[pct-l] Hitching

Mon Jun 12 09:42:40 CDT 2017

The amount of entitlement on display on this forum is amazing to me. Yes, there are closures every almost every year, but alternatives detours are available, but official and unofficial.
The analogy to me as a veteran is stolen valor. Those individuals who, whether they served or not, appropriate for themselves an accomplishment they wish they had attained and by which they define themselves or by which seek to attain the regard of others. Military service is self defined; military decorations are awarded for achievements the accomplishment of which are recognized by their fellows not by their own self regard.
This is not an accomplishment that is self defined. If I plan to hike the PACT, but a personal tragedy intervenes, do I get to claim a medal? Or, alternatively, if I skip the Sierra from Kennedy Meadows to Old Station do I get to claim a meadow? I mean, those mountains look steep! Does Cheryl Strayed get a medal for her thousand miles? Where is the dividing line? This is a reflection of the need for the rule of law for something whose standard is set by those awarding and recognizing the achievement
I recognize the irony that the medal was founded and paid for by Eric Ryback whose own hike was the subject of much controversy. 
-------- Original message --------From: Rich Steward <richsteward24 at gmail.com> Date: 6/11/17  9:24 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> Cc: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching 
I wonder how many people in the past decade have actually hiked the PCT
from end to end.  Perhaps no one.  How long has the endangered species
closure been in effect? Haven't there been fire closures every year, some
closing the trail for multiple years?  In years with lots of snow, aren't
people wandering all over the place, heading in the general direction of
the PCT, but not even close to it?  What about the re-routes off the PCT
around significant blowdowns?  What about the more desirable alternates,
like Eagle Creek, or Crater Lake?  If you take one of those, are you
disqualified from being a thru-hiker?  It seems to me it's nearly
impossible, probably illegal, and possibly undesirable to hike every mile
of the 2650 mile PCT.  So why have such a rigid definition of a thru-hike?

If you want a continuous footpath from Mexico to Canada, walk Interstate 5.

Let people decide whether they feel they qualify as a thru-hiker, based on
the conditions they faced that year.  No one should be judging them.

Proton '16

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:

> As William Shakespeare said "The Lady doth protest too much, me thinks."
> For those of you who know what Shakespeare meant by this, you get the
> message.
>
> Marmot was exceedingly clear in the post, stating only that those who skip
> portions of the trail should not apply for the completion medal.   The PCTA
> is the organization that gives out the medal and the requirements are as
> follows:
> "To receive your [completion] medal or certificate, first walk or ride the
> entire trail.  Whether your achievement came in sections over twenty years,
> or all at once in a few months, the medal is yours once you've traveled the
> entire 2,650 miles."
>
> So Camille, do whatever you want.  No one cares how you go about hiking
> the trail, whether you skip portions of the trail, whether you stay in a
> motel every night, or whether your mommy paid for your equipment.   All
> Marmot was saying is don't diminish what the completion medal stands for by
> applying for one if you have not yet hiked the entire trail.
>
> I-Beam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Camille
> Tardy
> Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:23 PM
> To: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>; pct-l @backcountry.net <
> pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching
>
> Marmot Marmot,
>
> We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to
> us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.
>
> We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about
> what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched
> one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying
> indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when
> he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that
> at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not
> hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.
>
> Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the
> PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every
> mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the
> overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some
> point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not
> care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the
> trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about
> being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or
> two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the
> end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled,
> learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has
> real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT",
> although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of
> it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is
> actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".
>
> If every one judges others according to their own personal definition
> (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then
> nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels
> and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would
> considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss
> C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked
> food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D
> would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years
> for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every
> time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in
> her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the
> best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days,
> but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah,
> screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make
> both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.
>
> No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a
> task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on
> the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off
> trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You
> hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what
> rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're
> taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And
> because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person,
> then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right"
> enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have
> considered doing something else.
>
> Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance
> of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of
> it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest
> people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if
> they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for
> them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you
> obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more
> interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the
> PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they
> believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies
> just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it
> matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down
> others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out
> the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the
> experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's
> just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on
> the trail in the future.
>
> Happy trails,
>
> The Mermaids
>
> -------- Message d'origine --------
> De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> Date : 08/06/2017 11:17
> (GMT-08:00) À : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Objet :
> [pct-l] Hitching
>
> I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that
> hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that
> complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous
> footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on
> line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot
> tired.
> I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal
> by applying for one.
> Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking
> credit for something not done.
> Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has
> enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is
> something of which to to be proud.
> And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor
> system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of
> many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal
> reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
> The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due
> to snow,fire,avalanche, poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due
> to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route
> on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever
> the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through
> Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
> The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of
> the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn
> ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric
> Ryback('70) hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the
> party being thrown by a trail angel.
> Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then
> ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much
> as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
> Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I
> believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That
> rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If
> I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I
> didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and
> come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over
> again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher
> completion rates than the AT or CDT.
> We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people
> who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it.
> That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
> Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the
> attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all
> or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall
> short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was
> rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It
> means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the
> OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks.
> Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I
> had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality.
> Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our
> long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in
> walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and
> how to live a life that you value.
> Marmot
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
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