommend podcasts and audiobooks.  I placed holds on tons of audiobooks at my local library and then as they became available I?d check them out and download them to my iPhone.  I?d get recommendations for books on Good Reads and on Oprah?s book list, as well as from my library.  

There are so many great podcasts which you can download and listen offline while you hike. Some of my favorites are: My Brother My Brother and Me, This American Life, Serial, S-Town and - my favorite podcast of all time - The Adventure Zone. The Adventure Zone is a super nerdy but hilarious and surprisingly touching podcast about 3 brothers and their dad playing Dungeons and Dragons. I recommend starting at episode 1.5 and then listening in chronological order as the story progresses over time. It took me a while to warm up to it, but once I did I became obsessed to the point that I now am going to fly to another city to attend their live show where they play D&D onstage in front of a live audience.  And I?ve never played D&D before.

Another fun podcast is My Dad Wrote a Porno, which is super raunchy but also the only podcast that caused me to laugh out loud while I hiked to the point that I had tears streaming down my face.  The premise is that this guy?s dad wrote the worst erotic novel of all time and three friends take turns reading it out loud and making fun of it.  I could only handle a few episodes before it was too much for me but that was one of my funnest days on trail.

Happy Trails!
-Unicorn, Class of 2017

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 27, 2018, at 9:57 PM, Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Reno Hawk
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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From lucecruz13 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 11:58:12 2018
From: lucecruz13 at gmail.com (Luce Cruz)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 09:58:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] 
	=?utf-8?q?What=E2=80=99s_your_favorite_hiking_music=3F_I?=
	=?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99m_creating_a_list_to_bring_on_my_PCT_walk_this_?=
	=?utf-8?q?summer=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <E00C2AC7-9A07-4FE6-B88F-E09A6EBF4DAB@gmail.com>
References: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>
 <E00C2AC7-9A07-4FE6-B88F-E09A6EBF4DAB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPdO7FzEPUEh2OyHV8hi-RxUkc4gvvSiQbC0V0ytTV=9crcZnQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Katy Shaw <katyshaw at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Reno Hawk,
>
> A few months into my PCT hike last year, a friend talked me into
> subscribing to Spotify.
>
(snip)

> I?d also highly recommend podcasts and audiobooks.


Many podcasts on Spotify. I like Podcast Addict for a podcast manager on my
phone. Audible has a free thirty day trial, and the subscription allows you
to download the books to your device and you keep them forever if the file
remains intact. The podcasts and audio books give me other voices to listen
to inside my head that aren't telling me I can do it, I'll fail, or I'll
die if I try. Pretty much mandatory for me. They've been a huge help to
keep going.

-- 
Luce Cruz

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 12:16:26 2018
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:16:26 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] 
 =?utf-8?q?What=E2=80=99s_your_favorite_hiking_music=3F_I?=
 =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99m_creating_a_list_to_bring_on_my_PCT_walk_this_summer?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <CAPdO7FzEPUEh2OyHV8hi-RxUkc4gvvSiQbC0V0ytTV=9crcZnQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>
 <E00C2AC7-9A07-4FE6-B88F-E09A6EBF4DAB@gmail.com>
 <CAPdO7FzEPUEh2OyHV8hi-RxUkc4gvvSiQbC0V0ytTV=9crcZnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5d25c222-3322-1edf-35b0-dc12ffcb1f04@gmail.com>

I discovered Old Time Radio, and got addicted.

https://archive.org/details/oldtimeradio

The best shows in my opinion are Gunsmoke and Yours Truly Johnny 
Dollar.? You can download whole years of shows.? Anything before 1950 
seems really dated and I find shows from that period hard to listen to.? 
Jimmy Stewart in the Six-shooter is pretty good too.

I carry a couple hundred shows on the phone and while I don't listen 
while walking, I do as I lie down and relax into sleep.

Jeff

On 4/28/2018 10:58 AM, Luce Cruz wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Katy Shaw <katyshaw at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Reno Hawk,
>>
>> A few months into my PCT hike last year, a friend talked me into
>> subscribing to Spotify.
>>
> (snip)
>
>> I?d also highly recommend podcasts and audiobooks.
>
> Many podcasts on Spotify. I like Podcast Addict for a podcast manager on my
> phone. Audible has a free thirty day trial, and the subscription allows you
> to download the books to your device and you keep them forever if the file
> remains intact. The podcasts and audio books give me other voices to listen
> to inside my head that aren't telling me I can do it, I'll fail, or I'll
> die if I try. Pretty much mandatory for me. They've been a huge help to
> keep going.
>


From iceaxehikes at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 12:16:20 2018
From: iceaxehikes at gmail.com (Matthew Edwards)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 17:16:20 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct music
Message-ID: <CACOP0Jztit20xNvS65vromWBEMR-Q3FcA1+opC3hz3M4H7Ogpw@mail.gmail.com>

Somewhere in your downloads;
The Climb by Miley Cyrus.
The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
500 miles by the Proclaimers.
Just Sayin..

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 13:03:29 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:03:29 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pct music
In-Reply-To: <CACOP0Jztit20xNvS65vromWBEMR-Q3FcA1+opC3hz3M4H7Ogpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0Jztit20xNvS65vromWBEMR-Q3FcA1+opC3hz3M4H7Ogpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=i0k+FrwxvvOFZ5hCCBGT-dXf=gFEq3kvhOTqsihx50Kg@mail.gmail.com>

OK- this is going to turn into one of those mega threads. Like!

Shaggy- Hope

(especially on the big climbs and road walks, definitely road walks, and do
yourself a favor, put it on loop) Lol

Do I have to say it-

Theme song: Paint Your Wagon, and Wandering Star, and one more... Mariah.

The entire soundtrack of the PCT Class of 2016 video. I used the app.
Shazam to ID and capture the catalog of songs.

Getting on the trail shortly. (waiting on my license plate tag- damn, just
damn)

Best to ya'

Paint

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Somewhere in your downloads;
> The Climb by Miley Cyrus.
> The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
> 500 miles by the Proclaimers.
> Just Sayin..
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From baidarker at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 15:54:32 2018
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 13:54:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pct music
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=i0k+FrwxvvOFZ5hCCBGT-dXf=gFEq3kvhOTqsihx50Kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0Jztit20xNvS65vromWBEMR-Q3FcA1+opC3hz3M4H7Ogpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=i0k+FrwxvvOFZ5hCCBGT-dXf=gFEq3kvhOTqsihx50Kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11VZJLkd_Z7ESbHVFSEOYRVMmzrcSXtYRLcTYCUD9gqmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Well, Paint, I usually end up singing to myself as I hike along any trail,
and love all three of those tunes from your namesake.  I sing Broadway
particularly loudly when in grizzly country.  'Course I might be scaring
off more than bears!

Shroomer

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> OK- this is going to turn into one of those mega threads. Like!
>
> Shaggy- Hope
>
> (especially on the big climbs and road walks, definitely road walks, and do
> yourself a favor, put it on loop) Lol
>
> Do I have to say it-
>
> Theme song: Paint Your Wagon, and Wandering Star, and one more... Mariah.
>
> The entire soundtrack of the PCT Class of 2016 video. I used the app.
> Shazam to ID and capture the catalog of songs.
>
> Getting on the trail shortly. (waiting on my license plate tag- damn, just
> damn)
>
> Best to ya'
>
> Paint
>
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Somewhere in your downloads;
> > The Climb by Miley Cyrus.
> > The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
> > 500 miles by the Proclaimers.
> > Just Sayin..
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Sun Apr 29 07:44:10 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 08:44:10 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] 
 =?utf-8?q?What=E2=80=99s_your_favorite_hiking_music=3F_I?=
 =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99m_creating_a_list_to_bring_on_my_PCT_walk_this_summer?=
 =?utf-8?q?=2E?=
In-Reply-To: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>
References: <C489A0DF-C9EC-4E5B-8A0B-248BEE3B62AD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <163116e969b-c8b-31ac9@webjas-vaa135.srv.aolmail.net>

I listen to Oldies & Country 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Friday, April 27, 2018 Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks, Reno Hawk
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From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Sun Apr 29 08:39:01 2018
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 09:39:01 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Pct music
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=i0k+FrwxvvOFZ5hCCBGT-dXf=gFEq3kvhOTqsihx50Kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=i0k+FrwxvvOFZ5hCCBGT-dXf=gFEq3kvhOTqsihx50Kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16311a0ca6b-c8f-a16@webjas-vad227.srv.aolmail.net>

I have my music on my MP3 & sound track to "PAINT YOUR WAGON" is on it love that movie

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Saturday, April 28, 2018 Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:
OK- this is going to turn into one of those mega threads. Like!

Shaggy- Hope

(especially on the big climbs and road walks, definitely road walks, and do
yourself a favor, put it on loop) Lol

Do I have to say it-

Theme song: Paint Your Wagon, and Wandering Star, and one more... Mariah.

The entire soundtrack of the PCT Class of 2016 video. I used the app.
Shazam to ID and capture the catalog of songs.

Getting on the trail shortly. (waiting on my license plate tag- damn, just
damn)

Best to ya'

Paint

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Somewhere in your downloads;
> The Climb by Miley Cyrus.
> The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
> 500 miles by the Proclaimers.
> Just Sayin..
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
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From caitlinkuehl at gmail.com  Sun Apr 29 17:25:43 2018
From: caitlinkuehl at gmail.com (Caitlin Kuehl)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 15:25:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Planning Advice: mid-August & September
Message-ID: <CAPAAs73T0WOJxaftu3YYw+OSYt7giYW1ppTwwZkqm8r3NuZttw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi hikers!

I'm planning a 5-week backpacking trip on the PCT from mid-August through
late September. Any recommendations on which section I should hike?

My situation: I prefer Oregon or Washington, since I live in Oregon. I'm on
a super-tight budget, so I prefer a section of the trail that typically has
food caches or easy access to a big grocery store during week 3. I can
currently hike about 15 miles per day before my joints hurt.

You recommendations are much appreciated!

-C

From fhjjillw at gmail.com  Sat Apr 28 19:18:35 2018
From: fhjjillw at gmail.com (Jennifer Wilson)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2018 17:18:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pct music
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj11VZJLkd_Z7ESbHVFSEOYRVMmzrcSXtYRLcTYCUD9gqmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACOP0Jztit20xNvS65vromWBEMR-Q3FcA1+opC3hz3M4H7Ogpw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=i0k+FrwxvvOFZ5hCCBGT-dXf=gFEq3kvhOTqsihx50Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGxcj11VZJLkd_Z7ESbHVFSEOYRVMmzrcSXtYRLcTYCUD9gqmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0D39D0EA-E041-4D4C-A0F6-80D135144E0A@gmail.com>

Fun topic!!  Here are 6 of my favorites:
     Break My Stride (Ain?t nothin going to slow me down)
     Cajun Moon (Ricky Skaggs)
     Sierra (Boz Scaggs)
     Fast As You (Dwight Yoakum)
     I?ll Fly Away
     What a Wonderful World (Louis Armstrong)
Except for the long hauls I prefer to listen in camp too.

Jill, Breakaway

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 28, 2018, at 1:54 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, Paint, I usually end up singing to myself as I hike along any trail,
> and love all three of those tunes from your namesake.  I sing Broadway
> particularly loudly when in grizzly country.  'Course I might be scaring
> off more than bears!
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> OK- this is going to turn into one of those mega threads. Like!
>> 
>> Shaggy- Hope
>> 
>> (especially on the big climbs and road walks, definitely road walks, and do
>> yourself a favor, put it on loop) Lol
>> 
>> Do I have to say it-
>> 
>> Theme song: Paint Your Wagon, and Wandering Star, and one more... Mariah.
>> 
>> The entire soundtrack of the PCT Class of 2016 video. I used the app.
>> Shazam to ID and capture the catalog of songs.
>> 
>> Getting on the trail shortly. (waiting on my license plate tag- damn, just
>> damn)
>> 
>> Best to ya'
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Somewhere in your downloads;
>>> The Climb by Miley Cyrus.
>>> The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
>>> 500 miles by the Proclaimers.
>>> Just Sayin..
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 28, 2018, at 1:54 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well, Paint, I usually end up singing to myself as I hike along any trail,
> and love all three of those tunes from your namesake.  I sing Broadway
> particularly loudly when in grizzly country.  'Course I might be scaring
> off more than bears!
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> OK- this is going to turn into one of those mega threads. Like!
>> 
>> Shaggy- Hope
>> 
>> (especially on the big climbs and road walks, definitely road walks, and do
>> yourself a favor, put it on loop) Lol
>> 
>> Do I have to say it-
>> 
>> Theme song: Paint Your Wagon, and Wandering Star, and one more... Mariah.
>> 
>> The entire soundtrack of the PCT Class of 2016 video. I used the app.
>> Shazam to ID and capture the catalog of songs.
>> 
>> Getting on the trail shortly. (waiting on my license plate tag- damn, just
>> damn)
>> 
>> Best to ya'
>> 
>> Paint
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:16 AM, Matthew Edwards <iceaxehikes at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Somewhere in your downloads;
>>> The Climb by Miley Cyrus.
>>> The Power of Myth with Joseph Campbell and Bill Moyers.
>>> 500 miles by the Proclaimers.
>>> Just Sayin..
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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From philpalacio1 at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 29 18:18:29 2018
From: philpalacio1 at yahoo.com (Phillip Palacio)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:18:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Mid May starting at mile marker 1, Campo
References: <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090@mail.yahoo.com>

For those who have done it, do you think this is too late in the season to start? I am doing it regardless May 16th, I am just curious for I know I'll be missing the hefty bulk of thru hikers.?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sun Apr 29 21:17:46 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 19:17:46 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Mid May starting at mile marker 1, Campo
In-Reply-To: <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=2NaoTxM8BvPWLGMQ8K5a60zvyQZ5inD5K4FJ6E=eJ6A@mail.gmail.com>

In a heavy snow year, I started in mid June.

Everyone's hike is unique. You will have great times, you will have
horrible times. Go with the flow and have fune.



On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Phillip Palacio <philpalacio1 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> For those who have done it, do you think this is too late in the season to
> start? I am doing it regardless May 16th, I am just curious for I know I'll
> be missing the hefty bulk of thru hikers.
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From walkinglarry at gmail.com  Sun Apr 29 21:21:27 2018
From: walkinglarry at gmail.com (Larry Hillberg)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 19:21:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] favorite hiking music
Message-ID: <CACY1So+QFdu0yuULCbsmAXmQFGouctu5EJLOKEAFVNzimiWUjw@mail.gmail.com>

I prefer the songs of wind, tumbling water, and the critters of the forest.
And maybe best of all - the sounds of silence.

Please note, I am sincere with no sarcasm intended here...

Larry

From richardb10 at live.com  Sun Apr 29 21:35:50 2018
From: richardb10 at live.com (Richard Brinkman)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 02:35:50 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] favorite hiking music
In-Reply-To: <CACY1So+QFdu0yuULCbsmAXmQFGouctu5EJLOKEAFVNzimiWUjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACY1So+QFdu0yuULCbsmAXmQFGouctu5EJLOKEAFVNzimiWUjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR16MB171449401538FF5C17ACD69DA7820@BN6PR16MB1714.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

Couldn't agree more.  Nature is the best sound, and force.

Roadwalker


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Larry
Hillberg
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:21 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] favorite hiking music

I prefer the songs of wind, tumbling water, and the critters of the forest.
And maybe best of all - the sounds of silence.

Please note, I am sincere with no sarcasm intended here...

Larry
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From turfa at yahoo.com  Sun Apr 29 21:47:05 2018
From: turfa at yahoo.com (Chris Cook)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 02:47:05 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Mid May starting at mile marker 1, Campo
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=2NaoTxM8BvPWLGMQ8K5a60zvyQZ5inD5K4FJ6E=eJ6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1288711057.2124617.1525043909090@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CALV1Nz=2NaoTxM8BvPWLGMQ8K5a60zvyQZ5inD5K4FJ6E=eJ6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1934854636.2197079.1525056425688@mail.yahoo.com>

??????????? I hope not..... I start the day before you on the 15th !?? :-)
All 50 permits are taken for the second half of May, so lots of people 'intending' to hike, but I'm actually hoping it might be a little quieter at the back of the pack.
Good luck & might see you out there !Cheers,Chris


On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Phillip Palacio <philpalacio1 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> For those who have done it, do you think this is too late in the season to
> start? I am doing it regardless May 16th, I am just curious for I know I'll
> be missing the hefty bulk of thru hikers.
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From imscotty at aol.com  Sun Apr 29 22:35:04 2018
From: imscotty at aol.com (imscotty at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 23:35:04 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Mid May starting at mile marker 1, Campo
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=2NaoTxM8BvPWLGMQ8K5a60zvyQZ5inD5K4FJ6E=eJ6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <163149e3c43-c83-112fb@webjas-vaa062.srv.aolmail.net>

Hey Philip, I will also be starting at Campo on May 16th on a LASH (Long Ass Section Hike).  I hope to see you there.  I plan on camping out at the Stone Museum the night before and walking to the monument in time for the sunrise.  If you are arriving later in the day, no worries, I am pretty sure you will catch up to me :)


I am pretty sure we will not be alone.  The PCTA has booked 50 permits per day from Campo until June 3rd!


Yah, the desert will be hotter and dryer, the water caches may be used up and the Trail Angels fewer and farther between, but we will adapt.  If you stick to your knitting and not take too many zeros my guess is you will catch up to some of the early starters by the time you get through the Sierras.


Enjoy yourself and I hope to see you there.


Scotty



-----Original Message-----
From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2018 10:17 pm
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mid May starting at mile marker 1, Campo

In a heavy snow year, I started in mid June.

Everyone's hike is unique. You will have great times, you will have
horrible times. Go with the flow and have fune.



On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Phillip Palacio <philpalacio1 at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> For those who have done it, do you think this is too late in the season to
> start? I am doing it regardless May 16th, I am just curious for I know I'll
> be missing the hefty bulk of thru hikers.
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 12:37:09 2018
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:37:09 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] favorite hiking music
In-Reply-To: <CACY1So+QFdu0yuULCbsmAXmQFGouctu5EJLOKEAFVNzimiWUjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACY1So+QFdu0yuULCbsmAXmQFGouctu5EJLOKEAFVNzimiWUjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_auL8zEgmQSGO_muYBX2QbHt-jzETZr9hMw9wWpTehyTJQ@mail.gmail.com>

I made a hiking specific playlist. On my list (yes I know many are corny)

Take a Walk - Passion Pit
On Top of the World - Imagine Dragon (listened to on Whitney)
My Body - Young the Giant
The Distance - Cake
The Wanderer - Johnny Cash
Wagon Wheel - Old Crow (on of my fav but better for AT)
When Johnny comes marching home
Walking Man - James Taylor
Go where you wanna go - Mamas and papas
What's Up? - Four Non-Blondes (used in movie Wild)

?  -Rover