[pct-l] Fires

[Drew Smith]

No question that there have been many fires in CA over the last decade. But
before sending down commandments from on high, how about a little data to
inform the conversation?

How many fires have been attributed to backpackers? To long-distance hikers?

How many have been attributed to alcohol stoves? How many to stoves with
shut-off valves?
What is the baseline prevalence of alcohol stoves vs other stoves? If
alcohol stoves are used by 30% of hikers but cause 20% of fires, then the
logical conclusion is that alcohol stoves are safer than other stoves.

I'd be surprised if anyone (including the USFS and other agencies) actually
has data to support their beliefs about the danger of alcohol stoves. If
you do have data, please share it with us, and I will be glad to be
educated. Until then, I don't feel any particular need to treat folks'
opinions as anything more than what they are - beliefs untethered to
verifiable facts.

Drew

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 6:42 PM Julie Jarvies <julieawj at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys!
> I have been reading, with interest, the debate here.  Can I encourage you
> to look at this another way?
> Just because we can, doesn’t mean we should.
>
> As PCT hikers I think we should be the best stewards of the trail and the
> surrounding beauty as we can be.
>  While we may know the private, public, reservation land, forests,
> agencies, or governing body not all hikers do.
> You must admit, it changes quickly at times.  Rues and regulations,
> permits and campsites and on and on.
>
> There are a lot of first-timers, weekend warriors, and knuckleheads on the
> trail.  They look to us, the more experienced
> seasoned hikers, for guidance, advise and sometimes survival. As an
> example, I my first stove was white gas.
> A strong gust of wind at Mt. Rainier changed that forever. I was also in a
> “summer blizzard” where a fire was essential
> for some for survival.
>
> Let’s allow our common sense and example rule the day and not what is /is
> not allowed!
>
> Thanks for listening!
> Nightingale
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > PCTA Website
> > <https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/backcountry-basics/fire/>
> >
> >
> >   - Campfires are generally not allowed on the PCT in Southern
> California.
> >   Only the rare developed car-camping campground, with official fire
> >   amenities, allow fires. The fire danger is too extreme, and population
> >   centers too at-risk, to allow fires.
> >   - Alcohol stoves and twig stoves can be dangerous since their fuel
> >   source is not contained and there is no positive shut-off. Stories
> abound
> >   of people burning picnic tables, themselves and starting forest fires
> when
> >   these stoves blew or were knocked over. It is likely that if campfires
> are
> >   prohibited, alcohol and twig stoves will be banned as well.
> >
> > The above statement is not in line with your post in which you stated
> "You
> > are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve."
> >
> > My intent is not to turn this into a "flame war". I hiked the PCT without
> > making a campfire and I don't see the need to make fires in the
> > backcountry. But I'd argue that these extreme posts, basically yelling at
> > people, are very ineffective.
> >
> >  -Rover
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:10 PM, marmot marmot <
> marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Please read the PCT website. It campfires are not allowed on the PCT in
> >> the back country. Alcohol stoves and other stoves can and have turned
> into
> >> "camp fires". Who would want to take that chance? For years and years
> there
> >> have been polite discussions of hikers behavior. And then there's
> another
> >> fire and another fire and another fire and....
> >> One of the suggestions has been lets just call out bad behavior. That is
> >> what I am doing. The trail will last,hopefully, long after this year's
> >> hikers have gone home. Let's leave it intact. HYOH does not apply to
> >> harmful behavior that hurts animals,insects,trees,
> >> plants---the trail.
> >> We are temporary visitors with a responsibly to care for the trail.
> >> Marmot
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
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