From ambery-80243 at mypacks.net  Thu Jun  1 10:37:21 2017
From: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net (ambery-80243 at mypacks.net)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 08:37:21 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [pct-l] early season section hiking in Oregon
Message-ID: <21213587.5656.1496331442492@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I'm throwing this out there as a head's up for those who may not be familiar with spring hiking in Oregon.  I work for the Forest Service and have already had conversations with three section hikers who have shown up at Timberline Lodge with full packs on their backs, ready to hike to Cascade Locks.  They all seemed surprised that there is snow here.   On a normal snow year, May is waaaay too early to hike out of Timerline lodge.  This year we are considerably above normal.  After a week of warm weather and a bit of melting, the snow at Timberline is still at 144 inches.  So while Cascade Locks, at an elevation of near sea level, may look trail ready, and a couple areas near Timothy Lake have cleared, it is still not summer in the Cascades.   I merely want to caution hikers to get information and check conditions before taking the time, money and energy to get to the trail and find they are unable to even start their trek.

From kenglish at gmail.com  Thu Jun  1 11:28:27 2017
From: kenglish at gmail.com (Kevin English)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:28:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <BEA43C76-9620-4F7F-B4A2-259CDD7C4733@gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BEA43C76-9620-4F7F-B4A2-259CDD7C4733@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGYxSR-U+jajii9CM5R+rdVT567k+brurtU6Q9Tp+yz-N=fR2w@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you everybody for the feedback.  I do like the point that works a
lite raincoat works as a layering system for chilly nights. Also, I know
hiking with in those plastic ponchos is a pain, I'm leaning toward bringing
a real rain jacket, probably going to bite the bullet and get the OR Helium
II....

We live in San Diego so rain is never really and issue when we go hiking :)
I always have a few of those $1 plastic ponchos from wal mart in my pack.
My wife had a heavy raincoat when we were in New Zealand but she complained
it was too much weight in the pack

I know hiking in July, rain won't be our #1 concern but I wanna be prepared
for the worst.

Kevin

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Zog7140 at gmail.com <zog7140 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> A poncho did fine for me.
> Zog
>
> > On May 31, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >  have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
> > agree.
> >
> >  If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
> > section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
> > bring a full set of rain gear?
> >
> >
> > Kevin
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Thu Jun  1 11:45:36 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 16:45:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR-U+jajii9CM5R+rdVT567k+brurtU6Q9Tp+yz-N=fR2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BEA43C76-9620-4F7F-B4A2-259CDD7C4733@gmail.com>
 <CAGYxSR-U+jajii9CM5R+rdVT567k+brurtU6Q9Tp+yz-N=fR2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <54369a77de444ab9a6133ac11719dc9e@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

Kevin--

That is the strategy I follow--rain jacket that doubles for warmth.

I went with Luke's Ultralight silpoly ultralight rain shell, at a weight of less than 4 ounces. It is not breathable. However, keep in mind that when it is raining nothing is "breathable." The tech of breathable fabrics is that moisture can be drawn from inside out, but exterior moisture cannot penetrate. That works when there is no exterior moisture, but if it is raining there is nowhere for the inside wetness to go. To me, it was not worth paying the high price of eVent -type materials given I would still wet out from within if wearing during a rainstorm. I bought the rain shell with pit zips to enhance ventilation, and the jacket works well for me. If I am hiking in the rain I vent as much as possible, wear something light underneath, and adjust my pace to minimize sweat. The nice thing about a totally nonbreathable jacket is that it also serves the purpose of a windshirt.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Kevin English
Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2017 9:28 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat

Thank you everybody for the feedback.  I do like the point that works a lite raincoat works as a layering system for chilly nights. Also, I know hiking with in those plastic ponchos is a pain, I'm leaning toward bringing a real rain jacket, probably going to bite the bullet and get the OR Helium II....

We live in San Diego so rain is never really and issue when we go hiking :) I always have a few of those $1 plastic ponchos from wal mart in my pack.
My wife had a heavy raincoat when we were in New Zealand but she complained it was too much weight in the pack

I know hiking in July, rain won't be our #1 concern but I wanna be prepared for the worst.

Kevin

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Zog7140 at gmail.com <zog7140 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> A poncho did fine for me.
> Zog
>
> > On May 31, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >  have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I 
> > can't agree.
> >
> >  If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only 
> > norcal section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do 
> > we need to bring a full set of rain gear?
> >
> >
> > Kevin
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Thu Jun  1 13:16:56 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 14:16:56 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Rain Gear or Plastic Rain coat
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR-U+jajii9CM5R+rdVT567k+brurtU6Q9Tp+yz-N=fR2w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGYxSR8nAhpO8O0ddtpq5qYjkiRFO4aH7BuO02q58EzRCmTnvg@mail.gmail.com>
 <BEA43C76-9620-4F7F-B4A2-259CDD7C4733@gmail.com>
 <CAGYxSR-U+jajii9CM5R+rdVT567k+brurtU6Q9Tp+yz-N=fR2w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C477C43-AF85-4A7A-9085-24CE620BDB48@gmail.com>

Starting off at Campo this year it was rainy and cold! I was thankful for my OR jacket and all my layers. :) 
I have the Zpacks kilt but never used it that day. No other rain after that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 1, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you everybody for the feedback.  I do like the point that works a
> lite raincoat works as a layering system for chilly nights. Also, I know
> hiking with in those plastic ponchos is a pain, I'm leaning toward bringing
> a real rain jacket, probably going to bite the bullet and get the OR Helium
> II....
> 
> We live in San Diego so rain is never really and issue when we go hiking :)
> I always have a few of those $1 plastic ponchos from wal mart in my pack.
> My wife had a heavy raincoat when we were in New Zealand but she complained
> it was too much weight in the pack
> 
> I know hiking in July, rain won't be our #1 concern but I wanna be prepared
> for the worst.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Zog7140 at gmail.com <zog7140 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> A poncho did fine for me.
>> Zog
>> 
>>> On May 31, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> have a very silly gear question and need to settle as wife and I can't
>>> agree.
>>> 
>>> If we are section hiking for 2 months, PCT in July/August only norcal
>>> section, is it ok to just bring plastic raincoats only or do we need to
>>> bring a full set of rain gear?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kevin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>> 
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From geraldbking at gmail.com  Fri Jun  2 01:35:01 2017
From: geraldbking at gmail.com (Jerry's gmail)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:35:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] early season section hiking in Oregon
In-Reply-To: <21213587.5656.1496331442492@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <21213587.5656.1496331442492@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B44B701E-4D8A-4E6C-A37C-8E5B27C41361@gmail.com>

So true Ambery!
I'm a volunteer with PNWSAR and we've packed out several people between Timberline Lodge and Ramona Falls during the past 3 'below normal' years and we are pretty concerned about the next 6 weeks. The shoulder of Mt Hood along the PCT usually holds snow until early July, I expect it to last until late July this year!
Jerry

> On Jun 1, 2017, at 8:37 AM, <ambery-80243 at mypacks.net> <ambery-80243 at mypacks.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm throwing this out there as a head's up for those who may not be familiar with spring hiking in Oregon.  I work for the Forest Service and have already had conversations with three section hikers who have shown up at Timberline Lodge with full packs on their backs, ready to hike to Cascade Locks.  They all seemed surprised that there is snow here.   On a normal snow year, May is waaaay too early to hike out of Timerline lodge.  This year we are considerably above normal.  After a week of warm weather and a bit of melting, the snow at Timberline is still at 144 inches.  So while Cascade Locks, at an elevation of near sea level, may look trail ready, and a couple areas near Timothy Lake have cleared, it is still not summer in the Cascades.   I merely want to caution hikers to get information and check conditions before taking the time, money and energy to get to the trail and find they are unable to even start their trek.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From veselyjames at gmail.com  Fri Jun  2 08:18:18 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 06:18:18 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail journals
In-Reply-To: <CAMxQpsyxDOAKEWM7=Jt4viguH9=LjGD21NgoY3AKa6jWyHg+oA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxQpsxdFg0+LKsEt458J0rsYXRTeZuNGXEiDcqfz=uFVOZ0ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMxQpsyxDOAKEWM7=Jt4viguH9=LjGD21NgoY3AKa6jWyHg+oA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpsyEbrwQW_-HxO9mPOGgfQP=WT=LUHtwJT2U0iasoqi1BQ@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone following interesting trail journals this year?

From sesexton at gci.net  Fri Jun  2 14:49:16 2017
From: sesexton at gci.net (sesexton at gci.net)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:49:16 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
In-Reply-To: <CAGYxSR87vWQfZvnPLQYpDicz974W0u1QS44nPsi3LguYnT9vVA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJAP6uCsLotMXFCSNcFN3QQRwAP8JnYkswXn9r0PrMsP5ZyRYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <000201d2d8c8$0b9c09c0$22d41d40$@verizon.net>
 <MMXP123MB128031B4C89BAD91D03E9C60A2F10@MMXP123MB1280.GBRP123.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <CAGYxSR87vWQfZvnPLQYpDicz974W0u1QS44nPsi3LguYnT9vVA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CA11B3D-A268-436D-B023-ADB004826880@gci.net>

Thanks. Will stay on CDT a bit longer. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 31, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Kevin English <kenglish at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> thanks for the the update, Michael.
> 
> We're doing a section, heading southbound on that section. Do you think it
> will be clear by July or should we plan to be hiking in snow?
> 
> Kevin
> 
> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Michael Rosskamp <
> rosskampmichael at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> I just got to seiad valley. the last two sections castle crag - etna - to
>> Here were very difficult, traverses on steep slopes in very Wet snow (man
>> eaten lake, marble mnt,...). trail was still covered in feets of snow. snow
>> Walls you had to climb down from the saddles early in the morning... doing
>> 10-13 miles a day. wouldnt want to do it again right now
>> 
>> Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Jim Banks <
>> JimLBanks at verizon.net>
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 3:08:03 PM
>> To: 'Linda Sheehan'; pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
>> 
>> Have you looked at the PCTA.org website?  Click on the blog and you will
>> see
>> the article about how much snow there is on the trail along with satellite
>> pictures from May 23.  There is a small section of the trail south of Seiad
>> Valley that looks like it might be snow free, but not more than one day's
>> hike up Grider Creek and no easy access on the south side of that snow free
>> portion.  Etna Summit and north looks like it has a lot of snow.  North of
>> Seiad Valley it looks like the snow starts at Cook & Green Pass
>> (approximately 15 trail miles north of Seiad Valley) if not before and
>> lasts
>> until at least past Mt. Ashland ski area.
>> 
>> I-Beam
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Linda
>> Sheehan
>> Sent: Monday, May 29, 2017 2:20 PM
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] Northern Cal conditions
>> 
>> Does anyone have current info on Etna Summit to Ashland? I figure there may
>> be too much snow for fast travel.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Fri Jun  2 16:04:39 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 21:04:39 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail journals
References: <1639359043.788972.1496437479103.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1639359043.788972.1496437479103@mail.yahoo.com>

https://nobohobos.wordpress.com/
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/2/17, James Vesely <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:
 Anyone following interesting trail journals
 this year?

 

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Fri Jun  2 21:46:25 2017
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 19:46:25 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gihGarwS-8wUWZ=qN75Ry0z5iYBO1LGZPLibwMAXXhSw@mail.gmail.com>

[ Paint YW ?
Thought I'd let you know that you were being discussed at Mt. Laguna
store two weeks ago.
"I don't remember names or faces very well, but some are
unforgettable. Have you guys ever met Paint Yer Wagon"
:*D
*Sabrina

Sent from my iPhone ]


In defense of my reputation I must ask if you've been communicating
with the store owners at Mt. Laguna, for they are righteous AND...
brutal! Two brothers that are at once wonderful, and down right
belligerent, in spewing their original comedic schtick! Good luck and
God Bless!

Paint.

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Fri Jun  2 22:19:34 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2017 22:19:34 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=gihGarwS-8wUWZ=qN75Ry0z5iYBO1LGZPLibwMAXXhSw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=gihGarwS-8wUWZ=qN75Ry0z5iYBO1LGZPLibwMAXXhSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E6A38D7D-02DB-41C9-97D8-C3F5975E8CF0@gmail.com>

This time...all the talk was very positive and uplifting. No worries. ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 2, 2017, at 9:46 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> [ Paint YW ?
> Thought I'd let you know that you were being discussed at Mt. Laguna
> store two weeks ago.
> "I don't remember names or faces very well, but some are
> unforgettable. Have you guys ever met Paint Yer Wagon"
> :*D
> *Sabrina
> 
> Sent from my iPhone ]
> 
> 
> In defense of my reputation I must ask if you've been communicating
> with the store owners at Mt. Laguna, for they are righteous AND...
> brutal! Two brothers that are at once wonderful, and down right
> belligerent, in spewing their original comedic schtick! Good luck and
> God Bless!
> 
> Paint.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From baidarker at gmail.com  Sat Jun  3 18:32:07 2017
From: baidarker at gmail.com (Scott Williams)
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2017 16:32:07 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail journals
In-Reply-To: <CAMxQpsyEbrwQW_-HxO9mPOGgfQP=WT=LUHtwJT2U0iasoqi1BQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMxQpsxdFg0+LKsEt458J0rsYXRTeZuNGXEiDcqfz=uFVOZ0ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMxQpsyxDOAKEWM7=Jt4viguH9=LjGD21NgoY3AKa6jWyHg+oA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMxQpsyEbrwQW_-HxO9mPOGgfQP=WT=LUHtwJT2U0iasoqi1BQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGxcj119hz1eySds113tjSQjGnJGW1KmM2XOHD=h3BnSpjg9=A@mail.gmail.com>

Hey James,

Here's one friend who's at Grants NM right now on the CDT, Loren Mauch.
Short and sweet entries and fun to follow.  He's one of the regular hikers
with our crazy bunch of thru hikers in the Bay Area.  Completed the PCT a
few years ago and has hiked the JMT many times.  Good hiker and a good guy.


Shroomer

On Fri, Jun 2, 2017 at 6:18 AM, James Vesely <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:

> Anyone following interesting trail journals this year?
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Jun  7 11:18:09 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 16:18:09 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hik
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB02463936904C651DED555856C8C80@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>



Sent from my iPhone

From claresen at me.com  Wed Jun  7 20:12:11 2017
From: claresen at me.com (clare senchyna)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:12:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail angles in Tehachapi
Message-ID: <2DA7114A-F8A9-46C1-9B48-C7043AB1ABCF@me.com>

Looking for place to leave car in Tehachapi for about a week while we do another section. Any suggestions?

Sent from my iPhone

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Wed Jun  7 21:01:12 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (pctl at marcusschwartz.com)
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2017 19:01:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail angles in Tehachapi
In-Reply-To: <2DA7114A-F8A9-46C1-9B48-C7043AB1ABCF@me.com>
Message-ID: <6912af407bed5ed85a2935d12f2e27740c7c7db0@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>

Crow's terrific PCT Town Guide includes a list of Tehachapi trail
angels: http://asthecrowflies.org/pctpacific-crest-trail-town-guide/

I don't get why her town guide isn't more widely-used!

?-=Marcus

----- Original Message -----
From: "clare senchyna" <claresen at me.com>
To:<Pct-L at backcountry.net>
Cc:
Sent:Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:12:11 -0700
Subject:[pct-l] Trail angles in Tehachapi

 Looking for place to leave car in Tehachapi for about a week while we
do another section. Any suggestions?

 Sent from my iPhone
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From jtpapini at icloud.com  Thu Jun  8 00:22:06 2017
From: jtpapini at icloud.com (John Papini)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2017 09:22:06 +0400
Subject: [pct-l] Trail angles in Tehachapi
In-Reply-To: <6912af407bed5ed85a2935d12f2e27740c7c7db0@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>
References: <6912af407bed5ed85a2935d12f2e27740c7c7db0@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CF9CFB0D-8C2F-4A7F-8751-D16DC8F72499@icloud.com>

I used it all last year, it's a terrific reference. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 8, 2017, at 6:01 AM, pctl at marcusschwartz.com wrote:
> 
> Crow's terrific PCT Town Guide includes a list of Tehachapi trail
> angels: http://asthecrowflies.org/pctpacific-crest-trail-town-guide/
> 
> I don't get why her town guide isn't more widely-used!
> 
>  -=Marcus
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "clare senchyna" <claresen at me.com>
> To:<Pct-L at backcountry.net>
> Cc:
> Sent:Wed, 07 Jun 2017 18:12:11 -0700
> Subject:[pct-l] Trail angles in Tehachapi
> 
> Looking for place to leave car in Tehachapi for about a week while we
> do another section. Any suggestions?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Thu Jun  8 13:17:36 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 18:17:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246018A5B2ECC4FBA767233C8C90@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot tired. 
I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal by applying for one. 
Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking credit for something not done. 
Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is something of which to to be proud. 
And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal reasons who went back and did those skipped sections. 
The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due to snow,fire,avalanche,
poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.  
The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric Ryback('70)
hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the party being thrown by a trail angel. 
Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much as you can has its own value and its own lessons. 
Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher completion rates than the AT or CDT. 
We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it. That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
 Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks. Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality. Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and how to live a life that you value. 
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone

From efuller at planhike.com  Fri Jun  9 01:01:53 2017
From: efuller at planhike.com (Eric Fuller)
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2017 23:01:53 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail angles in Tehachapi
In-Reply-To: <2DA7114A-F8A9-46C1-9B48-C7043AB1ABCF@me.com>
References: <2DA7114A-F8A9-46C1-9B48-C7043AB1ABCF@me.com>
Message-ID: <4011ebf4-7772-4247-ea09-6cac8d22923b@planhike.com>

maybe try trailangellist.org there are some trail angels in Tehachapi.

Hundy


On 6/7/2017 6:12 PM, clare senchyna wrote:
> Looking for place to leave car in Tehachapi for about a week while we do another section. Any suggestions?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>


From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri Jun  9 17:04:12 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 22:04:12 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
In-Reply-To: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB024611472D0A431B80300F72C8CE0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

I'm sorry. Maybe I was unclear. What I was saying is please do not apply for a PCT finishing medal or a Triple Crown. No one is required to do the trail in any manner other than they choose.  Doing any part of it is valuable and something of which to be proud.
 It's simple what the standard is. Hike on foot from Mexico to Canada on the PCT with reasonable alternative routes( on foot). The PCT is just like any long distance trail. It does not matter if you do it north, south,flip flop,with a pack or without ,sleep on the trail or in a motel every night, take one season or 20 years to complete the trail. You just have to have a continuous footpath. Or if a horse person on horseback.
No one is devaluing anyone's hike. It's tough to be that person who can't afford to stay in a motel or has to feed themselves out of the hiker box.  I've seen and been both over the years. It used to be common to hike close to a town,camp, hike in to resupply then hike out to bathe in a stream. It just doesn't matter how you do it---just that you do. Continuous footpath. Every person is out there for their own reasons. At the end you value what you have done not what you have not.
As I said before there are trails I have not finished. They may always stay that way. That is was is true. I don't get to claim them as finished. I just hiked on those trails in certain years. It's not a high bar---just at times a hard one. I only called it a task because at times is difficult. That's when people hop in a car or go home. I've been injured so badly that I had to go home. I know what it feels like.
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 9, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Camille Tardy <c.tardy at hotmail.fr<mailto:c.tardy at hotmail.fr>> wrote:

Marmot Marmot,

We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.

We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.

Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled, learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT", although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".

If every one judges others according to their own personal definition (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days, but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah, screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.

No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person, then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right" enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have considered doing something else.

Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on the trail in the future.

Happy trails,

The Mermaids

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com<mailto:marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>>
Date : 08/06/2017 11:17 (GMT-08:00)
? : "pct-l @backcountry.net<http://backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
Objet : [pct-l] Hitching

I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot tired.
I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal by applying for one.
Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking credit for something not done.
Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is something of which to to be proud.
And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due to snow,fire,avalanche,
poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric Ryback('70)
hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the party being thrown by a trail angel.
Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher completion rates than the AT or CDT.
We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it. That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks. Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality. Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and how to live a life that you value.
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone
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From reddirt23 at att.net  Sat Jun 10 02:24:50 2017
From: reddirt23 at att.net (Stephen Adams)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 00:24:50 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
Message-ID: <D4881748-D350-4DB7-9955-B588536258A3@att.net>

Chill out, nobody really cares.  

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 10 06:44:15 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 11:44:15 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
In-Reply-To: <D4881748-D350-4DB7-9955-B588536258A3@att.net>
References: <D4881748-D350-4DB7-9955-B588536258A3@att.net>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB024604E217DD6B2C4491971FC8CF0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Re: "Nobody really cares". Yes,I imagine you are correct. That may be the denouement of this discussion. 
All the best
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2017, at 11:59 PM, Stephen Adams <reddirt23 at att.net> wrote:
> 
> Chill out, nobody really cares.  
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com  Sat Jun 10 08:52:42 2017
From: scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com (Scott Diamond)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 13:52:42 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] End of PCT Hike
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB024604E217DD6B2C4491971FC8CF0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <D4881748-D350-4DB7-9955-B588536258A3@att.net>
 <BY2PR20MB024604E217DD6B2C4491971FC8CF0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH8m_atew3tgLWZoKig=SFOq3wrehvC2qve95inFCcU5ZNXy7g@mail.gmail.com>

A friend forwarded this to me by e-mail

  - Rover


My friend hiking the Pacific Crest Trail ended his hike in dramatic fashion.

I pulled his near-death story from Facebook ?.



For those of you that have been following along, unfortunately my Pacific
Crest Trail journey has come to an abrupt and very dangerous end, where I
can say I am truly lucky and grateful to be alive. Here?s what happened.

At about 1,000 miles into my hike I was hiking alone in the Sierra Nevada
Mountains when I came across a particularly treacherous river crossing. The
flow was strong and the water was past my waist. As I was fording the river
my footing gave way under a lose rock and I was swept into the current. I
began rushing towards a waterfall and couldn?t swim out with my 60 lb pack
on so I ditched the pack and was able to swim out of the river before I hit
the waterfall and rocks. Unfortunately my pack and all of my belongings are
lost forever in the river and probably washed up somewhere in Southern
California now, but I didn?t drown so it was worth it. The realization of
being stranded in the middle of nowhere, alone, in snow covered mountains
with nothing but the clothes I was wearing on my back quickly settled in.

Given no one knew I was in trouble, and there was so much snow this year
there was no trail to follow, the only way I would survive was by
backtracking my own footprints in the snow for 15 miles to try and get to a
remote shelter I stayed at the night before, where I could wait and hope
for the slim chance someone would come by in the next few days. I made it
back 7 of the 15 miles before nightfall, which brought sub-freezing temps,
while I had no shelter and wet, cold clothes. It was cold enough where if I
fell asleep I probably wouldn?t wake back up, so I had to do jumping jacks
and run in circles all night to keep from freezing to death.

Once the sun came up I started tracking my day old prints again.
Unfortunately if I were to lose my tracks, or if a snow storm were to roll
in, I would lose all chances being able to navigate back and of survival.
Twice I did lose those tracks however, and leaving it up to fate I decided
to follow some deer and coyote tracks I came across, which miraculously
lead me straight to my tracks both times. Luckily the weather was clear,
and even though I had lost my glasses in the river, I was able to track
myself back 14 of the 15 miles I had done the day before. At this point the
sun had melted away the rest of my prints. I knew I was within a mile or
two of the shelter I hoped to find, but I had no idea which direction to
go, and no tools to help navigate (My map, compass, phone, etc. were all
lost to the river). After climbing up 3 different mountains that I thought
may be the right way, I came back down to the last track I could find and
began losing hope, realizing that I was probably going to die out there. I
wouldn?t be able to last another night in the freezing weather without food
or sleep, and no one knew I was in trouble - there would be no rescue or
rangers looking for me - I was officially lost in the mountains without any
leads.

Then I got lucky. As I came to terms with my probable death by freezing or
eventual starvation, I heard the humming of machinery. Then the classic
backup beeping noise you hear from big vehicles! There was people somewhere
here in the middle of nowhere! My heart jumped and adrenaline shot through
my veins. That day, at that hour happened to be the time that the state
decided to send some giant bulldozers to start plowing the back country
road that runs through the mountains and near where I was, although it was
covered by 10 ft of snow and still was closed. I saw the trucks emerging
out of a valley miles away across a snow plain and past the Tuolumne River.
I needed to get over to them and make sure they saw me before they left. I
sprinted across the plain and dove into the giant river and began swimming
across. Somehow I swam through the current and got to the other side. The
water was freezing, I definitely had hypothermia. I ran up to the
bulldozer, finally realizing I wasn?t going to die at 25 in the middle of
nowhere in the mountains! I got a ride in the giant bulldozer for miles out
of the mountains and got to a ranger station. I made friends with the
Yosemite Rangers and ended up staying with them that night where we
celebrated the weekend and my unlikely survival.

Thank you Emily Noyd <https://www.facebook.com/emilynoyd?fref=mentions> for
the hospitality and kindness, what a great way to end a day that started
quite differently! Although I wasn?t in life threatening danger anymore, I
was still in Yosemite National Park with no ID, money, or belongings.
Within an hour after calling them,Joseph
<https://www.facebook.com/joe.mccoy.735?fref=mentions> and Chelsea McCoy
hopped in their car and drove 11 hours from Portland down to where I was to
come get me, then turned around and drove back. They are truly the best
friends any one could have and went above and beyond the duties of
friendship. I?m safe and sound now, and so happy to be alive. Everything
tastes a little sweeter after having an experience like that, and I can?t
begin to explain how grateful I am to still be here. I made some good
decisions out there and gave myself the best chance of survival by refusing
to stop fighting for my life, but honestly, none of that would have
mattered if I didn?t get as lucky as I did or didn?t receive the miracle
which was those Bulldozers that just happened to be plowing a road in the
middle of a mountain range that day at that time. Happy to be here, happy
to be alive and I?m looking forward to seeing you all!

From aslive at charter.net  Sat Jun 10 09:56:01 2017
From: aslive at charter.net (aslive at charter.net)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:56:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] End of PCT Hike
Message-ID: <X2w11v00H1Jzfl8012w1Vh@charter.net>

WOW! Now that's an adventure. One needs to be careful when crossing
streams. He did not say if he was using trekking poles to steady
himself when crossing or if he had his body turned toward the current
so that one leg blocked the current from the other, although at waist
deep the water was likely too much for him anyway. Hes is one lucky
guy.

	-----------------------------------------From: "Scott Diamond" 
To: 
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net"
Sent: 10-Jun-2017 13:52:56 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] End of PCT Hike

 A friend forwarded this to me by e-mail

 - Rover

 My friend hiking the Pacific Crest Trail ended his hike in dramatic
fashion.

 I pulled his near-death story from Facebook ?.

 For those of you that have been following along, unfortunately my
Pacific
 Crest Trail journey has come to an abrupt and very dangerous end,
where I
 can say I am truly lucky and grateful to be alive. Here?s what
happened.

 At about 1,000 miles into my hike I was hiking alone in the Sierra
Nevada
 Mountains when I came across a particularly treacherous river
crossing. The
 flow was strong and the water was past my waist. As I was fording the
river
 my footing gave way under a lose rock and I was swept into the
current. I
 began rushing towards a waterfall and couldn?t swim out with my 60
lb pack
 on so I ditched the pack and was able to swim out of the river before
I hit
 the waterfall and rocks. Unfortunately my pack and all of my
belongings are
 lost forever in the river and probably washed up somewhere in
Southern
 California now, but I didn?t drown so it was worth it. The
realization of
 being stranded in the middle of nowhere, alone, in snow covered
mountains
 with nothing but the clothes I was wearing on my back quickly settled
in.

 Given no one knew I was in trouble, and there was so much snow this
year
 there was no trail to follow, the only way I would survive was by
 backtracking my own footprints in the snow for 15 miles to try and
get to a
 remote shelter I stayed at the night before, where I could wait and
hope
 for the slim chance someone would come by in the next few days. I
made it
 back 7 of the 15 miles before nightfall, which brought sub-freezing
temps,
 while I had no shelter and wet, cold clothes. It was cold enough
where if I
 fell asleep I probably wouldn?t wake back up, so I had to do
jumping jacks
 and run in circles all night to keep from freezing to death.

 Once the sun came up I started tracking my day old prints again.
 Unfortunately if I were to lose my tracks, or if a snow storm were to
roll
 in, I would lose all chances being able to navigate back and of
survival.
 Twice I did lose those tracks however, and leaving it up to fate I
decided
 to follow some deer and coyote tracks I came across, which
miraculously
 lead me straight to my tracks both times. Luckily the weather was
clear,
 and even though I had lost my glasses in the river, I was able to
track
 myself back 14 of the 15 miles I had done the day before. At this
point the
 sun had melted away the rest of my prints. I knew I was within a mile
or
 two of the shelter I hoped to find, but I had no idea which direction
to
 go, and no tools to help navigate (My map, compass, phone, etc. were
all
 lost to the river). After climbing up 3 different mountains that I
thought
 may be the right way, I came back down to the last track I could find
and
 began losing hope, realizing that I was probably going to die out
there. I
 wouldn?t be able to last another night in the freezing weather
without food
 or sleep, and no one knew I was in trouble - there would be no rescue
or
 rangers looking for me - I was officially lost in the mountains
without any
 leads.

 Then I got lucky. As I came to terms with my probable death by
freezing or
 eventual starvation, I heard the humming of machinery. Then the
classic
 backup beeping noise you hear from big vehicles! There was people
somewhere
 here in the middle of nowhere! My heart jumped and adrenaline shot
through
 my veins. That day, at that hour happened to be the time that the
state
 decided to send some giant bulldozers to start plowing the back
country
 road that runs through the mountains and near where I was, although
it was
 covered by 10 ft of snow and still was closed. I saw the trucks
emerging
 out of a valley miles away across a snow plain and past the Tuolumne
River.
 I needed to get over to them and make sure they saw me before they
left. I
 sprinted across the plain and dove into the giant river and began
swimming
 across. Somehow I swam through the current and got to the other side.
The
 water was freezing, I definitely had hypothermia. I ran up to the
 bulldozer, finally realizing I wasn?t going to die at 25 in the
middle of
 nowhere in the mountains! I got a ride in the giant bulldozer for
miles out
 of the mountains and got to a ranger station. I made friends with the
 Yosemite Rangers and ended up staying with them that night where we
 celebrated the weekend and my unlikely survival.

 Thank you Emily Noyd  [1] for
 the hospitality and kindness, what a great way to end a day that
started
 quite differently! Although I wasn?t in life threatening danger
anymore, I
 was still in Yosemite National Park with no ID, money, or belongings.
 Within an hour after calling them,Joseph
  [2] and Chelsea McCoy
 hopped in their car and drove 11 hours from Portland down to where I
was to
 come get me, then turned around and drove back. They are truly the
best
 friends any one could have and went above and beyond the duties of
 friendship. I?m safe and sound now, and so happy to be alive.
Everything
 tastes a little sweeter after having an experience like that, and I
can?t
 begin to explain how grateful I am to still be here. I made some good
 decisions out there and gave myself the best chance of survival by
refusing
 to stop fighting for my life, but honestly, none of that would have
 mattered if I didn?t get as lucky as I did or didn?t receive the
miracle
 which was those Bulldozers that just happened to be plowing a road in
the
 middle of a mountain range that day at that time. Happy to be here,
happy
 to be alive and I?m looking forward to seeing you all!
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 /> 
 List Archives:
 http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
 /> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
 Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

Links:
------
[1] https://www.facebook.com/emilynoyd?fref=mentions&gt;
[2] https://www.facebook.com/joe.mccoy.735?fref=mentions&gt;


From c.tardy at hotmail.fr  Fri Jun  9 15:22:52 2017
From: c.tardy at hotmail.fr (Camille Tardy)
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2017 20:22:52 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
Message-ID: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Marmot Marmot,

We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.

We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.

Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled, learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT", although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".

If every one judges others according to their own personal definition (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days, but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah, screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.

No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person, then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right" enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have considered doing something else.

Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on the trail in the future.

Happy trails,

The Mermaids

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
Date : 08/06/2017 11:17 (GMT-08:00)
? : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Objet : [pct-l] Hitching

I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot tired.
I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal by applying for one.
Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking credit for something not done.
Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is something of which to to be proud.
And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due to snow,fire,avalanche,
poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric Ryback('70)
hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the party being thrown by a trail angel.
Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher completion rates than the AT or CDT.
We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it. That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks. Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality. Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and how to live a life that you value.
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone
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From gwynpen at googlemail.com  Fri Jun  9 23:40:04 2017
From: gwynpen at googlemail.com (gwynpen at googlemail.com)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 06:40:04 +0200
Subject: [pct-l] Pogo pack!?
Message-ID: <67ad0087-7dc0-eb74-73f6-a05e831ddf53@googlemail.com>

Did you see this?

https://asunow.asu.edu/20170414-solutions-pogo-pack-asu-innovator-creates-wearable-trail-tech-%E2%80%94-and-we-put-it-test


cheers

gwynpen

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Sat Jun 10 19:12:40 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:12:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
In-Reply-To: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <000001d2e247$71ccac80$55660580$@verizon.net>

As William Shakespeare said "The Lady doth protest too much, me thinks."  For those of you who know what Shakespeare meant by this, you get the message.

Marmot was exceedingly clear in the post, stating only that those who skip portions of the trail should not apply for the completion medal.   The PCTA is the organization that gives out the medal and the requirements are as follows:
"To receive your [completion] medal or certificate, first walk or ride the entire trail.  Whether your achievement came in sections over twenty years, or all at once in a few months, the medal is yours once you've traveled the entire 2,650 miles."

So Camille, do whatever you want.  No one cares how you go about hiking the trail, whether you skip portions of the trail, whether you stay in a motel every night, or whether your mommy paid for your equipment.   All Marmot was saying is don't diminish what the completion medal stands for by applying for one if you have not yet hiked the entire trail.  

I-Beam  


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Camille Tardy
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:23 PM
To: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>; pct-l @backcountry.net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching

Marmot Marmot,

We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.

We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.

Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled, learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT", although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".

If every one judges others according to their own personal definition (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days, but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah, screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.

No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person, then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right" enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have considered doing something else.

Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on the trail in the future.

Happy trails,

The Mermaids

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> Date : 08/06/2017 11:17 (GMT-08:00) ? : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Objet : [pct-l] Hitching

I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot tired.
I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal by applying for one.
Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking credit for something not done.
Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is something of which to to be proud.
And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due to snow,fire,avalanche, poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric Ryback('70) hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the party being thrown by a trail angel.
Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher completion rates than the AT or CDT.
We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it. That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks. Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality. Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and how to live a life that you value.
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone
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From belcherjd at juno.com  Sat Jun 10 20:44:51 2017
From: belcherjd at juno.com (belcherjd at juno.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 01:44:51 GMT
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
Message-ID: <20170610.184451.22846.0@webmail05.dca.untd.com>

Well put Jim.
'til later
Jon 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Jim Banks" <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
To: "'Camille Tardy'" <c.tardy at hotmail.fr>, "'marmot marmot'" <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>, "'pct-l @backcountry.net'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:12:40 -0700

<As William Shakespeare said "The Lady doth protest too much, me thinks."  For <those of you who know what Shakespeare meant by this, you get the message.

<Marmot was exceedingly clear in the post, stating only that those who skip portions <of the trail should not apply for the completion medal.  ........
<.......the medal is yours once you've traveled the entire 2,650 miles."

<All Marmot was saying is don't diminish what the completion medal stands for by <applying for one if you have not yet hiked the entire trail.  

<I-Beam  


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Camille Tardy
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:23 PM
To: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>; pct-l @backcountry.net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching

Marmot Marmot,

We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.

We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.

Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled, learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT", although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".

If every one judges others according to their own personal definition (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days, but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah, screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.

No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person, then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right" enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have considered doing something else.

Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on the trail in the future.

Happy trails,

The Mermaids

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> Date : 08/06/2017 11:17 (GMT-08:00) ?&euro; : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Objet : [pct-l] Hitching

I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot tired.
I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal by applying for one.
Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking credit for something not done.
Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is something of which to to be proud.
And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due to snow,fire,avalanche, poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric Ryback('70) hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the party being thrown by a trail angel.
Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher completion rates than the AT or CDT.
We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it. That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks. Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality. Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and how to live a life that you value.
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone
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From frederickbaier at gmail.com  Sun Jun 11 20:34:15 2017
From: frederickbaier at gmail.com (frederickbaier at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 15:34:15 -1000
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
In-Reply-To: <000001d2e247$71ccac80$55660580$@verizon.net>
References: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <000001d2e247$71ccac80$55660580$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <593def98.4ddf620a.1f6a4.df93@mx.google.com>

Concur! Succinct and clear.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Jim Banks
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2017 2:12 PM
To: 'Camille Tardy'; 'marmot marmot'; 'pct-l @backcountry.net'
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching

As William Shakespeare said "The Lady doth protest too much, me thinks."  For those of you who know what Shakespeare meant by this, you get the message.

Marmot was exceedingly clear in the post, stating only that those who skip portions of the trail should not apply for the completion medal.   The PCTA is the organization that gives out the medal and the requirements are as follows:
"To receive your [completion] medal or certificate, first walk or ride the entire trail.  Whether your achievement came in sections over twenty years, or all at once in a few months, the medal is yours once you've traveled the entire 2,650 miles."

So Camille, do whatever you want.  No one cares how you go about hiking the trail, whether you skip portions of the trail, whether you stay in a motel every night, or whether your mommy paid for your equipment.   All Marmot was saying is don't diminish what the completion medal stands for by applying for one if you have not yet hiked the entire trail.  

I-Beam  


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Camille Tardy
Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:23 PM
To: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>; pct-l @backcountry.net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching

Marmot Marmot,

We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.

We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.

Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled, learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT", although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".

If every one judges others according to their own personal definition (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days, but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah, screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.

No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person, then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right" enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have considered doing something else.

Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on the trail in the future.

Happy trails,

The Mermaids

-------- Message d'origine --------
De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> Date : 08/06/2017 11:17 (GMT-08:00) ? : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Objet : [pct-l] Hitching

I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot tired.
I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal by applying for one.
Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking credit for something not done.
Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is something of which to to be proud.
And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due to snow,fire,avalanche, poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric Ryback('70) hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the party being thrown by a trail angel.
Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher completion rates than the AT or CDT.
We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it. That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks. Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality. Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and how to live a life that you value.
Marmot



Sent from my iPhone
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From richsteward24 at gmail.com  Sun Jun 11 23:24:33 2017
From: richsteward24 at gmail.com (Rich Steward)
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 21:24:33 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
In-Reply-To: <000001d2e247$71ccac80$55660580$@verizon.net>
References: <AM5PR0202MB25007FF5E20223BEAB291D528DCE0@AM5PR0202MB2500.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
 <000001d2e247$71ccac80$55660580$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CABRHA5E3F2T+FQeveFWdY0YWq604-CZ4VYQethyM+REzMqp7zQ@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder how many people in the past decade have actually hiked the PCT
from end to end.  Perhaps no one.  How long has the endangered species
closure been in effect? Haven't there been fire closures every year, some
closing the trail for multiple years?  In years with lots of snow, aren't
people wandering all over the place, heading in the general direction of
the PCT, but not even close to it?  What about the re-routes off the PCT
around significant blowdowns?  What about the more desirable alternates,
like Eagle Creek, or Crater Lake?  If you take one of those, are you
disqualified from being a thru-hiker?  It seems to me it's nearly
impossible, probably illegal, and possibly undesirable to hike every mile
of the 2650 mile PCT.  So why have such a rigid definition of a thru-hike?


If you want a continuous footpath from Mexico to Canada, walk Interstate 5.


Let people decide whether they feel they qualify as a thru-hiker, based on
the conditions they faced that year.  No one should be judging them.

Proton '16

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:

> As William Shakespeare said "The Lady doth protest too much, me thinks."
> For those of you who know what Shakespeare meant by this, you get the
> message.
>
> Marmot was exceedingly clear in the post, stating only that those who skip
> portions of the trail should not apply for the completion medal.   The PCTA
> is the organization that gives out the medal and the requirements are as
> follows:
> "To receive your [completion] medal or certificate, first walk or ride the
> entire trail.  Whether your achievement came in sections over twenty years,
> or all at once in a few months, the medal is yours once you've traveled the
> entire 2,650 miles."
>
> So Camille, do whatever you want.  No one cares how you go about hiking
> the trail, whether you skip portions of the trail, whether you stay in a
> motel every night, or whether your mommy paid for your equipment.   All
> Marmot was saying is don't diminish what the completion medal stands for by
> applying for one if you have not yet hiked the entire trail.
>
> I-Beam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Camille
> Tardy
> Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:23 PM
> To: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>; pct-l @backcountry.net <
> pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching
>
> Marmot Marmot,
>
> We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to
> us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.
>
> We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about
> what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched
> one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying
> indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when
> he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that
> at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not
> hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.
>
> Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the
> PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every
> mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the
> overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some
> point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not
> care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the
> trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about
> being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or
> two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the
> end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled,
> learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has
> real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT",
> although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of
> it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is
> actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".
>
> If every one judges others according to their own personal definition
> (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then
> nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels
> and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would
> considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss
> C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked
> food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D
> would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years
> for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every
> time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in
> her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the
> best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days,
> but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah,
> screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make
> both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.
>
> No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a
> task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on
> the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off
> trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You
> hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what
> rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're
> taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And
> because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person,
> then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right"
> enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have
> considered doing something else.
>
> Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance
> of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of
> it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest
> people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if
> they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for
> them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you
> obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more
> interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the
> PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they
> believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies
> just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it
> matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down
> others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out
> the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the
> experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's
> just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on
> the trail in the future.
>
> Happy trails,
>
> The Mermaids
>
> -------- Message d'origine --------
> De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> Date : 08/06/2017 11:17
> (GMT-08:00) ? : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Objet :
> [pct-l] Hitching
>
> I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that
> hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that
> complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous
> footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on
> line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot
> tired.
> I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal
> by applying for one.
> Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking
> credit for something not done.
> Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has
> enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is
> something of which to to be proud.
> And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor
> system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of
> many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal
> reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
> The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due
> to snow,fire,avalanche, poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due
> to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route
> on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever
> the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through
> Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
> The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of
> the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn
> ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric
> Ryback('70) hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the
> party being thrown by a trail angel.
> Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then
> ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much
> as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
> Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I
> believe ,75  started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That
> rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If
> I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I
> didn't have the snow skills.  I would have just had to hurt about it and
> come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over
> again.  I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher
> completion rates than the AT or CDT.
> We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people
> who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it.
> That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
> Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the
> attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all
> or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall
> short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was
> rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It
> means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the
> OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks.
> Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I
> had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality.
> Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our
> long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in
> walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and
> how to live a life that you value.
> Marmot
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From timpnye at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 09:42:40 2017
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 07:42:40 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hitching
Message-ID: <593ea876.c50c620a.93514.b65f@mx.google.com>

The amount of entitlement on display on this forum is amazing to me. Yes, there are closures every almost every year, but alternatives detours are available, but official and unofficial.
The analogy to me as a veteran is stolen valor. Those individuals who, whether they served or not, appropriate for themselves an accomplishment they wish they had attained and by which they define themselves or by which seek to attain the regard of others. Military service is self defined; military decorations are awarded for achievements the accomplishment of which are recognized by their fellows not by their own self regard.
This is not an accomplishment that is self defined. If I plan to hike the PACT, but a personal tragedy intervenes, do I get to claim a medal? Or, alternatively, if I skip the Sierra from Kennedy Meadows to Old Station do I get to claim a meadow? I mean, those mountains look steep! Does Cheryl Strayed get a medal for her thousand miles? Where is the dividing line? This is a reflection of the need for the rule of law for something whose standard is set by those awarding and recognizing the achievement
I recognize the irony that the medal was founded and paid for by Eric Ryback whose own hike was the subject of much controversy.?
-------- Original message --------From: Rich Steward <richsteward24 at gmail.com> Date: 6/11/17  9:24 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> Cc: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching 
I wonder how many people in the past decade have actually hiked the PCT
from end to end.? Perhaps no one.? How long has the endangered species
closure been in effect? Haven't there been fire closures every year, some
closing the trail for multiple years?? In years with lots of snow, aren't
people wandering all over the place, heading in the general direction of
the PCT, but not even close to it?? What about the re-routes off the PCT
around significant blowdowns?? What about the more desirable alternates,
like Eagle Creek, or Crater Lake?? If you take one of those, are you
disqualified from being a thru-hiker?? It seems to me it's nearly
impossible, probably illegal, and possibly undesirable to hike every mile
of the 2650 mile PCT.? So why have such a rigid definition of a thru-hike?


If you want a continuous footpath from Mexico to Canada, walk Interstate 5.


Let people decide whether they feel they qualify as a thru-hiker, based on
the conditions they faced that year.? No one should be judging them.

Proton '16

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:12 PM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:

> As William Shakespeare said "The Lady doth protest too much, me thinks."
> For those of you who know what Shakespeare meant by this, you get the
> message.
>
> Marmot was exceedingly clear in the post, stating only that those who skip
> portions of the trail should not apply for the completion medal.?? The PCTA
> is the organization that gives out the medal and the requirements are as
> follows:
> "To receive your [completion] medal or certificate, first walk or ride the
> entire trail.? Whether your achievement came in sections over twenty years,
> or all at once in a few months, the medal is yours once you've traveled the
> entire 2,650 miles."
>
> So Camille, do whatever you want.? No one cares how you go about hiking
> the trail, whether you skip portions of the trail, whether you stay in a
> motel every night, or whether your mommy paid for your equipment.?? All
> Marmot was saying is don't diminish what the completion medal stands for by
> applying for one if you have not yet hiked the entire trail.
>
> I-Beam
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Camille
> Tardy
> Sent: Friday, June 9, 2017 1:23 PM
> To: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>; pct-l @backcountry.net <
> pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hitching
>
> Marmot Marmot,
>
> We understand your point, and yet in a way it sounds very patronizing to
> us, which is actually what saddens us the most about the trail.
>
> We agree with you in that each hiker should be humble and honest about
> what they did and what they didn't do. Let's imagine one person who hitched
> one small section of the trail because of an injury. That would be lying
> indeed if that person claimed "I have hiked every mile of the trail" when
> he/she did not. But if that person is honest about it, then your claim that
> at the end of the day, when he/she gets to Manning Park, he/she has not
> hiked the PCT? That seems very snobby and unfair in our eyes.
>
> Your message raises the ever-debated question of what it is to hike the
> PCT. For you, it seems to be principally (if not only) about hiking every
> mile of it in the purist way. But for Mr X, it will be more about the
> overall experience of it, no matter if he has to skip 30 miles at some
> point. For Mr W, it will be all about the human relations, and he will not
> care if he has to skip 20 miles two or three times to catch up with the
> trail friends that give his hike a meaning. For Miss Y, it will be about
> being as lost in the wild as she can, even if that means skipping one or
> two road sections that give her no joy nor pleasure whatsoever. But at the
> end of the day, these people will all have ached, blistered, marvelled,
> learnt, and had an experience of the PCT from Mexico to Canada that has
> real meaning for them. In our eyes they will all have "hiked the PCT",
> although they will not necessarily all have "hiked every single mile of
> it". Saying "I have hiked the PCT" is not the same thing as saying (and is
> actually so much more than saying) "I have hiked every mile of the PCT".
>
> If every one judges others according to their own personal definition
> (which seems like a big waste of time in the first place, but anyway), then
> nobody is considered as hiking the PCT anymore. Mr. A is staying in motels
> and eating in fancy restaurants every time he hits a town? Mr B would
> considered he has it too easy and is not hiking the PCT the right way. Miss
> C had her parents pay for all her gear and send her only nicely home-cooked
> food in every town so she never has to resupply with crap food? Miss D
> would feel very frustrated about it as she saved money for the last 3 years
> for this hike and yet she still has to choose the cheapest noodles every
> time she resupplies. Miss C is not worth being considered a real hiker in
> her eyes. Mister E is on an tight visa-schedule and would like to make the
> best of his time in the US to go visit family in Los Angeles for 5 days,
> but that will mean he will have to skip the next 5-day trail-section. Ah,
> screw international people, Mr F thinks! Too bad for him if he can't make
> both, he's out of the game. Etc, etc.
>
> No, the PCT is not a "not so complicated but clear task". It's not even a
> task for that matter. We are sick of seeing so many judgmental hikers on
> the trail, who will take every opportunity to say to others: "You went off
> trail for 5 days?! Is that even allowed?" Allowed by whom, exactly? "You
> hitched to the supermarket? Oh that's cheating." Cheating according to what
> rules? "You're skipping the Sierras and going back to it later? You're
> taking the easy way, that does not really classify as thru-hiking." And
> because that doesn't classify as thru-hiking in the head of that person,
> then everybody is made to feel like a big bag of crap for not being "right"
> enough. If people want a competition kind of thing, they should have
> considered doing something else.
>
> Again, we insist on the fact that we agree with you about the importance
> of honesty and humility. No, it's not okay to say you hiked every mile of
> it when you didn't. But likewise, it's not okay to take away from honest
> people the fact that yes, they did hike the PCT in their own way even if
> they skipped some 25 miles at some point, just because what has meaning for
> them obviously doesn't have meaning for you, and what has meaning for you
> obviously doesn't have as much meaning for them. It would be far more
> interesting to ask each person what they mean when they say "I hiked the
> PCT" to understand what it meant for them in the first place and how they
> believe they achieved that goal, than holding them accountable of big lies
> just because everybody's definition and interpretation differ. But if it
> matters most for some people to impose their views and try to bring down
> others for not living up to their high standards instead of bringing out
> the best of them discussing constructively why we are all having the
> experience of a lifetime in different ways while hiking the PCT, then it's
> just distressingly sad, and hopefully it does not become the major trend on
> the trail in the future.
>
> Happy trails,
>
> The Mermaids
>
> -------- Message d'origine --------
> De : marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com> Date : 08/06/2017 11:17
> (GMT-08:00) ? : "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Objet :
> [pct-l] Hitching
>
> I would have never thought that it would have become normalized that
> hitching part of the trail was "hiking the PCT". The task is not that
> complicated (difficult and long and arduous) but clear. A continuous
> footpath along the PCT with reasonable alternatives. The conversations on
> line talk about huge numbers of hikers hitching when they are bored,hot
> tired.
> I certainly hope that these hikers don't diminish the finishing PCT metal
> by applying for one.
> Definitely "hike your own hike" but that does not include a lie or taking
> credit for something not done.
> Maybe you can practice saying "I hiked part or most of the PCT". That has
> enormous value and is impressive and also the truth. That to me is
> something of which to to be proud.
> And please don't ever apply for a Triple Crown---given out on the honor
> system ---if you have skipped or hitched parts of the trails. I know of
> many hikers who had to skip parts of the trails due to injury or personal
> reasons who went back and did those skipped sections.
> The trails have been on roads in the past and sometimes return to them due
> to snow,fire,avalanche, poodle dog bush grizzle bear etc etc. Sometimes due
> to injury the only way to stay on the trail is to find an alternative route
> on roads. That can mean limping and healing all at the same time. What ever
> the yearly problem is. Then the road becomes the trail. The road through
> Agua Dulce is the trail. It's part of the experience.
> The walk along the aqueduct is the trail. Yes it's hot ---that is part of
> the trail. Do you really think that Ravensong('76)Jean Ella('76) Lynn
> ('76)or the those amazing guys from '77 or Martin Papendick('52) Eric
> Ryback('70) hitched because they were bored, lonely or wanted to get to the
> party being thrown by a trail angel.
> Don't put an asterisk on your hike unless,of course, you want one. Then
> ,by all means make your own choices and be honest about it. Doing as much
> as you can has its own value and its own lessons.
> Not everyone will finish the trail. The first time I did the PCT ,I
> believe ,75? started. We think that 25 finished the complete trail. That
> rate of completion has stayed pretty standard except in high snow years. If
> I had done the trail in '93 or '95 I most likely would not have finished. I
> didn't have the snow skills.? I would have just had to hurt about it and
> come back and try again. Quit my job,come down from Canada and start over
> again.? I was just lucky to choose '94. PCT has always had higher
> completion rates than the AT or CDT.
> We now have a net work of people who help the hikers. It means that people
> who never dreamed they could hike the PCT will go out there and try it.
> That's fantastic. Many of those people will hike large sections.
> Strider used to give a speech at the KO taking about valuing just the
> attempt to do the trail. I know that all of us who have done the trail (all
> or parts of it)cheer you all on. And we share your tears when you fall
> short of what you imagined you wanted to do. I have a trail that I was
> rescued from that will always remain unfinished. That's on purpose. It
> means something of value to me to leave it that way. I hiked parts of the
> OCT because my hiking partner refused to hike a few of the road walks.
> Because I wanted to stay together I chose to live with that feeling that I
> had not done the whole trail. It felt bad but it is reality.
> Disappointments can be part of what the trail gives to you. I believe our
> long trails can be our replacement for what older cultures had in
> walkabouts or quests. A way of finding out who you are, what you want and
> how to live a life that you value.
> Marmot
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
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From pctl at oakapple.net  Mon Jun 12 10:16:18 2017
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 08:16:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] trail conditions - low elevation O/P
Message-ID: <201706121516.v5CFGHQw005187@server-f.oakapple.net>


I'm looking for a few low-elevation days for the coming hot weekend,
where I haven't been recently,
and where I can avoid steep snow slopes and raging torrents.

Section O/P looks good to me, in particular the part from McCloud River
to Castle Crags Dog Trail... altitudes 2000-5000', plenty of water
and shade.      Plenty of poison oak, and probably mosquitos
and down trees too.

The oft-maligned Section O has its points of attraction.
When I did this part over July 4 in 2005, a normal snow year, it was fine
except for some anxious snow slopes west of Mushroom Rock.
http://pcnst.oakapple.net/photo/nc-pct/o/
I'm not going to try that this year, though I'd have liked to connect with
my northernmost point a few years ago at Peavine Creek.

There doesn't seem to be any 2017 O/P information at pcta.org
or pctwater.com.     Anybody have any current local info?
It's too early for through-hikers.

I also thought about Quincy-LaPorte Rd to Belden, which goes low over
the Feather River but also up to nearly 7000' which I suspect would be
pretty snowy still.

I've done Hat Creek Rim recently, but it would be a good option otherwise.
  

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 12 10:55:33 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 15:55:33 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Discussion on hitching and the finishing medal
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB02460A1D8B60315FFE38C739C8CD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

To me this whole conversation is useful. All the points of view are valuable. It's part of the greater conversation that has been started about trail behavior.  See the last ALDHAWEST (spring?)gazette for more of that. No one wants damage done to the trail or the hike experience.  No one wants the trip to turn into "Whatever!"--that juvenile retort to any comment on behavior 
It used to be the norm to place a rock on the trail when you went to resupply---So that you didn't miss one inch. Because that was part of the exciting intent of a long hike. Hikers used to search for their footprints after camping,so that they could have a connected path. Maybe the trail(including alternatives) could be thought of as the point of being out there. Not just how fast you can get to town. Many people who have no experience,never had a pack on their back have done the long trails. But they actually did them --whether in one year or over time. I'm most impressed by the couple who I believe finished in 2014 who took 20years to hike the PCT. 
I'm glad that the controversy over Eric's hike has finally been put to rest. The ride was back north to the trail from resupply. He was hiking south. Uninformed people questioned his hike.  

It is so seductive when you are tired,lonely,sore,
around a lot of people who are pressuring you to"come on take a 
ride" to give in and do it. The trail is difficult for many reasons. 
I see the trails changing lives. It certainly changed mine. 
Remember finishing medal and the Triple crown are given out on the honor system
Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

From veselyjames at gmail.com  Mon Jun 12 11:03:07 2017
From: veselyjames at gmail.com (James Vesely)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 09:03:07 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] End of PCT Hike
In-Reply-To: <CAH8m_atew3tgLWZoKig=SFOq3wrehvC2qve95inFCcU5ZNXy7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D4881748-D350-4DB7-9955-B588536258A3@att.net>
 <BY2PR20MB024604E217DD6B2C4491971FC8CF0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH8m_atew3tgLWZoKig=SFOq3wrehvC2qve95inFCcU5ZNXy7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMxQpsy3X11_dVpx5QnPoF-j6LuQjwYVT7oqcGDiUocTG+Ye6A@mail.gmail.com>

I read this as well.  I wonder what river he was crossing?  It sounds like
he was in Lyell Canyon. He did not mention going over Donohue.

Jim

On Jun 10, 2017 6:52 AM, "Scott Diamond" <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
wrote:

> A friend forwarded this to me by e-mail
>
>   - Rover
>
>
> My friend hiking the Pacific Crest Trail ended his hike in dramatic
> fashion.
>
> I pulled his near-death story from Facebook ?.
>
>
>
> For those of you that have been following along, unfortunately my Pacific
> Crest Trail journey has come to an abrupt and very dangerous end, where I
> can say I am truly lucky and grateful to be alive. Here?s what happened.
>
> At about 1,000 miles into my hike I was hiking alone in the Sierra Nevada
> Mountains when I came across a particularly treacherous river crossing. The
> flow was strong and the water was past my waist. As I was fording the river
> my footing gave way under a lose rock and I was swept into the current. I
> began rushing towards a waterfall and couldn?t swim out with my 60 lb pack
> on so I ditched the pack and was able to swim out of the river before I hit
> the waterfall and rocks. Unfortunately my pack and all of my belongings are
> lost forever in the river and probably washed up somewhere in Southern
> California now, but I didn?t drown so it was worth it. The realization of
> being stranded in the middle of nowhere, alone, in snow covered mountains
> with nothing but the clothes I was wearing on my back quickly settled in.
>
> Given no one knew I was in trouble, and there was so much snow this year
> there was no trail to follow, the only way I would survive was by
> backtracking my own footprints in the snow for 15 miles to try and get to a
> remote shelter I stayed at the night before, where I could wait and hope
> for the slim chance someone would come by in the next few days. I made it
> back 7 of the 15 miles before nightfall, which brought sub-freezing temps,
> while I had no shelter and wet, cold clothes. It was cold enough where if I
> fell asleep I probably wouldn?t wake back up, so I had to do jumping jacks
> and run in circles all night to keep from freezing to death.
>
> Once the sun came up I started tracking my day old prints again.
> Unfortunately if I were to lose my tracks, or if a snow storm were to roll
> in, I would lose all chances being able to navigate back and of survival.
> Twice I did lose those tracks however, and leaving it up to fate I decided
> to follow some deer and coyote tracks I came across, which miraculously
> lead me straight to my tracks both times. Luckily the weather was clear,
> and even though I had lost my glasses in the river, I was able to track
> myself back 14 of the 15 miles I had done the day before. At this point the
> sun had melted away the rest of my prints. I knew I was within a mile or
> two of the shelter I hoped to find, but I had no idea which direction to
> go, and no tools to help navigate (My map, compass, phone, etc. were all
> lost to the river). After climbing up 3 different mountains that I thought
> may be the right way, I came back down to the last track I could find and
> began losing hope, realizing that I was probably going to die out there. I
> wouldn?t be able to last another night in the freezing weather without food
> or sleep, and no one knew I was in trouble - there would be no rescue or
> rangers looking for me - I was officially lost in the mountains without any
> leads.
>
> Then I got lucky. As I came to terms with my probable death by freezing or
> eventual starvation, I heard the humming of machinery. Then the classic
> backup beeping noise you hear from big vehicles! There was people somewhere
> here in the middle of nowhere! My heart jumped and adrenaline shot through
> my veins. That day, at that hour happened to be the time that the state
> decided to send some giant bulldozers to start plowing the back country
> road that runs through the mountains and near where I was, although it was
> covered by 10 ft of snow and still was closed. I saw the trucks emerging
> out of a valley miles away across a snow plain and past the Tuolumne River.
> I needed to get over to them and make sure they saw me before they left. I
> sprinted across the plain and dove into the giant river and began swimming
> across. Somehow I swam through the current and got to the other side. The
> water was freezing, I definitely had hypothermia. I ran up to the
> bulldozer, finally realizing I wasn?t going to die at 25 in the middle of
> nowhere in the mountains! I got a ride in the giant bulldozer for miles out
> of the mountains and got to a ranger station. I made friends with the
> Yosemite Rangers and ended up staying with them that night where we
> celebrated the weekend and my unlikely survival.
>
> Thank you Emily Noyd <https://www.facebook.com/emilynoyd?fref=mentions>
> for
> the hospitality and kindness, what a great way to end a day that started
> quite differently! Although I wasn?t in life threatening danger anymore, I
> was still in Yosemite National Park with no ID, money, or belongings.
> Within an hour after calling them,Joseph
> <https://www.facebook.com/joe.mccoy.735?fref=mentions> and Chelsea McCoy
> hopped in their car and drove 11 hours from Portland down to where I was to
> come get me, then turned around and drove back. They are truly the best
> friends any one could have and went above and beyond the duties of
> friendship. I?m safe and sound now, and so happy to be alive. Everything
> tastes a little sweeter after having an experience like that, and I can?t
> begin to explain how grateful I am to still be here. I made some good
> decisions out there and gave myself the best chance of survival by refusing
> to stop fighting for my life, but honestly, none of that would have
> mattered if I didn?t get as lucky as I did or didn?t receive the miracle
> which was those Bulldozers that just happened to be plowing a road in the
> middle of a mountain range that day at that time. Happy to be here, happy
> to be alive and I?m looking forward to seeing you all!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon Jun 12 13:03:13 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 18:03:13 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Even the Bears Are Having Problems
Message-ID: <90155799da1941078e21e034bca1f0b5@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

In case you have not seen it yet, here is a Yosemite bear making an unwise decision in his stream crossing: http://www.grindtv.com/wildlife/bear-in-yosemite-accidentally-sucked-down-waterfall-video/#S8kofH7DIQ9qPRj4.97<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.grindtv.com_wildlife_bear-2Din-2Dyosemite-2Daccidentally-2Dsucked-2Ddown-2Dwaterfall-2Dvideo_-23S8kofH7DIQ9qPRj4.97&d=DQMGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=j4He2IqW4mxGnNNg_TrEmm5QYroX_5fPMYDZiuxnLM8&m=R6ARE59_gNjzOj_SrfW3z5IPRcXzABwTlL3D-khpsVs&s=sYz6O-j7oW3tQ8CzttRUjagbDSFhQAY1IyfQVtqHC-I&e=>


Herb

From susan at newstories.org  Mon Jun 12 12:32:00 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 10:32:00 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Belden to Old Station
In-Reply-To: <X2w11v00H1Jzfl8012w1Vh@charter.net>
References: <X2w11v00H1Jzfl8012w1Vh@charter.net>
Message-ID: <CF75DC32-6581-487C-840F-71A9112D5138@newstories.org>

Does anyone know anything about the 90 miles of Section N from Belden to Old Station thru Lassen?  Elevation gets to 7000 at Frog Mountain Trail, then back to nearly 7200 at Butte Point Trail and then 7600 at Butt Mountain Trail.  Just talked to the Lassen Park ranger and he said there?s some snow on the PCT in the park but some hikers have already been through, and there?s not too many downed trees.  He doesn?t know anything about the rest of the trail.

I?m a section hiker who?s walked the PCT from Old Station to Manning Provincial Park and was hoping to get this section done next, starting on June 20, but don?t want to be foolish.  I?m taking a friend who?s done some other northern CA sections with me.  Should we be using micro-spikes on our trail runners?  Do we need ax ices?  Or should we just not do this section at this time?  (We can?t go later.)

?Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine 

  

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Mon Jun 12 14:25:24 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 12:25:24 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Discussion on hitching and the finishing medal
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB02460A1D8B60315FFE38C739C8CD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB02460A1D8B60315FFE38C739C8CD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1Nzk2Pa-ZiVXRBWSOKdpCvPv_geeJxEfmBA6q3zNfKTMr1w@mail.gmail.com>

The discussion of "trail purity" is very old, can be very nasty and is
super common on the AT.

As more people hike the PCT you will see more of it here.

Make sure you walk by every white blaze.

HYOH

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Mon Jun 12 15:17:14 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2017 20:17:14 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Belden to Old Station
In-Reply-To: <CF75DC32-6581-487C-840F-71A9112D5138@newstories.org>
References: <X2w11v00H1Jzfl8012w1Vh@charter.net>
 <CF75DC32-6581-487C-840F-71A9112D5138@newstories.org>
Message-ID: <5d496600d9b54d169ce85a25f7a4168f@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

I don?t have current info, but for what is it worth, I hiked SB last year in mid/late June from Castle Crags to Chester. The Lassen section had snow, but it does not have steep passes with nerve-jangling traverses that would demand an ice axe. I didn't need traction devices, but of course way less snow last year. I think the main issue will be navigation. Even in last year's relatively light snow we had to hunt and peck for the trail for a few miles when the trail goes through a thick forest. I do recall a water crossing that was harder to do than it looked somewhere near Drakesbad.

By the way, if you can manage it in your schedule try to have a dinner or breakfast at Drakesbad. We had a fantastic breakfast out on the patio and they were very hiker friendly. You have to make reservations, which complicates the logistics, but if you stay in the campground just up the dirt road and shoot over to the resort you might be able to make the list. People were telling me for a 100 miles about how great the food was, and the resort did not disappoint. I think you can buy a shower there but it might be limited to certain times in the day. Really pretty place--I intend to go back there sometime and stay as a guest. Note, however there is no store to resupply from or buy snacks.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:32 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] Belden to Old Station

Does anyone know anything about the 90 miles of Section N from Belden to Old Station thru Lassen?  Elevation gets to 7000 at Frog Mountain Trail, then back to nearly 7200 at Butte Point Trail and then 7600 at Butt Mountain Trail.  Just talked to the Lassen Park ranger and he said there?s some snow on the PCT in the park but some hikers have already been through, and there?s not too many downed trees.  He doesn?t know anything about the rest of the trail.

I?m a section hiker who?s walked the PCT from Old Station to Manning Provincial Park and was hoping to get this section done next, starting on June 20, but don?t want to be foolish.  I?m taking a friend who?s done some other northern CA sections with me.  Should we be using micro-spikes on our trail runners?  Do we need ax ices?  Or should we just not do this section at this time?  (We can?t go later.)

?Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine 

  
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From susan at newstories.org  Wed Jun 14 12:05:21 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 10:05:21 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] need ride from Old Station to Belden on June 20
Message-ID: <7401F7C3-AD0D-4184-B148-DBD985322E84@newstories.org>

For anyone interested, I just heard from the manager at Drakesbad that 5 hikers a day are coming thru their place (Warner Valley in Section N).  The hikers have told her that the trail is accessible but still has snow patches at higher elevations.

We plan to leave our vehicle in Old Station, but need a ride from there to Belden midday next Tuesday, June 20.  Any suggestions?  Or has anyone had any success in hitchhiking from Old Station to Belden?

?Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine 

From timpnye at gmail.com  Wed Jun 14 15:26:25 2017
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 13:26:25 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] need ride from Old Station to Belden on June 20
Message-ID: <59419c02.c384630a.e1454.36cf@mx.google.com>

My experience hitching out of Old Station to Chester was that it was a death hitch. I walked up to the main intersection past JJ's. After a full afternoon a car stopped with a prof from Cal and his friend. You want a ride as far as the county road that splits off to the right towards town. The professor's bon homie quickly wore off with distance and as the sun set. I was cut loose at a rest stop as darkness fell. There was no traffic at the rest stop which was closed. A pickup eventually pulled in, by mistake, and I pleaded go mercy. Bless those two. They gave me a ride to Chester advising the county road is little traveled and doubtless would have been a road walk the next morning. If I could have found it.
I've had more success hitching from Belden to Chester. That took three rides, but no more than an hour or so between them. I wouldn't want to hitch from Chester to Old Station for obvious reasons.
Piper's Mom has given me a ride a couple of times; once to Old Station and once to Belden, but it's a long way to either from Chester.
Sorry I can't provide more cheery news.
-------- Original message --------From: Susan Virnig <susan at newstories.org> Date: 6/14/17  10:05 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: "<Pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] need ride from Old Station to Belden on June 20 
For anyone interested, I just heard from the manager at Drakesbad that 5 hikers a day are coming thru their place (Warner Valley in Section N).? The hikers have told her that the trail is accessible but still has snow patches at higher elevations.

We plan to leave our vehicle in Old Station, but need a ride from there to Belden midday next Tuesday, June 20.? Any suggestions?? Or has anyone had any success in hitchhiking from Old Station to Belden?

?Susan from Spokane aka Sunshine 
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From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Thu Jun 15 00:34:03 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Marcus Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 22:34:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
Message-ID: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>

Hi PCT-L,

I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I hiked
the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I received, so I
wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail magic myself.
I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other
amenities to the hikers who pass by.

I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be in
the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, two
weeks later.

I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
angeling:

- Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the
pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?

- Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that
section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th
last year, for example.

- Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and will
have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest Area?
Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south of
Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).

- Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected
things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things hikers
needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they didn't need,
etc.

- Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?

I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has
long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of them
of course.  Any suggestions/comments?

Edible:
- Clean water
- Beer, especially heavy beer
- Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
- Hot non-instant coffee
- Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
- Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
- Home-made chocolate chip cookies
- Meat of some kind that's not jerky

Non-Edible:
- Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic station
- Charging station
- A garbage can
- Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and
disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets,
ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove fuel,
duck tape...
- If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail
intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half a
mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).

Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail
magicians out there...

  -=Town Food

From melaniekclarke at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 01:23:05 2017
From: melaniekclarke at gmail.com (Melanie Clarke)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:23:05 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <CAKeeMLfayMG-bGTR9y763UhSHTdVOy4YOGNCG6SaHcF7tsZbUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Marcus,

It appears that many, maybe most hikers are skipping the Sierras until
August or so. I have 2 friends in Lone Pine right now, making plans to jump
ahead to Truckee or Donner Pass. So it might be hard to predict where the
herd will be July 15th.

You said there was a confusing trail intersection near highway 80? Since
that is where they are heading, can you give me more details on that? I'm
still a section hiker and haven't done that portion yet.

Diet Plan

On Jun 14, 2017 10:34 PM, "Marcus Schwartz" <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:

> Hi PCT-L,
>
> I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I hiked
> the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I received, so I
> wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail magic myself.
> I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other
> amenities to the hikers who pass by.
>
> I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
> Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be in
> the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, two
> weeks later.
>
> I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
> angeling:
>
> - Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the
> pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?
>
> - Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that
> section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th
> last year, for example.
>
> - Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and will
> have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest Area?
> Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south of
> Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).
>
> - Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected
> things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things hikers
> needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they didn't need,
> etc.
>
> - Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?
>
> I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has
> long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
> Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of them
> of course.  Any suggestions/comments?
>
> Edible:
> - Clean water
> - Beer, especially heavy beer
> - Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
> - Hot non-instant coffee
> - Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
> - Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
> - Home-made chocolate chip cookies
> - Meat of some kind that's not jerky
>
> Non-Edible:
> - Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic station
> - Charging station
> - A garbage can
> - Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and
> disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets,
> ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove fuel,
> duck tape...
> - If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail
> intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half a
> mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).
>
> Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail
> magicians out there...
>
>  -=Town Food
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Thu Jun 15 01:44:24 2017
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Marcus Schwartz)
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:44:24 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <CAKeeMLfayMG-bGTR9y763UhSHTdVOy4YOGNCG6SaHcF7tsZbUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
 <CAKeeMLfayMG-bGTR9y763UhSHTdVOy4YOGNCG6SaHcF7tsZbUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <348ad5e3-7978-46ea-7d49-0b22bad98b02@marcusschwartz.com>

It's hard to explain the junction without a diagram, but the main point 
of confusion is that the Westbound and Eastbound rest areas on I-80 are 
not connected to each other.  You can't walk across the freeway.

So, there are separate turn-offs from the PCT depending on which way you 
want to hitch.  Also, it's surprisingly far between the rest areas by 
trail (about a half-mile if I recall), even though they're right across 
the freeway from one another.

Lots of people want to hitch west, and take the first turn off ("first" 
being the more southerly one) to the rest stop, but the first one goes 
to the eastbound rest stop.  So lots of people go the wrong way.  If I 
recall, the sign at the first junction is unclear about which rest stop 
it goes to.

Also confusing, if you're going to the eastbound rest stop:  There are 
several junctions after you've left the PCT, and you can get to either 
the I-80 rest stop or a less-used trailhead parking lot that's not on 
the freeway (Google Maps calls it the "Donner Summit California State 
Snopark", on Bunny Hill Drive).

In short, if you're trying to head west on I-80, go under the freeway 
before you exit the PCT.  If you're trying to head east, take the 
earlier turn-off, and take the first right turn after that.

  -=Marcus

On 06/14/2017 11:23 PM, Melanie Clarke wrote:
> Hello Marcus,
>
> It appears that many, maybe most hikers are skipping the Sierras until
> August or so. I have 2 friends in Lone Pine right now, making plans to
> jump ahead to Truckee or Donner Pass. So it might be hard to predict
> where the herd will be July 15th.
>
> You said there was a confusing trail intersection near highway 80? Since
> that is where they are heading, can you give me more details on that?
> I'm still a section hiker and haven't done that portion yet.
>
> Diet Plan
>
> On Jun 14, 2017 10:34 PM, "Marcus Schwartz" <pctl at marcusschwartz.com
> <mailto:pctl at marcusschwartz.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi PCT-L,
>
>     I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I hiked
>     the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I received, so I
>     wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail magic myself.
>     I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other
>     amenities to the hikers who pass by.
>
>     I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
>     Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be in
>     the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, two
>     weeks later.
>
>     I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
>     angeling:
>
>     - Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the
>     pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?
>
>     - Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that
>     section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th
>     last year, for example.
>
>     - Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and will
>     have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest Area?
>     Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south of
>     Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).
>
>     - Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected
>     things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things hikers
>     needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they didn't need,
>     etc.
>
>     - Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?
>
>     I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has
>     long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
>     Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of them
>     of course.  Any suggestions/comments?
>
>     Edible:
>     - Clean water
>     - Beer, especially heavy beer
>     - Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
>     - Hot non-instant coffee
>     - Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
>     - Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
>     - Home-made chocolate chip cookies
>     - Meat of some kind that's not jerky
>
>     Non-Edible:
>     - Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic station
>     - Charging station
>     - A garbage can
>     - Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and
>     disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets,
>     ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove fuel,
>     duck tape...
>     - If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail
>     intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half a
>     mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).
>
>     Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail
>     magicians out there...
>
>      -=Town Food
>     _______________________________________________
>     Pct-L mailing list
>     Pct-L at backcountry.net <mailto:Pct-L at backcountry.net>
>     To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>     http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>     <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
>
>     List Archives:
>     http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>     <http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/>
>     All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>     Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 06:37:11 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:37:11 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <57714908-BC5A-4B17-9EEA-818AF2F6BA50@gmail.com>

You are such a cool person....

Taking trash from them would be awesome, diaper wipes maybe?
When I started off I wanted savory things but after a while all I wanted was sweet stuff, like muffins?
Kool Aid
COKE (a cola)

Thanks for doing this! 
GoGo


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 15, 2017, at 12:34 AM, Marcus Schwartz <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi PCT-L,
> 
> I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I hiked
> the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I received, so I
> wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail magic myself.
> I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other
> amenities to the hikers who pass by.
> 
> I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
> Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be in
> the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, two
> weeks later.
> 
> I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
> angeling:
> 
> - Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the
> pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?
> 
> - Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that
> section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th
> last year, for example.
> 
> - Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and will
> have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest Area?
> Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south of
> Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).
> 
> - Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected
> things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things hikers
> needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they didn't need,
> etc.
> 
> - Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?
> 
> I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has
> long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
> Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of them
> of course.  Any suggestions/comments?
> 
> Edible:
> - Clean water
> - Beer, especially heavy beer
> - Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
> - Hot non-instant coffee
> - Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
> - Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
> - Home-made chocolate chip cookies
> - Meat of some kind that's not jerky
> 
> Non-Edible:
> - Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic station
> - Charging station
> - A garbage can
> - Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and
> disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets,
> ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove fuel,
> duck tape...
> - If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail
> intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half a
> mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).
> 
> Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail
> magicians out there...
> 
> -=Town Food
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From zog7140 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 08:44:18 2017
From: zog7140 at gmail.com (Zog7140@gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:44:18 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <AB3C8E55-8494-4E70-B564-516DB5BF49D7@gmail.com>

Two additional possible set up locations: Barker Pass (via surface streets on west side of Lake Tahoe or Highway 40 at Truckee
One additional food consideration: cereal with cream or milk. 


God Bless America! 

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Marcus Schwartz <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi PCT-L,
> 
> I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I hiked
> the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I received, so I
> wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail magic myself.
> I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other
> amenities to the hikers who pass by.
> 
> I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
> Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be in
> the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, two
> weeks later.
> 
> I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
> angeling:
> 
> - Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the
> pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?
> 
> - Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that
> section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th
> last year, for example.
> 
> - Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and will
> have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest Area?
> Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south of
> Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).
> 
> - Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected
> things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things hikers
> needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they didn't need,
> etc.
> 
> - Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?
> 
> I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has
> long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
> Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of them
> of course.  Any suggestions/comments?
> 
> Edible:
> - Clean water
> - Beer, especially heavy beer
> - Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
> - Hot non-instant coffee
> - Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
> - Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
> - Home-made chocolate chip cookies
> - Meat of some kind that's not jerky
> 
> Non-Edible:
> - Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic station
> - Charging station
> - A garbage can
> - Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and
> disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets,
> ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove fuel,
> duck tape...
> - If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail
> intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half a
> mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).
> 
> Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail
> magicians out there...
> 
> -=Town Food
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Thu Jun 15 09:06:14 2017
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:06:14 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <348ad5e3-7978-46ea-7d49-0b22bad98b02@marcusschwartz.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
 <CAKeeMLfayMG-bGTR9y763UhSHTdVOy4YOGNCG6SaHcF7tsZbUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <348ad5e3-7978-46ea-7d49-0b22bad98b02@marcusschwartz.com>
Message-ID: <4b77fe2b576e4a9daf4ff988ec0e0b34@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

For Section hikers--I intended to leave my car at the Donner Summit California Snopark referenced below. When I arrived I founds signs indicating I needed a parking pass to leave a vehicle there--which created a logistics issue since I was there pre-dawn and had to catch transportation to Chester for my hike back to Donner Summit. Permits can be acquired in sporting shops in Truckee.

Note that there is long-term parking available for free at the Amtrak station in Truckee. One can hitch or take a cab to the Donner trailhead from there, maybe 8-10 miles.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Marcus Schwartz
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 11:44 PM
To: Melanie Clarke
Cc: PCT MailingList
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice

It's hard to explain the junction without a diagram, but the main point of confusion is that the Westbound and Eastbound rest areas on I-80 are not connected to each other.  You can't walk across the freeway.

So, there are separate turn-offs from the PCT depending on which way you want to hitch.  Also, it's surprisingly far between the rest areas by trail (about a half-mile if I recall), even though they're right across the freeway from one another.

Lots of people want to hitch west, and take the first turn off ("first" 
being the more southerly one) to the rest stop, but the first one goes to the eastbound rest stop.  So lots of people go the wrong way.  If I recall, the sign at the first junction is unclear about which rest stop it goes to.

Also confusing, if you're going to the eastbound rest stop:  There are several junctions after you've left the PCT, and you can get to either the I-80 rest stop or a less-used trailhead parking lot that's not on the freeway (Google Maps calls it the "Donner Summit California State Snopark", on Bunny Hill Drive).

In short, if you're trying to head west on I-80, go under the freeway before you exit the PCT.  If you're trying to head east, take the earlier turn-off, and take the first right turn after that.

  

From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 15 09:17:20 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 14:17:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Pogo pack!?
References: <622925294.10581198.1497536240627.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <622925294.10581198.1497536240627@mail.yahoo.com>

Can't comment on the pack, but I like the view of Weaver's Needle.
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 6/9/17,  <gwynpen at googlemail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [pct-l] Pogo pack!?
 To: "pct-l @backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
 Date: Friday, June 9, 2017, 9:40 PM
 
 Did you see this?
 
 https://asunow.asu.edu/20170414-solutions-pogo-pack-asu-innovator-creates-wearable-trail-tech-%E2%80%94-and-we-put-it-test
 
 
 cheers
 
 gwynpen
 _______________________________________________
 Pct-L mailing list
 Pct-L at backcountry.net
 To unsubscribe, or change options
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 http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
 
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 respective authors.
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 express permission.
 

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 10:19:48 2017
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:19:48 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <AB3C8E55-8494-4E70-B564-516DB5BF49D7@gmail.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
 <AB3C8E55-8494-4E70-B564-516DB5BF49D7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A415478-C2B1-4FB7-B9CE-DAB6C6D2B9C3@gmail.com>

CEREAL
ICE COLD MILK
CRUNCH BERRIES

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 15, 2017, at 8:44 AM, Zog7140 at gmail.com <zog7140 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Two additional possible set up locations: Barker Pass (via surface streets on west side of Lake Tahoe or Highway 40 at Truckee
> One additional food consideration: cereal with cream or milk. 
> 
> 
> God Bless America! 
> 
>> On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Marcus Schwartz <pctl at marcusschwartz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi PCT-L,
>> 
>> I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I hiked
>> the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I received, so I
>> wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail magic myself.
>> I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other
>> amenities to the hikers who pass by.
>> 
>> I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
>> Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be in
>> the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, two
>> weeks later.
>> 
>> I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
>> angeling:
>> 
>> - Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the
>> pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?
>> 
>> - Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that
>> section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th
>> last year, for example.
>> 
>> - Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and will
>> have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest Area?
>> Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south of
>> Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).
>> 
>> - Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected
>> things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things hikers
>> needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they didn't need,
>> etc.
>> 
>> - Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?
>> 
>> I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has
>> long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
>> Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of them
>> of course.  Any suggestions/comments?
>> 
>> Edible:
>> - Clean water
>> - Beer, especially heavy beer
>> - Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
>> - Hot non-instant coffee
>> - Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
>> - Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
>> - Home-made chocolate chip cookies
>> - Meat of some kind that's not jerky
>> 
>> Non-Edible:
>> - Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic station
>> - Charging station
>> - A garbage can
>> - Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and
>> disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets,
>> ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove fuel,
>> duck tape...
>> - If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail
>> intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half a
>> mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).
>> 
>> Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail
>> magicians out there...
>> 
>> -=Town Food
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From zog7140 at gmail.com  Thu Jun 15 11:28:01 2017
From: zog7140 at gmail.com (Zog7140@gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 09:28:01 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <4b77fe2b576e4a9daf4ff988ec0e0b34@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
 <CAKeeMLfayMG-bGTR9y763UhSHTdVOy4YOGNCG6SaHcF7tsZbUA@mail.gmail.com>
 <348ad5e3-7978-46ea-7d49-0b22bad98b02@marcusschwartz.com>
 <4b77fe2b576e4a9daf4ff988ec0e0b34@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <DF05475E-16A7-44DA-860B-E1BBAF3CA2AD@gmail.com>

I have left my truck at the I-80 westbound rest stop for a few days before. Not certain it was legal but didn't see any sign and didn't get any hassle. PCT is only a few yards away. And they have indoor plumbing. 

God Bless America! 

> On Jun 15, 2017, at 7:06 AM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:
> 
> For Section hikers--I intended to leave my car at the Donner Summit California Snopark referenced below. When I arrived I founds signs indicating I needed a parking pass to leave a vehicle there--which created a logistics issue since I was there pre-dawn and had to catch transportation to Chester for my hike back to Donner Summit. Permits can be acquired in sporting shops in Truckee.
> 
> Note that there is long-term parking available for free at the Amtrak station in Truckee. One can hitch or take a cab to the Donner trailhead from there, maybe 8-10 miles.
> 
> Herb
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Marcus Schwartz
> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 11:44 PM
> To: Melanie Clarke
> Cc: PCT MailingList
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
> 
> It's hard to explain the junction without a diagram, but the main point of confusion is that the Westbound and Eastbound rest areas on I-80 are not connected to each other.  You can't walk across the freeway.
> 
> So, there are separate turn-offs from the PCT depending on which way you want to hitch.  Also, it's surprisingly far between the rest areas by trail (about a half-mile if I recall), even though they're right across the freeway from one another.
> 
> Lots of people want to hitch west, and take the first turn off ("first" 
> being the more southerly one) to the rest stop, but the first one goes to the eastbound rest stop.  So lots of people go the wrong way.  If I recall, the sign at the first junction is unclear about which rest stop it goes to.
> 
> Also confusing, if you're going to the eastbound rest stop:  There are several junctions after you've left the PCT, and you can get to either the I-80 rest stop or a less-used trailhead parking lot that's not on the freeway (Google Maps calls it the "Donner Summit California State Snopark", on Bunny Hill Drive).
> 
> In short, if you're trying to head west on I-80, go under the freeway before you exit the PCT.  If you're trying to head east, take the earlier turn-off, and take the first right turn after that.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Thu Jun 15 11:48:20 2017
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:48:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
References: <2030802124.13246110.1497545300291.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2030802124.13246110.1497545300291@mail.yahoo.com>

"Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail magicians out there..."

Yep, I have another idea Town Food.? 

https://www.pcta.org/volunteer/project-schedule/

I bet you sure appreciated having clear trail to hike far more than a one off touch of grub.? Especially if you experienced the awful blow down conditions in southern Oregon, or every had to wade through brush on a cool, dewey morning (the "carwash" effect).? Stuff like that happens for want of a few more volunteers......
The best part of trail crew as magic, IMO, is that it's not some temporary, fleeting gift to but a few hikers.? It is a gift to every hiker that passes that way for years to come.? A section of brushy trail I cleared in 2010 is still clear to this day, benefiting every single day, section and thru hiker that has passed that way since, including you.....

There are chapters up and down the trail.? Find one.? Join them.https://www.pcta.org/volunteer/regional-groups/

I'll be heading up to do some magic up on Glacier Peak in a bit.? Folks will get blow down and brush free trail for 5 miles.........






From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Thu Jun 15 12:58:06 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 10:58:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice
In-Reply-To: <AB3C8E55-8494-4E70-B564-516DB5BF49D7@gmail.com>
References: <d71a33e6-1ce6-dcc8-0d31-342aaac82f33@marcusschwartz.com>
 <AB3C8E55-8494-4E70-B564-516DB5BF49D7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000e01d2e600$f440ed90$dcc2c8b0$@verizon.net>

I agree that Barker Pass would be a good location.  Since you will be
staying in Tahoe City it would be close by.  The road is paved except for
the last quarter mile or so and is no problem for a two drive car.  There is
a trail head there with parking.  Plus at the end of the day if any hiker
needs to come down off the trail you would be able to give them a ride from
a place that otherwise would be hard to snare a ride. 

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
zog7140 at gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 6:44 AM
To: Marcus Schwartz <pctl at marcusschwartz.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Magic Advice

Two additional possible set up locations: Barker Pass (via surface streets
on west side of Lake Tahoe or Highway 40 at Truckee One additional food
consideration: cereal with cream or milk. 


God Bless America! 

> On Jun 14, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Marcus Schwartz <pctl at marcusschwartz.com>
wrote:
> 
> Hi PCT-L,
> 
> I'm going to be in Lake Tahoe around July 15-23 this year. When I 
> hiked the PCT last year, I really appreciated the trail magic I 
> received, so I wanted to take the opportunity to try making some trail
magic myself.
> I'd like to set up a trailside kiosk and provide food and other 
> amenities to the hikers who pass by.
> 
> I hit Tahoe July 6 on my hike, and I was around the middle of the pack.
> Since snow is heavier this year, I'm thinking a lot of hikers will be 
> in the area during the week that I'll be there on vacation this year, 
> two weeks later.
> 
> I'd appreciate advice from the PCT-L about the logistics of trail
> angeling:
> 
> - Am I guessing right that July 15-23 will be around the middle of the 
> pack this year? Or will snow have people trapped further south?
> 
> - Will I be conflicting with anybody else doing trail magic on that 
> section at that time? I remember Coppertone was there around July 4th 
> last year, for example.
> 
> - Where exactly should I set up? I'll be staying in Tahoe City and 
> will have access to a car (2WD sedan). Maybe the I-80 Donner Pass Rest
Area?
> Or maybe the parking lot of the Adventure Mountain resort, just south 
> of Highway 50? (Coppertone was there last year).
> 
> - Can any of you who have done trail magic tell me about unexpected 
> things I might not have thought of? E.g. items you forgot, things 
> hikers needed that you didn't have, things you brought that they 
> didn't need, etc.
> 
> - Do I need to be prepared for hiker misbehavior?  If so, what kinds?
> 
> I'm also trying to think of what I could provide. My hiker hunger has 
> long since left me, so it's getting hard to remember what I craved...
> Here's what I've thought of so far, I don't think I could do all of 
> them of course.  Any suggestions/comments?
> 
> Edible:
> - Clean water
> - Beer, especially heavy beer
> - Soda, I remember craving orange soda in particular
> - Hot non-instant coffee
> - Iced drinks. Margaritas maybe?
> - Fresh fruit, especially big juicy Fuji apples
> - Home-made chocolate chip cookies
> - Meat of some kind that's not jerky
> 
> Non-Edible:
> - Have a friend shuttle people between town and the trail magic 
> station
> - Charging station
> - A garbage can
> - Hiker box, pre-stocked with some of my overstocked gear, and 
> disposable or hard-to-find cheap items, such as: Mayonnaise packets, 
> ziploc bags, trash-compactor bags, toilet paper, bug spray, stove 
> fuel, duck tape...
> - If I set up at highway 80, post a sign at the confusing trail 
> intersection (lots of people don't realize that you have to hike half 
> a mile further if you're going westbound on the freeway).
> 
> Any more ideas?  I'd appreciate any advice from the experienced trail 
> magicians out there...
> 
> -=Town Food
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From susan at newstories.org  Fri Jun 16 13:27:51 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:27:51 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
Message-ID: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>

First of all, because of the PCT-L, we actually received two very kind offers to shuttle us from Old Station to Belden!  Thanks, Lady Pegasus! (and thanks also to James).

Anyone have any advice on bear canisters?  Lassen NP is requiring them now and we?re taking a zero day by Drakesbad, so we will be camping at Warner Valley CG. I?m kinda bummed that we have to carry the canister for 90 miles, just because of one problem bear last year by Twin Lakes.

?Susan from Spokane

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Fri Jun 16 15:59:11 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 13:59:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
In-Reply-To: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
Message-ID: <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>

The bear canister requirement in Lassen is only if you camp in the backcountry.  Camping at Warner Valley campground is not backcountry.  So if you can hike the approximately 16 miles from Warner Valley campground to the northern boundary of the park in one day, you don't need a canister.  When there is no snow this is easy.  Current snow conditions may slow you down though.  You can rent canisters from the two park visitor centers, but neither are close to the trail.  If you have a canister you could ship it to Chester and pick it up there and then ship it home from Old Station.  Hitching into Chester is usually no problem.

I-Beam

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:28 AM
To: pct-l at backcountry net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters

First of all, because of the PCT-L, we actually received two very kind offers to shuttle us from Old Station to Belden!  Thanks, Lady Pegasus! (and thanks also to James).

Anyone have any advice on bear canisters?  Lassen NP is requiring them now and we?re taking a zero day by Drakesbad, so we will be camping at Warner Valley CG. I?m kinda bummed that we have to carry the canister for 90 miles, just because of one problem bear last year by Twin Lakes.

?Susan from Spokane
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From susan at newstories.org  Fri Jun 16 16:24:12 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:24:12 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
In-Reply-To: <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
 <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>

Oh ? only for back country.  I misunderstood.  Hmmm?  I?ll think about snow and 16 miles and see what makes most sense.  Thanks much ? very helpful.

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> The bear canister requirement in Lassen is only if you camp in the backcountry.  Camping at Warner Valley campground is not backcountry.  So if you can hike the approximately 16 miles from Warner Valley campground to the northern boundary of the park in one day, you don't need a canister.  When there is no snow this is easy.  Current snow conditions may slow you down though.  You can rent canisters from the two park visitor centers, but neither are close to the trail.  If you have a canister you could ship it to Chester and pick it up there and then ship it home from Old Station.  Hitching into Chester is usually no problem.
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:28 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
> 
> First of all, because of the PCT-L, we actually received two very kind offers to shuttle us from Old Station to Belden!  Thanks, Lady Pegasus! (and thanks also to James).
> 
> Anyone have any advice on bear canisters?  Lassen NP is requiring them now and we?re taking a zero day by Drakesbad, so we will be camping at Warner Valley CG. I?m kinda bummed that we have to carry the canister for 90 miles, just because of one problem bear last year by Twin Lakes.
> 
> ?Susan from Spokane
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com  Fri Jun 16 17:41:58 2017
From: laurie_h1234 at yahoo.com (Laurie Hallum)
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 22:41:58 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
In-Reply-To: <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
 <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>
 <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
Message-ID: <1492274477.11838784.1497652918040@mail.yahoo.com>

Here's an option if you choose to use the bear canister. ?If they will hold it for you, we could drop off a bear?canister w/ or wo/ extra supplies at Drakesbad. ?It isn't very far from the road we will be traversing and probably won't take more than 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour. ?The Lassen Park entrance is much farther. ?If you pick up the bear canister at Drakesbad, you wouldn't need to carry it too many days until arriving at Old Station.Lady Pegasus? 

    On Friday, June 16, 2017 2:24 PM, Susan Virnig <susan at newstories.org> wrote:
 

 Oh ? only for back country.? I misunderstood.? Hmmm?? I?ll think about snow and 16 miles and see what makes most sense.? Thanks much ? very helpful.

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> The bear canister requirement in Lassen is only if you camp in the backcountry.? Camping at Warner Valley campground is not backcountry.? So if you can hike the approximately 16 miles from Warner Valley campground to the northern boundary of the park in one day, you don't need a canister.? When there is no snow this is easy.? Current snow conditions may slow you down though.? You can rent canisters from the two park visitor centers, but neither are close to the trail.? If you have a canister you could ship it to Chester and pick it up there and then ship it home from Old Station.? Hitching into Chester is usually no problem.
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:28 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
> 
> First of all, because of the PCT-L, we actually received two very kind offers to shuttle us from Old Station to Belden!? Thanks, Lady Pegasus! (and thanks also to James).
> 
> Anyone have any advice on bear canisters?? Lassen NP is requiring them now and we?re taking a zero day by Drakesbad, so we will be camping at Warner Valley CG. I?m kinda bummed that we have to carry the canister for 90 miles, just because of one problem bear last year by Twin Lakes.
> 
> ?Susan from Spokane
> _______________________________________________
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

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From susan at newstories.org  Mon Jun 19 02:31:16 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Bill Frenette groundpounderbill22@verizon.net PCTSection)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 15:31:16 +0800
Subject: [pct-l] =?utf-8?q?=E2=9C=94oh_wow=2C_I=27m_impressed!?=
Message-ID: <1260028520.20170619093116@newstories.org>

Hey! 

I've just found something really nice and impressive, please take a look, you're going to love  that  http://bit.do/dwN52

In haste, Bill Frenette groundpounderbill22 at verizon.net PCTSection


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 00:21:21 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 22:21:21 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] PCT hiker sighting in Yose
In-Reply-To: <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
 <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>
 <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
Message-ID: <C0340743-C4D1-4850-88F6-9672FDBFA7F2@gmail.com>

Just a quick-shout out that I ran into Wildcard and Loop as they were opening their resupply boxes in front of the Post Office in Yosemite Valley today. They plan to skip the next ~200 Miles and come back later in the year.

..and yes, Yosemite is as amazing as ever. Some pictures below. One with a shot of the high sierra showing the snow line taken from Half Dome.

Section Hiker Rick


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mrzhfimoi9zpprc/AABAhATFeeu2PTD4sK945_T9a?dl=0

From jbruins at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 01:21:51 2017
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 23:21:51 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] PCT hiker sighting in Yose
In-Reply-To: <C0340743-C4D1-4850-88F6-9672FDBFA7F2@gmail.com>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
 <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>
 <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
 <C0340743-C4D1-4850-88F6-9672FDBFA7F2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <84EBBD57-0779-4636-BA1E-D0B496DACC27@gmail.com>

Thanks for sharing. On a tangential note, how did you achieve that peak labeling overlay?

Armstrong

> On Jun 19, 2017, at 10:21 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Just a quick-shout out that I ran into Wildcard and Loop as they were opening their resupply boxes in front of the Post Office in Yosemite Valley today. They plan to skip the next ~200 Miles and come back later in the year.
> 
> ..and yes, Yosemite is as amazing as ever. Some pictures below. One with a shot of the high sierra showing the snow line taken from Half Dome.
> 
> Section Hiker Rick
> 
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mrzhfimoi9zpprc/AABAhATFeeu2PTD4sK945_T9a?dl=0
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Tue Jun 20 10:56:02 2017
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 08:56:02 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Be careful out there......
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkFHYUkpqzNErvXMCU2VhjT=rZ-m9H32VocPaZtBM5QAQ@mail.gmail.com>

In a heavy snow year, even late season avalanches are possible. Not
the PCT, but still amazing

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/mountaineers-capture-avalanche-close-canadas-184540754.html

From alexkess64 at hotmail.com  Sat Jun 17 15:56:33 2017
From: alexkess64 at hotmail.com (Alex Kessell)
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2017 20:56:33 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
In-Reply-To: <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
 <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>,
 <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
Message-ID: <BL2PR15MB09157DD08B251B631D6CA6C4D3C60@BL2PR15MB0915.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

I just hiked through this section yesterday. There is currently about 5 miles of reasonable snow coverage in that section. I did 20 miles that day through the NP without any trouble. I would recommend not taking a bear canister.

AK



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Susan Virnig <susan at newstories.org>
Date: 16/6/17 2:24 pm (GMT-08:00)
To: Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
Cc: "pct-l at backcountry net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear canisters

Oh ? only for back country.  I misunderstood.  Hmmm?  I?ll think about snow and 16 miles and see what makes most sense.  Thanks much ? very helpful.

> On Jun 16, 2017, at 1:59 PM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> The bear canister requirement in Lassen is only if you camp in the backcountry.  Camping at Warner Valley campground is not backcountry.  So if you can hike the approximately 16 miles from Warner Valley campground to the northern boundary of the park in one day, you don't need a canister.  When there is no snow this is easy.  Current snow conditions may slow you down though.  You can rent canisters from the two park visitor centers, but neither are close to the trail.  If you have a canister you could ship it to Chester and pick it up there and then ship it home from Old Station.  Hitching into Chester is usually no problem.
>
> I-Beam
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Susan Virnig
> Sent: Friday, June 16, 2017 11:28 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry net <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] bear canisters
>
> First of all, because of the PCT-L, we actually received two very kind offers to shuttle us from Old Station to Belden!  Thanks, Lady Pegasus! (and thanks also to James).
>
> Anyone have any advice on bear canisters?  Lassen NP is requiring them now and we?re taking a zero day by Drakesbad, so we will be camping at Warner Valley CG. I?m kinda bummed that we have to carry the canister for 90 miles, just because of one problem bear last year by Twin Lakes.
>
> ?Susan from Spokane
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

_______________________________________________
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Tue Jun 20 15:05:25 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2017 13:05:25 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] PCT hiker sighting in Yose
In-Reply-To: <84EBBD57-0779-4636-BA1E-D0B496DACC27@gmail.com>
References: <44159E3E-46E9-4D09-A034-B2831DA23FA2@newstories.org>
 <000001d2e6e3$68efdb00$3acf9100$@verizon.net>
 <904EF607-38CA-4C00-A4AD-47C53DAF7019@newstories.org>
 <C0340743-C4D1-4850-88F6-9672FDBFA7F2@gmail.com>
 <84EBBD57-0779-4636-BA1E-D0B496DACC27@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <25AA9E0D-1451-498A-96BA-0CA5830682E5@gmail.com>

it?s a free iOS App: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/peaks-usa/id906508856?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo%3D4 <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/peaks-usa/id906508856?mt=8&ign-mpt=uo=4>

Note that it shows approximate information only, you kind of have to move the overlay info around to match the labels to the peaks.

Rick


> On Jun 19, 2017, at 11:21 PM, Jay Bruins <jbruins at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for sharing. On a tangential note, how did you achieve that peak labeling overlay?
> 
> Armstrong
> 
>> On Jun 19, 2017, at 10:21 PM, NoBo Hiker <nobohiker at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just a quick-shout out that I ran into Wildcard and Loop as they were opening their resupply boxes in front of the Post Office in Yosemite Valley today. They plan to skip the next ~200 Miles and come back later in the year.
>> 
>> ..and yes, Yosemite is as amazing as ever. Some pictures below. One with a shot of the high sierra showing the snow line taken from Half Dome.
>> 
>> Section Hiker Rick
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mrzhfimoi9zpprc/AABAhATFeeu2PTD4sK945_T9a?dl=0
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From danieljpierson at gmail.com  Sat Jun 24 10:01:51 2017
From: danieljpierson at gmail.com (Dan Pierson)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 08:01:51 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Seeking Partner for Washington PCT Starting Late July /
 August
Message-ID: <CAPMaXMdYHV5WsEWaekBAR-QQQ+JpHg_vbH=HVh9Q7ADkEhOXhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone,
Is anyone interested in doing the Washington PCT starting in late July?
I'm 34 years old and live in Portland, OR, where I'm transitioning out of
my job in health care management ... and I'd like to start life's next
chapter by backpacking across the beautiful Washington PCT. :)
I'm a beginner-intermediate and will be taking REI's wilderness first aid
course in the coming weeks along with researching the route, getting
gear,and meeting up with folks who've previously done it. I'm in good
shape, laid back, and appreciate a good sense of humor.
Please let me know if you're interested in doing all/some of the Washington
PCT, might know someone who is, and/or if you have advice on how to
approach this trek - thank you!
Best,
Dan

From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Sat Jun 24 17:14:08 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2017 15:14:08 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Section Hike Report
Message-ID: <000701d2ed37$34379dd0$9ca6d970$@verizon.net>

I just got back from a little 65 mile section hike in Southern Oregon.  I
hiked from mile 1705.7 (Grouse Gap Shelter, which is a few miles south of
Mt. Ashland) to mile 1770.9 (Fish Lake/Highway 140) from June 18th to the
22nd.  It was a long way to go (from Southern California)  to hike just 65
miles, but it is the only part of the trail I have not done that is not
covered with snow and I was itching to take a hike.

 

There were snow fields across the trail south of mile 1705.7.   The Mt.
Ashland road (Road #20) has a locked gate where the pavement ends at the end
of the parking lot for the ski area.  From 1705.7 north to mile 1770.9 there
was no snow on the trail.  This was a very easy and beautiful hike.  The
elevation gains are very gentle and water was no problem.  I sent a report
to the PCT water report.  I saw a few through hikers, but not that many.  As
always this time of year, there are a lot of trees across the trail because
the trail crews have not had time to clear them.  However, in this 65 mile
stretch only two trees were not an easy step over or around.  Between miles
1763 and 1764 there are two huge trees across the trail.  One I climbed
under the other I climbed over, not that big of a deal for a hiker.  But
because they are located where the trail goes through one of those huge
volcanic bolder fields, there is no way a horse could get around them.  So
equestrians beware!  The mosquitos were not bad at all until about mile
1759, north of that they get pretty bad.

 

I-Beam


From gary_schenk at yahoo.com  Mon Jun 26 08:35:49 2017
From: gary_schenk at yahoo.com (Gary Schenk)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 13:35:49 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] G*d D***n PCTers
References: <1775201182.2627830.1498484149572.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1775201182.2627830.1498484149572@mail.yahoo.com>

Pack out your TP. And bury your turds. And bury them off trail!

Gary

From nobohiker at gmail.com  Mon Jun 26 22:48:48 2017
From: nobohiker at gmail.com (NoBo Hiker)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 20:48:48 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Section G, H, I or J?
In-Reply-To: <CF9CFB0D-8C2F-4A7F-8751-D16DC8F72499@icloud.com>
References: <6912af407bed5ed85a2935d12f2e27740c7c7db0@webmail.marcusschwartz.com>
 <CF9CFB0D-8C2F-4A7F-8751-D16DC8F72499@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <4A2AA293-7665-429A-B4DE-71371A519496@gmail.com>

Hi PCT-L,

I have a 5 day weekend coming up and was planning on hiking section G, but the temperature forecast isn?t really motivating so I am rather thinking of switching to section I or J or possible doing parts of H again - it is an epic snow year after all. Thoughts or comments? I have 3 days to decide ;-)

Cheers,
Section Hiker Rick

PS: Tioga is expected to be open starting Saturday



From jalan04 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 27 14:29:55 2017
From: jalan04 at gmail.com (Will M)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:29:55 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] NYtimes article on trail cooking
Message-ID: <CAMXKz-fcbGnC=JoAzx37CJR1-p48h9R4V9DNPDUF=kyF=bwZwQ@mail.gmail.com>

I thought some folks might be interested in this article about camp and
backpacking cooking:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/dining/camping-food-cooking-technology.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue Jun 27 17:34:15 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:34:15 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] SEKI news release re: creeks & snow
Message-ID: <04a701d2ef95$824d8650$86e892f0$@mountaineducation.org>

This is an excerpt from a press release today: 

 

River Safety
This year's heavy snow pack and warming temperatures have resulted in
extremely dangerous river conditions.  There have been three river related
fatalities in 2017.  The cold, swift, and dangerous Kaweah River and South
Fork of the Kings River is posing a greater risk to public safety than in
recent years.  The park urges visitors to enjoy areas of the park that are
away from the river.  Getting in the river or going near it could create a
life or death situation.


Snow melt is causing creeks and rivers to rise.  It's possible to cross a
creek during periods when the water is running lower, and find the same
creek impossible to cross within the same day, causing visitors to become
stranded overnight. If you have any doubt about your ability to safely cross
a creek or river you are urged to turn around.  Even the best swimmers can
find themselves in a difficult situation under the current water conditions.

Wilderness Travel
The bridge at South Fork Kings River in Upper Paradise Valley along the
Woods Creek Trail was severely damaged over the winter and has fallen into
the water.  There are no other developed crossings in the area and visitors
who intended to use the bridge should adjust their plans.

The snow pack in the Sierra is still significant, with more than ten feet of
snow still on the ground at the higher elevations.  Snow levels are patchy
around 9,000 feet and continuous at 10,000 feet.  This means the high
mountain passes including those along the John Muir Trail and Pacific Crest
Trail may be difficult, treacherous, or impassable. 

 

Warmer temperatures are causing snow to melt and creeks are running under
what appears to be stable snow, creating snow bridges.  There is a danger of
falling several feet through a snow bridge into rushing water.  Wilderness
users are urged to use extreme caution.  "Streams and creeks are continuing
to rise and visitors should take care when attempting undeveloped stream
crossings," said Wilderness Assistant Pablo Garzon.

 

Play safe and Stay Found!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 28 03:26:14 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:26:14 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Appreciation
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246AB113DDFA8D7A69F0DB1C8DD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you to all the class of 2017 that are posting their hikes on line. 
As someone who is in an "off-trail" "blinders /horse collar on" work year--I appreciate the stories and trail connection your writing gives to me. Having already read most of the hiking /trail books known to humans ,I'm always looking for more accounts of someone's long hike somewhere. 
Stay safe --see you out there next year. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed Jun 28 12:53:33 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 17:53:33 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Appreciation
In-Reply-To: <BY2PR20MB0246353D20CF27CD033B4564C8DD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
References: <BY2PR20MB0246AB113DDFA8D7A69F0DB1C8DD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>,
 <CY4PR1401MB20706C8648DDF06C59515C8EF7DD0@CY4PR1401MB2070.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>,
 <BY2PR20MB0246353D20CF27CD033B4564C8DD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246C7592A78A3AA532CDF14C8DD0@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>



Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com<mailto:marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>>
Date: June 28, 2017 at 6:51:06 PM GMT+1
To: Richard Sturm <r-sturm at msn.com<mailto:r-sturm at msn.com>>
Subject: Re: Appreciation

Hi
It's not Mr Marmot. Just Marmot. He is someone else. Look on the PCT website. It's called the Journalist. I just read them randomly and figured out who I found to be interesting.
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 28, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Richard Sturm <r-sturm at msn.com<mailto:r-sturm at msn.com>> wrote:


Dear Mr. Marmot,


Who are the hikers in question?


Could you possibly send out to the group the links to a few of the best of these posts so that we can all appreciate them?  I have no idea where to look.


Thanks,


R. Sturm

---------------------
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>> on behalf of marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com<mailto:marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:26 AM
To: pct-l @backcountry.net<http://backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Appreciation

Thank you to all the class of 2017 that are posting their hikes on line.
As someone who is in an "off-trail" "blinders /horse collar on" work year--I appreciate the stories and trail connection your writing gives to me. Having already read most of the hiking /trail books known to humans ,I'm always looking for more accounts of someone's long hike somewhere.
Stay safe --see you out there next year.
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
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From xxlaozboi316xx at yahoo.com  Wed Jun 28 00:35:28 2017
From: xxlaozboi316xx at yahoo.com (Allen S)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 00:35:28 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] 2018 thru hike planning
Message-ID: <11840F20-3A57-49AB-B798-E1C9A245D15D@yahoo.com>

Hey everyone. Long time lurker, I've done a bit of researching for a thru hike. I was planning on doing it this year, but I wavered since I didn't have the gear, the weather conditions, and because of myself as well. So I'm pretty set on doing a 2018 thru hike. As for as nobo or sobo. That's still up in the air as well. Because I might do some visiting to some friends either before or after or even during the hike (San Diego, Bay Area, and maybe some parts around Canada). I was in a huge accident a year and half ago, was a hairline from being paralyzed, fractured my spine, bunch of ribs, and some broken bones elsewhere.


Anyhow I'm just looking around for gear and wondering what I'm missing from the guides from fellow hikers and websites and such. What to buy new, what to buy used etc. I don't own any of my camping gear anymore so I pretty much have to start anew. Also I might be one of the few that have to plan and mail out meals on my own. Not sure if I'll have anyone that I can call to help for mail packages or not. So I need to plan that one out. 

Anyway, thanks! 

Tl;dr 
What should I buy new. What should I buy used? 
What are some tips for those that are mailing care packages to themselves without the help of anyone else. 



From susan at newstories.org  Wed Jun 28 14:15:23 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 12:15:23 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Section N info
Message-ID: <9F230FE4-79F5-4576-96AB-6734AF1ACCBB@newstories.org>

A week ago a friend and I headed north out of Belden.  Below is part of a thank you note I sent to Lady Pegasus who helped us shuttle our car.  By now, the trail might have gotten quite a bit easier, but wanted to pass on this information.
###

"Erring on the side of caution, Marge and I turned back at Frog Mountain, only 13.5 miles in.  Deep and swift fords were ok.  A dozen or more tricky stream crossings on logs and stones were ok.  The 95 degree heat was ok.  Lots of snow, with navigation challenges, and eventually finding the trail again numerous times was ok.    What finally turned us back was the steep snowy north slope of 7100 foot Frog Mountain, with a run out that contained large trees and rocks, with more snowy downhill below that? The thru-hikers that had micro-spikes did it all with no difficulty.  (We had none.)  Some thru hikers did it without micro-spikes.  We met one who turned back like us ? ?I don?t need a broken leg,? he told us as he caught up with us heading back down to Belden.?

###

We skipped up to Drakesbad and hiked north to our car at Old Station.  Still snow up above 6300 feet in Lassen, and one impossible stream crossing ? but luckily there was a great log crossing a couple minutes hike upstream ? though this was nothing compared to the snow up out of Belden.

--Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)

From susan at newstories.org  Wed Jun 28 14:39:35 2017
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 12:39:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] damage at Hat Creek RV resort
Message-ID: <6810D9E0-CF56-436E-9F4D-9BE00D66789A@newstories.org>

Dear All,

The folks at Hat Creek RV resort kindly let us park our car there with no charge while we hiked up from Belden, BUT when we returned I got an earful from the resort manager, Joyce. I was saddened to hear what had happened to them, cuz it gives all PCT hikers a bad name, but I promised her I would post what she told me, and let her know if anyone stepped up to admit causing the damage.  She very much appreciated my listening to her and doing what I could to help.

On Father?s Day, June 18, a woman was driving back in the RV part of the resort looking for some PCT hikers she was picking up.  According to witnesses, the hikers saw her and hollered at her, she looked their way, not down at the road and ran over a green covered box in the ground that contained a bunch of pipes and valves that supplied water to the back half of the resort, including cabins and campsites.  Not sure if she stopped on top of the box or just continued forward over the box.   Don?t know if she knew the damage she caused, but the hikers climbed in and she drove away.  The pipes and valves were all broken from the weight of her vehicle and that part of the resort was without water until they could get it all fixed.  Bummer.

If this sounds familiar to anyone, please contact Joyce at Hat Creek RV resort or let me know and I?ll contact her.  The resort folks have been very hiker-friendly, and they are planning ? in spite of this incident ? to put up a white awning and picnic table for hikers to sort their boxes.  (They are right next to the Hat Creek Post Office.)  So, on behalf of all of us who have benefitted from their kindness, I hope something can be done about this.

?Sunshine (Susan from Spokane)





From JimLBanks at verizon.net  Thu Jun 29 13:31:57 2017
From: JimLBanks at verizon.net (Jim Banks)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 11:31:57 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] FW: Snow conditions on PCT
In-Reply-To: <23776975.20434.1498702811284@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <23776975.20434.1498702811284@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000201d2f105$fed1d2a0$fc7577e0$@verizon.net>

Forwarding, with permission, a post about snow conditions around Mt. Hood and Timberline Lodge.

 

I-Beam

 

From: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net [mailto:ambery-80243 at mypacks.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:20 PM
To: Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Snow conditions on PCT

 

I just went out to Timberline Lodge on Monday.  You can see the PCT behind the lodge for about 300 yards.......  :)
I went west for about a mile, and was on five feet of snow for most of it.  To the east of the lodge, all the ridges are bare, but there is snow in the gullies. I don't know about farther south, but conditions between Timothy Lake and the lodge are fine.  Lolo Pass to the gorge is also snow free now.  It's just the west side of Mt Hood that will be another two or three weeks before it's comfortable for most hikers.  We had considerable melting last week due to the heat wave we had, so crossings of the Muddy Fork and the Sandy River are pretty high as well.

Amber

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim Banks 
Sent: Jun 27, 2017 4:07 PM 
To: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net <mailto:ambery-80243 at mypacks.net>  
Subject: Snow conditions on PCT 




Amber, you posted an email to the PCT list serve on June 1 warning that there was still lots of snow around Timberline Lodge.  Could you give us an update on the snow conditions around there?

 

Thanks,

I-Beam


From geraldbking at gmail.com  Thu Jun 29 17:32:54 2017
From: geraldbking at gmail.com (Jerry's gmail)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2017 15:32:54 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] FW: Snow conditions on PCT
In-Reply-To: <000201d2f105$fed1d2a0$fc7577e0$@verizon.net>
References: <23776975.20434.1498702811284@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
 <000201d2f105$fed1d2a0$fc7577e0$@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <7E060CBD-D473-4180-91F3-4B49A20B390E@gmail.com>

Just a ditto to the Mt Hood PCT conditions. I was out on a SAR mission yesterday 6/28 for 3 SOBO near the Zigzag crossing, about 3 miles NW of Timberline Lodge. They were unable to cross the steep snow covered cross slopes and had lost the buried trail. Their skill levels/experience levels were very low; others have made it through. 10 more days will make a major difference.
Jerry
PNWSAR

> On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> Forwarding, with permission, a post about snow conditions around Mt. Hood and Timberline Lodge.
> 
> 
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> 
> 
> From: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net [mailto:ambery-80243 at mypacks.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2017 7:20 PM
> To: Jim Banks <JimLBanks at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: Snow conditions on PCT
> 
> 
> 
> I just went out to Timberline Lodge on Monday.  You can see the PCT behind the lodge for about 300 yards.......  :)
> I went west for about a mile, and was on five feet of snow for most of it.  To the east of the lodge, all the ridges are bare, but there is snow in the gullies. I don't know about farther south, but conditions between Timothy Lake and the lodge are fine.  Lolo Pass to the gorge is also snow free now.  It's just the west side of Mt Hood that will be another two or three weeks before it's comfortable for most hikers.  We had considerable melting last week due to the heat wave we had, so crossings of the Muddy Fork and the Sandy River are pretty high as well.
> 
> Amber
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jim Banks 
> Sent: Jun 27, 2017 4:07 PM 
> To: ambery-80243 at mypacks.net <mailto:ambery-80243 at mypacks.net>  
> Subject: Snow conditions on PCT 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amber, you posted an email to the PCT list serve on June 1 warning that there was still lots of snow around Timberline Lodge.  Could you give us an update on the snow conditions around there?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> I-Beam
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
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> 
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 30 02:15:47 2017
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 07:15:47 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Gathering
Message-ID: <BY2PR20MB0246F422285A0B7D89C3E18FC8D30@BY2PR20MB0246.namprd20.prod.outlook.com>

For the first year ever the ALDHA-west Gathering is in Colorado. Registration is open. Special deal to those members who register early. Think about hiking into the Gathering this year on the CDT. Grand Lake to Keystone is a nice little piece of the trail (seems like an easy bus from Denver)or north from Twin Lakes. Hitch up from Leadville ,I believe. 
Also PCT days coming up. Volunteers needed Fun and trail connection.  Check out the website. ALDHAwest.org 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Jun 30 12:26:38 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:26:38 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rush Creek closure for JMT/PCT hikers
Message-ID: <113f01d2f1c6$08338b20$189aa160$@mountaineducation.org>

Here's another trail closure that will affect JMT and PCT hikers this
season:

 

"The Inyo National Forest, through a forest order, is closing segments of
the Rush Creek Trail for public safety from June 30, 2017 through September
1, 2017. 

The wet winter of 2016-2017, with more than 180% of average annual
precipitation and close to 200% of average runoff forecast, has exacerbated
safety concerns for dams within the Rush Creek Hydroelectric System (RCHS)
on the Inyo National Forest. The extreme water year means water levels will
likely exceed seismic safety ratings for a period of more than 25 days in
Waugh Reservoir. The RCHS is currently operated by Southern California
Edison under a license with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. 

The forest order prohibits:
. Being within 800 feet of Rush Creek, from its intersection with the Waugh
Lake Dam, then east to its intersection with Gem Lake, as shown on the
attached map. 36 CFR 261.53(e).
. Being on the National Forest System trails listed below and shown on the
attached map.  
  -Rush Creek Trail from a point 750 feet north of its intersection with
Clark Lakes Trail, then west to a      point 528 feet west of its
intersection with Weber Lake Trail.
  - Clark Lakes Trail from its intersection with Rush Creek trail, then
south 1600 feet. 
  - Spooky Meadows Trail from its intersection with Rush Creek Trail, then
south to its intersection with the Ansel Adams Wilderness Boundary below
Spooky Meadow.
  -  Weber Lake Trail from its intersection with Rush Creek Trail, then
south 1500 feet. 

This closure affects access to popular destinations such as Thousand Island
Lake, the John Muir Trail, and the Pacific Crest Trail. 

Visitors who hold a wilderness permit reservation made prior to June 30th
for entry at the Rush Creek Trailhead should call the Wilderness Permit
Office at (760) 873-2483 to cancel their reservation or reserve an alternate
trailhead. The exception is for hikers (both day and overnight) whose
destination is Gem Lake or the Alger Lake Trail. 

Hikers, including PCT thru-hikers, cannot exit via the Rush Creek Trail and
need to make alternate plans for exit and resupply. " 

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Fri Jun 30 17:20:47 2017
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 15:20:47 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Rush Creek closure for JMT/PCT hikers
In-Reply-To: <F6F46C69-9C28-4509-ACDB-8A3726AA8CB9@yahoo.com>
References: <113f01d2f1c6$08338b20$189aa160$@mountaineducation.org>
 <F6F46C69-9C28-4509-ACDB-8A3726AA8CB9@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <125501d2f1ef$20248df0$606da9d0$@mountaineducation.org>

This closure affects parts of the Rush Creek Trail immediately east of the
JMT/PCT, therefore access to the JMT/PCT from the Waugh Lake, Webber Lake,
and Davis Lakes drainages.

This would affect PCT/JMT hikers if they wanted to avoid the Thousand Island
Lake and Island Pass route.

Junction is at PCT mile 926.


Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education, Inc.
ned at mountaineducation.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: jody boyles [mailto:jodyinjc at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 11:28 AM
To: ned at mountaineducation.org
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rush Creek closure for JMT/PCT hikers

What mile marker is this, Ned ?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 10:26 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org>
<ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:
> 
> Here's another trail closure that will affect JMT and PCT hikers this
> season:
> 
> 
> 
> "The Inyo National Forest, through a forest order, is closing segments 
> of the Rush Creek Trail for public safety from June 30, 2017 through 
> September 1, 2017.
> 
> The wet winter of 2016-2017, with more than 180% of average annual 
> precipitation and close to 200% of average runoff forecast, has 
> exacerbated safety concerns for dams within the Rush Creek 
> Hydroelectric System (RCHS) on the Inyo National Forest. The extreme 
> water year means water levels will likely exceed seismic safety 
> ratings for a period of more than 25 days in Waugh Reservoir. The RCHS 
> is currently operated by Southern California Edison under a license with
the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
> 
> The forest order prohibits:
> . Being within 800 feet of Rush Creek, from its intersection with the 
> Waugh Lake Dam, then east to its intersection with Gem Lake, as shown 
> on the attached map. 36 CFR 261.53(e).
> . Being on the National Forest System trails listed below and shown on 
> the attached map.
>  -Rush Creek Trail from a point 750 feet north of its intersection with
> Clark Lakes Trail, then west to a      point 528 feet west of its
> intersection with Weber Lake Trail.
>  - Clark Lakes Trail from its intersection with Rush Creek trail, then 
> south 1600 feet.
>  - Spooky Meadows Trail from its intersection with Rush Creek Trail, 
> then south to its intersection with the Ansel Adams Wilderness 
> Boundary below Spooky Meadow.
>  -  Weber Lake Trail from its intersection with Rush Creek Trail, then 
> south 1500 feet.
> 
> This closure affects access to popular destinations such as Thousand 
> Island Lake, the John Muir Trail, and the Pacific Crest Trail.
> 
> Visitors who hold a wilderness permit reservation made prior to June 
> 30th for entry at the Rush Creek Trailhead should call the Wilderness 
> Permit Office at (760) 873-2483 to cancel their reservation or reserve 
> an alternate trailhead. The exception is for hikers (both day and 
> overnight) whose destination is Gem Lake or the Alger Lake Trail.
> 
> Hikers, including PCT thru-hikers, cannot exit via the Rush Creek 
> Trail and need to make alternate plans for exit and resupply. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> 
> Mountain Education, Inc.
> 
> ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.