From reddirt23 at att.net  Mon May  1 16:50:05 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 14:50:05 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ?
Message-ID: <B0AAD083-1C54-48E0-86F6-86593F0C87BE@att.net>

Anyone know anything about an airlift in the southern Sierra?  Rumor mill is alive and well at kennedy and I heard a. that 3 hikers we have had in camp and or given rides had returned to Kennedy and jumped ahead to Sierra City.  I also heard b. that the 3 were involved in an avalanche, one had a broken leg, and that they were airlifted out...?  Like I say it is only rumor via a couple hikers I spoke to this weekend at Kennedy store and wondering if anyone can clarify

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon May  1 16:48:00 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 14:48:00 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ?
In-Reply-To: <B0AAD083-1C54-48E0-86F6-86593F0C87BE@att.net>
References: <B0AAD083-1C54-48E0-86F6-86593F0C87BE@att.net>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=ph_VNPgcH5z3fOprue_TAcTJegDWiJYDzKyyrr4qi5g@mail.gmail.com>

both seem to be on Whitney

http://www.sierrawave.net/two-deaths-one-mt-whitney-sequoia-kings-national-park/

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
> Anyone know anything about an airlift in the southern Sierra?  Rumor mill is alive and well at kennedy and I heard a. that 3 hikers we have had in camp and or given rides had returned to Kennedy and jumped ahead to Sierra City.  I also heard b. that the 3 were involved in an avalanche, one had a broken leg, and that they were airlifted out...?  Like I say it is only rumor via a couple hikers I spoke to this weekend at Kennedy store and wondering if anyone can clarify
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Mon May  1 18:06:25 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 16:06:25 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ?
Message-ID: <CALu=H=j0Fj1GyJ9dUQZQexeubVA0ewAfG-isXb94E=kptXNH7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Earlier today, I came across a photo of an avalanche rescue underway, with
a patient being airlifted in a basket onto a hovering helicopter. If memory
serves me correctly, the person had broken their leg- per the quote.

I can't remember whether it was posted at Trail Journals, Postholer, or
Vermilion Valley Resort's website... but I saw it with my own two eyes.

Also:

http://www.sierrawave.net/two-deaths-one-mt-whitney-sequoia-kings-national-park/

In the above link- a 63 year old male hiker was killed on the Mountaineer's
Route of Mt Whitney, on 24 April, and a 21 year old female hiker (?) fell
into the Middle Fork of the Kaweah River, on 23 April, and was swept away,
drowning.

Paint

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Mon May  1 18:35:20 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 23:35:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ?
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=j0Fj1GyJ9dUQZQexeubVA0ewAfG-isXb94E=kptXNH7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=j0Fj1GyJ9dUQZQexeubVA0ewAfG-isXb94E=kptXNH7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1985220254.19285203.1493681720225.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

That might have been Calorie being airlifted above Onion Valley. It was 14 June 2010. Here is a link to the journal description of what happened. 
http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/316925 

A pic of the evac chopper is on the 15 June entry. 

Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Paint YW" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> 
To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 7:06:25 PM 
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? 

Earlier today, I came across a photo of an avalanche rescue underway, with 
a patient being airlifted in a basket onto a hovering helicopter. If memory 
serves me correctly, the person had broken their leg- per the quote. 

I can't remember whether it was posted at Trail Journals, Postholer, or 
Vermilion Valley Resort's website... but I saw it with my own two eyes. 

Also: 

http://www.sierrawave.net/two-deaths-one-mt-whitney-sequoia-kings-national-park/ 

In the above link- a 63 year old male hiker was killed on the Mountaineer's 
Route of Mt Whitney, on 24 April, and a 21 year old female hiker (?) fell 
into the Middle Fork of the Kaweah River, on 23 April, and was swept away, 
drowning. 

Paint 
_______________________________________________ 
Pct-L mailing list 
Pct-L at backcountry.net 
To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 

List Archives: 
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Mon May  1 19:05:03 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 17:05:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? /
 CHP-Coastal-Division-Airlift-Operations
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jkt-quNaxnneiqpc_a4Tb_T-2E3BMMD8Dempjbq7V88Q@mail.gmail.com>

Posting the link to the CHP video below, to correct my previous post which
alluded to a possible PCT hiker suffering a broken leg and being airlifted
off the trail / Mt. Whitney.

I cannot confirm any injury or airlift of same. Any rumor as such may have
it's origin in the below video / recovery of an injured climber.

Hat tip to Vermilion Valley Resort for the link off of their FB page.
https://www.facebook.com/vvr.edisonlake

On Saturday the crew of H-70 performed a high-altitude rescue of a climber
injured by an avalanche along the Mountaineers Route to Mount Whitney. The
climber was safely flown to Lone Pine Airport where he was transferred to
the care of an ambulance crew. Compliments to the crew for their excellent
work in such a technically-challenging environment. The victim and his
family are grateful for your public service.

https://www.facebook.com/CHP-Coastal-Division-Air-Operations-276737786013059/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE

What is not clear from this video- is whether this climber is an entirely
different injured person, or is the deceased climber age 63 mentioned in
the previous post.

Paint

From baidarker at gmail.com  Tue May  2 09:37:34 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2017 14:37:34 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ?
In-Reply-To: <1985220254.19285203.1493681720225.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
References: <CALu=H=j0Fj1GyJ9dUQZQexeubVA0ewAfG-isXb94E=kptXNH7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <1985220254.19285203.1493681720225.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj11i243KJiMc0DNPLRvrNZAg4RpdVqF=New0qz-tmsneJQ@mail.gmail.com>

I remember that day well. And after a bit of time in the hospital, Calorie,
a sixteen year old kid who could put away the "calories" made it to Canada.
Big snow that year and wonderful folks. Got to see Ned in action that day
and I've been recommending his classes ever since.  The trail over the High
Sierra that year was some of the best and most exciting backpacking of any
of our lives. Thanks for the link Mango.

Comin at ya from the Ein Gedi wadis above the Dead Sea. Oasis beyond belief
and yes the same that David sings of in the Psalms. Unbelievably
beautiful!!!

Shroomer


On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:35 AM Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net> wrote:

> That might have been Calorie being airlifted above Onion Valley. It was 14
> June 2010. Here is a link to the journal description of what happened.
> http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/316925
>
> A pic of the evac chopper is on the 15 June entry.
>
> Mango
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "Paint YW" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> To: "Pct-L" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 1, 2017 7:06:25 PM
> Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ?
>
> Earlier today, I came across a photo of an avalanche rescue underway, with
> a patient being airlifted in a basket onto a hovering helicopter. If memory
> serves me correctly, the person had broken their leg- per the quote.
>
> I can't remember whether it was posted at Trail Journals, Postholer, or
> Vermilion Valley Resort's website... but I saw it with my own two eyes.
>
> Also:
>
>
> http://www.sierrawave.net/two-deaths-one-mt-whitney-sequoia-kings-national-park/
>
> In the above link- a 63 year old male hiker was killed on the Mountaineer's
> Route of Mt Whitney, on 24 April, and a 21 year old female hiker (?) fell
> into the Middle Fork of the Kaweah River, on 23 April, and was swept away,
> drowning.
>
> Paint
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From gar1138 at yahoo.com  Tue May  2 11:56:19 2017
From: gar1138 at yahoo.com (Garrett)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 16:56:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
References: <1900840429.658134.1493744179326.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1900840429.658134.1493744179326@mail.yahoo.com>

Hello, long time reader, first time poster. :-)? I completed the Oregon PCT in sections over the last two summers.? This summer (2017) I plan to hike from Cascade Locks to Snoqualmie Pass in roughly the first two weeks of August.? After researching a bunch, I have a few quick questions:

1.? Any thoughts on snow or mosquitos?? I'm hoping that the heavy winter snow this year won't be much of an issue then.

2.? I will be resupplying and spending a night in Trout Lake (I hear nothing but good things about Trout Lake).? How difficult is it to hitch a ride into town from the trail (and back the next day)?? Most accounts say it is fairly easy, but having never hitch-hiked before it does give me slight pause.

3.? Are there any difficult stream crossings or fords that I will need to be aware of?

Much appreciated, thanks.

Garrett

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue May  2 15:07:50 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 20:07:50 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the trail. Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif. Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of those burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they knew what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I don't care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you can burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires require a shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I doubt it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres. This is not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants you kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that you imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they could not live without a "romantic" fire. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Tue May  2 15:47:24 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 13:47:24 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>

No that is not a nice e-mail. Worse though, it is factually inaccurate.

I've heard these overarching statements by some that "alcohol stoves are
banned from the PCT!".  Anecdotally, last summer when getting a ride up to
Walker pass, I was picked up by a ranger and former forest fire fighter.
She indicated that there was not any ban on alcohol stoves.  I had heard
that Sequoia has restrictions and I did a quick Google Search.  The webpage
states that for designated campgrounds
<https://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature/fire-restrictions.htm>"propane,
alcohol (with and without a shutoff valve) and tablet/cube stoves are
permitted". And this is all the way up to level 3 (extreme).  The
additional restrictions for backpacking
<https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restrictions.htm> do
not mention a shut off valve.  If someone has some verifiable objective
evidence showing otherwise then please post it. I'm open to learning.

It is a free country and you are welcome to express your opinions. We could
lecture each other on the evils of Walmart, buying bottled water,  or other
issues but I'd suggest that lecturing people in this manner, while it may
make you feel better, is very ineffective.

   - Rover



On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:07 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the trail.
> Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif.
> Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of those
> burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they knew
> what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with
> a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I don't
> care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you can
> burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires require a
> shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I doubt
> it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres. This is
> not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants you
> kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that you
> imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they could
> not live without a "romantic" fire.
>
> Marmot
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From carlito at gmail.com  Tue May  2 16:05:26 2017
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 14:05:26 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>

The rules are different for each forest. Marmot was specifically referring
to SoCal, where alcohol stoves are not allowed.

San Bernardino NF:

   - Portable contained-gas or liquefied-petroleum stoves or lanterns with
      a fuel shut-off valve are permitted with a valid California
Campfire Permit.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/home/?cid=fsbdev7_007776

Angeles NF:

   - Gas and petroleum jelly stoves only outside of designated sites with a
      valid California Campfire Permit.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/angeles/conditions/?cid=FSBDEV3_027721


On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
wrote:

> No that is not a nice e-mail. Worse though, it is factually inaccurate.
>
> I've heard these overarching statements by some that "alcohol stoves are
> banned from the PCT!".  Anecdotally, last summer when getting a ride up to
> Walker pass, I was picked up by a ranger and former forest fire fighter.
> She indicated that there was not any ban on alcohol stoves.  I had heard
> that Sequoia has restrictions and I did a quick Google Search.  The webpage
> states that for designated campgrounds
> <https://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature/fire-restrictions.htm>"propane,
> alcohol (with and without a shutoff valve) and tablet/cube stoves are
> permitted". And this is all the way up to level 3 (extreme).  The
> additional restrictions for backpacking
> <https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restrictions.htm>
> do
> not mention a shut off valve.  If someone has some verifiable objective
> evidence showing otherwise then please post it. I'm open to learning.
>
> It is a free country and you are welcome to express your opinions. We could
> lecture each other on the evils of Walmart, buying bottled water,  or other
> issues but I'd suggest that lecturing people in this manner, while it may
> make you feel better, is very ineffective.
>
>    - Rover
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:07 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the trail.
> > Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif.
> > Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of
> those
> > burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they knew
> > what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove
> with
> > a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I don't
> > care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you can
> > burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires require
> a
> > shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I
> doubt
> > it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres. This is
> > not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants you
> > kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that you
> > imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they
> could
> > not live without a "romantic" fire.
> >
> > Marmot
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From carlito at gmail.com  Tue May  2 16:07:34 2017
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 14:07:34 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7VmFtvZ-N+_sexNNeT5Bk9Bd4Eic+MrCNz4k-4VE+GfaTA@mail.gmail.com>

I meant to add...

Her larger point was about campfires, which I think are prohibited on all
SoCal forest lands except in developed campgrounds.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:

> The rules are different for each forest. Marmot was specifically referring
> to SoCal, where alcohol stoves are not allowed.
>
> San Bernardino NF:
>
>    - Portable contained-gas or liquefied-petroleum stoves or lanterns
>       with a fuel shut-off valve are permitted with a valid California Campfire
>       Permit.
>
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/home/?cid=fsbdev7_007776
>
> Angeles NF:
>
>    - Gas and petroleum jelly stoves only outside of designated sites with
>       a valid California Campfire Permit.
>
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/angeles/conditions/?cid=FSBDEV3_027721
>
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Scott Diamond <
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No that is not a nice e-mail. Worse though, it is factually inaccurate.
>>
>> I've heard these overarching statements by some that "alcohol stoves are
>> banned from the PCT!".  Anecdotally, last summer when getting a ride up to
>> Walker pass, I was picked up by a ranger and former forest fire fighter.
>> She indicated that there was not any ban on alcohol stoves.  I had heard
>> that Sequoia has restrictions and I did a quick Google Search.  The
>> webpage
>> states that for designated campgrounds
>> <https://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature/fire-restrictions.htm>"propane,
>> alcohol (with and without a shutoff valve) and tablet/cube stoves are
>> permitted". And this is all the way up to level 3 (extreme).  The
>> additional restrictions for backpacking
>> <https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restrictions.htm>
>> do
>> not mention a shut off valve.  If someone has some verifiable objective
>> evidence showing otherwise then please post it. I'm open to learning.
>>
>> It is a free country and you are welcome to express your opinions. We
>> could
>> lecture each other on the evils of Walmart, buying bottled water,  or
>> other
>> issues but I'd suggest that lecturing people in this manner, while it may
>> make you feel better, is very ineffective.
>>
>>    - Rover
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:07 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the
>> trail.
>> > Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif.
>> > Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of
>> those
>> > burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they knew
>> > what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove
>> with
>> > a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I
>> don't
>> > care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you
>> can
>> > burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires
>> require a
>> > shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I
>> doubt
>> > it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres. This
>> is
>> > not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants
>> you
>> > kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that you
>> > imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they
>> could
>> > not live without a "romantic" fire.
>> >
>> > Marmot
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue May  2 16:10:28 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 21:10:28 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Please read the PCT website. It campfires are not allowed on the PCT in the back country. Alcohol stoves and other stoves can and have turned into "camp fires". Who would want to take that chance? For years and years there have been polite discussions of hikers behavior. And then there's another fire and another fire and another fire and....
One of the suggestions has been lets just call out bad behavior. That is what I am doing. The trail will last,hopefully, long after this year's hikers have gone home. Let's leave it intact. HYOH does not apply to harmful behavior that hurts animals,insects,trees,
plants---the trail. 
We are temporary visitors with a responsibly to care for the trail. 
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Tue May  2 16:18:48 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 14:18:48 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_at2ZByPU=sTvn8YAnN=St3B-C+ASTb9zZqx=Jv+9fbmbw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the info Carl. The San Bernadino post does state that a shut off
valve is required. (But it is a little odd since they state that wood or
charcoal fires are permitted.) As I read the Angeles NF though it seems to
imply that you need a campfire permit but there is no requirement for a
shut-off valve. I would think a alcohol stove would be legal. I tried
calling them but the indicate they are closed.

Good info.

      -Scott

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:

> The rules are different for each forest. Marmot was specifically referring
> to SoCal, where alcohol stoves are not allowed.
>
> San Bernardino NF:
>
>    - Portable contained-gas or liquefied-petroleum stoves or lanterns with
>       a fuel shut-off valve are permitted with a valid California
> Campfire Permit.
>
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/home/?cid=fsbdev7_007776
>
> Angeles NF:
>
>    - Gas and petroleum jelly stoves only outside of designated sites with a
>       valid California Campfire Permit.
>
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/angeles/conditions/?cid=FSBDEV3_027721
>
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Scott Diamond <
> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > No that is not a nice e-mail. Worse though, it is factually inaccurate.
> >
> > I've heard these overarching statements by some that "alcohol stoves are
> > banned from the PCT!".  Anecdotally, last summer when getting a ride up
> to
> > Walker pass, I was picked up by a ranger and former forest fire fighter.
> > She indicated that there was not any ban on alcohol stoves.  I had heard
> > that Sequoia has restrictions and I did a quick Google Search.  The
> webpage
> > states that for designated campgrounds
> > <https://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature/fire-restrictions.htm>"propane,
> > alcohol (with and without a shutoff valve) and tablet/cube stoves are
> > permitted". And this is all the way up to level 3 (extreme).  The
> > additional restrictions for backpacking
> > <https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restrictions.htm>
> > do
> > not mention a shut off valve.  If someone has some verifiable objective
> > evidence showing otherwise then please post it. I'm open to learning.
> >
> > It is a free country and you are welcome to express your opinions. We
> could
> > lecture each other on the evils of Walmart, buying bottled water,  or
> other
> > issues but I'd suggest that lecturing people in this manner, while it may
> > make you feel better, is very ineffective.
> >
> >    - Rover
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:07 PM, marmot marmot <
> marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the
> trail.
> > > Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif.
> > > Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of
> > those
> > > burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they knew
> > > what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove
> > with
> > > a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I
> don't
> > > care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you
> can
> > > burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires
> require
> > a
> > > shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I
> > doubt
> > > it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres. This
> is
> > > not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants
> you
> > > kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that you
> > > imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they
> > could
> > > not live without a "romantic" fire.
> > >
> > > Marmot
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Pct-L mailing list
> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> > >
> > > List Archives:
> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Tue May  2 16:31:45 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 14:31:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>

PCTA Website
<https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/backcountry-basics/fire/>


   - Campfires are generally not allowed on the PCT in Southern California.
   Only the rare developed car-camping campground, with official fire
   amenities, allow fires. The fire danger is too extreme, and population
   centers too at-risk, to allow fires.
   - Alcohol stoves and twig stoves can be dangerous since their fuel
   source is not contained and there is no positive shut-off. Stories abound
   of people burning picnic tables, themselves and starting forest fires when
   these stoves blew or were knocked over. It is likely that if campfires are
   prohibited, alcohol and twig stoves will be banned as well.

The above statement is not in line with your post in which you stated "You
are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve."

My intent is not to turn this into a "flame war". I hiked the PCT without
making a campfire and I don't see the need to make fires in the
backcountry. But I'd argue that these extreme posts, basically yelling at
people, are very ineffective.

  -Rover

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:10 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Please read the PCT website. It campfires are not allowed on the PCT in
> the back country. Alcohol stoves and other stoves can and have turned into
> "camp fires". Who would want to take that chance? For years and years there
> have been polite discussions of hikers behavior. And then there's another
> fire and another fire and another fire and....
> One of the suggestions has been lets just call out bad behavior. That is
> what I am doing. The trail will last,hopefully, long after this year's
> hikers have gone home. Let's leave it intact. HYOH does not apply to
> harmful behavior that hurts animals,insects,trees,
> plants---the trail.
> We are temporary visitors with a responsibly to care for the trail.
> Marmot
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue May  2 16:58:49 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 21:58:49 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>,
 <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB024656CC43E2A987675CC4A7C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I'm sorry that I caused you to feel bad. I'm just so tired and angry about the harm done to the trail. These people aren't talking about being so cold they were forced to make a fire. It's always about some romantic archaic idea of what entails a long distant hike. We've all talked ourselves hoarse, teaching workshops,Rucks,
Gatherings,Kickoffs. I've been involved in this for 30 years. This stuff needs to just stop. If you have a better way of saying it please do.
If they made the fire,cooked on their stoves that could not be turned off in the middle of the road with buckets of water,with a shovel---that would be another thing. It is clear where they are camping. It took numerous posts before it became clear that behavior that is so dangerous just has to be called out. I was just enjoying reading of their experiences. Then making fires was mentioned way to many times in too many posts.
There's no large Kickoff to educate new hikers and inexperienced people. We got to talk to maybe 100 hikers and it wasn't the same sort of general information event. In my opinion ""hike-your- own -hike refers to how fast you do it,what you eat, what you carry,when you get up in the morning, whether you take time off in town or just pick up your food and walk on. Benign behavior.  If people don't know the danger they cause. They need to. I care that the squirrels and bears aren't burned alive.
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com<mailto:scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>> wrote:

PCTA Website<https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/backcountry-basics/fire/>


  *   Campfires are generally not allowed on the PCT in Southern California. Only the rare developed car-camping campground, with official fire amenities, allow fires. The fire danger is too extreme, and population centers too at-risk, to allow fires.
  *   Alcohol stoves and twig stoves can be dangerous since their fuel source is not contained and there is no positive shut-off. Stories abound of people burning picnic tables, themselves and starting forest fires when these stoves blew or were knocked over. It is likely that if campfires are prohibited, alcohol and twig stoves will be banned as well.

The above statement is not in line with your post in which you stated "You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve."

My intent is not to turn this into a "flame war". I hiked the PCT without making a campfire and I don't see the need to make fires in the backcountry. But I'd argue that these extreme posts, basically yelling at people, are very ineffective.

  -Rover

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:10 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com<mailto:marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Please read the PCT website. It campfires are not allowed on the PCT in the back country. Alcohol stoves and other stoves can and have turned into "camp fires". Who would want to take that chance? For years and years there have been polite discussions of hikers behavior. And then there's another fire and another fire and another fire and....
One of the suggestions has been lets just call out bad behavior. That is what I am doing. The trail will last,hopefully, long after this year's hikers have gone home. Let's leave it intact. HYOH does not apply to harmful behavior that hurts animals,insects,trees,
plants---the trail.
We are temporary visitors with a responsibly to care for the trail.
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net<mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Tue May  2 17:29:48 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 16:29:48 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <908ef183-ffb3-89b4-a183-c4a179d661ec@gmail.com>

  In my opinion it doesn't matter whether there are rules or not.  We 
can feel a higher calling, experience being a part of the larger 
environment/world, and act ethically to honor the earth we walk on. 
Building fires outside of survival situations on a trail that sees a 
couple thousand people a year is unethical.

Jeff
laramie, wy

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From carlito at gmail.com  Tue May  2 18:00:16 2017
From: carlito at gmail.com (Carl Siechert)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 16:00:16 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_at2ZByPU=sTvn8YAnN=St3B-C+ASTb9zZqx=Jv+9fbmbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_at2ZByPU=sTvn8YAnN=St3B-C+ASTb9zZqx=Jv+9fbmbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK1x7Vkapnjbm_S+hXSf5BkSSRsj3L-NcxDG4JVfjsoXpZxTTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Alcohol stoves are prohibited by omission: In both forests, only gas and
petroleum jelly stoves are permitted outside developed campgrounds. (Wood
and charcoal are permitted only in developed recreation sites, not in the
backcountry.) Alcohol, esbit, etc. do not meet that description.

And as Jeff and Marmot point out, there are good reasons other than
regulations not to, um, play with fire.

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the info Carl. The San Bernadino post does state that a shut
> off valve is required. (But it is a little odd since they state that wood
> or charcoal fires are permitted.) As I read the Angeles NF though it seems
> to imply that you need a campfire permit but there is no requirement for a
> shut-off valve. I would think a alcohol stove would be legal. I tried
> calling them but the indicate they are closed.
>
> Good info.
>
>       -Scott
>
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Carl Siechert <carlito at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The rules are different for each forest. Marmot was specifically referring
>> to SoCal, where alcohol stoves are not allowed.
>>
>> San Bernardino NF:
>>
>>    - Portable contained-gas or liquefied-petroleum stoves or lanterns with
>>       a fuel shut-off valve are permitted with a valid California
>> Campfire Permit.
>>
>> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sbnf/home/?cid=fsbdev7_007776
>>
>> Angeles NF:
>>
>>    - Gas and petroleum jelly stoves only outside of designated sites with
>> a
>>
>>       valid California Campfire Permit.
>>
>> https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/angeles/conditions/?cid=FSBDEV3_027721
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Scott Diamond <
>> scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > No that is not a nice e-mail. Worse though, it is factually inaccurate.
>> >
>> > I've heard these overarching statements by some that "alcohol stoves are
>> > banned from the PCT!".  Anecdotally, last summer when getting a ride up
>> to
>> > Walker pass, I was picked up by a ranger and former forest fire fighter.
>> > She indicated that there was not any ban on alcohol stoves.  I had heard
>> > that Sequoia has restrictions and I did a quick Google Search.  The
>> webpage
>> > states that for designated campgrounds
>> > <https://www.nps.gov/seki/learn/nature/fire-restrictions.htm>"propane,
>> > alcohol (with and without a shutoff valve) and tablet/cube stoves are
>> > permitted". And this is all the way up to level 3 (extreme).  The
>> > additional restrictions for backpacking
>> > <https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/minimum-impact-restrictions.htm
>> >
>> > do
>> > not mention a shut off valve.  If someone has some verifiable objective
>> > evidence showing otherwise then please post it. I'm open to learning.
>> >
>> > It is a free country and you are welcome to express your opinions. We
>> could
>> > lecture each other on the evils of Walmart, buying bottled water,  or
>> other
>> > issues but I'd suggest that lecturing people in this manner, while it
>> may
>> > make you feel better, is very ineffective.
>> >
>> >    - Rover
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 1:07 PM, marmot marmot <
>> marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > There have been so many references on line to making a fire on the
>> trail.
>> > > Hikers--class of 2017---you do not make fires. This is southern Calif.
>> > > Every section you have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of
>> > those
>> > > burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought that they
>> knew
>> > > what they were doing. You are only allowed to use a backpacking stove
>> > with
>> > > a shut off valve. No Alcohol, No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I
>> don't
>> > > care if you imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you
>> can
>> > > burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores. Campfires
>> require
>> > a
>> > > shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant free dirt. Do you have that?  I
>> > doubt
>> > > it. This is mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres.
>> This is
>> > > not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The animals,trees and plants
>> you
>> > > kill by carelessness, will never come back. It does not matter that
>> you
>> > > imagine you can control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they
>> > could
>> > > not live without a "romantic" fire.
>> > >
>> > > Marmot
>> > >
>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Pct-L mailing list
>> > > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> > >
>> > > List Archives:
>> > > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>
>

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Tue May  2 19:42:13 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 17:42:13 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAK1x7Vkapnjbm_S+hXSf5BkSSRsj3L-NcxDG4JVfjsoXpZxTTQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246D2242C27335734939C50C8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_au=HZ5zuJTp_Tg7A+OzWGVG4dJAHONPfRRctF-+9F9RVw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7V=4AA75p6Zm9fs4-jQ9Y87yC6H-AK1xKx58bF4EueKEsw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH8m_at2ZByPU=sTvn8YAnN=St3B-C+ASTb9zZqx=Jv+9fbmbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAK1x7Vkapnjbm_S+hXSf5BkSSRsj3L-NcxDG4JVfjsoXpZxTTQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz==HZN-dLCN55sqBHZ8pW1i_4RBSYVRJuGh=TNcK+ivAw@mail.gmail.com>

A few things:

Yes: humans cause more wildfires than lightning.
That doesn't mean thru hikers are causing the fires. One of the worst
fires in San Diego County was cause by sagging power lines, which was
"human caused." All things considered, thru hikers cause very little
impact on anything but the trail towns and trail angels during the
"surge" since compared to day hikers and weekenders and hunters, there
just aren't very many of us. That being said, we still need to do our
part to leave the trail as we find it.

Stoves with shutoff valves:
Each jurisdiction has its own rules. In SoCal the National Forests
generally require a shutoff valve on stoves. The BLM doesn't - they
just require the flame to be "contained." Since there are few (or no)
signs telling you on whose land you are, the easiest thing to do is
use a stove with a shuttoff everywhere - but this is not legally
required. The PCTA doesn't seem to like alcohol stoves, and their
documentation tends to overstate the restrictions. Just like their
"PCT thru hiker permit" is misleading because it is not required.

Campfires:
Illegal in almost So-Cal (roughly south of Kennedy Meadows) and in the
High Sierra in certain high use areas and above certain elevations -
these are clearly marked. If you are away from high use areas in the
northern sections of the trail, campfires aren't going to have much
impact, as long as you act responsibly.

General Fire Danger:
Much of the huge fire problem has been caused by human activity by
having a general policy of suppressing fires, which has cause a build
up of fuel, and leads to explosive fires. The SoCal drought has also
killed a bunch of trees, which adds to the problem.

Let's all be careful out there.

From julieawj at gmail.com  Tue May  2 16:59:45 2017
From: julieawj at gmail.com (Julie Jarvies)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 14:59:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2AC06B6C-139E-48F1-8F55-42596257EA32@gmail.com>

Hi guys! 
I have been reading, with interest, the debate here.  Can I encourage you to look at this another way?
Just because we can, doesn?t mean we should.

As PCT hikers I think we should be the best stewards of the trail and the surrounding beauty as we can be.
 While we may know the private, public, reservation land, forests, agencies, or governing body not all hikers do.  
You must admit, it changes quickly at times.  Rues and regulations, permits and campsites and on and on.

There are a lot of first-timers, weekend warriors, and knuckleheads on the trail.  They look to us, the more experienced
seasoned hikers, for guidance, advise and sometimes survival. As an example, I my first stove was white gas. 
A strong gust of wind at Mt. Rainier changed that forever. I was also in a ?summer blizzard? where a fire was essential
for some for survival.

Let?s allow our common sense and example rule the day and not what is /is not allowed!

Thanks for listening!
Nightingale





> On May 2, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> PCTA Website
> <https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/backcountry-basics/fire/>
> 
> 
>   - Campfires are generally not allowed on the PCT in Southern California.
>   Only the rare developed car-camping campground, with official fire
>   amenities, allow fires. The fire danger is too extreme, and population
>   centers too at-risk, to allow fires.
>   - Alcohol stoves and twig stoves can be dangerous since their fuel
>   source is not contained and there is no positive shut-off. Stories abound
>   of people burning picnic tables, themselves and starting forest fires when
>   these stoves blew or were knocked over. It is likely that if campfires are
>   prohibited, alcohol and twig stoves will be banned as well.
> 
> The above statement is not in line with your post in which you stated "You
> are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve."
> 
> My intent is not to turn this into a "flame war". I hiked the PCT without
> making a campfire and I don't see the need to make fires in the
> backcountry. But I'd argue that these extreme posts, basically yelling at
> people, are very ineffective.
> 
>  -Rover
> 
> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:10 PM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Please read the PCT website. It campfires are not allowed on the PCT in
>> the back country. Alcohol stoves and other stoves can and have turned into
>> "camp fires". Who would want to take that chance? For years and years there
>> have been polite discussions of hikers behavior. And then there's another
>> fire and another fire and another fire and....
>> One of the suggestions has been lets just call out bad behavior. That is
>> what I am doing. The trail will last,hopefully, long after this year's
>> hikers have gone home. Let's leave it intact. HYOH does not apply to
>> harmful behavior that hurts animals,insects,trees,
>> plants---the trail.
>> We are temporary visitors with a responsibly to care for the trail.
>> Marmot
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Wed May  3 09:20:29 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 14:20:29 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
References: <516305248.301295.1493821229189.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <516305248.301295.1493821229189@mail.yahoo.com>

Thank you. It's amazing that people can walk through mile after mile of burn and then think it's OK to build an illegal campfire.

What's good on the AT is not necessarily good on the PCT.

Gary
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 5/2/17, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [pct-l] Fires
 To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Tuesday, May 2, 2017, 1:07 PM
 
 There have been so many references on line to
 making a fire on the trail. Hikers--class of 2017---you do
 not make fires. This is southern Calif. Every section you
 have walked through has had enormous burns. Most of those
 burns were caused by people. ALL of those people thought
 that they knew what they were doing. You are only allowed to
 use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve. No Alcohol,
 No esbit tabs. NO STUPID CAMPFIRES. I don't care if you
 imagine that just because you have a fire permit that you
 can burn up the forest because you want to have Somemores.
 Campfires require a shovel,water,a huge diameter of plant
 free dirt. Do you have that?? I doubt it. This is
 mindless behavior. The Lake Fire burned 30,000 acres. This
 is not a nice email. It is not meant to be. The
 animals,trees and plants you kill by carelessness, will
 never come back. It does not matter that you imagine you can
 control a fire. So did everyone who thought that they could
 not live without a "romantic" fire.
 ? 
 Marmot
 

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Wed May  3 09:24:20 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 14:24:20 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <2AC06B6C-139E-48F1-8F55-42596257EA32@gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2AC06B6C-139E-48F1-8F55-42596257EA32@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>

No question that there have been many fires in CA over the last decade. But
before sending down commandments from on high, how about a little data to
inform the conversation?

How many fires have been attributed to backpackers? To long-distance hikers?

How many have been attributed to alcohol stoves? How many to stoves with
shut-off valves?
What is the baseline prevalence of alcohol stoves vs other stoves? If
alcohol stoves are used by 30% of hikers but cause 20% of fires, then the
logical conclusion is that alcohol stoves are safer than other stoves.

I'd be surprised if anyone (including the USFS and other agencies) actually
has data to support their beliefs about the danger of alcohol stoves. If
you do have data, please share it with us, and I will be glad to be
educated. Until then, I don't feel any particular need to treat folks'
opinions as anything more than what they are - beliefs untethered to
verifiable facts.

Drew

On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 6:42 PM Julie Jarvies <julieawj at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys!
> I have been reading, with interest, the debate here.  Can I encourage you
> to look at this another way?
> Just because we can, doesn?t mean we should.
>
> As PCT hikers I think we should be the best stewards of the trail and the
> surrounding beauty as we can be.
>  While we may know the private, public, reservation land, forests,
> agencies, or governing body not all hikers do.
> You must admit, it changes quickly at times.  Rues and regulations,
> permits and campsites and on and on.
>
> There are a lot of first-timers, weekend warriors, and knuckleheads on the
> trail.  They look to us, the more experienced
> seasoned hikers, for guidance, advise and sometimes survival. As an
> example, I my first stove was white gas.
> A strong gust of wind at Mt. Rainier changed that forever. I was also in a
> ?summer blizzard? where a fire was essential
> for some for survival.
>
> Let?s allow our common sense and example rule the day and not what is /is
> not allowed!
>
> Thanks for listening!
> Nightingale
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 2, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > PCTA Website
> > <https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/backcountry-basics/fire/>
> >
> >
> >   - Campfires are generally not allowed on the PCT in Southern
> California.
> >   Only the rare developed car-camping campground, with official fire
> >   amenities, allow fires. The fire danger is too extreme, and population
> >   centers too at-risk, to allow fires.
> >   - Alcohol stoves and twig stoves can be dangerous since their fuel
> >   source is not contained and there is no positive shut-off. Stories
> abound
> >   of people burning picnic tables, themselves and starting forest fires
> when
> >   these stoves blew or were knocked over. It is likely that if campfires
> are
> >   prohibited, alcohol and twig stoves will be banned as well.
> >
> > The above statement is not in line with your post in which you stated
> "You
> > are only allowed to use a backpacking stove with a shut off valve."
> >
> > My intent is not to turn this into a "flame war". I hiked the PCT without
> > making a campfire and I don't see the need to make fires in the
> > backcountry. But I'd argue that these extreme posts, basically yelling at
> > people, are very ineffective.
> >
> >  -Rover
> >
> > On Tue, May 2, 2017 at 2:10 PM, marmot marmot <
> marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Please read the PCT website. It campfires are not allowed on the PCT in
> >> the back country. Alcohol stoves and other stoves can and have turned
> into
> >> "camp fires". Who would want to take that chance? For years and years
> there
> >> have been polite discussions of hikers behavior. And then there's
> another
> >> fire and another fire and another fire and....
> >> One of the suggestions has been lets just call out bad behavior. That is
> >> what I am doing. The trail will last,hopefully, long after this year's
> >> hikers have gone home. Let's leave it intact. HYOH does not apply to
> >> harmful behavior that hurts animals,insects,trees,
> >> plants---the trail.
> >> We are temporary visitors with a responsibly to care for the trail.
> >> Marmot
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-L mailing list
> >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> >> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >> List Archives:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> >> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gfarris44 at gmail.com  Wed May  3 10:24:05 2017
From: gfarris44 at gmail.com (gfarris44 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 08:24:05 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <402F4401-B636-4678-AAA2-45137C23045D@gmail.com>


Long time ago I worked worked for the Forest Service, Inyo NF.
Biggest problem group were deer hunters, next campers.  People on horses and backpackers no issues.  
Sent from my iPad

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Wed May  3 11:23:15 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 09:23:15 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2AC06B6C-139E-48F1-8F55-42596257EA32@gmail.com>
 <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=jtcbdc+wuRiG5VSX3Ygim+DuFO9wt9Y0_QV_eyozthg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> No question that there have been many fires in CA over the last decade. But
> before sending down commandments from on high, how about a little data to
> inform the conversation?



"According to state statistics from 2013, the latest available, the
most common cause of wildfires is stray flames from debris burning, at
14 percent. Vehicle sparks ignited roughly 9 percent of fires that
year, as did power lines, and were followed by lawn mowers and other
equipment (8 percent), lightning (7 percent) and arson (6 percent)."

In this article all the "caused by campfire" wildfires - were caused by hunters.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-lighting-to-foul-play-what-causes-6511859.php

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed May  3 11:32:36 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 16:32:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246BAB16AF34AE815560F66C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Possibly this discussion will cause hikers to stop and think before they build a non essential,only in personal emergency,life-saving fire. Maybe they will follow the protocols (10(or more)ft diameter duff and plant free ground,shovel,buckets of water )that they saw in the video which they had to watch before getting the Calif Fire permit,which allows them to use a backpacking stove. 
And maybe the next time I hike the trail I won't see another burned out area that used to be miles of shady forest or thicket of chaparral. Maybe I won't have to put out yet another smoldering campfire. Who built them? I don't know. Hikers?,hunters?,
Thrus?
I can only hope
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed May  3 11:37:22 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 16:37:22 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB0246BAB16AF34AE815560F66C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246BAB16AF34AE815560F66C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB02469EFA9CBD5A4BF89E6EF6C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Meant to say essential not non
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 3, 2017, at 9:32 AM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Possibly this discussion will cause hikers to stop and think before they build a non essential,only in personal emergency,life-saving fire. Maybe they will follow the protocols (10(or more)ft diameter duff and plant free ground,shovel,buckets of water )that they saw in the video which they had to watch before getting the Calif Fire permit,which allows them to use a backpacking stove. 
> And maybe the next time I hike the trail I won't see another burned out area that used to be miles of shady forest or thicket of chaparral. Maybe I won't have to put out yet another smoldering campfire. Who built them? I don't know. Hikers?,hunters?,
> Thrus?
> I can only hope
> Marmot
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Wed May  3 12:00:32 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 17:00:32 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=jtcbdc+wuRiG5VSX3Ygim+DuFO9wt9Y0_QV_eyozthg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2AC06B6C-139E-48F1-8F55-42596257EA32@gmail.com>
 <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nz=jtcbdc+wuRiG5VSX3Ygim+DuFO9wt9Y0_QV_eyozthg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3j3KpZH895a4uhad4ev_etAORH8+Hqw31+0B+LyGW=YmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, this is helpful.
I don't doubt the good intentions of those railing against campfires and
alcohol stoves. I've hiked through all the burn areas in the SoCal PCT and
it sucks and is gut-wrenching to see beautiful landscapes turned into
Mordor scenes.

But I've also been backpacking for 50 years now and have used every kind of
stove there is. White gas stoves - which are pressurized, and usually
require priming with a cup of gas that can easily overflow - scare me way
more than alcohol stoves. Upright canister stoves are inherently unstable
and scare me too.

A far better approach than creating an evidence-free fatwa against alcohol
stoves is to insist that everyone clear out a 2-3 ft radius of flammable
material from their stove. This rule is far more logical, enforceable and
effective than trying to parse minute differences in danger from different
stove types.

Drew

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:23 AM Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
wrote:

> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> > No question that there have been many fires in CA over the last decade.
> But
> > before sending down commandments from on high, how about a little data to
> > inform the conversation?
>
>
>
> "According to state statistics from 2013, the latest available, the
> most common cause of wildfires is stray flames from debris burning, at
> 14 percent. Vehicle sparks ignited roughly 9 percent of fires that
> year, as did power lines, and were followed by lawn mowers and other
> equipment (8 percent), lightning (7 percent) and arson (6 percent)."
>
> In this article all the "caused by campfire" wildfires - were caused by
> hunters.
>
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/From-lighting-to-foul-play-what-causes-6511859.php
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From sbryce at scottbryce.com  Wed May  3 12:17:19 2017
From: sbryce at scottbryce.com (Scott Bryce)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:17:19 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAFiWH3j3KpZH895a4uhad4ev_etAORH8+Hqw31+0B+LyGW=YmQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246864ED3805769640210CCC8170@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_avVQUQ3Zo-f+u+2P+Hk0JufVdM8_Kxbe8n_N5DDb=FqcQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <2AC06B6C-139E-48F1-8F55-42596257EA32@gmail.com>
 <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1Nz=jtcbdc+wuRiG5VSX3Ygim+DuFO9wt9Y0_QV_eyozthg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFiWH3j3KpZH895a4uhad4ev_etAORH8+Hqw31+0B+LyGW=YmQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3a92b963-fdda-2ef4-6c88-fb7cbc7b93f7@scottbryce.com>

On 5/3/2017 11:00 AM, Drew Smith wrote:
> A far better approach than creating an evidence-free fatwa against
> alcohol stoves is to insist that everyone clear out a 2-3 ft radius
> of flammable material from their stove.

Of course, that would go against LNT practices, unless there is already
such a cleared space where you plan to use your stove.


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  3 12:56:29 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 10:56:29 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
Message-ID: <CALu=H=hEHyf2zJtk-9p3MLFJ26G9hWiWLx0_SzF3qwSs2bQDow@mail.gmail.com>

Garrett,

Trout Lake Grocery is about as hiker friendly a place as one might find off
the trail.

The owner is widowed and lives in the house behind the store. She and her
now deceased husband befriended short and long distance bicyclists, before
turning their affection towards hikers.

There are 2 rooms above the store available to rent. Room A has two single
beds and a TV with a VCR. Bedroom B has a queen size bed. I am not sure
what accouterments are part of the furnishings in Room B as I stayed in
Room A. Now that I think of it, a female hiker renting Room B came into
"our" room (3 hikers shared the room) to watch movies and eat ICE CREAM, so
Room B must be spartan in furnishings. There is a shared bathroom upstairs
with a tub, sink and stool. The cost for either room is $25 and the owner
didn't seem to care one way or the other how many people shared the room.
Movies available for rent in the store are FREE to hikers that are renting
the rooms. Also, fresh coffee is available and complimentary for hikers
that rent the rooms starting around 6:30 am.

Downstairs, and located in the back of the store, is Room C, and is on the
order of a typical master bedroom set up with a king size bed, big screen
TV (not sure about a VCR) a full bathroom and access to the laundry room
via a passageway off of the bathroom. I believe this room also rents for
$25 and again, I don't think the owner puts a limit on how many hikers pile
into the room. You simply cannot get more hiker friendly than that. The
free movies policy applies to this room as well. There is also an outside
door on the side of the building that gives other hikers access to the
laundry room which consists of one washer and one dryer. If memory serves
me correctly, the laundry use was part of the room rent and one only needed
to supply their own soap and such.

Outside the store, and lying between a garage size storage building and the
owner's house, is about a quarter acre yard of manicured grass that hikers
are permitted to camp upon. The small "barn" has a small table and one 2
plugged outlet for charging electronics. There is a water spigot outside
but the location escapes me.

The store has a limited amount of "hiker like" foods, but with discernment
one can resupply. Yogi says in her book that she does not recommend Trout
Lake for resupply. I completely disagree with her opinion and find her lack
of any kind of endorsement for this super hiker friendly store akin to
malpractice, and you can tell her I said so (not that my opinion would
matter to her). Hi Yogi !  Paint Your Wagon here- ;0) On second thought-
don't tell her. Lol. I probably just earned myself an ass whoopin'. (more)
Lol.

The store is a one off locally owned attraction and community hub for
visitors and residents alike. There are several fresh cuts of grass fed
beef available in the front cold case, and a small variety of fresh
vegetables, both in one of the cold cases and in boxes and baskets on
shelves in the back of the store. There are many car camper foods that can
be un-packaged and substituted for the more desirable hiker friendly fares
that are lacking, but- they do come with an obviously undesirable weight
penalty. Hint: eat these items first.

Now about the important stuff- there are several varieties of Tillamook ice
cream to choose from, and both low test and high test craft beers, and
about a dozen types of hard liquor behind the counter.

The owner will give small amounts of cash back at the time of purchase.

The owner can arrange for shuttles out of town to places like Portland for
hikers wanting to get off trail and reach national and international
transportation services. Likewise a visit to a medical facility or gear
shop elsewhere can be negotiated.

The front porch is spacious and well shaded and has an electrical outlet
available for charging electronics, and local folks stop by to offer rides
back to the trail heads for gas money. Note: there is a "north" and a
"south" vector off the PCT to access Trout Lake. I hitchhiked both times
into town with nominal wait times. An elderly gent gave me a ride on the
southern route but misunderstood me, putting me out well over 10-15 miles
from town. I walked a few miles and then landed a ride the rest of the way
into town. A mushroom hunter picked me up at the northern route into town,
and took me all the way in. To get back to the trail both times, the same
local man took me all the way back to the trail heads. He would not take my
money when offered the second time.

Lastly, there were several hikers gathered together, and we all bought more
food than we could eat or carry, so we elected to have a cookout using a
charcoal grill that the store provided. We had so much food and with hiker
midnight upon us, the owner offered us the use of her gas grill at her
house nearby, and she baked some potatoes in her house oven, to speed up
the cooking process.

The people in Trout Lake are the bomb ! I unabashedly give a special shout
out to the Trout Lake Grocery Store, for hiker friendliness, and going
above and beyond the call of duty. I am sorry to say that the owner's name
escapes me at the moment.

I believe that there was also a local bar / restaurant about 2 doors down
from the grocery store one way, and a combination gas station / restaurant,
very much like the grocery store, in that they are perhaps just as hiker
friendly, and also have a lawn to camp on. Rumor has it that this location
makes delicious sandwiches on the order of Paradise Valley Cafe, from way
back at mile # 152.

FWIW- I south-bounded from Canada, to McKenzie Pass in Oregon, after first
doing 210 miles from Mexico to the I-10 (Ziggy and The Bear's) back in
2015. I got off the trail in mid November after getting blown away by a
snow storm that was about all I wanted that season, having started the
trail March 3rd.

Best regards,

Paint (various miles of the PCT- 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, & hopefully later in
17)

Woot! Woot!

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed May  3 13:01:25 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 18:01:25 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=hEHyf2zJtk-9p3MLFJ26G9hWiWLx0_SzF3qwSs2bQDow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=hEHyf2zJtk-9p3MLFJ26G9hWiWLx0_SzF3qwSs2bQDow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB024685C6F99E3FEA0BE98E87C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

It used to be true that it was a tough hitch.  But on my second hike,I found it so easy. And it's so true that this is a super hiker friendly town. The whole town seems to have embraced hikers 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 3, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Garrett,
> 
> Trout Lake Grocery is about as hiker friendly a place as one might find off
> the trail.
> 
> The owner is widowed and lives in the house behind the store. She and her
> now deceased husband befriended short and long distance bicyclists, before
> turning their affection towards hikers.
> 
> There are 2 rooms above the store available to rent. Room A has two single
> beds and a TV with a VCR. Bedroom B has a queen size bed. I am not sure
> what accouterments are part of the furnishings in Room B as I stayed in
> Room A. Now that I think of it, a female hiker renting Room B came into
> "our" room (3 hikers shared the room) to watch movies and eat ICE CREAM, so
> Room B must be spartan in furnishings. There is a shared bathroom upstairs
> with a tub, sink and stool. The cost for either room is $25 and the owner
> didn't seem to care one way or the other how many people shared the room.
> Movies available for rent in the store are FREE to hikers that are renting
> the rooms. Also, fresh coffee is available and complimentary for hikers
> that rent the rooms starting around 6:30 am.
> 
> Downstairs, and located in the back of the store, is Room C, and is on the
> order of a typical master bedroom set up with a king size bed, big screen
> TV (not sure about a VCR) a full bathroom and access to the laundry room
> via a passageway off of the bathroom. I believe this room also rents for
> $25 and again, I don't think the owner puts a limit on how many hikers pile
> into the room. You simply cannot get more hiker friendly than that. The
> free movies policy applies to this room as well. There is also an outside
> door on the side of the building that gives other hikers access to the
> laundry room which consists of one washer and one dryer. If memory serves
> me correctly, the laundry use was part of the room rent and one only needed
> to supply their own soap and such.
> 
> Outside the store, and lying between a garage size storage building and the
> owner's house, is about a quarter acre yard of manicured grass that hikers
> are permitted to camp upon. The small "barn" has a small table and one 2
> plugged outlet for charging electronics. There is a water spigot outside
> but the location escapes me.
> 
> The store has a limited amount of "hiker like" foods, but with discernment
> one can resupply. Yogi says in her book that she does not recommend Trout
> Lake for resupply. I completely disagree with her opinion and find her lack
> of any kind of endorsement for this super hiker friendly store akin to
> malpractice, and you can tell her I said so (not that my opinion would
> matter to her). Hi Yogi !  Paint Your Wagon here- ;0) On second thought-
> don't tell her. Lol. I probably just earned myself an ass whoopin'. (more)
> Lol.
> 
> The store is a one off locally owned attraction and community hub for
> visitors and residents alike. There are several fresh cuts of grass fed
> beef available in the front cold case, and a small variety of fresh
> vegetables, both in one of the cold cases and in boxes and baskets on
> shelves in the back of the store. There are many car camper foods that can
> be un-packaged and substituted for the more desirable hiker friendly fares
> that are lacking, but- they do come with an obviously undesirable weight
> penalty. Hint: eat these items first.
> 
> Now about the important stuff- there are several varieties of Tillamook ice
> cream to choose from, and both low test and high test craft beers, and
> about a dozen types of hard liquor behind the counter.
> 
> The owner will give small amounts of cash back at the time of purchase.
> 
> The owner can arrange for shuttles out of town to places like Portland for
> hikers wanting to get off trail and reach national and international
> transportation services. Likewise a visit to a medical facility or gear
> shop elsewhere can be negotiated.
> 
> The front porch is spacious and well shaded and has an electrical outlet
> available for charging electronics, and local folks stop by to offer rides
> back to the trail heads for gas money. Note: there is a "north" and a
> "south" vector off the PCT to access Trout Lake. I hitchhiked both times
> into town with nominal wait times. An elderly gent gave me a ride on the
> southern route but misunderstood me, putting me out well over 10-15 miles
> from town. I walked a few miles and then landed a ride the rest of the way
> into town. A mushroom hunter picked me up at the northern route into town,
> and took me all the way in. To get back to the trail both times, the same
> local man took me all the way back to the trail heads. He would not take my
> money when offered the second time.
> 
> Lastly, there were several hikers gathered together, and we all bought more
> food than we could eat or carry, so we elected to have a cookout using a
> charcoal grill that the store provided. We had so much food and with hiker
> midnight upon us, the owner offered us the use of her gas grill at her
> house nearby, and she baked some potatoes in her house oven, to speed up
> the cooking process.
> 
> The people in Trout Lake are the bomb ! I unabashedly give a special shout
> out to the Trout Lake Grocery Store, for hiker friendliness, and going
> above and beyond the call of duty. I am sorry to say that the owner's name
> escapes me at the moment.
> 
> I believe that there was also a local bar / restaurant about 2 doors down
> from the grocery store one way, and a combination gas station / restaurant,
> very much like the grocery store, in that they are perhaps just as hiker
> friendly, and also have a lawn to camp on. Rumor has it that this location
> makes delicious sandwiches on the order of Paradise Valley Cafe, from way
> back at mile # 152.
> 
> FWIW- I south-bounded from Canada, to McKenzie Pass in Oregon, after first
> doing 210 miles from Mexico to the I-10 (Ziggy and The Bear's) back in
> 2015. I got off the trail in mid November after getting blown away by a
> snow storm that was about all I wanted that season, having started the
> trail March 3rd.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Paint (various miles of the PCT- 2012, 13, 14, 15, 16, & hopefully later in
> 17)
> 
> Woot! Woot!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:17:26 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 12:17:26 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB024685C6F99E3FEA0BE98E87C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CALu=H=hEHyf2zJtk-9p3MLFJ26G9hWiWLx0_SzF3qwSs2bQDow@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY2PR20MB024685C6F99E3FEA0BE98E87C8160@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5a626f43-f71f-070e-3d50-a183587e918b@gmail.com>

In 2005 I started hitching at 8AM, started walking at 10, was picked up 
at noon or so, and totally enjoyed the burg of Trout Lake.

Jeff
Laramie

On 5/3/2017 12:01 PM, marmot marmot wrote:
> It used to be true that it was a tough hitch.  But on my second hike,I found it so easy. And it's so true that this is a super hiker friendly town. The whole town seems to have embraced hikers
> Marmot
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:41:17 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:41:17 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? (addendum)
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jWd4_O37nQWz3QzT7pVxs-WuDeqZGL_cxxWBrQ-wRmvw@mail.gmail.com>

I am following up on the original post and subsequent question about a
rumor that a hiker had broken their leg up in the Sierras presumably hiking
the PCT. I am positing that the following CHP report detailing a second
rescue incident off of Mt. Whitney, might be the catalyst or origin of the
alleged rumor mongering.

Here's the beef-

[ At approximately 12:30 Saturday April 22nd, Inyo County Sheriff?s
Dispatch received notification of an avalanche, with one reported injury,
on the lower end of the Mountaineer?s Route (~9,500 elevation). The
reporting party did not witness the avalanche, but as he was hiking he
noticed the runout zone of the avalanche, and below that there was one
injured male hiker believed to be suffering from a broken leg ]

Two SARs on Mt. Whitney

At approximately 4:00pm Friday April 21st, Inyo County Sheriff?s Dispatch
received notification of a potential fatality on the Mt. Whitney
Mountaineer?s Route. According to the reporting party, who was a member of
a hiking group that was descending the trail, a male solo hiker passed the
group ascending in the last chute near the summit (~13,800 elevation).
Sometime after the hiking group was continuing their descent a backpack
tumbled down near them that the hikers recognized as the backpack belonging
to the solo hiker. The members of the group called out repeatedly, but
there was no response. In order to get enough reception to call into the
Sheriff?s Office they hiked down to Iceberg Lake (~12,600 elevation) to
dial 911. Inyo Sheriff started an investigation but it was too dark to
begin an aerial search.

CHP H-80 out of Apple Valley responded the morning of Saturday April 22,
and located the body around 1:00pm. The body was inside the boundary of
Sequoia-Kings National Park, and therefore the recovery was coordinated
through Sequoia-Kings.

At approximately 12:30 Saturday April 22nd, Inyo County Sheriff?s Dispatch
received notification of an avalanche, with one reported injury, on the
lower end of the Mountaineer?s Route (~9,500 elevation). The reporting
party did not witness the avalanche, but as he was hiking he noticed the
runout zone of the avalanche, and below that there was one injured male
hiker believed to be suffering from a broken leg.

Although CHP H-80 was already near Mt. Whitney doing aerial reconnaissance
for the fatality, they were unable to assist because they are not hoist
certified. Additional aerial support was requested through Inyo County
Search and Rescue, and CHP H-70 out of Paso Robles was able to respond.

The avalanche victim, identified as Sung Kim, 64 year old male from
Fullerton, CA, was successfully airlifted out and transported to Southern
Inyo Hospital for treatment.

Due to historic snowfall in the Sierra we want to remind outdoor
enthusiasts that the risk of avalanches is greater than in past years.
Additionally, the high snowpack requires experience and technical skills.

Agencies assisting this weekend include: CHP H-80, CHP H-70, Sequoia-Kings,
Inyo SAR, Inyo Sheriff.

Best regards,

Paint

Note: This report leaves the reader confused by commenting on an individual
at possibly (~9,500') that broke their leg due to the effects of an
avalanche, then refers to a deceased individual at possibly (~13,800') as
"the" avalanche victim.

Question: Are there two incidents?

Question? Are there two individuals: one deceased, and one injured?

Question? Did Sung Kim get carried down slope by an avalanche, from 13,800'
to 9,500', and that there is only one victim / individual?

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:44:28 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:44:28 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? (addendum)
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gOSAvjZ7F5iYvKAFdizCqDVjP9V+RD1eG3v74MmLtkWw@mail.gmail.com>

I forgot to include the source and link to my post.

https://www.facebook.com/CHP-Coastal-Division-Air-Operations-276737786013059/

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  3 13:56:44 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 11:56:44 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Floods possible as warmth melts heavy Sierra snowpack
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gg4tsSfAxhUp1rum3Fzu+FRMi65-uEkLWVq1xgax5W6w@mail.gmail.com>

[ State officials reported 190 percent of average snowpack at their central
test site, Phillips Station in El Dorado County, about 15 miles southwest
of Lake Tahoe near the Sierra-at-Tahoe ski resort. Statewide, snowpack
measured 196 percent of average. ]

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/First-came-the-heavy-snow-now-comes-the-big-melt-11113066.php

4:10 video  / 24 million acre feet of water estimated

Be careful out there.

Paint.

From veselyjames at gmail.com  Wed May  3 14:15:25 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 12:15:25 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? (addendum)
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jWd4_O37nQWz3QzT7pVxs-WuDeqZGL_cxxWBrQ-wRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=jWd4_O37nQWz3QzT7pVxs-WuDeqZGL_cxxWBrQ-wRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpsx+rBz+FssdzhBH=snC1B8YNjxFZa=C=i_5GW8hsRX2nQ@mail.gmail.com>

Looks like two separate incidents.  One on April 21 and another on April 22.

Jim

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am following up on the original post and subsequent question about a
> rumor that a hiker had broken their leg up in the Sierras presumably hiking
> the PCT. I am positing that the following CHP report detailing a second
> rescue incident off of Mt. Whitney, might be the catalyst or origin of the
> alleged rumor mongering.
>
> Here's the beef-
>
> [ At approximately 12:30 Saturday April 22nd, Inyo County Sheriff?s
> Dispatch received notification of an avalanche, with one reported injury,
> on the lower end of the Mountaineer?s Route (~9,500 elevation). The
> reporting party did not witness the avalanche, but as he was hiking he
> noticed the runout zone of the avalanche, and below that there was one
> injured male hiker believed to be suffering from a broken leg ]
>
> Two SARs on Mt. Whitney
>
> At approximately 4:00pm Friday April 21st, Inyo County Sheriff?s Dispatch
> received notification of a potential fatality on the Mt. Whitney
> Mountaineer?s Route. According to the reporting party, who was a member of
> a hiking group that was descending the trail, a male solo hiker passed the
> group ascending in the last chute near the summit (~13,800 elevation).
> Sometime after the hiking group was continuing their descent a backpack
> tumbled down near them that the hikers recognized as the backpack belonging
> to the solo hiker. The members of the group called out repeatedly, but
> there was no response. In order to get enough reception to call into the
> Sheriff?s Office they hiked down to Iceberg Lake (~12,600 elevation) to
> dial 911. Inyo Sheriff started an investigation but it was too dark to
> begin an aerial search.
>
> CHP H-80 out of Apple Valley responded the morning of Saturday April 22,
> and located the body around 1:00pm. The body was inside the boundary of
> Sequoia-Kings National Park, and therefore the recovery was coordinated
> through Sequoia-Kings.
>
> At approximately 12:30 Saturday April 22nd, Inyo County Sheriff?s Dispatch
> received notification of an avalanche, with one reported injury, on the
> lower end of the Mountaineer?s Route (~9,500 elevation). The reporting
> party did not witness the avalanche, but as he was hiking he noticed the
> runout zone of the avalanche, and below that there was one injured male
> hiker believed to be suffering from a broken leg.
>
> Although CHP H-80 was already near Mt. Whitney doing aerial reconnaissance
> for the fatality, they were unable to assist because they are not hoist
> certified. Additional aerial support was requested through Inyo County
> Search and Rescue, and CHP H-70 out of Paso Robles was able to respond.
>
> The avalanche victim, identified as Sung Kim, 64 year old male from
> Fullerton, CA, was successfully airlifted out and transported to Southern
> Inyo Hospital for treatment.
>
> Due to historic snowfall in the Sierra we want to remind outdoor
> enthusiasts that the risk of avalanches is greater than in past years.
> Additionally, the high snowpack requires experience and technical skills.
>
> Agencies assisting this weekend include: CHP H-80, CHP H-70, Sequoia-Kings,
> Inyo SAR, Inyo Sheriff.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paint
>
> Note: This report leaves the reader confused by commenting on an individual
> at possibly (~9,500') that broke their leg due to the effects of an
> avalanche, then refers to a deceased individual at possibly (~13,800') as
> "the" avalanche victim.
>
> Question: Are there two incidents?
>
> Question? Are there two individuals: one deceased, and one injured?
>
> Question? Did Sung Kim get carried down slope by an avalanche, from 13,800'
> to 9,500', and that there is only one victim / individual?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  3 14:27:58 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 12:27:58 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Anecdotal observations: PCT Water Report & Sierra Snow and
 Ford Report (new this year)
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iHmgvPeTAH+vWBAXQ=BV=4+HuLoMNvyh9MLCUgY-6Jrg@mail.gmail.com>

I was curious about the water report, and the snow and ford report, and
what were the hikers reporting to them, for this time of year.

It's interesting to note that the below entry is the most current and
farthest north, so far- to be reported for this season about this
particular water source.

Pacific Crest Trail Water Report

https://pctwater.com/



Part Three: Agua Dulce to Cottonwood Pass

file:///C:/Users/TEX/Downloads/Pacific%20Crest%20Trail%20Water%20Report%20-%20Agua%20Dulce%20-%20Cottonwood%20Pass%20(2).pdf

G6 / 697.9 / WR699 / *South Fork Kern River Full and high, good water /
4/14/17 / Jo



Sierra Snow and Ford Report (new this year)

file:///C:/Users/TEX/Downloads/Pacific%20Crest%20Trail%20Water%20Report%20-%20Snow%20Report%20(1).pdf

D4 / 377.9 / 9,390 / Mt Baden Powell / 4/24/17 / Aaron

4/24/17 (Aaron) : Microspikes and hiking poles a must, ice axe and crampons
not needed. Recommend having Guthooks or route finding skills as the trail
disappears from time to time. Ground was consistently covered in slushy
snow starting at 8500 ft which is when the trail disappears for the most
part. Lots of footprints going in various directions. Kicking steps rather
than following others' footprints often made for better traction. Due to an
injury, I also descended today with glissading being the easiest way down.
Ice axe would have been nice but poles did the job in terms of controlling
the short glissades. No need to take the alternate route. Brave the snow
and enjoy the amazing view from the top!!

-----

4/19/17 (Ghost) : Snow level about 7500 feet. approx 1.5 miles from bottom
of trail. Full snow (no bare trail visible) after about 8500. The surface
is starting to suncup, which made for good foot placements. The slope will
be icy early. I hit 8500 feet at 11 am and The snow was softening to
provide more traction. The fastest/most effecient route above 8500 is
directly up to the summit. I used Micro spikes and poles. I would not
recommend going without spikes or crampons. From Summit going west, the PCT
follows the ridge line. Snow was in good condition for walking and there
was ample bare ridge which was easy to walk on. Towards the end of the
ridge it's necessary to traverse on 25 - degree north slopes, but the
afternoon sun facilitated good step kicking. The middle of day is best time
for travel, due to softer snow conditions, I'd avoid early morning or end
of day. Navigation skills a prerequisite, as trail is not visible about
8500 feet. Crampons would be first choice over microspikes.

The last I heard (from Postholer's snowpack link) is that June 15th is the
date to enter the Sierras, from mile 702- Kennedy Meadows.

Paint

From teresadattolo at gmail.com  Wed May  3 14:50:46 2017
From: teresadattolo at gmail.com (Teresa D)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 12:50:46 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? (addendum)
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jWd4_O37nQWz3QzT7pVxs-WuDeqZGL_cxxWBrQ-wRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=jWd4_O37nQWz3QzT7pVxs-WuDeqZGL_cxxWBrQ-wRmvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGcXdJZcaGhJ_Dp=-mgvr-9kx4MEtN61G1e3VxZS-z03-5wEvg@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't find the report confusing. There are two incidents with
overlapping timelines:

Incident 1:
-reported April 21
-solo hiker, unnamed
-deceased
-13800 ft
-body presumably recovered next day April 22
-I don't see where he is refered to as an avalanche victim

Incident two:
-reported April 22
-one hiker injured in avalanche
-Sung Kim, rescued and brought to hospital
-9,500 ft
-rescued presumably on april 22

Hope that helps clarify things. What a shame to hear about these incidents.
Best of luck to Sung Kim in a full recovery.

-Teresa

On Wednesday, May 3, 2017, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am following up on the original post and subsequent question about a
> rumor that a hiker had broken their leg up in the Sierras presumably hiking
> the PCT. I am positing that the following CHP report detailing a second
> rescue incident off of Mt. Whitney, might be the catalyst or origin of the
> alleged rumor mongering.
>
> Here's the beef-
>
> [ At approximately 12:30 Saturday April 22nd, Inyo County Sheriff?s
> Dispatch received notification of an avalanche, with one reported injury,
> on the lower end of the Mountaineer?s Route (~9,500 elevation). The
> reporting party did not witness the avalanche, but as he was hiking he
> noticed the runout zone of the avalanche, and below that there was one
> injured male hiker believed to be suffering from a broken leg ]
>
> Two SARs on Mt. Whitney
>
> At approximately 4:00pm Friday April 21st, Inyo County Sheriff?s Dispatch
> received notification of a potential fatality on the Mt. Whitney
> Mountaineer?s Route. According to the reporting party, who was a member of
> a hiking group that was descending the trail, a male solo hiker passed the
> group ascending in the last chute near the summit (~13,800 elevation).
> Sometime after the hiking group was continuing their descent a backpack
> tumbled down near them that the hikers recognized as the backpack belonging
> to the solo hiker. The members of the group called out repeatedly, but
> there was no response. In order to get enough reception to call into the
> Sheriff?s Office they hiked down to Iceberg Lake (~12,600 elevation) to
> dial 911. Inyo Sheriff started an investigation but it was too dark to
> begin an aerial search.
>
> CHP H-80 out of Apple Valley responded the morning of Saturday April 22,
> and located the body around 1:00pm. The body was inside the boundary of
> Sequoia-Kings National Park, and therefore the recovery was coordinated
> through Sequoia-Kings.
>
> At approximately 12:30 Saturday April 22nd, Inyo County Sheriff?s Dispatch
> received notification of an avalanche, with one reported injury, on the
> lower end of the Mountaineer?s Route (~9,500 elevation). The reporting
> party did not witness the avalanche, but as he was hiking he noticed the
> runout zone of the avalanche, and below that there was one injured male
> hiker believed to be suffering from a broken leg.
>
> Although CHP H-80 was already near Mt. Whitney doing aerial reconnaissance
> for the fatality, they were unable to assist because they are not hoist
> certified. Additional aerial support was requested through Inyo County
> Search and Rescue, and CHP H-70 out of Paso Robles was able to respond.
>
> The avalanche victim, identified as Sung Kim, 64 year old male from
> Fullerton, CA, was successfully airlifted out and transported to Southern
> Inyo Hospital for treatment.
>
> Due to historic snowfall in the Sierra we want to remind outdoor
> enthusiasts that the risk of avalanches is greater than in past years.
> Additionally, the high snowpack requires experience and technical skills.
>
> Agencies assisting this weekend include: CHP H-80, CHP H-70, Sequoia-Kings,
> Inyo SAR, Inyo Sheriff.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paint
>
> Note: This report leaves the reader confused by commenting on an individual
> at possibly (~9,500') that broke their leg due to the effects of an
> avalanche, then refers to a deceased individual at possibly (~13,800') as
> "the" avalanche victim.
>
> Question: Are there two incidents?
>
> Question? Are there two individuals: one deceased, and one injured?
>
> Question? Did Sung Kim get carried down slope by an avalanche, from 13,800'
> to 9,500', and that there is only one victim / individual?
> _______________________________________________
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From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Wed May  3 15:06:21 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (pctl at marcusschwartz.com)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 13:06:21 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
In-Reply-To: &lt;1900840429.658134.1493744179326@mail.yahoo.com&gt;
Message-ID: <0ba2eb89f68b0a6d6ef195bb8321355dddcda2e1@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>

1. There were some mosquitoes in the evenings when I was there in
early September.? My guess is that it'll probably be significantly
worse in early August, and in a wetter year.

2. Last I heard (which may have changed since September), Road 23 was
closed somewhere west of the PCT.? So, it's currently a road from
Trout Lake to nowhere.? So you don't see a lot of through traffic.

Fortunately, Trout Lake is maybe the most hiker-friendly town on the
trail.? They've set up a phone number you can call to get a ride from
one of the town's many trail angels.? They'll drive out and pick you
up.? There's cell phone coverage about 2 miles south of the road, but
*NOT* at the road, so be sure to check Halfmile's app (or your phone's
signal strength).? The town has a section of their website with more
information (including the phone number):
http://troutlakewashington.com/pacific-crest-trail-hiker-information/

During the height of PCT season, you might be able to hitch without a
phone call, just because so many PCT hikers are coming through, so
trail angels may be there anyway.? I think early August is probably
too early for this.

To hike back, you can ask around at the general store, or at the
restaurant/gas station, or just stand in the middle of town and stick
your thumb out.? It's not unlikely that someone will talk to you and
offer a ride.? In my case, someone actually approached my group the
night before and made an appointment to drive me back to the trail the
next morning.? They really, really go out of their way to help hikers
here.

I'm not sure which road Paint Your Wagon was talking about as the more
southerly route.

3. I can't remember.

As for places to stay, I personally enjoyed the bed and breakfast.?
It's more expensive than the general store's spare rooms, but it's
plush and nicely-decorated, and altogether a nice blast of
civilization in the middle of a fairly remote part of the trail.? I'm
a sucker for that kind of thing.? Anywhere else it would be a great
deal for a nice place to stay, it's just that Trout Lake likes hikers
so much you might be able to stay cheaper elsewhere.

?-=Town Food

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garrett" <gar1138 at yahoo.com>
To:"pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 2 May 2017 16:56:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject:[pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions

 Hello, long time reader, first time poster. :-)? I completed the
Oregon PCT in sections over the last two summers.? This summer (2017)
I plan to hike from Cascade Locks to Snoqualmie Pass in roughly the
first two weeks of August.? After researching a bunch, I have a few
quick questions:

 1.? Any thoughts on snow or mosquitos?? I'm hoping that the heavy
winter snow this year won't be much of an issue then.

 2.? I will be resupplying and spending a night in Trout Lake (I hear
nothing but good things about Trout Lake).? How difficult is it to
hitch a ride into town from the trail (and back the next day)?? Most
accounts say it is fairly easy, but having never hitch-hiked before it
does give me slight pause.

 3.? Are there any difficult stream crossings or fords that I will
need to be aware of?

 Much appreciated, thanks.

 Garrett
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Wed May  3 16:12:52 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (pctl at marcusschwartz.com)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2017 14:12:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ac061b7260c51d07b00110b5173e6234c3e37e9f@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>

I think alcohol stoves are much, much lower than 30% these days.? My
hike was 2016, and I'm not sure if I saw a single thru-hiker other
than myself use an alcohol stove (except one who got rid of it in the
first 200 miles).? Hiker boxes almost never had alcohol.? Some
hikers regarded my alcohol stove as an exotic (but silly) device.?
Most hikers I ate with either used a canister stove, an integrated
canister stove (e.g. JetBoil), or no stove.

I switched to a canister stove around Walker Pass.? Guessing how much
fuel I needed was a pain, wasting fuel when I guessed too high was a
pain, repriming when I guessed too low was a pain, having no control
over the heat was a pain, it cooked more slowly, I needed to worry
about wind a lot, and it didn't have a shutoff valve.? The canister
stove I used had none of those problems, and was less than 1oz, so the
weight difference was negligible.? Fuel was lighter per BTU, too.

Eventually, I switched to no stove.? Waiting to eat when it's cold
out is no fun, and cleaning cookware when it's cold out is really no
fun.? I found that even with a canister stove, cooking/eating/washing
added almost an hour to making camp.

So, I think we'll see a disappearance of alcohol stoves, not because
of fire danger, but because modern canister stoves (or no-stove
techniques) outpaced them.

?-=Town Food

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Smith" <jdrewsmith at gmail.com>
To:
Cc:"pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent:Wed, 03 May 2017 14:24:20 +0000
Subject:Re: [pct-l] Fires

[cut]
 What is the baseline prevalence of alcohol stoves vs other stoves? If
 alcohol stoves are used by 30% of hikers but cause 20% of fires, then
the
 logical conclusion is that alcohol stoves are safer than other
stoves.
[cut]


From veselyjames at gmail.com  Wed May  3 20:26:22 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Wed, 3 May 2017 18:26:22 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <ac061b7260c51d07b00110b5173e6234c3e37e9f@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>
References: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac061b7260c51d07b00110b5173e6234c3e37e9f@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpswS_K3tfRJaKuSB8iVsWp-z2i7TSYFPBK-DXnLgzEZiDA@mail.gmail.com>

We might be losing sight of the fire through the trees.

Fire has  always been a part of a healthy forest and as we all know the
suppression of forest fires caused the predicament we are now in. Native
American Indians created fires to keep the land and Meadows clear and
naturally started forest fires such as lightning strikes self regulated the
build-up of combustible materials and the kept the tree density low.  The
current situation is not sustainable and sooner or later there will be
large canopy fires  whether started by man or not that burn so hot  they
cannot be extinguished.  Sure, walking through a burnt-out forest is not
picturesque but it is more natural than most of us know.  We need to see
fire as nature's way of balancing the ecosystem.


Jim

On May 3, 2017 2:12 PM, <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:

> I think alcohol stoves are much, much lower than 30% these days.  My
> hike was 2016, and I'm not sure if I saw a single thru-hiker other
> than myself use an alcohol stove (except one who got rid of it in the
> first 200 miles).  Hiker boxes almost never had alcohol.  Some
> hikers regarded my alcohol stove as an exotic (but silly) device.
> Most hikers I ate with either used a canister stove, an integrated
> canister stove (e.g. JetBoil), or no stove.
>
> I switched to a canister stove around Walker Pass.  Guessing how much
> fuel I needed was a pain, wasting fuel when I guessed too high was a
> pain, repriming when I guessed too low was a pain, having no control
> over the heat was a pain, it cooked more slowly, I needed to worry
> about wind a lot, and it didn't have a shutoff valve.  The canister
> stove I used had none of those problems, and was less than 1oz, so the
> weight difference was negligible.  Fuel was lighter per BTU, too.
>
> Eventually, I switched to no stove.  Waiting to eat when it's cold
> out is no fun, and cleaning cookware when it's cold out is really no
> fun.  I found that even with a canister stove, cooking/eating/washing
> added almost an hour to making camp.
>
> So, I think we'll see a disappearance of alcohol stoves, not because
> of fire danger, but because modern canister stoves (or no-stove
> techniques) outpaced them.
>
>  -=Town Food
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Drew Smith" <jdrewsmith at gmail.com>
> To:
> Cc:"pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent:Wed, 03 May 2017 14:24:20 +0000
> Subject:Re: [pct-l] Fires
>
> [cut]
>  What is the baseline prevalence of alcohol stoves vs other stoves? If
>  alcohol stoves are used by 30% of hikers but cause 20% of fires, then
> the
>  logical conclusion is that alcohol stoves are safer than other
> stoves.
> [cut]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Thu May  4 06:36:00 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 11:36:00 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CAMxQpswS_K3tfRJaKuSB8iVsWp-z2i7TSYFPBK-DXnLgzEZiDA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac061b7260c51d07b00110b5173e6234c3e37e9f@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>,
 <CAMxQpswS_K3tfRJaKuSB8iVsWp-z2i7TSYFPBK-DXnLgzEZiDA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246428CD80668A198D64F23C8EA0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

This model in Southern California concerning chaparral does not apply. The research indicates that fires are counter productive
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 3, 2017, at 6:26 PM, James Vesely <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We might be losing sight of the fire through the trees.
> 
> Fire has  always been a part of a healthy forest and as we all know the
> suppression of forest fires caused the predicament we are now in. Native
> American Indians created fires to keep the land and Meadows clear and
> naturally started forest fires such as lightning strikes self regulated the
> build-up of combustible materials and the kept the tree density low.  The
> current situation is not sustainable and sooner or later there will be
> large canopy fires  whether started by man or not that burn so hot  they
> cannot be extinguished.  Sure, walking through a burnt-out forest is not
> picturesque but it is more natural than most of us know.  We need to see
> fire as nature's way of balancing the ecosystem.
> 
> 
> Jim
> 
>> On May 3, 2017 2:12 PM, <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think alcohol stoves are much, much lower than 30% these days.  My
>> hike was 2016, and I'm not sure if I saw a single thru-hiker other
>> than myself use an alcohol stove (except one who got rid of it in the
>> first 200 miles).  Hiker boxes almost never had alcohol.  Some
>> hikers regarded my alcohol stove as an exotic (but silly) device.
>> Most hikers I ate with either used a canister stove, an integrated
>> canister stove (e.g. JetBoil), or no stove.
>> 
>> I switched to a canister stove around Walker Pass.  Guessing how much
>> fuel I needed was a pain, wasting fuel when I guessed too high was a
>> pain, repriming when I guessed too low was a pain, having no control
>> over the heat was a pain, it cooked more slowly, I needed to worry
>> about wind a lot, and it didn't have a shutoff valve.  The canister
>> stove I used had none of those problems, and was less than 1oz, so the
>> weight difference was negligible.  Fuel was lighter per BTU, too.
>> 
>> Eventually, I switched to no stove.  Waiting to eat when it's cold
>> out is no fun, and cleaning cookware when it's cold out is really no
>> fun.  I found that even with a canister stove, cooking/eating/washing
>> added almost an hour to making camp.
>> 
>> So, I think we'll see a disappearance of alcohol stoves, not because
>> of fire danger, but because modern canister stoves (or no-stove
>> techniques) outpaced them.
>> 
>> -=Town Food
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Drew Smith" <jdrewsmith at gmail.com>
>> To:
>> Cc:"pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Sent:Wed, 03 May 2017 14:24:20 +0000
>> Subject:Re: [pct-l] Fires
>> 
>> [cut]
>> What is the baseline prevalence of alcohol stoves vs other stoves? If
>> alcohol stoves are used by 30% of hikers but cause 20% of fires, then
>> the
>> logical conclusion is that alcohol stoves are safer than other
>> stoves.
>> [cut]
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Thu May  4 07:03:08 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:03:08 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB0246428CD80668A198D64F23C8EA0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac061b7260c51d07b00110b5173e6234c3e37e9f@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>,
 <CAMxQpswS_K3tfRJaKuSB8iVsWp-z2i7TSYFPBK-DXnLgzEZiDA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <BY2PR20MB0246428CD80668A198D64F23C8EA0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246A7EF7B54E707FB28C7AEC8EA0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

See California Chaperal.com 
M

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 4, 2017, at 4:36 AM, marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> This model in Southern California concerning chaparral does not apply. The research indicates that fires are counter productive
> Marmot
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 3, 2017, at 6:26 PM, James Vesely <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> We might be losing sight of the fire through the trees.
>> 
>> Fire has  always been a part of a healthy forest and as we all know the
>> suppression of forest fires caused the predicament we are now in. Native
>> American Indians created fires to keep the land and Meadows clear and
>> naturally started forest fires such as lightning strikes self regulated the
>> build-up of combustible materials and the kept the tree density low.  The
>> current situation is not sustainable and sooner or later there will be
>> large canopy fires  whether started by man or not that burn so hot  they
>> cannot be extinguished.  Sure, walking through a burnt-out forest is not
>> picturesque but it is more natural than most of us know.  We need to see
>> fire as nature's way of balancing the ecosystem.
>> 
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>>> On May 3, 2017 2:12 PM, <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think alcohol stoves are much, much lower than 30% these days.  My
>>> hike was 2016, and I'm not sure if I saw a single thru-hiker other
>>> than myself use an alcohol stove (except one who got rid of it in the
>>> first 200 miles).  Hiker boxes almost never had alcohol.  Some
>>> hikers regarded my alcohol stove as an exotic (but silly) device.
>>> Most hikers I ate with either used a canister stove, an integrated
>>> canister stove (e.g. JetBoil), or no stove.
>>> 
>>> I switched to a canister stove around Walker Pass.  Guessing how much
>>> fuel I needed was a pain, wasting fuel when I guessed too high was a
>>> pain, repriming when I guessed too low was a pain, having no control
>>> over the heat was a pain, it cooked more slowly, I needed to worry
>>> about wind a lot, and it didn't have a shutoff valve.  The canister
>>> stove I used had none of those problems, and was less than 1oz, so the
>>> weight difference was negligible.  Fuel was lighter per BTU, too.
>>> 
>>> Eventually, I switched to no stove.  Waiting to eat when it's cold
>>> out is no fun, and cleaning cookware when it's cold out is really no
>>> fun.  I found that even with a canister stove, cooking/eating/washing
>>> added almost an hour to making camp.
>>> 
>>> So, I think we'll see a disappearance of alcohol stoves, not because
>>> of fire danger, but because modern canister stoves (or no-stove
>>> techniques) outpaced them.
>>> 
>>> -=Town Food
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Drew Smith" <jdrewsmith at gmail.com>
>>> To:
>>> Cc:"pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>>> Sent:Wed, 03 May 2017 14:24:20 +0000
>>> Subject:Re: [pct-l] Fires
>>> 
>>> [cut]
>>> What is the baseline prevalence of alcohol stoves vs other stoves? If
>>> alcohol stoves are used by 30% of hikers but cause 20% of fires, then
>>> the
>>> logical conclusion is that alcohol stoves are safer than other
>>> stoves.
>>> [cut]
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Thu May  4 09:47:27 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 14:47:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
References: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862@mail.yahoo.com>

On Wed, 5/3/17, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fires
 To: 
 Cc: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 7:24 AM
 
 No question that there have been
 many fires in CA over the last decade. But
 before sending down commandments from on high,
 how about a little data to
 inform the
 conversation?
 
 How many
 fires have been attributed to backpackers? To long-distance
 hikers?
--------------------------------------------

http://www.postholer.com/faq.php#Fire%20safety
 "It's a sad reality that more than a couple major fires have been started by careless thru-hikers over the years. The importance of fire safety cannot be over stressed. A few notable fires:

    2008 - Apache Peak fire started by thru-hiker who extinguished cigarette butt on stump.
    2006 - Mission Creek fire started by poorly located alcohol stove in windy conditions.
    1997 - Angeles National Forest fire caused by hiker burning used toilet paper."

You know, we all like to complain about mountain bikers and dirt bikers using the PCT. We go on and on about how they should respect the rules. Well maybe we should respect the rules, too. In Southern California that means no campfires outside of developed campgrounds.

Gary
 
 .

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  4 10:48:42 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 08:48:42 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jHgM7a6O_DA8XxAu7oRVLjvZUmX1EKwYf4Mx4TDsCOqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Town Food,

I'm glad you chimed in on additional accommodations available at Trout
Lake. You are right in that not everyone that hikes wants to live like
Spartacus 24/7.

Disclosure: It turns out that I'm not thru hiker material... but thru
camper material, with a "minor" in zeros. It was time to come out of the
closet and liberate my true inner self. ;0)

Your affectionate recollections jogged my memory and the monastery popped
up as being another place to stay besides the grocery store in Trout Lake.
FWIW- I would not want to stay at the store when the herd is present, due
to the limited space and choices available.

For anyone that's interested, here's a link to a small list of
possibilities for over-nighting' in TL.

http://troutlakewashington.com/lodging/

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  4 11:54:24 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 09:54:24 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iDOdR-Q=SUHHOxOMayNw5ynRFBbL4oYo6KA4VFbZtuFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Town Food,

I meant to address the routes I used to reach Trout Lake, but left them out
of my reply to you, so here they are for reference.

On my initial venture into town, I was SOBO. The first road "north" that I
crossed was NF 23, and was paved all the way into TL. It becomes Mt. Adams
Rd. near town.

My second trip to town was unplanned. I had left a pocket knife impaled in
a log that I sat on, to fix a foot issue. Once in camp, I realized my
mistake, and had to double back 5 miles to retrieve the knife. I was glad I
did, because I also discovered that my camp sandals were left behind in a
completely different location, yet thankfully, somewhat nearby.

It was pouring down rain, and the trail happened to cross a road that would
take me back to TL, so the decision to revisit TL was made all the easier
by my mistake and the inclement weather. This road's surface was dirt,
designated NF 60, otherwise known as Carson Guler Rd., which eventually
becomes 141. NOBO hikers would encounter this road first, on their way
around TL, but more than likely would elect to continue hiking north until
reaching the paved road (NF 23) in hopes of finding more traffic. There is
a trail-head here with limited parking, several campsites with a pit toilet
and a few picnic tables.

This is the "southern" route that I spoke of in my previous post.

There is a third way into TL, as another paved road marked NF 24, and named
Twin Buttes Rd., crosses the PCT further north. NF 24 eventually tees into
the Carson Guler Rd., a bit before CG turns into 141.

Halfmile only mentions the "northern" road (NF 23) on his maps as a route
into TL.

Paint.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Thu May  4 13:52:03 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 11:52:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB0246428CD80668A198D64F23C8EA0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAFiWH3ixQGALenukLwsn952D3tNFAxt7v89NcvF9wbQ96P7s_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <ac061b7260c51d07b00110b5173e6234c3e37e9f@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>
 <CAMxQpswS_K3tfRJaKuSB8iVsWp-z2i7TSYFPBK-DXnLgzEZiDA@mail.gmail.com>
 <BY2PR20MB0246428CD80668A198D64F23C8EA0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzkqj02Tute-T=LZng0SUx9-P38MyXpQN2nP8NjKVTGYTQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 4:36 AM, marmot marmot
<marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> wrote:
> This model in Southern California concerning chaparral does not apply. The research indicates that fires are counter productive

It is a little more complicated than that, even the reference that you
gave says that.
http://www.californiachaparral.com/fire/firenature.html

"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple,
and wrong."
H. L. Mencken

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Thu May  4 14:01:04 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (pctl at marcusschwartz.com)
Date: Thu, 04 May 2017 12:01:04 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jHgM7a6O_DA8XxAu7oRVLjvZUmX1EKwYf4Mx4TDsCOqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1e21b142a5dffa72f1809dfaf855474164256737@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>

If I recall, I decided against the monastery because:

1. It's a few miles out of town, and not near a resupply store.? So,
I'd need to hitch a couple times (or road walk for a while) to do my
resupply.? The B&B is right near the town center (such as it is).?
(The grocery store *is* the town center).
2. It's not that cheap, yet the rooms looked pretty basic.

?-=Town Food

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paint YW" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
To:"pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Cc:
Sent:Thu, 4 May 2017 08:48:42 -0700
Subject:[pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions

 Town Food,

 I'm glad you chimed in on additional accommodations available at
Trout
 Lake. You are right in that not everyone that hikes wants to live
like
 Spartacus 24/7.

 Disclosure: It turns out that I'm not thru hiker material... but thru
 camper material, with a "minor" in zeros. It was time to come out of
the
 closet and liberate my true inner self. ;0)

 Your affectionate recollections jogged my memory and the monastery
popped
 up as being another place to stay besides the grocery store in Trout
Lake.
 FWIW- I would not want to stay at the store when the herd is present,
due
 to the limited space and choices available.

 For anyone that's interested, here's a link to a small list of
 possibilities for over-nighting' in TL.

 http://troutlakewashington.com/lodging/

 Paint
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
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 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  4 14:24:51 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:24:51 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gyAtEJu5g8Z=mJ6QA7yEhOu8mjxQVMA8F2PaCi-si+pw@mail.gmail.com>

Going down a different rabbit hole...

Due to just about every single tree being dead, in various and multiplying
swaths of forest, where the infamous bark beetle has killed them off, one
can expect a number of unstoppable conflagrations.

I'll have more cheerful news tomorrow.

Paint

Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not
hesitate, should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.
~Robert Brault

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  4 14:53:32 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 12:53:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] 1,374 PCT Thru Permits Issued for May, 2017
Message-ID: <CALu=H=giMf5onQzvxGNKq0om6npDAJmgAqo2v6tQq1r16-rrBA@mail.gmail.com>

The PCTA Police Department issued 1,374 permits (so far) for the merry
month of May.

Business is good. ;0)

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  4 15:15:43 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 13:15:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] San Felipe Hills camping vs Scissors Crossing Bridge camping
Message-ID: <CALu=H=hkapwZU5t8R_Mvt3bvLRGeGioPgqk4i_owc6bQnmtu7Q@mail.gmail.com>

My amigo- Evil Goat, has been out and about, hiking north and south of his
home and getting a good feel for the tempo and vibe of this year's hiking
class. He mentioned the fact that many more people were camping under the
Scissors Crossing Bridge, than he had seen in past seasons.

For anyone contemplating this endeavor, may I suggest hiking NOBO up into
the San Felipe Hills a mere mile or two, and discovering the awesome draws
or mini canyons that are up-slope and which intersect the trail. Halfmile
has a couple of these areas plotted for campsites, but not nearly all of
them.

These hidden gems have some of the most beautiful, clean, near perfectly
flat sand floors, that expand as they gradually ascend into the hills.
Unexpectedly, some of them have branches or tributaries that can hold a few
tents each as well.

The con is that it is dry camping. So what- bring some water to tide you
over for the night.

IMHO, hands down, it beats a night under the bridge.

Paint

Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not
hesitate, should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.
~Robert Brault

From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Thu May  4 16:40:59 2017
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 14:40:59 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] San Felipe Hills camping vs Scissors Crossing Bridge
 camping
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=hkapwZU5t8R_Mvt3bvLRGeGioPgqk4i_owc6bQnmtu7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=hkapwZU5t8R_Mvt3bvLRGeGioPgqk4i_owc6bQnmtu7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DADEB776-C384-4BE6-81D8-5215ECD14C1F@gmail.com>

Agreeded, we found one of the flat spots and loved it. Great views, no bugs and secluded.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 4, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:

My amigo- Evil Goat, has been out and about, hiking north and south of his
home and getting a good feel for the tempo and vibe of this year's hiking
class. He mentioned the fact that many more people were camping under the
Scissors Crossing Bridge, than he had seen in past seasons.

For anyone contemplating this endeavor, may I suggest hiking NOBO up into
the San Felipe Hills a mere mile or two, and discovering the awesome draws
or mini canyons that are up-slope and which intersect the trail. Halfmile
has a couple of these areas plotted for campsites, but not nearly all of
them.

These hidden gems have some of the most beautiful, clean, near perfectly
flat sand floors, that expand as they gradually ascend into the hills.
Unexpectedly, some of them have branches or tributaries that can hold a few
tents each as well.

The con is that it is dry camping. So what- bring some water to tide you
over for the night.

IMHO, hands down, it beats a night under the bridge.

Paint

Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not
hesitate, should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.
~Robert Brault
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gar1138 at yahoo.com  Thu May  4 20:13:43 2017
From: gar1138 at yahoo.com (Garrett Turner)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 18:13:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
In-Reply-To: <1900840429.658134.1493744179326@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1900840429.658134.1493744179326.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1900840429.658134.1493744179326@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <310DBF0B-FD52-4C75-BB41-464DE723F887@yahoo.com>

Thanks for all the great info!  My plan is to either try to get a room at the general store or camp close by.  Everyone always speaks highly about Trout Lake, I can't wait!

Since I will likely get to road 23 on mid-week of very early August, I am concerned about trying to find a timely ride into Trout Lake.  Sounds like something usually materializes.  I have also started reaching out to the trail angels listed on the Trout Lake webpage.

Thanks again!

Garrett

> On May 2, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Garrett <gar1138 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello, long time reader, first time poster. :-)  I completed the Oregon PCT in sections over the last two summers.  This summer (2017) I plan to hike from Cascade Locks to Snoqualmie Pass in roughly the first two weeks of August.  After researching a bunch, I have a few quick questions:
> 
> 1.  Any thoughts on snow or mosquitos?  I'm hoping that the heavy winter snow this year won't be much of an issue then.
> 
> 2.  I will be resupplying and spending a night in Trout Lake (I hear nothing but good things about Trout Lake).  How difficult is it to hitch a ride into town from the trail (and back the next day)?  Most accounts say it is fairly easy, but having never hitch-hiked before it does give me slight pause.
> 
> 3.  Are there any difficult stream crossings or fords that I will need to be aware of?
> 
> Much appreciated, thanks.
> 
> Garrett

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  4 21:54:52 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 19:54:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Washington PCT Questions
Message-ID: <CALu=H=if=kFvc5ookMvfsOUi2YQVZ5WAFUARki_O675oH05TMg@mail.gmail.com>

No worries Garrett,

Trout Lake lies at the foot of Mt. Adams, so there's bound to be lots of
people out and about, that time of year, so- getting a ride into TL
shouldn't be much of a problem.

I've been wanting to cheer heartily for the Trout Lake Grocery Store, for
some time now, so your inquisitive post was timely and welcome.

Thanks,

Paint.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Fri May  5 06:27:41 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 11:27:41 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] San Felipe Hills camping vs Scissors Crossing Bridge
 camping
In-Reply-To: <DADEB776-C384-4BE6-81D8-5215ECD14C1F@gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=hkapwZU5t8R_Mvt3bvLRGeGioPgqk4i_owc6bQnmtu7Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <DADEB776-C384-4BE6-81D8-5215ECD14C1F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj12VM_AQMDu+7ENEqOo8nTtC3XtiRmZWGfc_oUNjV9WrkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Some of the loveliest spots in the desert. Agreed, and far superior to the
wash under the bridge.

Thanks for all the updated info Paint YW!

Shroomer


On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 12:41 AM Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreeded, we found one of the flat spots and loved it. Great views, no
> bugs and secluded.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 4, 2017, at 1:15 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> My amigo- Evil Goat, has been out and about, hiking north and south of his
> home and getting a good feel for the tempo and vibe of this year's hiking
> class. He mentioned the fact that many more people were camping under the
> Scissors Crossing Bridge, than he had seen in past seasons.
>
> For anyone contemplating this endeavor, may I suggest hiking NOBO up into
> the San Felipe Hills a mere mile or two, and discovering the awesome draws
> or mini canyons that are up-slope and which intersect the trail. Halfmile
> has a couple of these areas plotted for campsites, but not nearly all of
> them.
>
> These hidden gems have some of the most beautiful, clean, near perfectly
> flat sand floors, that expand as they gradually ascend into the hills.
> Unexpectedly, some of them have branches or tributaries that can hold a few
> tents each as well.
>
> The con is that it is dry camping. So what- bring some water to tide you
> over for the night.
>
> IMHO, hands down, it beats a night under the bridge.
>
> Paint
>
> Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not
> hesitate, should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.
> ~Robert Brault
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
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>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Fri May  5 17:12:36 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 15:12:36 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] FW: Trail Conditions in Section G
Message-ID: <000001d2c5ec$b4905fc0$1db11f40$@verizon.net>

I just completed a little 30 mile section hike from Walker Pass Campground
to Chimney Creek.  I sent a water report to the PCT Water Report, so you can
see that as soon as they update.  From Walker Pass to mile 669.4 the trail
is in good condition.  A trail crew has been through there and cleared all
of the downed trees.  From mile 669.4 (which is the second crossing of
Spanish Needle Creek) to mile 680.8 (Chimney Creek) there are over 100 trees
across the trail.  Most are not small enough to just step over.  Most
require you to climb uphill or downhill to go around them.  This really
slowed me down.  I usually hike at about 2.5 miles per hour, but through
this 11.4 mile section I only made 1.75 miles per hour.  So if you go
through this section before the trail crew gets back in there, be prepared
to take longer than normal to hike this stretch.  In my opinion a horse
would be unable to get through this section.

 

I-Beam


From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sat May  6 15:02:28 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:02:28 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <89812082.2886992.1493909247862@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cf4b8df3-b24c-430b-8642-db569ebf5938@marcusschwartz.com>

This thread reminds me, there was a trail rumor last year that the
Chimney Fire was caused by thru-hikers -- does anybody know if that
turned out to be true, and what they were doing that started the fire?

 -=Marcus

On 05/04/2017 07:47 AM, Gary Schenk wrote:
> On Wed, 5/3/17, Drew Smith <jdrewsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fires
>  To: 
>  Cc: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>  Date: Wednesday, May 3, 2017, 7:24 AM
>  
>  No question that there have been
>  many fires in CA over the last decade. But
>  before sending down commandments from on high,
>  how about a little data to
>  inform the
>  conversation?
>  
>  How many
>  fires have been attributed to backpackers? To long-distance
>  hikers?
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> http://www.postholer.com/faq.php#Fire%20safety
>  "It's a sad reality that more than a couple major fires have been started by careless thru-hikers over the years. The importance of fire safety cannot be over stressed. A few notable fires:
> 
>     2008 - Apache Peak fire started by thru-hiker who extinguished cigarette butt on stump.
>     2006 - Mission Creek fire started by poorly located alcohol stove in windy conditions.
>     1997 - Angeles National Forest fire caused by hiker burning used toilet paper."
> 
> You know, we all like to complain about mountain bikers and dirt bikers using the PCT. We go on and on about how they should respect the rules. Well maybe we should respect the rules, too. In Southern California that means no campfires outside of developed campgrounds.
> 
> Gary
>  
>  .
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat May  6 15:24:41 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:24:41 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <cf4b8df3-b24c-430b-8642-db569ebf5938@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <89812082.2886992.1493909247862@mail.yahoo.com>
 <cf4b8df3-b24c-430b-8642-db569ebf5938@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzn5Ade0h34p1EPkkg2gadpYximhGEDWtmutCKvHv+sLTg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> This thread reminds me, there was a trail rumor last year that the
> Chimney Fire was caused by thru-hikers --

The Chimney Fire was near Lake Nacimiento (Near Paso Robles) very far
from the PCT

It was caused by a vehicle
http://www.ksby.com/story/35027734/investigators-identify-cause-of-chimney-fire

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Sat May  6 15:35:40 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 13:35:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nzn5Ade0h34p1EPkkg2gadpYximhGEDWtmutCKvHv+sLTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <89812082.2886992.1493909247862@mail.yahoo.com>
 <cf4b8df3-b24c-430b-8642-db569ebf5938@marcusschwartz.com>
 <CALV1Nzn5Ade0h34p1EPkkg2gadpYximhGEDWtmutCKvHv+sLTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NznucRjgtkXcMUu2uxkVNk3-HXo3RcgaqBG18nBaxs1KWw@mail.gmail.com>

My bad: Two fires with the same name.

I haven't been able to find anything beyond "human caused"



On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
> On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
>> This thread reminds me, there was a trail rumor last year that the
>> Chimney Fire was caused by thru-hikers --
>
> The Chimney Fire was near Lake Nacimiento (Near Paso Robles) very far
> from the PCT
>
> It was caused by a vehicle
> http://www.ksby.com/story/35027734/investigators-identify-cause-of-chimney-fire

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Sat May  6 15:50:58 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 20:50:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
In-Reply-To: <CALV1NznucRjgtkXcMUu2uxkVNk3-HXo3RcgaqBG18nBaxs1KWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <89812082.2886992.1493909247862.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <89812082.2886992.1493909247862@mail.yahoo.com>
 <cf4b8df3-b24c-430b-8642-db569ebf5938@marcusschwartz.com>
 <CALV1Nzn5Ade0h34p1EPkkg2gadpYximhGEDWtmutCKvHv+sLTg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALV1NznucRjgtkXcMUu2uxkVNk3-HXo3RcgaqBG18nBaxs1KWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <799097651.23165836.1494103858535.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

Actually, there have 3 Chimney Fires. One of the worst fires in the history of the Smokies (GSMNP) occurred in Nov, 2016. Here's an excerpt from a news story. 

"The two teen suspects , boys ages 15 and 17, were charged with aggravated arson on Dec. 7, about two weeks after a fire in Great Smoky Mountain National Park spread to the neighboring communities, killing 14 people, destroying more than 2,000 homes and businesses and forcing the evacuation of as many as 14,000 visitors and residents." 

The fire was started in the Chimneys area of the park on the TN side, near US 441, the only east-west vehicle route through the park. The fire stayed small for a few days but exploded into Gatlinburg when hurricane-force winds arose. 

Mango 

From: "Brick Robbins" <brick at brickrobbins.com> 
To: "Town Food" <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> 
Cc: "PCT" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2017 4:35:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fires 

My bad: Two fires with the same name. 

I haven't been able to find anything beyond "human caused" 



On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:24 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote: 
> On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote: 
>> This thread reminds me, there was a trail rumor last year that the 
>> Chimney Fire was caused by thru-hikers -- 
> 
> The Chimney Fire was near Lake Nacimiento (Near Paso Robles) very far 
> from the PCT 
> 
> It was caused by a vehicle 
> http://www.ksby.com/story/35027734/investigators-identify-cause-of-chimney-fire 
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 


From pctl at oakapple.net  Sun May  7 17:55:51 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 15:55:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
Message-ID: <201705072255.v47MtpOW027098@server-f.oakapple.net>


The water report shows Golden Oak Spring in good shape this week,
and no complaints about trail conditions, and the weather report
indicates a rather cool week ahead.    So the timing looks propitious
to cover the piece from Jawbone Canyon Road to Tehachapi Pass soon.
In 2004 it took me two days but in my old age I'm allowing three
and planning to carry more water for two dry camps.    I don't know
if Golden Oak Spring is the most critical natural water on the whole PCT, but
it's right up there near the top of the list.    I hope some 
superbloom is still going on around the 6000' level.

As usual for section
and day hikers the car shuttle is the hardest part of the puzzle.
Last year Jawbone Canyon Road was impassible south of Robin
Bird Spring so I will come at it from the north again.    
At the other end, I'm thinking parking the other car at the PCT 
trailhead a mile south of Tehachapi Pass might be a better bet than
in the large clearing near the freeway next to the railroad. 

At least I don't have to climb over the 100 trees currently down
north of Spanish Needles.  I had that pleasure last year.   The Gorillas were
clearing them though even as I went through.
I hope they've already been through Golden Oak Spring this spring.

I'm signed up to redo Northern Yosemite around Labor Day this year.
Hopefully it will be a walk in the park by then, instead of a slide or swim
over the park as it would be now.     The biggest irreducible problem on
the PCT is Glacier Peak - I will try to reduce that one on Labor Day next year,
hoping the coming winter snow will be less bountiful.    I can't see how to do
it in less than 74 miles - the intermediate access trails and bridges 
apparently have never been rebuilt after the flood.    But that's why they
call it a wilderness.

David Hough
http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/resources.html

From jimbravo2 at gmail.com  Sun May  7 20:02:26 2017
From: jimbravo2 at gmail.com (Jim Bravo)
Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 18:02:26 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
Message-ID: <CACMJFrD2Z3CK_DWNZZg91-hYb0Pc53mSA1J+OGuxa2XyZ-y4Sw@mail.gmail.com>

David:

The North access to Jawbone Canyon Road is via Piute Mountain Road, as you
know, which is closed at Sorrell Peak. The winter took a heavy toll on
those sandy road soils. Major damage. Kern County road maintenance is
currently grading the mountain from East to West, according to their
manager, with no set opening date. Here's a link to the Kern Co. website
showing road closures:

http://roads.kerndsa.com/road-status-closures

I'll be finishing Section F up there pretty soon, myself, so don't drink
all the water at Golden Oak! May see you on trail. Good luck with your
upcoming hikes, and be safe out there!

Jim

From reddirt23 at att.net  Tue May  2 09:02:27 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 07:02:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Southern Sierra Airlift ? /
 CHP-Coastal-Division-Airlift-Operations
Message-ID: <82B18942-9B5A-4B5D-96ED-1EE71FD50058@att.net>

Thanks,  I did get hold of the hiker in question who made it to Forrester Pass and bailed home to take a break while the snow melts.  
It was rumored at Kennedy that he was involved with a couple trail friends who we also fed at Chimney campground.  Same kids were rumored to have left the trail and gone on to Sierra City.  Neither seem to be true.

From reddirt23 at att.net  Mon May  8 09:01:12 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 07:01:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <BD4D7DFF-F374-4B58-B563-8EA153DA2BD1@att.net>

Rumor has it the Chimney Peak fire was started out of camp #9 by a hiker having a big fire that got away.  The local fire chief said yes when I asked him that it appears the fire was started in this way. I have been to camp 9 many times now and it does appear that the fire there could have blown right out of there.  I did not push the issue if it were a thru hiker or not.   

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon May  8 09:53:33 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 14:53:33 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Storm
References: <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610@mail.yahoo.com>

Wow, that was something. It was 43 degrees this morning in Sierra Madre, Calif. which is at 900 feet, and snow on Monrovia Peak which is just a bit over 5000. From the office I can see plenty of new snow on the high San Gabriels.  I hope nobody shipped their ran gear to Kennedy Meadows.

Gary

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon May  8 13:05:46 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 11:05:46 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Storm
In-Reply-To: <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nz=Ak=KSyFaBqBAw7MmTJDpFRY1W49OiGfGBrqujHHidyA@mail.gmail.com>

The cameras show Snow on Mt Laguna....
and one of the 4 views is still iced over at 11am

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Wow, that was something. It was 43 degrees this morning in Sierra Madre, Calif. which is at 900 feet, and snow on Monrovia Peak which is just a bit over 5000. From the office I can see plenty of new snow on the high San Gabriels.  I hope nobody shipped their ran gear to Kennedy Meadows.
>
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Mon May  8 12:37:35 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:37:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow / Glacier Peak
References: <1480556691.522686.1494265055495.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1480556691.522686.1494265055495@mail.yahoo.com>

David wrote:
The biggest irreducible problem on
the PCT is Glacier Peak - I will try to reduce that one on Labor Day next year,
hoping the coming winter snow will be less bountiful.    I can't see how to do
it in less than 74 miles - the intermediate access trails and bridges 
apparently have never been rebuilt after the flood.    But that's why they
call it a wilderness.Reply:
Which parts of Glacier Peak do you think require 74 miles?? As a side note, for general hiking up there, you don't want to do Glacier until well into July in a typical snow year, with August or even early September being better choices.

It's only 40 PCT miles, give or take, from the North Fork Sauk trail junction to the Suiattle River Trail Junction - this encompasses going on and over Glacier Peak proper (Kennedy Creek, Fire Creek Pass, Milk Creek, Vista Ridge, etc) .? Each of these two access trails is 7-8 miles, so you're looking at about 55 miles trail head to trail head to "do" Glacier Peak.? 

>From the Suiattle to Stehekin, including the access trail, it's about 40 miles, TH to bus pick up.? This is a very pleasant 4 day / 3 night hike in late August / early September (just did this last year).? This "gets" the north part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness and crossing over Suiattle Pass, the valley of Agnes Creek.

>From Stevens Pass to the N. Fork Sauk junction is about 35.5 miles.? Add 8 more to head out the Sauk and you're looking at about 43.5 miles TH to TH.? This will bag the south part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness, plus 








From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon May  8 15:58:57 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 13:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Glacier Peak
Message-ID: <201705082058.v48Kwv80024526@server-f.oakapple.net>

> Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:37:35 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>

> Which parts of Glacier Peak do you think require 74 miles??? As a side note, for general hiking up there, you don't want to do Glacier until well into July in a typical snow year, with August or even early September being better choices.
> 
> It's only 40 PCT miles, give or take, from the North Fork Sauk trail junction to the Suiattle River Trail Junction - this encompasses going on and over Glacier Peak proper (Kennedy Creek, Fire Creek Pass, Milk Creek, Vista Ridge, etc) .?? Each of these two access trails is 7-8 miles, so you're looking at about 55 miles trail head to trail head to "do" Glacier Peak.?? 
> 
> From the Suiattle to Stehekin, including the access trail, it's about 40 miles, TH to bus pick up.?? This is a very pleasant 4 day / 3 night hike in late August / early September (just did this last year).?? This "gets" the north part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness and crossing over Suiattle Pass, the valley of Agnes Creek.
> 
> From Stevens Pass to the N. Fork Sauk junction is about 35.5 miles.?? Add 8 more to head out the Sauk and you're looking at about 43.5 miles TH to TH.?? This will bag the south part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness, plus 

Thanks for the good ideas.

The Suiattle Trail 784 sounds like a winner, 7 flat miles to the PCT.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5150570

North Fork Sauk Trail 649, not so much at the moment - 8.4 miles and 3000'
but more to the point, the access road 49 is closed due to a slide, it looks
like about 7 miles from the trailhead.    Maybe this will get fixed by
August, if they can get to it faster than they repaired the PCT Suiattle
River Bridge.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5150593
Still, 55+7=62 miles is better than 74.

My original plan featured east side trailheads (they came out better in 2003
than the west side) and a night in Holden. 

I'll update my web page accordingly.    Anybody else interested in the
problems of hikers intermediate between whole section hikers and dayhikers
is welcome to suggest improvements to the web page.

David Hough
http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/backpacks.html

From jroth2353 at gmail.com  Mon May  8 16:29:08 2017
From: jroth2353 at gmail.com (Joe Roth)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 14:29:08 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
In-Reply-To: <CACMJFrD2Z3CK_DWNZZg91-hYb0Pc53mSA1J+OGuxa2XyZ-y4Sw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACMJFrD2Z3CK_DWNZZg91-hYb0Pc53mSA1J+OGuxa2XyZ-y4Sw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC6B6931-FBCA-423A-B4A2-03A6C71DB7B0@gmail.com>

Last fall golden oak was a slow drip only. I corrected this by removing a dead snake which was partly blocking the filter and shaking the filter both located inside the concrete tank. Also saved 2 frogs which were trapped in the tank.
??

Sent from my iPhone

On May 7, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com> wrote:

David:

The North access to Jawbone Canyon Road is via Piute Mountain Road, as you
know, which is closed at Sorrell Peak. The winter took a heavy toll on
those sandy road soils. Major damage. Kern County road maintenance is
currently grading the mountain from East to West, according to their
manager, with no set opening date. Here's a link to the Kern Co. website
showing road closures:

http://roads.kerndsa.com/road-status-closures

I'll be finishing Section F up there pretty soon, myself, so don't drink
all the water at Golden Oak! May see you on trail. Good luck with your
upcoming hikes, and be safe out there!

Jim
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Mon May  8 17:26:30 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:26:30 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
In-Reply-To: <AC6B6931-FBCA-423A-B4A2-03A6C71DB7B0@gmail.com>
References: <CACMJFrD2Z3CK_DWNZZg91-hYb0Pc53mSA1J+OGuxa2XyZ-y4Sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <AC6B6931-FBCA-423A-B4A2-03A6C71DB7B0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2CCBBB16-3DF0-4BBD-AE88-EE1F571D1285@gmail.com>

Oh my. I can see I'm going to have to toughen up. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Last fall golden oak was a slow drip only. I corrected this by removing a dead snake which was partly blocking the filter and shaking the filter both located inside the concrete tank. Also saved 2 frogs which were trapped in the tank.
> ??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 7, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David:
> 
> The North access to Jawbone Canyon Road is via Piute Mountain Road, as you
> know, which is closed at Sorrell Peak. The winter took a heavy toll on
> those sandy road soils. Major damage. Kern County road maintenance is
> currently grading the mountain from East to West, according to their
> manager, with no set opening date. Here's a link to the Kern Co. website
> showing road closures:
> 
> http://roads.kerndsa.com/road-status-closures
> 
> I'll be finishing Section F up there pretty soon, myself, so don't drink
> all the water at Golden Oak! May see you on trail. Good luck with your
> upcoming hikes, and be safe out there!
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon May  8 18:22:26 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 23:22:26 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
In-Reply-To: <2CCBBB16-3DF0-4BBD-AE88-EE1F571D1285@gmail.com>
References: <CACMJFrD2Z3CK_DWNZZg91-hYb0Pc53mSA1J+OGuxa2XyZ-y4Sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <AC6B6931-FBCA-423A-B4A2-03A6C71DB7B0@gmail.com>
 <2CCBBB16-3DF0-4BBD-AE88-EE1F571D1285@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7223e1f24874411fa867a649d4fb4ceb@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

Ah, the joys of finding water in the desert! 

Years ago we were hiking a section of the Grand Enchantment Trail and were desperate for water. Trail notes suggested a general location, and we could smell it but not find it. Finally I said, "lets follow the cows." Sure enough, we found the biggest clot of cows and there in the middle was a dirty water hole. We chased them off and filled up. Filtered it AND treated it and it still tasted like the floor of a barn. But it kept us going and we did not get sick.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina Harrison
Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 3:27 PM
To: Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net; Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow

Oh my. I can see I'm going to have to toughen up. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Last fall golden oak was a slow drip only. I corrected this by removing a dead snake which was partly blocking the filter and shaking the filter both located inside the concrete tank. Also saved 2 frogs which were trapped in the tank.
> ??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 7, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> David:
> 
> The North access to Jawbone Canyon Road is via Piute Mountain Road, as 
> you know, which is closed at Sorrell Peak. The winter took a heavy 
> toll on those sandy road soils. Major damage. Kern County road 
> maintenance is currently grading the mountain from East to West, 
> according to their manager, with no set opening date. Here's a link to 
> the Kern Co. website showing road closures:
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__roads.kerndsa.com_
> road-2Dstatus-2Dclosures&d=DQIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_Cd
> pgnVfiiMM&r=ouoU-5bWB1hGSQsVF7qHade7G0U6SKCUqXI8nbm_amI&m=PQ9dY6YrPEPp
> u2vxQOJA8NRaCN4TWWsiXv3sjUZCF84&s=GYhzhsmFL-5QvB4mxAD5WZS41fMe2vwp2qeq
> -M3N-1E&e=
> 
> I'll be finishing Section F up there pretty soon, myself, so don't 
> drink all the water at Golden Oak! May see you on trail. Good luck 
> with your upcoming hikes, and be safe out there!
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon May  8 19:59:08 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
Message-ID: <201705090059.v490x8T7003359@server-f.oakapple.net>

You can see Golden Oak as it was in 2004 at

http://pcnst.oakapple.net/photo/sc-pct/f/2004-05-30-f04/

Robin Bird at

http://pcnst.oakapple.net/photo/sc-pct/f/2004-05-29-f06/

I was going southbound, as I will be this year.

From dale.mcduffie at gmail.com  Mon May  8 21:36:16 2017
From: dale.mcduffie at gmail.com (Dale McDuffie)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 19:36:16 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
In-Reply-To: <7223e1f24874411fa867a649d4fb4ceb@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <CACMJFrD2Z3CK_DWNZZg91-hYb0Pc53mSA1J+OGuxa2XyZ-y4Sw@mail.gmail.com>
 <AC6B6931-FBCA-423A-B4A2-03A6C71DB7B0@gmail.com>
 <2CCBBB16-3DF0-4BBD-AE88-EE1F571D1285@gmail.com>
 <7223e1f24874411fa867a649d4fb4ceb@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <83A50911-2A40-45D8-9AFC-C6633E2A5B23@gmail.com>

I was just there -- there is a plastic jug catching fresh water from the spring -- you just need to navigate the barbed wire to get to.  Refills in a few minutes.  Good clean water!

The tank houses at least 3 frogs and eggs/tadpoles pretty soon I'm guessing.

Dale

> On May 8, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:
> 
> Ah, the joys of finding water in the desert! 
> 
> Years ago we were hiking a section of the Grand Enchantment Trail and were desperate for water. Trail notes suggested a general location, and we could smell it but not find it. Finally I said, "lets follow the cows." Sure enough, we found the biggest clot of cows and there in the middle was a dirty water hole. We chased them off and filled up. Filtered it AND treated it and it still tasted like the floor of a barn. But it kept us going and we did not get sick.
> 
> Herb
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina Harrison
> Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 3:27 PM
> To: Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net; Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
> 
> Oh my. I can see I'm going to have to toughen up. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 8, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Joe Roth <jroth2353 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Last fall golden oak was a slow drip only. I corrected this by removing a dead snake which was partly blocking the filter and shaking the filter both located inside the concrete tank. Also saved 2 frogs which were trapped in the tank.
>> ??
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 7, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Jim Bravo <jimbravo2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> David:
>> 
>> The North access to Jawbone Canyon Road is via Piute Mountain Road, as 
>> you know, which is closed at Sorrell Peak. The winter took a heavy 
>> toll on those sandy road soils. Major damage. Kern County road 
>> maintenance is currently grading the mountain from East to West, 
>> according to their manager, with no set opening date. Here's a link to 
>> the Kern Co. website showing road closures:
>> 
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__roads.kerndsa.com_
>> road-2Dstatus-2Dclosures&d=DQIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_Cd
>> pgnVfiiMM&r=ouoU-5bWB1hGSQsVF7qHade7G0U6SKCUqXI8nbm_amI&m=PQ9dY6YrPEPp
>> u2vxQOJA8NRaCN4TWWsiXv3sjUZCF84&s=GYhzhsmFL-5QvB4mxAD5WZS41fMe2vwp2qeq
>> -M3N-1E&e=
>> 
>> I'll be finishing Section F up there pretty soon, myself, so don't 
>> drink all the water at Golden Oak! May see you on trail. Good luck 
>> with your upcoming hikes, and be safe out there!
>> 
>> Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
> List Archives:
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From veselyjames at gmail.com  Tue May  9 08:16:15 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 06:16:15 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Salt makes you less thirsty?
In-Reply-To: <CAMxQpszqVWCpYnXgtbp32s75bXx6F+S_uP434OLBOABsBeNGvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxQpszqVWCpYnXgtbp32s75bXx6F+S_uP434OLBOABsBeNGvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpszQwYaLPhOaw7f2Qxa8zypQ-f0MexSAqXNeZqfE-y8TNw@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting new evidence on slat intake levels and there affect on thirst
and weight loss.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/health/salt-health-effects.html?em_pos=large&emc=edit_sc_20170508&nl=science-times&nlid=69345975&ref=headline&te=1

From jdrewsmith at gmail.com  Tue May  9 09:24:45 2017
From: jdrewsmith at gmail.com (Drew Smith)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 14:24:45 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Salt makes you less thirsty?
In-Reply-To: <CAMxQpszQwYaLPhOaw7f2Qxa8zypQ-f0MexSAqXNeZqfE-y8TNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxQpszqVWCpYnXgtbp32s75bXx6F+S_uP434OLBOABsBeNGvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMxQpszQwYaLPhOaw7f2Qxa8zypQ-f0MexSAqXNeZqfE-y8TNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFiWH3jVECpGnux1phwpU3AVf7eFNt3z1CRLE82ENr3dsxw+1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, a good reminder that physiology and nutrition have long been the
red-headed stepchildren of biomedical research. We actually know remarkably
little about some very basic questions, including salt vs fluid intake.

Worth keeping in mind the next time an "expert" makes a proclamation about
how much water you need while hiking, or how you should be drinking
electrolyte drinks etc. Except at the extremes of dehydration or
hyponatremia, such advice is little more than hot air and faith in one's
own prejudices. Or a sales pitch.

Drew

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:16 AM James Vesely <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting new evidence on slat intake levels and there affect on thirst
> and weight loss.
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/08/health/salt-health-effects.html?em_pos=large&emc=edit_sc_20170508&nl=science-times&nlid=69345975&ref=headline&te=1
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Tue May  9 22:27:52 2017
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (sdscpcts)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 20:27:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
Message-ID: <rkikup3vl3g8bfwslvu63mb0.1494386872549@email.android.com>

Two years ago I camped in the campsite on the south side of Suiattle River bridge and had a mouse chew through the side of my tent to get to some food. The next night I camped just west of the creek that is west of the junction of the PCT and the Suiattle River Trail. There I hung my food, but the mice climbed the tree and descended the rope to attack my food.?
? ? ? Mataguay Connector?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net> Date: 5/8/17  1:58 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net, tokencivilian at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [pct-l] Glacier Peak 
> Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:37:35 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>

> Which parts of Glacier Peak do you think require 74 miles?? As a side note, for general hiking up there, you don't want to do Glacier until well into July in a typical snow year, with August or even early September being better choices.
> 
> It's only 40 PCT miles, give or take, from the North Fork Sauk trail junction to the Suiattle River Trail Junction - this encompasses going on and over Glacier Peak proper (Kennedy Creek, Fire Creek Pass, Milk Creek, Vista Ridge, etc) .? Each of these two access trails is 7-8 miles, so you're looking at about 55 miles trail head to trail head to "do" Glacier Peak.? 
> 
> From the Suiattle to Stehekin, including the access trail, it's about 40 miles, TH to bus pick up.? This is a very pleasant 4 day / 3 night hike in late August / early September (just did this last year).? This "gets" the north part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness and crossing over Suiattle Pass, the valley of Agnes Creek.
> 
> From Stevens Pass to the N. Fork Sauk junction is about 35.5 miles.? Add 8 more to head out the Sauk and you're looking at about 43.5 miles TH to TH.? This will bag the south part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness, plus 

Thanks for the good ideas.

The Suiattle Trail 784 sounds like a winner, 7 flat miles to the PCT.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5150570

North Fork Sauk Trail 649, not so much at the moment - 8.4 miles and 3000'
but more to the point, the access road 49 is closed due to a slide, it looks
like about 7 miles from the trailhead.??? Maybe this will get fixed by
August, if they can get to it faster than they repaired the PCT Suiattle
River Bridge.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5150593
Still, 55+7=62 miles is better than 74.

My original plan featured east side trailheads (they came out better in 2003
than the west side) and a night in Holden. 

I'll update my web page accordingly.??? Anybody else interested in the
problems of hikers intermediate between whole section hikers and dayhikers
is welcome to suggest improvements to the web page.

David Hough
http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/backpacks.html

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From veselyjames at gmail.com  Wed May 10 08:25:52 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 06:25:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Piute Pass May 1 snow levels
In-Reply-To: <CAMxQpsxr5AVLFnRKv3UNJmOXJ8rXS04n4fVkaWAekSRO8C90-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxQpsxr5AVLFnRKv3UNJmOXJ8rXS04n4fVkaWAekSRO8C90-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpsx0aE0Wh5KMgCuQ1L_8270Pe3TsVGZAgYs0zh_VrR23Hw@mail.gmail.com>

https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snowsurvey_sno/COURSES

Impressive.

From douglastow at gmail.com  Wed May 10 12:13:34 2017
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 10:13:34 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Lake Tahoe resupply
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOs7u=tnjnUfS4eYnjPv_-sRo+M_1mdo1FgR-fQGRq7_EA@mail.gmail.com>

Probably old news, but I was in South Lake Tahoe yesterday, and noticed
that Lake of the Sky Outfitters (at the "Y") was gone.  I looked into it,
and they have closed permanently.

I do not use Facebook, so if some kind person might put the word out there
as well, that would be appreciated...

Chipmunk

From mel at tungate.com  Wed May 10 12:18:11 2017
From: mel at tungate.com (Mel Tungate)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 10:18:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] South Lake Tahoe resupply
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqOOs7u=tnjnUfS4eYnjPv_-sRo+M_1mdo1FgR-fQGRq7_EA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOOqOOs7u=tnjnUfS4eYnjPv_-sRo+M_1mdo1FgR-fQGRq7_EA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D6EE05C2-31FD-4A4E-B383-97E3B709B7FA@tungate.com>

FB hikers et al were notified by the owners and others a few months ago.  

Mel

> On May 10, 2017, at 10:13 AM, Douglas Tow <douglastow at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Probably old news, but I was in South Lake Tahoe yesterday, and noticed
> that Lake of the Sky Outfitters (at the "Y") was gone.  I looked into it,
> and they have closed permanently.
> 
> I do not use Facebook, so if some kind person might put the word out there
> as well, that would be appreciated...
> 
> Chipmunk
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Wed May 10 12:42:53 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 17:42:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
References: <111221799.9228778.1494438173768.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <111221799.9228778.1494438173768@mail.yahoo.com>

Mice - the "Yosemite Bears" of Washington when it comes to stealing hiker food and ripping up tents.? 

Best get a "mouse canister" for the grub.? I can see an Glacier Peak Mouse Interagency Working Group (GPMIWG) in our future to certify the acceptable mouse canisters.? Please, think of the mice.? Problem mice will have to be destroyed if they get habituated to human food.

Tongue firmly in cheek on the above.? ;-)

But seriously, yes, mice are a pain in the neck in that area.? They'll chew through zip lock bags, stuff sacks and tents to get at the grub, especially if the food is directly against the netting or edge of a tent.? I've not had a problem with mice chewing their way in when "hanging" the food inside the tent.? I've personally never had a mouse get into a hung up food bag, but I use very fine cord in a poorly executed "bear bag" hang job (mouse bag?, LOL) and they may not have been able to climb down that.

      From: sdscpcts <sdscpcts at yahoo.com>
 To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>; pct-l at backcountry.net; tokencivilian at yahoo.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:27 PM
 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
  
Two years ago I camped in the campsite on the south side of Suiattle River bridge and had a mouse chew through the side of my tent to get to some food. The next night I camped just west of the creek that is west of the junction of the PCT and the Suiattle River Trail. There I hung my food, but the mice climbed the tree and descended the rope to attack my food.?
? ? ? Mataguay Connector?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net> Date: 5/8/17 1:58 PM (GMT-08:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net, tokencivilian at yahoo.com Subject: Re: [pct-l] Glacier Peak 
> Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:37:35 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>

> Which parts of Glacier Peak do you think require 74 miles?? As a side note, for general hiking up there, you don't want to do Glacier until well into July in a typical snow year, with August or even early September being better choices.
> 
> It's only 40 PCT miles, give or take, from the North Fork Sauk trail junction to the Suiattle River Trail Junction - this encompasses going on and over Glacier Peak proper (Kennedy Creek, Fire Creek Pass, Milk Creek, Vista Ridge, etc) .? Each of these two access trails is 7-8 miles, so you're looking at about 55 miles trail head to trail head to "do" Glacier Peak.? 
> 
> From the Suiattle to Stehekin, including the access trail, it's about 40 miles, TH to bus pick up.? This is a very pleasant 4 day / 3 night hike in late August / early September (just did this last year).? This "gets" the north part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness and crossing over Suiattle Pass, the valley of Agnes Creek.
> 
> From Stevens Pass to the N. Fork Sauk junction is about 35.5 miles.? Add 8 more to head out the Sauk and you're looking at about 43.5 miles TH to TH.? This will bag the south part of the Glacier Peak Wilderness, plus 

Thanks for the good ideas.

The Suiattle Trail 784 sounds like a winner, 7 flat miles to the PCT.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5150570

North Fork Sauk Trail 649, not so much at the moment - 8.4 miles and 3000'
but more to the point, the access road 49 is closed due to a slide, it looks
like about 7 miles from the trailhead.??? Maybe this will get fixed by
August, if they can get to it faster than they repaired the PCT Suiattle
River Bridge.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mbs/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5150593
Still, 55+7=62 miles is better than 74.

My original plan featured east side trailheads (they came out better in 2003
than the west side) and a night in Holden. 

I'll update my web page accordingly.??? Anybody else interested in the
problems of hikers intermediate between whole section hikers and dayhikers
is welcome to suggest improvements to the web page.

David Hough
http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/backpacks.html

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Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Wed May 10 15:55:39 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 13:55:39 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
In-Reply-To: <111221799.9228778.1494438173768@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <111221799.9228778.1494438173768.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <111221799.9228778.1494438173768@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_avy8kQhL-p4hRd-JJd2Q18mghkPWAf_JSVfA6cQxjUXuQ@mail.gmail.com>

I had a hole in the netting of my  tent. Since there were no mosquitoes I
didn't think it would be a problem but in the Northern Cascades, for a
week, every night, a mouse would climb up the netting, in through the hole
and then scamper around my tent searching for my food bag. The worst part
was how I found out about it. I always woke up because a mouse had walked
across my face. There is little as eerie as being asleep and feeling these
small feet on your face.  It got to be a regular thing. I'd turn on my
light find the mouse, open the tent and shoo it out. The mouse never
returned the rest of the night but it was uncanny how this same process
repeated each night I camped at a different site.

So, I'll buy one of those mouse canisters next time they are available.

 -Rover

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Mice - the "Yosemite Bears" of Washington when it comes to stealing hiker
> food and ripping up tents.
>
> Best get a "mouse canister" for the grub.  I can see an Glacier Peak Mouse
> Interagency Working Group (GPMIWG) in our future to certify the acceptable
> mouse canisters.  Please, think of the mice.  Problem mice will have to be
> destroyed if they get habituated to human food.
>
> Tongue firmly in cheek on the above.  ;-)
>
> But seriously, yes, mice are a pain in the neck in that area.  They'll
> chew through zip lock bags, stuff sacks and tents to get at the grub,
> especially if the food is directly against the netting or edge of a tent.
> I've not had a problem with mice chewing their way in when "hanging" the
> food inside the tent.  I've personally never had a mouse get into a hung up
> food bag, but I use very fine cord in a poorly executed "bear bag" hang job
> (mouse bag?, LOL) and they may not have been able to climb down that.
>
>       From: sdscpcts <sdscpcts at yahoo.com>
>  To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>; pct-l at backcountry.net;
> tokencivilian at yahoo.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:27 PM
>  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
>
> Two years ago I camped in the campsite on the south side of Suiattle River
> bridge and had a mouse chew through the side of my tent to get to some
> food. The next night I camped just west of the creek that is west of the
> junction of the PCT and the Suiattle River Trail. There I hung my food, but
> the mice climbed the tree and descended the rope to attack my food.
>       Mataguay Connector
>

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Wed May 10 16:54:11 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 21:54:11 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_avy8kQhL-p4hRd-JJd2Q18mghkPWAf_JSVfA6cQxjUXuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <111221799.9228778.1494438173768.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <111221799.9228778.1494438173768@mail.yahoo.com>,
 <CAH8m_avy8kQhL-p4hRd-JJd2Q18mghkPWAf_JSVfA6cQxjUXuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DF851DDE-1E9E-4F2E-AC70-99141579BDDF@sjmslaw.com>

My worst mouse experiences were on the Wonderland Trail. I crossed a bridge, put my pack down to get sunscreen, put the sunscreen on and then replaced my pack. In that amount of time a mouse had eaten a hole through the pocket of my lap belt and stolen my trail snacks.

I used my rain jacket for a pillow at night. Unfortunately, one night I forgot and left snacks in my pocket. Sure enough, mice ate a hole in the pocket while the jacket was under my head, once again stealing my trail snacks.

I continue to use the pack and jacket, holes and all, as a reminder to protect my food 24/7. 

Sent from my iPad

> On May 10, 2017, at 1:55 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I had a hole in the netting of my  tent. Since there were no mosquitoes I
> didn't think it would be a problem but in the Northern Cascades, for a
> week, every night, a mouse would climb up the netting, in through the hole
> and then scamper around my tent searching for my food bag. The worst part
> was how I found out about it. I always woke up because a mouse had walked
> across my face. There is little as eerie as being asleep and feeling these
> small feet on your face.  It got to be a regular thing. I'd turn on my
> light find the mouse, open the tent and shoo it out. The mouse never
> returned the rest of the night but it was uncanny how this same process
> repeated each night I camped at a different site.
> 
> So, I'll buy one of those mouse canisters next time they are available.
> 
> -Rover
> 
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Barry Teschlog <tokencivilian at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Mice - the "Yosemite Bears" of Washington when it comes to stealing hiker
>> food and ripping up tents.
>> 
>> Best get a "mouse canister" for the grub.  I can see an Glacier Peak Mouse
>> Interagency Working Group (GPMIWG) in our future to certify the acceptable
>> mouse canisters.  Please, think of the mice.  Problem mice will have to be
>> destroyed if they get habituated to human food.
>> 
>> Tongue firmly in cheek on the above.  ;-)
>> 
>> But seriously, yes, mice are a pain in the neck in that area.  They'll
>> chew through zip lock bags, stuff sacks and tents to get at the grub,
>> especially if the food is directly against the netting or edge of a tent.
>> I've not had a problem with mice chewing their way in when "hanging" the
>> food inside the tent.  I've personally never had a mouse get into a hung up
>> food bag, but I use very fine cord in a poorly executed "bear bag" hang job
>> (mouse bag?, LOL) and they may not have been able to climb down that.
>> 
>>      From: sdscpcts <sdscpcts at yahoo.com>
>> To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>; pct-l at backcountry.net;
>> tokencivilian at yahoo.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
>> 
>> Two years ago I camped in the campsite on the south side of Suiattle River
>> bridge and had a mouse chew through the side of my tent to get to some
>> food. The next night I camped just west of the creek that is west of the
>> junction of the PCT and the Suiattle River Trail. There I hung my food, but
>> the mice climbed the tree and descended the rope to attack my food.
>>      Mataguay Connector
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jenniferlzim at gmail.com  Thu May 11 13:13:47 2017
From: jenniferlzim at gmail.com (Jennifer Zimmerman)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 13:13:47 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
Message-ID: <CAC5z1v-2S2TrC70Bh8_rrV0xNhs2D3TpujUrsQGLJmhjEZ6gAw@mail.gmail.com>

Right on!  I've never had mouse encounters as bad as I had on the
Wonderland trail.  In one of the camps on the SE side, they managed to get
up a bear pole and chew into my hung food.

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:

> My worst mouse experiences were on the Wonderland Trail. I crossed a
> bridge, put my pack down to get sunscreen, put the sunscreen on and then
> replaced my pack. In that amount of time a mouse had eaten a hole through
> the pocket of my lap belt and stolen my trail snacks.
>
> I used my rain jacket for a pillow at night. Unfortunately, one night I
> forgot and left snacks in my pocket. Sure enough, mice ate a hole in the
> pocket while the jacket was under my head, once again stealing my trail
> snacks.
>
> I continue to use the pack and jacket, holes and all, as a reminder to
> protect my food 24/7.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On May 10, 2017, at 1:55 PM, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I had a hole in the netting of my  tent. Since there were no mosquitoes I
> > didn't think it would be a problem but in the Northern Cascades, for a
> > week, every night, a mouse would climb up the netting, in through the
> hole
> > and then scamper around my tent searching for my food bag. The worst part
> > was how I found out about it. I always woke up because a mouse had walked
> > across my face. There is little as eerie as being asleep and feeling
> these
> > small feet on your face.  It got to be a regular thing. I'd turn on my
> > light find the mouse, open the tent and shoo it out. The mouse never
> > returned the rest of the night but it was uncanny how this same process
> > repeated each night I camped at a different site.
> >
> > So, I'll buy one of those mouse canisters next time they are available.
> >
> > -Rover
> >
> > On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Barry Teschlog <
> tokencivilian at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Mice - the "Yosemite Bears" of Washington when it comes to stealing
> hiker
> >> food and ripping up tents.
> >>
> >> Best get a "mouse canister" for the grub.  I can see an Glacier Peak
> Mouse
> >> Interagency Working Group (GPMIWG) in our future to certify the
> acceptable
> >> mouse canisters.  Please, think of the mice.  Problem mice will have to
> be
> >> destroyed if they get habituated to human food.
> >>
> >> Tongue firmly in cheek on the above.  ;-)
> >>
> >> But seriously, yes, mice are a pain in the neck in that area.  They'll
> >> chew through zip lock bags, stuff sacks and tents to get at the grub,
> >> especially if the food is directly against the netting or edge of a
> tent.
> >> I've not had a problem with mice chewing their way in when "hanging" the
> >> food inside the tent.  I've personally never had a mouse get into a
> hung up
> >> food bag, but I use very fine cord in a poorly executed "bear bag" hang
> job
> >> (mouse bag?, LOL) and they may not have been able to climb down that.
> >>
> >>      From: sdscpcts <sdscpcts at yahoo.com>
> >> To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>;
> pct-l at backcountry.net;
> >> tokencivilian at yahoo.com
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:27 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Glacier Peak and mice
> >>
> >> Two years ago I camped in the campsite on the south side of Suiattle
> River
> >> bridge and had a mouse chew through the side of my tent to get to some
> >> food. The next night I camped just west of the creek that is west of the
> >> junction of the PCT and the Suiattle River Trail. There I hung my food,
> but
> >> the mice climbed the tree and descended the rope to attack my food.
> >>      Mataguay Connector
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Sat May 13 15:44:27 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2017 13:44:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Conditions in Section F
Message-ID: <001401d2cc29$b7601ae0$262050a0$@verizon.net>

I just got back from a little Section hike in Section F (May 11 and 12),
from where the trail crosses Kelso Valley road (mile 616) to Walker Pass
Campground (mile 651.3).  The trail is in pretty good shape.  Between Bird
Spring Pass (mile 630.9) and Walker Pass Campground there are about 15 trees
across the trail, but all of them are easy go arounds.  There was a guy on a
horse ahead of me and he said he had no problems going around the trees.

 

There is water in the little stream that crosses the trail at mile 643.45,
just before McIvers Spring.   At that point the trail is actually a road
walk.  If it is still flowing when you get there it can save you the off
trail walk to McIvers Cabin/spring.   There are large water caches at mile
616 and at Bird Spring Pass (mile 630.9).

 

For section hikers looking for access road information:  Kelso Valley Road
is paved all the way to where the trail crosses it at mile 616.  This is
about 20 miles from Highway 178.  There is a trail head there with parking
for a few vehicles.  Bird Spring Canyon Road (SC120) is a dirt road that
takes you up to Bird Spring Pass from the west side.  It is accessed from
paved Kelso Valley Road.   The 5.5 miles up to Bird Spring Pass is a little
rough, with deep sand in places.  My two wheel drive Colorado pickup made it
with no trouble.  I am not sure if a regular car would make it, but any
truck or SUV should be OK.  There is a trail head where the trail crosses
the road with enough parking for 7 or 8 vehicles.

 

I-Beam


From sesexton at gci.net  Sun May 14 09:30:46 2017
From: sesexton at gci.net (sesexton at gci.net)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 08:30:46 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
Message-ID: <6BB4E7E6-6CA4-46C1-A9FC-DC72ADD3BC91@gci.net>

My 2016 PCT NoBo was interrupted by hospitalization and subsequent treatment of blood clots in leg. I plan to complete the 1600 +\- miles between Sonora Pass and Canada in 2017. Snow reports for both ends of that stretch suggest late start for a continuous jaunt. Therefore, I am conceptualizing starting somewhere in-between where snow is absent for substantial length (400 miles, say). Mid-June would be approximate start date. Getting trail legs and training on CDT currently so I can restart PCT in 2017 in a fit and read condition. 

So, smart guys and or gals, what recommendations have you for earliest snow free sections between Sonora Pass and Canada??

Thanks. 

NTN

Sent from my iPhone

From geraldbking at gmail.com  Sun May 14 13:37:01 2017
From: geraldbking at gmail.com (geraldbking at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 11:37:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
In-Reply-To: <6BB4E7E6-6CA4-46C1-A9FC-DC72ADD3BC91@gci.net>
References: <6BB4E7E6-6CA4-46C1-A9FC-DC72ADD3BC91@gci.net>
Message-ID: <8579A481-C0DE-428A-8195-DEB7FAA81F8D@gmail.com>

Hi NTN,
I think I understand your goal, but this will be a tougher year to pull it off. I'll play your game and suggest you might be able to start in late June on Hwy 35, on the southern shoulder of Mt Hood (Barlow Pass) and head south. You'll encounter snow in Mt Jefferson and a few other central Oregon Cascade locations, but it should be doable all the way to Sonora Pass. Ideally waiting until early July would minimize your time on snow.
Jerry (Navigator)

> On May 14, 2017, at 7:30 AM, sesexton at gci.net wrote:
> 
> My 2016 PCT NoBo was interrupted by hospitalization and subsequent treatment of blood clots in leg. I plan to complete the 1600 +\- miles between Sonora Pass and Canada in 2017. Snow reports for both ends of that stretch suggest late start for a continuous jaunt. Therefore, I am conceptualizing starting somewhere in-between where snow is absent for substantial length (400 miles, say). Mid-June would be approximate start date. Getting trail legs and training on CDT currently so I can restart PCT in 2017 in a fit and read condition. 
> 
> So, smart guys and or gals, what recommendations have you for earliest snow free sections between Sonora Pass and Canada??
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> NTN
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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From kelleybarber at me.com  Sun May 14 16:49:10 2017
From: kelleybarber at me.com (Kelley BARBER)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 14:49:10 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Type 1 diabetes
Message-ID: <1AD60C90-7D68-46FF-8773-707AAFBC95B0@me.com>

Greetings,
Are there any type 1 diabetes thru hikers out there?
Thanks!
Kelley

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Mon May 15 13:09:37 2017
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 11:09:37 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Belden to Old Station late June
Message-ID: <1B168BE9-DAD6-45BA-B66E-92AA90E4FC89@gmail.com>

Thanks to the several folks who responded to my questions re section hiking Section D or F in late June ? very helpful.  I had actually wanted to hike Belden to Old Station, but assumed that the trail thru Lassen would still be full of snow.  Just talked with a ranger at Lassen and he said a lot of their precipitation in recent months has been in the form of rain, and that he expects the PCT to be pretty snow-free ? with some north-facing patches left ? by June 20, when we hope to start.  

The ranger did say to expect a lot of downed trees at that point in time.  Has anyone hiked this portion of Section N in late June?  Any thoughts or recommendations would be very helpful.  Of course, I?ll continue to check in with him as the time grows close, but any advice would be most appreciated.  (I?ve already hiked Old Station to Manning, so am slowly section hiking my way south.)

?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon May 15 13:26:57 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2017 18:26:57 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Belden to Old Station late June
In-Reply-To: <1B168BE9-DAD6-45BA-B66E-92AA90E4FC89@gmail.com>
References: <1B168BE9-DAD6-45BA-B66E-92AA90E4FC89@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17beb1e7d3cd4a8587ec2e7c6f610f5e@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I hiked from Castle Crags south to Chester last year starting around June 10. 

A few areas had been cleared, and I passed crews hard at work to address the remainder. Nevertheless, there were still some lengthy sections that had plenty of downed trees requiring extensive practice of "deadfall yoga". The forested sections are generally not in areas of difficult terrain, so there was always a reasonable means to get around the obstacle. Once or twice I had to hunt around to regain the trail, as several trees fell not across but on the trail, obscuring it for some distance. It did slow me down and had me picking sap off of my hands and pack for the rest of the trip, but there was nothing hazardous. Reduce your miles per day estimates a bit and you should be ok.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:10 AM
To: <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Belden to Old Station late June

Thanks to the several folks who responded to my questions re section hiking Section D or F in late June ? very helpful.  I had actually wanted to hike Belden to Old Station, but assumed that the trail thru Lassen would still be full of snow.  Just talked with a ranger at Lassen and he said a lot of their precipitation in recent months has been in the form of rain, and that he expects the PCT to be pretty snow-free ? with some north-facing patches left ? by June 20, when we hope to start.  

The ranger did say to expect a lot of downed trees at that point in time.  Has anyone hiked this portion of Section N in late June?  Any thoughts or recommendations would be very helpful.  Of course, I?ll continue to check in with him as the time grows close, but any advice would be most appreciated.  (I?ve already hiked Old Station to Manning, so am slowly section hiking my way south.)

?Susan from Spokane, aka Sunshine
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From grandpafaris at yahoo.com  Tue May 16 11:29:37 2017
From: grandpafaris at yahoo.com (Jim Faris)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:29:37 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] sn
References: <429929550.556971.1494952177566.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <429929550.556971.1494952177566@mail.yahoo.com>

how is how snow and river ?in the sierras and is it passable on the PCT ?

From grandpafaris at yahoo.com  Tue May 16 11:35:14 2017
From: grandpafaris at yahoo.com (Jim Faris)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 16:35:14 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Storm
In-Reply-To: <CALV1Nz=Ak=KSyFaBqBAw7MmTJDpFRY1W49OiGfGBrqujHHidyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CALV1Nz=Ak=KSyFaBqBAw7MmTJDpFRY1W49OiGfGBrqujHHidyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <278052407.560302.1494952514885@mail.yahoo.com>

could you ?help ? i am soposta start in Yosemite nobo and finish the pct ?intermediate backpacker ? start date may 30 ? ?any help ..? 

    On Monday, May 8, 2017 11:06 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com> wrote:
 

 The cameras show Snow on Mt Laguna....
and one of the 4 views is still iced over at 11am

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Wow, that was something. It was 43 degrees this morning in Sierra Madre, Calif. which is at 900 feet, and snow on Monrovia Peak which is just a bit over 5000. From the office I can see plenty of new snow on the high San Gabriels.? I hope nobody shipped their ran gear to Kennedy Meadows.
>
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
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From brick at brickrobbins.com  Tue May 16 12:44:17 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 10:44:17 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Storm
In-Reply-To: <278052407.560302.1494952514885@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <1714485417.5877467.1494255213610@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CALV1Nz=Ak=KSyFaBqBAw7MmTJDpFRY1W49OiGfGBrqujHHidyA@mail.gmail.com>
 <278052407.560302.1494952514885@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NznoOZVsHTJ_Fj=anWoLDm7_36d8Uv_vHy2R1J__spNgMg@mail.gmail.com>

Tioga pass has no expected opening date, except " maybe late June or July"

The Yosemite webcam page shows lots of snow in the high country
https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/photosmultimedia/webcams.htm

The Tuolomne Meadows snow senor is still showing 54" of water
equivalency which means ~108-150 inches of snow.
http://www.nohrsc.noaa.gov/nsa/reports.html?region=Sierra_Nevada&var=snowdepth&dy=2017&dm=1&dd=6&units=e&sort=value&filter=0

I'd guess that a trip starting 30 May would require winter
mountaineering gear.  Good luck

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Jim Faris <grandpafaris at yahoo.com> wrote:
> could you  help   i am soposta start in Yosemite nobo and finish the pct
> intermediate backpacker   start date may 30    any help ..
>
>
> On Monday, May 8, 2017 11:06 AM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> The cameras show Snow on Mt Laguna....
> and one of the 4 views is still iced over at 11am
>
> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 7:53 AM, Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Wow, that was something. It was 43 degrees this morning in Sierra Madre,
>> Calif. which is at 900 feet, and snow on Monrovia Peak which is just a bit
>> over 5000. From the office I can see plenty of new snow on the high San
>> Gabriels.  I hope nobody shipped their ran gear to Kennedy Meadows.
>>
>> Gary
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
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>
>

From mom_and_alex at yahoo.com  Tue May 16 12:11:09 2017
From: mom_and_alex at yahoo.com (Heather Darnell)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 17:11:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Not receiving...
References: <451548847.703712.1494954669131.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <451548847.703712.1494954669131@mail.yahoo.com>

Hi! I have not been receiving email notifications for quite some time - did I make a change, or do I need to?Please advise how I re-subscribe - Thanks!!

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From billyvoid56 at yahoo.com  Wed May 17 11:46:56 2017
From: billyvoid56 at yahoo.com (sandy)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 09:46:56 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
Message-ID: <bef9w0248ktkhlef6h4u27k0.1495039616199@email.android.com>


    
This is Sanman, I was suppose to leave km 6/12, but I canceled my trip until next year. Your going to be in snow all the way to canada, and the river crossings and avalanches in all 3 states are going to be major issues, also your package drop offs are going to be a challenge if the can even get in to deliver them. So to all you die hards, be safe and use your heads out there, the pct is not worth dieing over, it will still be there next year. Good luck


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: geraldbking at gmail.com 
Date: 05/14/2017  11:37 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: sesexton at gci.net 
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] What to do? 

Hi NTN,
I think I understand your goal, but this will be a tougher year to pull it off. I'll play your game and suggest you might be able to start in late June on Hwy 35, on the southern shoulder of Mt Hood (Barlow Pass) and head south. You'll encounter snow in Mt Jefferson and a few other central Oregon Cascade locations, but it should be doable all the way to Sonora Pass. Ideally waiting until early July would minimize your time on snow.
Jerry (Navigator)

> On May 14, 2017, at 7:30 AM, sesexton at gci.net wrote:
> 
> My 2016 PCT NoBo was interrupted by hospitalization and subsequent treatment of blood clots in leg. I plan to complete the 1600 +\- miles between Sonora Pass and Canada in 2017. Snow reports for both ends of that stretch suggest late start for a continuous jaunt. Therefore, I am conceptualizing starting somewhere in-between where snow is absent for substantial length (400 miles, say). Mid-June would be approximate start date. Getting trail legs and training on CDT currently so I can restart PCT in 2017 in a fit and read condition. 
> 
> So, smart guys and or gals, what recommendations have you for earliest snow free sections between Sonora Pass and Canada??
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> NTN
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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From belcherjd at juno.com  Wed May 17 12:15:09 2017
From: belcherjd at juno.com (belcherjd at juno.com)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 17:15:09 GMT
Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
Message-ID: <20170517.101509.25816.0@webmail09.dca.untd.com>

If you do the math .... 1600 miles / 22 miles per day = 72 days of hiking + 8 zerosWith a July 1 start at Sonora Pass you would easily arrive at the Canadian border mid September and you will be in the middle to front of the herd all the way. Easy-peasyHave a great hike.
'til later
Jon (Gandalf}

> On May 14, 2017, at 7:30 AM, sesexton at gci.net wrote:
> 
> My 2016 PCT NoBo was interrupted by hospitalization and subsequent treatment of blood clots in leg. I plan to complete the 1600 +\\- miles between Sonora Pass and Canada in 2017. Snow reports for both ends of that stretch suggest late start for a continuous jaunt. Therefore, I am conceptualizing starting somewhere in-between where snow is absent for substantial length (400 miles, say). Mid-June would be approximate start date. Getting trail legs and training on CDT currently so I can restart PCT in 2017 in a fit and read condition. 
> 
> So, smart guys and or gals, what recommendations have you for earliest snow free sections between Sonora Pass and Canada??
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> NTN
> 
____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/591c855db110955d7170st04duc

From timpnye at gmail.com  Wed May 17 15:15:09 2017
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 13:15:09 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
Message-ID: <591caf52.c78a630a.1f946.d93e@mx.google.com>

Based on what I've seen anything on a northern aspect above 9,000 feet stands a good chance of not melting out at all before September. I woke up to fresh snow last Saturday at 4,400 feet east of Lakes Basin at the far northern Sierra. The Lakes Highway is still closed. They are using dynamite on some passes and Ebbits won't be plowed before the end of the month even though they're currently working on it. Donner Pass still has deep snow and Squaw Valley has announced the ski runs will remain open for the rest of the year as long as there is interest. Obviously this will complicate blowdown removal. 22 miles a day under tbose conditions? Don't count on it.





-------- Original message --------From: belcherjd at juno.com Date: 5/17/17  10:15 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] What to do? 
If you do the math .... 1600 miles / 22 miles per day = 72 days of hiking + 8 zerosWith a July 1 start at Sonora Pass you would easily arrive at the Canadian border mid September and you will be in the middle to front of the herd all the way. Easy-peasyHave a great hike.
'til later
Jon (Gandalf}

> On May 14, 2017, at 7:30 AM, sesexton at gci.net wrote:
> 
> My 2016 PCT NoBo was interrupted by hospitalization and subsequent treatment of blood clots in leg. I plan to complete the 1600 +\\- miles between Sonora Pass and Canada in 2017. Snow reports for both ends of that stretch suggest late start for a continuous jaunt. Therefore, I am conceptualizing starting somewhere in-between where snow is absent for substantial length (400 miles, say). Mid-June would be approximate start date. Getting trail legs and training on CDT currently so I can restart PCT in 2017 in a fit and read condition. 
> 
> So, smart guys and or gals, what recommendations have you for earliest snow free sections between Sonora Pass and Canada??
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> NTN
> 
____________________________________________________________
Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times
The Observer
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/591c855db110955d7170st04duc
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From ned at mountaineducation.org  Wed May 17 16:29:45 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 14:29:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Horseshoe Meadows Road Opening date 2017
Message-ID: <00a601d2cf54$b4d4c090$1e7e41b0$@mountaineducation.org>

Just got off the phone with the Inyo County Roads construction supervisor
working the HM road and he told me that the road will be open for Memorial
Day weekend!

 

No more road walking!!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May 17 17:23:18 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Horseshoe Meadows Road Opening date 2017
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iERmnRTz-_WetjZ-T23nJ3FDg4shqFTJMiMfdGs=P4Bg@mail.gmail.com>

That's good news Ned!

For those unfamiliar with the road Ned is talking about- HM in my ex
military mind, stands for Horseshoe Meadow (Rd.), and is accessed by Mulkey
Pass, Trail Pass, and Cottonwood Pass. The distance to Lone Pine, and all
creature comforts found in a town like LP, is 22 miles in length.

Without checking, I think Mulkey Pass is mile #744, Trail Pass is mile
#745, and Cottonwood Pass is mile #750, NOBO- roughly.

I walked about 11 miles down the road in 2012, and got picked up by the
third vehicle of the day, in mid October.

The De La Cour Ranch is 12 miles down from HM, and on a good day, someone
from the ranch may be going to town, which might materialize into a ride.
Otherwise- it's a 22 road walk.

The walk is a lot like descending Fuller Ridge in that seeing the Marongo
Casino for most of the day, is comparable to seeing Lone Pine down below
for most of the day.

Coincidentally- a friend just came off the mountain on this very day,
having camped just below DLC Ranch last night, giving him about a 9 mile
walk into town.

Water is available from Carroll Creek, as it comes off the mountain,
literally supplying the De La Cour Ranch, and goes under Horseshoe Meadow
Rd., transiting this space via a culvert (if my memory serves me correctly).

FWIW- I stayed at the DLC Ranch in 2012, from mid October, until Dec. 23rd,
trading work for room and board. One of the best times of my life. It was
great to learn about the people and history of the Owens Valley, especially
with regards to the Los Angeles aqueduct, and the Los Angeles Department of
Water and Power.

By the way, there is a very hiker friendly and tech savvy gear store in
town- Sierra Elevation, that will give PCT thru hikers a decent discount if
they mention their status.

Regards,

Paint.

Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not hesitate,
should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.

~Robert Brault

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May 17 17:29:34 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:29:34 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Horseshoe Meadows Road Opening date 2017
Message-ID: <CALu=H=ibCVE-0op64v=aG+65-gFrqwnMVGLa4MB2HhLxS3mpYA@mail.gmail.com>

Don't panic.

Upon review... I saw that the wise old owl- NED... DID include a full
description of what HM stands for, clearly displayed in the title.

Good job everybody,

Paint.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May 17 17:32:49 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:32:49 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gB79RRR+8ckLjAPsQZuT+qNY2TZGuT=t4cwJ8ruGgWeQ@mail.gmail.com>

Using the KISS formula-

I would go to Ashland, Oregon, and southbound to Sonora Pass. Then,
transport myself back to Ashland, OR, and go to Canada.

Good luck,

Paint.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May 17 17:39:32 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 15:39:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jnrPJErqhT8+EBw13LeM-JSJTKwL9LesT0fJH2Dhd=_g@mail.gmail.com>

In what seems a cruel irony, the Mountain Fire, south of Idylwild, was
started by an unattended ornamental yard WATER fountain/pump (that shorted
out) setting the countryside on fire.

Paint

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Wed May 17 18:21:53 2017
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (Rob Langsdorf)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 23:21:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] What to do? -- There may still be snow for a while.
In-Reply-To: <6BB4E7E6-6CA4-46C1-A9FC-DC72ADD3BC91@gci.net>
References: <6BB4E7E6-6CA4-46C1-A9FC-DC72ADD3BC91@gci.net>
Message-ID: <1863013589.210673.1495063313301@mail.yahoo.com>

One heavy snow year we started north from the highway between Crater Lake and Mt. Thielsen about the 10th of July. We had our feet in snow at some point each day all the way to Odell Lake. So it can be posthole country even that late in the season. Before we started we kept track of the snow on Mt. Bachelor. It has a number of webcams now that allow you to see how well the snow is melting there to give you a hint as to how deep the snow may be on the PCT in central Oregon.
? ? ? ? ? ? ?Mataguay Connector

      From: "sesexton at gci.net" <sesexton at gci.net>
 To: pct-l at backcountry.net 
 Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 7:31 AM
 Subject: [pct-l] What to do?
   
My 2016 PCT NoBo was interrupted by hospitalization and subsequent treatment of blood clots in leg. I plan to complete the 1600 +\- miles between Sonora Pass and Canada in 2017. Snow reports for both ends of that stretch suggest late start for a continuous jaunt. Therefore, I am conceptualizing starting somewhere in-between where snow is absent for substantial length (400 miles, say). Mid-June would be approximate start date. Getting trail legs and training on CDT currently so I can restart PCT in 2017 in a fit and read condition. 

So, smart guys and or gals, what recommendations have you for earliest snow free sections between Sonora Pass and Canada??

Thanks. 

NTN

Sent from my iPhone
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From pctl at oakapple.net  Thu May 18 21:08:23 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 19:08:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail conditions: Tehachapi Pass to Landers Meadow
Message-ID: <201705190208.v4J28N1X012879@server-f.oakapple.net>


Time period is 14-17 May 2017.    I hiked southbound but will describe
northbound.

Water:

Golden Oaks Spring is fine, but I wish there was a less hazardous way
to get over the barbed wire barrier.    Fortunately my procreative days
are past.     The water is flowing into the plastic jug faster than
I could pump it out.

Robin Bird Spring is in great shape.

>From Jawbone Canyon Rd RD0602 to Piute Mtn Rd RD0608 
there's much more water than I saw in 2004 or 2016.     
Cottonwood Creek, its unnamed tributary, and
Landers Creek are all running well.    But draw from Landers Creek
upstream from Piute Mtn Rd; the water gets a bit funkier near Landers Mdw.

Trees:

In the trail from Sweet Ridge RD0579B to Piute Mtn Rd RD0608, there is
generally about one tree down per mile, in the 6-12" range with 8" median,
easily and already bypassed by equestrians without dangerous or erosive
bypasses.    The evidence was lying on the trail.     That general statement
is modified as follows:

At RD0575 there is a tree across the trail right behind the BLM style.
I assume it's there a symbolic block to dirt bikers, who however can simply
follow the equestrian trail around it.

>From RD0601 to RD0602, there are at least a dozen trees down.

Around 603 there is an 18" tree with a bypass.

Around 603.5 the trail becomes one with a tributary of Cottonwood Creek,
normally dry.    There is a pile of deadfall there including at least 
three trees, one up to 18".    I did not see an equestrian bypass.
The latest deadfall may have been after the latest stock.
The night before the winds in Mojave were even worse than usual.
There were whitecaps on the motel swimming pools.

Campsites:

Young bucks can easily haul up from Tehachapi Pass to Golden Oaks Spring
in one day.     But some of us may need to stop at a dry campsite
along the way.

There are a couple of nice flat sheltered dry campsites worth mentioning,
not listed by Half Mile.
"Sheltered" is the key word here.     Find a flat spot behind a juniper
for instant relief, and be glad you don't have to hike through juniper 
thickets cross country.

RD0575 has a nice campsite immediately downhill from the trail/road junction.

The "road" MK10 - an abandoned jeep trail now used by dirt bikes mostly -
goes steeply and rockily down from RD0575
and then steeply and rockily up to RD0579B.    At the exact bottom at 5300'
there is a very nice large camping area.    
You can't miss it in either direction
because, besides being the bottom, there are "Speed Limit 15 MPH Camping Area"
signs posted.     I don't see how even a dirt bike could get much over
15 MPH on that road.

Schaffer mentions another flat area a bit further north
at 5400' with a huge grey pine.
Don't do it - the wind is furious and the shelter poor.

Roads:

This is the most important part for short-section-hikers and dayhikers.

The official status at 
http://roads.kerndsa.com/road-status-closures
is half-right.

Piute Mountain Road is passable from Kelso Valley Rd to Jawbone Mtn Rd,
which is as far as I needed, even for a Toyota Yaris or a Cooper Mini.
There's one minor mudhole and some minor sandy spots.
The official status is quite wrong.

Jawbone Canyon Rd is completely passable from Hwy 14 to Kelso Valley Rd.
I didn't investigate the Geringer Grade (direct route up to PCT) because
it looked so uninviting last year.     From the Piute Mtn Rd to the PCT
crossing at RD0602, the official status is exactly right: there are major
mudholes, and the first (northernmost) is worst.     Not passable for
ordinary passenger cars - wait for the mud to dry and the road to be graded.
No problem in e.g. an AWD SUV with moderate clearance such as a
Toyota Highlander.    Those mudholes are deep.

Travelog:

I'd nominate 566-569 as the worst three miles of the PCT, at least southbound.
Both times I was exhausted and facing debilitating afternoon headwinds.
Maybe it's better for northbounders starting in the morning.
But for me, I'd rather do the road walk to Seiad Valley or Soledad Canyon.
Any other nominations?

I encountered about 50 northbound through-hikers over these four days.
They had interested answers to the question "so what are you going to
do when you get to Kennedy Meadows a month early for a normal year?"
One from the PNW was already carrying his snowshoes.
Another, closer to my age, commented that somebody was planning an
alternate route below the High Sierra this year.

Time to reconsider the Theodore Solomons Trail?    Even that one probably
has sketchy stream crossings this year.     Yosemite Valley was on serious
flood watch a couple of weeks ago during a hot spell, and another is setting
up for this weekend.

Good luck to all of them.     If I were ever going to do a through-hike,
I should have joined the class of 1977 (check out the 1974 edition to see
what they were up against in this area -  I think it was roads all the way 
from Angeles NF to somewhere north of Weldon.)     
But I wanted to go to work to pay off my student debt.     
So now I do what I can in bits and pieces.

David Hough
http://pcnst.oakapple.net/bits/resources.html

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon May 22 09:21:47 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 14:21:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Jerks
References: <775835226.2332530.1495462907027.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <775835226.2332530.1495462907027@mail.yahoo.com>

Saturday out on the PCT we got to that broad saddle just south of Chimney Creek campground, the spot where people leave the trail to climb the usual route up Spanish Needle.

There's a carsonite post there with a PCT emblem. Someone had taken a sharpie, drawn a short arrow towards the PCT sticker and wrote: How about doing some g*dd**n maintenance on this f**king trail!!!

Nice.

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Mon May 22 11:30:32 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 16:30:32 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Jerks
In-Reply-To: <775835226.2332530.1495462907027@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <775835226.2332530.1495462907027.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <775835226.2332530.1495462907027@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_auxrqQrPcZineS3g31WOJxyztThcPUcghEv2vHEwD8utQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah. I'm sure that act really inspired all the volunteers that work on
that trail...very effective.

Sadly you have to wonder about some of the people on the trail.

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 07:21 Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Saturday out on the PCT we got to that broad saddle just south of Chimney
> Creek campground, the spot where people leave the trail to climb the usual
> route up Spanish Needle.
>
> There's a carsonite post there with a PCT emblem. Someone had taken a
> sharpie, drawn a short arrow towards the PCT sticker and wrote: How about
> doing some g*dd**n maintenance on this f**king trail!!!
>
> Nice.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon May 22 12:54:16 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 17:54:16 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Jerks
References: <1992792471.3839851.1495475656796.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1992792471.3839851.1495475656796@mail.yahoo.com>

We ran into 6 people on the trail. Four of them were thruhiking. Must've been the tip of the herd. They were nice folks, not jerks.

But, yeah, our reaction to the sign writer, was, "Well, get off your butt and volunteer."

Gary


--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/22/17, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jerks
 To: "Gary Schenk" <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>, "Pct Mailing List" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Monday, May 22, 2017, 9:30 AM
 
 Yeah. I'm sure
 that act really inspired all the volunteers that work on
 that trail...very effective.?
 Sadly you have to wonder about some
 of the people on the trail.?
 

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Mon May 22 19:19:24 2017
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (Rob Langsdorf)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 00:19:24 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Jerks
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_auxrqQrPcZineS3g31WOJxyztThcPUcghEv2vHEwD8utQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <775835226.2332530.1495462907027.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
 <775835226.2332530.1495462907027@mail.yahoo.com>
 <CAH8m_auxrqQrPcZineS3g31WOJxyztThcPUcghEv2vHEwD8utQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <76535199.4801639.1495498764985@mail.yahoo.com>

This time of year the grass has just done a fast growth shoot. Places where trails were easy to find 6 weeks ago are covered in foxtails that will turn brown this week and stick in the socks. But with 50 people a day walking over the PCT these should be beaten down fairly quickly.
I have been working on some trails in a scout camp. They are generally in good shape, but the foxtails have to be cleared or the scouts will hike the roads instead of the trails. So it takes a lot of weed whacker work. Also, there have been lots of trees that have fallen in recent weeks. Trees that have died due to the drought and the golden oak beetles.
With all the rain the poison oak has popped up in places where we thought it was gone. ?It is really hard to keep up trails this year.
? ? ? ?Mataguay Connector

      From: Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
 To: Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>; Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
 Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 9:31 AM
 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jerks
   
Yeah. I'm sure that act really inspired all the volunteers that work on
that trail...very effective.

Sadly you have to wonder about some of the people on the trail.

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 07:21 Gary Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Saturday out on the PCT we got to that broad saddle just south of Chimney
> Creek campground, the spot where people leave the trail to climb the usual
> route up Spanish Needle.
>
> There's a carsonite post there with a PCT emblem. Someone had taken a
> sharpie, drawn a short arrow towards the PCT sticker and wrote: How about
> doing some g*dd**n maintenance on this f**king trail!!!
>
> Nice.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


   

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Tue May 23 09:39:31 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 14:39:31 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Jerks
References: <2100953631.437713.1495550371344.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2100953631.437713.1495550371344@mail.yahoo.com>


"There's a carsonite post there with a PCT emblem. Someone had taken a sharpie, drawn a short arrow towards the PCT sticker and wrote: How about doing some g*dd**n maintenance on this f**king trail!!!"

Hmmmm....there are plenty of Pulaski's, McLeod's, shovels, loppers and hand saws waiting for vandal with a sharpie.

Be the change you want to see, instead of adding to the maintenance burden by vandalizing the signage.  If ya don't like how the trail is maintained, join the crew.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Tue May 23 14:41:39 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 19:41:39 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Tuolumne Meadows
Message-ID: <63a1d84abb234030a182a2541967c104@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

The LA Times is reporting: "This year, the still-snowed-under Tioga Pass may not open till almost July 4."

Generally the store and post office do not open until the road is cleared. Those hoping to resupply at TM should check status as they get closer.

Herb

From tvalone.valone at gmail.com  Tue May 23 14:36:29 2017
From: tvalone.valone at gmail.com (Toren Valone)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 12:36:29 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike Question
Message-ID: <CABWQ500b=y2593+EgtN7DVG4viuYYseSBK2xrm3KLs80qmiROg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all, I had a couple of questions. I would like to section hike the
PCT. I live about 80 miles from Section J in California. With all the snow
we had this winter, when would be the appropriate time to hike that
section?

Many thanks!

From geraldbking at gmail.com  Tue May 23 19:54:03 2017
From: geraldbking at gmail.com (Jerry's gmail)
Date: Tue, 23 May 2017 17:54:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike Question
In-Reply-To: <CABWQ500b=y2593+EgtN7DVG4viuYYseSBK2xrm3KLs80qmiROg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWQ500b=y2593+EgtN7DVG4viuYYseSBK2xrm3KLs80qmiROg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C9D9D4AA-3989-49F6-AC86-8B120FAA6794@gmail.com>

Hi Toren,
Some of the early thru hikers will head over Sonora Pass by mid to late June this year, but if you want to avoid most of the snow at this 10,500' pass you might want to delay your start until July 10th at a minimum.
Just my rough guess,
Jerry (Navigator)

> On May 23, 2017, at 12:36 PM, Toren Valone <tvalone.valone at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all, I had a couple of questions. I would like to section hike the
> PCT. I live about 80 miles from Section J in California. With all the snow
> we had this winter, when would be the appropriate time to hike that
> section?
> 
> Many thanks!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From encinomw at yahoo.com  Tue May 23 23:57:53 2017
From: encinomw at yahoo.com (Mike Welch)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 04:57:53 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Jerks
References: <786648970.1220510.1495601873080.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <786648970.1220510.1495601873080@mail.yahoo.com>

Wow.  What's amazing is I literally just finished a section hiking the PCT at Chimney Creek Campground which completed the entire trail for me.  I began with the John Muir Trail in 2006 kept heading North every Summer there after and started filling in the Southern California portions about three years ago.  I have thought many time on the trail at how lucky we all are to have such a well maintained trail and the organization which backs it all up.  An organization that fights the good fight to add land and maintain as much wilderness around the trail as possible.  The trail is an absolute blessing to all who love the natural world and all it's wonders.  Shame on the little people who cannot see, but only complain.  I plan to give back by now volunteering to maintain the trail I have fallen in love with.  Mountain Mike
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/22/17, Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [pct-l] Jerks
 To: "Gary Schenk" <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>, "Pct Mailing List" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Monday, May 22, 2017, 8:30 AM
 
 Yeah. I'm sure that act really inspired all
 the volunteers that work on
 that trail...very effective.
 
 Sadly you have to wonder about some of
 the people on the trail.
 
 On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 07:21 Gary
 Schenk <gary_schenk at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 
 > Saturday out on the PCT we got to
 that broad saddle just south of Chimney
 > Creek campground, the spot where
 people leave the trail to climb the usual
 > route up Spanish Needle.
 >
 > There's a carsonite post there
 with a PCT emblem. Someone had taken a
 > sharpie, drawn a short arrow
 towards the PCT sticker and wrote: How about
 > doing some g*dd**n maintenance on
 this f**king trail!!!
 >
 > Nice.
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Pct-L mailing list
 > Pct-L at backcountry.net
 > To unsubscribe, or change options
 visit:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 >
 > List Archives:
 > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 > All content is copyrighted by the
 respective authors.
 > Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.
 >
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options
 visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the
 respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without
 express permission.
 

From kenglish at gmail.com  Wed May 24 12:34:38 2017
From: kenglish at gmail.com (Kevin English)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 10:34:38 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Nor cal Section hike starting point question
Message-ID: <CAGYxSR_PyOdZFh0y1vqEi4o_eu0_+j=bJz3RFcrzj+W9gk7Tbw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
  We (wife and self) are doing out gear trial section hike this weekend
here in San Diego. Starting around Lake Morena and coming out at end of
 Noble Canyon Trail (not really part of PCT but I don't want go down into
this dessert...)

  If all goes well, we are planning to section hike for 1-2 months from
mid-July to mid-September.

  Our goal is to finish in Yosemite, near Tuolumne Meadows. We were
originally planning to start at Crater Lake but I think this time, we'll
stay in the California side so we don't feel rushed.

   I'm trying to figure out where a good starting place would be. I'm
thinking we should start around *Seiad Valley* or *Etna*. My main concern
is somewhere that I can leave my car and get back to after we complete the
hike. Is there a hotel or something near Etna or Seiad Valley that we could
pay to leave our car for a few months?

  Does anybody have a good recommendation for a starting place for this
scenario.

thanks in advance for your help.

Kevin

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Wed May 24 14:10:06 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 12:10:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Nor cal Section hike starting point question
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR_PyOdZFh0y1vqEi4o_eu0_+j=bJz3RFcrzj+W9gk7Tbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR_PyOdZFh0y1vqEi4o_eu0_+j=bJz3RFcrzj+W9gk7Tbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201d2d4c1$5c5c5fa0$15151ee0$@verizon.net>

The Etna Motel in Etna is very hiker friendly.  It is a small motel (10
rooms I think) but they have a very large parking lot.  You might ask them
if they would let you park your vehicle there.  If not, they may know of
somewhere else.  Contact Jaclyn at 530-467-5338.  She is the owner, along
with her husband, and is very nice and goes out of her way to give rides up
to Etna Summit and to otherwise help hikers.  Etna itself is a very hiker
friendly town as well.

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
English
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 10:35 AM
To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Nor cal Section hike starting point question

Hello,
  We (wife and self) are doing out gear trial section hike this weekend here
in San Diego. Starting around Lake Morena and coming out at end of  Noble
Canyon Trail (not really part of PCT but I don't want go down into this
dessert...)

  If all goes well, we are planning to section hike for 1-2 months from
mid-July to mid-September.

  Our goal is to finish in Yosemite, near Tuolumne Meadows. We were
originally planning to start at Crater Lake but I think this time, we'll
stay in the California side so we don't feel rushed.

   I'm trying to figure out where a good starting place would be. I'm
thinking we should start around *Seiad Valley* or *Etna*. My main concern is
somewhere that I can leave my car and get back to after we complete the
hike. Is there a hotel or something near Etna or Seiad Valley that we could
pay to leave our car for a few months?

  Does anybody have a good recommendation for a starting place for this
scenario.

thanks in advance for your help.

Kevin
_______________________________________________
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Pct-L at backcountry.net
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
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From melaniekclarke at gmail.com  Wed May 24 19:14:43 2017
From: melaniekclarke at gmail.com (Melanie Clarke)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 17:14:43 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
Message-ID: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>

I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are
wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for
the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with
sturdy gaters to the knee.  They are 24 miles from Hikertown right now so
they will be in Kennedy Meadows in a couple of weeks.  My friends says that
they only use hiking boots when they hike in the Alps.  But they really
like the trail runners they are using now.  Boots would stay wet forever
after a stream crossing etc.

All comments appreciated.

m

From melaniekclarke at gmail.com  Wed May 24 22:04:52 2017
From: melaniekclarke at gmail.com (Melanie Clarke)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 20:04:52 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
In-Reply-To: <7C1FC750-327C-4A9C-A762-947DEC5F542D@gmail.com>
References: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C1FC750-327C-4A9C-A762-947DEC5F542D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKeeMLfF_e+syJ-WV0jXWRfz6pwsx-npfm820YEyCB4giZonsw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm concerned that hiking in August is going to be different than hiking in
a high snow year in June.  I also hiked the JMT in August in trail runners.
Is there anyone who has hiked the Sierras in June, in the 2010 or 2011 snow
years?

Diet Plan

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Mark Hurwitz <markhurwitz56 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi M,
> I hiked the JMT last August in Pearl Izumi trail runners with a 35 pound
> pack and had no problems. Of course everyone is different, but I spoke to
> at least 4 people with hiking boots and blisters. Didn't see any other
> trail runners while I was out there though.
> Mark
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On May 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are
> > wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for
> > the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with
> > sturdy gaters to the knee.  They are 24 miles from Hikertown right now so
> > they will be in Kennedy Meadows in a couple of weeks.  My friends says
> that
> > they only use hiking boots when they hike in the Alps.  But they really
> > like the trail runners they are using now.  Boots would stay wet forever
> > after a stream crossing etc.
> >
> > All comments appreciated.
> >
> > m
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From jtpapini at icloud.com  Thu May 25 00:06:43 2017
From: jtpapini at icloud.com (John Papini)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 09:06:43 +0400
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
In-Reply-To: <CAKeeMLfF_e+syJ-WV0jXWRfz6pwsx-npfm820YEyCB4giZonsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C1FC750-327C-4A9C-A762-947DEC5F542D@gmail.com>
 <CAKeeMLfF_e+syJ-WV0jXWRfz6pwsx-npfm820YEyCB4giZonsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F1BFB2DC-9806-44CA-91BB-863B593C1492@icloud.com>

I hiked the Sierras last year in June, admittedly a much lower snow year. But there was snow, for sure.

Given how many streams I padded through, I would be reluctant to recommend proper hiking boots unless your friends enjoy hiking with wet feet. I assume they have micro spikes or crampons made for trail runners?

(As an aside: the streams are so COLD. Even streams ankle deep, if more than a few feet wide, would cause my feet to numb by the time I crossed. Nothing for which you can prepare or need worry, I don't think, but it was something unexpected and peculiar and has stuck in my memory). 

Woodstock

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 25, 2017, at 7:04 AM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm concerned that hiking in August is going to be different than hiking in
> a high snow year in June.  I also hiked the JMT in August in trail runners.
> Is there anyone who has hiked the Sierras in June, in the 2010 or 2011 snow
> years?
> 
> Diet Plan
> 
> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Mark Hurwitz <markhurwitz56 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi M,
>> I hiked the JMT last August in Pearl Izumi trail runners with a 35 pound
>> pack and had no problems. Of course everyone is different, but I spoke to
>> at least 4 people with hiking boots and blisters. Didn't see any other
>> trail runners while I was out there though.
>> Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On May 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are
>>> wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for
>>> the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with
>>> sturdy gaters to the knee.  They are 24 miles from Hikertown right now so
>>> they will be in Kennedy Meadows in a couple of weeks.  My friends says
>> that
>>> they only use hiking boots when they hike in the Alps.  But they really
>>> like the trail runners they are using now.  Boots would stay wet forever
>>> after a stream crossing etc.
>>> 
>>> All comments appreciated.
>>> 
>>> m
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From moodyjj at comcast.net  Thu May 25 08:12:00 2017
From: moodyjj at comcast.net (Jim & Jane Moody)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 13:12:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
In-Reply-To: <CAKeeMLfF_e+syJ-WV0jXWRfz6pwsx-npfm820YEyCB4giZonsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
 <7C1FC750-327C-4A9C-A762-947DEC5F542D@gmail.com>
 <CAKeeMLfF_e+syJ-WV0jXWRfz6pwsx-npfm820YEyCB4giZonsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <252416655.36413189.1495717920793.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>

I got to Sonoma Pass in 2010; had to get off there due to bad knee. I wore leather boots from KM to SP, but the other 4 of the team all wore trail runners, I think. We all had Kathoolas and seemed to do okay. Yes, boots take longer to dry - make sure you loosen up the laces A LOT at night up high. Putting frozen boots on next morning is a challenge. 

In 2011 I started north from SP on 1 July (way too early) in trail runners w/ microspikes. I was by myself a lot of the time, and did not have gps. I spent a lot of time looking for the trail, which meant a lot of wasted effort and extra snow hiking. If you wear trail runners in those conditions, make sure you lace them extra well when crossing high creeks. I got knocked down at Miller Creek and lost one shoe. For the record, you can wear microspikes on a croc if you have to, but it's not recommended. 

Mango 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Melanie Clarke" <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> 
To: "Mark Hurwitz" <markhurwitz56 at gmail.com> 
Cc: "PCT MailingList" <pct-l at backcountry.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 11:04:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017? 

I'm concerned that hiking in August is going to be different than hiking in 
a high snow year in June. I also hiked the JMT in August in trail runners. 
Is there anyone who has hiked the Sierras in June, in the 2010 or 2011 snow 
years? 

Diet Plan 

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 7:53 PM, Mark Hurwitz <markhurwitz56 at gmail.com> 
wrote: 

> Hi M, 
> I hiked the JMT last August in Pearl Izumi trail runners with a 35 pound 
> pack and had no problems. Of course everyone is different, but I spoke to 
> at least 4 people with hiking boots and blisters. Didn't see any other 
> trail runners while I was out there though. 
> Mark 
> 
> Sent from my iPad 
> 
> > On May 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are 
> > wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for 
> > the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with 
> > sturdy gaters to the knee. They are 24 miles from Hikertown right now so 
> > they will be in Kennedy Meadows in a couple of weeks. My friends says 
> that 
> > they only use hiking boots when they hike in the Alps. But they really 
> > like the trail runners they are using now. Boots would stay wet forever 
> > after a stream crossing etc. 
> > 
> > All comments appreciated. 
> > 
> > m 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > Pct-L mailing list 
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> > 
> > List Archives: 
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
_______________________________________________ 
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From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Thu May 25 11:29:43 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:29:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
References: <598021999.2811260.1495729783937.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <598021999.2811260.1495729783937@mail.yahoo.com>

Melanie asked:"I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with sturdy gaters to the knee."
Reply:
I hiked in the high snow year of 2006, leaving KM on June 14.? My 2 cents is to emphasize the fact that hiking the high Sierra this time of year in a high snow year is extremely wet on the feet.? There are countless stream crossings that are over ankle deep, far more than are indicated in any guide.? Due to trail trenching, there are times when the trail itself is a stream.? 

If using boots, the two choices are to have very wet boots (and very wet feet) the entire way, or to be stopping very frequently to change into / out of water crossing footwear so as to keep the boots from being submerged and filling with water.? Even with this very time consuming precaution, its highly probable that boots will become saturated anyways.? Given typical type of boot construction it is unlikely that they would dry out to any significant degree.

If using running type shoes, the choice is to have wet feet some of the time and damp feet most of the remainder of the time.? After a few minutes of walking, post ford, getting the shoes to "squish" out much of the water, if desired, socks can be wrung out and if the next hour of trail is dry, feet are down to merely a damp condition, not soaking wet.? Shoes can dry somewhat at camp or during a lunch break if out in the sun and opened up to the breeze.?? If shoes freeze overnight, it is possible to thaw with a splash of boiling water.

More generically with foot care in these conditions, I would highly recommend finding a nice dry rock to lunch on and removing shoes and socks to allow at least a brief period of totally dry feet mid day.? Once in camp and no longer needing to walk about at the end of the day, get the wet gear off the feet and allow the feet to dry completely - bare dry feet are better than wet socks for sleeping.? Have multiple pair of socks, with a dry pair in reserve (air drying on outside of the pack all day) for sleeping in if you must have socks on at night.? 

Look up "Trench Foot", to include causes and preventative actions that one can take. 

Standard disclaimers:Opinions worth what you paid.
My 2 cents.? 
YMMV.? 
HYOH.? 
Etc.





From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Thu May 25 11:53:26 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 16:53:26 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
In-Reply-To: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9923616dfb94673952de949d99953b6@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I think the only thing I miss when hiking in snow with runners is the ability to kick steps. In that sense boots are superior. How often one needs to kick steps on the PCT depends on how early you are in the season and if you are ascending passes in the mornings when still frozen. On balance I go with runners because of their weight and ability to dry quickly. With traction devices I do not find a significant difference between boots and runners as far as walking on snow.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Melanie Clarke
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 5:15 PM
To: PCT MailingList
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?

I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with sturdy gaters to the knee.  They are 24 miles from Hikertown right now so they will be in Kennedy Meadows in a couple of weeks.  My friends says that they only use hiking boots when they hike in the Alps.  But they really like the trail runners they are using now.  Boots would stay wet forever after a stream crossing etc.

All comments appreciated.

m
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From markhurwitz56 at gmail.com  Wed May 24 21:53:48 2017
From: markhurwitz56 at gmail.com (Mark Hurwitz)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:53:48 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Hiking Boots vs Trail Runners for Sierra 2017?
In-Reply-To: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKeeMLdHXFqsjZr+whRZyXxm6fPugc7yD8M1crVq3y=O-Gt9Cg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7C1FC750-327C-4A9C-A762-947DEC5F542D@gmail.com>

Hi M,
I hiked the JMT last August in Pearl Izumi trail runners with a 35 pound pack and had no problems. Of course everyone is different, but I spoke to at least 4 people with hiking boots and blisters. Didn't see any other trail runners while I was out there though.
Mark

Sent from my iPad

> On May 24, 2017, at 8:14 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I have some European friends hiking the PCT this year and they are
> wondering if I should mail them their hiking boots to Kennedy Meadows for
> the Sierras; or if they should continue to use their trail runners with
> sturdy gaters to the knee.  They are 24 miles from Hikertown right now so
> they will be in Kennedy Meadows in a couple of weeks.  My friends says that
> they only use hiking boots when they hike in the Alps.  But they really
> like the trail runners they are using now.  Boots would stay wet forever
> after a stream crossing etc.
> 
> All comments appreciated.
> 
> m
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From dhbmallard at comcast.net  Fri May 26 10:43:04 2017
From: dhbmallard at comcast.net (Dave Baugher)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 08:43:04 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir Area
Message-ID: <9DA5400360E54295854E61945C176D90@HomeOffice>

I?m looking at coming off the trail in the Dunsmuir/Castle Craig?s area in late June.  I am looking for a ride to Weed or Redding to catch a Greyhound bus south.  Are there any other options beside attempting to hitch a ride?

Dave a.k.a ?Chief?

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri May 26 10:56:02 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 15:56:02 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir Area
In-Reply-To: <9DA5400360E54295854E61945C176D90@HomeOffice>
References: <9DA5400360E54295854E61945C176D90@HomeOffice>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB024697724911F5457F5D0959C8FC0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

It's an easy 4 1/2 mile walk into Dunsmuir. At first along the RR tracks(you cross them east of 5 Frwy). From Dunsmuir you can take train south. At one point you hit a road (maybe half way)from there you can hitch the rest of the way in to town. Lots of locals will pick you up. They are used to hikers. There's also a local bus to Weed where you can get Greyhound. Possible trail angel in area-- there used to be. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Dave Baugher <dhbmallard at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I?m looking at coming off the trail in the Dunsmuir/Castle Craig?s area in late June.  I am looking for a ride to Weed or Redding to catch a Greyhound bus south.  Are there any other options beside attempting to hitch a ride?
> 
> Dave a.k.a ?Chief?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Fri May 26 13:04:04 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 18:04:04 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir Area
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB024697724911F5457F5D0959C8FC0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <9DA5400360E54295854E61945C176D90@HomeOffice>
 <BY2PR20MB024697724911F5457F5D0959C8FC0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <e2be01cea8e749f79ce67376d82135c6@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

You could also hope for a hitch at the entrance to the 5 to take you up to Dunsmuir, but I sure would not count on it. Very minimal traffic when I was there.

I was going the other direction--Dunsmuir to the trail head--and waited for over 1.5 hours for a hitch. Then another hiker came up and I thought "oh boy, now two of us need a ride." We pulled out maps not knowing if we could walk along the tracks to the trail and be darned if we didn't get a ride. I wait nearly two hours and this guy is there maybe two minutes. 

Amtrak services Dunsmuir and you can take the train down to Redding. However, the southbound rolls through after midnight and dumps you in Redding around 2 am. Dunsmuir is a nice little town, with a small but comfortable train station. The Redding train station is locked 24/7 (as of last year) and the platform was a lonely, and somewhat creepy place when I was waiting for my 2:00 am train. I hung out at the adjacent Greyhound station, which also has no interior space to hang, but at least there was a guard and a bit of activity. The guard came buzzing over when he saw me with a pack wandering around. "Just wanted to make sure you were not going to set up camp in the bushes or something." Once he figured out I was not a problem he sat down and we chatted for a couple hours. Unlocked the bathroom for me. By the time I left we knew each other's life story. 

So the good news is the train will drop you right next to the Greyhound station, but the bad news is you will be there at 2:00 am. But hey, pull out your tent and you will immediately have company!

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of marmot marmot
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 8:56 AM
To: Dave Baugher
Cc: Pct-L at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir Area

It's an easy 4 1/2 mile walk into Dunsmuir. At first along the RR tracks(you cross them east of 5 Frwy). From Dunsmuir you can take train south. At one point you hit a road (maybe half way)from there you can hitch the rest of the way in to town. Lots of locals will pick you up. They are used to hikers. There's also a local bus to Weed where you can get Greyhound. Possible trail angel in area-- there used to be. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 26, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Dave Baugher <dhbmallard at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I?m looking at coming off the trail in the Dunsmuir/Castle Craig?s area in late June.  I am looking for a ride to Weed or Redding to catch a Greyhound bus south.  Are there any other options beside attempting to hitch a ride?
> 
> Dave a.k.a ?Chief?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri May 26 16:03:43 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 21:03:43 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fires
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB024624F4FD45C7255C5F3BB5C8FC0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

In a blog one thru-hiker talked about putting out two abandoned campfires in fire rings. At least someone out there is now conscious of how the wind can whip up a smoldering fire even ---as these were---in a fire ring. All it would have taken was a small branch or leaf to be blown into and out of the fire to start another forest fire. I'm asking a politely as possible,as the class of 2017 learns how to be long distance hikers,that you do not make fires unless you are in a life threatening situation. 
Just because fires smell good it does not mean it is safe to start one. Thank you to the hiker who took the time to put out those campfires. Do you want to be the person that burns up that famous tree (and all the anonymous trees along the way)up on Baden-Powell?
Now most of you have seen the destruction the fires have caused. We don't want to add to that destruction. 
Marmot
Sent from my iPhone

From pctl at oakapple.net  Sat May 27 09:22:53 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 07:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] poodle-dog bush in section F
Message-ID: <201705271422.v4REMr1i023106@server-f.oakapple.net>


When I was hiking in section F a couple of weeks ago, some northbounders
warned me that poodle-dog bush was along the trail in some of the burned
areas.    There sure are a lot of burned areas in So Cal so that would not
be too surprising.    I'm not sure how useful the warning was to me since
it was not in bloom and I didn't know what to look for without the 
characteristic flowers.     Anyway I survived without dermatitis.

I'm wondering if anybody who can make a positive identification saw it
there.    This spring I was hiking from Landers Meadow to the LA
Aqueduct at various times.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat May 27 19:51:10 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 17:51:10 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Damaged bridges affect PCT/JMT and Rae Lakes Loop in
 significant way
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iWEFqbAOggWJUEhYD0jcyW4=HZSMK4DY=wrAJZW_upbw@mail.gmail.com>

Sobering news article from the PCTA regarding the Woods Creek suspension
bridge, and the South Fork Kings River bridge.

https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/damaged-bridges-effect-pctjmt-rae-lakes-loop-significant-way/

Stay safe out there...

Paint.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat May 27 19:57:38 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 17:57:38 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Satellite images show extensive snow along the Pacific
 Crest Trail this May
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jn97tirnv9E2YpY7kvo5zVCNUjTmOshpb7E0vNw9vA+w@mail.gmail.com>

Extraordinary overhead views of the PCT in WA, OR, and CA, showing the big
picture. Images dated 23 May, 2017.

https://www.pcta.org/2017/satellite-images-show-extensive-snow-along-pacific-crest-trail-may-48539/

Best regards,

Paint.

Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not
hesitate,
should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.

~Robert Brault

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat May 27 20:49:29 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 18:49:29 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] =?utf-8?q?San_Marino_Woman=2C_27=2C_Dies_After_Falling_60?=
	=?utf-8?q?_Feet_Down_Snow_Chute_on_Mount_Whitney=3A_Sheriff?=
	=?utf-8?b?4oCZcyBPZmZpY2U=?=
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iwQaa3JSOnW-qowOMqmUtZdHNF15a=A6TdbVOa2KxycQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am posting this tragic accident, not in a vein of fear mongering, but as
a cautionary warning regarding a little talked about danger; snow chutes-
and snow bridges... with the potential for same, collapsing under a pack
laden hiker's weight.

http://ktla.com/2017/05/24/san-marino-woman-27-dies-after-falling-60-feet-down-snow-chute-on-mount-whitney-sheriffs-office/


I am reminded by this accident, of the back country ranger with 27 years
experience, that went missing some years ago in Yosemite NP. He too, fell,
in his particular case through the trail footing, which was a snow bridge,
and was swept to his death in the freezing water underneath.

I have very little experience crossing ice chutes, or snow bridges... so
I'm asking myself right now, to find a lesson in these tragic deaths. I
will state what jumps out at me as follows: If; what I am crossing gives
way- what will happen to me, and what am I prepared to do about it? This is
what my mantra will be, if and when I encounter such a situation.

In this hiker's circumstance, almost certainly, an ice axe and crampons
would have at least allowed the person to self arrest and make it home at
the end of the day, albeit battered and bruised. I am also wondering if the
person was inexperienced to the point that they did not recognize the
danger that the snow chute represented. Granted, the article is short on
details.

Your own personal experience or opinion is greatly appreciated.

Paint.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sat May 27 22:30:18 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 20:30:18 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] poodle-dog bush in section F
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jD8P8NS9mLR7CKpn1DFO3MEa5hwMRsKno7+cx4dfrhcA@mail.gmail.com>

Two things stand out in my mind about poodle dog bush...

1 The bottom leaves are always dead- therefore brown, usually about half
way down the stalks.

2 The stalks grow up relatively straight and independent of each other,
without branching.

Bonus- The plant looks like something out of a Dr. Suess book.

Hint- I put the following in a "Google search" >>> poodle-dog bush in
section F <<<

Here's the link:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1440&bih=809&q=poodle-dog+bush+in+section+F&oq=poodle-dog+bush+in+section+F&gs_l=img.12...35144.35144.0.39090.5.5.0.0.0.0.71.71.1.1.0....0...1.2.64.img..4.0.0.0.-DHf3VzYKQU#imgrc=IdJfkMPQMzePpM
:

PS There's something inherently therapeutic about clubbing down poodle dog
bush, with a solid piece of an oak branch, if you get my drift!

PSS Don't use your hiking poles like I did the first time- that poodle dog
bush is way tougher than it looks. ;0)

Good luck,

Paint.

From veselyjames at gmail.com  Sun May 28 08:38:27 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 06:38:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Satellite images show extensive snow along the Pacific
 Crest Trail this May
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jn97tirnv9E2YpY7kvo5zVCNUjTmOshpb7E0vNw9vA+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=jn97tirnv9E2YpY7kvo5zVCNUjTmOshpb7E0vNw9vA+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpszLQ631w3n5X0A6NEd=-CC5rooJg79aCCxyZ8kVbKiQxA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Paint.

This program is interesting but the has no data for 2017

NASA/JPL has created the Airborne Snow Observatory (ASO), a coupled imaging
spectrometer and scanning lidar system. ASO uses the imaging spectrometer
to quantify spectral albedo, broadband albedo, and radiative forcing by
dust and black carbon in snow. The scanning lidar is used to determine snow
depth against snow-free acquisitions and quantifies snow water equivalent
when combined with in-situ constrained modeling of snow density.

https://aso.jpl.nasa.gov/

The site shows 2016 as the latest imagery.

Jim




On May 27, 2017 5:57 PM, "Paint YW" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Extraordinary overhead views of the PCT in WA, OR, and CA, showing the big
> picture. Images dated 23 May, 2017.
>
> https://www.pcta.org/2017/satellite-images-show-
> extensive-snow-along-pacific-crest-trail-may-48539/
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paint.
>
> Be the master of your fate, be the captain of your soul, but do not
> hesitate,
> should the chance befall you, to be the slave of your heart.
>
> ~Robert Brault
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun May 28 10:56:58 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 08:56:58 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Satellite images show extensive snow along the Pacific
 Crest Trail this May
Message-ID: <CALu=H=g62oU1OWmRaw_h02OULS0ve--QDFX+SJuXeoUgp_=tXg@mail.gmail.com>

Thank YOU James!

An interesting short video about NASA collecting accurate data on water
content in the snow pack, using a modest sized turbine aircraft as the
platform.

The instruments (two) measure the sun's affect on the depth of snow over
time, to determine how much water is contained in the snow, to an
incredibly accurate degree.

Biding my time,

Paint.

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Sun May 28 19:32:27 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2017 17:32:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir Area
In-Reply-To: <e2be01cea8e749f79ce67376d82135c6@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <9DA5400360E54295854E61945C176D90@HomeOffice>
 <BY2PR20MB024697724911F5457F5D0959C8FC0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <e2be01cea8e749f79ce67376d82135c6@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <114f477c-b621-3601-1a57-81ac5e9788cf@marcusschwartz.com>

There's a taxi service in the area.  I used it last year when they were 
called something like "Shasta Shuttle and Taxi", though I think they've 
since been renamed to "Mt. Shasta Taxi".

I used them to get into Mt. Shasta City from the trail.  IIRC it was $35 
for two people.  They're quite used to PCT hikers, and picked us up 
directly at the PCT hiker campsite in Castella.

  -=Town Food

On 05/26/2017 11:04 AM, Herb Stroh wrote:
> You could also hope for a hitch at the entrance to the 5 to take you
> up to Dunsmuir, but I sure would not count on it. Very minimal
> traffic when I was there.
>
> I was going the other direction--Dunsmuir to the trail head--and
> waited for over 1.5 hours for a hitch. Then another hiker came up and
> I thought "oh boy, now two of us need a ride." We pulled out maps not
> knowing if we could walk along the tracks to the trail and be darned
> if we didn't get a ride. I wait nearly two hours and this guy is
> there maybe two minutes.
>
> Amtrak services Dunsmuir and you can take the train down to Redding.
> However, the southbound rolls through after midnight and dumps you in
> Redding around 2 am. Dunsmuir is a nice little town, with a small but
> comfortable train station. The Redding train station is locked 24/7
> (as of last year) and the platform was a lonely, and somewhat creepy
> place when I was waiting for my 2:00 am train. I hung out at the
> adjacent Greyhound station, which also has no interior space to hang,
> but at least there was a guard and a bit of activity. The guard came
> buzzing over when he saw me with a pack wandering around. "Just
> wanted to make sure you were not going to set up camp in the bushes
> or something." Once he figured out I was not a problem he sat down
> and we chatted for a couple hours. Unlocked the bathroom for me. By
> the time I left we knew each other's life story.
>
> So the good news is the train will drop you right next to the
> Greyhound station, but the bad news is you will be there at 2:00 am.
> But hey, pull out your tent and you will immediately have company!
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Pct-L
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of marmot marmot
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 8:56 AM To: Dave Baugher Cc:
> Pct-L at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir
> Area
>
> It's an easy 4 1/2 mile walk into Dunsmuir. At first along the RR
> tracks(you cross them east of 5 Frwy). From Dunsmuir you can take
> train south. At one point you hit a road (maybe half way)from there
> you can hitch the rest of the way in to town. Lots of locals will
> pick you up. They are used to hikers. There's also a local bus to
> Weed where you can get Greyhound. Possible trail angel in area--
> there used to be. Marmot
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Dave Baugher <dhbmallard at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I?m looking at coming off the trail in the Dunsmuir/Castle Craig?s
>> area in late June.  I am looking for a ride to Weed or Redding to
>> catch a Greyhound bus south.  Are there any other options beside
>> attempting to hitch a ride?
>>
>> Dave a.k.a ?Chief? _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change
>> options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
>> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
>> prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
>

From laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com  Mon May 29 08:38:06 2017
From: laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com (Laurie Hallum)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 13:38:06 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir Area
In-Reply-To: <114f477c-b621-3601-1a57-81ac5e9788cf@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <9DA5400360E54295854E61945C176D90@HomeOffice>
 <BY2PR20MB024697724911F5457F5D0959C8FC0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <e2be01cea8e749f79ce67376d82135c6@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
 <114f477c-b621-3601-1a57-81ac5e9788cf@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <217764617.2351210.1496065086837@mail.yahoo.com>

I live just outside of Redding, 45 miles south of Castle Crags. ?I've driven hikers around and can possibly help you. ?I do hike or do trail maintenance most weekends, but weekdays are generally open. ?Contact me privately and I'll give you my phone number. ?Laurieaka Lady Pegasus<laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com> 

    On Sunday, May 28, 2017 5:32 PM, Town Food <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
 

 There's a taxi service in the area.? I used it last year when they were 
called something like "Shasta Shuttle and Taxi", though I think they've 
since been renamed to "Mt. Shasta Taxi".

I used them to get into Mt. Shasta City from the trail.? IIRC it was $35 
for two people.? They're quite used to PCT hikers, and picked us up 
directly at the PCT hiker campsite in Castella.

? -=Town Food

On 05/26/2017 11:04 AM, Herb Stroh wrote:
> You could also hope for a hitch at the entrance to the 5 to take you
> up to Dunsmuir, but I sure would not count on it. Very minimal
> traffic when I was there.
>
> I was going the other direction--Dunsmuir to the trail head--and
> waited for over 1.5 hours for a hitch. Then another hiker came up and
> I thought "oh boy, now two of us need a ride." We pulled out maps not
> knowing if we could walk along the tracks to the trail and be darned
> if we didn't get a ride. I wait nearly two hours and this guy is
> there maybe two minutes.
>
> Amtrak services Dunsmuir and you can take the train down to Redding.
> However, the southbound rolls through after midnight and dumps you in
> Redding around 2 am. Dunsmuir is a nice little town, with a small but
> comfortable train station. The Redding train station is locked 24/7
> (as of last year) and the platform was a lonely, and somewhat creepy
> place when I was waiting for my 2:00 am train. I hung out at the
> adjacent Greyhound station, which also has no interior space to hang,
> but at least there was a guard and a bit of activity. The guard came
> buzzing over when he saw me with a pack wandering around. "Just
> wanted to make sure you were not going to set up camp in the bushes
> or something." Once he figured out I was not a problem he sat down
> and we chatted for a couple hours. Unlocked the bathroom for me. By
> the time I left we knew each other's life story.
>
> So the good news is the train will drop you right next to the
> Greyhound station, but the bad news is you will be there at 2:00 am.
> But hey, pull out your tent and you will immediately have company!
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Pct-L
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of marmot marmot
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 8:56 AM To: Dave Baugher Cc:
> Pct-L at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rides in the Dunsmuir
> Area
>
> It's an easy 4 1/2 mile walk into Dunsmuir. At first along the RR
> tracks(you cross them east of 5 Frwy). From Dunsmuir you can take
> train south. At one point you hit a road (maybe half way)from there
> you can hitch the rest of the way in to town. Lots of locals will
> pick you up. They are used to hikers. There's also a local bus to
> Weed where you can get Greyhound. Possible trail angel in area--
> there used to be. Marmot
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 26, 2017, at 8:42 AM, Dave Baugher <dhbmallard at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I?m looking at coming off the trail in the Dunsmuir/Castle Craig?s
>> area in late June.? I am looking for a ride to Weed or Redding to
>> catch a Greyhound bus south.? Are there any other options beside
>> attempting to hitch a ride?
>>
>> Dave a.k.a ?Chief? _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change
>> options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
>> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
>> prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

   

From lwshee at gmail.com  Mon May 29 16:19:50 2017
From: lwshee at gmail.com (Linda Sheehan)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 14:19:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
Message-ID: <CAJAP6uCsLotMXFCSNcFN3QQRwAP8JnYkswXn9r0PrMsP5ZyRYg@mail.gmail.com>

Does anyone have current info on Etna Summit to Ashland? I figure there may
be too much snow for fast travel.

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Mon May 29 17:08:03 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 15:08:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
In-Reply-To: <CAJAP6uCsLotMXFCSNcFN3QQRwAP8JnYkswXn9r0PrMsP5ZyRYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJAP6uCsLotMXFCSNcFN3QQRwAP8JnYkswXn9r0PrMsP5ZyRYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201d2d8c8$0b9c09c0$22d41d40$@verizon.net>

Have you looked at the PCTA.org website?  Click on the blog and you will see
the article about how much snow there is on the trail along with satellite
pictures from May 23.  There is a small section of the trail south of Seiad
Valley that looks like it might be snow free, but not more than one day's
hike up Grider Creek and no easy access on the south side of that snow free
portion.  Etna Summit and north looks like it has a lot of snow.  North of
Seiad Valley it looks like the snow starts at Cook & Green Pass
(approximately 15 trail miles north of Seiad Valley) if not before and lasts
until at least past Mt. Ashland ski area.

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Linda
Sheehan
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 2:20 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions

Does anyone have current info on Etna Summit to Ashland? I figure there may
be too much snow for fast travel.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Mon May 29 20:04:33 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 18:04:33 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pacific Crest Trail Snow & Ford Report - Woods Creek Bridge
 is NOT down
Message-ID: <CALu=H=ih251ZzXXrVChNfqJGpWxpnjgzOAoToh-__EmmPjAkgw@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings hiking aficionados- near and far,

Good news!

According to the latest field report...

H6 799.8 8,532 Woods Creek Suspension Bridge 5/28/17

(Grizz & Lovely Heart via inReach sent from Woods Creek at 8:14pm):
Suspension bridge at mile 799.7 is intact, not damaged, and perfectly
passable.-----

I was advised by the SEKI visitor center that there are two damaged
backcountry bridges in the Rae Lakes Loop area. The first crosses the South
Fork of the King?s River in Upper Paradise Valley, and the second (most
relevant to PCT and JMT hikers) crosses Woods Creek at the Woods
Creek/JMTPCT trail junction. The first closure is mentioned on the SEKI
trail conditions web page, but the second is not yet posted-I assume they
will update this status soon. There will apparently be efforts to
helicopter in temporary bridges and/or repair materials for both crossings,
but there was no timeline given for this work. The office stressed that
both crossings were very hazardous to cross without the bridge and
cautioned not to attempt a ford or a crossing on the remnants of the
damaged bridges. 5/28/17 Grizz & Lovely Heart

https://pctwater.com/

file:///C:/Users/TEX/Downloads/Pacific%20Crest%20Trail%20Water%20Report%20-%20Snow%20Report%20(2).pdf

Best regards,

Paint.

From groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net  Mon May 29 20:41:47 2017
From: groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net (William E Frenette)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 21:41:47 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Thru,s
Message-ID: <15c570420b0-c1f-1bb44@webprd-a66.mail.aol.com>

Where is everyone? Haven't heard a word on the list. Who's out there? Well take care Be safe HAPPY hiking.


groundpounderbill

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Mon May 29 22:47:03 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 20:47:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Thru,s
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jVHjoPL9hx5x6LNgKznbvKLUHQ6=upHqL4Jw6pVP+Kgg@mail.gmail.com>

Hey groundpounderbill-

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the young whipper snappers
of today aren't using our somewhat antiquated medium here at PCT-L for
communication- like they do Facebook, or Instagram.

There is a burgeoning population of thru's out there... stacking up
like cord wood at the classic resupply points. That being said- the
epic / record snow pack and subsequent snow melt is no joke.

The run off hasn't even begun to drain.

Hold on to your ya' ya's-

Paint.

  .

From veselyjames at gmail.com  Tue May 30 00:35:54 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 22:35:54 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pacific Crest Trail Snow & Ford Report - Woods Creek
 Bridge is NOT down
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=ih251ZzXXrVChNfqJGpWxpnjgzOAoToh-__EmmPjAkgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=ih251ZzXXrVChNfqJGpWxpnjgzOAoToh-__EmmPjAkgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpszJE8Pcm+_m-inmCFfR3ak4KcYmx602DBJ+vd-xhZdVoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Paint.

On May 29, 2017 6:04 PM, "Paint YW" <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings hiking aficionados- near and far,
>
> Good news!
>
> According to the latest field report...
>
> H6 799.8 8,532 Woods Creek Suspension Bridge 5/28/17
>
> (Grizz & Lovely Heart via inReach sent from Woods Creek at 8:14pm):
> Suspension bridge at mile 799.7 is intact, not damaged, and perfectly
> passable.-----
>
> I was advised by the SEKI visitor center that there are two damaged
> backcountry bridges in the Rae Lakes Loop area. The first crosses the South
> Fork of the King?s River in Upper Paradise Valley, and the second (most
> relevant to PCT and JMT hikers) crosses Woods Creek at the Woods
> Creek/JMTPCT trail junction. The first closure is mentioned on the SEKI
> trail conditions web page, but the second is not yet posted-I assume they
> will update this status soon. There will apparently be efforts to
> helicopter in temporary bridges and/or repair materials for both crossings,
> but there was no timeline given for this work. The office stressed that
> both crossings were very hazardous to cross without the bridge and
> cautioned not to attempt a ford or a crossing on the remnants of the
> damaged bridges. 5/28/17 Grizz & Lovely Heart
>
> https://pctwater.com/
>
> file:///C:/Users/TEX/Downloads/Pacific%20Crest%
> 20Trail%20Water%20Report%20-%20Snow%20Report%20(2).pdf
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paint.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Tue May 30 13:21:40 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 14:21:40 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Pacific Crest Trail Snow & Ford Report - Woods Creek
 Bridge is NOT down
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=ih251ZzXXrVChNfqJGpWxpnjgzOAoToh-__EmmPjAkgw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=ih251ZzXXrVChNfqJGpWxpnjgzOAoToh-__EmmPjAkgw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D0909953-521E-4CD7-83A9-82A578C0EB54@gmail.com>

Paint YW ?
Thought I'd let you know that you were being discussed at Mt. Laguna store two weeks ago. 
"I don't remember names or faces very well, but some are unforgettable. Have you guys ever met Paint Yer Wagon"
:D
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Greetings hiking aficionados- near and far,
> 
> Good news!
> 
> According to the latest field report...
> 
> H6 799.8 8,532 Woods Creek Suspension Bridge 5/28/17
> 
> (Grizz & Lovely Heart via inReach sent from Woods Creek at 8:14pm):
> Suspension bridge at mile 799.7 is intact, not damaged, and perfectly
> passable.-----
> 
> I was advised by the SEKI visitor center that there are two damaged
> backcountry bridges in the Rae Lakes Loop area. The first crosses the South
> Fork of the King?s River in Upper Paradise Valley, and the second (most
> relevant to PCT and JMT hikers) crosses Woods Creek at the Woods
> Creek/JMTPCT trail junction. The first closure is mentioned on the SEKI
> trail conditions web page, but the second is not yet posted-I assume they
> will update this status soon. There will apparently be efforts to
> helicopter in temporary bridges and/or repair materials for both crossings,
> but there was no timeline given for this work. The office stressed that
> both crossings were very hazardous to cross without the bridge and
> cautioned not to attempt a ford or a crossing on the remnants of the
> damaged bridges. 5/28/17 Grizz & Lovely Heart
> 
> https://pctwater.com/
> 
> file:///C:/Users/TEX/Downloads/Pacific%20Crest%20Trail%20Water%20Report%20-%20Snow%20Report%20(2).pdf
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Paint.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From clifreeder at gmail.com  Mon May 29 22:48:27 2017
From: clifreeder at gmail.com (Clif Reeder)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 03:48:27 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Thru,s
In-Reply-To: <15c570420b0-c1f-1bb44@webprd-a66.mail.aol.com>
References: <15c570420b0-c1f-1bb44@webprd-a66.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAOCSVim-3yXZAUc7fw6WcTYidMTZjs8EHx7wYCQiWJ49Mie6TQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm at a couple days south of Agua Dolce. Having an awesome hike so far!
Posting lots of photos and blogging over at https://hikerilluminati.com

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 6:41 PM William E Frenette <
groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net> wrote:

> Where is everyone? Haven't heard a word on the list. Who's out there? Well
> take care Be safe HAPPY hiking.
>
>
> groundpounderbill
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
-- 
Clif Reeder

From reinholdmetzger at cox.net  Mon May 29 20:24:53 2017
From: reinholdmetzger at cox.net (Reinhold Metzger)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 18:24:53 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] "TOUGH HIKING".... JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
In-Reply-To: <e1bf9114-8361-ac00-f684-8b06d45fbcec@cox.net>
References: <e1bf9114-8361-ac00-f684-8b06d45fbcec@cox.net>
Message-ID: <761aae48-f977-b260-d34b-214c62e34870@cox.net>


You guys think hiking is tough now days?
Click the link below to see what tough hiking is all about.

To my hiking buddies,....those who served and those who know the "PAIN".

Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance"
and it took me back to a time very long ago.

If  "Memorial Day"  means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch
the movie "Taking Chance".
It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you
appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on
Memorial Day.
It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for.
I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way
and makes me say the things I am about to say.......
/
We were  "just kids",  in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam.
//"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of 
High//School,
not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. /
/We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die //for
your country you should be old enough to drink. /
/With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert, 
//cold
weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho //
Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's
Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion and
ready to kick a$$./

/We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time 
//of
war, eager to be heroes. //
That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing //
crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying./

///There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare./

/Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was 
that//the bullet
that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend.
//In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second
and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones./

///In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during 
//a time
of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate 
price while
serving his country during a time of war.
//Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football 
//player who
had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar 
contract to
serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by 
friendly fire.
//But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are 
//always the
same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they 
served
their country and paid the ultimate price./

///If it were not for men like that, Trump might be our Prime Minister 
or //our
national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of
that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their lives
so that we can enjoy what we have today.

//We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am 
older //and
wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids".

//Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and 
//Afghanistan
are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough 
to die for their country./

//
/Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day 
//stands for. /

/Reinhold Metzger
//Sgt. USMC 1964-68
//Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines
//http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh/

//


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From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Tue May 30 18:08:55 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 16:08:55 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Thru,s
In-Reply-To: <CAOCSVim-3yXZAUc7fw6WcTYidMTZjs8EHx7wYCQiWJ49Mie6TQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <15c570420b0-c1f-1bb44@webprd-a66.mail.aol.com>
 <CAOCSVim-3yXZAUc7fw6WcTYidMTZjs8EHx7wYCQiWJ49Mie6TQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_auMEGapJyQYZXpDh3XtUstFapYk2bxry9evmuKtjRqEGg@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent blog. Hiking last year inspired me to learn more about
photography and I love the shots you captured. Thanks for sharing.

 -Rover

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Clif Reeder <clifreeder at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm at a couple days south of Agua Dolce. Having an awesome hike so far!
> Posting lots of photos and blogging over at https://hikerilluminati.com
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 6:41 PM William E Frenette <
> groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Where is everyone? Haven't heard a word on the list. Who's out there?
> Well
> > take care Be safe HAPPY hiking.
> >
> >
> > groundpounderbill
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> --
> Clif Reeder
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From richardb10 at live.com  Tue May 30 21:39:37 2017
From: richardb10 at live.com (Richard Brinkman)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 02:39:37 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pacific Crest Trail Snow & Ford Report - Woods Creek
 Bridge is NOT down
In-Reply-To: <D0909953-521E-4CD7-83A9-82A578C0EB54@gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=ih251ZzXXrVChNfqJGpWxpnjgzOAoToh-__EmmPjAkgw@mail.gmail.com>
 <D0909953-521E-4CD7-83A9-82A578C0EB54@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR16MB171952DBA6876423426AED60A7F10@CY4PR16MB1719.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

I have never met Paint Your Wagon, but I would like to say I know him.  Paint was instrumental in my knowing when to apply for my permit in 2015, as we were all watching, and he sent updates on when the permits could be applied for.  We stayed in touch, and he asked me if I got my permit.  Very much appreciated Paint...  He also sent a video of a guy flying off a cliff to music just before I started my 2015 hike.  While I would never consider such a thing, it sent the message of "yes, I am going to do this."  I used that song among others to make my PCT slideshow.

Many thanks again Paint,

Roadwalker, 2015

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Sabrina Harrison
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:22 AM
To: Paint YW
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pacific Crest Trail Snow & Ford Report - Woods Creek Bridge is NOT down

Paint YW 
Thought I'd let you know that you were being discussed at Mt. Laguna store two weeks ago. 
"I don't remember names or faces very well, but some are unforgettable. Have you guys ever met Paint Yer Wagon"
:D
Sabrina 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 29, 2017, at 9:04 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Greetings hiking aficionados- near and far,
> 
> Good news!
> 
> According to the latest field report...
> 
> H6 799.8 8,532 Woods Creek Suspension Bridge 5/28/17
> 
> (Grizz & Lovely Heart via inReach sent from Woods Creek at 8:14pm):
> Suspension bridge at mile 799.7 is intact, not damaged, and perfectly
> passable.-----
> 
> I was advised by the SEKI visitor center that there are two damaged 
> backcountry bridges in the Rae Lakes Loop area. The first crosses the 
> South Fork of the King?s River in Upper Paradise Valley, and the 
> second (most relevant to PCT and JMT hikers) crosses Woods Creek at 
> the Woods Creek/JMTPCT trail junction. The first closure is mentioned 
> on the SEKI trail conditions web page, but the second is not yet 
> posted-I assume they will update this status soon. There will 
> apparently be efforts to helicopter in temporary bridges and/or repair 
> materials for both crossings, but there was no timeline given for this 
> work. The office stressed that both crossings were very hazardous to 
> cross without the bridge and cautioned not to attempt a ford or a 
> crossing on the remnants of the damaged bridges. 5/28/17 Grizz & 
> Lovely Heart
> 
> https://pctwater.com/
> 
> file:///C:/Users/TEX/Downloads/Pacific%20Crest%20Trail%20Water%20Repor
> t%20-%20Snow%20Report%20(2).pdf
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Paint.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From rosskampmichael at hotmail.com  Wed May 31 12:02:32 2017
From: rosskampmichael at hotmail.com (Michael Rosskamp)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 17:02:32 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
In-Reply-To: <000201d2d8c8$0b9c09c0$22d41d40$@verizon.net>
References: <CAJAP6uCsLotMXFCSNcFN3QQRwAP8JnYkswXn9r0PrMsP5ZyRYg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <000201d2d8c8$0b9c09c0$22d41d40$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <MMXP123MB128031B4C89BAD91D03E9C60A2F10@MMXP123MB1280.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

I just got to seiad valley. the last two sections castle crag - etna - to Here were very difficult, traverses on steep slopes in very Wet snow (man eaten lake, marble mnt,...). trail was still covered in feets of snow. snow Walls you had to climb down from the saddles early in the morning... doing 10-13 miles a day. wouldnt want to do it again right now

Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen

________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 3:08:03 PM
To: 'Linda Sheehan'; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions

Have you looked at the PCTA.org website?  Click on the blog and you will see
the article about how much snow there is on the trail along with satellite
pictures from May 23.  There is a small section of the trail south of Seiad
Valley that looks like it might be snow free, but not more than one day's
hike up Grider Creek and no easy access on the south side of that snow free
portion.  Etna Summit and north looks like it has a lot of snow.  North of
Seiad Valley it looks like the snow starts at Cook & Green Pass
(approximately 15 trail miles north of Seiad Valley) if not before and lasts
until at least past Mt. Ashland ski area.

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Linda
Sheehan
Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 2:20 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions

Does anyone have current info on Etna Summit to Ashland? I figure there may
be too much snow for fast travel.
_______________________________________________
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From kenglish at gmail.com  Wed May 31 14:22:37 2017
From: kenglish at gmail.com (Kevin English)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 12:22:37 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
In-Reply-To: <MMXP123MB128031B4C89BAD91D03E9C60A2F10@MMXP123MB1280.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <CAJAP6uCsLotMXFCSNcFN3QQRwAP8JnYkswXn9r0PrMsP5ZyRYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <000201d2d8c8$0b9c09c0$22d41d40$@verizon.net>
 <MMXP123MB128031B4C89BAD91D03E9C60A2F10@MMXP123MB1280.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <CAGYxSR87vWQfZvnPLQYpDicz974W0u1QS44nPsi3LguYnT9vVA@mail.gmail.com>

thanks for the the update, Michael.

We're doing a section, heading southbound on that section. Do you think it
will be clear by July or should we plan to be hiking in snow?

Kevin

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Michael Rosskamp <
rosskampmichael at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I just got to seiad valley. the last two sections castle crag - etna - to
> Here were very difficult, traverses on steep slopes in very Wet snow (man
> eaten lake, marble mnt,...). trail was still covered in feets of snow. snow
> Walls you had to climb down from the saddles early in the morning... doing
> 10-13 miles a day. wouldnt want to do it again right now
>
> Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen
>
> ________________________________
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Jim Banks <
> JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 3:08:03 PM
> To: 'Linda Sheehan'; pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
>
> Have you looked at the PCTA.org website?  Click on the blog and you will
> see
> the article about how much snow there is on the trail along with satellite
> pictures from May 23.  There is a small section of the trail south of Seiad
> Valley that looks like it might be snow free, but not more than one day's
> hike up Grider Creek and no easy access on the south side of that snow free
> portion.  Etna Summit and north looks like it has a lot of snow.  North of
> Seiad Valley it looks like the snow starts at Cook & Green Pass
> (approximately 15 trail miles north of Seiad Valley) if not before and
> lasts
> until at least past Mt. Ashland ski area.
>
> I-Beam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Linda
> Sheehan
> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 2:20 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
>
> Does anyone have current info on Etna Summit to Ashland? I figure there may
> be too much snow for fast travel.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From kenglish at gmail.com  Wed May 31 18:17:06 2017
From: kenglish at gmail.com (Kevin English)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 16:17:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
Message-ID: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
  have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
agree.

  If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
bring a full set of rain gear?


Kevin

From thomas at stachl.me  Wed May 31 18:50:16 2017
From: thomas at stachl.me (Thomas Stachl)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 23:50:16 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKUiQ9vF5bCYa5hz_Ve5S0aQc3W=d5SzJP-QaZHeyhNBQ5MgNw@mail.gmail.com>

I'll only be carrying a rain jacket, and I'm not sure I'll actually wear it
while walking because I sweat too much to stay dry anyway. So it's possible
to get away with a plastic raincoat, poncho or full rain gear. It all
depends on personal preference and style.

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 4:17 PM Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>   have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
> agree.
>
>   If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
> section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
> bring a full set of rain gear?
>
>
> Kevin
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From jjolson58 at gmail.com  Wed May 31 18:51:22 2017
From: jjolson58 at gmail.com (Jeffrey Olson)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 17:51:22 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f5965a6c-b65e-24ce-47d5-f64e2d7a94af@gmail.com>

Plastic raincoats or ponchos.  You can get a storm that lasts 18 hours 
or so, but they are rare, and when they come, you'll know just to put up 
the tent and hunker down...  More - you'll need sun gear - fingerless 
gloves protecting your hands and broad brimmed hats.  You can use your 
poncho as a ground cloth for your tent...

In  1992 my girlfriend and I got hit by an 18 hour rainstorm near Bucks 
Lake and actually spending a day in the tent made things better between 
us...

jeff


On 5/31/2017 5:17 PM, Kevin English wrote:
> Hello all,
>    have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
> agree.
>
>    If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
> section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
> bring a full set of rain gear?
>
>
> Kevin
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


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From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed May 31 18:57:35 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 23:57:35 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246282812066B5A7FB1C348C8F10@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I believe that plastic rain gear is fragile to wear and awkward to pack. If you would like to go cheaply try DriDuks (sp ?) or Froggtoggs. There are also house brands from the same material at Bass Pro.   I've used them for years and can usually get 1,000+ miles out of a set.  They can be washed but I don't suggest you dry them. If you don't do a lot of bushwhacking they should be fine. They don't build up moisture inside while you hike. 
I've bought them for less than $40 for a set
The likelihood that you will hike that section with no rain is high. But I use the rain gear as part of my layering system. Keeps me warm in the morning. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
>  have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
> agree.
> 
>  If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
> section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
> bring a full set of rain gear?
> 
> 
> Kevin
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Wed May 31 18:59:41 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 23:59:41 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAKUiQ9vF5bCYa5hz_Ve5S0aQc3W=d5SzJP-QaZHeyhNBQ5MgNw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKUiQ9vF5bCYa5hz_Ve5S0aQc3W=d5SzJP-QaZHeyhNBQ5MgNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <275ecd06e06243e590dc14a3016b8f62@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I did get rained on pretty good in norcal last year in late June. I used a light waterproof rain jacket and a rain skirt from Zpacks. The skirt weight in at a scant 1.9 ounces. Sure you eventually get wet from the calf down but that happens in a poncho anyway; or from sweat if hiking in rain pants. You can easily get in and out of the skirt without taking the pack off and it vents better than pants.

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Stachl
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 4:50 PM
To: Kevin English; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat

I'll only be carrying a rain jacket, and I'm not sure I'll actually wear it while walking because I sweat too much to stay dry anyway. So it's possible to get away with a plastic raincoat, poncho or full rain gear. It all depends on personal preference and style.

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 4:17 PM Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>   have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I 
> can't agree.
>
>   If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only 
> norcal section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we 
> need to bring a full set of rain gear?
>
>
> Kevin
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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List Archives:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From zog7140 at gmail.com  Wed May 31 23:05:54 2017
From: zog7140 at gmail.com (Zog7140@gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 21:05:54 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEA43C76-9620-4F7F-B4A2-259CDD7C4733@gmail.com>

A poncho did fine for me. 
Zog

> On May 31, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
>  have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
> agree.
> 
>  If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
> section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
> bring a full set of rain gear?
> 
> 
> Kevin
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